It’s apparent that Barack Obama thinks of himself as a pragmatic politician. Apparently pragmatism to Obama means doing something, without regard to any principles, and with no thought of how whatever emerges from our legislative process might be carried into practice or how it might damage other more important goals and purposes.
At the beginning of his first term, Obama faced tremendous problems with a crashing economy, a rump minority in the Senate dedicated to destroying his presidency and a bloodthirsty plutocratic class. On the positive side, he wanted to enact health care reform. Dealing with these problems required massive negotiation with the nutcases in the House of Representatives and a bunch of Blue Dog Democrats in both the House and the Senate. We saw Obama’s pragmatic approach to getting something done. The results were just what you would expect: Rube Goldberg statutes like Obamacare and Dodd-Frank with no clear vision and no clear path to implementation. We also saw him refuse to deal fairly with the damage inflicted on the middle class by the financial sector for pragmatic political reasons. He couldn’t help those homeowners, he couldn’t get a bipartisan deal.
In the re-election campaign, Obama made no effort to reach out to the netroots or to harness the energy even of his Obot supporters directly. Instead, he went after the low-information voters using technologies and systems that made it possible to generate the appearance of activism through standard political techniques like phone calls and door-knocking. Even that only took place in a few states. Obama was able to ignore the big states, which wouldn’t vote for Mitt Romney under any circumstances. Republicans ran as anti-everybody but white men and the women who are submissive to them. That made it possible for Obama to win their votes by supporting the status quo. He didn’t have to make any promises, he didn’t have to offer to deal with any of the problems facing the vast majority of Americans.
And he didn’t. During the campaign he talked a lot about two topics: increased taxes on the richest Americans, and shared sacrifice. The first point is concrete and real. The second is amorphous and easy to misinterpret. Apparently many people believed that somehow this sacrifice was the increased tax on the rich. They missed the part where Obama promised to wreck Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. He never explained why the 99% was to be sacrificed when the damage was done by the .1% and their servant class of professionals and bankers. And he most certainly didn’t say exactly what it was that the 99% were to sacrifice. That made it possible for Obama voters to imagine that somehow that sacrifice wouldn’t crush their dreams of retirement. And for millions, shared sacrifice means loss of jobs, stagnant wages and loss of their homes.
As a result, Obama can govern with no regard to anyone but himself. He doesn’t pay attention to whatever’s left of the left, and the low-information voters are easily distracted. Now that he is off the campaign trail forever, Obama can return to his comfortable chair in the bubble and listen to the Clintonites and Republicans who want to wreck Democratic legacy programs. The Republicans want the Democrats to take the heat for cutting these crucial programs. They want him to sacrifice Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid so that the bulk of the damage falls on the poorest Americans and they want to be able to campaign against the idiot Democrats who vote for it.
This freedom from campaign promises has enabled Obama to engage his e-mail list of his activists in a campaign to raise taxes on the richest while distracting them from their shared sacrifice. Look at this tax thing, ignore that man behind the screen cutting your Medicare. To see this in action, look at the Facebook page or the twitter stream for @JointheAction. You will see lots of talk about the discharge petition for a bill that raises taxes on the rich and retains the Bush tax cuts for the rest of us. You won’t see anyone talking about Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid, except a couple of lonely replies from @masacciofdl saying that shared sacrifice is for masochists. Of course, that guy can safely be ignored: he’s a dirty hippy who doesn’t understand that you have to be all bipartisany in the real world of DC politics.
@JointheAction is the mirror image of @FixTheDebt. It’s the Facebook page and twitter stream operated by a group of corporations, funded by the likes of Peter G. Peterson, whose sole reason for staying alive is the destruction of the Democratic Party’s legacy, especially Social Security. It calls for bipartisan solutions to deal with the national debt, without mentioning cuts to the Democratic Legacy Programs. Its praise of bipartisanship is a way to neutralize the massive victory won by the Democrats in the last election.
Why does Obama think slashing Democratic Legacy Programs is a good idea? Why ruin the lives of millions to soothe the hurt feelings of the Crazy Party? Under what theory can you justify any of this clownish posturing, or the utterly stupid ideas that are floated out like raising the eligibility age for Medicare? How do you explain Obama’s willingness to pretend that he is hostage to the debt ceiling or the fake fiscal whatever? Why does Obama think, as Jonathan Chait puts it, that he has to throw a bone to the Republicans to do some kind of deal? And which of your bones and my bones does he think we should throw to the zombies? How much money should we pay so Obama can cut some kind of deal?
There are no answers. There is no theory. There are no principles. There is only the bipartisan deal, a deal at any sacrifice, so long as the sacrifice is shared by everyone except the oligarchs and their servants. That’s the lesson Obama learned from his first term.
In his second term, we will all learn that pragmatism without principles is murderous.
Photo by JJ Hall under Creative Commons license.




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A good essay, so far as it goes, but if falls short of what I expected would be its logical conclusion: that the lesser-evilists and Obama loyalists are every bit as much low information voters as the tea party voters.
If you voted for him you are going to get what you voted for. No surprise here!
do we have to wait to see what happens, to know what happens? perhaps.
or we can make it happen.
a few supposes:
-what if Obama likes the LBJ and FDR legacy and the two giant social justice programs they have created — SS and Medicare?
-what if, as a pragmatic politician, he doesnt want to go down as the Democrat who opened up the two great Democratic reforms for gutting and regutting and eventual privatization by goopers and DINOs????
-what if???
and
-what if we take OB seriously when he talks as a community organizers and tells us REPEATEDLY to get organized around what we want and make him do what WE want.
We the people.
Without genuine bipartisanship it will play out like the ACA with “grass-root” protests, demonization, and the SC declaring it unconstitutional for arcane reasons.
.
I slightly disagree with jiacovelli above, the the obots and lesser-evilists are not only low information voters, many knew the problems with o but were so terrified of a repug, one that was admittedly out of touch with the 99%, that they automatically voted for o. Now that group will stay in the veal pen telling the world how everything is fine now and that o has no choice but to cave to those powerful repug forces. The rest of the dims stand-by unable to fight for anything because they would be accused of “letting the perfect be the enemy of the good” and the whole dim legacy will go down to cheers from the dims.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FGvEEJmKRjc/UBRekX_BJQI/AAAAAAAABl8/jZ3P7axiWGg/s1600/charlie+brown.jpg
Two of my friends, liberal husband and wife are well educated, listen to the news and read three papers, including the NYT and will debate any issue except Obama. I have to walk lightly when discussing legislation or Beltway BS and discussing Obama is a no mans land.
PS To paraphrase a quote “bipartisanship in our time.” Obama gives pragmatism a bad name.
You can’t keep the piggies out forever. When they get in they will undo many of the things you were afraid of when you voted for Obama as the lesser evil.
.
Hahahaha, you’re a real jokster. Make o do what we want. Are you one of those who thinks that there is a real progressive or even a real dim residing in o but it can’t come out because he has to get reelected? I don’t understand. Now that he is out of the reelection cycle he doesn’t have to cave to the repugs; he could actually get tough and force them to go to the logical conclusions of their nonsense. Do you think that he would do that under any circumstances?
I disagree. Obama is perfectly in tune with maintaining and extending the power of the American nation which is exactly the purpose of all our elites and when you come right down to it most conservatives. His purpose therefore is the greater good as defined by American exceptionalism.
Now no such simple definition can’t capture complex reality but I think it is a better summary than the ‘purposeless, compromise for the sake of compromise’ one.
I agree that is true for those that voted for o. I did not vote for either candidate of the uniparty and will never again unless there is major change or at gun point.
Precisely what do you think progressives should have done? As this post says, Obama didn’t ever care what us loser hippies think or want. He doesn’t talk to us, let alone listen to what we say. The people who voted for him don’t listen to us either. So what should we have done?
Right now it looks like Obama drew about 4 million fewer votes in 2012 than in 2008. I’d guess that disaffected progressives are a big part of that difference. He won big, without any help from the netroots and progressive activists. What else would have made a difference?
There’s no bigger delusional bubble then the one the criminal elites live in and believe protects them.
310 million angry, desparate Americans are going to pop that bubble.
The difference is that he won’t act as fast as Romney would have — and if you think that we needed someone like Romney to goad the FOX-misled Joe and Jane Sixpacks of the US, the ones who aren’t into politics because they aren’t into anything right now besides working two or more jobs when they can find them in order to pay off their staggering home, college and credit-card loans, into becoming full-bore Socialists with fully awakened class consciousnesses, you would have been doomed to sad disappointment.
Nixon’s 1968 win didn’t do it. He had to pretty much take out himself with his own corruption — and that didn’t happen until after his first term was done.
Reagan’s 1980 win didn’t do it. He got elected to two terms, same as Nixon — and this was without Rush Limbaugh and FOX to aid him.
Bush I’s 1988 win didn’t do it. The craptastic state of the economy led to Bill Clinton’s win in 1992, but Clinton’s power to effect positive change was severely curtailed after 1994, when Republicans used the tax hikes Clinton’d pushed through to take over Congress and hold it for most of the next eighteen years.
Bush II’s 2000 steal didn’t do it. By this time, the end of the Fairness Doctrine and Newt Gingrich’s deal to allow foreign ownership of US TV networks (aka the Rupert Murdoch deal) that gave us FOX News meant that the AM radio waves and the TV airwaves and cables and satellite transmitters were dominated by conservative corporate-friendly crapola disguised as news, thus impairing the judgement of its consumers.
With Citizens United guaranteeing that people like Sheldon Adelson can dump billions into the US election process, it’s rather amazing that most Americans aren’t more conservative or apathetic than they are now.
What things are working for the American left, in terms of turning more Americans towards the left (though not towards the open revolt so many progs dream of)? The Occupy movement, for starters. Here’s how:
1) Its very existence interrupted the 24/7 media dominance exercised by the Pete Peterson deficit scolds and carved out space to discuss things like foreclosures and jobs and fairness and income inequality.
2) Its Occupy Sandy branches are winning over folks in conservative parts of New York and Jersey. People that two months ago were being arrested by the NYPD are now working in concert with them and the National Guard and various local community groups to rebuild Staten Island, Red Hook and other hard-hit places — and to rebuild them in a way that supports economic democracy.
+5. Dead on. The most obvious example is the true ” bipartisanship ” seen in the numerous free trade agreements both party elites support. Harmful to the same people who put Obama over the top, American exceptionalism, always wins these elections. Another term for American exceptionalism is the MIC and Wall Street bipartisanship, for Empire Building 101. A course it seems is taught in every MBA program in this country. What is the antidote to this propaganda harming 90% of the citizenry?
“Wreck,”"slashing,” “murderous” – this language seems hyperbolic and premature to me.
Amen! It brings the first hope for turning the tide. I have felt in years.
Great people. Great process.
While I hope you’re right, I doubt it, also I congratulate Masaccio on a very well written and accurate diary.
Seems reasonable to me as a way to describe gutting the social safety net
in times of chronic unemployment.
In regard to the next 4 years, they will be all about Obama’s agenda to get as close to the elite 1% as he possibly can.
” Gutting.” This is the same misuse of language.
Really?
Do you realize that in 10-15 years the vast majority of people retiring won’t have anything but Social Security to live on and maybe a little 401K money that Wall Street has already stolen vast sums from?
Even a little cutting of Social Security is going to be devastating to millions of people.
And what they want is to tell current people don’t worry, nothing happens to you. You are protected and we need to do this so you will stay safe so they will support these cuts.
Meanwhile people who are going to be hurt are not paying attention or don’t realize they will be living in poverty because of the cuts both sides want to make.
As to Medicare, the whole thing is to make sure to kill off as many people as possible so you don’t have to spend money on them when they are old.
The adjectives are accurate.
Don’t step into that illusion again. He lost Blue Dog Democratic voters who voted Republican this time even as Republican turnout dropped because of the Mitt wasn’t conservative enough.
And folks in noncontested states showed up in fewer numbers unless there was a marquee-level Senate, Congressional, or Governor’s race.
The problem with progressive activists is that while they are numerically significant in numbers, they are geographically insignificant in deciding national elections or even state elections. But this year disaffected Republicans who were tired of the craziness were geographically significant although they might not have been numerically significant nationwide. Republican union members angry at Kasich likely delivered Ohio, for example.
Obama’s seeming rudderless pragmatism reflects the serious divisions in the Democratic caucus and the order of power of the Congressional committee chairs. He is the first President in history who has had to get absolute unity of virtually every issue from his own caucus because of the inflexibility of the other caucus. Unity from two dramatically different sets of principles–and then there is the Republican caucus to maneuver around.
From Obama’s and the Democrats’ perspective, progressives are summer soldiers who won’t stand through tough times. And thus the loyal soldiers are the ones who deserve listening to. That’s not stating an excuse for Obama. That’s stating a fundamental problem with progressives’ expectations. Change the political landscape and you change the response. But don’t expect to be acknowledged or thanked even then. Branding demands Democratic victories and victories for the President.
Nonetheless this is a helpful diary to have yet another I hate Obama venting session.
There are bigger fish to fry and they are not in the nation’s capital or the Democratic Party. Change the political culture and you change the politics.
Interesting that as I read this I received an email from Howard Dean telling me to work to protect Medicare. So Democracy for America at least is doing something.
The same Howard Dean that says taxes must go up on everyone including the middle-class and the poor?
Well, if our taxes need to go up Howard, then we want our pay to go up just like the elites’ (stolen) wealth has skyrocketed over the past 12 years.
Until that happens, shut up Howard about our taxes.
And maybe you should be out there demanding jobs for the 23 million Americans who don’t have them Howard.
carp carp carp.
as for me, i am working on making him do what we want him to do: take the off-ramp from the bush tax cuts.
that is better than complaining that he hasnt done it before he hasnt done it.
i stick with the what-if-OB, the president who doesnt want his legacy to be that he was the democratic president who trussed up FDR and LBJ legacies — ss and medicare — for slaughter in the short run, and privatization later.
maybe he will be the guy who decides to uncouple the third-rail and make it ez for the goopers to bury these great reforms. i am working to make that harder for him as a choice.
the NYTimes has a chart that shows how revenue can be raised just on taxes.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/12/08/us/variations-on-obamas-tax-plan.html?ref=politics
will OB do that?
dunno.
but that is way more likely than raising Medicare age, in my view.
cite please.
You do realize there’s nothing you can do at this point, and that the forces marshaled against you are far more powerful than those of the dissident community.
Let’s plan for what happens AFTER Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security are cut.
Howard Dean: “The Truth Is Everybody Needs To Pay More Taxes, Not Just The Rich”
clip
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/12/06/howard_dean_the_truth_is_everybody_needs_to_pay_more_taxes_not_just_the_rich.html
second one you have to watch it all
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/49263362#50096546
Sure is a head scratcher that one of Obama’s heroes is the detested Reagan, that he wanted Greg Judd in his cabinet and now Chuck Hagel.
Guess there weren’t any qualified or “right-stuff” Democrats to fill the bill.
.
No. We are fighting now. If we don’t, this is over.
cliche master/mistress strikes again.
Chuck Hagel you mean the first man to buy himself an election in America through the electronic machines?
thanks.
that is preferable to changes in medicare and ss benefits, ages, etc, in my view. but certainly not the first or second steps; and only acceptable if it includes the dividend and capital gains increases, with sharp estate tax increases.
see here for examples:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/12/08/us/variations-on-obamas-tax-plan.html?ref=politics
I’d call Obama mendacious rather than a “pragmatist”. Sure, our government has been corrupted enough that the two have become synonymous- particularly within the corporate media bubble where Democratic politicians are routinely expected to act against the interests of their voters. But the fact is that Obama and Democrats like him sold out from day one. Sure, occasionally they throw out a bone to progressives so that they can try to hide their true goals from us huddled masses. But in the end, they act in their funders interests, not ours.
Masaccio, was that a rhetorical question? If not, I would like to suggest that it is the hospitals and doctors who stand to benefit if Medicare age is raised to 67. During the last hostage taking situation, the debt limit negotiations of July, August, September 2011, it was the hospital groups and drug groups who supported the idea of raising Medicare age. The fees they can charge for insurance are higher than Medicare fees and charges. Here is a link or two on that topic. In summary, I think Obama is an opportunistic man, someone who is in it for the money.
Link #1
Link #2.
And as a group, Congress is just a bunch of millionaires who are in it for the money also.
Notice how Dean uses the term “rich folks”.
Hey Dean, try something like criminal elite next time.
What if monkeys suddenly come flying out of my keyster?
Why I don’t take anything Barack Obama says seriously:
His FISA about face.
His No more “Scooter Libber Justice” comments.
Blowing up people’s children and then saying, “What children?” “Who are you going to believe, me or your own lying eyes?” and “These bombs don’t officially exist, but if I had some I would blow up them Jonas Brothers
boys for getting too close to my daughters.” (So funny)
(Our beloved president also thinks it’s funny to ridicule postal workers for being lazy and shiftless.)
And he must have lost every pair of comfortable shoes he owns.
He gave Shirley Sharrod the Lani Gunier treatment.
He tells the banksters, “I got your back.” (Comforting the comfortable)
He tells the NAACP, “Buck up.”
He said that dropping bombs on people is not war after congress refused to declare war. (see Libya)
I’m still waiting for Card Check.
In the president’s defense, although his sick, sad, corporatist education policy sucks rhinoceros testicles, at least it’s consistent with what he said he was going to do in 2008. (See FISA, card Check, Closing Guantanamo, Ending the ridiculous GWOT (instead of merely eliminating the name).
Fighting how? Are we going to plead extra-hard before the emperors in DC? I know! Let’s organize some mass demonstrations in the short time before we are either co-opted or crushed by the Democratic Party!
Judd Gregg, not Greg Judd.
Funny thing about that was Judd accepted the position (Commerce Secretary, which Judd had once voted to eliminate), then decided he didn’t want the position, then abstained from voting on the stimulus, screwing Obama twice. Obama even cut a deal with the New Hampshire governor (a Dem) not to appoint a Dem to the vacated seat. Judd Gregg screwed him anyway.
Obama didn’t seem to be bothered by it, as Judd is a Republican and does no wrong in Obama’s eyes.
Exactly right. One has to wonder if the Democrats in the Senate would have blocked attempts by the wing-nut crazies and the president to gut SS and Medicare if Romney had won the presidency. If for no other reasons than partisanship and campaign bolstering for 2014.
After these programs are decimated it really won’t be much of a stretch to lay the fault for the gutting of SS and MC at the feet of the lesser-evilists and Obots. Our consolation will be that the SCOTUS won’t be quite as right-wing crazy as it would have if Romney had gotten to make two supreme court appointments.
Whew! Close one! I guess it all depends on whether one is glass 1/20th full instead of glass 19/20th empty like me.
Obama destroyed a fine woman’s career because of his fear of Andrew Breitbart and love of Republicans.
The middle class and poor have lost much of their wealth these past 12 years as well as had their wages depressed and slashed. Plus, health insurance costs have skyrocketed as well as other state and local taxes.
The middle class and poor can’t go back to paying Clinton era tax rates without taking a major hit or sinking altogether.
The 16 trillion dollar debt was run up to benefit the rich, and they are going to pay it off.
The middle class and the poor and our children are not going to pay their debt.
There are many ways to fight these bastards. Sitting typing on a keyboard and saying it’s lost makes it so.
dont forget droney.
i dont.
dont forget forgiving the phone company complicity with wiretaps.
i dont.
but i do believe in the what-if fairy.
me too on this way, not the hiway.
take the off-ramp from the Bush tax cuts.
it is allot clearer on the road.
agreed.
first raise taxes as shown here,http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/12/08/us/variations-on-obamas-tax-plan.html?ref=politics
top left box, along with tough estate taxes, with rates going to at least 75%, while having a low single-figure exemption.
then, find a path to get unemployment benefits extended.
Well said and correctly stated. :)
Let’s be clear Ready: you’re the doomsayer, not me.
You said, over at #31:
Au contraire: it’s not going to be “over” (whatever sort of weeping, moaning, and gnashing-of-teeth reality that means), not after the Grand Bargain is passed, and not after the TPP is passed. Try to keep it in mind, as you read this post, Ready, that I don’t think that it’s going to be “over.”
The problem, obviously, is that “our fighting” has been of no consequence so far. Occupy didn’t have critical mass, thus a coalition of Democrat mayors organized a series of evictions in city after city. The popular resistance to Scott Walker in Wisconsin became a movement to elect a couple of establishment Democrats to positions in the state legislature.
Before we really “fight this thing,” we need to recognize what sort of power we actually have. Claiming that we’re going to “fight this thing” while misrecognizing our power is hardly a persuasive move.
Don’t you just love the Right wing telling us now that even if Obama raises taxes on the rich it’s just a drop in the bucket?
Raise them. A drop is better then a hole.
Actually, most of those 310 million angry people are going to pop each other. The elites will have little trouble finding violent overseers to herd the survivors.
It’s over for them. It’s over for a “steady state” which the middle class and poor have tolerated until now even as we have been slowly crushed. Their endless looting and slashing is going to lead to their heads being used as decorations.
Maybe because you’re not the one being ‘wrecked, slashed, and murdered.’ Not yet, anyway.
Remember, money and power are their twin gods. Losing either is a death of magnitudes to them.
No, we are going to stand together against the elites. That is what we need to, and will do.
I no longer understand the argument that Obama is interested in bipartisanship because of some semi-pathological need he has to make a deal, any deal.
For the same reason that Mitch McConnell and Peter Peterson do. It’s not poor governance, some misguided bipartisanship, it’s Obama’s ideology and social, political preference.
I got that e-mail, too–and what it urged us to do, specifically, was “fight the Republican attempt to gut Medicare”. (That’s not verbatim, but it’s what the e-mail said.) The centrist-y pragmaticalists are framing this as a Republican problem; in other words, they’re lying. They’re counting on the tribal, low-info Obama boosters that jiacovelli described above to confuse the issue, to alter the perception if not the reality. So, in the end, Democrats will merrily chop Medicare and Social Security to ribbons while Republicans take the blame for it–gladly, because both parties share the same agenda.
Such melodrama!
You do realize that this conversation, like all the others, is going into an NSA database in Utah…
x2
Yes. And? Will the Mormons feed me? Will they feed 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100 million?
We will fight to survive. They already know that.
So excited to be on the same thread with someone who is really committed, as opposed to all these “Obama loyalists.”
I can tell from your comment that you filed, but did not pay your FEDERAL income taxes. Did you hedge your protest by paying a portion of your FEDERAL taxes. I want to know how really committed you are to the struggle against the “Obama loyalists?”
When are you going to write a diary urging the rest of us to follow your lead and file, but not pay our FEDERAL taxes? That we can support you when the IRS comes after you. Look at what Jane did for Bradley Manning. FDL will do the same for you.
Isn’t that really the only way to smoke out these vichy “Obama loyalists.”
How much are you contributing to FDL every month? For the last few years I’ve been kicking in $20/month, try to contribute to one-time requests and Occupy when I can. Your comment has convinced me I should try to do more.
Hey Sailor.
See those questions for jiacovelli? You can answer those too. Lead the way.
Do you really think Howard Dean would govern as Obama has? Everyone’s taxes do need to go up to pay for this mess. However, as Willy Sutton said when asked why he robbed banks, ” because that’s where the money is “. If Obama can’t win the 2%ers tax increase he certainly couldn’t convince the rest of the electorate to sensible tax rates for all. The successful economic model, destroyed by Team Reagan, is the high tax, high services model. The quality of life argument is the most convincing to be made here. Unless you envision life beyond this having 24/7 harp music and goose down pillows, comforters and feathered beds. Certainly there are poor and lower middle class citizens in Vermont, but taken in the aggregate, the quality of life for Vermonters is much better than the same measurements taken of citizens in most urban areas of America today. Agreed?
x3
No! It can’t be true! The government needs a warrant to collect identifiable personal info from an internet provider, right? /s/
Bear, in what year did you stop paying your FEDERAL income taxes?
Seems the elites and Obama enjoyed a screening of PBS’ The Dust Bowl together.
They said holy hell, we’ve been treating these serfs way too well.
Look at what people in America will endure. Nothing to eat and dirt blowing over them for more then a decade.
Time to stop our babying of them. Time for some real sacrifice from them.
Obama, we can afford a little 3% tax hike that won’t hit us anyhow because we are the real rich. The elite. The gods of the world.
Raise the rates and slash their safety net.
If they don’t like it tell them to eat dirt.
All the “big-talkers” on this ought to thank a real patriot, Tarheel Dem, who had the guts to get arrested protesting NATO in Chicago.
Long past time for all these folks who talk so tough, to back it up with some activism.
You don’t want to pay FEDERAL income taxes legally?
Then don’t work. No income. No FEDERAL income taxes.
Of course many of us are doing this already because WE HAVE NO JOBS!
Yeah, we get it, tiger: you’re in a cranky mood. Grrr.
When did you stop paying your FEDERAL income taxes?
Mmeeoww.
If they don’t work, how can they afford a computer, internet access, and the luxury of time to read FDL? If any of these folks believed what they wrote, they wouldn’t be paying all or part of their FEDERAL taxes. In that case they would be writing diaries at FDL and other sites begging people to help them. They would want publicity and help paying their legal costs in fighting the IRS.
When do you think you earned the right to question other people’s commitment to the cause based on a message board post? Your behavior is ridiculous.
I saw the same series but my take away from that was ” move, you dumb asses. ” Why would you farm land that was never meant for farming row crops unless you were counting on divine intervention to reap the fruits of your misguided labor?. It is the same old, same old ” jesus will provide, bullshit ” that’s screwed up human progress for 2000 effin’ years. Ya know, while all knowledge is incomplete, it isn’t completely out to lunch, either. Just sayin’.
Cause no one will counter the argument?
Raving like a jackass doesn’t constitute an argument. You know precisely nothing about my employment situation, my donation history or my day-to-day existence. Your presumptions are slightly funny at best and pathetic at worst.
What happened to “Grrrr,?”
I know all I need to about “your situation.” You’ve got education, and you’re on this side of the digital divide.
Must be embarrassing to lose an argument to a “raving jackass.”
Here’s what I know.
We’ve got a few folks on this thread bragging about how much they hate OBAMA and his policies. Hmmmm. Do they want to keep the focus on him and not on the ELITES who pull his strings? Inquiring minds want to know.
We’ve got a few who have the nerve to criticize, a real effing warrior, masaccio, a guy who doesn’t charge FDL a nickel for years of writing high quality posts that are consistent with what the print media gets from their Tier 1 labor.
We’ve got a bunch on this thread who want to brag about how much they hate Obama and his policies, but dutifully pay their FEDERAL income taxes.
You want “pathetic?” It’s paying your FEDERAL taxes and encouraging others to do the same (or at least not discouraging them) when they’re used for purposes you claim (while hiding behind the safety of your handle)
to think are immoral.
Something else I know, you haven’t yet written a diary yet for FDL.
What’s your plan, Sam? What ACTIONS should we be taking? Prioritize your issues. Is it saving the Safety net? Is it saving the environment? Put it out there.
It didn’t take guts, BooRadley, it took being in the wrong place when there was a police “security theater” raid. After the point that I was in handcuffs, it was just a matter of not screwing up. I had the time and a little money, graciously supplemented by members of this community, and the desire to document history for MyFDL.
Don’t use me in your moral scolding.
I have a strong and terrible feeling that Obama DOES NOT LIKE either FDR or LBJ.
I think he likes St. Ronnie, and wants to fulfill St. Ronnie’s failed attempt to cut and damange SocSec and Medicare.
Obama has been talking about cuts to SocSec and Medicare since early 2007. His Wall Street backers probably hired party because of that.
Obama needs recalictrant Republicans and docile Democrats to get done WHAT HE WANTS TO DO.
Seriously, he is not a real Democrat, nor should he have run as one. That, however, may be his ultimate pragmatic move. To be elected he had to run as Democrat. However, he did not govern as one.
Book Salon up with Steven Johnson’s Future Perfect: The Case For Progress In A Networked Age hosted by Nicco Mele
I got the Gov. Dean email and suggested he pay more attention to what Obaman and the Corporatist Dems in DC want to do.
I doubt my reply will be read.
Oh, and I won’t vote Dem again if they go along with Obama’s Corporatist/Republican approach.
Why support a party working directly against our interests?
How ya doing Popeye? Good to see you here.
The problem is that folks are much to premature in judging what that “get what you voted for” is. This is either the beginning of a political-cultural pivot or it is not. And that will shape what Mister “Political Compass on the Absolute Political Center” will do.
I’m recommending holding judgement until the Presidential budget comes out in February. By then we will know (1) whether the tax cut expirations and budget sequesters automatically take place, (2) how unified the Congressional Democratic caucus is in defending the earned benefits (so-called “entitlements”), (3) the political consequences Republicans face for their strategy, (4) whether the Senate Democrats have the spine to gut the filibuster, and (5) how the President handles the Republicans’ hardnosed refusal to raise the debt ceiling, (6) whether the debt ceiling nonsense survive January’s fight, and (7) whether the Republicans finally admit that they really lost the election. History is no guide on any of these things because events and Occupy Wall Street are beginning to transform the political culture. (8) is whether that transformation continues.
At the end of the day Obama is not the be all or end all of the party and really he is not going to matter as much as the underlying philosophy of “pragmatism.”
There should be a discussion among the netroots about pragmatism, idealism and the concept of winning.
Winning does not mean much if what you win is sets you on a path to the diametric opposite of your intended goals. If your goal was to save the social safety nets then you essentially aren’t going to “win” when you have 2 candidates committed to decimating that system.
Throughout the campaign I heard how “pragmatic” activists were going to hold the Not Romney candidate’s feet to the fire to make sure that he did not decimate the safety net as he has stated on many occasions he is willing to do. I wish them luck at getting someone to do the stated opposite of what he has said his goals are when he has nothing to lose by not listening to them. My suggestion is going to be to spend their time focusing on the Senate and House who still have skin in remaining politically viable.
“We’ve got a few folks on this thread bragging about how much they hate OBAMA and his policies.”
“Bragging”? According to whom? Equating the statement of an informed opinion with boasting is incredibly presumptive.
“We’ve got a few who have the nerve to criticize, a real effing warrior, masaccio…”
Excuse me, but you’ve issued a proclamation stating that people can no longer criticize or disagree on FDL? Jesus, would you listen to yourself? I don’t see any out-of-bounds criticism of masaccio’s piece anywhere on this thread, and as an adult I’m sure he can handle what criticism there is.
“I know all I need to about ‘your situation’.”
No. You really don’t. You just want everyone to tell you that you’re absolutely right, and to shriek at those who refuse. That’s not an argument; it’s blatant childishness.
“Why support a party working directly against our interests?”
I couldn’t agree more.
I’ve grown to realize the smart thing to do when things around you look like shit— keep moving.
I’ve also grown to understand—why your feet can’t go when your heart is stuck.
Your arrest is “fair game.” If you wanna be left out, explain why I should. I’ll be happy to weigh any arguments you provide. Because of your sacrifice, intentional or otherwise, I’ll give your request the strong benefit of the doubt, but you have to make an argument.
I don’t see some of these mopes as anything but elitist funded trolls. Based on what I’m reading, they’re intentionally diluting efforts to resist the elites. It’s perplexing to me why you defend them. Have you noticed what’s happening in Michigan? Does anyone remember the “Weimar Republic?”
In April 2013, Wisconsin votes for a state Supreme Court justice. Right now the wingnuts lead by the Bradley Foundation have complete control all three branches of Badger government. They control both houses in the legislature, the Governor’s mansion and the state Supreme Court. April gives us a chance to take back the state Supreme Court. We could use a lot of help, but I some those you’re supporting will not be interested.Wingnuts have no such qualms about working together. Einhorn’s bought billboards in poor neighborhoods to suppress the vote. Then they Walker to give their hedge fund a $1M tax dollars intended for those same neighborhoods. When they’re not crushing the 99%, they’re trying to buy the Mets.
Like your post a lot. When I was holed up with El Commandante Obama in our headquarters at the top floor of an abandoned, south side warehouse near Comiskey we often spoke of the revolution in pragmatic terms. ” What has been lost and what has been gained ” was never too far from our nicotine enriched lips. Trust me on this one. And, the best part of this whole pragmatic package is the eternal question, ” Is you is or is you ain’t my baby? ” Speakin’ pragmatically, o’ course. Just longin’ for the good old days.
I’m interested in folks who are going to put effort and material support into destabilizing/removing the anti-democratic forces that control our country and our world.
So far, I’ve seen nothing from you that suggest you want to provide effort or material support.
I hope I’m wrong.
One of my favorite “scolds.”
Matthew 25
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Another one of my favorite “scolds.”
Luke 12:48 “…..For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required….”
I like the “humble brag.”
Discerning readers understand that even if your intent was not to get arrested, you put yourself in harm’s way. If more people would follow your example, we would not be in this mess.
I asked you to listen to yourself. Clearly, you’re not capable of doing that.
WWII was caused by pragmatist politicians, who wouldn’t stand for principle.
Obama would have been a hero then, that is, until the maniacs with principles decided to destroy the weak and cowardly, who wanted to please and compromise.
Extremism in the defense of virtue is no vice (recall that and cry).
Well, I’m not so worried where my heart is stuck as where my truck is stuck. But then I grew up in a certain place, and time, when even farmers with PhDs in economics, knew the difference. And, I’m just a stupid sod buster.
Thanks for this thoughtful comment. I don’t agree with you about the power of the Democratic caucus. A leader trying to work towards principled results would use all the tools of the presidency to get them to support him. Among other things, he would have participated heavily in the mid-term elections to secure a working majority for his views, and would have pushed openly and publicly for the policies he wanted.
Obama was totally passive. It was like he saw his role in the meetings as the facilitator, the guy who summarizes the ideas of the rest of the participants, and tries to find a reasonable consensus. We don’t need that. The spineless and partly corrupt congress was only interested in carrying out the wishes of their huge donors, not at all in reaching solutions to real problems in a principled way, or even in preserving the legacy programs of the Democratic party.
My view of the elections is purely anecdotal, and I’d love to see numbers. If you could provide a link, I’d appreciate it.
The point I tried to make about Obama and the spineless and worthless democratic party is that they have completely lost sight of the principles of governing as progressives or liberals. The outcome is bad laws, overly complex regulation, both of which are badly enforced and subject to assault by the Supreme Court.
This won’t change. Obama enables the worst side of the spineless party, and the progressive caucus doesn’t do anything to stop them.
That is just a great quote. Also, remember Hilary was a Goldwater Girl. I’m soooo excited about the future I could just pee my pants at the prospect.
Wow, the butt-hurt over being seen in the vealpen is deafening.
I, for one, did file, but not pay my 2011 federal and state taxes. So far, nary a peep from the IRS or DoR in my state. I wonder if it is because I made less than $15,000 for the year in actual income and only even taxes owe because I collected unemployment for half the year. Many people wonder what it’s like to have the “problem” of making so much money they actual owe any taxes at all…I suppose they should eat cake as a form of protest instead of not paying their non-existent federal taxes, eh Boo?
For the last few years I’ve been sending FDL $20/month. I send same amount that to emptywheel each month too. I also contribute, when I can, on a one-time basis to FDL and Occupy requests.
How much have you donated to FDL and other liberal progressive causes?
Actually Barack Obama HAS a purpose: to continue and perfect Reagan-Thatcher neoliberal governance and abet the looting of the commons. That is why he was so favored by Wall St. in 2008.
Obama may not be aware of his ideological stripes – but so what? Probably he considers his redder than red Reaganism to be merely matters of economic doctrine that were settled forever in the aftermath of the 1960s and 70s, things on which every knowledgeable person would agree. It just so happened that this policy orthodoxy which he inhabits and embodies, agreed perfectly with his own whorish ambitions to power and brought him to favor.
It may seem “inconvenient” to some that neoliberalism has invalidated itself in the steady hollowing out of American prosperity from 1980 to 2008, and that it finally cast itself into utter discredit in the great financial melt down of 2008-????. But Mr. Obama hasn’t minded that spectacularly flaming failure one bit. Reaganism may be a failure as an economic theory, but it still elevates whorish politicians just as quickly as it ever did. The rich got richer and the poor got poorer, and so the rich matter more now than they did at the start of the Reagan Revolution, despite the intellectual bankruptcy of their favorite ideas. And that is all that matters.
Obama’s lack of an ability to reflect upon the way his ideas have been contaminated by career nurturing, expedient myths and fraudulent theories posing as mathematics, does not make him a “purposeless pragamatist” with no ideological content. On the contrary. Obama’s robotic non-stop whoring for the financial oligarchs is THE ideological content of our age, distilled to a pure substance. It only looks neutral because it’s no longer alloyed with traditional Democratic economic thought at any percentage, however minuscule. Bill Clinton was the last major Democrat to experience or publicly wrestle with the disconnect between Democratic theory and the Republican shit they actually do once in office. His agony lasted for about the first six months of 1993, and after that he became Republican in thought and deed with no lingering symptoms of loyalty to ordinary Americans. Mr. Obama has never evinced any such internal conflicts. Indeed, since Jan. 20th 2008, the only limit or qualifier to Obama’s out and proud Reaganism hasn’t been How can I square what I’m doing with traditional Democratic economic ideas and rhetoric?, but only What can I get Democratic constituencies to swallow, and at what rate can I force ever more concentrated Republican ur-Capitalism down their throats before they die or rebel?
So an Obama Compromise never runs like so: “Will the Republicans accept a 66% top marginal income tax rate on incomes above a million dollars, in order to avoid an 80% rate?”, but rather “Will Republicans accept tiny increases in taxes on the wealthy in exchange for MASSIVE cuts to popular and historic Democratic social insurance programs – programs which should be expanded not cut and which cannot be cut without KILLING PEOPLE? We’re to believe that Obama always seeks a so-called compromise because he’s such an even handed guy and above partisan rancor. We’re told he wants to “unify” us. And he like to tell us it’s all in the spirit of getting along; but the content of his compromises always places the middle ground somewhere well to the right of where Ronald Reagan would have aimed back in the first heady days of his eponymous Revolution.
That’s not “compromise”, that’s a Trojan Horse. That’s a fucking RAT gnawing at the foundations of the Democratic Party and the Social Contract.
All parties are spineless. If you need back up just call up your local drug cartel. They’ll provide back up at a much lower cost, per unit, than any ” get out the vote ” organization could possibly imagine. Also, the opposite is true. The police and security state can suppress the vote, per unit, at a much lower cost than any party. And, the best part is we’re already paying for them.
“as for me, i am working on making him do what we want him to do: take the off-ramp from the bush tax cuts.
that is better than complaining that he hasnt done it before he hasnt done it.”
rather bad example – since he HAS NOT stopped the bush tax cuts once already!
So, we do get to complain that he has not done this – and it is AFTER he did it!
No offense, dude, but do you need an elbow extender to pat yourself on the back? I’ve got a couple on craigslist I’d be glad to sell you. They’ve never been fully utilized and are still in the original box.
Yes, progs are the kind of “summer soldiers” who refuse to fight on command for a depraved asswipe. Everyone knows that a “good soldier” does what he’s told, and doesn’t reason why. I love your ironic levity on this subject!
In my experience “butt-hurt,” is usually a derogatory term for sex between gay men. Maybe you intended it in some other way? As long as you apologize for using it, I won’t flag your comment for abuse.
Based on what you wrote, you’re in Romney’s 47%. All the wingnuts want to do is slash unemployment.
Please explain to me how you think Romney being president for the next four-years would have been better for you?
double post
No offense taken, dude.
Same questions for you. How much are you kicking in every month. This place doesn’t run on air.
With all the money you’re making on Craig’s list, you must have plenty left over to send to FDL.
The self-righteousness is staggering…
For the record, I pay anonymously for another FDLer’s full membership here every year (since he once said he couldn’t afford it).
I also worked full-time for the WI Dept of Admin until July 2011 when I was “let go” for protesting on many occasions in and around the Capitol.
Do I measure up to whatever ridiculous standards you have made up in your own head for whether or not strangers on the internet “measure up”? My guess is “no” since you clearly can’t or won’t hear anything or anyone else over the steady roar of self-loathing you feel confined to the vealpen. You know, you can leave that pen anytime you choose, right?
I’ve been kickin’ in since George McGovern ran for El Presidente in 1972. With time, treasure and opinions. If you like to see my political contributions, $$$, and my court and legal fees for fightin’ against the machine, I’ll give you the ” skinny ” on that, too. Other than my life is an almost open book, pucker up, I got just the place you can kiss!
That was for #108.
You seem to have two primary repetitive war cries: 1) Only those sending money to FDL have the right to utilize the free commenting feature that they provide for all in good conscience; and 2) People who wish to fund government services for poor people, wounded veterans, children, etc., should not pay taxes lest they be Boo-booed for bad behavior. Obviously, you appear to be fixated mainly on money matters. Perhaps your petty financial scoldings of others will be curtailed once you are informed that money does not define existence or worth for many, many other people? Please consider this new knowledge before next commenting.
“For the last few years I’ve been sending FDL $20/month.”
That’s great. For the last six years I’ve been ill, unable to work and mostly confined to my home–none of which means that I can’t, and don’t, fight for what I believe in. Bear in mind the old saying about assumptions, Boo. Bear in mind, too, that being a self-righteous prick does not give you the authority to question anyone else’s bonafides.
grimfees is absolutely right: everything you’ve posted on this thread reeks of butt-hurt.
Why does anyone need Obama to tell them what to think and believe and tell their two Senate and one House representatives??
Why does anyone need Obama to give them permission to petition their government through their two Senators and one House representatives to pass the kinds of laws needed to address the problems of the nation, their State, and their community?
Why does anyone need permission from Obama to organize fellow citizens to petition Congress in unity on matters of common purpose?
Does anyone think Obama gave permission or directions to the Tea Party?
And it was very clear what Republicans decided to do in early 2009, so organizing to defeat them in 2010 was very clearly the best option to advance all the major issues stalled by Republican obstructionism.
Obama is the President of the United States, not the President of just the Democrats. When the Tea Party organized and had an impact on the 2010 elections and on the 2012 elections, that must change the policies Obama pursues because he is their President too.
In the past year plus, Obama campaigned on a very narrow set of issues so that his election would clearly validate the policy that he campaigned day and night on, because that is also the mirror of the one principle of the Tea Party and Grover Norquist and the Republicans. But Grover Norquist did not appear yesterday, he defeated HW Bush for reelection hundreds of Republicans and dozens of Democrats with his very targeted campaign. He has created a big obstacle for a quarter century, and the only one to directly take on the Norquist anti-tax movement in a sustained campaign is Obama. Clinton caved. Gore caved. And yet you target Obama for “caving” after exacted a big price from the Republicans and then turned around and made it his primary campaign issue.
I suggest you join the Republican Party and become a Constitution activist who demands every Republican sign a pledge to uphold the Constitution to use the first enumerated power, listed first because it is the most important power of Congress, to pay for all the spending of Congress and to repay debt.
Oh right, Hitler was just another pragmatist who would compromise on any deeply held beliefs. That must be why he had so many Hebrews in his “team of rivals” cabinet.
That’s a good one!
Staggering you is no accomplishment.
How do you pay FDL anonymously? And why would you?
Why have you not written diaries about your protesting?
Why have you not written about getting fired for it?
Why in the name of God/Goddess/Science/ would you hide that “light under a bushel basket? Those are exactly they kinds of diaries we need more of.
What has AFSCME done to help you get your job back?
Some people are driving in from Madison for the Friday Fish Fry at Serb Hall.
What’s your skill set? What kinds of jobs do you want? There are a lot of Badgers at FDL, as well as many from the rust belt.
“Now that he is off the campaign trail forever, Obama can return to his comfortable chair in the bubble and listen to the Clintonites and Republicans who want to wreck Democratic legacy programs.”
Most of the Democratic Party is staying in the bubble and getting their cheerleading pom-poms ready for more Clintonites in 2016.
Deal.
You write the diary.
Was your favorite band ? Mark and the Mysterians?
Well, the opening line is ” It was a dark and stormy night ” How do you like it so far?
Please, accept my apologies.
Digital rants against Obama, alone will bring down the elites. Utopia is just around the corner.
Thank you for setting me straight.
With the changing demographics, the Republican Party might run Leatherface for President in 2016 to ensure the larger numbers voting for Democrats don’t stray to far from their financial masters.
Intended for # 119
“With the changing demographics, the Republican Party might run Leatherface for President in 2016 to ensure the larger numbers voting for Democrats don’t stray to far from their financial masters.”
Leatherface with Freddie Kruger as VP running mate.
It would be interesting to have a twenty year perspective on all this and see how it all turned out, but lacking that, I’m sure he’ll make his mark on history. I just wish it wasn’t so much by stepping on the little guy and supporting the uber rich clowns that caused this mess.
I really do believe that as we go through the next round of the economic crisis, that the decisions made by Obama and his economic team will look even more odious, even more short sighted, even more wrong.
Thanks for confirming Godwin’s law still applies. Godwin’s Law
Among other key factorsHitler got in because the Catholic Church and the elites were so scared of Stalin and the unions.
Give me a drop dead date. When is the diary going to be published at MyFDL chronicling your efforts since 1972?
And, you were expecting some thinly sliced, aged prosciutto with provolone and a nice Chianti/Fava bean side?
The day you choke on your own bullshit and it’s posted as a timely loss on FDL.
Very sorry to hear about your situation.
Unless you have rich relatives, it sounds as though you’re alive because of those thieving Dems and the infinitely corrupt Obama.
If your situation is as bad as you claim, and I have no reason to doubt you, your short term survival is dependent on local, state, and national Dems. They may not be in power in your state, but they are the only advocates you have.
Per masaccio above, the progressive wing of the Dem party is broken. Ron and Rand Paul are not coming to rescue you, but, we need them and their followers to do things like get pot legalized and end the occupations.
Does this mean no kiss?
You’re silly. But not in a good way. You’ve lost your direction in these fun forums for change. Remember who’s sponsoring and organizing these chatups. She’s friends with Woody Harrelson, for god’s sake! And, I was growin’ dope in the Midwest in 1974! Been smokin’ since ’68. Don’t even try to hustle a hustler!
“Very sorry to hear about your situation.”
No, you’re not–even now, you can’t keep the tone of smug, willfully dumb judgment out of your words. Nobody who’s working to cut Social Security and Medicare is my advocate, and neither my short- nor long-term survival depends on a bunch of lying weasels who call themselves Democrats but refuse to fight for the survival of the very program that defines the party.
Don’t work your horse into a lather for no reason, Tonto. He’s been playin’ bad cop for the hits’ parade. It’s all about the numbers. We’re all on your side. Trust me. wynota skunk
You’re not making any sense.
People who may be dependent on social programs (don’t know if Jon73 is or isn’t, none of my business)have a right to be critical of the Dems if the Dems are not acting as their advocates (such as the Se
It’s not my ironic levity. It seems to be actually how all politicians perceive their “base”. It’s political reality. So instead of merely complaining about it, we have to find a way to deal with it.
Ok, I’m thrilled you’re sick and poor.
/s
My point is the calvary isn’t coming over the hill to rescue you.
As much as anyone, your short term survival is in the hands of House Dems in heavy D+ districts, the progressive caucus to which masaccio referred above. All those folks are up for re-election in 2014. Ad rates and turnout are lower in mid-term primaries. It’s easier/less expensive for liberals and progressives to influence those elections, but it has to be a habit. It’s going to take at least a few election cycles to enforce the kind of discipline against the elites that we need.
At the national level, those heavy D+ districts may evolve into national third parties, green, labor…..
At the state and local level I see no alternative to the Dems.
No one is going to cut “Social Security.”
Given your situation, it’s important you understand that.
No one will “cut” it.
The elites and the duopoly want to “chain the CPI.” The CPI’s the consumer price index. It’s the mechanism by which your checks rise with inflation.
Both parties are running on not “cutting” Social Security.
It’s critical that you communicate this to others in your position and that all of you communicate that you understand it to your federal legislators.
My only point was we have seen the way the last 4 years were. I don’t expect things to change much. If people voted for him to turn into this progressive they will be disappointed.
As far as the tax issue is concerned if the taxes go up on the top 2% it’s really not that big of a deal for them as most of the wealth is by capital gains. I am willing to wait and see as Congress has to put forth the legislation, the only thing Obama can do is veto or sign it. The lesser of two evils is not a winning argument for me. The fact he would even offer to put the third rail on the budget table is a non starter for me. YMMV
Thanks for being respectful. :)
Are you familiar with Joel Salatin?
Obama had this problem in the midterm elections. Lots of Democratic candidates were distancing themselves from him and opposing health care reform for all the wrong reasons. They got spooked by the Tea Party in their districts, and they got beat by Tea Party candidates because they had cut the platform out from under themselves. We lost a lot of Blue Dogs in 2010. The most progressive losses were Alan Grayson and Tom Perriello. Even Russell Feingold self-destructed with his stand-offishness on several legislative issues. Heavy open participation by Obama under those circumstances could have increased the losses. It’s hard to gauge because the component of racism in certain Congressional races worked contrary to most conventional wisdom about mid-terms. In a lot of districts, it didn’t matter if you had voted against everything Obama had put on the table, you were still an N-L as far as the voters were concerned. (You know the South; you can figure the acronym.)
A fine essay ,and great title ,but several of the above comments were correct insofar as saying the dems are neither as smart or tough as the teabaggers,and that is the root of the problem .That’s not a dig at everyone who votes for a dem ,but the loyalists ,the neoliberal unions ,the hollywoodians ,the identity groups and others with a voice never extract any commitments before the election ,and notions of doing it now are just pitiful and indicative of the denial that betokens the dem mindset .
I hate to go Darwinian ,but the weak ,cowardly and stupid have never made the evolutionary cut ,and politics is just as brutal .Those hellfire puritans have an ugly and unpopular agenda ,so does Wall St. ,but they correctly see all politicos as mere vessels to advance their interests . Dems fall in love with some cult of personality and buy that hopey ,changy shit every time.
Obama ,as Clinton ,never needed to propose any commitments or clear-cut objectives because this moonie love just needs platitudes .Obama promised nothing to his base ,a progressive mandate is delusional .aand now we will be sliced and diced by austerity ,and very likely ,a VAT tax .There is no good DLC dem ,and everyone knows this ,so now the faith based politics of the cowardly and stupid gets its just deserts .Van Jones ,Trumka ,and Laura Flanders will be aligned with the lean-forward ilk peddling the same swill that the neoliberal left always peddles , and the swinish multitudes ,with blank-eyed adoration ,will be hooting “”go Hillary go “”
I know…and thanks ;) I just don’t want shouting bullies like Boo and TBogg to get too comfy with the notion that no one’s ever going to call them on their bullshit.
The Occupy movement is not dead. Michigan is having a Tahrir moment. Labor is now on notice that unless they seriously take to the streets and pull what clout they have, they are toast. It’s going to be another very interesting year.
With all that, the Congressional Progressive Caucus looks pretty irrelevant. Their constituents are already convinced. But what happens when conservative overrreach and the populist backlash to it starts altering the electoral map. If Democrats aren’t there with candidates, I hope that progressive and lefty third parties are. (Yes, it’s time for everyone to start fielding and vetting candidates for 2014.)
Ready
I have been calling and writing my Rep -Van Hollen- because Think Progress alerted me to this medicare age raise about 14 days ago. On the phone they assured me hechad drawn a line against it. I reiterated again Friday in writing, adding a link to the CNN expose about how the Justice department was not prosecuting a multi-million dollar Medicare fraud case just sitting there begging to be prosecuted.
The news tonight that Obama called the MSNBC hosts in to the WH makes my blood run cold. I am so furious -two more years of private health insurance premiums (I am self-employed) equal at least $24,000.00 to me, so the rich can pay 37% instead of 39.5%? The tea leaves (MSNBC especially) make this look like a done deal. And it costs more to the economy than it saves.
I also called AARP Friday night- just got some woman who wanted to sell me something. I will call agian tomorrow. What the heck are they doing besides running some amorphous ads? I have received no call to action from them.
“No one is going to cut ‘Social Security’.”
You’re delusional. And no need for the quotation marks: Social Security is a very real program, and Democrats are poised in a very real way to make deep cuts to benefits.
OK, saying that I’ve only gotten through reading about 35 of the comments, here is a link to a respected Wisconsin blogger relating to this thread. Well worth at least a glance. Steve Forbes is quoted.
Didn’t mean to imply that in any way.
My concern is that the elites are paying trolls to comment at FDL in a way that dilutes the energy we need to resist the most barbaric forces in government.
I grew up a Republican, so I have no problem with antipathy towards Dems and labor. In the absence of a third party, which the duopoly has helped insure, I see the national battleground as House Dems in heavy D+ districts. If they vote to cut the Social Safety net, we have to primary them in 2014.
At the state and local levels, we have to throw the GOP out.
All that takes work and organization. The elites have successfully exploited splits between labor and greens. We have to fight that.
Per the comment above, it makes sense to me that those heavy D+ districts evolve into the national green/labor party, while maintaining their Dem identity at the state and local levels. Right now, I see no alternative to supporting Dems in state and local races.
Well summarized Jon.
Keep calling. We need to be relentless like they are. Believe me I’m with you.
Just a little panicked are you. Focus on your own locality and state. That will be enough worry. There are lots of folks working their fannies off in Wisconsin and Michigan. If you are in either one of those states, get out and help them for a day. It will restore your perspective. If you have the ability to take the time off, go and help them.
Or just breathe deeply for ten minutes to clear your brain. Freaking out at what other people say in a blog thread is not good for your health, I hear. (My wife tells me that.)
I’m a retired attorney for what it’s worth.
If you filed back in April, I’m very surprised you haven’t gotten a bill yet from the IRS and the state. Unfortunately, I expect you will. If you get a bill you should call them to work out some payment plan. There are probably some failure to pay penalties included. It’s a longshot, and you might be able to negotiate some of those penalties, but you will not be able to get out of interest.
Tell them you are disabled and you have no funds. Won’t hurt and they might make a deal. In my experience the lower level IRS folks are generally pretty nice, but of course they have to follow orders.
Good luck.
It doesn’t sound like you have a very long life expectancy. I meant in your horizon, I think it’s very unlikely.
Sure, after they chain the CPI, at the next disaster, they may cut it some more. My point was that once they “chain the CPI,” your enemy becomes inflation. Given climate change, it’s obvious that food and commodity prices are headed north.
Have you ever thought about writing an FDL diary about your situation?
You’ve posted a graphic in your FDL profile, you clearly have some skills. Why not share those with the wider community? Tell your story.
Obama as “pragmatist”:
So Obama is walking along, and runs into a couple out in their front yard, fighting. He turned to one of the neighbors who is watching, and asks them what the story is. The neighbor tells them that the guy has made a regular habit of abusing his wife. He intimidates her with false accusations and emotional abuse and he controls the family finances in order to control her. Today, however, he’s physically abusing her. Obama walks up to the couple and asks if he can “mediate”. He asks what the man what he wants, and the man says he wants to kill his wife, to beat her until she’s dead. He asks the woman what she wants, and she says that she doesn’t want to be hurt at all. Obama puffs out his chest and says “I have the perfect solution. Sir, you may beat your wife until she is half-dead.” At that, he walks away with a smug, self-satisfied look on his face, certain that he has found a “pragmatic” solution.
Someone who can’t tell the difference between an honest difference of opinion and sociopathic behavior has no business being assistant manager of McDonald’s let alone President of the US.
NOW you withhold your vote? The Dems have been aligned with the Corporatists since at least Clinton. Obama’s 1st term was a study in how to betray the core of your supporters and give a few groups just enough to get re-elected (with the cooperation of the other side of the Uniparty) and NOW you see it?
No, but I’m familiar with the policies of Orville Freeman, Eugene Ford, John and Robert F. Kennedy, Harold Hughes, Tom Harkin, Albert Gore, Jr. The Daleys and Quinns, Lyndon Baynes Johnson, Jimmy Carter, Doc Coffee and his lovely wife, Eleanor, Tom Vilsack and his gutsy wife, etc, etc,. Also, knew Jimmy Reed, Muddy Waters, Hound Dog Taylor, Sonny Terry and Brownie McGee, Freddie and Albert King ( not related ), Bruce Mitchell and lots of writers who tried to edumacate me when I was a mere child. I also met Jesse Winchester, who liked Roosevelt because, ” he’s the poor man’s friend. ” Any other ??s I could go on but…
Jesse Winchester–the song “Biloxi”, hadn’t thought of that in years. Thanks for the reminder.
And the “Brand New Tennessee Waltz”
In response to #133.
X2 (For that and the entire excellent diary).
Sorry, got a phone call in the middle of writing this
You’re not making any sense.
Of course people who may be dependent on social programs (don’t know if Jon73 is or isn’t, none of my business)have every right to be critical of the Dems if the Dems are in fact not acting as their advocates (such as the Senator from IL right now, or, Obama in the past and possibly again as part of the Grand Bargain).
Thanks, firedupfirepup. I wish things didn’t seem quite so bleak.
No shit. That ” 3rd Rate Romance, Low Rent Rondevous ” stuff reminds me of the present day Democratic Party.
X10. In reading this comment I am, once again, in awe of the capacity of FDL contributors to so effectively elucidate the complex and obscure (deliberately obscured by the governing class).
I read masaccio’s reply to you at 97 with great interest.
Post-election, the “blame the Obama loyalists,” strikes me as trolling from the elites. The logic appears to be that they were willing to protest against Mitt, but their standards are too high and they will not stoop to putting out the same effort against Obama and the Dems.
IMHO, it does not rise to the level of an honest disagreement between well intentioned greens on one side and well intentioned labor on the other. That’s just one example of many fissures in the unity of the 99%.
Some of the folks on this thread will not even declare the core of the opposition to Obama/duopoly/elites. In my experience, since Jane enhanced the commenting, so you could read past comments, that’s frequently (but not always) a sign of a troll. Labor folks usually never miss a chance to bring up a labor issue. Greens usually never miss a chance to bring up XXL,….
Long time FDL’ers know that John Edwards was the last shot at relatively liberal/progressive POTUS. Once he dropped out of the Dem primary, we knew both HRC and Obama were corporate. Somehow, that’s gotten lost and folks can waltz in and pretend to be the first to figure out that Obama’s a pro-choice Republican.
Time to say, adios,amigos. The Packers are America’s Team. Fuck the Cowboys and the horses they rode in on!
Not sure what you mean by saying no one is going to cut SS. Here are the Bowles-Simpson recommendations.
Also, Obama has frequently invoked the “compromise” Reagan and Tip O’Neill made in 1983, which resulted in a 19% cut in benefits.
Everyone should be concerned and voicing their concerns about this. Now. Not after it happens.
Also, I don’t understand what makes you think people who disapprove of Obama necessarily aren’t voting for, or working with, Dems at a state or local level. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.
And, since I’m playing catch-up on this thread: When I make a donation to FDL I take into account that some people here can’t afford to donate, and throw in a little extra. I’m sure I’m not the only one who does that. Someone earlier in the thread supports a membership for someone else, and I think others probably do the same. I find your badgering on this subject offensive.
LINK for 1983 benefit cuts:
http://www.nasi.org/press/releases/2011/06/press-release-new-study-finds-changes-already-enacted-wil
This. marym’s got it exactly right.
Yahoo!
I think you have got it backwards. Pre-election here, it was the “elites” (DNC Party hacks) who castigated the Anti-ObamaBots.
Now you are saying the Anti-ObamaBots ARE the elites? I think you are the one sowing dissention/confusion.
It’s semantics. The duopoly will tell all the low-information-voters that they will not “cut,” Social Security. It’s up to FDLers to get the truth out, as best we can. David Dayen’s chain the cpu
Oh, yeah, how did they miss this?
Is not donating $20 a month to FDL immoral?
How did they miss this one?
Should we file, but not pay our federal income taxes??
Please link to just one pre-election thread where Shoq all his Obama-bots overran FDL. I must have missed them all.
At the moment the program in peril is Medicare. While Iagree the threat to chain the CPI to determine SS is real, the current focus is Medicare, where it looks like any minute we are going to get a grand bargain announcement in which the eligibility age will be raised to 67 starting in 2014 in exchange for top rates going to 37%.
Not sure why you are focusing today on SS.
If you can grow stuff, I hope you consider posting a diary about it. Lots of gardeners, urban gardeners, wannabe gardners here. Toby has done a lot of excellent ones. You don’t have to be as accomplished as her to post something…….
Frankly, I don’t understand your point.
I never said the Dim Obot hacks overran FDL pre-election. Nor did my statement depend upon that being true.
I said the anti-Obots were castigated by the Dem loyalists, who (the Dim loyalists, that is) represent the elites.
You failed to address my points and also took time out your busy schedule of counting money to misrepresent what I said by falsely attributing ideas to me. You are a dishonest broker.
You fooled me again! But it seems to me that the one thing leads to the other thing.
Again, you fail to address my stated, actual point, preferring to bring up something not germane (although it is German — which is unusually close to relevancy for you).
Set me straight.
Thank you for bringing up the top marginal tax rates on the 1%.
As you know, from 1951 – 1964, the top MARGINAL rate on the 1% was 94%.
Top Marginal Tax rates 1916 – 2011
NOTHING ever “trickled down.” They just used tax breaks after 1964 to buy both parties and the media.
IMHO, the importance of defunding the 1%/elites in the US and around the world cannot be overstated.
Marginal Tax Rates On The 1% Were North of 90% During Eisenhower’s Administrations
I worked on the Obama campaign and was one of 3 staffers devoted to Netroots outreach. We absolutely reached out to bloggers including FDL, and the campaign very much cared about their input. In addition to 1 to 1 calls we held weekly calls for bloggers and online influencers. Whatever your criticisms of the current Administration he has a blog outreach person on staff at the White House in addition to us. They’re paying attention.
Thanks for all your work in Wisconsin. I also appreciate you commenting under your own name.
With all due respect to you, last night’s SNL opening skit really captured it. Obama’s doing just what he did in his first term, negotiating with himself. This is clearly the WH’s trial balloon Jon Chait’s Miserable Endorsement of Raising the Medicare Eligibility Age
IMHO the only hope of libs/progs are Dems in heavy D+ districts, such as Mark Pocan. Per masaccio above, there is very little optimism. It’s those districts imho that are also the most fertile ground for a national third party, which could pull Dems away from the far, far right.
I have great respect for the work Chris Liebenthal does at CogDis and I know his respect and admiration for you. Hope we can win back the state Supreme Court on 2 April 2013.
The venom aimed at POTUS in this thread is imho an excellent example of what an excellent shield he provides for elites from the bases of both parties. The WH doesn’t appear to be “getting that.”
If the House progressive caucus would use the “fiscal cliff,” debt ceiling circus as a platform from which to talk about returning to the 94% top MARGINAL rate on the 1%, it would allow POTUS a lot more room to operate. #willnotholdmybreath
Thank you, though I give credit to WI bloggers and activists. I just helped connect folks and amplify. Also I share your respect and admiration for Capper, who is amazing.
I don’t work for OFA anymore and I don’t work for the Administration, so not really here to argue the bulk of this post. I just wanted to clarify that the campaign absolutely paid attention to the Netroots and I expect that to continue. And we never shied away from discussing policy differences, which I’m particularly proud of.
Appreciate the response.
Really?
Then why aren’t the Wall Street financial terrorists in Guantanamo?
Why are they visiting the White House and demanding entitlement cuts on national TV?
More like laughing at us rather then listening.
Because the serfs have no power? Or do they?
Anyone who knows anything about American military history has figured out your nom de plume in regards to FDL. Sandbagger that you are!
Boo, you’re full of pooh!
I must have missed the e-mail.
Purposeless pragmatist. Our first existentialist president. Seems to fit.
skunk, are you defending the elites? Please be more specific.
What in that comment did you not like?
When did Harper Lee enlist?
MRyan, you’re probably aware of this, but in the unlikely case that you’re not, my sense is that after the Affordable Care ACT, FDL was considered separate from Net Roots. At the beginning of the health care debate, Jane got pummeled for asking FDLers to ask their reps for a “pledge,” that they would not vote for any health care reform that did not AT LEAST include a public option.
You would have thought Jane was Herbert Hoover. Everyone erupted at her and said she was selling out single-payer, Medicare-for-all. Jane cooly asked them to read the pledge. In no way was it diluting support for single-payer, it was simply acknowledging that the votes for it were not there. Jane got pillaged. Then we lost single payer, so suddenly, the only thing standing in the way of a complete elitist victory is that FDL pledge. Virtually all those people who had attacked Jane for asking for too little in her pledge, the public option, were suddenly screaming at her for refusing to budge on it. Jane never budged, never caved to the WH. Not sure about Aravois. Digby caved. Krugman caved, Kos caved, MoveOn caved, Big Labor caved……
Jane was also right about the damage the “mandate” would do, but that’s another story.
I’m no expert on where FDL stands, or where it stand vis-a-vis Netroots.
But that battle is one reason I’m so adamant about supporting FDL.
Apologies if this was a waste of your time.
People need to abandon the idea of “party” loyalty yesterday. Loyalty should be limited to the “ideas” that parties are supposed to embody and once the “party” starts abandoning those its time to consider that they may have outlived their usefulness.
If he is pragmatic and has no plan then here is a plan I’d like:
1. With good reason we could make work optional and reduce the stigma for not working. Due to automation and other forces most work in America either lacks necessity or is counter productive. Most work in America is done under such extreme stress that its driving family dysfunction. The best way to change both oppressive employer behavior and wages may be to make work optional and radically raise the minimum wage and then index it to inflation. For those who choose not to work more can be paid for living healthier lifestyles and for education. To do these would likely require shifting off GDP to quality of life indicators and we’d probably have to crank up progressive taxation (dissuade rent-seeking etc.) and heavily tax capital flight.
2. We might also end the production oriented class rooms that lead to busy work lives.
3. While we are at it we might get an information system that works.
It might be possible to use the public and public university library system to provide a raw public information system. We get rid of the sponsor’s filter because sponsorship especially mass aggregate sponsorship over time is ultimately pervasive and defacto censorship. We could do a reboot of the public internet, not to replace the existing internet but to provide something more like the public highways system.
In particular this means public search which is ad free. This would entail not allowing the canalizing of attention in the interfaces (total end user control with default opt in,) it would be honest search (not Google’s RIAA optimized SEO or spam search.) There might be a ticker system that would indicate what people are looking at in a firewalled privacy protected way, this would be what is gathering the popular focus and it’s a replacement for news- vastly superior to the propaganda known as news. This is a system to get rid of the money, sponsor, business first society.
Aha!
TBogg received the memo, masaccio, which he later passed along in the form of a comment, ostensibly about his blog, but applicable, one may well consider, to FDL and to the larger political “process” as well … it read, “This is not a democracy it is a business.”
Therein lies the pragmatic “efficiency” and fundamental admonition of “our” times …
;~DW
I can’t speak for anyone else but I’ve known Jane for years, have been a member of FDL in the past (think my membership has lapsed, sorry about that!) and we had at least 2 FDL contributors on our blog lists. No one ever told me not to reach out to FDL or that they were banned. And I would have pushed back hard if anyone had.
I don’t agree with FDL’s position on every part of the ACA (and my boss at the time found himself on the other side of FDL voting for the bill) but I’m not interested in cutting people out of the conversation, even when I don’t personally agree. And FWIW, the Obama campaign wasn’t either. Again, I can’t speak for the White House or the next incarnation of OFA. I can only tell you that the campaign took the blogs seriously, including FDL.
Sorry about that. I reached out to FDL about who should be added to our lists. Feel free to put the blame on me for the exclusion.
Very interesting comments, these last two of yours, Melissa.
@ 196, you imply that you (and presumably, Barack Obama) would like to have heard from everyone, to have considered what everyone’s concerns and questions might be. Is that correct?
Then, @ 197, you state, “…I reached out to FDL about who should be added to our lists.”
The first one seems “inclusive” while the other appears “exclusive”.
Might you wish to clarify this a bit?
The real issue, here and now, by the way, in NOT about “blame”, but rather about the NEED, in a democracy, of people being heard, about people, many people, having the opportunity to effectively voice concerns and raise reasonable and legitimate questions, about the actual consent of an honestly INFORMED citizenry, not one talked “down” to and held off at arm’s length by secret dealings and appeals to National Security, regarding “things” done in the name of the people, such as the use of drone warfare, for one example, or being frightened by untruths about the national economy being “just like” a family’s household finances, as another.
Please, do not rush in to accept “blame”, instead consider what is actually being said; consider the concerns and genuine human needs going unmet and being, too often, deliberately ignored.
Is that possible?
Or is it too late or wholly unreasonable to expect such a thing of the current political class in this nation and, specifically, of Barack Obama?
I am most curious as to how you might respond to these questions, Melissa and “hope” that you might, at least, consider them … looking forward.
DW