Listening to TYT’s feed from last night, I agree with pretty much everything that Cenk said, BUT his comments about the wars. He was talking about the debt deal and how Obama was left in such a shitty situation with two unfunded wars and so on and so forth. I don’t think it is fair to lay blame entirely at George Bush’s feet. The Democrats were just as complicit in our going to war and the continued funding for those idiotic adventures.

In fact, look at how Obama responded once in office. He escalated the war in Afghanistan and you can talk all the trash you want, but we aren’t out of Iraq. We are still there, soldiers still die. The Democrats have done NOTHING to defund or bring down the wars that were started under the Bush administration with Congress’s blessing. Hell, Obama is actually worse! He started a war in Libya and escalated the drone wars in Pakistan and beyond.

No, it is not fair to lay the blame at GW’s feet. The Democrats are just as guilty and the recession is not the Bush Recession as Thom likes to make it out to be. It is Washington’s Recession. They both blindly went into the fray supporting idiotic wars of conquest which have left the country destitute.

Let’s face it, Osama bin Laden won. He was able to do what had been inconceivable to this day. With the help of the greed of Wall St. and lobbyists, OBL was able to coherce the United States into wars it had no chance of winning and has bled the country dry.

It is a shame even in the wake of the debt debate, we are still playing the two party game. The Republicans did not bleed us with the wars. Both parties did and we foolishly believe the lesser of two evil mantra. Nancy and her ilk are just as complicit in the bankruptcy of this country as GW.

Thanks, BT. but of course TX went out in front on that austerity on social programs, especially education, while giving huge tax breaks and incentive programs to businesses, on the taxpayers’ dime.

Obama now owns the current recession and the greater depression soon to follow. In some jurisdictions it is a crime not to intervene in a murder attempt. On that logic, Obama would and should be convicted for abetting the murder of the American economy.

Obama now owns the current recession and the greater depression soon to follow.

Amen.

x2

Boxturtle (And he owns Afghanistan, too)

I’m all for a total collapse of the Magnificent Mindless ‘Merican Murder Machine, even if the country splits up. Anything to stop the ever expanding mindless murder that is the sum total of our foreign policy.

To be clear, I shouldn’t post before giving some time to reflect on what I was saying. By no means am I saying that Cenk is reflecting the standard party diatribe of the lesser of two evils.

Around 22:20 in the feed he is talking about McConnell and the their attack on Social Security. He says that they have spent all of SS on their wars and tax cuts for the rich. Speaking in the vague generalities he was, he seemed to be speaking about Republicans and those that Mitch McConnell represents. I am quibbling that the Democrats are just as liable, particularly Nancy Pelosi and her kind.

Additionally, then in the next segment he talks about the potential defense cuts in the triggers and Joe Libermann, (25m mark), he talks about how that the Defense Department won’t get cut and how Joe is saying that he need to give up SS and the like to fund the war against terrorism. My concern here is that he talks about it in the context that it is just Joe and the Republicans. I know it is much more difficult to talk in generalities and it is much more moving to point your anger and individuals or explicit groups, but all of them played their part to get us where we are. They are all paid by the same movers and shakers. Neither the Republicans nor Democrats can walk away taking no responsibility for what has happened to our country.

Aside from that, I agree entirely with Cenk. We need a movement. We have to stand up to “THEM”. Unfortunately to do it, everyone has to go. It is in our nature to be greedy and live in the us vs. them paradigm.

What I find particularly ironic and distressing are the commercial spots in which Rachel Maddow lectures us about the importance of infrastructure spending. Austerity rules out those kinds of investments — in both the short and long run. Austerity produces a downward spiral in which such projects become increasingly infeasible. This notion that we can temporarily go austere in the short run, solve the problem, and pivot to jobs and growth is insanity.

Yves has an interesting post over at her place on the mounting problems of the Bank of America, which were drowned out by last weekend’s kabuki show in Washington. http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/08/beleaguered-bank-of-america-seeking-yet-another-get-out-liabilty-almost-free-card-in-ag-negotiations.html Wouldn’t it make a nice bookend to the Democratic convention in Charlotte if the area’s biggest enterprise went under early next year? They’d have to rename half the city monuments.

Mornin’, BT, pups

BR’s 4th link:

The Tea Party, the debt ceiling, and white Southern extremism

Why am I not surprised.

It could get a lot worse if a tea-party type came into power. These are people who look forward to the Second Coming, and would be more than happy to accelerate it. The ‘lesser of two evils’ may in the end come down to this.

Why am I not surprised

Because you have a functioning brain, a cup of coffee and you’ve been awake more than 15 minutes?

The GOP has now created a racist Frankenstein that they cannot control.

Boxturtle (alternately, we could look at this as the pod opening and the REAL GOP emerging)

No need to apologize for expressing yourself. I found both of your posts to be on the mark.
We do need to organize better to counter this bs Teaparty movement.
I am hoping that this latest mess will be the catalyst to wake up the masses and force changes in a progressive way. I hope that I am not dreaming here and no, I do not just sit behind a keyboard and mouth off.
I am going to Wisconsin to help out on the 9th in any way that I can to stop this runaway train.
Good morning everyone, today will be a better day than yesterday is what I keep telling myself.

Morning BT & Firepups:

So the criminal Wall Street bankers blew up the economy, thus destroying the tax base, which contributed in no small measure to the deficit situation which continues to be demagogued to the skies by mindless and opportunistic hacks. Do the asshole, fucktard politicians (or members of the MSM) ever make this no-brainer type connection? Of course not. And are any of the aforementioned WS gangsters in prison? Of course not.

Why is this shit so difficult to understand? Jeebuz Kaneebuz.

The next step in that Teabagger breakdown is to then go county by county in the southern states first and look at the rate of hate crimes and historical race based concerns. Possibly even see if there is a correlation between strong confederacy groups today.

Then look at the other state memberships by county in the other regions and see if there is a correlation between hate crimes/KKK activity/militia groups.

I think it’s not so much the “parties” but the ideologies. We have a mixture of neoliberalism and neoconservativism controlling the parties. Countering those ideologies is the only thing that will change things here and abroad. The Tea Party is heavy on the neocon bit. Its nationalism (read white supremacy) and militarism appeals to the Regressive base in the South. The tenets of both these ideologies have to be continually hammered if we’re to see any kind of change.

And FDL posters should adopt a snark policy as of now to refer to the TPers as the Fort Sumter Movement. I know I will. We need to reflect the true nature in the name.

The Fort Sumter Attack Party.

Amen!

Methinks the Fort Sumpter Party would gain more traction. I think we’d have an easier time countering their shit if we leave “Attack” out cuz our opponents would focus on that word to bypass any and all other arguments.

If Simpson and Bowles and the nonreport from the Catfood commission are touted as mainstream and worshipped by the Prez, then it doesn’t matter which party is in power. They are both acting for the interests of the Robber Barons.

see today’s editorial by the above authors in the NYTimes (Simpson & Bowles, A Crisis Merely Postponed)

I agree with you.

Fort Sumter Party it is.

Egad!! BoxTurtle!

Your parentheticals are beyond superb, this one is frighteningly sublime in its capacity to produce horror!

(I am glad that you do not write screenplays for horror movies … you don’t do that, do you?)

Beyond that aweful shock …

Good morning all.

The Cantankerous Curmudgeon (moi) shall return later to share with you all, “the Contrarian View”.

Until that time I’m off to part company with an upper molar which has determined to go into business for itself … a painful thing from my, admittedly selfish, perspective.

Fare thee well Fire Dogs!!!

The world IS ours!

Never, ever, give up!

;~DW

Barney Frank suggests the left will not be able to hold it together to primary Obama – one year is too far away for the anger to hold, and “their is no strategic rationale..There’s no way in which that idea helps. It would only weaken the president”(the lesser of two evils concept being sold by Barney I assume). He suggests better is getting Obama to do things in the future to get the left back for the election – saying Obama could get the left happy via the next year debate on extending the Bush-era tax cuts.

David Letterman on Obama:

Q: What’s the difference between Obama’s cabinet & a penitentiary?
A: One is filled w/ tax evaders, blackmailers,& threats to society. The other is for housing prisoners.

Jay Leno on Obama:

The liberals are asking us to give Obama time. We agree…& think 25 to life would be appropriate.

Q: What does Barack Obama call lunch w/ a convicted felon?
A: A fund raiser.

Oh my, good luck with the molar.

The Cantankerous Curmudgeon

I like that! Mr. klynn likes to call himself that!

You’ll be better off without that tooth. Trust me.
Saw you over at Thingscomeundone’s diary about LED lights just now.
I swear, you two are some of the nicest dawgs I know.
Laterz.

Barney,

He has done little for the left. Don’t go pitch’n us like a used car salesman.

Here is a diary worthy topic. China has carried out major cyber war against government, financial and corporate targets. Of course everybody does it, and many corporations have been hacked, not just by “Anonymous”.

The “virus” protection company McAfee makes large profits as they claim to provide computer security.

McAfee is the world’s largest dedicated security technology company. Delivering proactive and proven solutions and services that help secure systems and networks around the world, McAfee protects consumers and businesses of all sizes from the latest malware and emerging online threats…enabling home users and businesses to stay one step ahead of online threats.

McAfee has been aware of the hacking for years, but kept it secret. Really Good security.

McAfee had been aware for years of a “command and control” server located in a Western country that was used to control malware deployed on target computers.

I didn’t see your comment at Swim yesterday until late. Here’s what I replied:

I didn’t like Silber long before Hillary-Obama.

As I said at the time, in the general I’d vote for whoever got the nomination and that would be a vote for the evil of two lessers. I don’t like neoliberals, period.

Vicoden is your friend. Good luck.

And I don’t write horror movies. If I did, I would have described the podling as “Somewhat resembling Newt Gingrich wearing Donald’s toupee, with a Westboro Baptist Tshirt and a megaphone”.

Boxturtle (A horror movie written by me would read like a poorly written Young Frankenstein.

Off to swim in the great capitalist cesspool.

US KIA Afghanistan: 1,688

US KIA Irak: 4,474

Iraki, Afghan and Pakistani casualties: estimates vary to over 1.5M

US MBS 2011: 26,536 and counting

No war but class war

Never. Give. Up.

Be good to yourselves, and all other living things

Namaste

Now That Is one scary image. Thanks Box. Ewwwwww.
Where’s Darkblack?

Heh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGcwEs-jL8Y

I could go for a Bong and a Blitz, thank you.

Wonder if he’s got a bong and a waffle.

We could make that happen.
When you were out here, did you ever go to Roscoe’s Chicken and Waffles in Long Beach?

I don’t remember. Didn’t spend a lot of time in Long Beach.

I’ve never been there, but it’s supposed to be famous. Anyway, your comment made me think of that place. Doesn’t exactly sound like health food though. Ha.
Have a wonderful day, mister.

The article on Neo-Confederate Tea Party is extremely important. It doesn’t look closely enough at the economic/political forces and resorts to the easy word “extemism.” But the author is correct. The US has always had this sectionalism going on, but it’s not always easy to identify. And impossible to know what to do about —- unless we opt for divorce, which we could have done in 1861.

A few friends and I have been reading a history up to 1911 and found it an excellent source of understanding the power struggle, which is a class struggle, and that strange phenomenon of people with little identifying with those who wish to exploit them:

http://vlib.iue.it/carrie/texts/carrie_books/simons/index.html

no kidding. gee thanks for nuthin’ barney.