Morning SD, thanks for the stories, just came over after finally getting a look at Caturday.

Good morning, SD and Firepups. Slow weekend? Not if you were measuring the intra-familial dysfunction levels. :-(

G’Morning….I surely slept alot this weekend; must have needed it.;)
Feels like Monday, here. Let’s hope for a good week in spite of the news.

Thanks, SD – interesting in your item from TRNN, seems the best thing that old commie foe has going for it is capitalism gone wild.

Mornin’, pups

Watching Soledad chirp ‘vagina’ – funny watching news readers find a way to say that word without getting us all upset.

Poignant story about uninsured – and what they’ll lose if Obamacare goes down”

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2012/June/17/uninsured-tennessee-clinic-supreme-court-health-law.aspx

Glenn Ford: “If you believe what Wall Street does is evil, then Barak Obama’s service to Wall Street is evil, and there is nothing lesser about it.”

I’ve got to listen to this one.

Good morning, pupses, and thank you , SD.

Didn’t get to your Book Salon until yesterday. Very well done.

Good morning all. We are so slow at work that I will be on burn pile fire watch all day. Have a great day pups.

When Obama was asked what he would do about boys he didn’t want to date his daughters, he joked at the gridiron dinner of the Washington press association: “predator drones.” Except this was not a joke. (As the press should have known–the president has no sense of humor).

And not funny no matter how you spin it; like W’s joke about Iraq and weapons…

Burn Pile Fire Watch sounds like a good way to clear out the mess, I should incorporate that here.

Good morning, sweetest one. Careful, that kind of clarity can get you in trouble. ;-)

That’s a barn burner. Pulls no punches. I really like Glen Ford.

Joseph Stiglitz is call-in guest in an hour, on WI Public Radio at this link . On-line connections at top of page. Questions can be submitted by phone, email or facebook. I’ll probably listen, my economics understanding not good enough to ask questions, a drenching rain here today, finally.

Good morning, folks.

The drone info on Amazon is the sort of trend I predicted as the outcome of US high-profile drone use. The cost of warfare has been dramatically lowered by research done by the country that has the least national interest in lower warfare costs. This means that states are not the only entities that can afford drones. Look for them at your neighborhood gun shows within a decade or so if our current gun-happy culture continues.

If we tell that kind of joke, we are likely to get disappeared. How can you not laugh?

The now it all makes sense department:

Bain Capital owns controlling interest in Clearchannel, the radio network that hosts so many conservative talkers. Did you notice a closing of ranks in the conservative talk-o-sphere when Romney finally clinched the GOP nomination?

They’re offshoring the guests now?

Dunno. Has Stephen Harper or the leader of Greece’s Golden Dawn been on yet?

Hard to do the translation over the pictures. Yes, Harper too, I hear he speaks funny.

I can’t listen to them. Any of them. I only hear them if I’m in the car, by accident, and even a minute or two makes me so angry I’m likely to cause an accident.

I’ve never listened to this program before. Very good, thanks for the link.

So true…Can’t listen.

Good morning everyone.

Thank you for the post SouthernDragon.

This reminded me I used to listen to Washington Journal on CSpan, but it’s gotten that way, too, all too many wingnut guests. So I checked, and Allen West is the next guest.

Really, there are sane folks who will appear on these shows, aren’t there?

Glen Ford, Purity Troll. Vote Obama, cuz he thinks it’s funny that he can kill you. (snark tags optional)

The host, Andrew Stelzer, used to be the Asst News Director at WMNF. I have a photo of he and I at the head of an alternative inauguration march in St Pete in Jan 05.

The weather forecaster last night said we are supposed to have 101 degrees today and 45 mph winds to go with it.
I would take the rain any day as we really need it here in N. Illinois.

morning all. Good interview with Richard Wolf.

Right wing broadcasts…never listen to them. But it’s not so strange that they are as popular as they are. After all these are the same people who think Pretty Boy Floyd, Bonnie and Clyde and Al Capone were entrepreneurs.

Good thing that global warming is a leftist myth.

Just a tad ahead of their time.

Northern Illinois ??? That sounds more like California and Santa Anna type weather.

I used to watch Washington Journal routinely. Really has changed a lot in the past 5 years.

I guess it could be worse. John McCain could be on every week…

(Runs away screaming.)

what time exactly in what time zone? that link takes me to lots of possibilities. i’d like to listen. can you direct further or give a more direct link?

*g*

Thanks for your “help” on Sat BS….Quite a ride.
BBL

Do you subscribe to the program? Or is it broadcast on WMNF?

You’ll have to share some of those photos with us, some day.

I stopped watching morning television when they took J. Floyd Muggs off. The only one who made any sense.

Thanks. Frankly, the book doesn’t lend itself to a forum like that. Unlike, say Krugman, where he can answer a question fairly substantially with a short paragraph answer, Jones’ book is pretty much all concept and answering a question could take pages to really make any sense. So many things interrelated that it’s difficult to discuss without having read the damn thing first. I really struggled for a week with coming up with questions that could possibly, repeat possibily, be answered with short answers.

Good morning, gw. Noted over the weekend that your doctor visit had a mixed result. I hope the new cast lining is giving you some relief, for the rest, seems like you have no choice but to buckle down for a long recovery. So sorry, dear one, this is the time to remember what a tough Brooklyn girl you are. ((((((gw))))))

Yes, ditto that, at risk of bringing unwelcome attention to Omi lol.

Smiley and West are Heroes.

Since everybody with a gun, a tazer or a firehose is a hero, those who speak the truth are also heroes (of a much rarer variety).

You did a good job; the intro. certainly got us going.
It was an interesting time…even if some cranks showed
up…imho. Thanks.

No, I just check the site frequently. Some of the shows are carried on WMNF. I heard this one yesterday morning on Revolution Times. I recognized Andrews’s voice right off the bat. He and I were pretty good friends while he was here. Nice man.

Oh gosh, he was something, wasn’t he? Do you think he was shooter in disguise? Or that alantxwhatever? It was like a two year old arguing over candy in the checkout lane.

For some reason I couldn’t comment again after I said he was rude. Things either just disappeared when I pressed submit, or I received an error message. You were great, though :)

Bonzo seemed smarter, but then he had Raygun as a foil.

Morning SD & Pupses…

DEAR AMERICA: You Should Be Mad As Hell About This

And Hedges…

I missed your note….How are you doing?

Some of us were able to get short answers, non-answers, and no answers lol.

You had the same problem didn’t you, at some point, not being able to comment?

Thanks, again. He was really loopy, almost like someone very young.
May be the case…or plain nuts. Who knows?

I had that commenting problem as well, lasted for a couple hours.

Im trying to leave;) Later, folks

You are welcome :)

Have a good morning, RevBev.

tough brooklyn girl! Hah! I should start looking for her remnants around the house and invest in some good glue!

i don’t think the new lining is any better than the old lining, but i’ll give it a couple more days and then see about going in to get a shorter cast with more padding over the wound and padding on the palm.

good mornin rc

hugs help!

and hugs back at ya.

It is listed at the 8:00 AM time slot CDT which is about 10 minutes from now. I think the shows are listed in the particular segment host archives later today in case you miss it.

Couple of trolls. I’ve seen one of ‘em here and there. Luckily most of it came after the saloon was over. I shouldn’t be but at times I’m shocked at the rudeness of some. Assholes prolly wear a hat at table, too.

just on time! thank you. i’ll see if i can tune in. thank you.

I lurked. You did a good job.

You know Ruth, I was thinking the same thing about the myth.
Sorry did not answer right away, had to step away from the computer to get a few things done.

Wow, excellent Chris Hedges article, Shoto, thanks for the link. Required reading.

Man, this vid is going viral. I see links to it all over the place.

x2

Yeah, glad to hear it wasn’t just me lol.

Hedges is really comin’ on strong. From a relative unknown a few years ago he’s all over these days.

i found it and am listening. thank you.

I’ve got an unlimitedd supply of hugs for you, gw, all ya gotta do is whistle. ;-)

X3

Great! That’s why dogs are the best thing on earth. (Sorry, cat people lol.)

Because strong, logical points still hold great attraction for rational folks, I would say.

In all sincerity, I would like to hear Van Jones and Chris Hedges talk together.

That made me cry. For all kinds of reasons.

Can imagine spuds’ pup when he gets back home. (He says thanks for making him cry.)

that’s fabulous!

Just got this one this morning:

This anti-wildlife bill would…

Waive Endangered Species Act protections within 100 miles of our borders — leaving jaguars, ocelots and other rare wildlife without a lifeline;
Overturn hard-fought, sensible rules that protect endangered sea turtles and shorebirds from being crushed by vehicles on Cape Hatteras National Seashore.
Hand over tens of thousands of acres of old-growth forest in the Tongass National Forest to be clearcut by a private corporation. These ancient forests are home to rare pine martens, grizzly bears and other wildlife — and provide clean water that salmon need to survive.

Stop the House’s latest wildlife attack

You pupses have a great afternoon. I’m going to see if listening to Richard Wolff on my iPhone will make the treadmill any less boring.

Safe travels and safe home, every pup.

Thanks again, SD, for working so hard every evening to get this place ready for us in the mornings. ((SD))

ohmmmm

SD. I thought you might have been irritated with me at the Book Salon, (maybe just at others less restrained), I did not think I was rude to the guest, and I thought my questions were important to ask while I had the opportunity. I got savaged at the Sunday News thread yesterday for daring to continue the discussion of how thoroughly people should get questioned at these things, which leads me to believe that some just don’t want the conversations to take place, regardless of venue. I don’t care anything for the opinion of such wannabe censors, but I do care about yours. Are we good?

Thanks. Signed petetion. The House has a super majority of assholes in it.

This is particularly sad. I worked with Sen. Yarborough to get those protections in the first place, back when decency generally prevailed.

I’d pay to witness that!!

Why do right-wingers hate all of God’s creations except themselves? :-(

Richard Wolff on the treadmill, or me hugging SD ?

*g*

I’d better *poof*

*g*

Sorry, should have been clearer-Hedges and Van Jones conversation. Not to say Jones is necessarily a bad guy, jusy really to say it’s kind of amazing that he seemed to think he should get instant cred with us just for having name recognition. We have a justified suspicion of anything with that D.C. smell on it, and anything with that Obama smell on it, and he has both, so he really should have been prepared to answer directly to some hard questions as to what he is really about beneath his current public face, IMO.

We’re good. What I’ve seen lately is that some have a tendency to just strike out, there were a couple at the saloon. When that happens others take it up and it turns the whole thing into a pissing contest, which nobody wins.

Lol! My fault, I didn’t look back at the #.

Sorry!

Yes, me too, truly.

Heh, I’m like Hobbes (of Calvin and Hobbes) when it comes to hugs and smooches from grrlls.

Sure does. then there’s this I heard on the TEEVEE this morning:

Man accused of beheading wife called ‘gentle’

Yeah, after years of “domestic abuse”, she finally gets it together to leave him and he BEHEADS her for his “honor”?
Apparently the law doesn’t allow men to kill (yet) women for trying to leave them and he’s in big trouble

Off to swim at the great capitalist cesspool.

US KIA Afghanistan: 2,2012

Afghan, Iraki, Yemeni and Pakistani casualties: estimates vary to over 1.5M

US MBS 2012: 20,956 and counting

No war but class war

Tam Lin

Be good to yourselves, and all other living things

Namaste

Never. Give. Up.

Good. I agree some got too “street” in their comments, but I can understand the anger. I do agree we need to observe decent limits when we get a high-profile guy to come talk to us, just not that he gets a pass for being high-profile.

Monday morning and greetings. I would like to just say that the Book Salons have become the high point of my weekends, and praise is due to SouthernDragon and backup crew for moderating the flow on Saturday. It can’t have been easy with the volume of comments that did come in. Bravo.

I think Southern Dragon’s point about the content of Mr. Jones’s book is well taken, especially in coordination with Shoto’s link to Chris Hedges, who really is talking about organizing as well, though a slightly different direction from him. Thanks for the link, Shoto. Elections and their outcome do seem to be cankicks, if I can shorten that concept. My thought on that is since they are, the system is going to have to self-destruct and we just have to prepare for that. Somehow. Not with a bang but a whimper. (Not to say I don’t still advocate third party voting; I do. But we have to be prepared for the inertia.)

The good thing is that gives plenty of time to get something going on a permanent alternative basis for society in general. So, it might be different from what Mr. Jones was proposing – something along the lines of the Hedges ‘plan’, though he’s left it suitably vague.

I love realitychecker’s Salon statement – going up on my old fridge, that one! (It’s still in place as I got a teeny one from Sears that is like the little engine that could, sitting in my livingroom.)

WE ARE NOT POTTED PLANTS

((((((juliania)))))) Glad I’m getting approval from the right people. ;-)

From the right fridge, you mean. And my grandkids come and read my fridge, little guys but they will get a kick out of that one, especially as that’s what my front yard is full of – potted plants! (Oops, no; I have never…)

:))

Not askin’ any questions lol.

Better get back to my fridge! The bulletin at the top says:

“…the Constitution… so long as we are a young and virtuous people, this instrument will bind us together in mutual interests, mutual welfare, and mutual happiness. But when we become old and corrupt, it will bind us no longer.”
Alexander Hamilton

See what company you keep?

Good morning, all.

Such disappointing news about Syriza losing, and I don’t know what to think about the MB win in Egypt. Strange times.

I imagine a lot of salon guests walking away bloodied and limping, and that’s when we are all on our best behavior. It takes an extraordinary amount of restraint to join a discussion like yesterday’s, which is why I lurked.

Feelin’ proud!

Yesterday’s? Bruce Schneer? (Hi ysd.)

Here’s where I have a problem with Hedges’s article. The Occupy movement never went away. Different locations coped with eviction and winter weather in different ways but began re-assembling in the spring. And the role changed as Occupy started participating stronger local coalitions for specific actions. Folks who might not go to a general assembly will show up at Occupy’s tweet or Facebook call to events in support of other local organizations. Neither Occupy Madison nor Occupy Milwaukee became completely engrossed in the recall campaign although a lot of the original occupiers of the State House did get caught up in the electoral solution, which was the tactic decided before Occupy Wall Street arrived on the scene.

The Occupy movement in Wisconsin is going to treat the election as a tactic that partially worked and move on to other tactics, beginning with a protest of the way that election was won without informed voter consent. The day after the vote that is where Occupy Milwaukee was and getting arrested for their protests. The issue of public space for sustained protest is becoming the Occupy movements organizing issue to help other members of the coalitions it participates in. Over and over that is the message in every march: There ain’t no power like the power of the people, and the power of the people don’t stop. Or: 1. We are the people. 2. We are united. 3. This occupation is not ending. That is education for the long haul.

The issue of co-optation is a deceptive one just like the issue of police snitches. Both can drive a movement into paranoia that prevents the creation of a coalition. The first also can be used by a minority that wants to co-opt a diverse movement. The second is a well-known police tactic for destroying movements with mutual suspicion and distrust. And both play in different ways on guilt by association and a sense of betrayal. Both depend on dividing people into factions.

A non-ideological, non-partisan movement can contain people who are very ideological and very partisan but who agree with the aims of the movement and are willing to work together and hash out a common position. It can contain people who understand the inside game well enough to know where pressure from the outside game can move things even when people are seemingly shut out of the outside game.

The Book Salon is one of Firedoglake’s inside game tactic, IMO. It is where polite and tough questions can have some impact if not on insiders at least on those who have conversations with insiders who want to know what is going on in the wider society. People with personal axes to grind generally don’t help that process because they forget that there are a lot of folks who strategically decided to play the inside game and who are occupationally stuck there; that is a way they support themselves and their families, and it is very difficult to transition in a down economy to something else. Also, a lot of them are still plugging away working for change in a very hostile environment. Prejudging where they stand and making blanket moral judgements of them can alienate potential strong allies who might be a better strategic position down the road.

When you are (one is) frustrated, it is very easy to make snap judgements that are incorrect. And we are all frustrated with the current political culture and the electoral situation this year. And we are angry because folks we thought we could trust turned out to be just instruments of K Street. In that sense, there probably has been more (inadvertent) transparency in this administration and Congress than in any previous period of history. We are suddenly coming face-to-face with a couple generations of betrayal that has been hidden. Even the cynics are learning stuff that is beyond their previous cynical interpretations. But jumping to the conclusion that nothing can be done is self-defeating and premature until you have tried absolutely every tactic.

The issue that we are dealing with is the political culture itself, not the individuals that the political culture selects for. Personalization of the problem leads to a fixation that distracts from what really needs to be done to the institutions behind the scenes that are pushing these individuals to the front. You decide where you stand (or fit) in the effort to bring about change but don’t begrudge or savage folks who have made different decisions so long as they are moving forward. Then deal with the issue; don’t write off the person.

Politics is and always has been about persuasion. There is an implicit assumption in politics that people can change as a result of political discourse. Writing people off shuts down that discourse and lets the other folks who have their ear prevail. What politicians have done through the systems established by their communications consultants and staff is write off 99% of the American people through overcontrol of their message and cutting off the media for really listening to what people are saying. They have created an environment in which only the conventional political wisdom gets through. That has made it much easier to sell out the public even when 10-15 years ago that was not their intention. People change, and not always in the most helpful direction.

Read Juan Cole on the MB win in Egypt. You now have a power struggle between MB and SCAF, which seized the legislative function.

Reports about Syriza looked like there was a deal before the election even began. And Syriza might be in better position in six months unless Golden Dawn support grows instead; folks long for law and order after protracted battles (remember Nixon).

Well said.

Thoughtful as always, TD, but we should not defer to a (possible) transition player’s personal needs, we should concentrate on our own. We can’t exclude the possibility that the Jones mission now is to get our votes for Obama, while PRETENDING to be about helping us plan to displace Obama and the other corporatists. How to know? Best way I know is to force him up against the hard moral choices, and see what he says and does when there is some cost in discomfort to giving an honest answer. When Jones says he’s a human rights attorney and will get around to speaking against drone murder, etc. EVENTUALLY, it says to me, at the least, he is still trying to play out of both sides of his mouth. So, we should know that and take it into account as we hear what he has to say.

I would note that it is a shame we have arrived at a place where we can’t automatically trust, but people like Jones have made a career hanging out with slick liars and spinners, and thriving, so we have to test him. I would also note that those people can be very rough with each other, so a guy like Jones probably feels our verbal sorties as something less than gnat bites lol.

Morning Diner pups. 104 posts already. Vigorous dis cussion taking place I like whattarheel dem said at101 (?)too. Was sorry to miss SD’s book salon maybd justas well. Haven’thad time to read it. Rdtty. Uch spe t the weekend non-politically. Now at work waiting for new omputer to be set up. So yes on the Kindle Fire again. Sorry.
Tried to win an iPad at Bar con ention. Failed. Never win anything. Oh well.

Trying to ease back into work mode ; thatbreak..trip to a new place…was just what I needed. So am ina pretty good mood.

GW..did youget a new cast? Hope you feel better soon.

It’s not all one way or the other rc. Jones’s commitment is to involving people of color in environmental justice and green economy issues. He started Rebuild the Dream in response to the Tea Party taking the 2010 elections in a lot of states, and he has more respect for where the Tea Party is coming from than most of Obama’s supporters. Moral choices are complicated and really not clear except in hindsight. You don’t have to press him to see the moral choices involved in continuing to support Obama; he gets it. He has just decided differently than you have. And he seems to feel that he still has some leverage in the inside game that you and I don’t have. I hope he’s right. If he is, we will gain in power. If he’s not, it will be irrelevant. He’s not going to get folks like you to suddenly up and vote for Obama. There are too many feelings of betrayal out there for that sort of co-option.

In politics, Ronald Reagan’s motto is always appropriate: Trust and verify.

These are social, not interpersonal relationships that always come with institutional baggage.

Tarheel Democrat @ 101

Although there is a great deal I disagree with you on in terms of Occupy, your comment is thoughtful and offers a lot to chew on.

In particular, I agree with you on this:

Prejudging where they stand and making blanket moral judgements of them can alienate potential strong allies who might be a better strategic position down the road.

If there is ever going to be a viable progressive movement in this country, the Left is going to have to give up its bad habit of alienating the persuadables.

Purity walls need to be torn down and bridges between common ground built.

I would add that his support for Obama may not have been so strident, for lack of a better word, if he didn’t realize just what will happen if the Tea Party people are the ones in control of Congress next term. Some people consider that fear mongering but a look at the current House and the shit they’ve tried to get passed tells a story unto itself. If these people get into power they will do what they’ve said they will do, it’s not empty campaign rhetoric. We ignore that threat at our own peril. It didn’t take Van Jones to convince me of that, he’s way behind me on that one. The Tea Party ideas/agenda scares me and I’m fearless.

One more thing. I’ve been saying it for years but I’m gonna repeat it. I’m not very interested in presidential politics. My focus has been and will continue to be on Congress. A strong Congress could have stopped many of Obama’s ill-conceived policies.

I’m with you, TD, and in your preceding comment as well. I am not an “all-or-nothing” type of guy, it’s ALWAYS cost/benefit with me. I was just trying to do the “verify” part, and I disagree about using moral issues as the tool for that-I find that what people are/are not willing to articulate as to basic moral positions usually acts as a pretty good “lie detector” in real life. Can’t give you proof, but I am comfortable with that approach. (E.g. Try getting an Obamabot to say, “I don’t mind if the Prez indefinitely detains me incognito. I’m sure he would have a good reason.” Ridiculous, right?) If Jones, or anybody, feels they can’t risk stating such basic moral positions out loud, maybe they are not appropriate leader material?

Understandable, SD, but then why would he, or we, not expect the People to have a strong reaction against those Tea Party horribles? Something is disconnected there, and I can’t think of any “good” possibilities for what the cause of that disconnection might be. It’s fair to hold people to the logical consequences of their arguments, isn’t it?

I think it’s all important. Strong Presidents get what they want.

Because the message is limited to the blogosphere and social media. The Tea Party agenda is on TV 24/7. The American public has been force fed this garbage for 40 years, they don’t know any better. That’s one of the reasons it’s so hard to get through to them on a one-to-one basis. They don’t have access to the info and, in many cases, too lazy to question what they’re told. What do you say to a guy who says, “If you haven’t done anything wrong you don’t have anything to worry about.”? How long will it take to break through that moral stance?

Be a long time before we see another LBJ, but my preference is just my preference, not trying to convince anybody else. It’s the primary reason I stay away from the electoral crap on the blogs.

That really is the moral decision that a lot of folks on the left are not facing up to, or better said dismissing too snarkily. Morality does not go far in politics because the moral choices are always complicated based on your personal situation in the scheme of things. For example, there it is a different moral situation to be in California or Mississippi and have to make a decision about the election than to be in a putative swing state. Folks in Florida have had this experience in 2000, without judging particular decisions that they made. And the moral judgement in hindsight is also very personal and individual and situation except in some very highly defined circumstances. Southern white folks whose ancestors fought for the Confederacy understand this issue of hindsight judgement as do the descendents of the conscripts in the Nazi-era Wehrmacht.

Aaargh! Dealing with putting a dog down today, and could have set that example up more clearly, but I expect you catch my drift anyway. ;-)

And there are a lot of down-ticket races that can be drastically affected by turnout. And those should also enter into people’s moral decisions.

Always a tough decision.

Not Riley? Say it ain’t so.

Reagan got what he wanted. Hell, even W got what he wanted. :-(

I think there were more things involved in both that had nothing to do with either of them being strong presidents, Reagan rode the new wave of neoliberalism that grabbed everybody like heroin, W had the fear of the brown people to get him what he wanted.

This stuff is hard, which is why we all need to argue in good faith and with some tolerance, my friend. Is the public smart, or stupid? Can they recognize when too much is too much, or do they just stay passive forever no matter what? If the latter, we are all wasting our time talking about it, aren’t we? (As an almost-humorous aside, Masoninblue got enraged at me the other day for saying, essentially, that juries are stupid. BUT, he and I well know that every lawyer and court treats every juror as though the juror was stupid. We use consultants to help us get the ones who are biased in our clients’ favor. But we always say they are smart in public. We gotta do better than that when it is about the future of the country.)

Yes, and both had Congress held by the opposition. But they were willing to be publically brutal to their opposition, so they maximized their power.

Look, we could go back and forth on this all day. You want to be right? Okay, you’re right.

NO, God forbid, it’s my gf’s female. She had an appointment to have a mobile vet come to the house and do it this afternoon, but we just re-talked it and she called the vet and cancelled. Hard ain’t the word, I spent the morning crying like a baby fer nuthin’! We’re now going to give her until the end of the week, and decide again. So, I’m gonna head for home now, maybe get back later. Peace to all.

It’s much easier when the 1% are on your side and telling you what to do. Reagan and W didn’t want anything more than to be President; the 1% set up the Congress to rush things through. This is not LBJ’s world anymore. Candidates don’t depend on party funds as much. A President threatening to withhold support doesn’t cut it; you saw that with Blanche Lincoln and Ben Nelson; the White House purchased their votes on the Affordable Care Act by supporting them. LBJ had Republicans he could work with; Obama has a stone wall except when he gives ground. Republicans enforce discipline through PACS, not RNC funds. There are no Democratic PACs that function the same way and have the clout to move members of Congress.

We always have the harder job and so do our allies.

Right, and there’s always other things involved. That’s why it perplexes me when so many get so hostile so easily if they encounter any disagreement. ;-)

Yes, that’s right, too. Learnin’ and teachin’, teachin’ and learnin’, repeat as needed lol. I’m glad we are all allies, I need the intelligent interaction more than I would ever need automatic agreement on all points. ;-) Gotta run. Namaste.

Oh, good, although it being gf’s pupper doesn’t make it any better.

ygm

So sorry to hear this.

What happened to wendy’s VanJonesing myFDL Diary…? 8-(

jaango has a diary up asking what happened to wendydavis.

I wasn’t on that thread. What happened?