Solicitor General Donald Verrilli, Jr. said at the conclusion of his oral argument on the Affordable Care Act:
There is an important connection, a profound connection, between that problem [that people don’t have health care because they don’t have insurance] and liberty. And I do think it’s important that we not lose sight of that. That in this population of Medicaid eligible people who will receive health care that they cannot now afford under this Medicaid expansion, there will be millions of people with chronic conditions like diabetes and heart disease, and as a result of the health care that they will get, they will be unshackled from the disabilities that those diseases put on them and have the opportunity to enjoy the blessings of liberty.
Transcript, p. 79-80. It sticks out in an otherwise dry, technical, and occasionally clumsy presentation as an eloquent way to explain the problem Democratic politicians were trying to solve with the ACA. It turns the discussion away from the language of the ACA to the real lives of human beings. Adam Liptak, reporting in The New York Times, says it was a way of addressing central concern of Justice Anthony Kennedy, whose jurisprudence turns on his concept of liberty.
Paul Clement for the anti-ACA plaintiffs argues about liberty also: “I would respectfully suggest that it’s a very funny conception of liberty that forces somebody to purchase an insurance policy whether they want it or not.” P. 85. Equally eloquent, but it doesn’t ring as true as Verrilli’s; after all, lots of states have motorcycle helmet laws, to the dismay of many riders. And we do have Medicare, which seems a lot like an insurance policy.
That clip from The Daily Show with Jon Stewart points out the contrasting positions: on one side, let’s help everyone get insurance; on the other: “Honestly, I will not comply with the law because I believe in freedom”. Freedom from buying health care insurance versus freedom from debilitating medical conditions. As Stewart puts it: “Tastes Great! Less Holocaust!”.
As we learned in a recent Book Salon on a book by Nicholas Wapshot, the big contest in economics is between John Maynard Keynes and Friedrich von Hayek. In The Road to Serfdom, Hayek lays out his main thesis: that economic freedom is the real freedom. Our financial resources determine the scope of the things we can do and have, and within their constraints, we have to figure out how best to satisfy our needs. We choose those things we want to have or to do, and forgo those for which we do not have the money.
It is this act of choosing the ends which are important to us that constitutes our exercise of our freedom. Hayek contrasts a free society with one in which those choices are made for us by others. Of course, for Hayek, the opposite of this free economy is collective ownership of the means of production, a society more like Soviet Communism than British or French socialism.
I doubt that any of us thinks letting someone else make all of the economic decisions about our private finances would be acceptable. At least there, we and the protestor have common ground. The question, as always, is one of degree. Hayek is one of those fear-mongers the right loves so well. Writing in 1944, he says that Britain and the US are treading the same path as the Nazis, that the seeds of socialism lead to collectivism and destruction of human freedom. That may be where we part company with our fellow citizen, the anti-ACA protestor. I don’t think the ACA will lead to communism.
Perhaps the anti-ACA protestor thinks collectivism is the next step, but I think her real motivation is the Hayekian principle: No one is going to tell Me how to spend My money. That idea is the justification for a lot of unpleasantness, like the guy who leaves an old car in his front yard because it’s His property and no one can tell Him what to do.
I have no idea how Justice Kennedy will resolve the question of whether someone can tell us how to spend our money, even when that somebody is Congress, in an enormous chunk of legislation. I’ll just say this. Even staunch libertarians agree that your freedom ends where my nose begins.
Or, as Hayek would say, your economic freedom ends where my bank account begins. The plain fact is that there is a lot of health care that doesn’t get paid for by the person who gets treated. That is ultimately reflected in the amount I have to pay for my health care, either in premiums or in taxes. Neither of those groups of protestors want to see people dying of untreated diabetes or high blood pressure. That woman who refuses to comply with the law, who doesn’t want anyone to tell her how to spend her money, needs to explain why she is perfectly happy to pay more for her health care because of all the non-payers.



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Thanks for calling attention to Verrilli’s point about freedom and health. Also at play is the insidious zero sum myth which persuades some that health care for the other will diminish health care for me.
Carry water much?
Even with the best of intentions it’s still an apologia for Obama selling us out to the insurance CEOs while simultaneously lying about doing so.
We will be required to buy insurance. They will still not be required to actually give us health care.
They can’t. They sell insurance, not health care.
The reason the uninsured pay more for medical care is not because of all of the nonpayers. It is because the uninsured person is up against the other groups (insurance companies) which can intimidate, coerce and threaten in order to obtain lesser prices from hospitals and doctors and medical supplies companies. The single uninsured person has less power and is exploited.
One of the other myths is that the uninsured person will receive the same quality medical care as the insured person when faced with a medical emergency. There is no law forcing hospitals to provide free care to people who are unable to pay for same; that’s why so many people die every year from lack of health care. The idea that healthcare is provided for free to meet the needs of the impoverished, uninsured is a MYTH.
Zapkitty has it right. The individual mandate without a true public option is fascism and indensible.
The problem is that having health insurance doesn’t mean that you can afford healthcare. Under the Obama program, no insurance company can drop you. On the surface that is correct. However, the insurance companies are in no way precluded from saying that the boil on your ass is a pre-existing health condition and charging you an exorbitant preminum to cover you; far more than you can afford and results in you dropping yourself from the insurance rolls. Then, you are going to charge people a penalty for not buying something that they can’t afford. Even folks with insurance are winding up in the emergeny rooms because their insurance deductable is high or they have insurance but no prescription drug coverage; not to mention the cost of the Dr’s visit itself and finding the time to leave work to go to an appointment. Many people don’t have any wiggle room when it comes to taking time off even for that.
Yes, they do. And if you don’t want to ride with a helmet, don’t ride. If helmet laws were really analogous to the ACA, they’d require my next door neighbor, who doesn’t ride, to wear one. It really IS that simple, even if you can get all kinds of lawyers who’ll talk about it for three days.
Although I never thought I’d say this, Justice Kennedy hit the nail on the head: can Congress create commerce in order to regulate it? Can Congress require everybody to buy health insurance because of the impact on interstate commerce once everybody has to buy it?
This isn’t the Civil Rights Act of 1965; Congress didn’t segregate the lunch counter, and then declare that segregated lunch counters interfered with interstate commerce.
And we aren’t talking here about Social Security and Medicare. They are financed by straight up taxes. Everybody seems to agree that Congress could simply impose a tax that would fund single payer. They wouldn’t be forcing people into the private market.
We can’t lose sight of the problem here. Set aside the parade of horribles that are trotted out by smirking pricks like Scalia. I am not at all worried that Congress is going to make me buy broccoli. The problem with this bill is that every single American is now a hostage to the private insurance industry. We know this argument isn’t really about covering everybody, because there are still going to be millions and millions of uncovered people by anybody’s estimation. We know it’s not really about funding health care, because health insurance companies have a fiduciary duty to their stockholders to do anything and everything they can to get out of covering illnesses. We know it’s not about getting people health care, because the bronze plan allows a family deductible of $11,900 on *top* of the premiums. Even my crappy HSA eligible plan only has a $5,000 family deductible on top of my $5,600 in premiums. Instead of getting a cold this winter, I ended up with walking pneumonia, because even when I knew it was turning into bronchitis I did not have the $125 to shell out to see the doctor, and another $45 for the antibiotics.
The bill is indefensible. This may be the one time in my life I ever agree with Scalia, Thomas, Roberts and Alito. Other than our opinions of this law, the only other thing we have in common is that we are all oxygen-breathing bipeds.
My home state of Michigan is about to repeal its motorcycle helmet law. The law would require helmetless riders to carry $20,000 in insurance, which won’t go very far toward paying the costs of their care if they suffer paralysis or some other permanently incapacitating injury.
I probably should have said this before, but I have absolutely no problem with mandatory helmet laws. I rode without my helmet once in Delaware, the closest non-helmet state to where I live. I was going to go ten miles to the Maryland border, where I’d have to put it back on. I don’t think I made it two miles. The beach was pretty, the wind was awesome, but all I could think about was Gary Busey, which was killing the buzz anyway. 11 years riding and I’ve never left the helmet strapped to the bike again.
Yes. I will be eligible for the “bronze” plan full of empty calories and will rent this plan from private profiteers at a private insurance company. Health care is really a privilege of the 1% elite class. They now hire-on a physician on a retainer for the year which is more lucrative for the non-altruistic, business-oriented doctor who engages in that practice. All others must fight with insurers, hospitals and doctors to extract accurate diagnoses, comprehensive treatments, and payment for health care costs. We already are serfs to the authoritarian practices of an insurance company/healthcare industry hierarchy which determines what we will know about our healthcare needs, how many doctors will be allowed to practice medicine, who will get factory assembly line services and who will actually see a doctor, who will get reimbursed and who will not. There won’t be anymore liberty in this system even if the ACA passes the legal tests.
I don’t disagree that the mandate as drafted is problematic. I’m certainly no fan of the idea. The real questions are intellectual honesty and the credibility of the Supreme Court.
Suppose that the Court struck down the mandate and left the rest of the statute standing, as Court-appointed amicus, Bartow Farr, argued so capably, and as was done by the lower courts in, I think, two cases.
Congress responds by amending the ACA to impose a special health care tax on every citizen, in an appropriate amount. If you have insurance meeting certain standards, you are exempt from the tax. I don’t see any constitutional issue with that, and as I understand it, neither would the lawyers for the plaintiffs and for the intervenor National Federation of Independent Businesses.
The test of the Court’s credibility doesn’t ride on bizarre and angels-on-a-pinhead arguments about liberty or abstractions in Constitutional jurisprudence. It rides on whether it abuses its powers. Striking down the statute is abusive. Striking down the mandate could be done with intellectual honesty of the only sort we can expect from human institutions.
It is also still possible for a family to lose everything they have on account of a serious illness, even if they carry insurance.
During the entire debate over health care reform, I didn’t hear anyone propose that the Bankruptcy Code be amended to provide relief to families who are saddled with huge debts to doctors and hospitals.
I don’t disagree with your assessment of the system. When the statute was going through the legislative process, we explored a number of really good ideas for better systems. They were all ignored, because of the forces you describe.
We got the ACA. Now, either we try to get it improved, slowly, frustratingly, and pushing against harsh and brutal economic forces, or we watch the Supreme Court bulldoze the only scaffolding we have for a better system. Not great choices.
The Court gave up its credibility when Scalia picked the winner of the 2000 election. Or, as Justice Stevens wrote in his dissent, “[a]lthough we may never know with complete certainty the identity of the winner of this year’s Presidential election, the identity of the loser is perfectly clear. It is the Nation’s confidence in the judge as an impartial guardian of the rule of law.”
Just so you’ll know, you can discharge health care debt in bankruptcy. The problem is that you only get to file every 8 years. If you have a chronic illness, that is a real problem.
There sure are a great many “intelligent” , “well intentioned” people who can’t seem to grasp the difference between health insurance and health care. Most of them wouldn’t be affected by this decision because they either already have an adequate insurance plan or can afford to purchase this overpriced commodity. Implement an effective plan that is paid for by government taxation. Just defund the MIC an adequate amount to pay for universal “Health Care” and let the parasitic private health insurance industry steal its money from another source.
Striking down an unconstitutional law is not abusive and mandating insurance purchase is not regulating commerce.
And I understand that you are here to report the “liberty” question presented to the Supreme Court and not to argue the merits of the bill. My frustration comes from the the obfuscation of the real issue of lack of medical care because the media focuses on other issues. As TammanyTiger said, we can lose our shirts and our homes to bankruptcy even with this new bill in place. I focus on class issues because I think they need to be outed. I focus on lack of minimal ethical standards for care in the health care system because I see them happening all of the time. I focus on the cost issues because you seem to think that you are paying for other ‘nonpayers” care when a) the hospital in my County had one of its most profitable years ever, b) the insurance companies had one of the most profitable years ever, c) there are restrictions on care given to lower income folks that you should be aware of and for which you are not paying a penny for when you pay your insurer. So boo-hoo, you are being ripped off and displacing your frustration on people who do not have the income coming in to make your misguided complaint. They are, however paying through the nose when they pay for care out of their own pocket.
I would like to add that America is as class-ist as was the U.K. before WWII, where Maugham wrote that a doctor would ask a fellow senior doctor, “in-the-know” if the patient who presented himself for care, was in fact, “Worth caring for.” In other words did he have any money, and was he a person “of substance”? Because now as it was then, the issue is access because of high status, and high status is determined by how much more money you have and if you have a great deal of money, you can go to the head of the line.
There are big differences between requiring someone to wear a helmet while riding a motorcycle and requiring people to purchase health insurance.
1. You don’t have to purchase a helmet, all you have to do is wear one, which means you can borrow it. Many motorcycle owners I know have a spare helmet they keep just for the occasional rider. (Esp. the hot chick they’re trying to impress with a ride.)
2. Even if you buy a helmet, you pay for it once, at a relatively low price, and then, by magic, it’s YOURS. The protection it affords doesn’t expire at the end of the month or the quarter if you don’t pay a fee.
3. You only have to buy a helmet if you intend to ride a motorcycle.
Constitutional, I guess, but manifestly cruel. The result would be the same. People would be forced to buy something they can’t afford and even when they stretch to buy it can’t afford to use it. Sure, there are subsidies, but there are only two ways to go on subsidies. If they are at a level that doesn’t take into account what it really takes to live in this country, with our $4 gas and our food prices that are inexplicably and invisibly inflating, then they are useless to most of us. If they are set to be used by families who are not yet going under, then we are paying income taxes to the government to have them paid directly to the health insurance companies to subsidize our premiums. If that is not a straight up wealth transfer from my pocket to Aetna’s, I’ve never seen one. And I could still be stuck with a plan that only pays 60-70% of my costs.
The problem with subsidies, also, is that somebody has to come up with a formula to figure out who gets them. The government is not very good at assessing the real cost of living. Ever owed money to the IRS? And subsidies are expenditures. They can always be trimmed under the guise of budgetary restraint.
I remember an occasion when I spent about 60 minutes in an operating room for a “procedure”. I left for home a couple of hours after that. The total bill from the hospital was almost $6,000. It was settled by my HMO for one-tenth that amount. That’s right–one-tenth of the amount. Had I been uninsured, I’m certain I would have had to pay the entire $6,000. No one has ever been able to explain to me why the same procedure should cost ten times more for a person without insurance.
Excellent points all.
Just one point to add: really hot chicks already have their own helmets, and their own bikes. It’s equally true that the hotness bar is completely reset when a guy sees a woman on a motorcycle.
Because this issue continues to be misrepresented over and over… by those claiming to be “liberal/progressives”…
HEALTH INSURANCE IS NOT HEALTH CARE !… HEALTH INSURANCE IS A SCAM !
Everything else… including the corrupt piece of crap bill forced on us by Obama and the Democrats and Republicans is a SCAM.
Health care is so vitally important to all humans that it is a “common good”… a right of all people.
Health Insurance on the other hand is a common ordinary scam. Health Insurance is the middleman scam. Health Insurance companies take money out of the system but serves no real purpose. Rather that the patient paying the doctor or hospital directly the middleman gets in between and takes money in return for then handing the money to the doctor or hospital. The health insurance companies serve NO REAL PURPOSE WHATSOEVER. They are just moneysucking middlemem. The money they take would be much better spent going directly to the health service providers [doctors and hospitals} thereby leaving more money for service and real health care rather than spending in on middlemen doing... NOTHING.
Most advanced countries governments have the common sense to know this... except our own... the totally corrupt American government.
The American people want REAL healthcare reform. Instead what we have gotten is corruption from our totally corrupt Democratic and Republican government. And they obviously intend to mandate [force] the American people to waste more insane amounts money… on a scam called health insurance… which does nothing.
Universal Health Care is the ONLY solution… eliminate the middelman… they do nothing.
Wow. The French add two words to Liberty to make sure she can stand up straight: Equality and Brotherhood. You were not given equal status to the insurance co.. Quakers in England achieved considerable notoriety among the rich elites when they charged only one price, the same price, to all of their customers, rich and poor. That threatened to impoverish the Establishment which relied on cronyism to maintain its separate status.
I was treated by a radiologist for Stage 4 cancer two years ago and I had no insurance. I told him I was self-pay and these were the prices I was quoted for the seven week, five day a week treatment: w/insurance – $60,000; w/Medicare – $30,000; w/self-pay(paid within 1 month) – $13,000. Consequently, I was able to afford the “cure”. Always ask for the best price.
Good stuff…
Reality… and common sense… something in short supply here.
And a great example of the scam called “health insurance”.
I don’t have a problem with paying for health insurance. Where I have a problem is paying extortionate premiums. And the rates are not going to go down because of ACA, they are going to go up no matter what, as long as private insurance companies are involved. Except now we are going to be penalized for not being able to afford insurance. As long as health insurance is in private hands, there will always be affordability problems, because there is going to be manipulation of rates for the sake of profit. That is why the only way this can function is if the government takes over health system, to take profit motive out of it. Just this past week I saw some figures about health costs in the developed countries, and France has health costs that are close to half of what they are here. I have been in a hospital in France, and spent 3 days there, for a procedure where a doctor here told me this would be an office visit. And he was laughing at how inefficient their system is. But I can bet anything that this same procedure, with 3 days stay in the hospital still costs less than one hour procedure in doctor’s office here. The health system is surrounded by sharks who are feeding off it, and everyone is blaming everyone else for the exorbitant cost of health care. The government has the power to control everyone’s greed, if it chooses to, but it gave up that power because our politicians are larded by bribes we call political contributions to do nothing while the whole thing is dysfunctional. We know how to solve the problem, but are paralyzed by greed.
Thanks
History… has the answers. Amazing how many people know nohting about and have no interest in history.
The first step toward improving it is to eliminate the mandate. Then increase the subsidies
The issues of intellectual honesty and credibility… lie with ONE PERSON…
Barack Obama. He has neither.
He sold out the American people… to the health insurance industry.
With the Bankruptcy Reform Act of 2005 — passed with the votes of my two “liberal” Democratic senators — it’s harder than ever to get a fresh start by filing for bankruptcy. But given that the only Obamacare policies tens of millions of us will be able to afford are the bronze-level plans with a 60% actuarial value, and given Obamacare’s exceedingly high caps on out-of-pockets, almost as many of us are going to be filing for “medical” bankruptcy as before. (With the advent of Romneycare, the percentage of bankruptcies filed for medically related reasons in Massachusetts dropped an unimpressive 8 percentage points, from ~59% to ~51%.)
Now that the way to freedom has been made clear, How do I get my freedom from paying for someone’s shitty private wars?
Obamacare is a triumph of inverted fascism. Forcing people to buy (and taxpayers to subsidize) grossly overpriced, grossly underprotective private insurance may have been the only health-care reform Congress was capable of delivering, but it’s a sad reflection of how far to the right the Democratic Party has moved since the days of FDR and LBJ.
I’m happy for Obamacare’s poster-child beneficiaries — new Medicaid patients, people with pre-existing conditions, people threatened with rescission, young adults on their parents’ policies, and the like. But what the Act gives us on balance is a system that provides coverage ranging from clearly inadequate (bronze) to very good (platinum) to around 91% of the population at a cost of over 20% of GDP. When you compare that to the health-care systems of other developed countries — which provide coverage ranging from very good to excellent to 100% of their populations at an average cost of 10% of GDP (12% of GDP at the high end) — you realize that the American for-profit health sector is siphoning at least an extra trillion dollars a year out of our pockets (20% minus 12%, times our $14.7 trillion GDP). Tune out all of the party-loyalist talking points and it’s hard not to suspect that protecting that $1 trillion skim was the legislation’s core guiding principle all along.
Glad you mentionned Massachusetts…
Mass… HAS THE HIGHEST HEALH CARE COSTS IN THE NATION !
This is what Obama has forced on us.
If you don’t have insurance most all doctors will lie to your face and tell you they’re giving you a discount when you’re actually paying 3-4 times more than insurance companies pay them. Contrary to popular belief some responsible people choose to opt out of buying medical insurance and pay their medical bills out of pocket. Granted they’re not paying for triple by-pass surgery, but then they’re not getting struck by lightning anytime soon either.
All this will be is a bigger welfare program where the Wall Street Government connects one of its suck funnels to the bank accounts of every breathing person that they let live. Effectively taxing the poor for inferior down graded care which is already inferior as profit trumps healing a trillion to one.
That’s not really true. The hospital billed $6000, but the $600 paid for the cost of the O.R. with staff. Doctor’s do ‘charity’ procedures all the time, and get little more than O.R. paid. My business partner had to buy some medicine, it was something like $140 with insurance, and something like $40 without insurance. There’s a huge game being played between pharmacies, hospitals, and insurance companies. The real costs of medicine, care, and procedures only enters into the back-and-forth at the end, but the constant price jockeying makes everybody’s books look good.
Canadians are crazy.
http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/msp/infoben/benefits.html
That’s the British Columbia site.
Here’s how crazy they are (http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/msp/infoben/premium.html):
Line 1: Adjusted Net Income
Line 2: Subsidy Level
Line 3: One Person
Line 4: Family of Two
Line 5: Family of Three or More
$0 – $22,000
100% premium assistance
$0.00
$0.00
$0.00
$22,001 – $24,000
80% premium assistance
$12.10
$21.80
$24.20
$24,001 – $26,000
60% premium assistance
$24.20
$43.60
$48.40
$26,001 – $28,000
40% premium assistance
$36.30
$65.40
$72.60
$28,001 – $30,000
20% premium assistance
$48.40
$87.20
$96.80
Over $30,000
Full Rate
$60.50
$109.00
$121.00
———————————————
So if you make under 22k, you get full assistance. Crazy right?
22k to 30k, you get some assistance.
And over 30k? Well, you pay the full rate:
single – 60.50
family of 2 – 109.00
family of 3 or more – 121.00
That’s all PER MONTH.
Crazy right? I mean, how can the 1% make a profit in that environment?
But no worries, I hear Harper is 1) working behind the scenes to gut the system, and 2) his first attack is already under way, and they’ve started to starve the health system of funds, … just like they did here with education. (BTW, they’re going after education in Canada the same way right now.)
And most Canadian, like most Americans, are blissfully unaware.
They also have a housing bubble. And no one’s doing anything about it.
It’s like watching lemmings running off the cliff.
Oh Canada, you’re so skrewed.
That would make an excellent post with just a bit of editing. Thoughtful comments like this one often do, and they help a lot more people.
thanks, but I’ve already made this info. into a diary a while back.