
"Why did the Prime Mister forget about Egypt?" (photo courtesy of Jim White)
Pouting Baby is talking to us again. – JW
Remember when Hoser Mubarak sent his thugs out to kill protesters and shut down the internet in Egypt? Mr. 0 and the Prime Mister didn’t like that at all:
“The Prime Minister and President Obama were united in their view that Egypt now needed a comprehensive process of political reform, with an orderly, Egyptian-led transition leading to a government that responded to the grievances of the Egyptian people and to their aspirations for a democratic future,” a spokesperson for Mr Cameron said.
/snip/
“The Prime Minister and the President agreed that the Egyptian Government must respond peacefully to the ongoing protests.
/snip/
Mr Cameron also criticised Egyptian efforts to block access to the internet and called for the bar to be lifted.
The Prime Mister said those things at the end of January of this year, but it looks like he’s forgotten about what happened in Egypt, because today he’s saying very different things about the protesters in England. It sounds like he wants to fight them:
Earlier, as he left a meeting of the government’s emergency committee Cobra, he said every contingency was being looked at and “nothing is off the table” in providing police with the resources needed to tackle the disturbance.
Police would get whatever resources they needed, and legal backing for whatever tactics they needed to employ. “We needed a fightback and a fightback is under way.”
That’s just so different from what he said about Egypt. Just a couple of days after he and Mr. 0 had their statement above, the Prime Mister said this by himself:
“We have been watching the events in Cairo with grave concern, and completely condemn the violence that is taking place. And if it turns out that the regime, in any way, has been sponsoring or tolerating this violence, that would be completely and utterly unacceptable. These are despicable scenes that we are seeing and they should not be repeated. They underline the need for political reform and, frankly, for that political reform to be accelerated and to happen quickly. We need to see a clear roadmap for that political reform, so that people in Egypt can have confidence that their aspirations for a more democratic, a future with greater rights, is met. And that change needs to start happening now, and the violence needs to stop.”
So it looks like the Prime Mister wants to act a little like Hoser Mubarak to “fightback”, even though he told Hoser Mubarak not to. And he is thinking about doing another thing he told Hoser not to do, and to take away parts of the internet:
Britain is considering ways to disrupt online social messaging and networks such as Blackberry Messenger and Twitter during civil unrest, a government source said on Thursday.
Why did the Prime Mister forget about Egypt and the things he said to Hoser Mubarak? It sounds like someone needs to tell him the same things he told Hoser. Instead of fighting and stopping Twitter and instant messages, maybe he needs to do something to make a “future with greater rights”, because right now he only seems to be protecting the rights of the rich, not the rights of everyone.
PS: To read more about these ideas, Mr. Kevin wrote some great things today and there is also a long article at the Washington Post.



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hey baby
The Prime Mister may end up where Hoser is right now.
Good evening, Pouting Baby. Nice to read you again.
Pouting Baby & Jim!
Sorry, Pouting Baby, but it is a whole tother kettle of fish when its the Prime Minister’s kippers in the fire.
Good evening.
interesting!!!!
The irony of David Cameron’s riot condemnation….he was a member of the Bullingdon gang..
Boris – The Mayor of London was too..
http://www.salon.com/print.html?URL=/politics/war_room/…
As a student at Oxford in the late 1980s, however, Cameron was part of a members’ club (the British equivalent of a fraternity), which ritualistically smashed up local restaurants. Unlike the rioters, however, Cameron’s club, The Bullingdon, was exclusive and notoriously elite.
The Bullingdon Club — a members’ only dining society in the university preserved for the most privileged of (male only) students — is known for breaking the plates, glasses and windows of local restaurants and drinking establishments and destroying college property in Oxford. (The U.K. newspaper, The Independent, described it as a club “whose raison d’être has for more than 150 years been to afford tailcoat-clad aristocrats a termly opportunity to behave very badly indeed.”) New recruits are secretly elected and informed of this by having their college bedroom invaded and “trashed”.
In the 2010 election, in which Cameron’s Conservative Party won a majority in Parliament for the first time since 1997, his opponents and the media frequently brought up his Oxford past. A television documentary was devoted to one particular night in 1987 — when both Cameron and the current London mayor, Boris Johnson, were Bullingdon members – during which club members were arrested for causing havoc in Oxford and broke a restaurant window. Cameron claimed he went to bed early on the night in question, but the Financial Times reported in 2010 that he was “most definitely” at the party. An old Bullingdon friend told the paper that Cameron’s determination not be caught was “extraordinary.”
London’s rioters and the Bullingdon club are diametrically opposed in terms of socio-economic background and racial diversity. Cameron’s college cadre were all upper-class and white; the rioters in London are from many different racial backgrounds and are almost exclusively from council estates, the British equivalent of project housing. Unlike the rioters, the Bullingdon club’s modus operandi involves leaving large sums of cash or checks behind, to cover damages. It is not traditional, however, that they pick up brooms or face serious recriminations.
Hi. Yeah, he could lose his position pretty easily. Things are closing in on him from a couple of sides.
read my #5 he was a thug too
Howdy.
I just finished the long drive up to North Carolina to retrieve our daughter from summer camp. Guess that means summer is nearly over…
funny bout all these elite GENTLEMEN…all little narcissists
my trees have dropped there first leaves…sob
Wow, thanks for that. Now he’s really looking stupid with what he’s saying when you know this part of his history.
hypocrite,/horses ass…him ,not you…teeheee
I believe the word you are looking for is “sociopaths.”
Trust me, if O was facing a similar situation, what the Prime Mister is saying will sound mild indeed.
A television documentary was devoted to one particular night in 1987 — when both Cameron and the current London mayor, Boris Johnson, were Bullingdon members – during which club members were arrested for causing havoc in Oxford and broke a restaurant window. Cameron claimed he went to bed early on the night in question, but the Financial Times reported in 2010 that he was “most definitely” at the party. An old Bullingdon friend told the paper that Cameron’s determination not be caught was “extraordinary.”
and a poor liar/coward…good riddance
Pouting Baby!
Well, Cameron and Obama are basically law-and-order conservative guys…you know…hypocrites.
yes,i find im wearing it out…so many socios,so little time
Margaret!
Oh, I have no doubt that Mr. 0 would bring in the predator drones with hellfire missiles after just a few broken windows.
Can you say “tanks in the streets?”
EDP!
Oh, but I think we’re supposed to claim them as our hypocrites. I just have a very hard time doing it.
Dang. I would be away from home when I see a tweet that there was a meteor in Florida that could be seen from Tallahassee to Tampa. Must have been one hell of a show…
jim! pouting baby!
Sort of defines conservatism and apparently the upper classes
it will be this i believe
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-482560/Run-away-ray-gun-coming–We-test-US-armys-new-secret-weapon.html
National Guard and federal troops patrolling the streets.
Suzanne! Good to see you.
speaking of Tallahassee
have you seen this?
http://my.firedoglake.com/sadlyyes/2011/08/11/this-is-the-dean-scream-we-need/
please read and rec
Jim, you write, ” the protesters in England”. Is this your position? That these were protests? Many, like myself, are willing to bend over quite a bit to put as much blame on elites as possible for creating a crass society and for all manner of hypocrisy. Still, it seems quite a stretch to call them protests. What were they protesting exactly?
Yes, I saw other references to the story earlier today and retweeted links when they went by in my twitter stream. It is incredibly infuriating.
And remember that he has required all welfare recipients to be drug tested. When the company he just “sold” his interest in (but I’ll bet anything comes back to him at a discount once he’s out of office) just happens to be one of the handiest places to have the test…
no freakin future imo
he is pure evil
Inequality and the increasing oppression of the poor in England.
Still, nobody, even those who put as much blame on the elites as possible, such as Max Keiser, has gone so far as to call these protests. I like a man who is willing to stand alone and say what he believes. But describing these as protests requires an account of what they are protesting and why this isn’t better described as opportunistic rioting, etc.
It’s a lashing out at the entire lack of opportunity. Read this, which I meant to include as a link but then left out due to space considerations:
Usually, protests have leaders. Why are there no leaders?
They obviously didn’t need leaders. This is home-grown rage at the breaking point.
Sure. Good quote. Still, that is just one person. I’m just not persuaded that that was the overall sentiment.
This is a spontaneous protest, just exactly like those in the Middle East and springing from very similar causes.
Even for FDL, this is the first time I have seen them described as such. So, whatever we want to say about Jim’s description, it is not widely shared.
protests happen ,in all different manner i lived in London many years ago…people of a certain class,would not even get on the elevator with you…very entrenched class society
Still, what has to distinguish a protest is propositional content. One protests something. One protests Mubarak’s regime. One protests Greek austerity. Here it is far from clear what is being protested. Notice how the initial spark, the death of the man by the police, was not mentioned in Jim’s cite at 34.
You seem to be extremely ignorant of American social history. Hay Market, Watts, Detroit, or Chicago 1968 have any meaing to you. These kinds of violent protests are normal when people feel they have no other recourse to get their voices heard.
They are protesting the austerity programs and the lack of jobs or opportunity. This is not really difficult and I do not see why this is so hard for you to grasp.
Why so quick with the insults? What the fuck is the matter with you? Agree or get insulted? Is that the new FDL? So sick of assholes like you. Fuck this place.
The march was two months ago, much earlier than the death. The original protests were ignored and then the pent up anger boiled over with the death. (and also see DrDick @42)
Methinks eblair was looking for an excuse to be difficult and then nasty.
You keep asserting that their behavior is not rational or a protest, despite clear evidence to the contrary and keep rejecting every explanation given to you.
I have no problem with you saying what you are saying Jim, but I’m done participating with Dr Dickhead. Fucking joke. So stupid. Good night.
Concern troll is VERY concerned.
Hmph.
Cameron: UK will seek anti-gang ideas from US
They’re calling it “Operation This Will End Badly.”
I get told I’m ignorant for engaging in debate and you accuse me of being nasty?? Look at what was said Twain. I was just challenging Jim quite politely to defend what he had written. Jim had no problem. The Dr Dickhead had to start calling me ignorant. Really? Is that what you think is good for FDL? The bullshit began at 42. Prior to that had I insulted anybody? No. But Dr Dickhead did at 42. So now I’m firing back.
‘evening, all-
Sorry for the OT, Jim-(the meteor was awesome, btw)-but Steven Colbert’s superPAC released two ads in Iowa today, targeting Rick Perry-and they’re flippin’ hysterical. Hint: one includes the word “cornography.”
I’m not so sure. I think the Prime Mister is having just as much difficulty understanding that there is a lot more protest in what’s going on than he thinks there is. If you only focus on the violence without thinking about how people are getting to the point of violence, all you see is the destruction and not the underlying frustration.
okay,next how was the fishing?
No I just think you are rude scum and you should be moderated heavily because you obviously can’t have any disagreement without insulting people. Grow up Dickhead.
Breathe, for gawd’s sake. There was nothing going on but a conversation and you decided to be insulted.
Will end badly indeed, just like the US in the 60′s.
mebbe ,they can rent BeBe Doc Duvaliers Ton-Tons?/
Remember this is the home of Rupert Murdoch and his international operation (see “Revealed: Cameron’s 26 meetings in 15 months with Murdoch chiefs,” Independent.Co.UK, July 16, 2011)*
*the words “anarchy” or “anarchist” don’t necessary mean the same things on both sides of “The Pond.”
Police brutality of ordinary people is routine (yet another example in “Secret Garden Party Criminals?,” Love Police, Aug. 4, 2011)
Media suppression of peace marches and beating of 16 year old girl also factors in sparking rioting that spread to the Liverpool area (see “Guardian: The Ignored London Riots Context – 333 Deaths In Police Custody, 0 Convictions,” The Intel Hub, Aug. 9, 2011)
I’m “ignorant” blah blah. Don’t tell me what to do. It was insulting. It’s uncalled for. And it should be moderated. FDL was supposed to have good debate. But Dr. Dick’s behavior is obnoxious. Not sure why you are defending it.
No. You made several unfounded assertions about the nature of social protests, which demonstrated an ignorance of US social history, which I pointed out. I did not “insult” you or call you ignorant, but pointed out that there is substantial precedent for this kind of action. You on the other hand keep implying that the behavior of the protesters in England is not rational.
I’m very surprised that the original incident – the shooting of the young man – even took place. I thought that most British police were unarmed.
Dangit, now I’m really sad about the meteor.
I saw one of the Colbert ads earlier today. It was a real hoot.
Having come a bit late to the thread, it’s been interesting to watch eblair attempt to argue and bait various posters, then storm off in a huff [and cloud of insults and "fuck you"].
Hope his troll paycheck is sufficient
he has to call it criminal,and not anything to do with austerity,or the protest will gain momentum
I”m not sure what your mission is but I never said you were ignorant. Check for yourself.
I am not the one with a thin skin and a predilection for feeling insulted when people point out I do not know something..
You’re a rude jerk-off. Saying “you must be ignorant” is rude. It is obnoxious. It is meant to end debate. No reason you can’t cite your interpretation of 1968 without calling me “ignorant”.
It is really quite shocking that FDL thinks this OK behavior now.
Thanks, those links help a lot.
I was taking about Dr. Dick.
Calling people “ignorant” is rude. No need for it. You are just an asshole obviously.
How dare I attempt to argue with anybody right? Lol.
Care to tell me when I first “baited” somebody? I’d really like to know. Give me a number.
lets get back on topic okay?
The Prime Mister has a tiger by the tail. Was just reading the Guardian and the police are furious with the ministers for criticizing their methods. Cameron could lose his gov’t over this.
Well, the only reason a terrist straps on an exploding vest and steps onto a crowded bus is because he doesn’t have an F-16.
If these riots were happening here Everyone would have an F-16 and it would be like the OK Corral.
wow
The Guardian reports on the context behind the London Riots that is being completely ignored – unbridled corruption and police brutality.
The U.K. is ripe with police corruption/brutality and while the corporate media refuses to report on it, an article from The Guardian hits the nail on the head.
Since 1998 there have been 333 deaths in police custody and not one single conviction, which previously prompted a Guardian piece warning that the police are not on our side and that there is a movement by the masses to remove the media barons and the feral elite from power.
Did not catch any fish, but hard to complain when you are surrounded by this, this, and this.
this was like NOLA before and during Katrina
Hmmm. Getting database errors trying to reply to Oilfieldguy @75 to say hi. Maybe this will work…
Wow – who cares about the fish. Thanks for the beauty.
Please?
beautiful,glad you had no accidents
Hard to imagine why anyone might get a little steamed up by that. Cameron seems well on his way to replicating the conditions that led to the burning of several US cities.
Sounds like there’s still one newspaper in the “free” world that hires journalists. Good on the Guardian for standing for something.
Different river. This is the Bitterroot, the one that almost got me is the Clark Fork (famous as the River that Runs through it).
the stooopit,it burns
haahahahahahahahaha,lifes a bitch,but then there is safe fishing
Gonna call it a night. Be excellent to each other!
while Booooooosh was prez,it was the only paper i read
Night!
G’night. Thanks for stopping by.
niters evil doc,im going too
Goodnight. Thanks for the great links.
I’m wearing my cloaking device cross pollinated with my jedi mind tricks.
That is the true joy of living here. We are surrounded by it.
Nighters!
Someone check the google and see if Bernie Kerik or Rudy G911iani has given any seminars to the local police. Any word on whether glo-sticks were used?
I think they trained with Richard Daley’s (I) police.
Tastes great or less filling?
Indeed. NOPD is another possibility, as well as LAPD before Rodney King.
I think I’ll call it a night. Thanks to everyone for a stimulating discussion.
See, I know how to ask an idiot question. By the way, do you walk to work or carry your lunch?
I cannot find a single historical example of a violent uprising by people who are well and fairly treated, who are part of a system responsive to their needs, and who have not tried peaceful, sincere protest first. One may deplore the injustice that results from generalized outbreaks of violence, but there is always a reason, or reasons, and they’re practically always the same reasons.
Night! Think I will toddle off as well. Take care all.
Miami PD belongs in that dishonor roll, as well.
‘night, Doc.
night jw. Me too. *poof*
(*) (*)
..
O
Aloha, Jim, and sleepy heads…! It seems to have been a ‘spirited’ thread…! ;-)
Lets not compare Egypt with England.
In Egypt elections were always a FARCE and people never got a chance for 3 decades to show their disapproval for their state of affairs by voting out the regime. When such a regime tries to suppress a peaceful gathering for change by force then it is totally wrong.
In England if the majority of the people in a constituency feel they are not taken care of then they have tons of avenue to get a new person elected who can get their voices heard. Isn’t that what Tea Party is doing right now after mindless, unprovoked wars coupled with irresponsible tax cuts. Current English Prime Minister job is to make sure all peace loving people are taken care of and to restore peace and order. That is his job. BTW if this prime minister did something similar in his young age as seen by previous blog comments then he better own up and move on instead of setting a bad example to others.
Agree with you about Egypt, but I’m not so sure about the others. The electoral system in both countries is heavily weighted through both access rules and financial constraints to restrict who can run or office to those who are pretty much in step with the status quo. Agree with you about PM’s job to restore peace and order…but, IMO, the Tea Party is the worst possible example, as they are corporately funded, seem to be completely okay with the wars, and favor not only the previous irresponsible tax cuts, but want even more of them, consequences be damned, as seen in the debt ceiling debacle. Among the Tea Party types I have encountered, there is more than a little streak of nihilism.
My knowledge of English electoral system is limited to parliamentary debates C-Span shows here and it seems pretty much open system. If people want change that is the place to start by organizing and sending people who will work on their behalf, give progress reports to them on their grievances instead of trashing the coffee places they need to go to tomorrow for a cup of coffee.
Personally I do not agree with Tea Party stance of Taxation but Please note that if we had a Tea Party a decade back we would not have a irresponsible war in Iraq coupled with irresponsible tax cuts which is bleeding the country right now in terms of people lost, families broken and money lost. As if it was not enough out of blue Libya stuff came as if we finished all the wars going on so far. Where does this stop. After a long time congress did the push back citing balanced budget and it was a welcome sight to a lot of Americans. At-least there will be lot more thinking from now on before jumping into an unprovoked war with an unsuspecting country.
Expect the same from Mr. O come the american fall.
smoking the good stuff, are you? might want to ease up and take a break, a walk, and breath some fresh air.
Destroying the shared resources like public transportation or personal property is not the way to express ones dissatisfaction with the way things are especially when there are outlets to address it. One is simply creating much worse conditions tomorrow even for themselves with businesses moving out and more peace-loving & sensible people moving out. If that kind of behavior continues the actual issue which caused the outburst takes back seat and the worse things happen. In my opinion it is not a constructive way to resolve issues.
Article was about criticizing the PM and I simply pointed out the situation is different in England than in Egypt and law and order is part of the job England PM is expected to do.
I can suggest more things for him to do later like once law and order restored, appoint a commission on why this started, how to uplift the community and what he can do with his cabinet to monitor plan progress. Even people have a responsibility too. Participate in the political process, make sure right and smart person is elected representing them, make sure they are keeping the promises.
Pouting Baby! Jim!