CNN’s snap poll has Obama winning the debate 48%-40% but their pronouncement is “no clear winner”. This has gotten into absurd territory now.

CBS begs to differ:

Immediately after it wrapped, 53 percent of the more than 500 voters polled gave the foreign policy-themed debate to Mr. Obama; 23 percent said Romney won, and 24 percent felt the debate was a tie.

The Most Trusted Name In News blew it. Again.

Absurd you say?

Willie Geist with Mark, I-want-to-be-the-Romney-Press-Secretary, Halperin to ‘splane it to us this morning followed by Morning JOkE throwing it to Richard, WMD, Haas for his clearly unbiased assesment of the proceeding. Absurd, on second thought, doesn’t quite get it done.

Good morning, by the way, and I read through the debate thread this morning and admired the way you handled the punk.

By CNN’s own admission, their panel had more Republicans than DEmocrats but still Obama won and still CNN calls it a “draw”. I don’t think that word means what they think it means…

Ah, thanks. I don’t know why some people want to turn firedoglake into the left’s version of infowars. I thought I was very pleasant until I was told that I don’t care how my tax money is being spent. I thought that was grounds for admonishment these days. Good morning to you too. Missed you at PUAC.

Bad morning. Household down with some kind of virus.
Wont miss it next Saturday. Off to work.

Great day all. Thanks for the post Attaturk.

Feel better!

Good morning all,

As a country we’re as sane as Lizzy Borden ever was.

Good morning, pups. Today we have Brooks, Cohen, Nocera and Bruni. In “Poll Addict Confesses” Bobo has a question: Is all this 24/7 hysteria over the latest political poll doing us any good? No. SASQ. Mr. Cohen also has a question in “Working With the Muslim Brotherhood:” If U.S. dialogue with Islamists works in Egypt, why not elsewhere? And there’s another question from Mr. Nocera. In “Where the Candidates Agree” he says President Obama and Mitt Romney both see the need for serious tax reform. So why won’t it happen? In “Heated in Florida” Mr. Bruni says the final presidential debate stayed true to the previous ones, giving us comedy, drama and some essential truths.

Here they are.

The coffee and tea are ready, and this morning I’ve got blueberry pancakes with warm maple syrup and apple wood smoked bacon. I’m feeling rather brain dead this morning, so I’m going to shuffle off and get another cup of tea. Congratulations to all of us for having survived the debates! Have a great day.

Thanks, attaturk, you know, since what the drones do is what we otherwise send the ‘troops’ to do, I can see the practice as somewhat better since actual U.S./coalition troops are not involved directly. Would like to see condemnation of sending in the troops in the same terms.

Thanks, Marion, the obsession with polling balances any obsession with reading oft disproved pundits, imho. Today when cell phones are taking over, though, it is silly, since we’re judging the whole country’s feelings based on people who answer landlines, iow, slightly bemused sorts.

Good morning. We are the country that elected Nixon. Twice. And George W. Bush. Twice. So we’ve got that going for us.

A good day to all. The mines await.

Drones give us the ability of going to war without any casualties of our own. One of the few things that has controlled presidential adventurism is the question of what to do when the body bags start coming home. Bush simply imposed a news blackout, especially scenes of coffins being unloaded from aircraft. Obama continued the blackout, but added in the drones to the max.

One less control on foolish behavior.

Boxturtle (And that’s the last thing we need)

The polling has become absurd anyway. Did anybody else notice that just as soon as the conservatives began to whine about “biased polling” they suddenly shifted in Rmoney’s favor? I don’t have enough information about it to make an accusation here but I do know that a filter is everything in polling and that there seems to be a widespread effort in the news media to jack up their ratings by any means necessary. It’s pretty damning when Ras polls don’t shift but everybody else’ polls begin to match them. Just in my opinion of course.

In both instances, a corporate takeover was achieved by lies. The same methods are being tried again. The media has a responsibility to inform the public, and is not doing a great job – though I must say msnbc has commentators who are trying.

The half dozen or so people I’ve talked to all give the win to Obama. Including one die hard GOPer who’s going to vote for Mitt anyway.

Boxturtle (He thinks Obama is in WAY over his head. Not going to debate that)

Obama didn’t “add drones”. That too is a long standing Bush policy. It’s possible Obama expanded their use but blaming him for drone warfare is patently untrue.

Heard a comment recently that polls were polled, and found to be slanting in toward a common finding from extremes, and the commenter was appalled. As we all should be.

“Thing Unspoken.”

America is a substance abuser in need of sobriety. A real 12 step program is not in the cards when corporations, like drug dealers protect their business models and profits at the expense of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, predicated on lies repeated so many times, the lies are accepted as truth?

Corporations and money control America, not the people. It is called corporate fascism American style. Bought with money extracted from US!

Speaking of unspoken truth….

I’d also note that it is the military strategy planners that put together its wars, not just the commander in chief.

Obama continued the blackout

History tells a different story.

and found to be slanting in toward a common finding from extremes

I didn’t know that but just so. Rather than looking for the average, (like polling is supposed to do), they are highlighting the extreme ends.

If U.S. dialogue with Islamists works in Egypt, why not elsewhere?

Because Egypt is the only Arab country with a treaty with Israel and we’re desperate to maintain that. So we’re willing to actually negotiate, rather than dictate.

The people is that if we do manage to get along, people will really start asking the above question. Assuming that the MSM doesn’t keep it quiet. Israel REALLY does not want America asking that question.

Boxturtle (Imagine the reaction in Israel just ot high level talks between Iran and America!)

I know that kind of technology was being tested when I was in the Navy. We had a pilot shoot one down, (by accident-he was supposed to aim NEAR it, not AT it), and FODded his engine. That would have been about 1988.

Most of the public polls are propaganda anymore IMO. The only polls that are actually unbiased are the campaigns internal polls, which they don’t release but sometimes leak if it serves their purposes and Nate Sliver.

You can deduce what those internal polls are saying to an extent by watching the smart money, the candidates schedule changes, and the talking points.

We knew when Mitt’s internal polling said he was dead in Pa when he pulled out of advertising in Pa.

Boxturtle (Obviously, Ohio is still in play. TV almost unwatchable)

oooopsie, expensive that. Why does this remind me of the efforts to show that star wars works?

Yes, poor phrasing on my part. Bush started the drones, Obama expanded them. We had few armed drones at the beginning of Iraq II.

Boxturtle (Drones are now the largest single component of our air force)

You can deduce what those internal polls are saying to an extent by watching the smart money, the candidates schedule changes, and the talking points.

I’m hep. Been watching Rmoney all campaign shifting resources to Ohio, which he must have, despite polling showing it’s becoming more solidly Obama by the day. At the same time his campaign is claiming there’s nothing to see here….

Maybe because it’s largely the same people…?

Gotta go to work. laters all.

Obama made at least two trips publicly to Dover, maybe more. But IMO our casualties are still way under reported . We lose a dozen to a roadside bomb, there’s a blurb in the national news, and the rest of the reporting is left to the local papers where the soldiers lived.

If you asked how many US troops had died in Iraq II, I wonder how many people on the street to guess the correct order of magnitude. I certainly wouldn’t know if it weren’t for SD’s regular signoff post in the diner.

Boxturtle (And especially in Iraq II, somebody should be asking what they died for)

It’s possible Obama expanded their use but blaming him for drone warfare is patently untrue.

How is that ‘patently untrue’? It isn’t just ‘possible’ that he expanded their use; he hasn’t tried to hide his expansion of the program. It’s his program now, and he isn’t making excuses for it. That, apparently, is the job of his supporters.

I’d also note that it is the military strategy planners that put together its wars, not just the commander in chief.

Who holds the power to hire and fire military planners? If you’re suggesting the president has insufficient control over the policies for which he’s taking public credit, then either he’s an incompetent executive or the executive is irrelevant. In turn, that means that either we need a more competent executive, or that the office is window dressing and we can stop debating the subject right now.

Your very clear implication was the blackout on covering coffins coming home, so that’s what I responded too. Off to work.

Living Under Drones

While this report does make rather dubious excuses for the U.S. right to occupy and wage war on foreign soil, it does attempt to take an honest, comprehensive look at the murderous, counterproductive drone program.

If competence is desired in running wars, any president who overruled his military would be just that, incompetent. Your inexperience with the operations of the executive department is pitiable.

Yes the number of troops engaged and dying is much reduced, as was promised and accomplished.

Now off to get stuff done, thanks for good company.

If competence is desired in running wars, any president who overruled his military would be just that, incompetent.

The issue is not ‘how to’ run the wars, but whether we ought to be running them at all. Also, last I checked, in our system of government the military is under civilian control. Though perhaps your advanced experience with the executive branch has taught you something that differs from our Constitution.

Israel owes it existence in large part to the United States and the trillions of American taxpayer’s dollars Israel has received since its inception. Therefore a US/Iran Pact trumps Israeli intransigence and puts and end to this “BULLSHIT,” utilized for decades for politics here in America. Problem is oil does not like competition here in America or anywhere…

If you can merge national security with economic energy monopolies using money to buy policy, we can call these monopolies, “strategic interests” and all consumers will want is cheap gas as they once wanted cheap tea? “Enthroned corporations?”

BTW, if you had two spitballs and the other guy had 200 spitballs ready to go, would you use one spitball to initiate a confrontation and commit spitball suicide?

This is a racket in need of a racket-buster and the American people are being played all the time by corporate’s money brainwashing of America via First Amendment while lies left unchallenged, are used to protect business models and profit at life’s expense!

America did a good job of calling native Americans “terrorists,” to justify the use of force to “cleanse land” of undesirables to advance corporate interests and take the west, using the technology of the day. Guns and small pox infected blankets. Today its drones and laced little blue pills used to quell the undesirables, worldwide?

So we’re willing to actually negotiate, rather than dictate.

The problem is that if we do manage to get along, people will really start asking the above question.

Fascists do not negotiate, they dictate. Then use technology and war to impose and leverage subordination and protect economic strategic interests called monopolies. America’s corporate fascists have no problem spilling blood in the lust for profit. As long as it is not their blood being spilled, in that lust for profit and power. Dead people can’t profit or abuse power….

“…in our system of government the military is under civilian control.”

It is under corporate control using secrecy, money, advancing a corporate interest/agenda once again at America’s expense.

The problem is that what goes around comes around. Other countries have drones, too, and the technology diffuses quickly. Nice embassy you’ve got there Mr. Obama. Would be terrible if anything happened to it. Or perhaps just some house is richistan in the Turks and Caicos gets blown up while one of the one percent is entertaining there. There’s a world of potential hurt out there for those who want to inflict it.

That’s a big problem, Knut; so many here (including among Obama’s supporters) don’t believe it will come around, even though in many ways it already has, or at least the groundwork’s been laid. As long as they don’t believe Obama or any other president will revoke their own privilege to keep breathing, they’ll continue to make excuses for the slaughter of innocents overseas. The corporate media (with their staged, exclusive ‘debates’ and such) make it easy to maintain plausible deniability, though that deniability gets less plausible by the hour.

On the debate, it seemed to me Obama won easily. I have no idea what CNN was smoking. Then again I think this particular debate does not count for much. It is still the economy stupid and unless Obama gets a handle on that issue, he loses.

Joe Scarborough of all people had a long rant this morning on the drones the immorality and stupidity as to foreign relations.

We have become the terrorist nation. Limited unprotected targets with large numbers of civilians taken out.

I neither justify, excuse or condone anything, but IMO, Sept 11 2001 was all about payback being a bitch.

US citizens have been propogandized to believe that we are “exceptional,” and that, therefore, we are inviolate and untouchable by the terrissss.

Fraid it ‘taint so.

Agree that more blow-back’s likely over time. We can have all the empty suits posturing on the tv telling us this, that & the other about why Team USA Fuck Yeah! gets to walk all over everyone else so there!!!!!! But it’s not gonna make us any “safer” from drone strikes from those who may not like us very much.

I’m not happy about this. Just saying…

Clearly I meant that Obama isn’t the original author of drone warfare. Context!