So everybody’s been piling on this guy, who richly deserves it:
“I see a reporter here,” he said. “I just pray that you start writing about these issues. I just pray. Stop always writing about, ‘Oh, the person couldn’t get, you know, their food stamps or this or that.’ You know, I saw something the other day — it’s like, another sob story, and I’m like, ‘But what about what’s happening to the country and the country as a whole?’ That’s going to devastate everybody.”
And I want to talk about this a little bit because it’s not just that he doesn’t see what he likes in the press anymore. It’s not just that he doesn’t want to be reminded of people who have less than he does. It’s not just that he’s a rich asshole who would rather not have to look at what happens when rich assholes get their way. That’s been going on forever. That’s the very nasty, very HUMAN response to getting exactly what you ordered from the menu of various types of shitstorms you could have.
We saw that with the Iraq war, too, with the anger from the right over the pictures of burned and bloodied and yes, terrorized people, with the pictures of the tortured from Abu Ghraib. We see that now with the aftermath of drone strikes, with stories of black sites and secret proceedings: Take it away, don’t make me look at it, don’t make me see what I’ve done. When given that this is what you’ve done, the least you can do is look at it.
No, what I want to address is this guy’s insistence that we’re not seeing the big picture.
One of the things that drives me nuts about our current political conversation is the insistence on prizing abstractions over actual, you know, things. Wittering on about the deficit and the idea of “running government like a business” when people need jobs and old age is only not automatic poverty by dint of amazing luck, for example. Talking about needing to kick some ass in other countries because otherwise people will think we’re weak. Shrugging off anyone who’s hurt by modern economics as oh well, just part of the cost of living. That’s what this guy’s really pissed about. He thinks the system is the story, “the country as a whole.” The rules and how they’re followed are the point, to him.
He’s completely 180 degrees bass-ackwards, of course, but not for the reasons he thinks, not because sob stories just deep-down make him feel icky and instead of taking that icky feeling for what it is — a HINT — he’d rather you stop encouraging it. He’s wrong because the system, the rules, “the country as a whole,” isn’t the point. People are the point. A system is only good so long as it actually serves people and when it no longer does it’s time to burn that motherfucker down, as has happened throughout history every time this has occurred.
Perpetuating the rules for the sake of perpetuating the rules — following The Law because it is The Law, and not because it is also right and good — is the source of most of the up-fuckedness in the world and always has been. “The country as a whole” is not the rules and it’s not the system. It’s not the deficit, it’s not the budget, it’s not government spending. It’s who can’t get their food stamps. It’s who’s being failed and who’s getting lost because our fate is your fate, because the country as a whole means the country as a whole, all of us.
The country as a whole is and always will be what happens to the very least of us, and no more. It’s what we tolerate happening in the name of perpetuating a system that rewards the powerful and punishes the powerless. It’s what we’re willing to sacrifice in service of the rules we’ve made, so that those rules continue.
That’s a sad story. It probably is upsetting to hear it. Easier to talk about the system and the rules, because by themselves, they don’t mean anything at all.
A.



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The “big picture” here is that this privileged asswipe, and all the rest of them, have been abusing the peasants here and abroad for thousands of years for their personal amusement and enrichment and they do not want to know the sordid details or, more importantly, for us to know the details of how that happens and what the consequences are. This is the kind of guy that makes me long for guillotines.
I fear, Allison, that you are an idealist. It’s a good thing to be, unless you mind being embittered by the constant weight of disappointment on your shoulders.
On a brighter note, I find that there is a viable alternative to this which actually exists in the real world. It is an actual case study of syndicalist socialism in practice and is highly successful. It is called the Mondragon Co-operative Corporation and is the 9th largest company in Spain.
I don’t know, Alison. I think today, Jimmy Carter took a good look at an important part of the big picture, and he sure didn’t like what he’s seen of it:
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/06/jimmy-carter-accuses-u-s-of-widespread-abuse-of-human-rights/
Romney’s callous attitude toward working-class americans is clear, but Barack Obama’s bloody-handed continuation and enhancement of so much of George Bush’s policy, is just as clear.
If, right now, someone asked me which of the two was more likely to engineer a “pre-emptive” attack on Iran after the election, I’d call it a wash…with the caveat that since we know Obama tried to sustain the occupation of Iraq, he just might have the edge…
The big picture is that capitalism is going down and practically nobody has the wherewithal to organize, seriously organize, for an alternative. So when capitalism goes down, it’s taking you with it.
Mondragon, if I understand its operating principles correctly, reminds me a little of the cooperatives that evolve as multinational capitalism proves its nonviability in Kim Stanley Robinson’s Mars books. We can only hope that the idea spreads.
Hola, amigos.
EDP,
Robinson explicitly cites the Mondragon coops as a source of inspiration in Green Mars. He also discusses something about a situation in Bologna (Italy, not the crappy sausage made of road-kill and road-kill by-products), but I’m not for-sure if that’s real or made up.
Hola!
Whatcha got; anything from “Carmen”? :o)
See mine at 3.
Hola, compadre! Que paso!
Thanks for the added information, I didn’t remember the direct reference in Green Mars.
And as for me, I agree with Dennis the Constitutional Peasant.
It’s more a Monty Python night.
Besides, Carmen was not the sort of girl you bring home to meet the family. Just ask Don Jose how that worked out.
It is a syndicalist socialist cooperative collective wholly owned by the workers who make all the decisions. Managers make between 3 and 9 times as much as the lowest paid member of the cooperative (varies by cooperative). Given that it employs over 82,000 people and is a multi-billion dollar enterprise, it would seem than maybe those MOTUs don’t really need those extravagant pay packages to perform adequately.
When the world-economy is a co-operative of co-operatives, we’ll have an alternative to capitalism. Otherwise “the market” can subsume even Mondragon.
Two more days of polluting young minds, and I’m making them take a final and getting on the big tan bird for St Louis to meet young Captain Countertenor, who will haul my sorry keister to Cincinnati to spend the remainder of my summer with Mrs. Dr. Countertenor. He will have to return to Ft Lost-in-the-Woods when the extra-long holiday weekend is over.
Que pasta witchoo?
Are you all thinking of lobbing dungbombs at Scalito, Roberts and Co? Has a date been set for the takeover of MT by mining interests?
I started working on a parody version of the Gettysburg Address (Government of the Monied, by the Monied and for the Monied, etc.) but it got too damned depressing.
It already is a viable alternative to capitalism which operates internationally. Capitalism is not the only answer and its demise is not to be feared or regretted.
Maybe. Maybe not. It depends on the rules governing the cooperatives. If there are strict partnership limits in place that control the level of holdings, the cooperatives are not attractive take-over prospects.
Like many things, the devil is in the details.
Yes, a femme fatale, for sure…but what a way to go. :o)
And, back on topic, I think that people on here are getting on to the fact that the effort by our corporatist lords to spread their tentacles across the planet is reaching critical mass, furthered, in no small part, by the current occupant of the White House, as he and others loudly point to the fact that Mitt Romney would like to do more of the same. :o)
I think it’s Green Mars, it might be Blue Mars. Whichever, he discusses (pretty superficially : ( ) the concept of the Mondragon setup. He got me interested enough in it to read up on it — it looks to me like a good idea.
You are making the unwarranted assumption that MNCs controlling the world is a stable system. Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t. I would suppose that back in the days of feudalism and the divine rights of kings they also supposed that their system was stable.
The peasants are revolting is a sentence with more than one meaning.
While we’re all being depressed, here’s a lovely case of Louisianans’ tax dollars at work. Looks like the school voucher scam down there will do exactly what the Rethugs intended.
I don’t pretend to know what motivates Rmoney and his ilk. I don’t run in those circles, but the few folks I’ve met who are near those circles seem to take pride in a job well-done.
Just like you or me: there is satisfaction in doing something well. That seems to me to be a human thing and it doesn’t matter if the thing is music, brain surgery, teaching, or deal-brokering.
I think they take it because they can get it.
Two to beam up, Mr. Scott. There is no intelligent life on this rock.
Mondragon is wholly owned by the workers and impervious to takeover.
I was stunned by the naked mendacity of this alleged “textbook’s” claims. A truly amazing piece of utter stupidity.
This is actually the way I would like to see the world economy structured. It is also what Marx actually envisioned (based on the somewhat similar Paris Commune).
Uhhh…I didn’t say anything LIKE that. In fact, the evidence of the instability caused by rampant and institutionalized greed is mounting by the day. Clear enough?
I often think that if we are fortunate, Robinson will turn out to be correct and the successor to Capitalism will be something like a huge collection of worker-owned cooperatives.
Okay. Sorry about the misunderstanding.
While I was in Chicago, I actually met a few of the MOTU and was considerably unimpressed (Penny Pritzger threw a screaming hissy fit that would embarrass a 4 year old in the lobby of a theater where I was moonlighting as a house manager). Mostly they seem only interested in who is screwing whom (literally and figuratively) and money. They may have prided themselves on a job well done, but so does Jamie Dimon. Perceptions and reality are not the same thing.
As I say, it is my ideal. I am a syndicalist socialist and this is what it looks like.
The part that worries me is whether a successful changeover could be made before the inevitable crash and burn. If capitalism goes down hard enough, there may not be much chance for any successor system to establish itself. That’s a problem that Robinson was able to gloss over in his novels, but things may not go so well in the real world.
A couple of my HS classmates and a couple of Mrs Dr CT’s HS classmates made themselves Brazilians of bongobucks in the VC world. I’ve met with them at reunions and also been singularly unimpressed with them as people.
My point wasn’t that they are doing anything like what you or I would consider a useful job, but that as long as they are reasonably well-paid (say, 30x what a peon on the floor is getting) they’ll continue to do whatever voodoo they do.
Thanks. Not a problem. :o)
The Mondragon experience suggests that people will do just as well if they are only paid a fraction of that (3-9 times as much as the lowest paid employee).
I did qualify it… “If we are fortunate…”
If we aren’t? Well, the survivalists may have the last laugh after all.
Yeah, but when they’ve seen 300 and 500 and 1000 multipliers… they’d probably think cutting them back to 30x was dire straits indeed.
And not in the Sultans of Swing sense…
They may just do better. After all, one of the decisions made by the worker-owners is whether to retain a manager. That kinda suggests that they’d better perform if they want to stay on that gravy train–very different from the MOTU who collect their bonuses regardless of performance and a golden parachute even if they do get tossed out.
OUr great hope, and there are small scale examples, is that the employees can buy the enterprises (or pieces of them) and make a go of them without all the excessive rent extractions that characterize mature capitalism.
Greed is what drives them, as I said above.
This Thursday’s SCOTUS decision regarding “surgery” on Obama’s prize pig, I think is going to be a pretty good mine canary for how Wall Street really views Obama. I’m thinking that having a “librul” democratic preznint whose main political thrust has been protecting the corporate status quo, is going to be hard to beat for republicans with big bucks and two synapses to rub together. Romney’s plan, notwithstanding.
If SCOTUS just resects the mandate, will Wall Street be pleased? If they “do” the whole thing, will they be ecstatic?
Might they not feel that strip-mining Obama of his great “accomplishment” would be too much of a boat rock?
Considering the vote on Holder’s contempt charge is happening at practically the same time, it’s going to be an interesting week.
Well, thanks for a worthwhile discussion, but I think it’s time I wandered off. Peace out, y’all!
What is interesting is that many of the managers were educated and got their MBAs at a university run by the cooperatives. Mondragon puts as much emphasis on education and training (as well as other social aspects) as they do on running their businesses.
“Well, the survivalists may have the last laugh, after all.”
True enough. I do know people who are “gunning” up like mad, and laying in stocks of food.
Of course, I live in South Carolina, and generally speaking, we just love us some cataclysmic shit going on. :o)
Peace back at you, Doc.
Inconceivable !
I am sorry, but while Obama is no prize and far too corporate friendly, RMoney makes him look like a fucking socialist.
Sleep well!
Word.
Unfortunately, looking like a socialist by comparison has no necessary relationship to being a socialist. Or even an FDR Democrat.
You cannot even buy ammunition here in Montana because of the rightwing loons. I went looking for some rounds for my .41 magnum bear gun for target practice and the shelves were almost bare. There is usually a ton of every imaginable ammo.
And I’m going to head for the sheets too. Good night, folks.
Two words: reloading bench.
That’s my view from up here as well … work to sweep out the BlueDogs, vote for PBO and in ’16, have a progressive candidate vetted and ready to go.
Night! I should do the same as I have young minds to corrupt again tomorrow. Take care all.
Yep. Though I have my doubts that there will be any serious progressive presidential candidates to pick from. Given our private financing of election campaigns, they have to go through the money campaign before us peasants even get a choice. Now I really am out of here.
A little Ditti for the right wing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGC0Cw2-AIk&feature=player_embedded
Agreed ! There has to be legislation barring the Kochroaches from deciding elections …
ROFL … nahant !
Hey Petro how does it Go? … Well I certainly hope.. ☺ ☺
Very well, thanks … how’s things with you ?
Sorry, Dick, considering Obama’s track record, Romney makes him look like…say…a younger brother who’s pretty close to 90% on the Ayn Rand catechism scale, and working hard to make up the other 10.
When Obama still had all that clout and had Reid kill the Dorgan amendment, and then had Pelosi stuff the effort by some good House dems to bring up that bill that would have stripped the health-care thieves of their exemption from the anti-trust laws, just as he bailed on a public option, I don’t think Romney could have sold us out with any more speed or efficacy.
As I said; I also think it’s a coin-toss as to which of them, if elected, would gin up an attack on Iran.
An acquaintance of mine has this thing for Ron Paul, so he commented on my post where Paul debates Krugman. My major problem with Paul there is that he’s concerned about an entirely abstract problem, the deficit. Krugman is concerned about a very real problem, unemployment, that affects people in the here and now. Sorry, but I’m not at all impressed by Paul’s many degrees and experiences. He doesn’t live in the real world where actual folks live, he lives up the clouds somewhere.
Dang, no mention of Iceland…? This…Bankers jailed, sued as Iceland seeks culprits for crisis, Led to this… Iceland pays off IMF debt ahead of schedule… Funny, no…?
Doing just fine.. Getting ready for a camping trip on 7/8 at Lake Siskiyou with most of my kids and their families… should be fun..
Not funny just GOOD Justice unlike what has been happening here in our country…
Iceland is prolly going to adopt the Canadian currency too …
CT !
Looks great … enjoy !
twill be great to get all them together for some Summer fun… Especially the Grand Kids..
*heh* I wonder if I could find my own little hot spring if I moved there…! ;-)
Just think how fast our ‘crisis’ would’ve been resolved with some frog marches on Wall Street…! ;-)
Oilers had the 1st pick, for the 3rd year in a row … things are heating up in Edmonton as well !
Was there another golden boy like Crosby to draft…? ;-)
Natch. They got Yakupov, who’s well ranked though … Tambellini is building a talented, young team.
fer sure CT fer sure.. Nothing like a bunch of bankers being drag off to Jail to make us happy…
I’ll be keeping an eye out for Yakupov…!
I will try to be clearer. The problem with entities that are dependent upon “the market” is that prices can be manipulated by those who control the money and/or the commodities trade, forcing said entities into bankruptcy. And lots of bankruptcies mean disaster capitalism, which means that governments can be forced to sell their assets to the corporations that manipulated the prices in the first instance.
The PTB have this methodology perfected to a fine art, having used it deftly to force privatization upon much of the world in the 1980s and 1990s. Any business, no matter how cooperative its internal structure may be, is vulnerable to the market if it is trading commodities for money as its means of assuring throughput. Now, a “business” that can consistently make throughput happen outside of the commodities trade is immune from all this.