Book people are a strange, obsessed lot. We love books, we love to look at them, touch them, smell them, possess them, have them pass through our hands. I worked on and off for a dozen years in a new-and-used bookstore like no other, the Phoenix Bookstore in Santa Monica, run by Michael Goth, a race driving, motorcycle riding warrior mystic with an encyclopedic knowledge of history, religion and philosophy who once punched a rival bookseller he caught copying down the titles we carried–but only after the guy shoved him. I loved working there; every two weeks, half my paycheck went to books, a habit that continued even when I got a job at a record company. And I continued to work at the Phoenix, filling in on weekends and manning the register and gift wrap every Christmas Eve until the store closed in 1996, the victim of megachains and rising rents.
In under four minutes, Andrew David Watson’s short film There’s No Place Like Here: Brazenhead Books takes us into the world of New York City bookseller Michael Seidenberg, who moved his secondhand bookstore from a storefront to his apartment, creating a literary speakeasy, a secret bookstore where people browse and meander through the stacks and shelves, caressing, discussing, buying the volumes. At the same time, the film also touches on the changing face of the urban landscape where independent businesses are squeezed out; and the losses we face as our ways of learning and leisure shift.
This Labor Day celebrate with us Seidenburg’s labor of love and love of books along with Watson’s chosen vocation as a filmmaker and his love of the art.
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Please stay on topic/s–in this case tonight’s film, Brazenhead Books and Michael Seidenberg, Andrew’s other work, doing what you love. If you want to jump in about other subjects, like Tar Sands and the arrest of environmentalists outside the WH, Republican party, Obama, the economy or other issues please find a post elsewhere on FDL to do so. Thank you.
Please be respectful of our guests and of each other. And yeah, I tpye badly…
Hello ! Welcome to Firedoglake Movie Night and thank you for being here tonight!
The New Inquiry holds Salon’s at Michael’s bookstore every now and then and I happened to be in town for one. After seeing the space and talking to Michael I knew I wanted to make a short film about the shop.
As a technical note, there is a “Reply” button in the lower right hand of each comment. Pressing the “Reply” will pre-fill the commenter name and number you are replying to and helps for everyone in following the conversation.
How wonderful that he holds salons there! It is in fact a real old school style bookshop.
Have the city tax and license people lefthim alone so far? I work out of my house and got a letter saying that I needed ot pay taxes on my “business”..unitl they saw how little I made!
Well… its a small apartment in a typical NYC resident building… Lets just say its ALL books. I’ll leave it at that. Despite the thousands of views online, its still a secret spot and I have to make sure I respect Michael’s privacy in discussing the space.
He tries to sources his books from locations that have not already been picked over…. so instead of buying from book fairs or sellers on the street, he goes to yard sales or church sales.
I also think if he were to never buy a book again, he probably has enough books in storage to keep the shelves stocked for a long time. Thats by no means his entire collection.
It’s sad that many places can’t suppport a bookstore and that people don’t LOVE books. I admit that I download “kindling” books that are in-one-eye-and-out-the- other. But the reality is people don’t read much anymore.
I got a good laugh when Michael said he was in the phone book, but most peope dont have phone books anymore because of our informatin technology nowadays.
Its a shame, but with some many entertainment distractions I can see why reading has declined. For me, books are my one chance to not deal with technology.
Only one time. I was actually very surprised he said yes to the filming because I know he has turned down multiple interview request in the past. We hit it off pretty well the first time.
Rather how long did filming take? does he have any specialties. At the Phoenix we dealth old and new, and first of metaphysics, philosophy and psychology, along w/self help, help, astrology, magic, witchcraft, tarot, 12 step and some literature. Other dealers I know specialize a bit, but then again I go to some used bookshops that are an orgy of books:::swoon::::
Michael has a little of everything and changes up the shelves a fair amount. He prides himself more on having a very interesting mix of everything, vs. just one specialties. He doesn’t just put lots of books on the shelves, he picks everyone that goes out.
Andrew, I was just at the Nevada City Film Festival, which is all shorts, you should def contact them and screen there next year. I’ll put you in touch wiht the directors. http://www.nevadacityfilmfestival.com/
How often does he rotate stock, or when he gets a gap, he goes to storage? ANd do you have any idea how many customers he has and kinda their make up (though goodness knows, book people cut a wide demographic swath)
I’ve been working as a professional cinematography for about 7 years now. Most of my work is as a cinematography but I’m absolutely in love with short form docs.. so most of my own work is short form docs.
What about the short form to you love? After seeing some many in Nevada City (I was a judge) I really appreciated the brevity. But then I like my narrative films to be 110 mins max!
As a book person, I’ve got to contribute one comment, namely that I literally use up a ball point pen/book if it is a book I learn sooooo much from. Underline every word & marginalia in abundance.
A few things. Being able to tell a story in 5 minutes or less is not easy. Its an art form. I’m also very interested in character studies and find the short form doc to be the perfect format.
The internet has also really opened up a much wider audience for short films then ever before… before a short about a private bookshop might have only been seen at a few festival, and now its online getting thousands of views. Its a very exciting time to be a short form filmmaker.
Now that I’m here, here’s a Q. As I typed in 46, I’m a book person, not a video person. How would you characterize the link bet the two very diff worlds?
I destroy books, because whatever I’m reading goes with me wherever I go. I don’t borrow books from friends because I know I’ll ruin it. Its funny how everyone has their own style with handling books.
I did cable biz interviews seconds after econ data were released by USG. (Retired for over a decade so my experience was in the days when U.S. was still semi-sane.)
Found a way of adding thoughtful commentary even under real-time, short version constraints. It can be done.
Thanks for talking about books through this short; it is well done all around.
I certainly mourn the loss of the smaller bookstores, and now even Borders is gone. I thought it was the best of the big box stores. When I was much younger, especially when I was an undergrad, I didn’t have much money so I would have to choose between eating or buying a book. You can probably guess what my decision was in each case.
I think that all depends on if you are talking fiction or non-fiction. All around (books, film, tv, radio) I’m a nonfiction person and there are very strong links between writing short nonfiction pieces and editing a short nonfiction film.
I buy a lot of used books because I read so much and some of the markings drive me nuts. I bought one where someone had used red pen and marked out all the swear words. In another book someone had incorrectly corrected the grammar. Made me so irritated because it’s distracting. I give all my books to the library – clean.
No sure honestly. One problem I find news short form work is the rush to publish. This was not a news piece that was shot and edited in a day. I took my time editing over a week, working, taking a break, reworking the edit to make it just right.
I’m sure there are ways to improve live news but thats a very different world… is that was you are getting at?
I can’t loan books to friends for 2 reasons: 1. BC I’m “afraid” of losing those I really love. 2. “Friends” can’t read them bc I’ve so “mutilated” them with my comments.
My SIL borrowed a book on Islamic slavery from me and returned it unread bc I’d marked it up so much.
(Short version: Islamic slaves were HH workers & concubines, not field workers. With very diff implications for how they were regarded & treated.)
I’m the opposite. I preserve my books. I have paperbacks that are 50 years old. I read them, but I could put them back on the store shelf to be sold as new.
The only fiction I like is detective stories. Otherwise I am history. For films, I watch docs for learning and curiosity (and for here), action movies for relaxation (guns! car chases! fisticuffs!) and classics because well, they are lovely.
I should write to the authors of the books that I read to point out the misuse of words or typos. I do think that more errors have started to show up in the last 3-4 years in sync with layoffs.
its funny. As a filmmaker everyone expects you to know about the latest hollywood movies, but I’m clueless half the time. If you want to discuss photojournalist from the 50s I’m all game….
but a good action movie does do the job sometimes :)
Lisa, you should do a diary on books and book lists, etc. I know that it has been done here before, but each person has a unique approach and it always seems fresh to me. I also read a lot, and my fiction reading tends toward mysteries, but I do read some others. Mostly I read nonfiction, usually history.
In the world of movies, I watch less and less. My two favorites were Ingmar Bergman and John Cassavetes. I have to admit that I don’t usually watch horror or car chase types.
I”m currently working as a cinematographer on a feature documentary about lithium production in Bolivia. I just returned from a 3 week shoot and will be gearing up for another shoot later this fall.
On the personal side I’ve been researching for a documentary roughly based around the idea of when the terms “white collar” and “blue collar” came into use. Its based off a short film I directed (another bio piece) about a motorcycle mechanic in Philadelphia — http://vimeo.com/20789680 — I’m looking to expanded it into an hour film, possibly feature length.
One thing I’ve noticed is that just as a lot of old titles and obscure artists (or obscure genres) from the LP era never made it to CD, there are a number of categories of books that aren’t making the jump to digital as quickly as, say, the various vampire novels or public-domain classics such as Shakespeare. Do you see print books for niche markets — and thus storefronts to sell them — surviving?
Wow, that sounds awesome! We’d love to have you back for that! Don;t the terms come from the shirts worn by different workers: work shirt are blue and office workers wore white shirts? And when did that term really come into use? Or do we have to wait for your film?
Litium in Boliva? Long ago litium was in certain sodas becaus eof the bottled water used, and advertised as a mood enhancer (which it, very old school rx for bipolar)
Thanks Phoenix. Actually Michael was telling me that a majority of books in large bookstores were published in the last 6 months… so I think that definitely opens up a marker for older books and niche markets.
Another good book on LAPD crime scene is one written by medical examiner who did Natalie Wood case. Can’t remember his name, but was Japanese. He had several chapters besides Wood, including one on cemetery that was washed off a hill owing to torrential rains. Had to do analysis of dental records (may have been bef DNA) to identify remains to reinter with respect. Was very insightful.
Yes, lithium in Bolivia. As of right now they are the biggest producer and the title to the resource is held by the government for the good of the nation. Afghanistan is now said to be as rich in lithium as Bolivia, but they are probably going to sell out to private enterprise for cheap. Sorry about writing this, but I just thought that your surprise needed clarification.
Before we start, just a couple quick notes:
Please refresh your browser every minute or so to see new comments, questions and answers.
To comment, you need to register (it’s free!) if you haven’t already and log in. You password will be emailed to you.
To reply to specific comment, hit the reply button underneath it and then type away. Always hit “send comment.” Thanks!
Please stay on topic/s–in this case tonight’s film, Brazenhead Books and Michael Seidenberg, Andrew’s other work, doing what you love. If you want to jump in about other subjects, like Tar Sands and the arrest of environmentalists outside the WH, Republican party, Obama, the economy or other issues please find a post elsewhere on FDL to do so. Thank you.
Please be respectful of our guests and of each other. And yeah, I tpye badly…
Hello ! Welcome to Firedoglake Movie Night and thank you for being here tonight!
Hi Andrew, thnak for joining us on Labor Day!
As a bibliophile, I so loved this movie. And as someone who loves filmmaking, thank you for making this!
Hello everyone!
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for having me Lisa.
How did you discover Michael and his unique bookstore?
lol I love the image of the speakeasy bookshop
My friend Rachel who runs the The New Inquiry ( http://thenewinquiry.com ) invited me to his shop and introduced us to each other.
Were there any other customers their the first day you went?
The New Inquiry holds Salon’s at Michael’s bookstore every now and then and I happened to be in town for one. After seeing the space and talking to Michael I knew I wanted to make a short film about the shop.
I think at this point most customers were friends or friends of friends… so its hard sometimes to tell who is a customer and who is just hanging out.
Andrew, could you describe the bookstore? How much is books and how much is his personal living space?
As a technical note, there is a “Reply” button in the lower right hand of each comment. Pressing the “Reply” will pre-fill the commenter name and number you are replying to and helps for everyone in following the conversation.
How wonderful that he holds salons there! It is in fact a real old school style bookshop.
Have the city tax and license people lefthim alone so far? I work out of my house and got a letter saying that I needed ot pay taxes on my “business”..unitl they saw how little I made!
Well… its a small apartment in a typical NYC resident building… Lets just say its ALL books. I’ll leave it at that. Despite the thousands of views online, its still a secret spot and I have to make sure I respect Michael’s privacy in discussing the space.
Once again, I can’t comment on that. Sorry :)
where does he get his books to sell?
He tries to sources his books from locations that have not already been picked over…. so instead of buying from book fairs or sellers on the street, he goes to yard sales or church sales.
I also think if he were to never buy a book again, he probably has enough books in storage to keep the shelves stocked for a long time. Thats by no means his entire collection.
I totally appreciate that!
It’s sad that many places can’t suppport a bookstore and that people don’t LOVE books. I admit that I download “kindling” books that are in-one-eye-and-out-the- other. But the reality is people don’t read much anymore.
I love finding out of print books or first editions. Or weird books. I just picked up “sex perversi0n of the saints” a pamphlet by William Fielding.
I got a good laugh when Michael said he was in the phone book, but most peope dont have phone books anymore because of our informatin technology nowadays.
Its a shame, but with some many entertainment distractions I can see why reading has declined. For me, books are my one chance to not deal with technology.
I actually had someone email me asking for Michael’s contact because they admitted they had no idea where to get a phone book… I had a good laugh.
I went ot a used book sale yesterday and I walked so as to limit the number of books I could bring back.
How many times did you meet Michael before he agreed to be filmed?
And how long were you there?
Only one time. I was actually very surprised he said yes to the filming because I know he has turned down multiple interview request in the past. We hit it off pretty well the first time.
Rather how long did filming take? does he have any specialties. At the Phoenix we dealth old and new, and first of metaphysics, philosophy and psychology, along w/self help, help, astrology, magic, witchcraft, tarot, 12 step and some literature. Other dealers I know specialize a bit, but then again I go to some used bookshops that are an orgy of books:::swoon::::
Well done, nice short.
I filmed two nights. The first night was primarily to do the interview. The second night was to film the beauty shots of his shop.
heh, yeah, I chuckled at that too.
Michael has a little of everything and changes up the shelves a fair amount. He prides himself more on having a very interesting mix of everything, vs. just one specialties. He doesn’t just put lots of books on the shelves, he picks everyone that goes out.
Entertainment Distractions aside, a lot newly published material is online.
Isn’t it gorgeous!?
Andrew, I was just at the Nevada City Film Festival, which is all shorts, you should def contact them and screen there next year. I’ll put you in touch wiht the directors.
http://www.nevadacityfilmfestival.com/
Thanks Lisa, that would be great!
I thought your beauty shots articulated that well.
I can relate to that.
How often does he rotate stock, or when he gets a gap, he goes to storage? ANd do you have any idea how many customers he has and kinda their make up (though goodness knows, book people cut a wide demographic swath)
that was a funny sidenote, no more yellow pages.
Thank you… I was trying to capture a wide range of what Michael has, but found it to be rather difficult.
(hi)
Andrew, how long have you been a filmmaker? BTW, Andrew’s site is http://www.andrewdavidwatson.com/doc-reel.html
I’ve been working as a professional cinematography for about 7 years now. Most of my work is as a cinematography but I’m absolutely in love with short form docs.. so most of my own work is short form docs.
What about the short form to you love? After seeing some many in Nevada City (I was a judge) I really appreciated the brevity. But then I like my narrative films to be 110 mins max!
hi ee :)
As a book person, I’ve got to contribute one comment, namely that I literally use up a ball point pen/book if it is a book I learn sooooo much from. Underline every word & marginalia in abundance.
A few things. Being able to tell a story in 5 minutes or less is not easy. Its an art form. I’m also very interested in character studies and find the short form doc to be the perfect format.
The internet has also really opened up a much wider audience for short films then ever before… before a short about a private bookshop might have only been seen at a few festival, and now its online getting thousands of views. Its a very exciting time to be a short form filmmaker.
Now that I’m here, here’s a Q. As I typed in 46, I’m a book person, not a video person. How would you characterize the link bet the two very diff worlds?
Yes, I have friends who do that as well! And one of my friends, a copy editor, makes corrections!
This is a charming film. Thank you for being here.
I destroy books, because whatever I’m reading goes with me wherever I go. I don’t borrow books from friends because I know I’ll ruin it. Its funny how everyone has their own style with handling books.
I did cable biz interviews seconds after econ data were released by USG. (Retired for over a decade so my experience was in the days when U.S. was still semi-sane.)
Found a way of adding thoughtful commentary even under real-time, short version constraints. It can be done.
More insights on how?
Thanks for talking about books through this short; it is well done all around.
I certainly mourn the loss of the smaller bookstores, and now even Borders is gone. I thought it was the best of the big box stores. When I was much younger, especially when I was an undergrad, I didn’t have much money so I would have to choose between eating or buying a book. You can probably guess what my decision was in each case.
I think that all depends on if you are talking fiction or non-fiction. All around (books, film, tv, radio) I’m a nonfiction person and there are very strong links between writing short nonfiction pieces and editing a short nonfiction film.
I buy a lot of used books because I read so much and some of the markings drive me nuts. I bought one where someone had used red pen and marked out all the swear words. In another book someone had incorrectly corrected the grammar. Made me so irritated because it’s distracting. I give all my books to the library – clean.
Structure, editing, details?
No sure honestly. One problem I find news short form work is the rush to publish. This was not a news piece that was shot and edited in a day. I took my time editing over a week, working, taking a break, reworking the edit to make it just right.
I’m sure there are ways to improve live news but thats a very different world… is that was you are getting at?
I can’t loan books to friends for 2 reasons: 1. BC I’m “afraid” of losing those I really love. 2. “Friends” can’t read them bc I’ve so “mutilated” them with my comments.
My SIL borrowed a book on Islamic slavery from me and returned it unread bc I’d marked it up so much.
(Short version: Islamic slaves were HH workers & concubines, not field workers. With very diff implications for how they were regarded & treated.)
I would spend half my paycheck for years on books and a perfect day for me is just to read for hours.
I’m the opposite. I preserve my books. I have paperbacks that are 50 years old. I read them, but I could put them back on the store shelf to be sold as new.
Oooh, title?
Yes, I’d say Structure and content are very similar… but then again I’m speaking very one sided because I’m only a filmmaker and not a writer.
I’m a “fiction” moron, in the sense I know only what I learn from evidence. I don’t “get” symbols or analogies. Take from that what you will.
The only fiction I like is detective stories. Otherwise I am history. For films, I watch docs for learning and curiosity (and for here), action movies for relaxation (guns! car chases! fisticuffs!) and classics because well, they are lovely.
Andrew, would you like ot move into narrative features, or longer docs?
I should write to the authors of the books that I read to point out the misuse of words or typos. I do think that more errors have started to show up in the last 3-4 years in sync with layoffs.
its funny. As a filmmaker everyone expects you to know about the latest hollywood movies, but I’m clueless half the time. If you want to discuss photojournalist from the 50s I’m all game….
but a good action movie does do the job sometimes :)
The NYTimes has typos!
Thats an interesting theory.
I love Weegee! I was lucky enough to see his exhibit in NY like um, 13 yrs ago and again at the Getty here in LA
Islam’s Black Slaves by Ronald Segal
I’ve read non-fiction most of my life, but an occasional mystery, or graphic novel, is great.
Very cool!
Another great book is the LAPD crime scene photos compiled by Diane Keaton, 1930s, 40s and 50s. Cant recall the title.
One of my favorites is “The Americans” by Robert Frank. One of the best photo books of all time.
Lisa, you should do a diary on books and book lists, etc. I know that it has been done here before, but each person has a unique approach and it always seems fresh to me. I also read a lot, and my fiction reading tends toward mysteries, but I do read some others. Mostly I read nonfiction, usually history.
In the world of movies, I watch less and less. My two favorites were Ingmar Bergman and John Cassavetes. I have to admit that I don’t usually watch horror or car chase types.
Thanks, I’ll look for it. Andrew what is your next project?
For short reads I am fond of The Brothers Grimm.
And Andrew Lang’s English Fairy Tales.
I”m currently working as a cinematographer on a feature documentary about lithium production in Bolivia. I just returned from a 3 week shoot and will be gearing up for another shoot later this fall.
On the personal side I’ve been researching for a documentary roughly based around the idea of when the terms “white collar” and “blue collar” came into use. Its based off a short film I directed (another bio piece) about a motorcycle mechanic in Philadelphia — http://vimeo.com/20789680 — I’m looking to expanded it into an hour film, possibly feature length.
Thanks I’ll have to check that out.
Welcome, Andrew!
One thing I’ve noticed is that just as a lot of old titles and obscure artists (or obscure genres) from the LP era never made it to CD, there are a number of categories of books that aren’t making the jump to digital as quickly as, say, the various vampire novels or public-domain classics such as Shakespeare. Do you see print books for niche markets — and thus storefronts to sell them — surviving?
I am unfamiliar. Looks like guttenburg has an assortment of various colored fairy tales tho!
Wow, that sounds awesome! We’d love to have you back for that! Don;t the terms come from the shirts worn by different workers: work shirt are blue and office workers wore white shirts? And when did that term really come into use? Or do we have to wait for your film?
Litium in Boliva? Long ago litium was in certain sodas becaus eof the bottled water used, and advertised as a mood enhancer (which it, very old school rx for bipolar)
Thanks Phoenix. Actually Michael was telling me that a majority of books in large bookstores were published in the last 6 months… so I think that definitely opens up a marker for older books and niche markets.
Love Gutenburg, got all my Saki (HH Monroe) titles from them on the iPad for planes. They are magnificent short stories written just before WWI.
Another good book on LAPD crime scene is one written by medical examiner who did Natalie Wood case. Can’t remember his name, but was Japanese. He had several chapters besides Wood, including one on cemetery that was washed off a hill owing to torrential rains. Had to do analysis of dental records (may have been bef DNA) to identify remains to reinter with respect. Was very insightful.
Smart phone and tablet batteries I would think.
Yes, lithium in Bolivia. As of right now they are the biggest producer and the title to the resource is held by the government for the good of the nation. Afghanistan is now said to be as rich in lithium as Bolivia, but they are probably going to sell out to private enterprise for cheap. Sorry about writing this, but I just thought that your surprise needed clarification.
Thomas Nougchi,Coroner At Large, just saw it yesterday at used booksale! small world!
Thanks. It has fallen out of favor as a psych med, what is it used for now?
Bolivia has the largest deposit.. but are not the largest producer. Chile is but that could change very very soon.
Andrew, I am thinking about a trip to NYC, so I may have ot track down Michael and ship back some books.
and yes Afghanistan also has a very large deposit as well.
I’ll have to check out Saki too. Guttenburg is great for Public Domain works. Here is The Brothers Grimm Fairy Tales.
Thanks for your clarification of a clarification. :)
Thank you!
Andrew, thank you so much for being here tonight, and firepups/firebaggers thankyou too for making my Labor Day so much fun.
ANdrew I’ll email you later re film festival.
Have a great Monday night and safe week!
As tw3k suggested, it’s batteries more than anything, AFAIK.
Just scanned my reading record, which goes back, sporadically, to 1994. Can’t find it, which means I read/listened to it bef then.
Electric cars are driving up the price.
Lisa, thank you so much for having me and featuring the short film.
Thank you everyone for watching the film and joining in!
Yup, nice discussion Andrew, thanks.
A good labor day to you all!