Disturbing, what? That they are brain dead? Sadly we have seen this more & more…torture, Manning, wars without end, Tillman cover up….it is not clear what or who they represent and, yes, disturbing….

I spoke several times with administration officials who asserted with total confidence that Republicans would simply have to acknowledge the need for more revenue.

idiots.

What would lead them to believe that?

a total and complete misunderstand of the monetary system we actually have. federal taxes don’t function to raise revenue for spending (they help regulate aggregate demand, give value to dollar based currency and provide a mechanism to lower incentives for things we don’t like — for example, a carbon tax). they are basing their thinking on outdated gold standard rules.

i think the republicans (at least some of them) understand this.

democrats, apparently not so much.

Between today, and the next 20 elections cycles, the question before us all is that “How much havoc will the Right “deliver” and the Center-Left “sustain”?

Consequently, for America’s “racial and ethnics” these 20 elections will each have an attendant budget, and thusly, America’s “racial and ethnic” Self-Governance Model, will consist primarily of Progressives and a few Moderates. And with today’s vote by both the House and the Senate, will tell us, here in our “racial and ethnic” community, can white Progressives hold fast to their Ideology? And if not, they will be come to be seen, not as “cryto-Rebpublicans” or “idiots”, but seen as political operatives expanding the parameters for what is today’s Criminal Stupidity.

Jaango

It’s 40 budgets. Not 20. election cycle is 2 years, budgets are yearly.

So you’d rather he be a betrayer of our values a turncoat corporate whore who got elected by pretending to be progressive?

It’s worse that he’s just a moron? I’m not sure.

CNN reporting they were expecting Boehner at the podium at 1:30pm ~ waiting, waiting, waiting, and now it’s been *officially* pushed back to 3:30pm! My, my, what could be the trouble, I wonder ….

Its the once he is married, has a child, he will stop drinking, gambling etc idea. Obama is the wife who believes that her husband will Change!
This is not the change I voted for.

How many GOPers are lined up to vote Obama’s way today? Are the Dems all going to vote for something and let the GOP run against them on this issue in November?

Yes.

They are not stupid. They are expert in telling you what you want to hear, which enables the to pursue their own hidden agendas.

By the time the lie is discovered, they either deny it, or its too late.

Maybe that should be the story all the GOPers who will have clean hands as every Dem commits career suicide. Searching for a few needles in a haystack doesn’t help much when the rest of the haystack is all voting to cut SS and Medicare.
We should focus on all the GOPers who will get reelected because they don’t have to vote yes on this issue.
We should focus on them doing nothing to stop these cuts when we all know they will blame Obama and the Dems for these cuts.
The Dems are handing the GOP a majority in the House and Senate.

Obama was sure that after the 2010 slapdown that Boner and the Tea-O-P would realize that they had to start governing in good faith.

What.An.Idiot.

Cantor wants Obama and the Orange One to dance for him some more.

Of course!

Dance for me slaves!!!

I imagine that he also believes in the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, and Santa Claus. Dumbest person I have ever seen.

WH and it’s advisors are about a year and half behind in time. Evidently, sending more jobs to China, India, Vietnam and Panama are more important.

with enough popcorn it is a better show than most of today’s TV fare.

This is nothing more than bullshit. The WH knew they would never agree to taxes. They’re just trying to bamboozle the people once again. The WH continues to be a den of thieves and liars.

If you want a laugh Google Obama strong leader then Google Obama weak leader

With this President it really comes to, ‘If it isn’t one thing, it’s another’
There are so many layers to the onion of disappointment with him, it is almost tiring. From the health care, gitmo, the war(s), BP, Tillman,the total ignoring of 99ers, no jobs programs, and his infuriating ‘negotiating skills’. He can nod and wink to republicans, and throw DFH’s under a bus but they will NEVER agree with him on anything, including sunrise and sunset. The Clintons had the same hubris, the idea they could ‘seduce’ republicans to their ‘position’ was an ultimate conquest. That worked well for them too.
I’ve said before he really has become a lesser evil. We should make sure the Congress is democrat and to hell with him.
He should reap the harvest of impotence and lack of vision to lead the country from joblessness, and catering to the 1% that bankrolled him.

That is not that hard to do :)

The Obama admin are not brain dead idiots. They are liars. Shocking, I know, that politicians say one thing and do another. More importantly, why does it matter? The internal subjective psychology of Obama is far less important than what he does. At 90% of crossroads in this administration the Obama team turns right. Ergo: they are right wingers. Doing the hermeneutics of Obama’s psychology is a coping mechanism of servile and broken liberalism.

Obama the silver tongued wall street mascot’s czar for job creation, Jeffery Immelt, CEO of GE, last week announced they were cutting jobs for the Xray/MRI division in the U.S. and creating those jobs in China.

Yes, I find it more disturbing that the people running the country are idiots as opposed to merely corrupt. Incompetence is more dangerous, IMO.

Chait’s sources were lying to him.

If Chait is claiming he doesn’t know they were lying, then Chait himself is lying.

Bwahahahaha. Let ‘em squirm and scramble. It’s the least they could do considering the travesty of a bill they are about to make law.

If this is true, the problem isn’t that the White House is filled with a bunch of crypto-Republicans. It’s filled with a bunch of idiots.

A better version:

If this is true, the problem isn’t that the White House is filled with a bunch of crypto-Republicans. It’s filled with a bunch of crypto-Republicans idiots.

and his infuriating ‘negotiating skills’.

The thing that pisses me off is Obama thinks he is a wheeler dealer when he is the Markiest Mark I’ve ever seen.

And ;the public are the children who just want abusive alcoholic father and mother to just get along. Don’t you feel so good today?. The fighting has stopped.

That’s entirely possible.

I think by now the kids want a divorce from both parents.

I think that’s right ~ they hardly talked about tax cuts or “revenues” convincingly at all. It was the same weak negotiating from O. Now, I don’t know what I believe!

They were not talking about the citizens. They were talking about themselves and their political gain. We really had nothing to do with it….out of sight, out of mind.

Various shots of empty podium. “Where, oh, where could he be … not unusual to be *late* (cough) … he’ll be along any minute …”

Very. entertaining.

May be even more entertaining yet when he finally appears. Will he cry???

After this debt limit vote there should be an immediate investigation into the quality of education at Princeton and Harvard. Either they are letting in the biggest idiots ever or Jonathan Chaits got played for a fool. I am going with Johnathon Chait is a fool for believing anything some unnamed White House Official told him.

I think both things are possible its not an either or thing:)

Synoia@4,

I anticipate the Republicans will consolidate the House, and move on to establish a two-year budget cycle. But thanks for the reminder.

Jaango

Failed Presidency, failed country.

Hmm. Feingold to vote NO. Senate must be a done deal. Rotating villain will not be Feingold today.

I’ve maintained that it shouldn’t be referred to as the “Ivy League” but rather the “Poison Ivy League.” A nest of greedy, lying power hungry vipers. I would include the University of Chicago in that assessment.

If this is true, the problem isn’t that the White House is filled with a bunch of crypto-Republicans. It’s filled with a bunch of idiots. I actually find that more disturbing.

I think this is just their cover story so that they can portray themselves as being beat up by Republicans rather than being crypto-Republicans. It’s the standard thing that the DC Democrats do where they are always “Shocked! Shocked!” about what happened and supposedly being forced to do things against their will by the evil Republicans.

Feingold?

White House disinformation machine is spewing BS.

A Manly Democrat would have run down the republican party and the bush criminals for lying us into war , assassinating a true Democratic Manly Man Pat Tillman and for Torture/ Murder /Treason and a republican plant wouldn’t.

See ?

Right! After all, whocuddaknownit is a recurring meme.

A real man would throw his ass off the job creation panel and a republican would appoint him. See ?

Thanks karl, I hate your guts but admire you snakeness foisting o on US.

Let’s see, the choices again? Evil or stupid.

It’s like trying to pick between Gary the Retard and Eric the Midgit. (Howard Stern show reference.) Eric is a pretty evil, nasty, self-centered person. Gary is sweet but dumb.

My take: 1) Obama’s a liar, a betrayer. 2. He’s much too smart to be fooled by these moronic tactics. Everyone knows the Republicans will do this and he CAN’T be THAT stupid.

Could be but most people are enablers and have no notion of divorce. They want the noise stopped and the story telling and play acting to resume.

Errrrr that’s meant for thingscomeundone @#32

“They are not stupid. They are expert in telling you what you want to hear, which enables the to pursue their own hidden agendas.”

EXACTLY!

Just because a few of the underlings don’t know the master plan, doesn’t matter.
Because the top knows. O and Congress knows. What they tell their underlings is unimportant. More lies to hoodwink the masses.
It’s all kabuki. And we all get skrewed. Royally.

So, this adds another step (#1) to Obama’s MO:

1) Portray the Republicans as basically reasonable, but easily riled by partisanship (i.e. acting like Democrats). By being non-confrontational, we can get to a point where our shared values and love of country will bring us together.

2) Set up a big confrontation with a fixed deadline.

3) Conduct negotiations behind closed doors between Blue Dog Democrats and hard-line Republicans that continue for months. Any Democratic proposals made outside those meetings are ignored.

4) The negotiations fall apart with only a few weeks left on the clock.

5) President Lawn-chair swoops in with harsh, stirring language. He is the President, and his words carry weight.

6) Negotiations between the Administration and Republicans continue behind closed doors, with little or no Democratic involvement.

7) With minutes left on the clock, President Lawn-chair reluctantly folds, leaving Congressional Democrats no time to regroup if they were so inclined.

8) Democratic leaders are called to the Oval Office and gravely told that for the good of the country, they have to give the Republicans whatever they want this time.

9) Legislation passes with mostly Democratic votes, so that Republicans can keep their hands clean.

Compared to the likes of HST, LBJ, FDR, Teddy Roosevelt Obama is a very very small man.

Yeah, it’s too hard to believe that Obama and his servants are doing anything here but playing dumb.

Never attribute to malice what can easily be explained through incompetence.

If this is true…

Well, is it? Who did Chait speak to? “Administration officials” covers a whole lot of people, some of whom might have been making false assumptions based on what was being said publicly in the midst of negotiations.

What is Chait’s record for having access to people in the inner circle of the White House?

These sort of leaps are what drive me nuts about the Village media. And when did The New Republic suddenly become a reliable source?

The President thought he could back Boehner into a corner of accepting closure of favored loopholes. The President failed. But likely it was not because he believed that the Republicans would accept his argument. He just failed tactically. And one doesn’t know which Democrats are in the pockets of the interests that oppose closing those loopholes. Begich? Landrieu? Menendez? Oil and refinery states and CDs might be an easy guess.

I haven’t believed in Obama since the Telecom Filibuster lie during the primaries. I didn’t vote for anyone for the first time ever. His strategy it seems to me is to have people think he is weak willed & ignorant.
By now I can only see him as a truly malignant force, out to harm the country as much as possible.
I remember the night of the inauguration. i listened to all the cheering crowds. I read the nonsense about Political Realignment equal to the FDR era. I felt greatly depressed, the worst in years. I wondered if I was being overly dramatic. I no longer wonder that. Things are definitely gonna slide. Hold on to something solid tight.

I cannot express the loathing I feel now for all of those the citizens of the United States elected to make rational decisions regarding the governing of this country and meeting the needs of it’s people. Perhaps it’s good that we have the most powerful military in the world, because if we didn’t, at this point, no one would have any respect for us at all.

Obama the negotiator. The saddest joke of all. Imagine if this is how he negotiates with the GOP what would be the results of an international treaty summit. You put down your beretta and I’ll disassemble 100 missiles.

We’re angry at him and the rest of the corruption in Washington. But we’re also mad at ourselves for being had so badly by a group of con men. I became active in politics 40 years ago, yet by the time 2012 gets here, I may wish to never hear of politics again.

The President thought he could back Boehner into a corner of accepting closure of favored loopholes. The President failed. But likely it was not because he believed that the Republicans would accept his argument. He just failed tactically.

You mean the tactic of dropping his pants and lubing up didn’t work again?
Just teasing, THD.

hah “How is that possible?”s what I said in a tweet about this.

I think O suffers from a belief I, as a person raised to value reasoning and facts above all, and trying my best to act rationally, that other people operate/think/behave the same way.

It took a failed marriage of many years to a person who functions primarily on an emotional level (yes, we reversed the expected sex stereotypes) to figure out that lots of people just aren’t like that.

Making that mistake about a deadly enemy (which the R’s are to the Pres) is a fatal mistake in high stakes ‘games’, negotiations, policy debates, etc.

Taxes are for things we dont like you say: how about the insane distribution of income and wealth in a supposedly egalitarian society. Some live out of garbage while others have their daddys sent them to schools at 45k a year plus.

OH! Well, that’s a relief! /s

Taxes are for things we dont like you say: how about the insane distribution of income and wealth in a supposedly egalitarian society.

Yes, taxes can be used for equalizing the income distribution.

CNN regularly runs two Harvard professors in economics. They are idiots too. I only wish I could get in one of their classes. I know I’d get tossed out but it would be fun.

How can this even be possible?

its NOT.

you are buying into the obama spin machine.

LOOK..for once and for all..OBAMA WANTED these cuts and pushed them before anyone else even mentioned them.

if you dont understand that you are lost.

I think I heard today that they will try to spread the no votes around to those who need the cover and might be challenged. Most of this will be covered by the thugs so they don’t need every dem, I guess;.

Gary Ackerman just now on CNN said Obama showed half-naked for the negotiations.

I vacillate between opinions: that O is simply a Repub who wants to do all these things, and that O really has deep beliefs that 1) any compromise/agreement is a win, no matter what the content, and 2)that he really imputes rationality and good faith to the other side, to people who don’t have good faith or operate on rationality.

See my post at 58 above, also the comment about incompetence versus evil.

and I note that I stayed married for more than 20 years without figuring out why we couldn’t see things the same way, in the face of accumulating evidence. So I think that could very well be the explanation.

Of course, I don’t think he’s really a liberal, either, but today I tend to the rational vs emotional theory.

He’s totally naked but he thinks his dressed in the most splendid threads imaginable. It’s all in his imagination.

“9) Legislation passes with mostly Democratic votes, so that Republicans can keep their hands clean.”

That’s it. Nailed it. The uniparty protecting its own.

I think he likes the idea of being a “leader”, but has no idea of what that entails or the stones to back it up. He speaks well and is charismatic. Goes to show you what you can do with that kind of thing. We all bought into that shit.

What’s funny is the projected assumptions of Chait’s sources. The inference is that they think the “no taxes” crowd would scream and yell, but with the vote on the line, they’d cave. They think this because this is their boss’s own strategy. They can’t fathom a world in which principle trumps process.

To be serious. I tend to think he is not only honest, he is obsessed with the notion of “compromise” as an end in itself. That a community, entity etc is not authentic unless it locks opposites into inaction. — The solution catatonia provides the ambivalent profoundly conflicted individual relief. A look at the work of Saul Alinsky might be helpful, though from my reading Obama misunderstands most of what Alinsky was doing.

Unicorns and Sparkle Ponies, we’ve all got them.

I kinda agree with that.

Somewhere, a week or so ago, I read a comment pointing to the theory of negotiation taught at Harvard Law in O’s time, based on (or described in) “Getting to Yes.” It teaches that the goal is an agreement, based on compromise, without paying much, or even any, attention to the content of said agreement. Agreement is the overarching goal, devaluing whether parties actually get anything worthwhile, agreement is all.

I had a lightbulb moment…this theory (whether it describes Harvard Law courses accurately I’m not competent) to say really seemed to explain almost everything that flummoxed me about Obama’s actions and his words. He really seems to see any kind of agreement as a big win, and be perplexed by criticism of the agreements’ contents.
“

OT: Hiss, boo! REp Tim Griffin up on Cspan debate (I have audio muted)–he’s one of the notorious Repub US Attys put in when “lib USA’s” were fired, very involved in that whole debacle.
I can’t help noticing how many of the participants (male) in that fiasco, and newish R politicans in general (except for the matinee idol type like Ryan) look like him…round pudgy face, round body somewhat disguised in expensive suit, thinning hair, permanent sneer on face, no matter what he’s saying…

OK, OT and ad hominem musing over. mea culpa.

I believe your scholarship adds to what I think I am seeing. It is the process– not as you point out the content. It really is crazy making. I do wish there were some way to get this man out of office. I am certain I will vote for a GOP before him.

sure.

but this faux “raising revenue” thing just shows them up as idiots.

Similar findings in similar arenas.

I *always* thought that there were certain topics that had to be dealt with rationally (for example, health) although I understood that some people had trouble being rational about other issues. Don’t know where I got any idea that such personalities could tell the *difference.* They can’t.

Hugs, teja!

Gimme, gimme, gimme!

Our ninth GA district TP Rep looks like Ryan too! Maybe we need to look in their belly buttons. Remember that old Sci Fi story about androids. They had “made in USA” printed there?

“Crazymaking.”

Yes, I almost said something about that in my response to tejanarusa@78.

Facing such irrationality (or refusal to be logical) with a logical mind seeking good will for all will make you completely hysterical.

Part of the country is feeling quite hysterical at this point.

on edit: It’s all about control, not about content, because somehow making a compromise and getting a “win” is controlling the situation.

Part of the country is feeling quite hysterical at this point.

Mea culpa. I certainly am.

It’s not your fault. It’s the only sane response to this kind of dynamic. They’re just not into us. We have to leave them.

This kind of Kabuki Show *nonsense* is, quite frankly, just insulting and/or pouring salt on the wound. Seriously? Like you really really kept clapping louder, and you really really believed that Tinkerbell would grant your wish of unicorns and getting to yes???

Buncha lying bullsh*t. Meaningless at that. Put forth as some kind of Kabuki Show cover for what they’re really doing (which Obama is quite cognizant of), which is: ripping off the middle/working class for the benefit of the mega-wealthy… yet again.

With due respect, I think Obama’s a solid conservative, who’s behaving exactly as he wants to behave. Speaking only for myself, I think all this crap about “negotiating” and “bipartisanship” is bogus crap put forth as more Kabuki Show. Obama gives the conservatives *exactly* what they want every fricking time. Name one thing Obama has done that’s remotely progessive or liberal or whatever… just one. Would love to know about it; only seeing conservative stuff happening with the Zero Admin, myself.

I have always learned a lot from the insights of John Ralston Saul. Here are a few relevant thoughts.

Re Obama:

“Because the managerial élites are now so large and have such a dominant effect on our educational system, we are actually teaching most people to manage, not to think. Not only do we not reward thought, we punish it as unprofessional.” [snip] “Our élite is primarily and increasingly managerial. A managerial élite manages. A crisis, unfortunately, requires thought. Thought is not a management function.” – The Unconscious Civilization

“It is the considered opinion of most members of our rational élites that, in any given difference of opinion with reality, reality is wrong.” – The Doubter’s Companion

Re SS:

“Given our inability over the past two decades to deal with an unbreakable chain of unemployment, debt, inflation and no real growth, we have drifted farther and farther out into a cold, unfriendly, confusing sea. The new certitude of those in positions of authority – those out of the water – is that the certain answer is to cut away the life preservers.” – The Unconscious Civilization

And re the right’s attitude toward taxes:

“The rise of democracy was driven by the citizens’ desire to escape from the paternalistic and arbitrary charity of those with money. They accomplished this by replacing charity with a fair, balanced, arm’s-length system of public obligation. The principle tool of that obligation was taxation.” – Reflections of a Siamese Twin

In the US, we seem to have confused the role of the technocrat, especially those who look good on TV, with the role of the leader.

And accepting your premise strictly for the sake of argument, then you must simply agree that the national debt of the country means absolutely nothing. It is strictly a scorecard to keep track of what has gone on in the past years’ budgets and an aggregate of those figures. It does not serve to mark anything else. Otherwise, you are basing your premise on outdated economics and gold standard thinking.

He really seems to see any kind of agreement as a big win, and be perplexed by criticism of the agreements’ contents.

Then lets all agree that he should be impeached. That would make us all happy! :)

We don’t have to choose between stupid and evil; there is every possibility that both are true.

For example, an evil lie that claims the White House was stupid is, itself, stupid. And evil.

Hard to believe people are still asking if this or that particular strategy is stupid or evil. I’m going to come down on the side of Obama being evil and con artist. Anyone have any doubts, make yourself a list, decide for yourself.

Someone even mentioned don’t assume evil where incompetence will do, but there exists a pattern and we have had enough time for him to show us who he is.

Obama Must Go.

Reluctant Fascists or Eager Fascists, that’s our choice with the Spineless-D and Repukes.

These are great observations. I have not read Saul but will. Thanks

If the “getting to yes” theory is valid and explains how Obama operates, a reliance on such an academic idea (absent consideration for content and other thoughtful exploration) may suggest a good deal of naivte or experienced competence on the part of Obama. Along these lines, I just remembered my impression of him at the start of his term when he was visiting various heads of state around the world. The thing that instantly struck me was how in over his head he looked. You could see it in his body language and the look on his face.

If the above is legitimate, it may also help explain why he is such a useful corporate tool, an unthoughtful technocratic manager, and therefore how he came to be President.

“The Doubter’s Companion” and “The Unconscious Civilization” are my favorites. The former actually had a lot to do with shaping my teaching philosophy.

And I will read Alinsky. Thanks for that!

Should read: “lack of experienced competence.”

Chait’s sources were lying to him. If Chait is claiming he doesn’t know they were lying, then Chait himself is lying.

My belief also.