Morning, BT.

Wow, TX Republicans and stupid threatening remarks esp. in mid-Nov. Is it something in the weather? ….Makes one sooo proud.

Morning BT.

As a transplant to the US I never agreed with the 2nd amendment, but have since changed my mind. We have an out of control govt and a corrupt system, and if it comes to it people have the right to defend themselves. All the power and weapons should not be in control of one side. Of course gun violence is a problem, but criminals will always find a way to get them, especially when the govt ships them to you as in “fast and furious” With states like Texas now using Drones that can kill and spy on you, I think we need to face reality that the police state has grown way to powerful over the people.

March to Wall Street is underway.

democracynow will have a segment with Seattle police chief during antiglobalism demos, who has now broken ranks & written a book about the dark side of police enforcement.

Regarding link #4, check out this article and think about how long a coverup has been going on — at ALL levels.

1) Stop blaming the guns for the crazies. I am unaware of any gun that has broken US law without human assistance. I own two guns. Other than not spending as much time on the shooting range as I ought to, those guns shouldn’t be a concern to anyone not planning on robbing me. As is true for 95%+ of gun owners, I should think.

2)I’m in favor of tax cuts, too. Just at the bottom ofthe scale, rather than at the top. Why not exempt the first $20K from taxes entirely and make it up with a tax increase on the highest bracket?

3) In other news, water is wet, nitric acid will hurt if you drink it, and Obama is spineless.

4) I disagree. Why punish students that aren’t even out of high school yet for the acts of PSU officals? The football program committed no rapes. Lock the guilty up.

5) I’ll bet she didn’t even see that as a threat until it was pointed out to her. It’s texas, ya’ll kin still kill somebody jus ’cause he needs kilt.

Boxturtle (I could make good money selling single shoes to GOPers who foot shoot themselves)

New
York
Pro
Business
Authoritarians

Check this out in particular:

Some investigators said they were convinced that the idea that Sandusky had an inappropriate interest in, and relationships with, young boys was a fairly widely held suspicion around and even outside Penn State’s football program over the years. “This was not the secret that they are trying to make out now,” one person involved in the inquiry said. “I know there were a number of college coaches that had heard the rumors. If all these people knew about it, how could Sandusky’s superiors not know?”

Just betting neither of your two guns is an assault rifle.

on edit: pls excuse my lack of manners. Good morning, pupses and thank you, BT.

Head of SEIU is scummy beyond words. Video clip on dn headlines wherein she sez they must support 99ers by reelecting O.

Oh dear, no musical instruments allowed in ZP.

Originalists don’t see any mention of freedom of music in constitution.

The football program committed no rapes. Lock the guilty up.

The football program — its leadership, in particular — covered up the crime. They need to locked up too.

Yeah. There’s a LOT of people who need to go to jail. But the entire program? It LOOKS to me like PSU is acting and cleaning things up. If they don’t clean up properly, then we can use the death penalty to force them to unprotect whatever scared cow they’re protecting.

But it looks to me as though they’re handling it properly now.

Interesting that no lawsuits have been filed yet. I’d bet discussions about a settlement are ongoing and that the university is willing to settle high. A 7-8 figure settlement to each victim to keep it out of court would be worthwhile to PSU, I think they’re concerned about surviving.

Boxturtle (Above opinion may change if new info comes out)

Music like THAT leads to sex — and the Constitution offers no protection for sex in a park.

Ped State belongs in the State Pen.

PSU is acting and cleaning things up.

YMMV

A .380 semiauto, that’s my primary weapon. And a Uzi 9mm (USA legal, NOT fully auto) with a clip that would have been illegal under the assualt ban if not grandfathered.

I actually won the Uzi for 2nd place in a shooting contest. First place was a Weatherby .400 rifle. I lost in a shootout to an FBI agent who bulled 20/20 to my 19/20.

Boxturtle (if an FBI agent says stop or I’ll shoot, STOP!)

The U.S. has breed an environment of violence and death. If you don’t like a leader take him out. It’s a shame what our society has become.

Press is being barred from covering today’s march: democracynow, via a tweet from a Guardian reporter.

Freedom of press, R.I.P.

They can have my Kazoo when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

Boxturtle (Yeah, a bit obvious. But I couldn’t resist)

I can’t even play the kazoo.

Mornin’, BT, pups

Obama pledges U.S. military power in Pacific

Welcome to the Neo-Cold War. Next thing you know we’ll see a term in the corporate media that comes straight out of the Fu Manchu novels of Sax Rohmer – yellow peril.

Osterity has now elevated himself from a neoliberal to a neoconservative. Can lunch with William “The Bloody” Kristol be far behind?

Can lunch with William “The Bloody” Kristal be far behind?

Lunch? Hell, I see a cabinet position.

Dorley Rainey, the 84 year old who was pepper sprayed in Seattle, is up on democracynow.

Good morning BT and firepups.
BoxTurtle your #4 about punishing the school or future students is right on the mark.
I have not commented at all about the scandal up to now and the Internet sites have been full as we all know.
Penn State is going to suffer for a long, long time from this scandal imho.
Football recruits will look elsewhere next year and in the years to come, another indicator will be how many transfers from the present team will occur in the coming year?
Penn State will survive, the school will move on from this, but again, imho it will be a long process and the sad thing is it never had to happen this way if those in charge would have had the courage to do what was right when they found out about it.
I would also like to add that I really do enjoy football and basketball, but having been a h.s. teacher/coach for over 40 years, the focus should be academics first and sports second at any level.

Good one.

The author of the CNN article does make some good points, however. Not that I agree with all of them, but they are fair arguments. Giving the “death penalty” to the football program punishes students who did no wrong, and does nothing whatsoever to heal those young boys who were abused.

They’ll have to have lunch to find out which cabinet post Kristol wants.

Another good one. You guys are on a roll today.

Naomi Wolfe said when they come for journalists fascism has come to America.

She was on countdown last night. She is an amazing women.

It was only a matter of time.

Giving the “death penalty” to the football program punishes students who did no wrong, and does nothing whatsoever to heal those young boys who were abused.

To me, suspending the program for one year is a minimum. But YMMV. Students can be “punished” in two ways: depriving them of football for a period, and tarnishing their degree by not acting in an appropriate way.

IMO, the students (and faculty) themselves should be demanding suspension. But, again, YMMV.

Doesn’t change my feelings about them, but glad those are in your hands rather than in those of someone with a different purpose in mind.

This is the first time I’ve heard her and she sure comes across that way.

She has been an activist for a long time and was very articulate and was full of knowledge about the problems of our country.

I hope, and believe, that the idiocy of football obsession will ultimately go the way of the gladiator brutality & abuse that thankfully in that form did cease. The more we learn about the resulting brain damage and other exploitation surely one day all that waste will be abandonned. I’d throw out the stupidity of race car driving, with wrecks and death, at the same time, or earlier. Why is teasing death such great sport?

The kids is fired up on wall street already.

Thanks for boosting it mike, the coward who is now in Mexico per chance.

I don’t think you could pay me enough money to sit on a hard surface in blazing sun, being assaulted with that sound and smell for hours at a time.

If I wanted to see things going around and around indefinitely I’d get a hamster and a wheel. At least it would be cute :)

I would also like to add that I really do enjoy football and basketball, but having been a h.s. teacher/coach for over 40 years, the focus should be academics first and sports second at any level.

You poor unfortunate. You have hit on one of my hemroids and now I must gripe.

When I was in high school mumbly-something years ago, the history testbooks still refered to Palistine. They were older than I was and there weren’t enough for each student to have a copy. The science textbooks DID list pluto as a planet, but knew nothing that happened after 1965.

The football team, during this time, had new uniforms TWICE. There were more parents working the concession stand than showed up at a PTA meeting. More floor space was devoted to sports than to the ENTIRE science wing.

Boxturtle (And EVERY bully that I was aware of was an athlete, thus immune to punishment)

Yo, Secret Service–meet Lauren Pierce. I’m just throwing that out there.

Boxing too. And I’m sure other sports could be added.

I’ve become averse to most so-called spectator athletic activities bc they’ve become so extreme that they ruin the participants’ bodies (even without drug enhanced performance). I did gymnastics in my youth, but around about the time of Nadia Comaneci I stopped being able to watch the horrific body distortions and the possibility that arms would be ripped from sockets on the hi-low parallel bar.

The clip ghost put up at #4 has a live feed of the march with a comment thread on the side. The cops can try to keep MSM away, but in the Internet age, they can’t hide what’s happening. A lot of people are watching.

IMO, we will never have a better example than child rape — covered up by dozens of higher level administrators — of how big time college athletics has distorted higher education.

I don’t think you could pay me enough money to sit on a hard surface in blazing sun, being assaulted with that sound and smell for hours at a time.

My dad took to me to a NASCAR race when I was little and everyone was hoping their would be an accident. I guess when you watch cars going in a circle for a few hours you need something to break up the monotony.

I have never had a gun in my house and I never will. My kids never had toy guns either. I feel very strongly about that.

Bingo! x2. I am still waiting for the other shoe to drop (that young boys were pimped out to donors). I hope it doesn’t, but…

Stay classy, Texas Republicans.

Yup.

Morning BT & Pups of Fire.

Pros as well…I lived in Dallas during a period when local news was about another arrested Cowboy….Repulsive.

You know how to hum, don’t you? Just put your lips together and breathe (and hmmmmmmmm.) *g*

Do you think she might have been specifically targeted bc of her activism?

Good for you. Kids are too impressionable at that early age as you know. I was once a salesman for a sundry company and one of my accounts would allow guns in the toy section. At the time I thought it was a dumb idea but now as I look back it was smart.

Dick Gregory said it best “a gun or a bible, you don’t need both.”

I think so who pepper sprays an 84 year old woman, unless she is a terrorist. /s

In today’s Republican Party, it helps, though.

I wouldn’t risk harming your ears by subjecting you to my humming.

Heh, I used to race sports cars in Europe on the amateur circuit before it was banned. Quite exhilarating racing over mountain roads.

Echos what RevBev said about teasing death. If nothing else, it seems like a terrible waste of petroleum products.

Or maybe you don’t need either. *g*

Yes and a waste of money. *g*

Right on.

Arrests have started in the OWS march: dn.

We had a great Swim thread several months ago about cars and driving. That was fun. Several of us had fallen through the floors of our old VWs.

On MSNBC now.

I have to agree with “Yes, it should” regarding capital punishment for Penn State’s football program.

This school has been nurturing hooligans. Curtailing football there for 5 to 10 years would eliminate a wrong reason for enrolling in higher ed there.

Prediction — it won’t happen, though, and they’ll be back at it before long.

Arrests have started on Wall Street. Bummer for Bloomberg, he can’t do it under the cover of night now.

Disgusting.

There’s something about driving a high performance vehicle at high speed with your butt about a foot off the ground.

Yep, money from football will rule out all else.

Oh what a visual :)

Jonathan White: Man With Schizophrenia Dies After Being Tasered & Pepper-Sprayed By Police (VIDEO)

Why hasn’t the police use of these deadly weapons been banned yet?

Don’t they violate innocent people’s 8th Amendment rights?

A) These weapons should be considered lethal.

B) These weapons are way over-used by police.

WTF?

Romans lost love for blood sport! The idiocy inspired every Sunday fueled by the drug alcohol, is sometimes pathetic, sometimes comical. We view slavery today as being abhorrent. We view the Roman blood sport in the same light. Maybe someday in the future we will view, American football as Roman blood sport, or leveraging of America to “corporate energy interests,” as a form of servitude/slavery? I wonder how many sports teams enjoy subsidies from the taxpayer, as does… say Exxon Mobile? BTW Oil’s Up! Just in time for Turkey Day? Gobble! Gobble! America likes building foundations on quicksand, enriching that 1%!

This school has been nurturing hooligans.

Most semi-selective and non-selective public and private colleges have been increasingly nurturing hooligans — while pricing out low income students who are qualified. PSU is an expensive institution. To graduate in four years, the loans that a low-income student would need to take out — after netting out all grant aid — exceeds $50,000

NYPD barricades are “assisting” marchers in blocking intersections: dn

As I was in the area a week ago yesterday, I’d have to concur. There were so many “official” barricades blocking all but single file pedestrian traffic into the streets with the office blocks, that it wouldn’t take many marchers to completely seal off the area.

Law of the unintended outcome.

BTW, most of the blockades are metal fences that can be dismantled or overturned. But there are also a lot of hardened blocking devices, such as those grotesque “planters.”

Still got dn going on another window. For another 4 minutes.

Not a whole lot different than riding fast, over fences, I guess. As far as that rush, I mean.

What a memory.

Big business with pepper spray, tasers and military and prisons. That’s what a police state does.

The memories are great. I’m happy to have walked away with my neck intact. A few years ago I was taking riding lessons and thinking about jumping again. It took one nasty fall to convince me that it wasn’t worth getting hurt over. Not at my age.

You are on a roll today and I have to agree with everything you said.
I never thought about your insight of more parents working the concession stand than coming to PTA functions but that is so true.
I only coached at two schools but when I transferred to the second school, the Superintendant introduced me to the faculty as “our new Varsity basketball coach…” My immediate thought was hey, I was hired to teach and coach, but really shouldn’t I be introduced as “our new Social Studies teacher” since I am teaching six classes every day.
Your comment about the athletes catching more breaks than ordinary students goes on at almost all schools too. I almost got fired for suspending a board member’s son for five games for a team infraction.

I don’t like guns, either. But the 2nd Amd’t is what it is, and SCOTUS has backed it up more than not in recent years.

The core of the problem isn’t the 2nd Amd’t, itself, but a cultural fascination with guns and holding potential mayhem in your hand. I suppose in most cases that urge is learned at an early age.

There was a time when I was a real adrenaline junkie. VN broke me of that habit, too. Only rush I get now is from roller coasters.

Major perspective change…

I still like roller coasters, but I used to love the twirly rides, too. For some reason now I can’t ride them without getting major vertigo :(

Off to swim in the great capitalist cesspool.

US KIA Afghanistan: 1,836

US KIA Irak: 4,484

Afghan, Iraki and Pakistani casualties: estimates vary to over 1.5M

US MBS 2011: 39,680 and counting

The Green Manalishi

No war but class war

Be good to yourselves, and all other living things

Namaste

Never. Give. Up.

I have strong gun control ideas, but, like BoxTurtle, I like target shooting.

I have vertigo, can’t go near twirly things.

Ah, the smell of cordite in the air.

My dad almost ended up in prison in Sweden for not declaring two hunting rifles when we moved. He rolled them up in an oriental rug that was then put in a canoe or kayak, I don’t remember. Anyway, customs came to the house and got him! He always thought that rules did not apply to him.

When I was in my 20′s, I enjoyed dirt bike riding in the desert. Last time I went out, was right before I got pregnant. I was willing to risk being hurt, but had to stop at but, who’s going to take care of the kids?

I almost got fired for suspending a board member’s son for five games for a team infraction.

You WOULD have been fired if you had taken the same action because of bullying. I once had a teacher tell me that a football player who had just bullied me would NOT be given detention because that would make him inelegible for fridays game.

Boxturtle (Later that day I got mildly beat up by the fellow for ratting)

I can’t begin to imagine your take on that.

Exactly!

Oy, I look back on my riding/jumping days in horror.

I have a photograph of me about 2′ off the saddle in a show, where I took the Christopher Reeve ‘dismount’, a 270 over the horse’s head (a big mare named Scarlet), landed on my back, got up, brushed myself off & walked away.

I also did a couple of jumping trail rides & one fox hunt in Columbia county for which I was a completely unqualified rider. Didn’t come off in those cases, but it’s a miracle I didn’t.

John taught me to shoot a shotgun when we had our farm, years ago. My husband traveled a lot at that time so John decided I needed to have a shotgun since we were out in a rural area.

The fun part was, he coached me in shouting profanity, which he said was the most important part.

Mom, he said, the worst sound in the world for an intruder is to hear a woman shouting Get off my property you #%%&&*^*&^*(&^ and then hearing her pump a shotgun :)

Luke Russert’s up on msnbc. Media has really gotten incestuous. Disgusting. 1%ers all of them, as Glenzilla points out so articulately.

Yes, and I remember the ruckus between the Sierra Club and the dirt bikers. It was thought that the bikers were ruining the desert and killing snakes and stuff.
Well, among many other non-profits, we donated to Sierra Club, but, I disagreed with them. The desert is HUGE!, and the critters hear the bike coming from a ways away and skeedadle.

Sounds like you were an accomplished rider! I’ve never hunted, that must have been quite an experience.

My last fall was off an off-track thoroughbred who belonged to my instructor. I wasn’t even jumping, but he shied and bolted and I found myself diving into the arena floor about 5 feet from the tractor that had working on the surface a few minutes before. Another stride and I would have taken a header into it.

You might be right and many of them join the state enforcement brigade.

Just a little pioneer woman….that’s great.

Hey! I’ve done the same thing on a dirt bike, but thrown forward over the handle bars.

Did they finally come to some agreement about special use areas?

Maybe “more than not”, but the Court has not been consistent. Makes not very strong precedent.

He was so funny. That was the only gun we ever owned, and it was inherited from some grandfather. It only ever was fired at a target, I’m happy to say. We weren’t hunters, either.

Have a great day everyone. I have to run something to school for my daughter. I will be at the march in St. Louis today at 3 pm. I hope to meet up with a couple other FDL members. I hope to have video and info as soon as I can. See you soon.

When rank and file union members come to the realization that their “leaders” are 1%ers the union movement will be reborn.

Something about those pesky laws of physics that seem to apply to lots of different activities :)

Thank you for all you are doing, Popeye. Take care!

Well, now, I don’t remember. There are areas that the bikers go, but I don’t know if if was specifically designated. We used to go out to a dry lake bed – El Mirage.
Just looked it up and it says:

El Mirage is an area administered by the Bureau of Land Management with cooperation from the state of California Parks and Recreation and a number of southern California counties. The focus at El Mirage is recreational and off-highway vehicle use as well as varied activities on the El Mirage Dry Lake. The area is divided into four general sections; the dry lake bed, the basin, the Shadow Mountains, and the Twin Hills.

So I guess, there was some mutual agreements. That’s nice.

I’ll be thinking of you. Be safe and we’ll see you later.
Film at Popeye.

I just heard a snippet of this on DN!:

Joe Hill

Awesome!

Joan Baez sang that last week at an event, I think it was Veteran’s Day, the day you mentioned that she was scheduled to sing.
I got tears!

After today’s “swim”, I’m gonna be referring to the group of FireDogs gathered here as the Wild Bunch.

Foul-mouthed fem-bloggers with shotguns …

Second Ammendement yahoos, listen up!

I’ve got some serious advice for y’all: Don’t mess with the folks from the Lake … ever.

Good morning … all you rough-riding, sharp-shooting, fast-driving, no sass-taking … Occupiers.

;~DW

Not accomplished in riding. Just athletic & determined and nuts.

Two anecdotes.

There is nothing more terrifying than galloping downhill with a jump at the bottom. Your weight & seat on the horse are in all the wrong places. Can’t remember if it was the first time I survived that experience, staying in the saddle, that was the beginning of the end of my desire to go on trail rides. But it sure changed my mind about the wisdom of participating in such an activity.

In fox hunting, as well as trail riding, the property owners maintain the trails & the jumps (triangular wood ‘tents’ over the impediment, like a hedge or a stream). Sometimes thru the woods. The rules are that incompetent riders like me are at the back of the pack, and if the leaders have to double back with the dogs, those at the end are supposed to back their horses into the trees, leaving the trail open for the leaders to gallop thru in pursuit. It took only one of those to convince me to stop that activity.

On edit: I have to admit, that the spectacle of a fox hunt was a sight to behold.

I don’t mind the laws of physics, it’s the harsh minimum penalties for the violations I have a problem with.

Boxturtle (H/T to bucky)

You are such a good and clever writer. I stand in awe :)

Can’t come soon enough, but I fear it won’t come soon enough.

And don’t forget, we make killer soup and cornbread, too!

((BoxTurtle)) you always make me smile.

I never thought about the mechanics of the hunt – not just the jumps but the etiquette involved (important not for nicey-nice, but safety).

Also, I couldn’t participate in a for kill hunt. Dragging scent is the way to go.

You are right about that downhill riding. Always scared me, truly.

It ain’t the fall that gets ya, it’s that sudden stop at the end.

Stop!
Ah, shucks. (Big grin!)

I don’t need either, TYVM.

Picture a trail 4 feet wide, 300 foot drop to the Columbia River on one side and a 50 foot sheer wall on the other.

*g*

Oh, I though of something that I thought was terribly clever last night, or perhaps it was the wine (it WAS cocktail hour) :)

It was about the ‘that which does not kill us’ thing. At our house it was ‘that which did not kill us obviously wasn’t strong enough’

Nooooo! Closing my eyes, right now.

On an Appaloosa?

Sadly, those kinds of memories that you experienced live with you the rest of your life. The school was wrong, the teacher was wrong, and the bully should have been given the damn detention.
I just read in the paper yesterday that an 8-year old girl hung herself in a closet in her home because she could not take any more of the bullying.
8 YRS OLD! Schools are only now addressing the bullying aspect because the lawsuits are starting to make administrators think about the jeopardy they are putting their schools in by doing nothing when it comes to bullying.

The Wild & Tasty Bunch, dammit.
At least we can start the day feeling good about ourselves. :)
(Thanks to DW Bartoo, and you and SD, and Popyeye and eCAHN et all! What a crew, indeed.)

I see I owe ya a beverage. I was on the phone with an electrician and just came back and hadn’t gotten all the way thru the comments before my #123. What’ya havin’ popyeye?

Oh, major *blert!!!*

That is our name, now. See, you are brilliant!!

Oh, I like your family’s version better.
When I was having a real hard time and people told me about that Making me stronger thing, I wasn’t in the mood to hear that. It didn’t feeling encouraging, it felt defeating.

Leads to an old abandoned gold mine in the Wallawas in eastern Oregon. Nice ride.

The breakfast afterwards was a treat, though. Tables groaning from the weight of the food is the cliche. I can’t remember, and I didn’t count at the time, but maybe somewhere around 30-50 riders, then others joining for breakfast.

Gotta be below a certain temp, otherwise the scent of the fox evaporates too quickly for the dogs to pick it up. Which is why they don’t start in Hudson valley until early December (don’t know what the season is in warmer VA), and why they assemble in early morning.

There’s so little fox hunting that it’s not a real threat to the fox population. It’s much more about the sport, the tradition, and the spectacle than about the capture. There were no foxes harmed on the one I went on.

2nd that, not to mention that the OT is a pretty violent book.

Just WOW. I don’t agree with every word he writes but this is one powerful article.

Just how did you know I needed a pick me up this am?
There’s a person I’m volunteerting with today who is just hard to get along with and I asked my son this am how he thought I just handle this guy. Sonny said Just deal with it, mom!
Thanks, Om, you make me stronger, with having the threat of being killed.
Sweetie Pie.

I know. Truly.

To you and SD at 132. My dad left me in a pitch black cave to go exploring an area that I was too scared to climb into. Left me. Alone. Probably 12 years old.

So are Grimm’s Fairy Tales, although I remember that I read them when I was about 4. My parents were apparently unconcerned with violent imagery or THEY hadn’t read Grimm’s. I don’t remember the violence.

Have a good day everyone, I have “honey do” projects that need to get done before the really bad weather sets in on me.

Except for the precipice.

I’ve never to Oregon, but I love Seattle and on up to Victoria and Vancouver.

That sounds frightening to me. So, were you stronger, or did it give you nightmares?

Take good care, Apple. Good stories today, teacher/coach. Thanking you for your service to the kiddies.

That is something beautiful to imagine. What a great photo shoot that would have been if you had a friend with a camera. But a great memory, in any case.

Glad the foxes were unharmed. Do they really bring out the ‘hunt boards’ and eat from the saddle?

Did you grow up in the Hudson River Valley? And I’d love to learn about and see photos of your house.

Some mornings we all seem to click, don’t we? I love mornings like this.

You are the perfect person to handle that touchy person. You can be firm and kind at the same time.

Bye, AC! Best of days to you!

Oh, am I procrastinating this morning, or what? I have to leave in a half an hour and I’m still in my bathrobe.
Glad I decide on wearing a baseball cap today.

I don’t remember nightmares. Maybe stronger. But mainly it taught me not to trust my father.

Something like, Would you kindly leave me the fuck alone? *g* – batting eyelashes.

Yikes, I’ve got to go, too.

What a fun morning.

Safe travels and safe home, you wild and tasty pupses!!!

from your ever so affectionate

ohmmmm

another image!! yes!

bye :)

Oh, see? Sorry, hon. And, that’s an age where we littles are making big decisions about how to view the world.
Well, you’ve managed to turn into a kind one and a beauty too.

Bye – and Laterz.
Someone help me out of this chair. A hand, please?

Good morning all. What a great Swim. Sorry I’m too busy to jump in this morning.

Here, let’s help demi up….off you go, girl (peck on cheek and swat on bottom)!

We missed you.

I’ll forevermore think of you as my Annie Oakley buddy. I used to shoot competitively. Nothing wrong with guns, it’s all about WHO is holding them.

No violent soup, please. ;-)

Be afraid, be very afraid :)

Sounds like you and BoxTurtle both are/were pretty accomplished on the range. You are right, it is who is holding them.

The most violent my soup is going to be today is…..curry masala. That could be dangerous, though, depending on how liberal I am with the curry.

It’s just an excuse to eat Major Grey mango chutney off the spoon….

Oh lord, I do have to go. ((rc))!

I suggest you go out to Ocotillo Wells! This was a beautiful brush covered area in the 70s. Take a look at it now and see what it looks like-all sand. This the direct result of Dirt Riders and ATVs failing to run on the existing senderos. All sand! Sierra Club and the others were exactly correct…

Diet Green Tea w/ginseng.

I AM very afraid, but I’ll endeavor to quell my fears so as to “curry” favor with you, dear fleshie. ;-)

Morning, OaS! Like you, I’m having more trouble getting out of bed. This old age thing…

Grew up in Buffalo.

No hunts that I know of on the west side of the Hudson, where my house is.

The east side of the Hudson, with all the mansions, an open country has long history. Livingstons (most of whom were named Robert, including one named Robert Robert, but not the one who bcame Supreme Court justice) owned all of Columbia county with tenants ever bit like feudal lords. Ditto Beekmans in Dutchess county. And of course they intermarried.

Incestuous 0.001%ers.

The RR came to the east side of the Hudson early & that brought up the wealthy from NYC. Thus the mansions (FDR “next door” to Vanderbilts, for example).

Here’s front of my house. Here’s back.

Great diary on Occupy. Congrats on being front paged. *g*

I wouldn’t ride that trail on anything other than a mountain raised Appy.

A mule, my friend. I rode up & down a path such as the one you mention-it may have been even narrower. I( would have been afraid to walk up on this treacherous path. Going up, I had a firm grip on thr saddle horn, my rationale being, “If I go, you’re coming with me.” Going down I was much more relaxed.

A big riding mule is the ticket, IMHO. A mule is super sure footed. If a mule becomes entangled in a barbed wire fence, it will simply stand there. A mule, unlike a horse, will never get into the feed and literally eat itself to death. The mule will never step into a hole, either.

Incestuous buggers, indeed. Gotta keep the money, influence (and serfs) in the family.

Your house is stunning. I would give a lot to see the inside, as well. Were you fortunate enough not to have to strip lots of paint from the woodwork? You have probably researched it and know its history, it is always amazing to me the detailed records that were kept about even the most seemingly insignificant events and objects.

What is in the little stone wing? Sorry to pump you for details. Old houses always quicken my pulse :)

Nonplussed, I have never ridden a mule, but people who have seem always to have nothing but praise for them.

Loved your saddle horn rationale.

I thought about you last week. I got lost trying to find Tractor Supply, and drove down some of the most beautiful country roads. I just kept going, knowing I was lost but figuring that I could find my back eventually.

The trees were well into turning and dropping their leaves, and the road bordered pasture and woods and cut back and forth across the Harpeth and a couple of smaller rivers.

I came across a field with about 6 Appaloosas grazing. They were absolutely gorgeous. They ranged from almost dappled or snowflake to one that was almost black with a white blanket and beautiful pattern of black spots. Someone was seriously interested in fine horses.

Shower The People You Love With Love

Can’t seem to get enough James Taylor this week….

I’ve been around Arabians, Tenn Walkers, etc, but I’ll take a mountain bred Appy over any of them. Gorgeous, easy to be around, sure footed. They will try to unseat you around trees with low limbs, though.

They will try to unseat you around trees with low limbs, though.

They just want to make sure you are paying attention *g*

Was just watching the DN! clip of that wonderful 84 yr old who was pepper sprayed in the face in Seattle.

Those people were compliant and they essentially were penned. There was absolutely no defense for that.

Yeah, I almost lost my lunch over that would-be triumphal email yesterday.
*spit*

Brick, the more expensive & showy material on the sides of the house visible from the road. Stone on the other sides.

Don’t know why the kitchen wing, built at the same time as the rest of the house, is stone & more primitive. I could speculate, but that does no good since we don’t know.

As for the inside, almost every bit of old paint was stripped, luckily done before regs about lead paint were too debilitating. Not that I think they’re wrong, but rather that there is sooo much to do with historic houses, and it is sooo expensive, that in retrospect I’m glad I was blissfully ignorant.

One of the early cliches I learned about historic houses in private ownership is that there is a middle ground for preservation: not too rich, not too poor. The latter results in destruction of the building as the roof & foundations deteriorate.

The former results in replacing all the historic patina with modern remuddling.

I don’t have pics of interior online, but I generally get kudoes for threading that needle.

You know what is kind of sad, but neat in a way? Interstates seem to cut behind the old historic homes, so you get to see the backs when you are traveling. The back is usually much more interesting, like in your case with the beautiful stonework.

In the south, a kitchen was often in a wing, to keep the heat from the fireplaces or stoves away from the rest of the house in summer. Sometimes there were separate ‘summer’ kitchens, removed from the house.

The woodwork must be wonderful. Don’t you love the patina of old wood? That soft, satin sheen it picks up after decades of boots on the floor or hands on the mantel and doorway surrounds?

Yes, there is definitely a middle ground in preservation/restoration, sometime if you have a chance, do take photos or have your photographer friend come in and do it?

It is a gem, but of course you know that! Thanks for sharing.

My fave corner is where the bricks quoin into the stone on the back. And, of course, since stone is more primitive than brick, it’s come to have a higher recognition over the years, LOL.

Let’s see what I can say about the house that summarizes a lot of it’s history in the short version.

It was built in 1817. I know that bc I did endrochronology (tree-ring dating) around the early 2000s. Columbia U prof, so hopefully quality work.

There is a corner stone with HDB*IDB initials and 1775 date. That is a mystery. HDB and his wife IDB are Hendrikus DuBois (grandson of one of the 12 Huguenot families of New Paltz) and his wife Janietta. (I was often used instead of J). The 1775 date is a mystery. Hendrikus died in 1777, there is a 1798 inventory of houses, none of which could be mine, for tax purposes. Best guess is that the cornerstone was moved from a wing of a HDB house built around 1737 as a wedding gift from Hendrikus’s son, Methusalem, married in 1774.

Now if you aren’t bored enough, here’s what is known.

Methusaluem was 61 in 1817. His son, Phillip was 31. Phillip married late bc he fought in the war of 1812. So in 1817, he was recently married (can’t remember his wife’s name) and had a one-year-old daughter. The property, according to records, did not pass to Phillip until 1820-something.

So who built the house?

I was ‘splaining this one evening to a house guest who is a plastic surgeon, with a side interest in architecture. I happened to mention that a puzzle of the house was why it is a side entrance rather than a center hall house. The former being common in row houses in cities but rare in the extreme in free standing houses in the country.

He (guest) responded that it was obviously built as a 2-family house. Side hall allows for more privacy upstairs.

Another bruise on forehead for slapping it in drilling in the obvious.

All the woodwork on the interior of houses like mine was painted, so no patina from that POV. The patina Qs involve how much restoricationism to do. Do you patch lower door corners that have been chewed away by mice or not. Not in my judgement. My contractor, an art graduate of Pratt Institute in the 1960s, has a wonderful judgement/ethic about patina. Many expensive stories to tell, but no one argues with the outcome, which is not quite museum quality, LOL.

I don’t think I would mind a little mouse history, either.

So even the upstairs woodwork was painted? In our 1905 house -gee that’s modern, compared to yours – downstairs had oak floors and painted woodwork where guests might be. Upstairs it was all unpainted woodwork, and there were less expensive pine floors. I’ve always liked heart pine the best.

When we built our farmhouse in TN, we shipped about 3000 sq feet of 100+ year old heart pine flooring from an old warehouse in Ottawa, ON. It was 5 1/4 inches wide and 1 3/4 inches thick, tongue and groove. It had been subfloor, with oak on top. We spent days with a drum sander, then had someone come in and do the finishing. They were a bit soft, but that soft luster was something to see. I even had a storage crack in the kitchen, where I could sweep crumbs until I decided to vacuum, lol.

Oh, if your house was built as a two family home initially, both levels would have entertained guests. Maybe that was why the woodwork was painted upstairs also?

I’m still puzzling over the dates, and I wouldn’t have thought about the 2-family side staircase, either.

Best guess is that the cornerstone was moved from a wing of a HDB house built around 1737 as a wedding gift from Hendrikus’s son, Methusalem, married in 1774.

Methusalem would have been born in 1756 if he was 81 in 1817. Makes sense that he would have married in 1774. So the house built in 1737 is what is confusing me.

OK, looks like I’m the last wo/man standing. I’m planting a flag here that says, not EPUland, but OmAliland.

Good night, and good luck :)

Hypothesis is parents lived upstairs & Phillip & family lived downstairs. The upstairs parlor is the fancier of the 2: plaster molding around the ceiling, wood panels below the windows, carved mantel, whereas the downstairs mantel is plain.

The house was in the DuBois family until early 20th C, then it passed to Callahan, when it was used as a boarding house for engineers who worked on aqueducts to NYC. The one from the Ashokan Reservoir is about 600′ up the road. (The one from the another reservoir is about 2-3 miles south of the house.)

The house passed to the Jansens in 1913 or 1923, depending on whether you believe Mrs. Jansen, or the documents. It’s possible Mrs. Jansen is correct but that the docs were filed right away.

Jansens farmed and around 1950 also had summer guests as boarders. I’ve met one, who is now in his 70s. DeWitt Jansen is now mid-70s & still lives in town. His mother, from whom we bought the house, was a widow for 16 years before she sold the house. She died about 20 years ago.

My late husband bought it in 1981.

So it’s had 4 owners in nearly 200 years.

Pretty damn remarkable that you have such a detailed history and that it has had so few owners.

Although, in your part of the country is isn’t quite so uncommmon. Here, much was damaged or destroyed after the war, and it wasn’t an area of much wealth even before, so many houses weren’t very grand and weren’t preserved.

During ‘urban renewal’ in the 70s here, most of the remaining 19th century homes were torn down for the interstate. A few pockets remain, Missionary Ridge pretty much maintained the integrity of its structures because of the wealth concentrated there. Fort Wood, which lies next to the university, is where we lived, and it suffered pretty badly from the 50s through 80s, and then people started reclaiming the homes from the drug dealers and pimps.

With a lot of hard work, most of the homes were restored to much of their former beauty and dignity, but we were in a constant struggle with the fraternities, who owned many of the grander houses but couldn’t have cared less about their maintenance or about being considerate neighbors.

My favorite home was a former summer cottage on one of the mountains. It was a bungalow built in 1924. I’ll post a couple of photos in a few minutes, gotta get them into Flickr.

Old Town, Signal Mountain, TN

That isn’t really true, I loved the Tulsa house as much. Built in 1928, with a Craftsman living and dining room. Woodwork never painted.

Midtown, Tulsa