Morning, BT.

MM is of course right. Which is why he will be ignored
or treated as a political freak by the Village and MSM.

It’s not too early to start a pool on which Repubs will be offered positions
in O’s second term cabinet.

Probably the same group of Repub’s there now.

Boxturtle (*rim shot*)

i no longer pay attention to anyone who thinks there is a meaningful difference between the democrats and the republicans

such people are part of the partisan game that keeps the 99% down

michael moore is trolling for obama votes and i hope the occupiers tell him to go away

MM is of course right. Which is why he will be ignored
or treated as a political freak by the Village and MSM.

Plus, he’s fat.

plus, he’s fat

Who cares what MM sez. He’s part of the 1%ers.

LOL

Another shocking headline: Japanese nuke released twice as much radioactivity than earlier reported: democracynow.

I’m sorry it was not that long ago that MM was defending O and the dems. Glad to see he is waking up do you think it was Warren who provided the intellectual foundation was the spark that helped him wake up? and of course all the people supporting OWS

I guess he prolly fat also. LOL

Maybe he’ll roll off Joe Biden and bring back Dick Cheney.

Good morning pupses and thank you BT.

I get an email post from Steven Pizzo every day or so. He used to have a blog called News for Real, but he just sends out the posts now via email and I don’t have a link. I think you can email him at stephen@pizzo.com
to subscribe.

Today the article was about the Bonus Army and Hoovervilles and how the government burned down the camp in Washington. I am ashamed to say that I had never read about this:

1932 — The infantry and cavalry deployed through the camp, rousting out the inhabitants then setting fire to the shacks. Eugene King, seven years old, taxed a soldier’s patience when he stopped to rescue his pet rabbit; the trooper plunged his bayonet through the child’s leg. It was not an isolated incident-there would be more than one hundred casualties that night, including an infant whose body was found among the smoldering ruins the next morning….By midnight…the camp was a raging inferno that six city fire companies could not contain

He links to a Brittanica Blog article that includes footage of the actual attack on Bonus City.

Here’s something you won’t read about on FDL: Female employees have filed new gender discrimination complaint against Walmart after SCOTUS thru out the old lawsuit.

Just listened to the video. yep MM seems to be less than half awake. “if the repub party is the party of the wealthy” Guess he is still drinking Kool Aid or he has not noticed the millions O and dems have got from banks and corporations.

If one thinks Warren will be any less disappointing than O, they’re in for a big surprise. IMO.

Them Japanese need some Glasnost.

Lincoln took troops that had just fought at Gettysburg to break a strike.

Workers attempting to get a just compensation for their efforts will not be tolerated.

Sad but true, this kind of police and govt brutality is nothing new under the sun. Of course only a limited amount is taught in school and even when it is it is taught in such a way that students are unable to connect the dots.

Makes me look at Occupy in a bit of a different light.

Mornin’, BT, pups

Nice to see Michael fall off the Obama wagon. How long afore he realizes that the 2 parties are the 2 sides of the same coin?

It might be useful to have a teach-in on this subject.

Yep and saw did Grover. in fact Grover AG was on the payroll for the railway baron who wanted to crush the strike. Been going on a long time

My grandfather was a Bonus Marcher. My grandmother and father, aged 8, were with him in the encampment.

I meant ‘so” not ‘saw” time for coffee

Your evidence?

what did he say about it?

My sore ass.

Hoover pulled that stunt right before the ’32 election. Bye, bye, Herbie.

That’s a proud heritage. Do you remember talking with them about it? You didn’t fall far from the tree.

Yep. You ain’t seen nuttin’ yet in the extent to which the 1%ers will go to break up OWS. They’re still flailing around trying to figure out which of the many tactics to try, without those same tactics inflaming the movement more.

But soon they’ll realize that a full military assault might be the only A bc ‘discontent’ is so widespread. Posse comitatus has been dead letter law since the day it was passed.

Scott Olsen was just the shot across the bow.

Sounds reasonable. I don’t think Warren would get off like Obama does working the drone joystick though, so they have at least one difference.

I don’t remember a lot of the details. They came up from Columbia, SC. He mostly ranted about what Eisenhower and MacArthur, the officers in charge, did to the camp, the burning, etc. He hated Eisenhower till the day he died. He got a job picking up trash with a stick with a nail in the end, then as an electrician in the civil service. Retired from that job. Granma never wanted to talk about it. Grampa was a Navy vet from WWI. My dad remembers eating Corn Flakes with water.

Try this.

We’ve got to find a way to counter the neoliberal ideology before it kills all of us.

So is Chris Christie and so is Hillary Clinton.

I found it interesting to watch the faces in the cars that passed our demonstration last evening. The younger people, the bus drivers and the people in the older cars (young and old) were the ones to honk their horns and open the windows and wave and shout out to us.

The older drivers in the nicer cars, 99%ers, too, were more apt to turn their heads away to not meet our eyes, or scornfully mouth ugly stuff at us.

Of the people demonstrating (only about 50) only my friend Chuck and I and about 2 other couples were nearing Social Security age.

We still need to do a lot of work in Chattanooga, that is obvious.

What we are fighting today is the same shit your grandpa tried to fight then. hopefully we will make him proud this time and we will not stop until the 1% are driven from controlling all corridors of power

its all BS.
all show.

presidential elections are totally fixed and it doesn’t
matter who or how ,many vote.

in fact it is much worse then anyone can imagine.

obama will win but the democrats will lose the senate and every single piece of legislation passed in those 4 years will be right wing and kiss SS goodbye.
and say hello to 10 dollar a gallon gas as obama attacks Iran setting off WW3.

THAT is what WILL happen.

At best.

Reality check!

Mr O is the 1% choice that is why there are no viable contenders. The fix is already in folks. SCOTUS stole the election in 2000, we no get to vote in real elections.

Be patient it takes time. St. Louis is that way but it is growing. Kevin from FDL is coming to St. Louis Monday and we are going to get and deliver supplies. Keep up the fight.

Pretty even mix at Occupy St Petersburg. They’re combining the meeting tomorrow with the annual Circus McGurkis, a fair put on by the Quakers each year. Should be fun. Used to be much more hippie oriented. Hate the thought of wearing my war suit there but…

Down to one suit?

Thanks for all you are doing, popeye. I think it is great that you are going to be able to meet Kevin and help those other great patriots.

Yeah. Still have my dress blues but only have the original rip-stop cammy top. Girlfriend years ago was a roofer and ruined the trousers hot tarrin’ a roof.

It’s not much on my part but every little bit helps. If everyone would do a little we would have a lot if that makes sense. These people who have stayed there 24/7 need all the support they can get they are amazing.

That is great that the Quakers and working with Occupy. No surprise, but it is still so inspiring.

So right.

Michael Moore has zero credibility now.
His agent for “Sicko” is Ari Emanuel, brother of Rahm.

There was Rahm making back room deals to kill single payer, and Moore releases a movie about the travesty of the US health care system and Rahm’s brother is hired to do PR.
Incredible.

Gee, you have had an interesting life *g*

I glued myself to my computer mouse yesterday. That was a highlight.

What do you know about Ari Emanuel? Guilt by association is an ugly thing. I know.

It’s just a matter of bein’ in the right place at the right time. Been a number of the bein’ in the wrong place at the wrong time, too. *g*

Rachel had Frank Rich on her Wednesday show, and she showed footage of a PBS film on the Bonus Army and compared it side by side to Oakland PD’s actions with Occupy. I hadn’t heard of it either but there are three YouTubes of it. You can start with Part I and the others are on the same page. And Frank Rich’s article on Occupy Wall Street is definitely worth the time to read.

The Class War Has Begun

Thanks, msmolly. Will do.

Exactly. I wont take MM seriously until he speaks critically of the democrats.

Especially liked this:

Having been a bystander to history when the tea party harvested populist rage during the summer of 2009, he may have a tough time co-opting Occupy Wall Street now to plug the so-called enthusiasm gap in his base. There’s a serious danger that the anger could co-opt him instead.

That is my reaction every time Ari Emanuel is brought up to trash Michael Moore.

Off to swim in the great capitalist cesspool.

US KIA Afghanistan: 1,822

US KIA Irak: 4,4882

Afghan, Iraki and Pakistani casualties: estimates vary to over 1.5M

US MBS 2011: 37,200 and counting

Wicked Game

No war but class war

Be good to yourselves, and all other living things

Namaste

Never. Give. Up.

If you’re interested, you can watch the vid of her Frank Rich interview on her website, too.

For some, everybody has to pass their purity test or everything they say or do is irrelevant.

Thanks. I read the Frank Rich piece a few days ago on NYMag site.
I don’t watch TRMS — but I don’t want to start a fight about it either.

It was a great interview I have always liked Frank Rich.

He’s co-CEO of William Morris Endevour Entertainment.

When you consider the dozens of agents at William Morris, the irony of hiring Rahm’s brother is too much

So what the fuck does that mean?

I have gradually stopped watching her. Not just Rachel for any reason, but any evening television, so I’m always happy when someone brings up a particularly interesting segment.

Looks like The Real News has a video up about Occupy and speculation and food prices.

Well, except for some PBS nature stuff and Masterpiece Mystery *g* Not such a non-television purist as I make myself out to be.

I guess you don’t see the irony. OK.

No need to get hostile.

I’m not being hostile, I’m being dumbfounded. So it’s ironic. Big deal. You still haven’t explained how Ari being Rahm’s brother is such a bad thing re Moore.

They really are amazing. After several hours marching around and chanting I was looking forward to a soft bed. Those folks are lucky to have a thin sleeping pad on top of a pallet under their bags. That demands respect.

I managed to skip that in HS, and didn’t take history in college, but I haven’t done anything to rememdy it as an adult, sad to say. Let the education begin, thanks again for the links.

When the GOP’s money machine couldn’t get Jeb!, Mitch Daniels or Chris Christie — they had to settle for Willard. But yeah, hard to see why a second Obama term really scares them.

Michael Moore gets bashed when he is not critical of the President and when he is critical of the President. Moore is easy to criticize. He is an activist, who has at times, screwed up, as in 2000. But he tries and when you try you make mistakes. If you do not make mistakes, youy are not trying hard enough.

Again criticize Moore. I am sure TPV will jump all over this. But he was part of my beautiful 2008 sixty-nine million people mandate. it was a mandate to end wars and end Bankster Disaster Capitalism. It was not Moore who has shattered my mandate. It is Obama.

Obama has successfully neutered the Democratic Party. Just the same as the CIA overthrowing a Democracy. And Obama continues to put Neo-con Republican Fundamentalists into the Democratic Party.

More people support OWS than support Obama and congress combined. All we need is for a very small percentage of those supporters to come out (1%-2% would be fantastic, closer to 5% would be phenomenal). Or, increase support and an even smaller percentage would mean the same numbers.

The movement will be multi-generational, but it is going to be driven by the younger generation. They have everything and nothing more to lose.

I found it ironic.
So big deal.

You are right, I spoke with several college students and recent graduates who were already deep in student loan debt, with no decent job prospects in sight.

edit but I thought that more people my age would be worried sick about SS and Medicare, not just for ourselves, but for the financial implications for our kids. My son tells me that if I am destitute, it’s the ice floe for me, so that is of course an option. *g*

That’s it? Lotta critical thinking there.

Oh, well…

I know that Obama make the administration of Richard Nixon look like a bunch of pinkos, but with the modern Republicans, you would get even shorter-sighted corporatists than we have now, plus theocracy, bureaucratic bungling, and a really paranoid, inept foreign policy. There is a difference and pretending there isn’t one because you are frustrated is not helpful.

i have nothing personally against michael moore

but in his interview he says he’s not advocating anything crazy like not voting for obama

when someone says that i just tune them out

it’s like saying: i’m willing to try anything as long as it’s this same thing that doesn’t work

the two parties are part of the same problem and pretending that one is the solution is a fool’s game

Good morning, all.

Well SD, Michael is a wee bit slow in grasping certain things, although his heart might well be in the “right” place.

At the rate which it took MM to realize that Obama might just be the real choice of the 1%, then it is likely that about two-thirds of the way through the next presidential term, Michael will suddenly realize that there really is only one political party … with two apparent “ends” … one is purported to look like an elephant and the other is said to resemble a jack-ass … a real push-me-pull-you … as you say, the “coin” of the realm. (“Heads”, they win, “tails”, we lose.)

DW

To recognize all that is one thing….What are your alternatives?

SD, what’s up? I think he was saying it was all an inference from the Rahm relationships, and no big deal….An opinion….No critical thinking needed, imho….

i disagree entirely

obama is as bad as romney will be

in fact, obama is worse because he is doing thing that no republican ever could, at least not without vehement opposition from the democratic party

it is delusional thinking that obama2 would be better than obama1

and we don’t have time for delusions anymore

both parties are necessary for the plutocrats to maintain control and we must break the stranglehold by rejecting both parties

There’s also global warming and peak oil, which will steadily worsen everyone’s lives, and by definition the younger you are, the more years of devastation during your lifetime that await you.

Even Republicans aren’t suggesting cutting social security for current or even upcoming recipients in any direct way (even the mdeicaid cut both parties just agreed to is confusing) so self-interest isn’t going to get ss recipients out.

my alternative is to reject the two-party duopoly and take my chances on asymmetrical action

falling into line again and again for the democrats has brought us to this sorry point

the democratic party should be rejected bc it is as pernicious — arguably mores in its duplicity — as the gop

a vote for the political duopoly is a vote for the plutocracy

iow: the first part of solving a problem is to stop doing the thing that is causing the problem

Thank you….

Even Republicans aren’t suggesting cutting social security for current or even upcoming recipients in any direct way (even the mdeicaid cut both parties just agreed to is confusing) so self-interest isn’t going to get ss recipients out

Whoa, don’t know where you come up with that idea, that is just wrong.

Totally late Good Morning,
But, stopped to say it anyway. Michael Moore voiced some of what FDL commenters have been saying for a long time. And, more. That he isn’t one of those who maybe doesn’t agree with every iota shared here is not surprising. He’s helped to bring a lot of truth to us through his movies.
The whole Occupy movement being finally shared with the public is starting to bring up a can of worms that many Americans have been trying to ignore. We’d like to see the 1% help the homeless and poor but that’s not going to happen. We are all each others neighbors and we have to step up to the plate. That’s not going to happen without some verbal skirmishes however.
This is the New Beginning. We are all being challenged to Be More.

I just think criticizing Moore because his agent happens to be Rahm’s brother is unfair. Criticize him all you want because he’s not tough enough on Obama and the Dems, or for other legitimate reasons, but let’s not tar him with the identity of his agent, which may be a very long time relationship totally unrelated to Rahm. And irrelevant.

JMHO. We get way too purist around here (not you, RevBev, but just in general). We poke fun at the Republicans for their “litmus tests” and then we do pretty much the same thing. Nobody’s 100% perfect.

I just think it’s really difficult…(and I don’t think this gets validated enough) for people who have believed all their lives that America was something exceptional, that capitalism was “KING” of the world, that “our way” was the “right way”…to accept that their beloved spouse, the one they mooned over for many months, just slapped them across the face. There is a reason that domestic violence relationships don’t ever end with the first slap and it’s not economics. We are pack animals, we are predispositioned to hang together. The glue that keeps us together is “emotion”. Emotions are not facts.

It’s really hard to face that the one you loved, just beat you up. That’s what every American who believed in this system is thinking and struggling with. Some will go into complete denial and believe that capitalism is “right” (at it’s polar) and that we should do whatever it takes to sustain it. Some will keep giving him another chance and another chance. Some will stay trying desperately to collect the funds to go. Some will try to create a safe room in their life. And some will leave without a forwarding address.

And in the end, it’s not Obama that is the monster. It’s a vulnerable system. It’s not even capitalism. It’s unregulated capitalism. And we are at a loss trying to find a way to make the pack pay attention to the gray instead of the black and white. Our founding fathers somehow accomplished exactly this. And that is what made them exceptional and our country exceptional. It was our founding father’s ability to see both ends of the polar and look for synthesis. Not every issue was covered, but it was the process that was the “gem”, not the end result. This is what I hope for OWS that they will pay as much attention to process as our founding father’s did.

Critical thinking over Michael Moore and Ari Emanuel?
You’re kiddin.

I made a simple statement about the inter-connections/relationships of millionaires. That behind the scenes they’re working together despite the public personas. There was nothing else to it.

If you expected more red meat, sorry, it’s not there.

Enjoy the day.

What really, really upset the Establishment about Moore, was the 9-11 questions. that is the Subject That Dare Not Speak Its Name in Dee Cee. Just as Maxine Waters will never be forgiven for revealing CIA Crack Cocaine, Moore will never be forgiven asking the most basic questions that have not been explained.

I wonder if I can Post about 9-11 at “OpenMike”?

That’s not going to happen without some verbal skirmishes however.
This is the New Beginning. We are all being challened to Be More.

It isn’t a bad thing to have our beliefs and preconceptions challenged. But sometimes uncomfortable, nonetheless. Part of the growth process.

edit How was MEND, yesterday?

I do not know if it’s unfair…the inference just seems like a possibility….Didn’t understand the dustup. Thanks for the explanation.

Very well put, wavpeac. Nice analysis.

And now, today is my day to clean toilets (and the rest of the house where the toilets are), so I will toddle off.

Have a great day.

Just one article, Emphasis mine. (this is compared to Pail Ryan 2012 budget that doesn’t deal with ss at all.

Not content with the GOP plan to upend Medicare and Medicaid, a trio of GOP senators have unveiled a proposal to go after Social Security as well. On Wednesday morning, Senators Lindsey Graham (R-SC.), Rand Paul (R-Ky.), and Mike Lee (R-Utah) presented their plan to slash an eye-popping $6.2 trillion from the debt by reforming Social Security—all without raising taxes. How will they pull this off? By hiking the Social Security retirement age to 70 years by 2032 and reducing benefits for those who earn more than an average of $43,000 over their lifetime. The Republicans’ plan also makes sure to exclude anyone bound to retire (and vote) any time soon, by exempting those currently older than 56 years from feeling the pain.

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/04/next-gopers-dig-social-security

Off to swim (in a pool) see everyone l8trs. Have a great day and as SD says never give up.

Same here, I have sign-making debris all over the dining room. Much more fun to make a mess than clean it up.

very best of days to all firepups and everyone

safe travels and safe home

love from

ohmmmm

Michael Moore has zero credibility now.
His agent for “Sicko” is Ari Emanuel, brother of Rahm.

There was Rahm making back room deals to kill single payer, and Moore releases a movie about the travesty of the US health care system and Rahm’s brother is hired to do PR.

I made a simple statement about the inter-connections/relationships of millionaires. That behind the scenes they’re working together despite the public personas.

Doesn’t look like such a “simple statement” to me but it’s not worth getting into a pissin’ contest over.

Super Busy. Thanks for asking. We never know how many people we have to feed. For some reason, Thursdays are usually slower than Tuesdays, but we came close to running out of the food we had prepared.
(It was spicy hot wings, along with grilled veggies, green salad, pasta and garlic rolls, so some thought more came for the Wings.)
Worked my tail off, for sure.
And, then in the middle of serving, The Food Inspector came.
Back was sore by the time I left.

It is impossible to make a clean getaway from Swim! It is too tempting to look back. I’m going to turn into a pillar of something. Cornbread, I hope.

What a great menu, and a whale of a job preparing, serving, cleaning up. Acts of love. You are a good woman, demi.

The Food Inspector! LOL!

You must have been pooped. How do you get up so early? Must still be dark in SoCal.

Never give up. ;-) From now on, it will have an extra-special resonance when you say it.

Excellent comment, wavpeac, as always.

The issue for me is simply this, if the current system cannot be affected by reason, by humanity, or by understanding, then we must, inevitably, if we are responsible beings, seek to rebuilt a better system in its place … when the practiced insanity and inhumanity of this current system causes it to collapse, which will likewise cause the implosion of civil society, then I suggest that it behooves us, all of us, to have considered notions of what to begin to do next.

Right now, many people still “believe” that the current system can, somehow, be fixed, and they are entitled to that belief, however, even in that entitlement, there must be some room for considering that the current system cannot be fixed, nor should it be, if a better, more humane, and sustainable means of PARTICIPATORY democracy may be built in its place. My experience with Occupy Pittsburgh, so far, has convinced me that that the question of “process” is uppermost in the minds of many, in fact, the clear majority of those involved.

Right now, people have NO meaningful say in the conditions of their society, whether there will be war or peace, whether we will invest in human beings or allow fictitous “persons” to effectively take everything away from even the most meager pretense of “democracy” … in the name of “free enterprize” which is, now, fully equated with “democracy”, “freedom”, and “liberty” …

And frankly, Obama is behaving rather poorly, he is killing people, with drones and with economic stupidity, both of which I consider to be the behavior of a sociopath … someone who is a true, a “clear and present” danger to civil society, the Rule of Law, and to humman beings everywhere on the “everywhere battlefield” of “endless war”. Obama is not alone, and the rough assessment that approximately 1% do bear responsibility for what is occurring is founded upon clear and common evidence of collective experience. Obama and the rest of the one percent may be victims, but they are victims of themselves, their fears, ansd their ambitions … as are the rest of us victims, even as the 1% toy with us, with our children, and with everyone’s future.

A significant part of being fully human is to be responsible.

That is measured, not by what we say, but by what we do, don’t do, or allow, encourage … or “worship” through our behavior.

That truth applies to 100% of us, we humans … and those who take advantage, who cynically “game” life and possibility, who do not value the lives of others … are guilty of the worst forms of destruction, of life, of libety, of understanding, of tolerance, and of courage.

To pretend otherwise is dishonest, cowardly, and, too often, expedient … for it absolves the rest of us from doing … anything …

DW

First a rich California Democratic donor abandons Obama, then Michael Moore asking the obvious question, and then a poll about Hillary destroying the GOP field in 2012.

Maybe just maybe, there is something happening amongst the 99%.

It would be an excellent time for #OWS to turn up the heat. The 1% might realize their Manchurian Republican isn’t fooling the masses with Hope & Change anymore.

Wow, you have a short memory. Do you remember Iraq? The Patriot act? FEMA’s response to Katrina? The U.S. Attorney scandal? Yes, the Dems rolled over on all of these, but the push came from the other side. I have been fighting the rising tide of corporatist, rightist, christianist extremism for 40 years. Perhaps it’s because I never bought into Obama’s “yes we can” post-partisan B.S. in the first place, but I’m not so disappointed now. Sometimes it is hard. If I ever have to vote for Diane Feinstein again, I may injure myself. But I will, when she’s running against a Republican who will vote every time with Mitch McConnell, not just sometimes.

Fortunately, I’ve always been a “morning glory.”
And, I have to dress in layers because it’s cold when I leave the house and then it gets hot in the kitchen.
There’s this ever so subtle shift in tension/attitude when the inspector comes. I don’t always wear the gloves, ’cause it’s harder to grab things and cut things.
One funny note, I was sprinking the hot spices by hand on the chicken parts and my fingers still smell yummy.
Wanna smell? Ha.
It is hard to leave the Lake sometimes. Go straignten up your dining room – and you are a good person too for participating in the protests – and we’ll yak later.

A new twist on animal husbandry?

One funny note, I was sprinking the hot spices by hand on the chicken parts and my fingers still smell yummy.
Wanna smell? Ha.

Lord, what a pair we make. Yes, sure, lol!

I have an interesting hot spice blend that I haven’t tried yet. Berber spice blend: cumin, cardamom, allspice, fuengreek, coriander,cloves, black pepper, chili pepper flakes, cayenne pepper, ginger root, turmeric, salt, paprika and cinnamon.

((Hey rc))

Nothing so exciting or scientific. Repaired a nail and must have had a bit of glue on my index finger. I was well and truly stuck to the mouse for a few minutes, trying to get out the door to meet my friend at the protest :)

Turning off the monitor this time! xoxoxo ohmmmm

Obamcare cuts billions from Medicare. Already in effect is greater means testing for Part B with in my case a premium increase of some $1200 per year. There are also changes in so called provider payments and more to come. The decision to ax the Medicaid Nursing home program increases in funding was in order to avoid the 30% cut in physician payments the act calls for. And these are just the first years changes.

Sorry I don’t have more exact data and links at hand. That would be a good reporting project for a diary.

You can’t even do that hear without someone going off on you for even suggesting 9/11 was not what the government said it was. I find that very strange at a progressive site, sure there’s alot of wacko sites but there are good ones too.

Congratulations on discovering the mythical “better mousetrap” lol. You are a capitalist, after all. ;-)

Obama has doubled, tripled and quadrupled down on all of the above Bush policies. (well, we’ll see what happens when the next Katrina hits — but given the budget cuts I doubt it will be pretty) The troops he’s bringing back from Iraq is only because the Iraqis actually stood up to the US and won’t allow immunity for war crimes. We’re at war in 7 countries.

He has secret memos detailing secret criteria for secretly deciding to assassinate US citizens. We’re supposed to be happy because at least some leakers have said the criteria exist!

George W wasn’t able to cut SS, Obama will.

Obama and his health plan have done more to cut women’s access to affordable abortion than any president in 40 years. Forget the Mississippi crazies — this is the thoughtful really smart Democrat.

We like to pretend it was W who caused the financial meltdown, but who was president when Glass-Seagall was repealed? The wars and tax cuts just made it worse. Obama has only increased wars and irrevocably intertwined social security with the general budget.

If there’s a Sarah Palin as VP, I may relent, and depending where I’m living in 11/2012 (“swing” state or not) vote for Obama, although the thought makes me ill. But to pretend there’s major difference between Romney and Obama is crazy.

Thank you wavpeac and DW for your usual excellent and thoughtful commentary this morning.

I am so far beyond tired of this endless eat-your-tail style debate that goes on about voting for the lesser evil each and every time, despite the atrocious long-term record of results for that strategy. Blind team tribalism is the only possible explanation for the rabid devotion to that strategy by such as the TBogglers, and even the the relatively-more-thoughtful-but-less-radical progressives who just can’t generate the escape velocity to make the move outside their regular thought box.

As with diamond-cutting, I believe that the path to true insight relies on finding the best fault line in the complex of issues involved in a debate. Here, that fault line appears to me to be that between short-terrm strategy and long-term strategy. Lessser evilism is clearly a good short-term strategy. But, just as in military areas it is understood that one can lose a battle and win the war (or vice versa), it is the long-term outcome that really matters in the big picture. Refusing any further support to Obama or the sellout Dems may indeed usher in another Rethug regime, and that sucks, short-term, but if that is what it takes to make the People uncomfortable enough to join with their brethren and force REAL changes to the failed system, then that can produce a long-term result that would truly be historic in terms of the long-term benefits that it would produce for our society and the larger world society.

Long-term vs. short-term. How do you want to invest for the future?

The Army commander who led that assault on veterans was none other than Douglas MacArthur, a man who cried real tears when recalling his days at West Point. Guess his sniffles were reserved only for his reminiscences. No need to waste them on real, live human beings who had also worn the uniform…

Moore was a little more blunt/forthcoming on the Beeb four days ago.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/26/michael-moore-obama-first-term-heartbreaking/
“Well, it was either that or he actually thinks that way”
As much as I like Michael Moore, he totally white washed the culpability of 0′s treasury and DOJ in their complicity of coverup and sustenance of fraud in his last film ‘Capitol ism’.
At the time of his making that film ari emmanuel was the inspiration for the douche agent on ‘Entourage’, and the hottest agent in town, Moore wanted to make sure the film got placed and has been scratching the fleas ever since.

It was still early in the administration but I had already gotten to the point that 0 was a wall street toady and left the theater very disappointed, surprised by some glaring omissions of history that were in the public record of the time.
The film had to be booked in theaters.
Moore is totally self financed.
Carping over jackal agents means little in that world. ‘Sicko’ preceded. ‘Capitolism’ by two years. If emmanuel was on board for that I would understand the criticism
I found Moore’s very willful blindness about the administration’s continuing role in sheltering the 1% in that film a major flaw, in his last film, that I’m guessing he now regrets.
I believe Moore is disgusted, but between 0 and a republican he will vote 0, he thinks between two the vote against the greater evil is better than abstaining.

I know Ari Emanuel raised a ton of money for Rahm Emanuel’s mayoral campaign and now Chicago has Scott Walker South as our Mayor, pushing for tax breaks for the Chicago Mercantile Exchange and to bust the unions.

Wow, you have a short memory. Do you remember Iraq? The Patriot act? FEMA’s response to Katrina? The U.S. Attorney scandal? Yes, the Dems rolled over on all of these, but the push came from the other side. I have been fighting the rising tide of corporatist, rightist, christianist extremism for 40 years. Perhaps it’s because I never bought into Obama’s “yes we can” post-partisan B.S. in the first place, but I’m not so disappointed now. Sometimes it is hard. If I ever have to vote for Diane Feinstein again, I may injure myself. But I will, when she’s running against a Republican who will vote every time with Mitch McConnell, not just sometimes.

Au contraire. I have quite a long memory. I remember, for example, Democratic President Bill Clinton signing the repeal of Glass-Steagull and the PROTECT Act (the forerunner to the PATRIOT Act and more pernicious in many ways), among other assorted abominations. As for Obama and the ObamaDems, I believe you have refuted your own contention:

Iraq invasion: Democrats supported

PATRIOT Act: Dems supported

Katrina? How about the BP Oil Disaster and guess who just started drilling again in the Gulf in water deeper than Macondo without any meaningful change in regulation?

You can keep supporting Obama and the Democratic Party if you like, of course. But I think you are contributing to the problem and not the solution by doing so. I’m not going to do it any longer. If the OWS people can put their bodies out on the streets to effect change the least I can do is refuse to be complicit in the political charade that maintains the plutocrats in power. Supporting Obama and the Democrats supports the ruination of the country and the oligarchy that is responsible for it. I’ve had enough.

It’s not that people don’t question what the govt said about 9/11 it’s the speculative explanations (aka conspiracy theories) people come up with. Questioning is one thing, creating speculative answers and trying to convince others that they’re the only possible truth is another.

People ask it all the time, but that is because it passes all understanding – how can they live with themselves? Surely there is some sort of conversion or awful realization? But then, what? I don’t know how one atones for an act like that, but surely something must happen.

Oh yeah, the US Attorneys scandal? How about Fast and Furious? How about attacking medical marijuana? How are selling out and then lying repeatedly about the public option? How about delaying and rolling back environmental regulations? How about refusing to let the Bush tax cuts expire? How about the wretched cynicism of attacking the Chamber of Commerce for electioneering and then turning around and embracing it after election? How about Emanuel, Geithner, Summer, Bernanke, Daely? How about one broken promise after another?

Keep pretending if you like but I’m done. We need a revolution and the Democratic Party and Barack Obama are not going to deliver it or support it. THey are going to do their best to thwart it, co-opt it, and undermine it.

This was what I was expecting you would give us this morning. Always a surprise :)

Supporting Obama and the Democrats supports the ruination of the country and the oligarchy that is responsible for it. I’ve had enough

I’m with you on this.

Is it really that hard to connect the dots? Think Bill Daley is Richard Daley’s brother re: connection to Obama. Same difference.

I just refreshed and found myself at: Thers Wednesday September 1, 2010

If I do that about …calculate.. 31 more times I might just find myself back to the age that I am inside.

Going back for another shot…

You are really on fire lately, and I’m proud to say that I am right there with you. Onward and upward.

Amen sister.

one way or another, this darkness got to give

fired up (ha)

How could Michael Moore just be getting the news about the Obama regime? I guess $50 million in the bank will do that.

even WITH the memo, mm still thinks it’s “crazy” not to vote for obama

he may have received the memo but he sure doesn’t get it

LOL. Who could have anticipated . . .

And these are just the first years changes

That would be a good reporting project for a diary.

The information is not easy to ferret out, and that is deliberate, I’m sure. I know it is there, but it takes discipline to find and document. You have already made a good stab at it. If we could see everything in a responsible, clear, concise and honest report I’m sure it would scare the crap out of us and really galvanize some action. Which is why we won’t ever see that in corporate media.

I saw the interview last night and I think it is dawning on MM and KO that Obama and the Dems are bought off just like the GOP..I know they are praying a 2nd Obama term will be another FDR progressive term but guys don’t hold your breaths! Notice the look on MM’s face has he begins to put the pieces together about Obama and Wall st This is a long process and hang on…yes the talk in DC has changed a bit to unemployment and jobs lets see real action results

MM made a very interesting comment regarding the GOP field. If the 1% want to get rid of Obama so bad why haven’t they come up with a truly viable candidate to challenge him instead of the overcrowded clown car? Could it be that they are perfectly satisfied with Obama and secretly want a second term of him selling out the folks who had so much hope in him?

I posted this link earlier but this is MM from the BBC on the 24th.
He’s even more direct, and expansive, in saying that 0 is there for the koch’s.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/26/michael-moore-obama-first-term-heartbreaking/

“…And these are guys that were completely in the pocket of Wall Street. So he set out right from the beginning — I mean, Wall Street set the tone and set the policy.”
“So, he might actually just believe that. That may be just the sad, sad part about Barack Obama, that not that he’s too timid or that he’s too compromising, but he actually believes in a lot of what they believe in. I hate to say that.”

FDL is becoming Big Time, this site is starting to attract Trolls.
Big, Big I say!

Exactly. I wont take MM seriously until he speaks critically of the democrats.

Agreed

Want to talk helpful? Electing Obama is not helpful. The corporate duopoly having a stranglehold isn’t helpful. Throwing a few more good people at a corrupted system isn’t helpful. Making excuses isn’t helpful.

Otoh, Occupy is a beautiful thing.

That reminds me of the parable.

Some said their party was an ass and others an elephant but really it was one and the same, of by and for the 1%.

Alternatives?

How about declaring independence for a start?

What kind of alternatives do you yourself see forming? You certainly can imagine what alternatives exist and don’t need any of us to do it for you.

And I see you have accepted a response.

Long-term vs. short-term.

Agreed.

One narrative I actually embrace is that obma2.0 is a loss with tradeoffs short-term and simply a loss long-term but I appreciate what you’re saying.

Thanks all for the Bonus Army discussion too.

Occupying today? Saturday.

But soon they’ll realize that a full military assault might be the only A bc ‘discontent’ is so widespread

At that point, the right to self-defense is full on, and so it goes.

Could it be that they are perfectly satisfied with Obama …

I think Obama is theri fallback, but an assclown Reprobate would be even more preferable. With the assclown, full martial law and shredding of what little rights we may have would be doable. I am not sure Barry-0 would go that far.

I say go with the assclown Reprobate. It will at least set some politcial oppostion up–which will show the current Dems to be even more useless. Then it will allow the Dems to be retaken by the people, state by state. Finally, it will wake more people up even faster, ala Wisconsin.

At this point, it’s a race to the finish and the people are far behind. More need to be woken up if we want any chance in hell of overtaking the 1% to the finish.