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by outtacontext
I’m pleased that the President has finally told the country — in no uncertain terms — that we simply can’t afford to keep taxes at historic lows for rich people.
“Either we have to ask the wealthy to pay their fair share, or we have to ask seniors to pay more for medicare, or gut education. This is not class warfare. It’s math.”
I wish the president would add that progressive taxation built the American middle class and leads to a healthier democracy and economy — but I’ll take it.
Unfortunately, Obama hasn’t always been this strong and clear on taxes. Contrast the above statement with his Super Bowl interview with Bill O’Reilly last February.
O’REILLY: Here’s what the Wall Street Journal said, I want you to react to this. Mr. Obama is a determined man of the left whose goal is to redistribute much larger levels of income across society. He may give tactical ground when he has to, as he did on taxes to avoid a middle class tax increase, but he will resist to his last day any major changes to Obamacare and the other load-bearing walls of the entitlement state.
This is The Wall Street Journal you know painting you as pretty left-wing guy. Are you going to go along?
[...]OBAMA: You know, that’s like quoting the New York Times editorial…
O’REILLY: Do you deny the assessment? Do you deny that you are a man who wants to redistribute wealth.
OBAMA: Absolutely.
O’REILLY: You deny that?
OBAMA: Absolutely. I didn’t raise taxes once, I lowered taxes over the last two years.
Obama allowed O’Reilly to frame progressive taxation as “wealth redistribution” — which is absurd. All taxation is by definition, “wealth redistribution,” and Obama should’ve noted that taxes are at unaffordable, historic lows, and that the concentration of wealth at the top is near historic highs.
He should’ve also reminded O’Reilly that the Bush tax cuts were never meant to be permanent and that they had driven up deficits and failed to produced jobs. But instead, he positioned himself as a tax cutter who doesn’t think rich people should pay more. In short, he blew it.
The President would be in a much stronger position politically now if he had been arguing that the wealthy “pay their fair share” all along.
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I also wish he would add that the reason there is a need for the progressive tax code is because the wealthy pay far less then the labor class in regressive taxes and the wealthy should NEVER pay less then the working man in support of this great country
As a republican operating in the democratic party, Obama’s words and actions lack coherence. This is due to the stated ideological differences between parties. I say stated because what the dems say and what they do are often quite different.
No war but class war
My esteemed fellow Texan wrote: “He should’ve also reminded O’Reilly that the Bush tax cuts were never meant to be permanent and that they had driven up deficits and failed to produced jobs……..The President would be in a much stronger position politically now if he had been arguing that the wealthy “pay their fair share” all along.
——————
WOW! He sure could use YOU as an advisor. That’s what happens when you try to cover ALL the circles in “Twister” with just two arms and two legs. Trying to pander to the rich and elite when it was the middle class and the poor that got him elected may quite likely get him “un-elected”.
According to Michele Bachmann last night he has the worst approval rating of “all time”. Of course, that’s another one of her “made up” facts. If I recall, “W” was around 32% at one time.
You ARE optimistic this morning. Sorry, I personally don’t believe one word out of Obama’s mouth.
Let’s cut to the chase; Barack Obama needs to take his bipartisan skills back into the private sector.
And helping toward that end, here’s yet another smackdown for him, as Abbas petitions the U.N. for Palestinian statehood:
http://apnews.myway.com//article/20110923/D9PUC3V00.html
With Obama’s overall approval rating at it’s lowest ever, it comes at a good time.
Bachmann’s claim was — surprise! — factually wrong.
Well, at least Obama’s heading in the right direction, and anyone who thinks he can seriously reverse the tanking, please feel free to tell us how he’s going to do that, with the republicans having locks on the fiscal board.
Abbas holding up the application is the iconic picture. Too bad he wasn’t looking up toward the camera and looking confident and letting the applause & whistles go on for awhile longer. It was a good speech. I’m going to see if cspan has the video up yet. Not sure what their lag is.
Netty-guy up at UN.
“Due to technical difficulties we will not be able to bring you Mr Abbas’ speech at the UN General Assembly.” will be the message is my guess.
Also, Bachmann is already a political footnote.
The republican nomination is Romney’s to lose. He might lose it (see: “savvy” Hillary in the 2008 campaign…) but I don’t think anyone we’re looking at right now, is going to take it from him.
Hell, as screwed us as things are, I’m not sure how badly any of them want it. With Obama, the GOP has their cake and is eating it, too. He’s caving on most of what they want, and with the chickens from that, and! * years of republican fuckery, now in the White House landing pattern, it’s not like it will be a disaster for the republicans if Obama gets a second term.
The disaster from that will be for the democrats.
Fuck Netanyahu
Obama always tells half the story as President to obscure the truth from the serfs.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/23/opinion/krugman-the-social-contract.html?_r=2
Here’s the video of Abbas speech at UN.
Netty-guy greeted by total silence.
it’s easy for obama to now talk a good game since he will never ever get tax increases so long as the reptilicans have either a majority or a filibuster
Ecahn, we both know it has no chance of passing, but just forcing the U.S. and it’s cronies to oppose it, is going to be a political plus for him and a minus for Obama.
Much too good for him.
Forcing myself to listen on the know-the-enemy theory.
Yeppers.
If anyone believes the Rs intended for these to sunset quietly, I’d like to sell you a bridge…
Well said.
Thanks for the post BT.
Hey pups.
I think Perris has put his finger right on the plan. Obama is already into campaign mode, with high progressive rhetoric…which has utterly no basis in reality.
The big question is, will the “clap louder!” democrats continue to support this Judas Goat, or will they help us dump him and just possibly hang on to enough congressional power to monkey-wrench the worst of the GOP’s agenda?
it’s the best thing that can happen to them, they will get far more agenda passed when the reptilican in office was elected as a democrat then if the reptilican is elected as a reptilican
they want obama in there
I”m also wondering just how far the stock market has to tank before full-on 1929 panic sets in.
Netty sez that all 1%ers think alike. Prolly the truest thing he ever said.
I had a horrible finger spasm this morning and inadvertently tuned into Stuart Varney for about five minutes. These gangsters are already bringing out the attack dogs on Elizabeth Warren. They are asserting that she’s a “Socialist!” Straight, no chaser. Obviously, she scares them – which can’t be all bad. Now, if only the current USAG would get off his fat ass and start digging in on NewsCorp US operations. I ain’t holding my breath, but it sure would be nice.
Hey HolderBoy: There’s this legal construct entitled The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.
Learn it. Know it. Live it.
There’s nothing I want to know more than I already do. And, even the notion of keeping my friends closer wouldn’t give me any better chance to make a difference.
Trying to focus on what I can make a difference at. Or, at least pretend to.
funny you should use that term, I believe I might have been among the very first guest bloggers with this piece here
http://firedoglake.com/2006/03/03/judas-sheep/
I wrote that when I was toying with starting a blog, my handle was “arealpatriot” on my blog and I was “me to me” here at the lake
pretty pedestrian writing but I did try
Netty playing victim card for all it’s worth.
The only way for her to respond is to turn their rhetorical back on them. “If socialism means I care for those who are less fortunate, then, yes, I am a socialist. If socialism means that I think the government should not be giving U.S. treasures away to gigantic corps and give a little helping hand to the real people, then yes, I am a socialist.” etc.
Defuse the emotional content of the word socialism that wingnuts have created out of whole cloth by stressing what it really means. Surveys show… that when you ask whether they approve of welfare they vote no, but when you ask whether govt has a roll in helping poor, they say yes.
Netty applause lukewarm. Thank goodness his speech is over.
in addition, when you point out “if you like water to your house, electricity to your house, the armed forces, the beach, the park, the fire dept, the police dept, clean air good roads, you are a socialist’
man, i actually had to ahve that conversation with a lawyer, I had to point out “the court system is a socially funded project and is in fact socialism”
we went all dead eye on me
Somebody better do something quick. Another government shutdown over some kind of spending is looming; gold is dropping like a rock and many are fleeing the market.
By the time Obama and the Republicans get thru with US we’re going to be in a Great Depression and there ain’t no factories to open up this time….or any trace of an FDR that I can see.
Better get those garden plots ready and figure out who you want to live with. Times awasting
No socialists are allowed in the political discourse. Nor liberals. The country is mostly center left, but the rulers are center themselves and contrary opinions are most nearly totally excluded and demonized on the rare occasions when they somehow squeeze past the censors. We debate right/left political/party ideology as if it matters when the truth is, the choice is between heinous and atrocious.
Yes, the list is very long.
Funny thing, I’ve never thought it was either/or. As far as the economy is concerned, I’ve always been in favor of a mixed economy. We can have a lively discussion about where the borders should be, but not on either extreme.
Over time, I’ve gained some respect for central planning. You can’t do it for the economy as a whole, but picking certain industries has often (not always) contributed mightily to success. (Works better when WB does NOT select the inds for the country in question…) U.S. military buildup for WWII, for example, if you like war. But it has the advantage of being a U.S. example. Plantation economies of early south were other examples of domestic industry selection. Protectionist tariffs for certain industries were used by all countries who transitioned from developing to developed. Etc.
I’m sorry, this is just ridiculous. They will wind up spending something like $300M to get him out.
Just saying, the only way to fight against that is to say the opposite. Whether it gets heard or not, or makes any diff or not, is the next matter after the words are spoken.
$300 million is chicken feed and part of the kabuki designed to give voters the illusion that 2 identical parties actually represent a “choice.”
That puts him in the perfect position, doesn’t it? He can sound as populist as he wants without there being any danger to his real constituency (big money).
Imagine HER making a mistake like that. Seriously…it’s UNBELIEVABLE that woman just makes shit up as she goes. I honestly don;t recall anyoen doing that. Lying, misrepresenting perhaps. But she’s gonna ger herself in trouble with God.
good, money well spent as far as I am concerned, I want him out too
I think he had to wait until the Repugs completely hamstrung themselves in public because that was the only way to get stuff done..(also that quietly, he has been very patiently/good at ‘helping them’ do just that…)
..Also, he walked onto Bush/Cheney/old friends and ‘others’ longtime ‘turf’..
Add into that mix the realities of just how close the relationships between Israel etc, the dark side of politics, prior ‘actions’ etc and you have to ‘walk very carefully’. American political’ history has ‘bodies’ all over the place..
Someone once wrote .. completely paraphrasing here. but.. something along the lines of..
‘you really don’t know ‘anything’ that you thought you did and now when you listen to ‘knowledgeable’ people, all you can think is ‘they’ really have no idea’…
This site shows the interconnectedness of the economic and media elites. A corrupt ruling class that is deserving of prison at the very least.
http://theyrule.net/
I also believe there has to be a mix, but I do not believe it is even possible to have a government without some socialism, for instance, even a monetary system is a socially funded project
Liz Warren *could* be the new FDR. Just sayin.’
800 numbers AGAIN will probably send a few up on the roof. 700 for sure. 600 run on catfood, tuna and bread.
hehe…do not forget good ole rumsfeld;
$300 million????
When you add in ALL the PACS, I got $20 says more’ n that.
Well said. Here’s hoping she takes the advice. And speaking of her whorey opponent...
Wall Street is going to come at her with everything they’ve got. On the other hand, it’s Kennedy’s seat, so maybe we’ll get lucky.
“Obama allowed O’Reilly to frame progressive taxation as “wealth redistribution” — which is absurd.”
It isn’t absurd if one is in favor of the increasing concentration of wealth upward and against an equitable balance of money and power. If Obama has no interest in progressive taxation, there was nothing for him to blow–except O’Reilly. Did Obama deny wanting to “redistribute wealth” a third time before the cock crowed?
Well put! As usual. IMO, waaay too many of these blatant lies and innuendo go unanswered by the DNC AND the candidates.
DNC needs to have a full-time staff to counter this crap.
I believe Liz knows exactly what she’s doing. And we have not seen all she’s made of yet. I can’t believe she made this decision lightly or with any naivete. Or without purpose. I am eager to discern her purpose.
I’m hoping the people of Massachsetts “wake up” and see what a mistake they made putting even ONE dastardly, despicable, blackhearted bastard (TM) in congress.
We desperately NEED a WHOLE army of people like her to fight the fight. Exposing the 21st century GOP for what they are is imperative in order for our country, and the middle/working class to continue to exist.
WOW! Thanks for that info.
We sure got a lot of smart, resourceful people here at FDL.
“…for all it’s worth…
The card…is definitely there, but it’s getting frayed and worn. In fact, I would add that a lot of the Arab support for the Palestinians has been of the lip-service variety. For Mohammed’s sake; the Egyptians could give them half of the Negev and never know it was gone. (I don’t think there’s any oil there…) With the money and energy (not to mention the blood…) that’s been spent on this, the world could have bought that desert and turned it into a paradise. I know it would not have been the same as their original homeland, but at this point, they’re not getting that back; now it’s about finding a place to relieve the suffering and sardine existence of places like the Gaza Strip.
The Bush tax cuts redistributed wealth upward, and responsibility for huge growth in the national debt downward. That should be the clarion call.
what eCAHN said. Christ, we’ve abandoned the english language to the assholes, and Obama, to his eternal shame, never even made the effort to reclaim it.
if obama were half the president he should have been he would be cruising to re-election, conservatism would be on the dustheap of history, the country and the world would be healing, and barack obama would be mentioned in the same breath as fdr
if i were a corporation i’d never have to pay taxes and i couldn’t go jail no matter what i did
alas …
I’m glad of the enthusiasm for Warren, but folks, I’m going on the record with this:
If she doesn’t get a political divorce from Obama, complete (I hope) with some bitching and yelling from her, then she, too, will be just a footnote.
…and then he read the polls.
Not like one could expect more than empty words, so what are you really taking? Is the promise of some future crumbs good enough for a modern day liberal?
Obama is already undermining public education with NCLB on steroids and dangling carrots in exchange for the states breaking the workers’ backs. Ever known this President to attack medicare? Yeah, thought so. Sane people told this President that he needed to ask his wealthy patrons to fund the government a lil more equitably but he’s saved that for the election and went full steam after public education and our safety net as he always intended – there is more than enough evidence of that. Obama is so full of sh-t, any liberal who can’t recognize it is either a partisan hack or willfully ignorant.
This is the lake and weak sauce doesn’t cut it. Would you really have your fellows imagine Obama saw the light? I get it, that is the nonsense circulating on a lot of progressive talk. Why not jump on the bandwagon, eh?
Zinn warned us, yet some of us keep telling ourselves lies.
resuming our discussion, i see that so far warren has been getting by just bashing bush and the gop
from what i’ve seen, no one has yet asked her what she thinks of obama’s neoliberalism
and since the msm doesn’t know what neoliberalism is, they probably never willl ask
so that means warren must be queried on the topic either by the left or brown himself, which should be amusing
When did this become an either/or thing?
And speaking of “warfare” and “math” – here ya go.
Neoliberalism is the prevailing ideology of the Democratic Party? How’s that?
How many self-identified liberals would have trouble describing Liberalism and does it even matter?
And that doesn’t even include Libya, Somalia, Yemen, Pakistan, etc., etc., etc.
Perhaps they go unanswered because they don’t disagree? Maybe they don’t defend and define Socialism–a term many citizens seem completely ignorant of–because they aren’t, in fact, Socialists? I suspect the problem for most Dem politicians is not one of messaging or inability to stand up for themselves. They simply don’t believe in Progressivism, Socialism, Populism, or any other left wing perspective that their party pretends to represent. Who has a problem defending or explaining what they believe in or work toward?
Obama is not a truth teller and has no problem spinning a yarn. He’s rather proud of it, would seem too, if ya saw the recent story on Common Dreams where Obama told Rev. Wright
Obama could have said both, but he seems to prefer dumbing down the message. I’d remind folks that his patrons all know this is just pillow talk for the votes and Obama may bark but he’s still their lapdog.
I like just asking angry rightwingers what they mean by socialism. You can usually see the smoke as the gears begin to lock up and they don’t know how to answer, doesn’t stop some from trying.
Talking with a sane tea party affiliated person couple days ago, he didn’t respond for a few moments so I took the advantage and agreed that socialism for the wealthy needs to end and they are after our social security because that’s where the money is.
It isn’t necessary to define socialism and I’d argue that hardly matters when you can have the other person squirm, put on the spot. We do have common cause with these folks that doesn’t have to include whether we use the same dictionary.
Yes, that piece by Chris Hedges is excellent. I started reading it a couple of days ago. Thanks for bringing it up. I will finish reading it now.
They probably would prefer a registered Republican in the office, but I can’t honestly believe they’d be too upset if he were re-elected. He shares their beliefs on 90% of what they actually want. Their social rhetoric is meat for the base, not actual policy goals they have (for the most part).
One would think that would be a no-brainer clarion call. But there is something that has thrown trump against the material basis of the quality of life for most citizens: fear. In a social climate overcome with the anxieties of permanent war, social atomization, TV propaganda and a general perceived impotence over one’s own life, those with serious power and money have gotten a whole lot of people to trade real wealth for a psychological pretention designed to assuage their fears. And many people have decided this is more important.
Perhaps Reagan pulled this off to the greatest effect. Part of the evidence is how a great many of the people who got fucked hardest by the policies enacted during his 8-year acting gig were the same folks who most devoutly worshipped him. The appearance or imagination of something is often more valuable than what you can put your hands on.
Common cause, indeed.
The range I shoot at is part of a state park–in other words a publicly funded project for the collective benefit of the community. And yet, so many of the folks I know there rail against Socialism. The facinating things is how the term has been turned into simply an epithet synonymous with “bad guy” or “alien other.” Remember being a kid when one of your gang would overhear an adult use a cuss word and then start using it even though none of you really understood what it meant?
The difference between neoliberalism and neoconservatism is ….
spelling.
WOW!!!! That’s UNBELIEVABLE.
May I assume that does NOT include our “rebuilding” expenses??????
And the wars in Mexico & Colombia.
“Obama is already undermining public education with NCLB on steroids . . .”
Amen. NCLB is the single worst thing to happen to public education in my lifetime. It is the educational equivalent of regressive taxation. I don’t see how Obama can be interested in promoting quality public education while at the same time backing NCLB. Those two things are mutually exclusive.
We’ve been throwing billion$$$$ at Mexico and Colombia to curb the drug trade with negative results. I have a cousin who worked for the DEA. He says all we’ve accomplished is making a bunch of millionaires out of Colombian and Mexican govt officials and police. Although we DID get two of the Colombian kingpins, it didn’t stem the flow of drugs. Just put new people at the top of the cartel.
Oh, BTW, he says some of OUR law enforcemtn people (FBI, Customs, DEA) got rich too along with some government contractors.
Alas, war profiteering knows no bounds.
Sadder than the president not including these wars and this math in his rhetoric is that other than sites like this, there is virtual silence about it. Anti war rhetoric and activism was alive and well (kind of) during the bush years, but sadly, I don’t see/hear much of it anymore. Is it because the prez has a *D* after his name?
So here is what I recently talked about with my Financial Advisor. It was much more long winded then what I will state here because you would be bored out of your mind with the details.
Why has the stock market decrease recently….they marked was worried we are going into another recession and that is happening in a GLOBAL way.
So it breakes down to the basics, not enough people working and you can’t keep any society working. If you let most of them die, then like not working you still don’t have enough consumers.
This affects the rich and the poor, maybe not equally at first, but in the end it is the same results. Simple scenario!
A teacher is not generating enough to live. His/her pension fend is reduced. Student are not being taught. ETC. Her salary being smaller means she can’t buy the items in the store besides the basics so the store keeperS goes out of business. He pension is low so here retirement fund doesn’t support the funds in the market, so Wall Street suffers and there are more layoffs. Then the teacher & family can’t obviously go to Greece for a vacation, which is their basic economy, and they default. So the Eurozone starts to decline which makes our markets decline even further.
You get the idea. We are required to help each other. The arquements stated so far on both sides of the aisle have both been wrong. The population will continue to increase, you can’t stop the basics of procreation. So if we don’t get it in our heads that we need workers and good wages we will end up in the same boat as the USSR. Their only stability (if you call it that) is the resources that they have left, which are keeping their society at it’s present level.
We “an many other countries” are running out of sustainable resources so their is not enough millitary to just take on everywhere.
So the baics are JOBS, JOBS, And more JOBS at good wages for sustainable products..the next frontier. So to end we need the teacher who will live and spend today, but will also trane this and the next generation in school to create the renewable/recyclables items we need tomorrow!
It became an either/or thing when those with the lion’s share of the power decided to go after SS. It is class warfare. It is not math. Framing the issue in this either/or way serves a Corporatist outcome by limiting economic possibilities, by removing from the debate the other things that factor into the equation (the money spent on the military, for example). It reduces a complex issue to a simplistic false dichotomy. Ultimately, this framing will increase the chances that SS and Medicare will be stolen. It’s brilliant political speech for a Corporatist President because it provides the superficial, unexamined semblance of progressive pragmatism while in fact advancing a right wing agenda. It’s bullshit, but it also lets us know what he really has in mind.
I suggest your comment is very wrong. There has been more call from the left on getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan (closing Guantanimo) tHen there has been on the right.
The left was also very much against the Libian “NATO” involvement at the start. But even there the situation is that America spent approximately $1b+ and no lives to how much in Iraq?
Antiwar sentiment is wide but not deep, mainly bc they’ve managed to make the wars invisible.
But just as Davis contingent joined with OWS contingent today, the next group to work on to join the demonstrations is antiwar, esp by tying the wars into the faltering economy.
Nothing you type is a surprise. It would be a nice project for some scathing reporter (Scahill and Taibbi come to mine) to dig around & figure out the NAMES of the FBIers, DEAers, etc. who’ve become rich in the drug wars.
Remind your Adviser that similar conditions of U.S. excess supply existed during the Gilded Age owing to overexpansion of monopolies. That’s just that century’s version of supply-side economics.
That, and the “closing of the frontier” (as though it was the U.S.’s to close) led to the U.S. first quest for real empire. The Philippines, for example was “necessary” as a launching pad to open up China for U.S. goods.
Of course, none of that worked very well. The Brits had to get the Chinese addicted to opium so that they could force the Chinese to buy other stuff, or at least give away its resources while in a drug induced state.
Meanwhile, there were all kinds of financial market panics and depressions in the late 1800s.
Good.
I wonder if the anti war demonstrations will get the same full court press that OWS got/is (not) getting. ;)
It’s clear the MSM and the the Powers That Be are on the same team and answer to the same corporatist bosses.
Very well said, and oh so sad.
I don’t deny that the so called left, such that it is, would like complete and quick withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan. I also agree that there was much outrage about the whole Libya thing.
My point is simply that because the prez has a *D* by his name, with few exceptions, most of the so called left ends up going along, even spewing the talking points to defend this president’s pro war stance.
Not true, actually. The top-earning 5 percent of taxpayers (AGI over $159,619), pay far more than the bottom 95 percent. The top 5 percent earned 34.7 percent of the nation’s adjusted gross income, but paid approximately 58.7 percent of federal individual income taxes. The top 10 percent (AGI over $113.799) paid 69.9 percent of the federal income taxes. Source: tax.foundation.org
Romney has already lost it. Goodhair is so far ahead in the primary voter section that Romney doesn’t stand a chance. That may be a good idea because on one hand, Romney is the only repub candidate that isn’t totally misswired mentally, but he has a better chance of beating Obama than Goodhair does. On the other hand, Goodhair is so screwed up mentally that he would finish off the country before the end of his term if he got his hands on the White House, and there is a chance that he would beat Obama.
Reply to vidkunquisling #90: Your argument cleverly forgets to mention that it includes the years starting with 1980 long before Bush did his “magic” with his tax cuts for the wealthy, so that using your numbers to talk about the present situation is dishonest at best.
you didn’t read my post, I said regressive tax, which are not the taxes the right wing like to site, which happen to be the taxes you are siting
as an agragette, the labor class pays a higher percentage then the wealth or investment class
for instance, my friend took a job in manhatten, the tunnel tax is five bucks, he makes five hundred, that’s ten bucks a day, fifty bucks a week, ten percent of his salary, the same person making five grand is paying one percent of his salary
all tax not based on income is regressive, gas tax, etc, when the aggragate is looked at, which the right wing never do, the labor class pay a higher percentage of their wage, it’s the very reason a progressive tax was invented in the first place, to offset the regressive nature of non income based tax
The statistics I referenced were for 2008 tax year, the latest available from the IRS. Check the link and you should have seen that.
“the labor class”: Please define what this means explicitly enough to correlate with numerical data.
Historic lows for rich people?
Priceless.
That’s a crock. The institutional left yawned at Obama starting another war. Apparently an anti-war movement when a liberal Democrat is president is not very useful.