Matthias Nolte — Snow Dance.
What’s on your mind?
g’evening pups — how ya’ll doing tonight?
I’m watching a show on the Travel Channel, called “The Edge of America.” They are showing a 3 day pirate festival in Eastport, ME. I visited there three summers ago, and had my first lobster roll! Hey Suzanne!
hey ce — how’s cleveland tonight? i’m watching pbs’ life on fire — about life and volcanos
Hi Girls. I really enjoyed the info in the post about Richard III….. my, my how history intrigues me. While I suffer from political outrage fatigue, I am able to rally with the scientific, historical and sociological stuff that keeps being brought to the party. Life in its fullness.
hey dearie – i enjoyed reading it too…. i love the intersection of science and history
how’s the ‘nard tonight?
The ‘nard is good. My dear friend and I walk a couple of times a week, and we had a lovely walk this late afternoon….. chilly but nice.
You know that I do workers comp …. and I just have to say that you got the heck out of Dodge before things got crazy…. it’s pretty crazy now. I am appalled by how bad things have gotten for injured people. Insurance companies rule. Fuck ‘em.
Hey you two, I have been totally zeroed into the Richard III discovery. And the new PBS Shakespeare series.
and the horse they rode in on.
wed nites i watch nature then nova then this volcano series and then the reruns of the story of idean. i totally geek out
Hi Everyone. Things are great in SoCal. Request for some more ballet, Suz. This is wonderful, and as Dearie says, a great break from all of the politics.
…Life in its fullness… *heh* As Santayana warned… Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it…!
Aloha, Suz and lln pups…!
It’s interesting, that scoliosis stuff. I knew a woman who was just a tad too old to have benefitted from the newer treatments as a youth. She was truly hunched over. I cannot even imagine what her spine looked like. Amazing that Richard III functioned as fully as he did. It’s all so interesting…. and also kinda sad, if you get my drift. And we are all just human beings doing the best that we can………..and in 500 years, who will be looking for us under a parking lot.
hey loohoo — so glad you liked it.. i found the music very restful… and it was like i could hear the snow flakes fall
how was your day today?
Geeks rule. That’s why we love Rachel Maddow!
aloha tut — how’s paradise tonight?
i read something somewhere about how his spine was probably injuried as a teen — that he wasn’t that way as a child. wonder if their forensics will confirm that it was due to injury
I found that interesting. Can’t imagine what injury could have resulted in such curvature without rendering him somewhat unable…. and it appears he went into the last battle fully planning to defeat Henry Tudor.
is what i wanna know — what kinda injury could he have sustained that would have left his spine that damaged and yet he was able to go into battle and so those other manly man actions
We all have scoliosis to a certain extent. That’s why not everyone has a flat ass. Well, okay, fat too, but the spine can curve in either direction.
hey tuez — how ya doing tonight?
Wow — who knew?
I saw a recent PBS clip stating that the Anglican Priests had to cram his carcass into the too-small hole, dug under extreme duress, and covered in great haste…!
And also, remember, in medieval times, being overweight was a sign of wealth and some heavy people are inclined to grow humps. So his scoliosis may have been magnified by a fat pad. JMHO.
Wow. Got a link? I was an English major in college and took lots of English history, but I just never could remember dates and such…. never actually could get the ‘big picture’…. was great at grammar and writing, etc. and went on to be an English teacher in high school. I still want to be able to grasp the history….. maybe I’ll just always be history inept. “:)~
Wait, wait…..there wouldn’t have been any Anglican priests in the time of Richard III. Are you pimpin’ me????
I’m history inept too but I blame it on the revisionists. Can’t keep up with their shit and the truth.
Sorry, I don’t remember if it was PBS or the BBC, and what show it was…! But, I do remember that the conventional wisdom held that Richard’s body was tossed into the River…!
My bad, I believe it was RC priests, instead…!
i found this on huffpo that said it was the greyfriars, the franciscans. who buried his body:
Richard, the last English king to die in battle, was buried “without any pomp or solemn funeral” by the Franciscan monks of Grey Friars.
No problem…. as a fallen-away I am certain that given the chance the RC priests would have thrown a losing king into a hole….. they just didn’t know they had Henry VIII in their future. Karma is a beyotch.
… Karma is a beyotch…
*heh* Ain’t She…? ;-) Yet we still fail to grasp her Wisdom…!
Hi, guys! ctut, you do know there weren’t any Anglicans in Richard’s time, right? The Reformation hadn’t happened yet, let alone Henry VIII splitting off the Church of England.
And Dearie, the friars were actually hiding Richard’s body from more humiliation and mutilation. some of those injuries were from his body being paraded around, thrown over a horse, with hands tied.
The “Friars minor” at the Greyfriars church got his body and hastily buried it, more or less secretly, to prevent more of that. But they put it under the choir, near the high altar; a place of honor for a king.
The fact that they acted in secret, and there were few and obscure references to what they had done, is why there were competing theories about what happened to him.
Why, yes, I’ve been following the investigation, the dig, and the waiting-with-bated-breath for the results. Why do you ask?
hey tejan — how’s your day been?
The scolisis is thought by the forensic analysts to have developed in adolescence; the report does not say anything about being caused by an injury; I don’t think scoliosis happens that way.
I remember a girl in my childhood church who had it; it definitely became worse in her teen years. I think, by definition, scoliosis develops, rather than is caused by something external.
And Richard had no pad of fat…he was described as rather slight of build. The skeleton shows he was about 5’8″, and the scoliosis’s visible sign was no more than one shoulder higher than the other. This is the origin of the exaggeration of the hunchback of Shakespeare’s Richard.
There, have I told you all way more than you wanted to know?
… Why do you ask?… *heh* I’m glad I concentrated on Asian-Pacific History, less dramas…! ;-)
no. more please :)
Hiya, Suze. It was not as productive as it should have been, but not a total loss, either. We were supposed to get thunderstorms, and the morning looked like they were coming, but they never did. Just a light rain over night and in early morning. Warm-cool – up to 60′s with strong breeze in the afternoon. Sweater weather. ; )
Aaaand….my Girl Scout cookies were delivered this evening! Yaay!
All Thin Mints this time, just three boxes of them. Wasn’t sure how tight the budget would be by delivery time, so I didn’t go wild. double smile ; )
Sorry. Didn’t mean to figuratively beat you about the head and shoulders with the metaphorical bones of the last Plantagent king.
did you know he was the last English king to die in battle?
oh my stars — is it girl scout cookie time again? i’ve always loved their shortbreads and their peanut butter cream cookies
don’t be sorry– i asked for more. i find it all so fascinating
There is something about finding the bones of the last king of England to die in battle that is ‘thoughtsome’… as it were. I don’t have words for how I feel about this finding. I am touched. Just as a human being who takes interest in the human condition. You know?
that they could id him blows me away. what are the odds that a body buried for more than 500 years could be id’d…
Ha. My eyes are going. Completely missed the period after the “no.”
Okay, let’s see…actually, we may have exhausted my knowledge of Richard if you read PW’s thread, and clicked the links. those BBC links are really interesting.
I didn’t know until I was reading up on the skeleton i.d. that the location of the battlefield has recently been corrected. All these centuries it was thought to be a mile or two from where it’s now identified. Why the top of a hill was thought to be a battlefield where the kind was killed because his horse became “mired in marsh”, I dunno.
But the new location, which is a more or less flat field with marshes, seems pretty clearly the right place.
They’ve been finding pieces of armor, leather straps that held armor on, bits of weapons, and most amazing of all, a tiny “badge” in the shape of a boar, which was Richard III’s emblem. He would have given them to the nobles, maybe commanders, even his squires, closest to him. It’s only an inch long. Amazing to me that it was found.
Isn’t it amazing! If I could go back and study again, I’d study genetics and want to get into the DNA field early on. I am astounded and thrilled and excited about what DNA is able to reveal. Great stuff.
how forking kewl (and no worries — my eyes are old too)
to think it was a parking lot for so many years…. i missed how they came to dig there in the first place
The recent NOVA program on the inter breeding of Neanderthals with Homo Sapiens was also mind opening. Just wonderful stuff. DNA. Love it!
and Suze – yeah, part of the fascination for me is how several ways of putting together what’s known along with the newest forensic science to make the identification about as positive as it could ever be. Even 20 years ago I bet the DNA evidence couldn’t have been done. It seems not that long ago that I read in Newsweek or somewhere about mitochondrial DNA for the first time. That blew me away then.
The fact of the scoliosis and the battle wounds, of course, are major components, unlike an ordinary person who died in bed. Sure plenty of medieval men died in battle and had terrible wounds, but did they also have something like scoliosis? There was also a barbed arrowhead lodged in the spine. Then there’s the facial reconstruction, which looks amazingly like the portraits.
Wow Thanks! My favorite Richard the III is Ian McKellen’s The first time I saw it I was stunned. So THIS is what all the fuss about Shakespeare comes from!
the forensic stuff always appealed to me — when i was working detectives, i attended several schools where forensic experts came in to talk about what they do… had a forensic anthropologist come in from chico state to one school up in sacramento iirc. he and his team of students were often called out when old bones were found and a determination was needed of how old… are they the remains of a modern day crime or are they from the gold rush days etc….
i forking loved that!
hey spocko — how ya doing tonight?
My sister was diagnosed with scoliosis in her teen years and had to wear a serious back brace when she was at home. I have cute pics of her in a bikini with the brace! Now they check kids in middle school.
One of the links I put in PW’s thread has a pretty good synopsis on that, I think.
There is the obscure reference by a contemporary chronicler saying the friars of the Greyfriars church buried him, under the choir of their church. And that’s exactly where he was found; they located the choir of the church before the bones; decorated tiles, structural components, etc.
The problem was locating the site of the church, which was torn down in the next century. It seems that the last person to search for it (early this century? I forget) misread the old maps he used and misidentified the church, so he went looking in the wrong church site and found nothing.
A more careful comparison of ancient maps of Leicester with modern maps and satellite photos got the right place. The car park.
In a way, it’s fortuitous that it was a car park.Imagine if it had been the basement of someone’s house, or City Hall, or a bank or something.
“Pardon me, sir, we’d like to dig up your entire basement on the chance that old Richard III might be buried there. We’ll only disturb you for six months or so….”
weather dood is saying showers sat instead of the good day he had forecast. looks like maybe sunday will be the day to test out a small walk
or if digging out the basement, they found the bones and he was just some john doe reburied or laying in a museum drawer somewhere
BTW, on of the project I’m working on I’ll be putting up tomorrow.
It’s about trying to find out a corporations firearm policy.
It’s one of my patented Letter to the CEO where I ask them why they aren’t following the values they list in their web page.
It’s to the CEO of the largest Christian broadcasting radio company.
Do you believe in making people safer or do you want more guns everywhere?
Please tell us your policies, because people listen to you and your hosts. Which side are you on? Safety or danger? If you want guns everywhere, does your insurance carrier know?
If you don’t want guns in the workplace to your gun enthusiasts hosts know?
If they know but are ignoring you, what is your response? Let it slide, or act? Remember this isn’t about the 2nd Amendment this is about your rules and if people who work for you comply.
Funny. I actually saw the play off-Broadway with Al Pacino in the ’80′s.Quite a performance.
But remember, Shakespeare’s Richard III was written to please the son of the usurper, the victor over Richard at Bosworth, so you have to take a big grain of salt with it.
I knew twins in the early 80s who had scoliosis and wore the big braces. And I knew the woman from the 50s before such a brace was available. That woman was a true hunch back…. and also an RN who worked with children. Scoliosis in earlier times was truly disfiguring.
sweet! looking forward to it dood
time for me to head out pups. thank you for letting me hang out here with ya tonight.
I love the theory of the Neanderthal and sapiens, too. Sorta knocks the accepted theory utterly askew.
Hmmm. “Bones” did an episode riffing off that discovery, too. They occasionally do old bones analysis like that…I bet next season works in the Richard discovery somehow.; ) One of my favorite series.
So, Suze, when you say “test a small walk,” what are you thinking of? Around the block? Something farther?
Ohhhhh….I was gonna go to bed early! But just couldn’t resist the topic….
Sleep well, Suze, Dearie, and everybody. Better go jump in the bed, too.
Sweet dreams, Suz and tj…!
Saturday, November 22, 2014 2:00 pm Pacific Pay Any Price: Greed, Power, and Endless WarChat with James Risen about his new book. Hosted by Tim Shorrock.
Sunday, November 23, 2014 2:00 pm PacificAngels by the River: A MemoirChat with Gus Speth about his new book. Hosted by Will Potter.
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