Welcome to the First Day of Summer, and thanks, SD. Turning attention on prisoner treatment can be one effect of having mistakes brought out, as the Innocence project has so beautifully done in reviewing convictions particularly in TX, where so many have been overturned.

Mornin’, pups

Good morning SouthernDragon and Ruth.

Also, good morning to all the diners yet to walk in the front door.

Thank you for the post SouthernDragon.

Good morning, pupses, and thank you, SD.

Getting too hot for coffee in the morning. There is a big pitcher of tea in the fridge.

Third day of high nineties and winds in the 40 mph range here today.
Tomorrow is supposed to get back to the 80′s thank goodness. I sure am ready. I should have added that I am ready for the ice tea.

Sorry to hear it’s bad there. After last summer’s extremes I won’t be staying the summer in TX, spuds sweetly fixed my front porch so it’s safe, now we’re shortly leaving to visit friends in OR and on to PA

Tea comin’ up.

If the humidity is low, that temp is bearable, especially with some breeze. But when you’re up in the 80-90 percent ranges, ooohhh.

Good morning, SD and Firepups. Old issues are simmering still, apparently, as illustrated by the latest diaries and threads from wendydavis, jaango, and PhoenixWoman at My.FDL. Not to bring the conversation here, because I do not know that SD would welcome it, but just because I hope people will think about the situation with a bit of love and good faith, I copy this comment of mine from PW’s thread: realitychecker June 20th, 2012 at 4:07 am 89

Dysfunction thrives in silence. These issues need to be talked out, more light, not less. PW, it doesn’t help to pretend that different words all mean the same thing, a more careful analysis is warranted. Following the Cavlan kerfuffle, I posted my famous (infamous?) Clucking Hen diary, deliberately setting myself up as a lightning rod, so people could get all their emotions and venting out in the open, and maybe we could find a way to reconcile the differences and issues and be a community once again. I was attacked for being divisive, mostly by Old Guard players here who then continued to project their own angers and exclusionary pressures into the environment. So, now we are where we are, losing participants daily, and with a sour cloud over everything. We better have a good faith conversation soon about the differences betw the internal groupings, and some illumination of where management stands on the various issues involved, or I do not see a good future for this community, a community I have loved and supported since before the Iraq War.

So Mexico is a nation controlled by narcoterrorists, and Brazil has a fundamentally decent, progressive government, and Mexico is supposed to be better? And why are these two nations being compared anyway as they are so different? (Mexico being in the U.S. economic orbit and Brazil an independent world power)?

Good morning from over here in the corner booth, everyone. I’m happy to be back. We’re having the same hot weather here in NW Indiana, and it’s keeping me off my bicycle. 94º forecast, I think, but winds “only” 25MPH.

Good for Alice Walker! But I’m not sure I understand what Assange is up to with his Ecuadorian asylum. Is he afraid the sexual assault charge will be used to trump up worse things if he allows himself to be taken into custody?

Would dearly love to see Oregon sometime.

You guys have a safe and enjoyable trip.

But you managed to bring it here this morning.

To the best of my knowledge Assange’s only concern all along has been that Sweden will extradite him to the US and we know what DOJ will do to him.

In my humble opinion, you would be going to two beautiful states.
I loved both of them in my traveling days.

Now this is truly disturbing.

Mitch Daniels to be Purdue’s Next President

My son and daughter are both Purdue grads. Why on earth would they pick this clown as president, I wonder?

Ah, yes, of course. Brain not firing on all cylinders this morning, I guess.

Purdue, Greece, WI…

No, SD, as I said, I don’t want to discuss it here, I left the door open for you to green light it if you chose, but absent that I don’t think it should take place here. I do, however, think it is obvious beyond obvious that it needs to take place somewhere, and soon. Losing OldFatGuy is not good. Anyone seen DW lately? Quality people will not stay where there is so much hostility and distrust simmering. But it doesn’t need to be done here, I just want people to think about it and not pretend that nothing is wrong, or that they have all the right on their side and don’t need to make any adjustments in their own space.

Oh, that does sound like a nice trip. I’ve never been to Oregon, and would love to see it. Are you going to look up Suzanne?

I’d say over 400 comments on 3 threads is a good start. MyFDL is not the mothership. Count me out.

As I understand it, she’s also invited to a large meet-up we’ll be going to, and that will be a couple of different blogs with bloggers shared among them.

Thanks for all your good wishes, we’re having great times, and acting the original road trip out with great times, and spuds is a super safe driver.

And he drives a truck, obviously. LOL.

A road trip would be fun. Haven’t done one of those in a very long time. I have contemplated driving to California sometime, taking my time, stopping or detouring along the way to sightsee. Maybe doing one of those auto driveaway car delivery things and flying back after.

You’re doing a great job. Providing a great forum for discussion sometimes means being very patient with folks’ obsessions, and I admit to yawning hugely at same. The Diner is full of folks worth reading and responding to, and using their time poorly would be a shame.

Morning SD & Pupses:

Photo of Jamie Dimon on his way to yesterday’s hearing.

Yo Dragon: The “uncheck” fix worked for you, then? The fix is so simple that one would think it might be prominently displayed on the electric interweb machine, and yet…

Morning pups! Thanks for the post, SD.

Wife just taught our 1 yr old lab to roll over. Entertaining as hell :)

GNO Labeling ?
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/282977_295641613865029_463496801_n.jpg

All that is missing are the presidential cuff links.

Whoever leaks the info about who gave those to Dimon will be disappeared forever.

msmolly, should that be “is” the cuff links? Is the pair of cuff links. Better?

General comment on The Diner:

Mmmmmm…..Bacon….

I’m going to guess it was authorized by #1 himself. But that’s just a guess…

Good Morning All
Back from camping, and guess what we had for breakfast the first morning?
Yep.

LOL. I think “are” the cufflinks or “is” the pair.

It is really disturbing how much Jamie Dimon resembles my former boss, who is now a CIO in Arizona. Just in some photos, and I imagine if they stood side-by-side the resemblance would be only very slight. But it’s startling!

Welcome back. The diner just isn’t the same without you. *g*

Thank you. There are commenter issues at MyFDL and I’d not like to see them migrate to the mothership.

x2.

That is good info. I’m not sure I will remember which is what when I get to the grocery.

Has anyone watched Food, Inc.? It is a few years old now, but I got it from Netflix. It made me want to quit eating anything from the grocery.

My daughter’s family has a chocolate lab — she’d be about 2 years old, maybe a bit more. I am not a dog lover, but she is one of the smartest and best behaved dogs I’ve ever been around.

Welcome back :) ok, I’m dense. What was for breakfast?

You know I can’t resist bad jokes, so it must be crow?

welcome home, glad you got a vacation in the great outdoors. It’s a lark. And sparrows, etc.

Hint: see #28

Morning pupsters,

Thanks, JC. I really do appreciate your kind note.
It’s been a little hectic at my house, but it’s settling down now. The camping trip was just the thing that was needed.
Besides the long walks and lotsa cooking on the campfire, we drove a little ways up the coast to Pt. Hueneme where the SeaBees have a new museum. It was interesting to see all the photos and tools and weapons from the different wars. All in all, a nice little vacation from everything here. :

Bacon, baby!

Future Computer Games, StuxNet and FLAME, are government, taxpayer funded malware. Both allow attacks against any Microsoft OS. Spyware FLAME is quite sophisticated, with a database to store any and all information, and spoofs Microsoft updates. Stuxnet is designed to cause damage, and so it is not stealthy.

Flame was developed at least five years ago as part of a classified effort code-named Olympic Games, according to officials familiar with U.S. cyber-operations and experts who have scrutinized its code. The U.S.-Israeli collaboration was intended to slow Iran’s nuclear program

The Syymasters do not know what they want. They have supplied Iran with nuclear technology for 30 years. The CIA also helped Iran’s nuclear program by supplying them with plans for a nuclear bomb. But computer games are less destructive than Blackwater assassinations.

Ddduuuuhhhhh, lol! Thanks :)

You crack me up. I guess I’m not above eating crow, if I have to.
But, there were a lot of crows who came early and woke everyone up.
It’s fun to sit at the morning fire and watch the bunnies poke out of the bushes to check the haps.

Yes, he does do a good job. Thanks, SD, for all you do.

Obsession isn’t far from the mark for me. Being OCD anyway, I am way too wrapped up in not only the election, but everything that is happening in the country right now. It is overwhelming. I’m going to step back a bit, so if I’m not around as much, know that I am thinking about all of you and probably lurking a bit :)

Gotta run for now. Slept too late for food bank yesterday, so I’m making up some time today.

Welcome back, demi and msmolly! Have a safe trip, spuds and ruth!

Safe travels and safe home, pupses dears

your

ohmmmm

Off to swim in the great capitalist cesspool.

US KIA Afghanistan: 2,013

Afghan, Iraki, Yemeni and Pakistani casualties: estimates vary to over 1.5M

US MBS 2012: 21,204 and counting

No war but class war

Breakthrough

Be good to yourselves, and all other living things

Namaste

Never. Give. Up.

Reality has a way of overtaking even those who are determined to “yawn hugely.” If you think the sideways slaps that so many love to induge in will keep change from affecting you eventually, you will probably be disappointed. Dysfunctional families always “yawn hugely” and pretend there is no problem. Fact. Anyway, if SD wants to be “out, ” then I will say no more on the subject, out of the respect I have for him.

Hey ya, Nonquixote.
And, along with the bacon, I made a pico de gallo omelette, so we had breakfast burritos.
The canyon was jam packed with Sycamore trees and so many different kinds of flowering bushes, it was a feast for the eyes.

A step away from the fireplace helps sometimes, and it keeps you from getting singed a bit, too. Thanks, we will have wonderful times, and safely. So glad we can take the time and space to do this.

Thanks for the welcome back, and just take good care of yourself. You have some wonderful events happening in your family right now, so enjoy.

There was a political site set up a couple of years ago because folks were accusing My Left Wing of censorship. The person who set up the site said that the only things that would be censored would be stuff that would affect the legal standing of the site.

It lasted for six months before the flame wars caused the owner to shut it down.

The problem is not political bias in moderation. The problem is that folks have different standards of what constitutes rudeness. And there are folks who go around testing the rules and complaining. And others whose feelings are easily hurt and complaining.

That issue won’t go away no matter how much you talk about it. People freely decide to come here. People freely decide to stay here. People freely decide to leave. People freely decide to come back. Period.

Threatening to leave in order to extort changes in editorial policy as to content or commenting standards rarely works no matter what the differences are. Nor does heavy-handed moderation. Those facts won’t change either.

All sites are a work in progress on how to handle political discourse among people with diverse views. Firedoglake is no different. There will be controversy. Especially when feelings are so raw about the current situation on the progressive side of the spectrum.

And no matter what happens, I find it highly unlikely that FDL will impose the dislike of Obama as a litmus test for membership. And the site certainly is not an advocacy site for Obama’s re-election no matter how much that is charged.

Enough angst. It will sort itself out.

If this is introducing a note that is not helpful to the Diner, SD, have the mods delete this comment. Just wanted to let folks know what I see going on.

Thanks. There is ongoing distress among those whose diaries don’t receive attention they want, and sad to say usually the authors who are neglected blame others’ inability to perceive their epochal qualities.

TarheelDem, I agree with this 200% — and it is eloquently written. Thank you. I don’t think our host will be dissatisfied with this comment.

And with that, I’m out too, for now. I leave for my Docent shift in about an hour, and have a bunch of stuff to do before I go.

Holy shit! It’s all a matter of opinion!

TarheelDem, have I told you lately that I love you? Brilliant comment.

Thank you for that comment. I think it’s a very rational description of what we’re dealing with.

The Brazil vs. Mexico article was kinda silly. Both are positioning themselves within the global politico-economic environment, not just within the context of Latin America. And there is room enough for multiple economic leaders in Latin America; Asia, for example, has Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, China, and India.

And the power relationships in Latin America are still forming as the US loses the power to keep its thumb on the region. Mexico’s geopolitical situation between North America and Latin America is similar to Turkey’s between Europe, the Middle East, and Central Asia–a place where major cultures meet.

Sorry for the slow response,

I was out early harvesting the last of the scapes and just getting them into the fridge. We are experiencing summer on the first day of summer, not quite as severe as msmolly reported, but the first heat with humidity of the year.

S’okay. Havesting is good.
I took purple grapes, a couple of green peppers and a cucumber from my garden with us on the trip. Home grown stuff eaten on a camping trip is a pretty cool deal, imo.

Stay cool and comfortable, it’s going to be a long three months. Last summer here was such hell, it has given me a determination not to waste three months doing little besides keeping the shades drawn, life stopping because it’s too hot to live.

You are going to be having a much better summer this year. Incredibly, what a difference a year makes. A farm in Pennsylvania and a road trip to Oregon beats the hell out of what you went through last year. Yay!

Well said…

Threatening to leave in order to extort changes in editorial policy as to content or commenting standards rarely works no matter what the differences are. Nor does heavy-handed moderation. Those facts won’t change either.

Kind of like asking the US Congressional candidate for my district to say something publicly that was not screened by the DCCC, which would inspire old school democrats, independents and progressives to want to get out and work for his election. Postulating that keeping nuclear weapons out of Iran on one’s website, simply doesn’t distinguish him from the big, “R,” incumbent.

Seems like one cannot simply withhold support, but needs to threaten their preferred candidate with bad publicity to actually get them to take a progressive stand on something. The words Democratic, women and labor don’t appear on the website.

Hey Ruth,

Plenty of cool water nearby in Lake Michigan, cold front moving in tonight with highs in the mid 70′s and a bit less humid the rest of the week.

or I do not see a good future for this community, a community I have loved and supported since before the Iraq War.

Wow! You must be a time traveler then as FDL was not even founded until December 04 and the Iraq invasion occurred started in March ’03, a year and half earlier.

Oh, and here’s a brief note for SD:
At the camp site one morning, my son saw a large cup of coffee on the table, picked it up and asked whose coffee it was. I said, Oh, we’re all sharing. He said, So this is Communist Coffee? I thought of you. :)

TD, I absolutely agree with every single word you wrote there, but it still doesn’t cover the whole range of stuff that’s causing problems. ‘Nuff said.

I wish you cool. Having the good sense to locate where that’s the norm is good, and I’m trying to adopt that behavior.

Well, I have trouble sometimes knowing if something happened in May or April lol. I was here back when Christie was still a dominant player, and you could actually have personal interactions with her, OK? Whenever that was. Sometime in that period I stopped reading the dozen or so other websites that got daily visits from me, and made this my home site, and starting commenting here exclusively. You could go back and check under my real name if you want the exact date, and then you can come back and remind me, and I’ll have it tattooed on my wrist, OK? The tendency you exhibit here to automatically want to question everybody’s good faith is something I wish we would all think about. :-(

What dinosaur did Jebus ride? Inquiring minds want to know.

Coming from a guy who calls a long-time regular a “troll.” Twice. From a guy who pretends to make peace, and then holds a grudge. Believe it or not, I’ve actually had to deal with some really serious matters in the last ten years. So, EXCUUUUUUSE ME!!! And grow the fuck up.

Everyone knows he rode a triceratops. The three horns represent the holy trinity.

Enough! No more rationalizations, no more justifications, no more fueling arguments. I’m gettin’ sick and tired of this shit.

Buon giorno pups. I’m late to the Diner, but wanted to give a wave from Trapani (Sicily) where we are staying for a week. Being away from North America in really isolated civilized places is good for your brain and spirit. It has given me a lot of new ideas about the United States and how fucked up they are. (I have a theory that I will give at some point. The short version is we got too much too fast, and thought it was natural, when it isn’t).

As to life here, it is definitely dolce. I was in the emergency room of the local hospital Sunday for a badly sprained (at the time I thought broken) big toe,due I think to an extremely stiff clutch on our rented car). The room looked like a mash unit, but after a half hour wait, I was admitted to another office where a doctor who had virtually no English, french or German tried to figure out what I had by poking me here and there in painful places. She cave me a cortisone prescription and one for anti’ biotics. Done in 15 minutes. No bill, no hassle. Place looks like hell but the service is heaven. So much for socialized medicine.

A man came in while I was waiting holding his arm, and was shivering with pain. I don’t think I’ve ever seen pain like that in my life (I’m sure many of you have, but I lead a protected existence). I let him go ahead of me, as I was the last person anyway, and my pain was not terrible.

Things work pretty well here. The hardest thing is negotiating medieval tgown streets in a car. The Italians seem to know the tolerances to a centimeter, but for me, it is like threading the needle. I think that’s what killed my toe.

Good day to you all. Will be back at my post this time next week. In the mean time hold the fort against the trolls, etc.

If I get prodded, I respond. Just like you do, SD.

That made me laugh.

SD, thanks for the City Lights link.

Good morning, all. Not that it matters, but I have been having computer troubles for almost a week. I’m glad to be back.

Way back, when all the trouble broke, Ecuador offered Assange asylum. Assange has been worried about the death penalty and the death threats since the whole Wiki Leaks started. 0′s words and actions give no hint of fairness for Assange: ndaa ‘disappearing’ people, the KILL list, the prejudging of Bradley Manning, the threats of many in congress wanting to see him executed…. He may be in the Ecuadorian embassy for many years. The whole reason that England wanted to ship him back to Sweden, and Sweden wanted him was to extradite him to the US. Why England allowed the extradition by stretching the rules is obvious. He has not been charged with a crime in either country. Sweden said that he was wanted for questioning. The whole thing is obviously a set-up.

I didn’t read much of the thread this morning. If I am being redundant, I apologize.

The social responsibility of their government is an honor to the Italian character. On a tour, many years ago, our guide took pride in telling us that if we broke a leg, we would be treated without cost, because of his country’s good spirit.

I’d like to think my responses are a bit more mature.

Glad it worked for someone!

I only wonder if Jesus ever felt frisky while riding the triceratops. Ugh. *lightening bolt strikes yellowsnapdragon*

I can’t get spud off the floor, he’s still laughing.

Wonderful! You should check out the Bloomberg Poll thread up top. Newcarguy and I are riffing pretty strong on the comedy.

Just as a general comment to some earlier. Firedoglake became the name of a blog that had a life for some time before it became FDL. I don’t remember the name, but Jane and Christy Hardin Smith (ReddHeadd) took it over. Once Jane was in control, the site went through two changes of blog hosting as well as many internal changes.

You can search all the archives, and you will find I never start these things. Never. If others go out of their way to come at me, they are not being “mature,” and would probably fail to get the message if I was too “civil” with them. And sometimes even your responses are just irritable, SD. In point of fact, spud has taken the opportunity to take several jabs at me recently, with no response to this point. I could replicate them here if you want.

Thank you for that history. And curse me for claiming nine years of devotion when it may only have been eight.

RC – ya know I love ya, and I certainly value your opinion here.

I’ve got to point out that you came to the Diner this morning at just the 8th comment and said -

…Not to bring the conversation here, because I do not know that SD would welcome it, but…

- then proceeded to bring the conversation here.

Now here we are, 4-ish hours later, still talking about the same shit that already exists in 4 other threads on myFDL.

This is kind of fucked up. I personally think you owe SD and the regulars here at the Diner an apology for highjacking the thread.

On edit – I’m an experienced thread highjacker and have apologized for it from time to time. Hell, I’ve done it twice today with stupid humor upstairs…

Kris, I am not averse to apologies when I’m wrong, and have demonstrated that by doing so several times (unlike many others I could name who NEVER apologize), but I don’t feel the need today. If my original comment had just been taken at face value, as I always intend all my comments to be taken, then people would have been sufficiently alerted to the fact that some discussion was both indicated and available, and that would have been the end of it in this venue. That conversation is kind of pointless if only diarists participate. Maybe the Mothership is just not that into me anymore, I come here to learn and sometimes to teach, not to waste my energy deflecting backstabbers and ankle-biters.

Maybe the Mothership is just not that into me anymore, I come here to learn and sometimes to teach, not to waste my energy deflecting backstabbers and ankle-biters.

Ah, I think I see the heart of the problem!

You’re taking this shit personally. Remember always, RC, that at the end of the day this is just the damn internet. The folks here only know your internet persona, not the real RC, and nothing they say should have any bearing on who you are or how you feel about you.

Just my 2 cents. My experience with the toobz is that what people say to you or about you has far more to do with them than anything else.

Kris, you’re a good guy, and I am fond of you, just to be clear on that. What you say is right on one view, and on another view, one might also say the Internet is very important, as is anything we put a lot of our energy and emotion into. This is a continuing conundrum. I could not justify all the time and energy I spend here if I thought it was all meaningless.

I’m sure not suggesting it’s meaningless. I think it is very important, too. The exchange of ideas and strategies around politics and organizing is great, and the community building here is very rewarding.

I’m just suggesting that when it comes to differences of opinion on the actual operation of the forum, it’s just that. A difference of opinion. That someone’s opinion differs from ours really doesn’t matter a bit. At the end of the day this is still Jane’s site, it’ll be run Jane’s way, and we have a choice on when and how we participate, if at all.

I am going to do a little research in the archives, not for recent stuff but from a while back. My brain is telling me your comments are very similar to those made by a commenter who is no longer here. As a behaviourlist I have a fondness for patterns and I think I see some very similar patterns here.

I originally commented here under my real name, which I assume you have access to, and then under a handle. And I was often more sharp-elbowed in those days, as the Internet was a new thing to me, and I knew nothing about accepted online customs and etiquette. Since I started commenting under this handle, I think I’ve been a pretty upstanding community citizen. In older days, I was one strongly urging disaffiliation from the Democratic Party, long before Jane was ready to see the wisdom of that. Of course, that is now official policy. I also got into some heated exchanges over Israel posts, where I thought the commentary was totally one-sided and hateful (much like the current Trayvon posts). In any event, SD, though I really like and respect you, I don’t like the hardening I see and feel in you recently, and if you are trying to message me that you would prefer for me to absent myself from your venue, I will respect that desire. Just let me know. OR, if you would rather talk this out on the phone, I’d be happy to do that. I’m not looking to burn any bridges here, but the tensions are rising all around us, and I don’t have the capacity some others do to just ignore or make snide side-comments in response.

Ay- buenos dias, todos! Just after noon here in hot Texas..where we actually had some rain, from the evidence, while I was inside windowless courtrooms this morning. So, heat not too bad.

Driving back from Houston on Saturday, I allowed myself to relax enough to enjoy the bright blue sky that filled the horizon, and the fluffy white clouds scudding by. I didn’t appreciate the beauty when I first came west, but came to see it eventually.

My little trip combining business and pleasure did me a world of good, too. It’s great to be able to step away from home, even for a short time, and go somewhere you’ve never been.
Sounds like demi and msmolly are refreshed by their excursions, and Ruth is about to embark on one.
Ruth, what you’re doing is what I would do if I could afford it. Every summer I daydream about a house on Martha’s Vineyard…Or maybe Canada…
Hope you can post updates from time to time.

That other handle wouldn’t have been “razorbrain,” would it?

Here’s a little interesting realistic politics comment from elsewhere on the internet.

Third party money would be more wisely spent on electing Republicans to the senate in places like Montana and Missouri.

That would be against Jon Tester and Claire McCaskill.

Thanks for painting the image of that landscape, tejana.

Tester and Webb have been huge disappointments. Neoliberals to the core.

You sound wonderful. That trip appears to have done you a world of good.

Yes, it was, and I recently became aware through an offhand comment you made that you did not like that persona very much. When I adopted this handle, I made a conscious decision to try and get along and be more tolerant of others with different viewpoints, even if I believed they were dead wrong, and I believe I have lived up to that commitment, but I will never abide direct or obviously passive-aggressive attacks without responding, SD. And such attacks have always preceded any sharp comments I have made under this handle. You will find no exceptions. ON EDIT: I must find say I do not like the direction this is going, it feels like you are trying to make a case against me, and I don’t think there is a fair jury to be had here on your “mothership.” This is not what I come here for, and maybe you should ask yourself if this is what you are here for.

nonq, SD, why, thank you, gentlemen. Yes, yes, one little trip did do me a world of good, indeed. Just gotta make it last! (and Smoodgie came to the door for breakfast!)
SD – gotta agree about Tester and Webb. Sigh.

And now, having eaten my first Salvadoran tamal for lunch, I must go back to work (it was good! wrapped in banana leaf instead of corn husk). Plenty to do again. Laters, dinerzens.

I’m so glad you came back refreshed.
The Santa Monica mountain range, where we camped in a canyon just below Oxnard, is dotted with flowering Yuccas. (That’s a joke, son.) So gorgeous. Lots of those near where I live too.
Good old mother nature.

Webb was an ex-Reagan Republican. But McCaskill has been disappointing as well. Nonetheless, there are folks round here disappointed in Bernie Sanders, a clear symptom of (1) lack of understanding of how the procedures in Congress work and (2) ignoring the fact that money has broken the Congress because money no longer believes in government.

I actually wish it were Baucus who was up in Montana instead of Tester; Tester doesn’t have much seniority yet. We’re getting rid of Conrad. Feinstein is getting a pass by progressives in California. Lieberman is going. Baucus is the major committee chair left as a stumbling block. (I say this without looking at who is next in line; it’s Jay Rockefeller, Conrad (who’s out), Bingaman, Kerry, then Wyden).

My observations have been that you like to argue and a simple criticism or disagreement with your views can often start a thread hijacking argument you’re determined to win, regardless. It doesn’t always take a p-a comment to touch you off. IIRC razorbrain was banned but if the ptb don’t have a problem with a sock puppet who am I to question it. The tone may have changed but the content is pretty much the same.

I don’t have the capacity some others do to just ignore or make snide side-comments in response.

Practice makes perfect, and wastes less energy. You have obvious emotion and energy and knowledge with what you share here. Duly noted, respected and approved without needing to judge you as friend or foe or loved or not loved. Approval from others is highly over-rated in my book. It is either there or is not. Can I live with (my actions and interactions with others) myself is the question always in my mind. Start there with the practice, I have a feeling that you will feel better.

If you want to talk about rising tensions on discussion of the issues, move to WI. I have not removed my STOP WALKER button, yet. Job is not finished. Kris at #91 is succinctly correct. It took me ages to figure out that having the last word is not always productive or desirable or a win.

http://my.firedoglake.com/Jane-2/2012/06/20/fdl-and-the-2012-election/ Jane has weighed in, and, not to my surprise, is foursquare in favor of vigorous and open debate on the election issues people have gotten all worked up and hostile for being forced to see on the pages of the Mothership. It’s HER blog, people, now fall in line.

Do you consider that you may have abused your power here today? I do, but don’t bother to answer and start something new. I just want you to think about it. BTW, I came back as a paid member, and I like to debate, not argue-one can hope to learn from a debate.

You’re entitled to your opinion.

And so are you, but I bet you formed yours without taking into account that many times the provoking comments from others were a continuation of something that started on a different thread, or were a jumping-in from something that involved other clique members, as Larue would call them. I leave this conversation feeling pretty good that Jane has pretty much endorsed my basic position about free and open debate re Obama/Romney and third party support.

I know you are back to working, but I just had a lovely sandwich with thick layer of fresh picked and perfect butter-crunch lettuce, some local tomato slices and getting back to an earlier comment, bacon!!!

!!!

I have only read a part of this, but I want to note…This is precisely the sort of exchange that the Diner has not promoted in order to enjoy a more friendly respite. I hope that policy continues so that even “enemies” can sit down together. I do not think that is censorship or otherwise not allowing debate. It is setting a criteria for how we want our Diner to be and feel early in the morning. Just my 2 cents. Thanks

I also appreciate what the Diner is supposed to be, and for the most part has been. But when other Diners see fit to ridicule me, and mean it, what am I supposed to do? Might have been nice if the host, who I like and respect, was more even-handed, IMO. Anyway, tomorrow is another day. ;-)

Thank you, that was thoughtful input, from someone I respect, and I will give it due consideration. I’m not claiming to be perfect, just that I would never be the one to turn a polite exchange into something aggressive or insulting. There are good arguments for not rising to the bait, though, and I appreciate that and will meditate upon it.

Maybe you could try to ignore it and not retaliate or challenge or drag in real or imagined slights from other threads. You seem to go around with your fists up all the time, ready to throw a punch if someone breathes on you. I’m not sure why, but the belligerence gets a little tiresome. And it must be awful for your blood pressure. Back when my dad had his first heart attack, there was in vogue a term “Type A” personality. It isn’t healthy. Just sayin’…