Thanks, Elliott, so glad Bill Moyers is back, even though it’s pretty obvious that wingnut voters only watch any of this news thingie to find out what they reject as librul.

Good morning all. A toasty 4.5 here.

Typo alert in Palast. Mods can erase this when it is fixed.

Here it’s balmy again, 50F. My flowers are back to trying to get up and blooming, while I’m trying to keep them from freezing when it turns back into winter.

Supposed to get up to 30 today. Can’t wait. Furnace going off every 15 minutes. Let Cahnstance out (on her asking) and she was back inside in 5.

Croatia will vote in favor of joining EU today. WTF are they thinking.

Good morning, pups. It’s The Pasty Little Putz, Dowd, Friedman, Kristof and Bruni today. In “A Good Candidate Is Hard to Find” The Pasty Little Putz whines that in both parties, there is a long tradition of underwhelming nominees. Listen up, Putz — I’m 66 and never has there ever been a collection of clowns and losers like your party has vomited up. I hope you’re happy. MoDo has a question in “Showtime at the Apollo:” Could 2012 be a race between two powerful victims yearning to be lonely at the top? The Moustache of Wisdom has it all figured out. In “American Voters: Still Up For Grabs” he opines that if presidential candidate would adopt his four-part agenda, he would surely be the winner on election night in November. Mr. Kristof, in “How Mrs. Grady Transformed Olly Neal,” says teachers have the most important job in America. To understand why, listen to the story of Olly Neal, whose life was turned around by an English teacher. Mr. Bruni, in “Of Mouselike Bites and Marathons,” discusses lessons from Paula Deen on indulgence and its consequences. Take it from someone who lives in her town — Paula Deen is a blight on the landscape. And for bonus points her accent is as phony as a $3 bill.

Here they are.

The coffee, tea and hot chocolate are ready, and I’ve got waffles with warm maple syrup today. I hope all you northeastern pups manage to stay warm. Just thinking about that cold makes me shiver. Last night we had rain and wind that came on suddenly, and hence some damp, annoyed kittehs. I’m off to get more tea. Have a great day.

Thanks, Marion – ‘grabs’ the new term for ‘will work for food’?

Newt to be on C-Span this AM Scully said. Looking forward to caller comments. Hope he is “gutted” like so many Americans have been gutted, left laying on the road like a dead dear carcass.

Thanks for keeping us in the know…no, Marion.

Just finished reading Kristof’s Half the Sky. Highly recommend.

Home heating oil is $3.65 per gallon. A cord of wood, $250.00. Nice and cozy here. Did not spend a dime on heat other than my own labor, time, and chain saw! Self reliance is a good thing. Servitude, to corporations suck. Servitude to corporation who buy law with the monies extracted from USA, sucks even more!

All criticism will be characterized as the librul lazy good fer nothin’ FoodStamp left, for the delight and entertainment of the lizard minds that dote on him for this.

9:45 AM Newt C-span.

Newt blames the left, the media, anti religious activist judges, as Nazi’s blamed the Jews for conditions in Germany? Newt is a virus, in need of a contagion.

Terror alert, huh?

Jeff Sharlot’s on book-tv and he’s really good.

Glazed eyes clouding your vision?

We’re s’posed to go to the 70s…we’ll see. Good Morning All.
Is it possible Newt could be Pres? I should live so long….

Scary. Listening to the crowd cheering him on was just creepy.

Supposed to go up to 47 tomorrow. That would be from 4 to 47 in 36 hours.

Another debate tomorrow = great fun here. Newt will be hot,
I imagine.

Thanks Elliott.

The breathtaking stupidity of South Carolina rebuplicans is a bit overwhelming this morning.

Recycling a comment from AitchD last night. A Gangrene presidency is not farfetched.

What if the PTB think O will be an unknown quantity and a risk as a lame ducky? They know Gingrich is a whore’s whore and will do whatever they want. And they can (s)elect anyone they want.

I hope it’s farfetched…But SC has quite a record of
choosing the nominee…Makes my head ache….

Rabid, anyway.

God! How can anybody watch that crap?

“The breathtaking stupidity of South Carolina rebuplicans is a bit overwhelming this morning.”

Fixed it for you.

Watching Up with Chris Hayes is nice, they even know who the much booo-ed Saul Alinsky really is. Unlike last night’s crowd.

I think Im in shock…Remember for a time it was an issue that Reagan was divorced….Newt has been a nightmare for years…and here we are.

Newt won SC with the help of low income voters. Newt might accuse us of class warfare but he has no problem benefiting from Mitts tax returns

That is certainly a true statement, as amended by you, but what is equally troubling to me is that the people who are still supporting Obama are just as stupid. Over and over, I find that latter group to be ignorant about the facts as to what Obama has actually done with his Presidency. And they want to stay ignorant. I believe that IT IS NEAR IMPOSSIBLE TO ARTICULATE OBAMA’S TRUE RECORD, AND THEN STILL SAY THAT YOU WILL VOTE FOR HIM. (I just got permanently banned from the TBoggateria yesterday because I insisted on pointing out this stupidity, but it is rampant, and not just on TBogg’s threads.) I understand that it is scary and difficult to say no to Obama, and then not know what to do next, instead, but stopping your cooperation with an abusive relationship partner is the necessary first step in any recovery process. Only after you are “freed” from that unwholesome influence can you truly see what your real alternative options are.

Come on people. Newtie isn’t going to be president anymore than I am.

Also a small number, just had this pointed out;
‘Not the media will mention this in their primary hype – but the Rethugs are generally staying home. Total number of voters yesterday in SC was 434K – in 2000 it was a little over 500K and about 455K in 2008.’

But we’re writing you in, remember?

Good morning. Right you are. Newt, like all the rest of the worst, is all and only about winning the moment.

One would think…but how does he happen even to be in the “hunt”?

That is certainly a true statement, as amended by you, but what is equally troubling to me is that the people who are still supporting Obama are just as stupid.

While I’ll stipulate to that, I’m getting heartily sick of every topic becoming a bash Obama forum. Discussing the Talking Heads? Time to tell us what a traitor BHO is. Talking about Newt Gingrich? Better bring up what an asshat Obama is. A conversation about the stupidity of Republicans? Can’t let that go without bashing the stupidity of Obamabots. Discussing the age of the universe? It’s mandatory for somebody to segue into how Obama and his supporters have betrayed the country. I’m not going to defend Obama and anybody who is marginally intellectually honest and has been paying attention would never suggest it but it’s getting so. Fucking. Old.
Please find another tune to sing. Just once.

He’s “in the hunt” because that what Chuck Todd and his cadre of pearl clutchers are saying. He won’t get any delegates from Virginia though and even if he gets the nomination, do you seriously expect him to be able to bring off a win, even with all of the disappointment in Obama?
EDIT: I should add that Newtie hasn’t gotten to the bible belt yet, with the exception of Iowa where his showing was pretty poor.

No idea, really. Who would ever have seriously expected his renewal? It’s like who would expect Palin? The world has gone crazy…Maybe some prelude for Jeb….At this point nothing would surprise me…though it always does;)

Thank you, has much in common with the Ron Paul booster bunch. But I do not agree that intellectual dishonesty is involved in seeing going on 70 years of U.S. history and determining that Pres. Obama would be a much better choice than any of the others.

Bill Moyers is a beacon in the darkness – I love being able to see him three times a week! (Thank you, KUNM.)

And Ruth, you do know that spring bulb flowers bloom through snow cover? Just saying it would take extreme weather to daunt them so give them a good mulch and let them do their thing. (By the way it is now early spring not midwinter. Midwinter was halfway between Thanksgiving and Christmas. I know whereof I speak since the earth is currently whipping around the sun and winter in the northern hemisphere is therefore much shorter than any of the other seasons. Think outside the Box.)

I share your frustration, Margaret, but that is where we are. If you want to get people to change long-held delusions about what makes sense, you need to keep bringing the topic up. I’m sorry, but I think this is important. I see an election cycle where we are going to re-elect Obama because the Obamabots I am complaining about will not change their current thinking. That will be more frustrating to me than my monotony is to you. And bad for the country. I would also point out to you that it is not always the same theme with me, I have also been arguing recently that it is good for Ron Paul to stay alive as long as possible in the election cycle, because that is the only way there will be ANY discussion of the issues he and only he is good on, namely, foreign wars, rule of law, accountability, drug war, and runaway Fed. I find people’s responses to that argument to be just as stupid, and they get just as irritated with me for bringing it up as you are here. Sorry, but this is where I think my voice needs to be focused right now. That’s two different big and important themes. At least I’m not cluttering up all these threads with detailed discussions of my personal life, right?

I wonder how many of the people who are now so ostentatiously telling us how big a disappointment Obama is and how stupid his supporters are the same ones who used to call me, (and others critical of Obama), “racist” and “troll” on this very same blog because I had pointed out that Obama is less “Progressive” than Ronald Reagan back in 2007/2008? It’s been a long time ago so I don’t specifically remember pseudonyms of many of those who were vociferously involved but I’ll bet there’s some significant overlap.

You misunderstood. I said that nobody with a shred of intellectual honesty would accuse me of being an Obama booster. Sorry I was unclear.

Super Tuesday could give him hope to stay in the race for awhile. Hate has been working for Newt to get votes the others in the GOP race I am sure noticed that. They will all turn up the dial to 11 on hate to compete with Newt on Super Tuesday.
That gives FDL a reason to be worried. I do hope your right about Newt. Mitt is probably going to drop his biggest guns against Newt that his private eyes can find now both personal and corporate crime.

Thanks, though last year I lost much of my usual narcissi bloom to a freeze, and this year my hyacinths and snowbells are getting too close for comfort to bloom. Good thought, I do think of the flowers getting ready and feel like spring, but February and March can bring some surprises.

I’m betting it will get harder before it gets better, realitychecker. That’s part of knowing how really valuable free speech is, as well as an appreciation of the many reasons people vote. I think the trick is compartmentalization – don’t know if that’s a word but spellcheck okayed it so it must be. No one is saying Obama isn’t warm and friendly to his wife and kids being a human being in that critical area. But he sure sucks at the president thing and I haven’t called him that since the inauguration. And that’s what you vote for, not for the essence of familyness. (Oops, spellcheck didn’t like that one – too bad.)

It’s the Not Willard crowd speaking up is all. If Willard gets the nomination the a huge percentage of Republican voters are going to stay home, being unable to move past the magical undies. And Willard isn;t helping anything by running on the size of his wallet. He did it again this very morning. Read this one:

He avoided offering the returns from any years prior but explained that all the investments and taxes were paid in the United States and “you’ll see it’s a substantial amount.”

(my bold)
“You’ll see it’s a substantial amount? Only a clueless 1 percent moron like Romney would be tone deaf enough to add that

Stop it. Newtie isn’t even on all of the ballots on Super Tuesday.

Seems I mis-read, thank you.

Just to be clear, that’s not me. I was also dubious about Obama as being too corporatist, although I did vote for him finally, out of lesser-evilism. Exactly what I want Obamabots to refrain from doing now. ;-)

Sure can – spring surprises, hence the name. :))

(Seriously, just sticking to my nomenclature and watching the increasing light sure helps me get over those ‘midwinter’ blues. I’ve planted peas already! Those late freezes ALWAYS hit us here in the mountain west, always. But I’m not gonna keep calling it winter just because of that or it would be winter till May every year.)

If you want to get people to change long-held delusions about what makes sense, you need to keep bringing the topic up

Then I have to ask why you are doing so here? There may be four or five regulars here that still at least marginally support Obama but Daily Kos is literally teaming with them. Yet you come here to preach to the choir. I don’t think you’re trying to change opinions so much as ensure that we are all thoroughly nauseated by the time the election rolls around

Is that funny…guys just have to say Mine is bigger than yours…Yes, tone deaf and sleazy….

Yeah, I’m so done with the lesser of two evils. When you vote that way the one result you can count on is “evil”.

Here, my own veggies have done some of the planting themselves, as I get local farmers’ seeds and they do reproduce. So planting some of your own just helps them along.

And while I appreciate that, please note that we are on the same side and in the same boat. Don’t let my disgust fool you though. It’s rooted in disgust at the depths of dysfunctional stupidity into which our leadership caste and their toady media have descended. I just don’t feel like that needs to be hammered into the regulars with such mind numbing frequency.

As usual, I agree with you and your perceptions. Looking forward all week to hearing about what a great crooner Obama is. Who the fuck cares? (Incidentally, that was the theme of the TBogg thread where my attempts to break thru the stupidity cloud got me banned.) Obam’s destroying our freedom more effectively than any Rethug could.

Thanks for the talk of Spring…it is quite dreary here. Rain in the forecast for this week, s’posedly not today. But still dreary.

We are under high wind warnings for today too. It’s time to look for those signs of spring for sure.

Margaret, I assure you there are more than 4-5 Obamabots reading these threads. I’m biting my tongue to keep from saying something to you right now, so maybe you should just back off.

I think we are on the same side, and fighting with you is the last thing I want. Let me do what I think is good, and I’ll let you do what you think is good, and we can retain our respect for each other. OK?

Keeping in mind that we are still in January until next week, look at these temperatures. The evidence for climate change is overwhelming and Obama and the Republicans are still trying their best to sell us the Keystone boondoggle and gut environmentally friendly initiatives. THIS is the true crime, the crime that will have no redress, no amelioration. The climate will still be all fucked up even if we elect the most benevolent, science friendly candidate to ever hold office in human history. And that’s the long and short of it.

Please don’t bite your tongue it’ll bleed. Tell me what’s on your mind. Want to call me names? I’m used to it. Want to treat me like shit? Get in line with everybody else. I’m not going to shut up or attenuate what I say out of fear that somebody is going to be mean to me and I’m absolutely NOT going to “back off”. I have my big girl pants on. Say what’s on your mind.

Morning Elliott & Pups of Fire:

What, no John McCain and Holy Joe? I haz a sad…

On the other hand, Bill Moyers is back on the air. And it does bear mentioning that Gretchen Morgenson, is also The Real Deal.

Bring it.

No doubt…Im just such a hermit when it comes to cold weather. My b’day is mid-March, and that can be totally unpredictable…has been warm spring or still very wintry cold…Plain ol’ TX weather…but I understand what you’re saying in the way “no one” is really paying attention. Everytime it gets really cold someone rants about climate change.

Some one responding in a civil manner to your attack should ‘back off’? Thanks for showing your bad taste in such unequivocal manner.

It’s time to look for those signs of spring for sure.

It’s January 22! And yes, I have signs of Spring. I saw a bluebonnet, (plant, not blossom), yesterday.

Whilst campaigning to prevent it, still let’s brace ourselves for a second dose of this charlatan and start figuring on the next moves. (It will give the puppetmasters a bit of a sour taste to witness our lack of dismay and increasing determination. ) I had a friend who never recovered, sadly, from Bush’s re-election – we can’t get blasted off course that way. A minimum of histrionics will be the order of the day. Give them a Pyrrhic victory, whoever they claim we’ve ‘elected.’ We’ve come quite a ways already along that path.

I think the best that can be done is vote for true progressives, being aware that it will take something miraculous to succeed this time round but we’ll have something to build on and who knows, maybe impeachment will get traction as things get worse. We’re so lucky not to know exactly how it will pan out. We could even sweep the blighters out!

No less evil evils this time around – I was hoodwinked enough to think Obama not that, though I did think it of Kerry. Boy was I wrong. Not good at shell games; I need lots of help.

Both parties and all candidates in them are just plain and simple all evil (or minions of evil, which is the same thing) so far as electing OUR representatives is concerned. Except maybe Bernie, but maybe we should have new blood there as well and let the poor guy off the hook. Boy, I love the idea of a totally clean slate. I could really pay attention to that.

Yep. It gets cold in January and somebody will always say, “So much for global warming” but three weeks of Spring temperatures in January along with a record breaking drought and those same people say, “Isn’t this some nice weather?”

News…Paterno dies….

Everything’s better with Blue Bonnet on it.

Wait. What?

Just to point out, Margaret – I think those who actually post are the tip of the iceberg here, so the choir might be larger than you know, with some who don’t carry a tune well still coming to read and get info. I know I did that for a long time. And I want to hear opposing views, am often impressed by a poster’s willingness to listen to a factoid he/she/he didn’t already know. I think Obama supporters are doing a really precarious balancing act and very worth paying attention to, given that once they decide against him they are not going back, not ever.

The sad thing is that I remember the packaging and the jingle. ugh!

My vincas have shown blossoms, and the tiny periwinkles. Of course, my roses are still in a really bedraggled bloom.

No, because I meant what I said about not wanting to fight with you, and that includes not needing to criticize anything about you. We are on the same side, generally speaking, and I prefer to keep it that way. I know we can both deploy very sharp elbows when we want to, but I do not think it wise to do so against those I consider to be friends, and I do consider you a friend. My only point was to be against telling another commenter what not to comment about.

But, but, but he’s not cluttering up the threads with personal information!

That’s two missteps by you in just a few moments.

Okay, just to point out what I actually said:

There may be four or five regulars here that still at least marginally support Obama but Daily Kos is literally teaming with them.

I wasn’t attempting to address the possible number of lurkers or one off visitors as I’m in no position to intelligently evaluate those, lacking any relevant data. Opposing views are one thing but flogging the same old dead horse over and over is something else altogether. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for realitychecker but that doesn’t prevent me pointing out when I think things have gotten a bit overboard just because I like somebody. Ask Kelly.

Probably what’s making us all nauseous is the Republican dog and pony show, which even Amy Goodman is devoting more time to than it deserves. It’s so hard for me to remember that way, way back in the day I actually looked forward to the election season when speeches of the caliber of Bill Moyers’ bookend remarks were to be savored. Money wasn’t speech then; eloquence was speech, and you had to have it. MacNeil-Lehrer report, where are you now?

Hey, wait…Are you the ump? We really do not need that here. (Yep, I do not have a dog in this fight.)

You are not impressing me with your taste, judgment, or intelligence, and you think you’re keeping some kind of score?

I’m putting a lot of hope into the Occupy movement (where else could one put any hope?), in large part because I think that is the best route to raising overall awareness in the public. But you are right, there is no rational basis for thinking anything good will happen soon. Which is probably why everybody, including me, is getting a bit irritable. OK, a lot irritable. ;-)

Sorry that’s what you got from my criticism. I too look askance at content trolls but content trolling wasn’t my goal. I think fundamentalist Christians are one of the biggest dangers a free society faces and I’m just as passionate as you are about Obama’s betrayals and failures and even more passionate about science denial but after a while, even the best made, most cogent and factually supportable point in the world will start to turn people off and have the opposite effect than what was intended. A perfect example is the rabid Ron Paul crowd who have long since dropped any pretense of “having a conversation” and have moved into the realm of full time cheerleader/defender.

That was my point.

OK, if I’m the problem, I’ll just leave this thread. I’m not about the weather or the flowers anyway. This whole thing started because my political comments were pointed to as being out of place on a thread about who will be on the news shows. The gratuitous and unnecessary backbiting that has followed serves no useful purpose. Margaret, I am at peace with you. ((Margaret))

Margaret, it isn’t “old” to point out Obama’s negativities on a forum discussing the political arena. You don’t have to read the arguments if you are tired of them. It may seem excessive to you, but really there are few ideas more important and with the attention of the media focussed on glossing over these points, I don’t think it is fair of you to be upset that it keeps coming up. This forum is very much a daily thing – here today and gone tomorrow as this thread of arguments will be. We have the attention of some people for the time they have to read through what is on here, and to my mind that audience is more important than those who are having a conversation with one another on this forum. And there will be, today, people here reading who haven’t been here before. They are important to me, and I think to you also, because they are probably still making up their minds, many of them.

How are we going to compete with the media else?

But please, just skip over the posts that irritate you, like mine and those of others who still think this topic is important. I have to admit I skip over the Republican race to’s and fro’s, but that’s just me and I shouldn’t disparage those who think it is important still. We’re all entitled to an opinion, so apologies for my ‘dog and pony’ comment. Just an opinion, no more.

If you’ve been up all night with scary wind as we have here, no doubt it’s the agitated ionosphere. We’re only human after all.

‘to my mind that audience is more important than those who are having a conversation with one another on this forum.’

Please note, as Jane points out, this is a community. We are all important. If the long term members are being told to clam up, that is not a contribution.

Where are you? I had not heard all that….

The breathtaking stupidity of South Carolina rebuplicans is a bit overwhelming this morning.

Hope you don’t mind OnS just a little adjustment. :)

Hey, Pop, Welcome…

Ruth, I am a long term member, have been here every single day since at least 2005 (albeit I used to use a different handle), and have never commented anywhere else online. And this unpleasantness started with me being told to “clam up.” So, I don’t know what you are trying to say or imply, but I feel like I have to disagree with it. But, can’t we all just raise our level a bit? Nobody believes in this community more than I do, can we act like we all believe in it? Petty pointless attacks don’t strengthen the community, they weaken it. juliania has, by example, shown us all the way to deal with each other with grace, elegance, balance, and respect. Let’s try to emulate her example, we will all be better for it.

You have not been told to ‘clam up’, and saying it was a start to the unpleasantness is simply not true. You were told that when you are interjecting something into every comment thread you’re on as a bashing of Obama, it gets old. I think it would help you see things from a better perspective if you take that seriously. Raising our level a little bit would certainly be a good result, and if you weren’t attacking other commenters here, that will also be a good result. Yes, I entered in after got into insults; ‘ At least I’m not cluttering up all these threads with detailed discussions of my personal life, right?’ and at 60 ‘back off’. If this is raising things a level, maybe knowing which way is up would be a good start.

We obviously differ as to where the attack/criticism began, so we are seeing the flow differently. You might want to re-read the thread. In any event, we should all be more restrained about lashing out at each other. We don’t get to have perfect allies, any more than we get to have perfect family. We can’t afford to get all pissy with each other over such trivial shit. Rather than defend myself, which I could do, I am just going to leave this behind and try to follow my own advice about getting along better with everybody here.

Hey Bev hope you are doing good. Sorry I am late in responding I was at an occupy Lowe’s protest in solidarity with the Muslim community this morning. I was really cold as well. *g*