Eli! The ugly truth just seeps out, doesn’t it?

Poor people are less than human and should not be allowed a voice. Because the only reason they would vote is to advance their own interests. Funny, I thought that is why everyone votes.

Guess I had that wrong.

bg!

The really cruel joke is that even when they do vote, they’re *still* not advancing their interests, because hardly any politician in either party has any interest in representing those interests.

Eli!

Thank you for this topic. I’m tellin ya. Those black boxes are the scurge!

No MORE BLACK BOX VOTE MACHINES! Say it loud, say it often, and then say it again!

…un-American to empower the nonproductive segments of the population to destroy the country….

Herr Goebbels, is that you?

Heya Eli…

PP!

Of course, the voting machines matter a lot less if you can pick and choose your electorate.

If those critters are so darned worried about fraud that they have to start photo ID stuff, I think our concerns are more warranted.

Heya jayt…

They’re not really worried about fraud at all.

except for (them) getting caught.

You’re right. They don’t like voters. They don’t want you to vote. Period.

It just sounds better to say “We’re protecting you from voter fraud” than “We think poor people are a bunch of lazy freeloaders.”

The same applies to all those other things they pretend to be terribly concerned about – they know they can’t come out and say “Gay people are icky”, “Women should be barefoot and pregnant”, “We want unlimited power to wiretap, detain, torture and kill”, or “Blowing people up is AWESOME!”

or “If your net worth is less than eight figures, you only get 1/2 a vote.”

More like “If your net worth is less than eight figures, the guy with eight figures gets to either buy your vote or buy the pol you vote for, or both.”

Aloha, Eli…!

Noam Chomsky was dead on again…!

U.S. has ‘extreme contempt for democracy’

As I’ve been perusing the entire Wikileak Cablegate cache, it’s become abundantly clear that Jeffersonian Democracy is the last thing we’re pushing Globally… Especially, since we’re promoting it by the Points of our Bayonets…! *gah*

…you only get 1/2 a vote.

Dayam, not even 3/5ths, eh…? 8-(

Aloha, CTut…!

Democracy has not been a priority for a while now, other than as a happy-sounding brand name for adventurism and imperialism.

I read the comments section and I applaud the rationalists that tried to explain how the US got to the enlightened position of allowing everyone to vote.

What’s disturbing is the otherwise intelligent posts that point to history under some truly repressive kings as A Good Thing. It’s very reminiscent of people who seem normal yet believe beating their child twice a day is the best way to raise them.

Some of the posters were obviously strict constitutionalists yet they thought an exception should be made “in this case.”

They are advocating social suicide.

He just said what they all think

How’s the baby and mom doing?

I’m a little surprised I haven’t heard an originalist argument that since the Founding Fathers only allowed white male landowners to vote…

It’s very reminiscent of people who seem normal yet believe beating their child twice a day is the best way to raise them.

You must be a Newbie…!

Hi Eli!

You speak some old homespun truths here, sir. The idea of universal suffrage is really over here in America. Money talks, everybody else walks.

If voting mattered, it would be illegal.
– Emma Goldman (iirc)

Aloha, Ellie…! Both are doing great…! *g*

Hi Teddy!

Depressing, isn’t it.

You puzzle me, sir/madame. You comments indicate an intelligence, but you always seems to refer to “other” comments, commenters, and posts. I’d like to know more about what you have to say about the subject at hand, because when you distract me with this “other” stuff, I lose interest in what you have to say.

ymmv

Wouldn’t that be a very difficult originalist argument for their hero, Clarence Thomas, to make, though? Like a snake swallowing its tail. *poof*!

I think he would be willing to make that sacrifice as long as he didn’t have to give up his vote on the Supreme Court.

Well, is that true when the reichwing spends so much time energy and money in disenfranchisement?

That would imply value in voting to my mind.

They don’t even hide anymore.
Sick sociopathic bastards.

They don’t even hide anymore.

What’s left to hide behind these days…? ;-)

With republican vote switching machinery we vote on, in the end it doesn’t matter who or if any vote, the outcome is already determined .

Eli, you hit one of my hot buttons with this post. The republican position is that we must release the bridle of the Michael Milken’s, Ken Lay’s, Jack Abramoff’s, Charles Keatings, Bernie Madoff’s, et al for free range capitalism to feed as they see fit. However, the victims of their escapades must remain heavily yoked, voiceless and powerless to die in their traces to benefit the overlords further by organ harvestation, peasant policy benefits and remnant soap production. That way they can purchase advertisements criticizing big union bosses, trial lawyers and ACORN. Don’t you see? Soylent Green is themurricanpeeples. (Sorry, been drinking)

I suggest revising Mr. Vadum’s comments as follows:

Why are right-wing activists and corporate lobbyists so keen on legally defining corporations as people and allowing them to spend unlimited amounts of money in political campaigns?

Because they know that corporations can be counted on to acquire more tax benefits and a greater share of national income and wealth by electing anti-labor, pro-“free trade,” anti-government spending, and pro-corporate wealth redistributionist politicians. Corporations are particularly open to demagoguery and bribery.

Allowing corporations to spend unlimited amounts of money in political campaigns is like handing out burglary tools to criminals. It is profoundly antisocial and un-American to empower the most selfish and self-serving segments of the population to destroy the country — which is precisely why “conservative” (right wing fanatics) and oligarchs zealously support defining corporations as people and allowing them to spend unlimited amounts of money in political campaigns.

I like how we can’t raise taxes or impose regulations because it would kill the recovery (such as it is), but massive spending cuts are no problem at all.

“But we’re not a democracy. It’s a terrible misunderstanding and a slander to the idea of democracy to call us that.
In reality, we’re a plutocracy: a government by the wealthy.” Ramsey Clark

“It is profoundly antisocial and un-American to empower the nonproductive segments of the population to destroy the country —”

Yes, which is why the parasitic rich should not be empowered since they have done nothing but disenfranchise and discard the rest of America, both of which are profoundly anti-social and un-American.

Couldn’t have said it better myself, though the OC certainly didn’t understand his comment to have application only to people of his own class.

I think there has been tremendous progress with folks understanding these two features of the rigged system as well …

“Digital Democracy” – Mark Fiore (Feb. 4, 2004)

“America Decides Network” – Mark Fiore (May 23, 2008)

Yes i am sure that very young girl, i saw this week pushing a stroller with a box of food from the food bank, has nothing to say an no need to vote.

At least the DH was open of his opinion.

OK. New reality game. Who can tell the sleaziest right wing effort to keep a probable leftish vote away from a ballot?
Here’s mine. Election Day, 2008, I’m off to the polls. I have an Obama bumper sticker on the car (even though I voted for McKinney).
I live in a subsidized elderly apartment complex. The head of the maintenance dept. (a severe Republican) stops me.
“You know, with that bumper sticker you have to park at least a quarter mile away from the polls. That’s the law”, he says. (I use a cane, walking is an issue for me.) “There are cops there to make sure.”

I’ve referred to our system as Cargo Cult Democracy. We go through the rituals of what looks like democracy, but it doesn’t result in any actual democracy.

Wow– that is a devastating analogy.

Has anyone ever done a study on welfare–Corporate versus individual? I would be interested in a no bullshit examination in a bottom line total for both groups. Who really gets more welfare, including corporate subsidize?

I can’t really write everything I want to.
I’m seeing a lot of pain and suffering these days around me, with people barely surviving.
These things better be careful. People are not happy.
One small spark, …

Good question. I assume you’d be including tax breaks in with subsidies?

Bumper sticker- Antisocial un-American Nonproductive rich
Destroy the country

Diebold has stolen our votes already, look at the Ohio ’04 results that had turned the tide to Shrub…! Strange that Turd Blossom’s IT Guru had encountered such an untimely demise…!

In any case, it’s probably a moot point. Even if corporate welfare is the bigger number, the Republicans (and probably some of the Democrats) would argue that the corporations create jobs and the poor people don’t.

Welfare recipients are particularly open to demagoguery and bribery.

Right Glen Beck and the Tea Party are not full of fact free Demagogs who use hate to whip up a crowd. The GOP’s corporate wing did not get a bank bailout/BRIBE with tax payer cash instead we the poor got our SS and Medicare taken away.

Registering them to vote is like handing out burglary tools to criminals. It is profoundly antisocial and un-American to empower the nonproductive segments of the population to destroy the country — which is precisely why Barack Obama zealously supports registering welfare recipients to vote.

Yes the rich are so productive instead of creating jobs they invest in Credit Default Swaps a market so fake its currently larger than the entire world’s GDP.
In other word’s the rich are invested in a ponzi scheme.
Poor people when they have jobs buy real products made by real people to live.

So let me see if I have this right: Helping millions of poor people to vote for someone they hope might occasionally represent their interests is “antisocial and un-American,

I thought America was a Christian country didn’t JC say give all of your goods to the poor if you would follow me?
If that is not socialism what is?

I think the poor should eat the rich and that would eliminate famine AND reduce surplus population.

That’s a great point. How many jobs do the poor support? This could be a thesis. The poor cannot afford a big freezer so they buy more canned foods-that’s the canning industry. Poor people cannot afford cable TV, so they buy a news paper. I could go on– disposable diapers and washing machines. The list just get’s bigger. Supporting the poor is BIG business.

Stories like that just make me wish for the wild west and a reward poster with his name on it.

I say that partly in jest and I know how it looks to the nutters to see lefties talking aggressively, gets em all warm and fuzzy feeling, knowing we can experience what they feel toward us every day.

Matthew Vadum is mentally poor. Is that good enough to exclude him, by his own words?

Yeah, the basic underlying fallacy (which Obama totally buys into) is that only the people who do the actual hiring create jobs. But it doesn’t actually work that way.

“Welfare recipients are particularly open to demagoguery and bribery.”

Indeed. Just ask the Fortune 500.

One little glitch, tho…! There’s too few rich, mighty sparse pickings indeedy…! ;-)

Well if 1% own more than 50% of the country’s “wealth” (the means of generating money, the ability to purchase assets plus the assets themselves) how is that even possible without using the mechanism of government to put a foot on the balance scales? David Cay Johnson has done tremendous work regarding this (e.g. Free Lunch: How the Wealthiest Americans Enrich Themselves at Government Expense (and StickYou with the Bill) [2008] and Perfectly Legal: The Covert Campaign to Rig Our Tax System to Benefit the Super Rich–and Cheat Everybody Else [2005]) so I would look in his materials for specific data about your question.

U.S. military spending across numerous departments has increased dramatically during the past decade and now makes up about half of federal discretionary spending.

(excerpt from “Us or the War Machine” by David Swanson, Aug. 31, 2011).

Further a great preponderance of what used to be the commercial economy is now contracted to the Pentagon and Homeland Security. I am remembering a SAIC consultant and a Hewlett-Packard employee on a multi-billion dollar Response To Proposal in 1996 talking about how great it would be to have a one-stop shopping place for the Fed to buy services and goods because everyone wanted the Fed as their client but especially the Pentagon for the no-questions-asked, sole-source, level-of-effort contracts. Ta da! GSA Advantage appeared and mushroomed by the early 2000s.

But they are grade A prime feed. So they would be the best pickin’s. Fetch a much better price on the open market-which they love.

OFG,

Oh yes they have. Corporate welfare, from Tyson to Lockheed Martin, far outstrips the amount that goes to poor US citizens.

A good starter is Mark Zepezauer and Arthur Naiman’s “Take the Rich Off Welfare.” By their estimation–fifteen years ago when it was published–corporate welfare was three and a half times that spent on welfare for the poor. This book is a short survey, but you can check their footnotes for more details.

But, ain’t there like only 3,000 or so in that herd of cattle…? ;-)

Kobe Beef grade…!

There’s a 1996 and 2004 edition I saw of that publication. Given what I saw in the early 2000s and from what we know these days, the proportions have to be way more dramatic. Abatement of taxes, fees and penalties have to be taken into consideration like this and string-free ability to repatriate untaxed monies (masaccio, May 6, 2011) and use them in a way that doesn’t benefit the citizens of the economy from which that money was made (e.g. going on a buying spree of US and citizens’ assets for fractions-of-pennies-on-the-USD).

Ahhh…the only unproductive, un-American, lazy, slime I am aware of are those of Capital Research Center and the very rich.

I donno Tut depends on who fed’s them. I can bet the meat has been well massaged. Not easy to price out. Not to forget the mortgage-in-mouth disease. That can ruin everything right there.

Okay, let’s dial it down a notch, please.

I rather liked hearing the fact that 33 brand new, Office Complexes have been built in the DC metro area, the equivalent of three new Pentagons, all courtesy of our ‘War Against Terrorism’…! I know I sleep better at nite…! 8-(

Sorry, NP, should I quote the entire article above that I agree with at every point? I even think immigrants that are our new slaves should get to vote, as well. In fact, I think the voting age should be reduced to 16.

I was talking to a young woman (white suburban) the other day. She has her first period when she was nine and birthed a disgusting noisy blob of flesh when she was 14. She works a minimum wage job and every cent she makes goes to her mother so they can continue to eke by. I lied to her and said one day she would be able to change things.

I see this kind of thing all the time and I was under the assumption that anyone here had seen it too, or was at least aware of it. That’s why I thought studying the enemy and, sometimes, my allies, was worth commenting on.

But hey-oh, you want to know what I think? I think we are all collectively responsible for millions of deaths worldwide. I think it’s a very good thing GWB led me to Quakerism because I am such a violent person inside that I might lash out aggressively at the latest flavor of neo-conservative drones. I think it is inevitable that the poor will set this country on fire and I am shamed that I know when that day comes I will be gloating.

My father, 81 and a Friend, tries to calm me. But as this democratic farce continues to gyrate like an out of control top I acquire a much deeper understanding of the mind of Norman Morrison.

Amen, Clark.

And Vadum has a point when he says, “It is profoundly antisocial and un-American to empower the nonproductive segments of the population to destroy the country.” Same as it ever was. When this granfalloon was put together over two hundred years ago, the only folks who mattered politically were white males who owned real property, and the Founders were as adamantly opposed to democracy as they were to monarchy–and more so for those of them of the Alexander Hamilton persuasion. The US has always been somewhere between a plutocracy and a kleptocracy, so far as I can tell.

No. It is not a moot point. If corporate welfare is more than individual welfare, then the government is picking winners. Even if the number is the same or corporations receive less, it is a few hundred verses millions. It is a redistribution thing of common taxes benefitting a few more than the many.

So in the small minds of the right voting by poor people equates to theft? The presumption is that these folks are only voting to redistribute the wealth of others to themselves? If you actually believe, this then destroying or suppressing democracy is a given, even a scared duty.

Thanks for the heads up on the newer addition.

Indeed. And with what you mention and more, I wouldn’t be surprised if the factor of 3.5 in the early edition isn’t double today.

I don’t disagree on any of that. I’m just predicting what the talking points will be that will make that reality politically irrelevant.

The so called War on Terror is rapidly morphing into a War on the Poor.

There was a South Park episode where Russell Crowe is very angry at cancer and wants to beat it up, but since that’s not really possible, he finds a guy *with* cancer and beats him up instead.

That’s kind of where the War On Poverty is at now.

Not sure you will have to “gloat” The flames may be smaller but the light will shine much farther than before. Yes it is inevitable but necessary. Grab your ego and wrestle it to the floor. That is what we all need.

I think I have to pick kleptocracy and as early as the Presidency of John Adams because of the undeclared war called the Quasi-War.

And this was John Adams as Vice President:

In the first year of Washington’s administration, Adams became deeply involved in a month-long Senate controversy over the official title of the President. Adams favored grandiose titles such as “His Majesty the President” or “His High Mightiness” over the simple “President of the United States” that eventually won the debate. The pomposity of his stance, along with his being overweight, led to Adams earning the nickname “His Rotundity.”

OFG,

Re: “(Sorry, been drinking)” My beer recommendation of the week: Shiner’s Marzen-Style Oktoberfest. :)

It appears that most Dems in Washington hold these beliefs too since most of them voted to defund ACORN.

Ha! “His Rotundity.” Now where is that great American tradition? We could be officially calling all Presidents by such nicknames that pointed out some ridiculous trait–you know, as part of the price of the office and to keep them humble.

Eli, what did you mean above by the fallacy that only thr people who do the hiiring create jobs? What’s the fallacy that you mean? For me and I think most people here, the schmucks like us create jobs when we havge money to buy stuff. The fallacy is that if we give the “job creators” momney they will create jobs when they just stuff that $ in their pockets whereas I will spend a far greayter % of that mo0ney, thereby creating jobs.And the government also can directly create jobs. the favorite republican line that “The government never cdreated a job” is horeshit.

Is that the fallacy? Not sure what you meant.

AJ was great. For him.

I’m not sure what we’re disagreeing on, I thought I was saying the same thing. The best way to create jobs is to create demand from regular people who buy stuff, not by giving breaks to employers and hoping they’ll hire people.

I don’t think we disagree and wasn’t meaning to be disagreeable. I just didn’t know what you meant by “fallacy.” Didn’t know what you meant is all. Thought I understood you (to mean same as what I think). I did. We’re in agreement.

Okay, no worries.

And is there something in AJ’s contract that he has to have at least one full month each year in which he is the worst starting pitcher on the planet?

Didja see Bachman came down here saying we need to drill baby drill in the Everglades. Rick Scott doesn’t even support that. Who, if anyone, does her advance work?

But… but she said she would only allow it in an environmentally sound way!

Not worst starting pitcher. Worst pitcher. Now they can move him to the bullpen and give him the shot he deserves. He’s still really a mess.

“If you actually believe, this then destroying or suppressing democracy is a given, even a scared duty.”

If in the minds of many in the US being poor is a sin, in that it is a natural manifestation of one’s moral, intellectual and physical ineptitude in this Edenic “land of plenty” where excuses for personal failure can’t be conceded, then you are probably right in pointing out that it is the sacred duty of those with such a worldview to punish or at least banish these poor sinners. They can only be doing the Lord’s work in enforcing the natural order of the cosmos.

what’s up in Steel City? Hey, did they blow up the Igloo ??

I was hedging a little because there really are some godawful relievers. But yeah, double-digit ERA is pretty hard to beat.

No, not yet. I need to know when that is so I can take pictures.

The old Amway Arena (not to be confused with the new Amway Center) is scheduled for demolition in December. It’s going to be a “green” demolition, whatever the hell that means. No explosives. That sucks. It’s right out my office window and I have a totally unobstructed view. I was really looking forward to it. Like they sued to do to the projects in Newark. BOOM!!

Post the pics at facebook, OK?

Absolutely, assuming I get anything usable.

Good article in latest Orlando Weekly about how FL has made it more difficult for felons to get their rights restored. Prominent in the article was a woman who went to jail for possession of cocaine with intent to distribute when she was 19. Forgwet how old she is now but she is done with law school and passed the bar exam and still can’t vote so the bar won’t admit her and she has no idea when she’ll be able to vote. You have to go before the Governor, Attorney General and three other clowns who meet whenever they feel like it. Need a photo i.d. now.

watched the gamesa from Fenway. Would love to go to a game there. Would have to deal with some abuse but that’s OK. My daughter went to a game there in April. Didn’t know who they played. Left early but doesn’t know what inning. No idea the score when she left. But she thought it was fun-she got a “really cool” Red Sox blanket. She can’t wait to go again. What a waste of a tkt. Tomorrow college football starts but that’s different. The game isn’t the thing. Better not be. BC sucks.

But to the point: I think I read in that Orlando Weekly article that 4 people have been convicted or pled guilty to voter fraud type charges in the last 15 years. maybe it’s in a link you have here. “What’s the big deal? I have a license. Everybody has a license. If they don’t they can get one.” I take a bus to work every day. easily, 2/3 of the people are balck or hispanic and likely most of them don’t have licenses. I don’t know if the rank-and-file Republican types don’t realize there are so many people without an acceptable photo i.d. or gthey DO know and are fine with it.

Now if we could just get Democrats to come out and tell the truth, take a stand about Republican voter supp- I mean voter ID laws. I was watching some Democrat from Alabama on MSNBC talking about how the Republican legislature just passed a voter ID law and how it’s so important to protect people’s right to vote ’cause they marched and died for it and all. Come on, dammit, I thought, just say what needs to be said. Republicans pass these laws to prevent Democrats from voting. But they don’t, and that’s why they are losing both the battles and the war. After the next elections, if Republicans win majorities in the Senate and the White House, we will never see another Democratic majority, ever. The GOP will simply redistrict and legislate the opposition into irrelevance. Mark my words.

My “imaginary threat of voter fraud” link is to a Rolling Stone story with very similar kind of numbers.

if could be more pissed off, angry, disheartened and hateful of this status quoism of the 2% . . . I’d likely simply explode.

Hella diary, and info.

Fuck the fucking fucks.

Thanks Eli . . . I can feel the blood pressure dropping as I vent.

LeSigh.

On we trudge.

“The Yankees will review your e-mail and get back to you very soon.” I asked the Yankees why they haven’t made a “It Gets Better” video yet.

Well, I think we thought that back in 2004 too, but the Republicans screwed the pooch so badly that even their gerrymandering couldn’t save them. At this point I might actually be more worried by the fact that even when we gave the Democrats huge majorities in both houses, *and* the White House, they did so little with it.

So little positive, anyway.

I believe the Mets did an anti-bullying but *not* “It Gets Better” video.

The cane should have come up between his legs, hard, fast and unexpectedly.

Claim self defense, he threatened ya.

Next time, please?

Use. The. Damned. Cane.

And college kids’ i.d.s get all fucked up what with living at dorms but still having their home address as many do. You succesfully challenge alot of college kids, elderly, blacks and hispanics. Throw in disaffected lefties who don’t vote for the guy this time, and Obama can have serious trouble in central florida. not good for him. I mean, God, the guy will have so much money and his opponent is likely to be a knucklehead, but stil…….

Ye gods. Well, the Florida prison system has to fill those cells and hates to see any warm body matriculate out of the system, out of their pool of slave labor. When prisons are run for profit, even the pretension of rehabilitation goes out the window.

Really. Quarter mile? Nonsense.

Yup. Thy’re almost all private now.

Mmmmmm … *burp*

Talk about blaming the victims. A similar thing happened in Poland after the holocaust. When researchers went to Poland and asked people how they felt about the fact that the Nazis had basically rounded up and killed nearly all of the Polish Jews, many Poles blamed the Jews for their own destruction and astoundingly not the Germans. I think the utter contempt and outright hatred were seeing being directed at people who have lost their jobs , homes etc. by elements of the right these days is the same phenomenon to some degree. The belief that poverty is somehow visited upon “bad” people and wealth good is deeply built into many people’s basic worldview. The saying goes as we all know “everyone loves a winner” is true as far as I can see. So the right expresses this in their love of the rich and they extend it even further these days in their mistaken belief that only the wealthy are “job creators.” All of this is working at a unconscious level in many. Its not pretty to watch one of these folks when they fail and they lose their jobs , homes families. I just had this happen yesterday , want to see a “conservative” suddenly transform into a Progressive I saw it happened right before my eyes. Take everything from one of these people and ironically the same self interest that makes them a conservative when they have stuff occasionally makes them a Progressive when they don’t! So to some degree the impulse is the same in both groups and has the same root. SELF INTEREST and we have to understand that on the so called left. Survival determines to some degree how people self identify politically. The danger is many on the right see their survival by blaming their own failure on people who have even less then them. Many will become even more regressive when confronting their own failure. Back during slavery time this was how the plantation elite kept the poor whites in line. They’d tell them well at least you folks aren’t N-ggers. The Indians used a caste system to do the same thing and the British their rigid class system. Were heading in that direction as the Middle class erodes away.

This is the way many American’s think. The wealthy and privileged use this demagoguery to divide the general population and convince regular people to vote against their best interests. The 1%’s use this ridiculous type of argument to link economics to politics for their own advantage.

Abraham Lincoln
Chicago, 1857

Alexander Hamilton said the same thing, at the Constitutional Convention in 1787 (“your people, sir, is a great beast”), so distaste for democracy is as American as apple pie. So is invective–John Adams called Hamilton the “bastard brat of a Scots peddler.” I feel comfortable in speaking of Mr. Vadum in similar terms. Thankfully, the majority of founding fathers thought sanely, though conservatively. See what will happen in Ohio when the people, having been subjected to having organizing rights taken away by Hamiltonians, will respond in fury. Out goes Kasich and other corporate fascists. That was foretold by founding father John Dickenson: “the people will not consent to be disenfranchised”. The beat goes on. cb

Stalin: “It’s not who votes that matters, but rather who counts the votes.”

That might be the only jobs program next year.

Check this out: “V :: How Much Wealth Do The Economic Elite Have?” (Aug. 10, 2011). Obviously you’ll have to read the whole article.