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Only two links this morning. First, the Shrill One.
In the long run, however, Democrats won’t be the only losers. What Republicans have just gotten away with calls our whole system of government into question. After all, how can American democracy work if whichever party is most prepared to be ruthless, to threaten the nation’s economic security, gets to dictate policy? And the answer is, maybe it can’t.
If you want to have power, stop slobbering all over abject failure. And stop dreaming that you’ll ever have any influence at the top by elevating people whose only systemic function is to serve as an opiate for liberals when they’re getting screwed. Good lord, Mitch McConnell ran circles around the Democrats these past few weeks. Even as you watched him orchestrate the American decline, you had to marvel at his political skill — and acknowledge there was no one on the left who could do that.
How can you hope to challenge the established order when your leaders are nothing more than serial losers?
But it’s a win for “centrism and compromise” Jonathan Alter told me last night on MSNBC.
Oy.
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Morning, BT.
Jonathan Alter is an idiot.
Good morning, Blue Texan. I’m already on my second helping of profanity after catching up on the posts from last evening.
#FU centrism and compromise
I would be happy to never hear or read those terms again. And please add
#FU bipartisanship
That is all.
We need Robin Hood. Instead we get Robbing Hood.
Boxturtle (Takes from the wretch and gives to the peer)
FWIW the comments on Crooks and Liars are priceless. There are people who now say they won’t vote for Obama. It took them all this time to feel the knife in their back. Astounding.
Folks on NPR don’t like it much either…Good Morning…I surely know I will have to give us following most of this stuff; just get the Cliff Notes with few details and none of the process.
Tea Party Wins! Tea Party Wins! Tea Party Wins!. But then they were the only ones willing to fight. “Liberals”, following the lead of Obama were looking for that “centrist” bipartisan solution. Now the PTB can swoon in unison claiming “disaster” has been averted and the American people are the real “winners.” Little do they know what’s coming at them but then successful banana republics depend on an ignorant and passive populace.
The Democrats are toast. I don’t want to set eyes on any of those liars for the remainder of their terms. I can’t wait for them to spew their lies and how they had to be the grown ups. I hope they enjoy their retirement. After all, they are all millionaires, so it isn’t like they’ll be hurting.
Good morning everyone.
So when is the next crisis set to appear for our grand leader to work his compromises on?
Looks like ObamaLLP has lost most of the Kossacks with this one. He might as well change parties.
Boxturtle (Ya know, if he got a real challenge from the left, I think he WOULD change parties)
David Pfl…(whatever) telling us what a good deal so we can live within our means…Committee such a good idea.
I read all of the Krugman editorial that was linked by Blue Texan and everyone here should do the same. It is soundly reasoned. When you read it, notice the multiple examples of Obama serving the Republican agenda by surrendering to them at every turn.
This conclusion is unavoidable: Obama is, in fact, a Republican mole. That may sound like hyperbole, but I don’t think Obama is stupid. Neither can I believe that anyone who aspires to the presidency and arrives there could simply be that extremely weak-willed.
Put aside your cognitive dissonance and realize that the partisan wrangling is all theater. The professional politicians all work for the same people. Obama is Wall Street’s boy. What did Barry the Lackey say about Wall Street CEOs Blankfein and Dimon? “I know those guys. The are very savvy businessmen.” They sure are. They contributed heavily to Barry’s 2008 campaign. It was a shrewd investment.
The Democrats would seem to be content to be the center right wing of the far right Republican Party.
could they have plotted this malignant plan,from CDOs,to housing bubble,to mop up operation of cutting spending?,are they that malignant?
A few years ago Pennsylvania had Operation Clean Sweep a throw the bums out movement. That movement should go national. Obama’s a brilliant con man and he got exactly what he wanted. Bush had a democratic majority and he got exactly what he wanted. About that two party system …how’s that working out for us.
Good morning, all.
And, good world ……
And guess what?
Things are only going to get worse.
The daily outrages are going to continue …
In fact, they are going to accelerate.
Is there anyone, here, willing to disagree?
Have we not seen the future?
Is the writing not on the wall?
Perhaps it is time to look beyond politics “as we know them”?
To look beyond Capitalism “as she is now practiced”?
To consider rebuilding, even starting afresh?
“When in the course of human events it becomes necessary …”
Are we “there” yet, even if the many have not yet even begun to understand the magnitude of the treason against civil society and humanity which just culminated, quite effectively, and quite disasterously, in the overthrow of reason, truth, and fundamental democratic principle?
DW
see my 14
yes it seems ,it has ALL BEEN orchestrated
getting us into the mess
not wanting a WPA stimulus
then swooping in to grab everything
shock doctrine 101
Obama saw political parties as merely an avenue to political power. He recognized that being a black man the path of least resistance would be to hitch his star to the Democratic Party. Philosophically he was a trickle down Republican and the ultimate Wall St. mascot. His manipulation of the media and the people through his desire for “bipartisanship” and “consensus” was brilliant in seeing that the Republican agenda would prevail. Genius, cynical and ultimately evil incarnate.
Yes they are do we need more proof?
So what do we do Mr. Bartoo? I have been asking for months now. I am with ya but we need a cohesive consistent message and plan. Help me understand what our goal is.
I think one of the “tells” last night was when senator durbin (I refuse to capitalize) walked over after mitch mcconnell finished talking and shook his hand.
I think we see in Obama, not a Republican mole, but the new age of politics in America.
We no longer have a 2-party system. It is now officially a post-party system in which the politicians take their orders directly from the PTB.
We the People are out of the picture, entirely.
Isn’t that called Fascism?
Yes Fascism 101.
Tomorrow 6 of us (so far) have signed up for that MoveOn thing ‘Don’t Destroy the American Dream’ at Bob Corker’s office.
First- isn’t that a Lame Ass slogan? It is sa bad as asking for ‘balance’.
Anyway, what do I say? Our president has betrayed us all by selling us out to Wall Street and Corporations and I am going to do everything I can to defeat him at the polls in 2012? I’m going to hand your guy the election because I refuse under any circumstances to vote for the fucker again?
And I do refuse under any circumstances to vote for that fucker again.
So what should we get the President for his Birthday. I know that I will be celebrating!
Thru the actions of the Super Duper commission to do its will.
You have delineated what is necessary; coherent and appealing narratives of a better world, to begin with, as few are even vagely clear as to what a better, more sane, and more human world would look like, but more importantly, what it would feel like.
Then, we must speak to what is necessary for civil society to thrive AND survive.
Are we to imagine, that the founders of this nation simply decided, one day, to challenge, out of the blue, entrenched and intractible power? Or did a common plight and shared ideals grow to become a new view of possibility and of life itself?
Did not our ancestors talk, at length and depth, among themselves for some years before a critical mass of courage and understanding was reached?
There are NO quick, safe,or easy answers, popeye99.
And yet, we already have the tools and the talent to do what must be done.
Further, whether we know it or not, we have ALL been preparing for just this time, throughout all of our individual lives….
DW
Mornin’, BT, pups
A centrist is a guy who can’t decide which works best, a belt or suspenders, so he wears both.
A “hold-up”, eh, SD?
;~DW
Hey DWB!
I’ve been harping on this for ages along with dumping this entire political process that we all.. and especially people like Jane have been trying to work with.
It’s time for American Revolution ver. 2. This version is past its sell date… it’s expired.
Whether we are talking pitch forks or simply a massive civil disobedience of all workers and unemployed to shut it down… we can’t sustain this madness. The worst IS yet to come.
Centrism use to work for the ” greatest good for the greatest number.” Now, the concept means “something all the crooks can live on and damn anyone else.
This is not balance. This is not centrism. It is a criminal authority.
He has no political center. He’s an opportunist who want to play the game and cash out. He like the spotlight and the power and will ride it all for all it’s worth. He’s a world class prevaricator and actor. And one who wants the big bucks and to hang out up in the ivory tower with the big guys. Not bad for a buy born poor and black and in wherever.
Now you’ve got me wondering, what have I learned to do and be to survive this?
* A creative bent
* A will to see what’s truly important
* The ability to enjoy life without a lot of toys
Thank you for your respectful and insightful comment. I will not vote for either party again. I am with you and the others here at FDL. I am a layman and I am absorbing the insights and wisdom of the posters here. I want to be a part of the solution. I now return to lurker status. In all respect thanks again.
The Dems in the House don’t have the votes to stop any legislation so why would any of them vote for this shit? Hoping that the DCCC will fill their campaign coffers next year?
Where shall we find the inspiration to do what is necessary?
Both within our selves …
and WITH our fellow sentient human beings.
It cannot be done without love and conviction.
Those of us who understand, if we truly care, must find the courage to “lead” as selise leads, by exploring new or different “territory” and sharing such discovery or understanding as may be found in those explorations with everyone else.
WE MUST look at both power AND wealth in a very different way, beyond the flat-earth notions of control and force, beyond manipulation, deceit, and appeals to base emotion.
Are we ready to begin?
DW
“But it’s a win for “centrism and compromise”….”
Bad policy is bad policy. It matters little if it comes from the left, the right or some screwed up bi-partisan center.
The economic system no longer works for the benefit of a majority of the people and the political system is so corrupted by money that it is incapable of reform or working in the peoples interests. The current economic and political system have ceased to represent the needs of the vast majority of the populace and has therefore ceded it’s legitimacy. It’s time it be replaced and/or overthrown with all options on the table. From civil disobedience to mass protest let this system die a death of a thousand cuts.
continuing resolution sometime in September
The problem is two fold… one is to tear down a broken system which more and more recognize only serves the already rich at the expense of everyone else. But the more challenging is to propose the new world.. and how it will work and not lay down and be rolled over by the same powerful forces that are not going away unless you take *it* away from them and give them some bastille time.
If we want a real democracy which expresses the will of the people, the money thing has to go. Monopoly capitalism… has to go. Fiat money and money changing… has to go. Finance is not a productive endeavor.. it is a scam… wealth creation and investment… has to go. This is a very radical change because you leave any of the old institutions in place as they all are built on the same foundations.
Do not be a lurker for you are on the front lines, popeye.
Retreat, temporarily, if you must, but return, refreshed and emboldened to the fray … we’ve need of your wit and your wisdom, popeye99!
DW
I’ve been thinking of this for years… no kids… no living parents… no mortgages… and a sailboat to take me outta here ready with a few days of prep.
And this needs to be the message drummed out.
abjectly myopic ding dongs, the coming Super Congress means Corporate Sugar Daddies & Mama’s now have one stop shopping
I don’t think campaign finance reform will even help at this point. We have gone way beyond that problem.
We are facing an entirely new animal here.
No more Kingdom and Power and Glory?
I’ll happily adopt the way the Native Americans related to the world.
Hey Firedogs -
Today marks the 40th Anniversary of the Concert for Bangladesh
Proceeds from the album and the movie STILL GO to The George Harrison Fund for UNICEF. Presently benefiting the Horn of Africa – ITunes has it
watch, listen, livestream, download, DONATE here :D
We’ll need a bigger (sail) boat.
But, in our perview, we’re actually considering taking a camping trip for the rest of our lives.
The new world frees people at the individual level, the level of being, it is our proper brithright and the ONLY way our species may survive — is everyone is encouraged to be fully alive.
On with you, SanderO!
We’ve spoken before, you and I, and know what must be said and done.
Humanity has ALL that it needs but someone, first, must plant the seeds.
DW
What are you gonna barter for food on your sailboat? To say nothing of repairs, etc.
We’ve been engaged in decades of tuning our *democracy*… but the tune up has been to favor the wealthy and corporations… against the rights and interests of the people. Their labor, blood and treasure has been appropriated for the wealth of the capitalist class using our *democracy*.
It’s the capitalist perversion which is at the root of the problem… the freedom to and the need to create and hold wealth and power. This is not compatible with democracy and perverts it in time.
Mine is big enough for me and mine and I knew it would come to this.
I am going to do what I have to do and not in this country. We repair our own boat as much as we can and have been doing it for 25 years. When mechanical *things* fail.. we are forced to do without them… but we can make our own electricity and drinking water.
This is deepest wisdom, demi, the reflection of a soul which is free and responsible, it is what all healthy human beings seek and need.
Very well and succinctly said.
We need T-shirts and bumper-stickers that are good for the head.
and the heart …
and the soul.
Inspiration to open the eyes, open the ears and banish inculcated doubts and manipulated fears.
;~DW
Humans tend to want to be led by some charismatic leader with the *answers*. When *right thinking* leaders emerge they are *taken down*. The other side gets it and plays nasty.
Where I live, a bumper sticker that is good for the head is an invitation to have your car ‘keyed’ or accidently hit with a shopping cart at Publix.
Can we charge the Tea Party and Norquist with Usurption of the US Government now?
Can we impeach Benito Obama for Treason now?
The Tea Party hypocritically pulled the plug on grandma.
Nursing homes are getting the brunt of the cuts.
If outing Valerie Plame didn’t elicit a treason charge, what will? Our DOJ isn’t appreciably better now than it was under Bush.
That is true. I’m thinking more of bypassing the corrupted DOJ and Congress.
Off to swim in the great capitalist cesspool.
US KIA Afghanistan: 1,682
US KIA Irak: 4,474
Iraki, Afghan and Pakistani casualties: estimates vary to over 1.5M
US MBS 2011: 26,288 and counting
Democracy
No war but class war
Never. Give. Up.
Be good to yourselves, and all other living things
Namaste
SD,
Have the best day you can, considering.
DIY impeachment! I like it.
Pet the kitties for me and have a good one, SD.
But this is the problem. Mich McConnell is on of the last of the old guard that can do this. There are no democrats and few republicans left that are experienced enough in politics and when these people are gone that will be pretty much it.
If you think the last weeks of Keystone Cops shenanigans is bad, you ain’t seen nothing yet. I expect the progressives in this country to start electing their teabagger equivalents. Leftist idealogs that are just as reticent and intractable as those on the right.
Why do I say this ? Because the nation as a whole has become that divided.
Oh, I’ll trot out a little story I’ve told here before. My mister used to have an old van which had a license plate that read They Lie. Sometimes I would drive it and one time I was at a gas station filling it up and a guy came over to me and asked me why I hate men so much.
Talk about projection. Ha.
And how many will follow your lead, SanderO?
I’ll wager that where ever you may “go” that the “problem” will exist in every port of call, for now, the world, OUR world MUST be conscientiously changed in OUR time … it is OUR responsibility.
There is no real running away, only a coming together is possible.
All else will lead, inevitably, to failure and cascading collapse.
DW
One more time lets vote the Incumbents out.Democrats and Republicans vote all the Incumbents out.
Thank you, DW. if not now, when?
I will not go quietly into despair. Not going to happen. Not on my watch.
The Obama/Holder DoJ is worse, Om Ali, hard as that may be to “believe”.
DW
No argument there. I need to be a little more thoughtful before typing my comments.
They can kill me but they can’t eat me.
Well, I see that a new post is up, so this discussion shall simply have to joined again.
And again.
And again.
DW
Yet.
I suspect as more Dems call for a third party more Lefties will call for revolution. I wonder how the Right is going to handle their mostly Older White base who have kids whose benefits will be cut? Will they just blame Obama? Thats our job!
Or will they blame their GOP politicians? Will they finally Get It?
As a Lefty I expected this from the GOP its one of the reasons why I don’t vote GOP or Obama any more. But can the Right learn is the Question?
If the Right passes this intelligence test then we can expect Rep Ryan and the other GOPers to go back home to all the gun toting GOP crazies waiting for them.
The GOP forgot that in GOP code cutting Welfare meant cutting benefits Dark People get not Whites.
Will the GOPers get mad? Or will they swallow these cuts to their benefits and prove Aristotle right about some people being natural slaves?
Is Strauss right that Elite Rulers should lie to at least some of the masses because they just don’t get it?
If you don’t understand that your benefits will be cut and your happy about this deal your a natural slave and at the bottom of the Social Darwin Pyramid.
Our Ruling Class there is no difference between Dem and GOP besides good cop and bad cop really seems intent on proving that the GOP voters at least are proof that all Men were not created equal and lack the reasoning to make decisions in a Democracy.
Precisely.
Who is afriad to die fighting the good fight … being a human?
Tyrannts fear death, fear dying, and fear all those who are living.
Namaste, SD.
DW
Soylent Green is people!
Maybe you should give daily updates of all the troops who have brain injuries too just a suggestion.
As a Japanese Admiral was supposed to have said after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, “I fear we have awoken a giant and filled him with great resolve.”
“Let it all come down…we’ll pick up the pieces later.” -Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
(..and to add, Obama’s smile, as seen on Yahoo’s lead article this morning, was just plain eerie.)
We have a little less than two years of Obama left. Let him go down. We’ll have to work at picking up the pieces in preparation for the 2015 elections. By 2013 the economy should be in deep depression, and the nation open for something other than the then current Republican presidency. Of course, I understand there may be darker alternatives.
Inspiration for us all. Thank you. I will not go down without a fight. The criminals in DC have opened Pandoras Box. There is no turning back now.
Thanks cbl.
One of the leaders in the Agent Orange fight once said, “They killed me in Viet Nam and I didn’t know it.”
I wish I could get those figures. The military and VA will lie about them.
I read Jane’s diatribe. Glad she’s catching up. I said roughly the same thing in 2009 when the public option went down. I thought the handwriting on the wall was that clear. Not many agreed with me.
Since then I’ve been suggesting that social change, if it is to begin, begins here at FDL. Again no one sees it or wants it. People want to rage against the coming of the night, but they don’t want the responsibility of doing something about it. Even Jane is not of a mood to share, an attitude grounded in good capitalist philosophy. She started this place and doesn’t have to share anything with anyone. As I see it, change, if we manage it, starts with Jane.
The funny part is, if you have a warped sense of humor, that it’s still not too late for 2012 if we get our ducks in order which begins by turning this place into a real community. It’s fun now, but ineffective. For one thing we need an ongoing thread on what we can do to change things (one of the hardest things will be trusting each other sight unseen). If you want a risk-there’s one.
Maybe you should give daily updates of all the troops who have brain injuries too just a suggestion.
http://www.cachevalleydaily.com/news/local/Significant-number-of-troops-have-suffered-traumatic-brain-injuries-118951599.html
My 86 was the best I could find:(
Things, let go the past, it is over …
A new world is dawning.
Not because I say so, but because the old world is dying, these are the acts of failure, of desperation … “they” have lost it.
The future is ours … beginning yesterday.
Carpe Diem!!! But consider tommorow; as today becomes tommorow so do our most steadfast and human dreams become realized …
Do not look to others for your initial inspiration, your own words, things, over the years have shown the rest of us the nature and depth of your soul and your passion/compassion.
Lead on!
DW
JHFC, with all the stuff goin’ on in this country and your priority is still turning the Lake into ICQ or some other chat room.
I have a brother-in-law who says the same thing, SD.
One of the wisest most thoughtdful humans it has ever been my privilege to know.
DW
http://epinews.com/Newswire/2011/03/05/troops-military-brain-injuries-amputations-up-in-2010-army-reports-tbi-amputations-soldiers/
Spoke too soon but these numbers as they admit are if anything an under count.
Nobody wants change at FDL???
The past is the present and our rallying cry if we don’t stick up for the little guy who will?
We are all the little guy now.
You prove my point. For one thing you have no alternatives. For another a focused chat room can be a powerful thing. One problem with any on line discussion is that we are soon overwhelmed with text. Perhaps we can solve that problem by putting our collective heads together.
The choice is simple. You can look for leadership, which for reasons I won’t go into, is the solution most choose or you can decide that somehow we have to come together to move mountains.
Consider what happens to this thread. Eventually it will move into “previous…” to be repeated sometime in the comparatively near future where more or less the same comments will be made. We are spinning our wheels. All I’m saying is we should stop.
Oh? Could you provide names, links, etc. for those on the left who are running in that intractable place you reference?
What sort of change are you talking about? Social change? Sure lots of people want that. Change in the structure of FDL, not so many.
I must get up this minute and go the the “Y” or my increasingly large nether parts are going to grow around this chair.
You’ve been saying the same thing for a number of years. If it’s so effective why isn’t there such a forum as you suggest out there? Anybody could start something like that on the web but you apparently have made no effort to do it yourself, choosing instead to rag on Jane.
Many here want a third Party and FDL to come out for a Third Party even if it means we tank the Dems this election.
Has anyone heard if there is a time window for the vote today? Not that it really matters, but I feel like I am watching some significant history happening.
Exactly. And I might add, this is the real chess game he’s been playing.
OK assuming you are right and I am not sure you are. The issue is who decides? The powers that be or the rank and file. I’m saying it should be the rank and file.
We decide or we leave it would help our case if we could find a candidate who had a Spine right now nobody in the House or Senate qualifies.
You are right. I have been at this a while. I may be wrong, but I don’t think people are as antagonistic as they were. Continued failure makes one contemplate the previously unthinkable. If I could get one partner (you interested?) I’d try it, but I am pessimistic about success. If I get no takers here where there are more progressives or liberals per square inch than anywhere in the world, I don’t see cyberspace as more fertile.
I hold that there is much truth in what you are saying.
Nonetheless, until sufficent wheel-spinning has ocurred, getting “unstuck” may not yet have been grasped as something which will require a different approach.
I don’t think it a snow job we’re stuck in so much as a deeply muddied and understandable hope or perspective that simple reason might prevail.
When, in fact, those whom this site has tried to reason with, the power and wealth mongers, have no interest in reason, humanity, justice, or understanding.
Full recognition is beginning to dawn.
However, the shock of the meaning of that perception still lingers on, ekunin.
That is where our collective patience and respect must come into play.
Gently goes it, at this critical time …
DW
Here I agree with Jane. If you’re looking for some office holder to stand up and be counted, I believe you will be disappointed. I also don’t understand what you mean by “We decide”.
“The GOP forgot that in GOP code cutting Welfare meant cutting benefits Dark People get not Whites.
Will the GOPers get mad? Or will they swallow these cuts to their benefits and prove Aristotle right about some people being natural slaves?”
Just so you’ll know, we right-wing extremists tend to think that depending on the government for our most basic needs of food, shelter, and medical care IS slavery. It’s the squishy, RINO side of the GOP that clamors to keep benefits. The one exception (so far) is social security, which they were told was their own money; many still cling to belief that they can ever get that stolen money back. With every year that passes, another voter realizes he’s on his own for his retirement, and he gets used to telling the welfare state to shove it.
Our own version of the “Crystal Nacht”, Demi?
History smistory, we witness the end of any pretense of democracy, any semblance of virtue, any notion of principle.
History has been smashed to her knees, the “Official” version is already being spun.
But a far more important thing … now is begun.
DW
Dog eat dog, is it, brave texan99?
What of community?
DW
When I was in college I used to run after class with a good friend who was a pacifist. I asked him one day what he would do if someone hit him on the cheek. He said he would turn the other cheek. So I hit him lightly on one cheek. He turned the cheek and I hit him lightly on the other. He took a poke at me. I’m sorry now. It was not a friendly thing to do. Still my point was well taken. Some people don’t get gentle.
Ah, but you have learned, and are, now, far more gentle, are you not, ekunin?
;~DW
If the GOP thinks its their own money will they blame the GOP for stealing it? We Lefties are blaming Obama lets see what happens this is an intelligence test.
We decide what FDL does and so far we seem to heading toward a third party we just need a candidate. Many here won’t vote for any Dem who votes to cut SS or Medicare, many here won’t vote for Obama.
Assuming we find a candidate then FDL has a choice to make some will stay some will leave no matter what the choice is.
“Dog eat dog, is it, brave texan99? What of community?”
Dog-eat-dog is a better description of the party of Compassionate Confiscation than of the one that favors families and communities who take care of each other voluntarily. Charity is a fine thing when it’s funded out of one’s own pocket and an ugly one when it’s financed with stolen money.
The question remains…How does FDL choose?
‘Tis not charity, I speak of, texan, but common plight.
Our common need of highways, bridges, education and well-being, which requires that we all, together, take care of each other and the planet upon which we live. (If you are a hunter, or if you fish, I’m rather certain you know about this.)
Just so you know, it is not “governmnet” which is the problem, but “politics” premised upon money and coercion.
Do you not imagine that there are many ways in which our interests, yours and mine, not only converge, but are the same?
DW
How do the COMMENTERS choose?
Let us, then, examine the choices, shall we?
With that question, ekunin, I ask what you propose @ 105.
You know that I am honestly interested, as we’ve spoken upon this, a bit, before, and I value your understanding and philosophy of psychology, as much of it as you have previously shared with me.
Part of the change now upon us is the question of “focus” … an issue both of us have raised more than once.
DW
And also, ekunin, what do those who gather here choose to spend TIME “on” pondering as well as EFFORT upon achieving?
We have the opportunity of time, right here, and right now, you and I, to discuss these deeper concerns.
I’m here, I’m ready, shall we give it a try?
The thread appears, now, to be ours to do with it as we will.
Ready to focus?
To share, to learn, to consider, together?
DW
Good morning, BT. Gawd I hate the smell of surrender in the morning – it’s nauseating.
A pup last week said it best: After the GOP fucks you over, they piss on you; after the Dems fuck you over, they leave a chocolate mint on your pillow.
Let me share a concern of mine.
Too often a thread dies, when another is put up, ending discussion not merely too soon but before it even has gained sufficient momentum to serve as more than a platform to react to the outrages of the day, to record merely frustration, day after day.
How may we, collectively, get anywhere if we are all just engage in driveby cussing and anguish.
For that purpose a “shrieking tree” makes far more sense …
DW
Perhaps … another time?
Some time?
Time ……………………………?
Who has it?
DW
Thank you, Blue Texan, for the place and the time ………..
DW
“Our common need of highways, bridges, education and well-being, . . . it is not “governmnet” which is the problem, but “politics” premised upon money and coercion. . . . Do you not imagine that there are many ways in which our interests, yours and mine, not only converge, but are the same?”
Always with the highways and bridges. If the federal budget were limited to things like highways and bridges we wouldn’t be having this argument. As for education, I see no need for federal involvement and far less need for state involvement than you probably do.
It’s interesting that you think politics depends on money and coercion but government does not. How so?
As for our interests converging, beyond things like our both appreciating highways and bridges, it’s hard to say.
I’m not sure the thread is the right forum. If you want to discuss things drop me a line eekunin at gmail dot com
If you know anyone else interested perhaps we can start a small, informal list serve.
I’m going to assume you’re in TX. Are you satisfied with the curriculum set down by the state school board? Would you prefer each school district set its own curriculum? Each school? Do away with schools and home teach all children?
Sorta like a clique?
You advocate for an open, unmoderated forum but don’t want to discuss it on a public forum?
You find it hard to say if our interests converge beyond highways and bridges, do you, texan?
You are a most sad and unfortunate being.
Does the sunshine not warm you, and the winter winds not chill you?
Do you have no commitment to life beyond your own high upheld nose?
Clearly then, you believe that there is little enough for us to speak about as we’ve little or nothing to share.
I shall, then, waste no more of your own selfish time.
Fare thee well, texan99 … however you may.
Is what you would discuss so very distant from such thoughts as we’ve shared that you cannot explain, here and now, at least the essence, of what you would have us all consider?
Is it too long?
Or too deep?
Ekunin, you shall have my continuing respect, but here, now, I’m offering you my ears, and I deem it appropriate that such thoughts might be publily shared … unless there are things you would rather not be observed by …. someone?
I repect caution, yet “they” know who we are, both of us.
By what means do you suppose, other than letters, and even those are not truly secure, or propose, that any intelligence cannot be spied upon and to the powers of destruction, exposed?
Perhaps I suffer from a lack of imagination?
What say you, ekunin, can you say it out loud, or is it so revolutionary, so potent, that it must be held close?
DW
Ah, the question of trust. I am sure our email is monitored as is this thread. My reason for suggesting an informal listserve is convenience. This thread will vanish into pages of previous entries..but OK what I suggest is no secret.
Assuming we make FDL a more efficient engine for social change, I believe we must form a network based on towns and districts the smallest political subdivisions we have. We need to create ways to reach consensus on line (that will be the neatest trick of the week) One thing to consider is taking identifiers off of posts. Might get us focused on the business at hand.
How we get people to participate in the network requires some discussion. I thought putting the town’s checkbook on line might be interesting, but people don’t want the responsibility of actually governing. If we here at FDL could repopulate Congress, that is pick people, I’m not sure how we’d do. It’s like congress people themselves. My representative, Jim Himes, initially ran as an anti war candidate. Since he’s been in, I believe he’s voted for every military expenditure to come down the pike. In one sense it’s like Obama. It’s one thing to campaign-Change you can believe in- another after election to put your opinion ahead of all the so called experts. Obama may not be as evil as he’s portrayed here. He’s more likely weak, as are most of us.
The point is we need to create something like facebook in that people join to further what they perceive as their interest, but it must be something that draws them in. The idea of petitions and going door to door is so last century. Think in terms of getting 70 million people out all over the country for a peaceful demonstration about something, people who belong to the network.
As for computing power, x-boxes can do it, but I do not have the technical understanding for any of it. We have to create linked communities. Once we do that we can move on to other things. That also why I think making FDL a community is an important first step.
BTW something like what I mean is the “patch” group visit http://www/fairfieldpatch.com this is a site for Fairfield CT, but they are establishing patches all over. The patches can contain anything like real estate without brokers. Local Craig’s lists whatever. Fairfield patch, like FDL, is run top down. It cannot be changed by participants only by proprietors.
“Does the sunshine not warm you, and the winter winds not chill you?”
Are those funded by the federal government, too?
Who’s gonna pay for it?
“Are you satisfied with the curriculum set down by the state school board? Would you prefer each school district set its own curriculum? Each school? Do away with schools and home teach all children?”
Satisfied with the state’s curriculum? Of course not. It sets an absurdly low bar. I would never expect my children to get a decent education from the public schools as currently constituted. Would I let every school set its own curriculum? Sure, as long as parents had the right to take their tax dollars to another school, public or private, that offered a better curriculum. As for home schooling, it’s fine for anyone who can pull it off. It works great for everyone I know who home-schools: a heck of a lot better than the public schools. For everyone else, I’d like vouchers.
DW – You’re right, I don’t have to stop in the middle of the war to sing along, falsely.
I’m going to work in the garden and then take my son to my mom’s. She’s got chores for us.
And, I agree with you that after threads can be a great place to have a deeper conversation. I can’t this morning, but, I surely do remember one wonderful long conversation we had hear, I think it was after a PUAC. If I remember correctly, it was you and Southern Dragon and me. That’s when if struck me that you two were “really something special”.
Big Heart Hugs to you for your unfailing faith in our potential humanity.
Communities of mutual interest?
Yes.
“Governing” has gotten a bad name.
Call it mutual resposibility … on a revolving “plan”, where serving the community is not about ego or access to power and wealth, but an obligation which arises simply from being a member of community.
Communities linked both socially and economically, firmly and resonsibly, tied to the resources available regionally.
FDL does, and must continue to, serve not merely as example, but as best-practice example …
SD queries, “Who’s gonna pay for it?”
We do, we are already paying for our own destruction, we have, as human society (society: understood as simply how individual members of a community treat other individual members of that community), the “currency”, the means, to “afford” our own protection and betterment, not as certain rugged individualists would have it, to claw our ways to “security” or “exceptionalism”, but to the possibility of becoming, individually and collectively, what our times and or world require us to be.
There is not one “way” forward, but there are and must be certain thing which we all may agree upon as important.
SD mentions the under pinnings of that reality every single day: “Be good to yourselves and all other living things.”
DW
If the Short Rides of the country have their way the internet could be shut down on a moments notice. Petitions and face to face encounters won’t seem so unattractive or inefficient then.
My coffee grinder uses 17th century technology and functions better than any 21st century gadget made for the same purpose.
Thank you, demi … and right back at you.
I remember and cherish the memory of that day.
As SD would say (and I concur) …
Namaste.
;~DW
Gandhi said there are many paths to God.
Which suggests that meeting, face to face, the old-fashioned way, is something that would benifit us all … and a day I look forward to, in your case especially, with true anticpation and genuine pleasure.
The “crossing” of those paths are the nexus of collective possibility.
Namaste.
I’m a firm believer in meeting and talking with people, face to face. Nothing can totally replace that dynamic.
Now that’s an encounter I could thoroughly enjoy.
I can haz SD and DW face to face too?
I’m thinking about that FDL commune idea you, I and others talked about some years ago.
I read a wonderful article many years ago, and I don’t even remember who wrote it, but his belief was that the internet can be a useful tool, especially for those who are infirm and can’t get out, but to be away for people to meet virtually, but then use that as a jumping off point and then take it to a physical level. Kind of difficult with the three of us living so far apart. But, I say Never Say Never.
Jesus Christ. I’m amazed at Jane’s paragraph. God love her, but that’s some nonsense.
From the perspective of Barack Obama, there was no failure. There was success. When the hell are liberals going to realize that Obama doesn’t share their ideological goals?
Mitch MCConnell ran circles around NO ONE. Victory is easy when you DON’T HAVE AN OPPONENT. As Greenwald said this morning, and I have said millions of times, there were about 50 escape hatches that Obama could have used to avoid this crisis, and he chose NOT TO. McConnell himself even offered to GIVE Obama the ability to raise the debt ceiling himself. Obama declined.
Barack Obama and the democrats are NOT serial losers, Jane. The serial losers are people like YOU who REFUSE to learn the simple fucking lesson that Obama and the Dems aren’t trying to WIN for YOU. They are trying to WIN for their plutocrat owners. And they have!
So tired of this!
ROFLMAO
Oh, my!
You come here often, roxster?
You got some room on that floor, SD?
707LOL707LOL ….
And. I’ll raise ya, on that, three times, demi.
My … my ….oh, my … sufferin’ dog hairs!!!
Cain’t put nuthin’ over on that roxster, nosiree, we’s talkin’ someone quick as bootstrap molasses …
;~DW
You are right. If the internet were shut down we look fascism square in the face. That will be the time for blood in the streets, but I don’t think the US of A is in that place anymore. In the meantime, let’s not get ahead of ourselves. The internet hasn’t been shut down. As for coffee grinders, I doubt you are right. Perhaps for course coffee, but that’s about it. For better or worse, technology is here and will get more powerful. We have only to try to use it.
I am not sure you are right. People decide for all sorts of reasons. I don’t know if you’ve had legislative experience. I sat ten years on my town’s board of finance. We decided the Board of Ed spent too much money too fast so it was decided the local democrats who controlled things, would put a member of the board of finance on the board of Ed to act as a check. I knew the fellow chosen for the task well and liked him. In no time at all he was talking like the most rabid Bd of Ed member. Nothing dishonest. You deal with PHDs who tell you this or that is essential and you lose your nerve. Everyone wants quality education. You don’t want to be responsible for costing your town’s children anything.
The bureaucrats are ruthless in that they pull any trick in the book to make opponents look bad. It is easier to get along by going along. The townspeople don’t appreciate your efforts anyhow. Difficult to see how we bring order to this mess. I place my hope on transparency and an attempt to make the community’s desires known. It might be easier for a politician if he knows the community or a substantial portion of it is behind him. Transparency is by no means a sure solution anymore than it is a sure thing the human species will survive in spite of itself.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/july-heat-in-washington-was-unprecedented/2011/07/29/gIQA0uTzlI_print.html
perish or transform
look beyond:
transference (fear, pain passed onto you)
ego defense (arrogance)
pacification (abused–must hurt you; but, ready to be
understood, forgiven, loved)
scapegoating (demonize. associate foes w the demonized;
a way to make a living and / or any / all the above–
quite sociopathic in any form)
now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B4Wtdjt7mw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYSXbB1IM6A&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhmmHio7hLY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFtdnNUCgKA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN9n1bAahg4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKhmFSV-XB0
don’t know really–not a freak, your kids should be
inspired and ready to grow (scientifically, morally,
events (history-) wise)
Lost from the above:
David Wu’s case:
said false Klingons:
means “informationally” aware of fraud scapegoaters
given to womanizing accused
I’m a guy. If you had a loving mother you will be
ready for affection.
DSK: a little off base? self-absorption?
but also scapegoated in any event
I believe ideally Wu and Adams should be our leaders.
In the most practical sense, Dennis Kucinich is the most logical
nominee for President from the Democratic Party for 2012.
You miss my point, which is not to rely solely on the technology of the day. If you find yourself with a broken down car and your cell phone battery dead out in the middle of nowhere your feet will have to suffice.
I notice you ignored my question about who’s going to pay for your activist network. All that technology costs money and the people who maintain it have to be paid as well.
Thanks for teaching me how to do this. :)
Keep your battery charged and your car in decent shape. No guarantees. May find yourself in the middle of nowhere where the cell phone battery is OK but no cell phone service within miles.
As for funding. We’re not there yet. Open source computer coding might be a good model. People volunteer. I prefer that. If not we can always ask George Soros. I do not suggest I have all the answers or any answers. I only know we have to start talking about these things.