One other thing, and I’m serious about this: consider some sort of identification, a kind of marker, that lets others of your kind know who you are and where you stand implicitly. Get over your aversion to tattoos; a small “live free or die” or “don’t tread on me” somewhere on your person might just one day save you…
Because make no mistake. They’ll be coming. They have to. It’s just a matter of how long it takes before the revolution starts and the country divides into factions.
Which is amusingly paranoid, but not entirely different from this:
… voting third party or even just honestly portraying Obama’s policy architecture is a good way to identify to ourselves and each other who actually has the integrity to not cave to bullying. Then the task starting after the election is to build this network of organized people with intellectual and political integrity into a group who understands how to move the levers of power across industry, government, media and politics. We need to put ourselves into the position to be able to run the government.
After all, if a political revolution came tomorrow, could those who believe in social justice and climate change actually govern?
The latter is from Matt Stoller’s “The Progressive Case Against Obama,” which appeared in Salon a couple weeks ago. I’d like to think that now, with the election having passed and emotions beginning to cool, that we won’t see much more of this nuclear-winter survivalist tone from either side of the political spectrum.
The Stoller example, although far less extreme, is more pertinent here since this blog (and its comments sections) has seen more than its share of fighting over whether Barack Obama is merely disappointingly centrist or some kind of political Antichrist sent to destroy the progressive movement. Last week, Stoller referred to those from the left hoping to “hold Obama accountable after working to reelect him” as “loser liberals” — a sentiment at least partially shared by David Dayen here in writing about organized labor’s post-election lobbying efforts.
Now, I’m more of an armchair analyst than an activist, but this doesn’t make sense to me. Regardless of who did or didn’t vote for him, Obama is the president… and lobbying him (and the equally unreliable Democrats in Congress) is the only game in town when it comes to influencing legislation.
Are Stoller and those who share his beliefs going to stew in a funk of self-pity and stop trying to pressure Obama? If not, what’s the point in quibbling whether people who are pushing for the same goals as you are sufficiently pure? A focus on castigating and excommunicating infidels doesn’t seem to me like any way to build a progressive majority, which I presume is the goal, rather than mere hipster-leftist posturing.
What does seem helpful in the long term is what Obama demonstrated through his successful re-election campaign: the existence of, guess what, a durable progressive-friendly majority like that foreseen by Ruy Teixeira and John Judis a decade ago. Had Romney won, no one would be talking about that, but instead it’s being quickly accepted as an established fact.
Now, you might say, those voters were duped — the president they voted for doesn’t really share their goals, and will betray them in the months to come. Even so, the goal for 2016 should be clear… namely, to nominate and elect someone who is worthy of progressive support, because it’s a philosophy that can win. And that should be the case no matter who you voted for this past Tuesday.



75 Comments





Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Uh-oh! You’re in trouble now.
The swarm should hit in 5…4…3…2…1…
Do you know what you have done? O man.
Ladies and gentlemen, Swopa has gone nuclear.
Oh, come on. TBogg has dozens of posts more provocative than this. :)
I’m just saying that after all the accusations that voting/not voting for Obama is an awful betrayal of the progressive cause… the day after the election, it doesn’t matter anymore.
Not disagreeing, just anticipating some purity troll head explosions.
Lessee… one writer declares that apocalypse is imminent.
The other writer emphasizes building a movement, just as any party would have to, just as the components of the current duopoly built their movements… and points up that argument by asking the rhetorical question of “would the movement be ready tomorrow if it was called on to lead?”
And after so many comments here at FDL to the effect of “WILL YOU GUYS WORK ON BUILDING YOUR MOVEMENT AFTER THE ELECTION, HUH? WILL YOU!!1!!“… well, here is Stoller saying that the alternative parties need to do exactly that.
So… false equivalate much?
And sorry, PW, but I don’t think the 3rd Party Collective Hive Mind will find this erroneous effort worth even perambulating over here, much less swarming.
Swopa!
TBogg is not primarily posting at the mothership, so it is rather an open invitation to the purity trolls. On the other hand, some of us here agree with you.
Swopa is so right about this. I remember the frustration of Martin Luther King when Kennedy wouldn’t press for voting rights in his first term, politically aware that doing so would deny him a second. Kennedy, as with most presidents in first term, eschewed controversial positions, believing the freedom to do great things could only come when the weight of future campaigns was no more.
I expect Obama will amaze all of us in a good way soon. Afterall, he has nothing to lose now….
I hardly think Stoller offers a realistic blueprint for action. Movement conservatism, on the other hand, does. It would be far easier to take over the
Democratic Party, building on the Progressive friendly base Swopa mentions, than to start a viable third party from scratch. Either way, you are looking at a decades long enterprise.
Well, thank you. Loser Liberal, Dupe, I’ve heard it all here the last few months. The gang of ideological purists who have roundly damned any who didn’t join the 0.36% who cast their ballots for Jill Stein, are increasingly trumpeting their moral and intellectual superiority since they didn’t vote for Obomba. I do wonder how an amazing percentage of the electorate thinks they have changed anything for the 99.64% of us whom they consider idiots, heretics, or “dimocrats”.
Frankly, I hesitate to go to My FDL any more, since the “Right Column” folks seem to actively dislike or snottily condescend to anyone who isn’t in lockstep with the third party people, which unfortunately appears to include the majority of the long time folks here.
I think you want to lay off celebrating the legalization victories in Colorado and Washington. That bears no resemblance to anything Swopa actually said.
jeezis all this traffic might shut down the server
I certainly derive great glee in electing the first Buddhist to the Senate, and, the first Hindu to either House, and they’re both female…! That should implode a few Gooper’s heads…! ;-)
8-)
Not to mention the first openly gay (lesbian actually) Senator.
… and then there’s us, the poor deluded souls who believe that you will be truly amazed… amazed as Obama cripples the safety net and leaves it for the elites to finish off.
… poor pitiful us, who’ve been right about Obama’s actions in this regard rather more often than the optimists…
I just heard about that today. Believe me, they’re welcome as far as I’m concerned. Wonder how long it’ll be before Michele Bachmann goes on the warpath, though…
Building anything from the existing party has worked so damn well for us thus far. I’ve thought that it was an eventually winning strategy since 68. It’s worked really well for us so far. Of course, it has only been five decades.
I’m sure Obama will do a bunch of things he’s never done in his entire life, after his promises in the election run-up to pursue the Grand Bargain and after all his work on the Trans-Pacific Partnership.
No, wait…
You are indeed correct here. The people who thought we should demand something from Obama by withholding our votes from him have lost the political struggle, and by a wide margin. We now await the results, with a focus upon adapting to them (whatever they may be).
You’ve been trying to do this for how long now? And with what results?
Well, I for one would like to thank you, Swopa, for a drop of reality within a sea of insanity. There sure have been some purity trolls around, and I’m just thanking my lucky stars we’re not talking about how red the Senate turned and how Mrs. Romney will decorate the family residence in the White House! Now instead, we are talking about Senator Elizabeth Warren. Way kool!
Having been around and aware since 1968, let me just say that nobody on the left has ever made the kind of sustained and focused effort that Movement Conservatives did. We have been to busy with fever dreams of establishing the utopian anarchist commune third party, which never even gets off the ground.
Answered at 22.
Really? I can tell you from my own experience as a Green Party activist that damned few people have done any actual work on such “fever dreams.” Is there some other party I’ve not yet heard of (outside of the Democrats of course) that have preoccupied such “fever dreams” “on the left”?
Frankly, I hesitate to go to My FDL any more, since the “Right Column” folks seem to actively dislike or snottily condescend to anyone who isn’t in lockstep with the third party people, which unfortunately appears to include the majority of the long time folks here.
That’s sad, nonplussed, tho I’m a Jill Stein fan, I certainly don’t begrudge anyone for voting for Obama, or even the Mittster, it’s your own vote/choice, period…! I’m certainly glad it’s all over and we can now direct our attention to the actual issues…!
You do realize that you just confirmed my statement? I did not say that anybody had done any actual work, just that they were consumed with fever dreams. The Green Party is a classic example, as they do not even have a functioning organization in all fifty states and are only on the ballot in a minority. Nobody wants to do the hard drudge work of actually building a working infrastructure or gives up when they do not immediately win it all.
This is the important point. Politics is the art of compromise and we need to actually get things done. I am not fond of Obama, and never had any illusions that he was anything other than a corporate friendly centrist (he did turn out to be a bit further to the right and friendlier to corporations than I initially thought), but I voted for him as the best viable choice. Now we need to try to exert pressure on him, as Swopa says, to enact the most progressive policies possible. While I do not expect miracles, lame duck presidents are in fact more amenable to such pressure.
I by no means confirmed any statement of yours, so it’s really up to you to confirm your own statements.
Maybe there is this big bloc of “liberals” who have some “fever dream” of establishing a third party (but who just sit on their butts and don’t do anything about it). And maybe not. I have no idea how you’d prove it either way. Perhaps you could read their minds for us (assuming, that is, that you’re a telepath) and then show us what they’re thinking?
I think it’s pretty obvious that the vast majority of “liberals” have actually DONE in support of their beliefs — all of that work has gone into supporting Democrats, or perhaps also for state ballot propositions. Maybe a few “liberals” have actually done something for the Green Party, and maybe a few more when Ralph Nader was buying them lunches back in 2000. But that’s it.
Btw, you still haven’t answered my question. You appear to believe that it would be relatively easy for the “liberals” to take over the Democratic Party. Is there this great mass of “fever dreamers” out there among the public that hovers around like dark matter in outer space, and once they give up their “fever dreams” and become loyal Democrats they will suddenly put the reincarnation of George McGovern in the White House?
What CTuttle said… I tried to avoid posting anything like this before the election, because if someone’s conscience wouldn’t let them vote for Obama, I really didn’t want to argue with them — and if that group was large enough that Obama lost, that was his fault, not anyone else’s.
But the election’s over, so Obama is the only president available to lobby… and he won’t be on the ballot in 2016, so “supporting” him is no longer relevant. So nothing should be dividing progressives at this point.
Dr. D., whatever happened to Howard Dean’s 50 State Strategy, that was so promising…? I worked on both Dean’s and Stein’s and they were both as viable, but, Dean had a lot more dollars to work with in his big effort…!
Is there anything progressives could really do to cause Barack Obama to pay attention to them? Why should he even bother with progressives?
I agree. It’s done – over. Let’s enjoy a bit of whacking Republicans and then find effective ways to pressure
Obama into doing the things we want.
Do you really believe that anyone but another corporatist will be nominated by either major political party next time?
As far as not pressuring Obama, why on earth should Obama alone, of all the Presidents who have preceded him, be free of pressure, be it from within his own party or from outside his own party?
ok!
Did you even bother to read what I wrote on the subject? In my initial post on this I said, “Either way, you are looking at a decades long enterprise.” Given the realities of our two party system, it is easier to take over the existing infrastructure than to create it from scratch. You have to have campaign organizations in every state, groom candidates, establish a funding stream. The Movement Conservatives understood that it is easier to subvert the existing structure than it is to create an new one. That means you have to start at the local level, electing people to school boards and city councils, then moving up to state legislatures, and statewide offices. Most of you want to go straight to the Presidency without any kind of infrastructural support in place.
That said, the Green Party is a joke and you do not even do the basic organizational work necessary to be taken seriously. You may do the hard work, but most Green Party supporters and the rest of the utopian purity trolls have no interest in investing most of their lives to building a viable organization and infrastructure. You are the fever dreamers until you get serious about building viable local level organizations at the national level.
Stein was not viable because she did not have a 50 state organization and was not even on the ballot in most. I agree about the Dean 50 state model, but too many in the party hierarchy want centralized control.
Well said!
Yes, fine. The Green Party is five people in a room, and you are right to heap abuse upon them for being five people in a room. Carry on, if you think that continuing in that vein is worth your time.
But that’s not all of what you said, and in that respect it appears that I read you better than you did.
What you said was:
“The left” in America, we might well assume, is FAR, FAR MORE than five people in a room. I have been arguing, AGAINST the above statement, that MOST of “the left” has NOT “been to (sic) busy with fever dreams of establishing the utopian anarchist commune third party,” but rather has largely channeled its energies into the Democratic Party.
So where’s your rejoinder?
Very well said, indeed !
Now sit back and watch your words get twisted…
From up here in Canuckistan, I’d say Congress has a more progressive slant than in ’06, when Pelosi had the gavel.
We have momentum, now we must keep pushing for our ideals and increase our numbers in ’14 & ’16…
As for me, Petrocelli, I agree with what DrDick said in comments #35 and #36. My disagreement with DrDick is outlined in comment #38.
Where is that “sustained effort” I mentioned? Nobody has done the hard work to transform the Democratic Party. Nowhere to be seen elsewhere either, especially in the Green Party. Your reading comprehension is virtually nonexistent, as are your chances of ever having a political impact. Just to be clear, I also embraced the third party delusion in my youth. I voted for Fred Harris in ’76 and John Anderson in ’80 and then I realized that I was completely ignored by the political establishment, as you and the rest of the purity wankers are. Until you are on the ballot in all 50 states, have a campaign office in every major city and town in every state, and are running ads in every media market in the country, you are just jacking off in the corner and nobody is paying any attention to you.
Then your beef is with those who have stuck with the Democratic Party, the VAST MAJORITY of liberals and progressives, over the past forty years. THEY are the ones who have failed to transform the Democratic Party.
But, hey, continue to rail against the tiny minority of third party advocates in America, if that’s what trips your trigger. All they’re really trying to do is to give America an option, should voting Democrat be an unsavory option at any point in time. And there are way too few of them, so of course they have no national organization of locals. They have no resources. Go ahead, find them on http://pml.cq.com/ or http://www.opensecrets.org/ or the FEC’s homepage. You won’t see a lot there.
There are three meaningful Green Party state organizations in the whole of the US: the Green Party of California, the Green Party of Illinois, and the Green Party of New York State. How precisely are they to “go nationwide” without spreading themselves too thin, and on practically no resources to boot?
And one last thing:
How do you expect me to respond to this comment: “Of course I’m an idiot. Thank you for pointing this out! I had no idea, but now I see the light! All hail DrDick!” Was that what you expected from me?
No, my beef is with all you assholes who will not do the hard work to actually change the system and then berate those of us who are willing to accept less than perfect outcomes. I long ago acknowledged that I am not willing to dedicate my entire life to that project and am willing therefore to accept less than perfect outcomes. Anyone else who is not willing to dedicate their entire life to transforming the system, but will not accept compromise needs to shut the fuck up. All they are doing is engaging in ideological onanism which has no impact on anything. Unless you are willing to expand your network beyond those three states, you are simply jacking off in the corner and I, along with everyone else will continue to ignore you. You are not more moral or principled, just more useless. I say that even though I am more ideologically attuned to the Green Party agenda than to the two major parties. Results, not ideological purity, matter.
My grandmother had a saying about hope: “hope in one hand and shit in the other and see which fills up first.” Those of you who voted for Obama will have enough for a nice sandwich within a month or so. I would love to have photos of all of the frowny faces you chumps will have when Pres. Sanstesticles loses another game of chicken with Agent Orange.
No, I expect you to continue to be a self-righteous and totally ineffective asshole. I do not give a shit who you vote for as that is your business, but you need to shut the fuck up with berating those of us who are realists and accept compromise or else actually do something to make a change (every major town in every state).
Keep on wanking, asshat. Romney is soooo much more awesome.
All LOTE all the time. BTW I have a PhD. and can call myself “Dr.” if I wish but don’t, but am extremely offended that a sycophant such as yourself uses that title.
Fuck you, too. What the fuck does LOTE even mean? DrDick is a nickname given me by by my nonacademic friends and a bit of self-deprecating humor, but I would not expect a self-righteous, pompous asshole like you to understand such subtlety. My point is that we had exactly two choices for president, Obama and Romney. If you deluded yourself into thinking otherwise, it raises questions about the intellectual standards of your alma mater.
LOL, I taught US National Government for several years when I was starting out, no one is going to lecture me on the SMSP system.
No, we had the choice of not voting for either of those two cretinous fools, of saying that conservative technocrats don’t share our values and won’t be getting our votes, that if a party on the left wants our votes they need to behave like a party on the left. If enough of us were to do that we might have a left party here, instead of Mitt Romney running against a reincarnation of his father.
.
And exactly what chance did anyone else have of being elected? If you are a political scientist, you are grotesquely incompetent. Voting for anybody other than the Democrat or the Republican has absolutely no impact on the political process, since none of them have garnered even 15% of the vote since WWII and none have had any impact on the political agenda. I have said upthread what you need to do to make an actual change, but all you asshats what instant gratification.
That is the most reasonable thing you have said all night.
Why don’t you do an internet search on Ross Perot and why Bill Clinton made the deficit a priority (in surplus by the end of his eight years).
[*gratuitous insult/expletive removed by moderator*]
LOTE is an acronym for “Lessor Of Two Evils”. Also, in my state there were three more presidential candidates in addition to the two major evil ones.I voted for the Green one, Jill Stein. It will take time, but third party alternatives to the corporate owned conservative Democrats & Republicans will not grow if the rest of you “asshats” keep voting-in sweet-talking “liberal” frauds like Obama.
The main problem with the Democratic Party can be broken down like this:
1) The “Team Blue” mentality. For the few months every other year in which there is no major election on the immediate horizon, you do have organized “progressives” in the Party. However, most of them come in just two flavors: Faux Prog and Spineless Simpering Fool. Both flavors have this in common: an al-encompassing fear of the Republican Party.
The Faux Progs are really smug, entitled establishment assholes who don’t want to admit that’s what they are until they are at least 40. You can tell them apart from other kinds of activists because they are, at heart, bullies. They talk all about “respect” and “inclusion,” until you start to question Party hierarchy . . . then they start to call you names, claim you just sit at home on your computer all day while they do ‘actual work’ and regurgitate Party talking points until you either agree or just give up hope of a rational dialogue and go away.
The Spineless Simpering Fools are the people who actually do have progressive values but cave to the bullies every single fucking time in the hope that, someday, a movement will emerge like magic where nobody in the group says anything mean to the other people in the group. Generation after generation goes by with them never taking time to realize the Faux Progs become the fucking Party leadership every fucking time because they never actual stand up and fight.
Both of them are basically motivated by an all encompassing fear of the GOP. The Faux Progs use it as a pretext for putting aside their silly liberal ideas to ‘get things done’ and the SSFs buy that line of reasoning.
2) OFA now has an iron grip on the national Party infrastructure. Meaning that they will be the one choosing the next nominee, unless the base actually stands up and demands that they leave. Good luck to you if you think that’s going to happen.
Honestly, I think the best way to pressure the Democratic Party to change is not from within due to those two things–notice how groups like DFA ALWAYS back the Party elite, even though their stated mission is to challenge those people?–the way to change them is to do what third party activists do and create places for them to go. It’s not useless. If it were, the establishment wouldn’t have spent Bush’s entire first term crucifying Nader. Nader frightened them because progs actually broke with the Party in small yet statistically significant numbers. You have to nip that shit in the bud. (A ‘weed can become a tree’ and all that.)
Given that, yes, this election shows the demographics are irreversibly on the side of a progressive movement, I think it would be worthwhile to go and help the Green party build infrastructure that isn’t laughable–which they are actually now starting to do, Stein actually had ballot access in most states and was denied matching funds she qualified for in violation of law.
The other thing I’d do is join the Republican Party. In states in which they are dead, like California, I don’t think that’s a laughable proposition. You can let the crazy teabaggers have the handful of rural counties that are still reliably Republican. If you think a local Party in a major city is going to turn away activists that aren’t on Medicare yet, I think you’re wrong.
“Anyone else who is not willing to dedicate their entire life to transforming the system, but will not accept compromise needs to shut the fuck up.”
Actually, no. No one needs to shut the fuck up.
Not even you.
You take the system and its hegemony over you for granted, even as a good. You write as if one in five children weren’t going to bed hungry each night. As if the opening years of this new depression hadn’t hit the poor countries harder than the first one. As if there weren’t three guns for every one American, liberals having none of them–a war already raging and gun death every twenty minutes. As if you had electricity, while my mother has had it for 1 day in the last two weeks in New Jersey. As if police violence against the poor weren’t the program and the plan since Reconstruction. As if 65% of black males weren’t doing time in prison. In other words, from within the comfortable vaccuum of your own middle class bell jar. Hoping for some middle class good manners from everyone now that the little tussle is over. Gentlemen, retire to your chambers!
The next four years will be a test of our various “theories of Obama.”
For some reason, the precise political nature of the President has always been a subject of debate. Obama is variously seen as a great progressive President (stop laughing; some folks at HuffPo really believe that; or say they believe that), a wimpy centrist, a Blue Dog, an agent hired by the Republican Party to make the Democrats look like jerks, etc.
I will disregard the right-wing versions of Obama, in which he is some kind of foreign Muslim socialist commie Stalinist.
My theory is of the “Obama is an unmitigated disaster” school of thought. I’ve been warning against Obama from the get-go.
My hypothesis is simple: Barack Obama is a neocon posing as a centrist Democrat. I believe this best explains his bizarre Presidency so far.
It also explains why, after four years of Obama, we live in neocon paradise.
The Age of Obama is neocon heaven. We have a neocon healthcare law, a neocon foreign policy, a neocon attack on the environment, neocon deficits, endless assaults on human rights, neocon tax breaks for the rich, neocon levels of poverty and inequality, etc., etc., etc. All this when the Democrats were presumably in control. The best explanation, it seems to me, is that the President is a neocon.
Like all theories, mine makes predictions. It predicts that, cut free from the bonds of electoral necessity, Obama will become a rampaging, ripsnorting, super-duper neocon on steroids. Time will prove me a seer or a fool–and I hasten to say I sincerely hope the theory is wrong.
Is It Bad for your Karma to Vote for Obama?
Perry Logan. I think you hit the nail on the head. I don’t want to believe it, but that matters not.
Obama’s Neocon Record stands as evidence for what is about to come. It isn’t good.
Firstly, We know that Obama seeks a Grand Bargain intending to cut The Social Safety Net.
We know that Keystone is on.
Obama loves Charter Schools and Vouchers.
O Loves Tax Cuts.
O Loves Big Oil.
Who asks, which Party gets to be the whore for lobbyists and special interests like Big Oil, Mining, Timber, etc?
Actually she WAS on the ballot in most states. Unless by most you mean ALL. In which case she was at a disadvantage since unlike Barack Obama she had to fight for her place on the ballot in each of the states.
Yes, but it’s not about POSING. Clinton and Blair were much more persuasive exponents of neoliberalism than Reagan and Thatcher, the Puritan scolds. It’s not like the Obama model is sui generis. We just get duped over and over because we want to stay in our safe middle class environments rather than get out and fight a system in which profit–the numeric episteme, the cash nexus–is predictably and inevitably more and more the heart of human life. And middle class Americans are now the thin thread–in their miserable denial–holding up the whole ball of wax.
This site has its value, but it is far from the hard reality of most of humanity, doesn’t even bother to interest itself much in the plight of Black men, for example, the militarization of African and everywhere else on which our tenuous remaining prosperity is predicated. That’s Obama’s business, the real business; gay rights is, in this way, a convenient side show, making us fight for the simplest rights that should go without question. The whole world, the Third World, the nonwhite world on whose bloody shoulders the US has sat for a century and a half is completely hidden here, as if this were any other suburb.
It matters. It’ll matter for the next 4 years. The problem seems to be this assumption that after the lever has been tallied and the votes counted that somehow or another things don’t matter. They do.
That being said, I’m looking forward to reminding the “pragmatic realists” that what they get is going to be what they voted for. They voted to continue and allow the Democrats to use and abuse them. It was their CHOICE.
Thank you! I’m glad someone said it. I was wondering if they’d cancelled the 1st amendment or something.
Remind me again which candidate actually got on the ballot automatically?
if anything it’s the establishment party people that are afraid of the hard work involved with creating a block from scratch to actually impact politics. Instead they’d rather just tinker with the system in place over and over and over.
Did you read the first nine posts on the thread before posting?
If so, then it does not seem you have a problem with the behaviors you attribute to the left.
Awwwww c’mon you mean purity troll and hipster leftist posturing aren’t compliments?
Who could have ever imagined? ;)
I’m pretty sure both sides are talking past each other at this point. I’m equally sure that if the people who voted for Obama can’t actually push him to the left as they insisted they could they’ll lose another percentage point or two of voters.
Well said!
Oddly I could find no reference on either Google or JSTOR (admittedly I only went through the first 2-3 pages of results) to Perot having any impact other than splitting the Republican vote and throwing the election to Clinton or possibly focusing more attention on the economy during the campaign. Clinton was a center right DLC Democrat who balanced the budget largely by raising taxes, definitely not on Perot’s agenda. There is no evidence of any other influence Perot might have had, certainly not on NAFTA which he rabidly opposed and Clinton ramrodded through Congress.
Third parties can, and have, affect public policy, but none have done so since WW II. Those which were effective had strong, broad based grassroots organizations and most of their electoral accomplishments were at the local and state level, seldom or never electing anyone to national office. The various socialist and populist parties of the late 19th and early 20th centuries are a good example. It was that broad based local support that gave them their influence. Even then, it was more the critical mass of such parties, of which there were many, rather than the actual strength of any given party that had the greatest impact. None of the modern third parties have that.
You will not grow or have much impact until you start seriously organizing at the grassroots level nationwide and electing people to local and state offices. When you have that, I might vote for the Green Party candidates, certainly at the local and state level.
I am sorry if you thought Obama was the great progressive savior and were disillusioned when you found out he was just another DLC corporatist, but those of us who were paying attention knew that was what he was all along. He was and is still vastly better than the other viable option.
You’re an idiot, I found this in a two-second search on ixquick (I won’t use google). Any middle of the road textbook used in any introductory US Gov course discusses how minor parties that get any attention at all always force the major parties closer to their perspective by drawing attention to issues, the major party is then forced to adopt those positions to peel away support for the minor party (known as “co-opting”).
38 years since the dawn of right-of-center national Dems, and they’ve only moved further to the right. Does “change take time” or do people like DrDick just enjoy projecting failure on third party voters for their stances while ignoring the abjectness of their embarrassing inconsequentiality within their own desiccated Democratic Party. Such fine results “working within the party.”. I can’t conceive of anyone wanting to try something different with results like Obama.
Don’t be sorry; I knew before the 2008 election that Obama was a charlatan/fraud, and so voted for Nader, again. Gore/Lieberman? Yuck. Obama’s fondness & support for Lieberman against Ned Lamont for Connecticutt Senate was a good clue then, in 2006, of his milquetoast nature.
As for being “better than the other viable option”(Romney?), ok. But I’d need a gun to my head to vote for anyone with his repugnant policies. And his habitual utterances of “sweet-nothings” to the flock, although amusing, is predictably now, just bullshit du jour.