Rewarding the Republicans for their hostage-taking — aside from being bad policy — is disastrous politics. By caving to a bunch of extremely unpopular ideologues, Obama looks weak and feckless, not like “the adult in the room.”
Here’s the thing: when children throw temper tantrums, grown-ups put them in timeout — they don’t appease them with candy.
The President seems to hold Ronald Reagan in esteem, but it’s very difficult to imagine Reagan allowing a Democratic House to hold the government hostage for months on end and threaten to send the US economy over a cliff. I’m not saying I admire Reagan for firing the air traffic controllers, or that it was the right thing to do, but he acted decisively and had public opinion on his side. And in doing so, he advanced an ideological goal of his party.
Bill Clinton, who is on record as saying he’d invoke the 14th, did not cave when Gingrich threw his temper tantrum – and the public rewarded him with a second term. He, too, made his stand on ideological grounds.
As with the case of the health care bill and the stimulus, Obama has allowed Congress to dictate the terms — and neither turned out well. Of course, this manufactured debt ceiling crisis is worse, since he’s allowed the opposing party to do so, even though they control only the House. In effect, he’s made the Tea Party caucus of the House the de facto president.
Sometimes leaders have to lead.



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Amen.
And Obama falls back to pragmatism. Were he a leader, of any stripe, he’d long ago realized the GOP had him scoped out and changed tactics and strategy. Expecting him to lead now, such as invoking the 14th Amendment, isn’t realistic. God I hope I’ve misjudged the wimp in the Oval Office.
It’s pretty clear our present President doesn’t WANT TO use the 14th.
You can add ‘w’ to the list of people who would have used it and his VP would have found files on anyone who opposed him and sent them to Gitmo.
For all the hand wringing, those who have been invoking ‘shock doctrine’ have been spot on. The teabaggers are yet another in a succession of figleaves for this president to invoke republican policies.
Starting with leiberman and nelson with health care, to Elizabeth Warren and fin reg, to this sham.
He is becoming a barely lesser evil
May be pragmatism but I call it cowardice.
I completely agree.
“As with the case of the health care bill and the stimulus, Obama has allowed Congress to dictate the terms — and neither turned out well. Of course, this manufactured debt ceiling crisis is worse, since he’s allowed the opposing party to do so, even though they control only the House. In effect, he’s made the Tea Party caucus of the House the de facto president.”
A point that George Will made on ABC This Week, when he said the GOP has already won this fight, because they’re controlling the debate, and will win the policy fight, even though they only control the house of rep.
I’m still asking this question to Obama kool-aid drinkers; do you still think this president’s playing chess while the GOP plays checkers? I’ll keep checking responses to my post to see if I have any takers to this question, seems I haven’t found any yet. I don’t blame you since it seems this president left his spine in his home in Chicago, and failed to bring it to Washington with him. Were I you, I’d keep my head down below the radar as well, given the failures and sellouts by this president.
But if you do still think he’s playing chess, I’d ask you to pay a visit to your psychotherapist, because you’re clearly suffering from some sort of Obama psychosis.
Does anyone think Dubya wouldn’t have used the 14th amendment escape hatch in this situation? His lawyers found a legal justification for torture. Obama lawyers read the constitution and think that clause in the 14th amendment doesn’t mean what it says.
What part of the oath Obama took to “preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the US” does he not understand?
I regret my vote for President for the first time in 47 years of voting.
I will not, under any circumstances vote for this president again!
He is the worst of the worst in my opinion and a complete sellout to the rich and powerful.
W would have used the 14th. So would clinton, Reagan, FDR, LBJ, Truman, etc., etc..
Pierce, Filmore, Buchanan, Hayes, Polk, they wouldn’t have used it.
Many people have deep regrets about their vote for Obama. You’re not the only one out there.
At this point, I regret voting for Al Gore in 2000 and giving the Democratic Party a second chance when Howard Dean ran in 2003-04. The time I spent could have been put to better use, even if I used it to drink beer until I did a chin on the chest.
I voted for Caveman Obama in significant measure owing to two words: “Sarah Palin.”
Sometimes leaders have to lead.
yeah – we need summa those.
Got a perfectly good Capitol Building for ‘em and everything.
Unfortunately, it’s currently occupied by liars, thieves, and contortionists with silly-putty-spines.
I wonder if they’d honor an eviction notice….
Want to know how Obama plans on winning a 2nd term on his abysmal record.
I think his only shot is if the GOP nominates a crazy person, and that’s not a given. Many thought Reagan was a bit crazy and too out there, but he won in a landslide.
They’re going to use that fear card next year. What else do they have?
Or as some have said “we suck less”.
Quite a comedown from “yes, we can!”.
Y’know,as I reflect, perspective is necessary. In the bigger picture, I guess I should be grateful that the flammable natural gas coming out of my kitchen tap in the wake of fracking will emit 1/3 fewer greenhouse gases.
(LOL, yeah, pointless. But that’s how it’s getting to seem.)
You haven’t.
I know I am not alone in this regard, I just expressed my personal feelings because I am so frustrated in all this maneuvering.
The Teabaggers, the House running the show and Mitch McConnell given more punch than the Senate Majority Leader is too much.
I am truly hoping the Dims reject this package in total and rebuke all of their leaders and just let this go to default.
The point, however, is can those same folks [and I'm one of 'em] be scared into voting for Obama in 2012 because of the “terrible alternatives,” and “OMG, what would happen to the Supreme Court”???
As for me, the answer is “no.” NFW I’m voting for that coward again.
Glenn Greenwald banged it out of the park in his column on Salon.com:
“In other words: it makes no difference to us how much we stomp on liberals’ beliefs or how much they squawk, because we’ll just wave around enough pictures of Michele Bachmann and scare them into unconditional submission. That’s the Democratic Party’s core calculation: from “hope” in 2008 to a rank fear-mongering campaign in 2012.”
But don’t you see, simply the debt ceiling getting raised by itself won’t further “The Plan” in regards to “entitlement reform”, which Obama has been hankering for since 3/2009. Kabuki Theater Time!
-stewwartm
Word has it that the progressive caucus will not vote for the deal between McConnell and Zero.
I’m thinkin’ Obama ultimately announces he’s not gonna run again, and Hillary steps up…just a thought considering Bill’s comment about the 14th Amendment.
Are you kidding me? Obama, weak? Not leading?
He’s rigged this to get exactly what he’s said he wanted (soon after he was elected, that is) and lead the economy over the cliff in order to kill the New Deal.
Obama has set this in motion, and set up all the steps to the mother of all excuses to collude with the Republicans in shredding the social safety net.
From his handpicked Social Security shredders on the Cat Food Commission, to the Biden deal to continue the Bush Tax Cuts behind the backs of the Democratic Congress, and every step in between.
Weak? Hah! Obama lied his way into office with the pretty lies he knew would sucker in the Democratic base (and even some Republicans and Independents!)
Once elected, he announced he was after the “entitlements” and nothing he’s done since would save them.
No matter what the Democratic Congress, the Democratic base or any other voter might want, Obama has lead us to this and he won’t be finished until he’s finished shredding what’s left of the middle class.
I’m pretty sure the way this is going, Obama has weakened his chances to be reelected. He is on the verge of splitting his base.
I suspect Rick Perry will announce and has a good chance of getting the GOP nomination. Romney is a Mormon and has Romneycare. Neither of which sits well with the Republican
racistbase. Just what we need another know nothing Texan with swagger in the White House who God talks to. At least he has good hair. This will be the legacy of Barack Obama.As for those who fearmonger about the Supreme Court, you can never tell how a justice will vote 10-20 years down the road.
Nixon appointed Blackum. Ford appointed Stevens. Bush the Elder appointed Sutter. All of them were pretty damn liberal.
Kennedy appointed White. He turned out to be a conservative.
It’s kind of a crapshoot. And a useless argument on the part of the Dems. Who cares about the Supreme Court when you don’t have a job? Or you’re worried about your retirement?
Hey, “barbarians have to be educated. They need to be disciplined…”
BO is toast at this point. THAT more than anything should convince the power brokers of the party that he needs to be pushed aside. Only problem: the D power brokers are part of the problem, and there is a short bench, or no bench, of legit primary challengers.
It would be ironic as hell for Obama to lose to a governor from Texas.
Anyone of those guys can beat Obama, even Bachmann.
I’m inclined to agree with you.
It’ll be Jeb not Perry. Perry has a skeleton in the closet.
Or Petreaus.
Even more ironic, Obama losing to another Bush.
Bachmann is scary. That Palin $9.99 Home Depot particle board stupidity beneath that Charm Schooled glued-on veneer.
i call it cover your ass type position…ah a lawyer does CYA
Yeah..lol
Jeb starting to make some TeeVee rounds lately.
It will be even more ironic that the very people he sold out his base to attract–the mythical swing voters–deserted him in droves because he did nothing about jobs and the economy.
I attempt to make these same points to those who use this as an excuse for supporting Obama.
I’ve been thinking about Jeb for months. He’s way off-the-radar, and (thus) not getting shot full of holes in the current debate. In theory, in can waltz in later, bring together the crazies and the not-quite crazies factions, and then graciously accept the nomination himself. As for a running mate? I wouldn’t count out Bachmann. The crazies love her, and she’s proven she can raise money.
Keep making ‘em, because they’re absolutely valid and based in fact.
The answer to my prayers!!
Crap, as much as I think Hillary would continue Obama’s policies, I might even welcome her over him.
At least there would be some chance to have an option of putting up a “real” [i.e., non-Hillary, non-Obama, non-DLC] candidate.
works for me
he is souless
Oh, I know, but it’s amazing how tightly folks will hold on to their myths.
I vacillate between believing Obama doesn’t have a fucking clue about what he’s doing or he knows exactly what he’s doing. Or he’s just plain gutless and inept.
If one of the 5 conservative justices steps down, the Republicans will threaten to filibuster anything but a reactionary justice. Guess who will cave first?
That was back before the right wing developed a process of recruiting, indoctrination and training right wing judges. I doubt any judge the right will now allow a GOP president to appoint will ever turn out to be a Liberal. Souter was the last one. Now we get dyed in the wool right wing nut jobs like Alito.
all of the above,and add souless
I’m thinking more near-term.
I’d really like it if the little lightbulbs above the Congresspeople’s head went on and they figured out RIGHT NOW that Obama is toast. They could then refuse to support him, refuse to be bullied by his threats of withholding DNC money. Just realize that each of them can either go over the cliff with him, or jump out of that car RIGHT NOW.
Shorter Dem version “We are a piece of shit” but the other choice is slavery or starvation.
Million are hungry now and depend on food stamps or food banks which are running out of food. The deficit plan takes away most of that. It nor conservatism it is crimnality so inhumane. They covered up that we have never recovered from the crash of 2008 while telling us we were coming along swimmingly.
Why on earth would he invoke the 14th amendment (or mint a valuable coin) now when he has the perfect excuse that raising the debt limit all by itself isn’t enough to avoid a downgrade??? S&P gave him that, just in time as the talk of the coin and 14th amendment was beginning to
get in the wayget taken seriously.I had a hard time imagining him using it before, I simply can’t now that he has the excuse that a downgrade will result regardless unless there are CUTS CUTS CUTS.
Of course a real leader would invoke the 14th amendment, announce that his justice department is going to open up an investigation into the possible illegal and politically nefarious activities of S&P for not only it’s latest blatent attempt to enter the political arena but for it’s responsibility in the whole 2008 meltdown.
Oh, and too, my Senate MAJORITY brethren Democrats will be opening up hearings on S&P next week.
If only….
Sounds like the Tea Party and the Progressive Caucus are joining hands to defeat this thing. That’s about 160 votes. Another 60 votes and this thing is toast.
There isn’t going to be a downgrade. It one thing to downgrade Greece. It’s quite another to downgrade the US. Neither Moody’s or S&P want the blame for starting another economic downturn. After they rubber stamped all those CDO’s that blew up the economy, they don’t want the attention that will draw from regulators.
Where are you hearing that? Just saw a tweet saying that D’s have met in Pelosi’s office and have signed onto the deal.
It was on MSNBC about 10 minutes ago. The progressive caucus is holding an emergency meeting at 2PM tomorrow.
Oh, I don’t think there’s going to be a downgrade either. That wasn’t the point.
The point was to provide an excuse for the pols to use to insist that raising the debt limit itself wasn’t good enough. There had to be major cuts in spending too.
You’re right.
That’s why Romney’s going to be the nominee: Of all the viable candidates, he polls the best against Obama by far. Bachmann’s not only not going to be allowed to threaten Romney in the primaries, she may not even be in Congress by this time next year. (Go to http://vennesinfo.blogspot.com/ and http://pettersinfo.blogspot.com/ for more on this.)
CPC…just in the nick of time.
Yes, that’s snark.
IIRC, I read recently (on FDL?) that the CRAs are trying to get subprime “AAA” CDO indemnity written into the deal.
Am I just trippin’ or was that reported?
Got Tweet link?
(Edit: Ah, must be this one: http://twitter.com/#%21/samsteinhp/status/97764852508000257 )
Could be a way to forestall protest by pushing as a done deal that can’t be undone. Time to call, I guess: http://www.house.gov)
I will NEVER vote for anyone who votes for the last nail in the middle class coffin. Primary Obama, he such a POS.
Mr. Obama is as wishy washy a non-leader as Timmeh Geithner, and they both work for the same sponsors. It’s tempting to say Mr. Obama couldn’t avoid this, that he was “out negotiated”, were it not for his wanting this outcome so badly.
Winston Churchill once said of Clement Attlee, his Labour opponent who succeeded him as PM after WWII, that he was a sheep in sheep’s clothing, a pithy cut that ignored his impressive achievements running the government while Churchill managed his alliances and public rhetoric. Mr. Obama is a hybrid. From the perspective of progressives and middle and working class Americans, he’s a wolf in wolf’s clothing. From the perspective of the MOTU, he’s one more hired hand whom they smarmily deride for his “progressivism”.
Remember DEMS (Hey, the WH claims they read FDL, mayhaps critters do as well) in Congress::
REMEMBER:
You vote YES to create the commission, you OWN whatever results from it.
Doesn’t matter if you vote later against it’s recommendations. If those recommendations pass with or without your vote, YOU OWN those results.
You vote to create it, you OWN what results from it.
This president never had a spine. I really wish people would have better checked his record in IL before drinking the kool-aid and voting for him to begin with.
Obama is not in the White House to make Democrats happy. Or Republicans. He’s there to keep Wall Street fat and happy. No matter how this plays out, in the end, they are the entity who he feels he needs to please above all else. He doesn’t care how it looks to outsiders, because folks will ultimately vote how the generally always do. If he doesn’t keep Wall Street happy, he’s screwed politically; if not worse.
Even if he ends up a one term president, he’s still the first black president and a cultural icon to many for the rest of his life. And will certainly never have to worry about how to make ends meet, either.
I can’t figger out how to link directly to a tweet, but here is the text of the RT by emptywheel:
Lovely. RT @samsteinhp: breaking: Dem leaders are all in pelosi’s office, i’m told. and everyone has signed off on deal. waiting on Boehner.
Yep, that’s the one…if it’s the sam stein tweet. Thnx.
They’re going to try to push this through without much consideration. Watch for the riders that are going to be added to this. It wouldn’t suprise me if that tax holiday to repatriate all those profits held by corporations overseas is slipped in there.
I’m sorry.
(NOT snark)
I’m genuinely sorry.
Now it’s a breaking news tweet. Announcement and vote tonight.
Reid’s spokesguy is denying what Stein’s tweeted:
Here is the big question,
WHO ARE YOU GOING TO GET TO BUY THE BONDS ISSUED UNDER THE 14TH AMENDMENT?
Bond investors, being very conservative, are NOT going to buy anything that has even a hint of legal controversy.
Meaning, Obama can declare the 14th all he wants, but no one will buy the bonds that will supply the money to fund the programs you want.
So, you will be left in the same situation, but now with an even bigger fight and even more acrimony.
Maybe you don’t understand that the government gets the funds to pay for items that taxes don’t cover by selling bonds to investors.
No investor will put money into something that a court may later declare to be unconstitutional, not matter how good the case or argument in favor.
Just heard a little bird tell me Stein gets his info spoonfed from Obama HQ, which is invested in us foregoing protests if we think it’s a done deal.
Let them know we aren’t resigned to accepting this “grand bargain” — and that we know who to blame for it:
http://www.house.gov
http://www.whitehouse.gov
Even Larry Tribe (who not too long ago was speaking out against using the 14th this way) has said that no court in the land would allow such a lawsuit to happen. At all. But nice try.
It should be obvious by now that Obama is fulfilling a promise he made to Wall Street fat cats during the campaign that he would cut the safety net. In exchange he bagged huge amounts of payoff money.
By keeping his promise he retains his ability to bag even greater amounts of booty during the next election cycle.
More than anything, Obama needed the phony “crisis” to deliver and reward his backers. His excuse of course is that he had no choice given the “crisis”.
Obama has been described as a weak leader. He is anything but. He has shown the determination of an Abraham Lincoln in his assault on Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Weak leader? Not a chance. He’s just on their side and he has delivered without fail.
I have never heard of ‘no court allowing a law suit.’
People said that about the Health Care Act, and yet, not only did they allow it, some decided against it.
There are lots of courts and lots of judges. One somewhere would allow it. That is certain.
But, it doesn’t matter, even the threat of a lawsuit and no one would buy. Anyone that suggests differently just doesn’t know the people that put money into bonds.
It is a nice idea in theory, but in practice, it is not functional in any case.
But, I really laugh at anyone promoting the idea that a court wouldn’t allow a suit on anything. Especially, something this big. It is just laughable.
Courts allow stupid suits all the time. And, again, there is no one “court,” all kinds of people in all kinds of locations can file suit.
I can tell you one that would happen for sure. Any fund putting money in any such bond would be sued by the investors in the fund. Members of Congress would sue. All kinds of people from all kinds of areas would sue and they’d find at least one judge somewhere who would allow it.
I don’t always agree with you, but damn I admire your fire.
You and Jane both make that EverReady Bunny look like he’s taking a nap.
Don’t know how ya’ll manage to keep doing it, but you do keep that fire burning.
Impressive as hell.
I’m picking up the phone now.
EDIT: Oh shit, and it’s dead!!! Dammit. Gotta charge that sucker.
Exactly.
So Wall Street Rating Agencies, corporations hold America hostage? Does anyone know what the intent of not challenging the faith and credit of the US Government in the 14th Amendment was?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
“Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.”
A reconstruction amendment adopted after America’s civil war ending slavery?
Servitude to a master, king, corporation or government controlled by slave owner who challenged the rule of law, or law bought by corporate America via legalized influence peddling is not liberty. Liberty is an illusion…..
Breaking news: US Auto makers agree to 50+ MPG efficiency standards by year 2025! Yup 14 years down the road, in 2025 America will get what it needed in 1975, 36 years ago? A little to little a little to late for US I fear! Compromise worth believing in? Like that Missouri Compromise? Sure……
Amen! And well said.
He’s karl’s pick
I know Section 4 of the 14th gets all the ink, but read Section 5 as well.
Placeholder.
Time to Go Short tomorrow?
bond investors are other central banks
there will be no problem
Now Jentleson is saying Reid’s OK is “pending caucus approval”. Whose caucus, his or Pelosi’s?
In the meantime, let’s hold the alleged progressive Democrats’ feet to the fire:
http://my.firedoglake.com/letsgetitdone/2011/07/31/progressives-in-congress-vote-for-the-president-to-do-it/
???
I know those that put the bulk of the money in bonds – and it is not Wall Street conservatives.
and who would that be?
That has a redo as to car mpg in year 9 – so 14 years from now ???
EU diesel technology is still not visible in the US, and battery developments are not getting funding to get to market.
I hope for the best – but I expect the austerity that is coming will kill research – and if we slow down the push, the EU/Japan/Korea will do so also.
From my link:
For more of what Tribe and Balkin said, go here:
Check the balance sheets of the central banks around the world – those trade imbalances are taken care of this way.
You are using conservative in another type of definition.
I mean conservative in their investments. US bond buyers are not looking for any speculation or risk at all. Even tiny. that is why they buy them, at a lower rate than other possible investments.
Not politically conservative.
Not true. Central banks are not going to invest in them either.
You are missing the point that the attraction of US bonds is the practical total lack of risk.
If there is a question about the legality of the bonds, even tiny, they aren’t going to buy. Most of these buyers are not buying on their own dime. They are buying for banks, pension funds, mutual funds, other countries, etc. They aren’t going to stick their necks out.
At what point do US bonds become “charged-off bad paper”?
/s
Again, you miss the point.
Obama can issue all the bonds he wants. No one is going to buy them until ALL legal questions are settled once and finally.
The courts don’t have to stop him. No one has to stop him from issuing the bonds. The bonds will be worthless paper because no one will buy them. And the legality of them will be challenged.
Here’s an example from another area. If Joe Schmoe a city official gives you a permit to build a room addition, and it is not clear Joe Schmoe has the authority, would you start building? No.
As many experts as you can find saying the 14th is good, you can find a number saying the opposite.
And, for any expert to say there is no entry into a court, strains credibility. Again, lots of courts, lots of people.
You know, the prosecution thought OJ Simpson was for sure going to be convicted. A lawyer’s opinion about the merits or whatever on anything matters little.
I would guess the day the US declares bankruptcy.
The Democrats are the party of wimps and fools. Since all of the jerks in DC think austerity is the solution to the jobs problems, I say vote them all out and replace each and every one of them with someone who can tell the difference between human beings and money.
Actually, I see you are thinking someone will sue to stop Obama from issuing bonds.
Tribe might be right on that. But, it doesn’t matter.
If you are investing in something because it is absolutely without question with near absolutely no risk, are you going to put your money into it if now there is even a small question mark?
The legality of the bonds themselves will be litigated. That would be 100% certain, and there are lots of entry points for that.
THAT is the reason Obama has not embraced this idea. He and the Treasury people know this. In fact, I would imagine some regular bond buyers have told them as much.
BREAKING:
MacDonald’s just announced their short sale acquisition of the U.S. National Parks system.
First up, new menu item, Bald Eagle McNuggets.
In response to cregan @ 96
NO ONE????
Ahhhmmm, how can I put this…..
Bullshit.
On the contrary, I believe they know exactly what they are doing. In the past it worked to point the finger at the other guy. Anyone with one brain cell still firing should understand what is happening.
We are effectively in Chapter 11 right now. And, what does Chapter 11 do for the BK-ee? You get to lay off your obligations on your suppliers (at least partially).
Just ask The Donald.
The “legal questions” just get “priced in,” no?
“EU diesel technology is still not visible in the US, and battery developments are not getting funding to get to market.”
This is the game. No funding, no competition, no choice for Americans. Monopolies in commerce and trade are great for corporate profit, and the shit stick for Americans. Unaware of redo in year 9! Corporate America has had a grand time raping America with the legalized bribery schemes as slave owners where successful in denying humans protection of law, to ensure the slave’s servitude. Yup slaves exploited for energy. Sounds just like Americans today scraping together change to buy gas to get to work, only to get further fucked by politicians in the long run who protect their interests and the interests of the
slaveownercorporations who bribe lawmakers with campaign cash? Protect the slave owners 101!I hope the progressives in the dem caucus kill this thing in the House, and Obama is forced to ‘demand’ (temporarily borrow some balls) a clean bill or use the 14th.
US credit perception and stature as somewhat serious nation already shot.
Agree with Massacio upthread: need some folks who can tell the difference between humans and money. Not holding my breath,
…and deep fried, beer battered double dipped, American testicle. Can’t eat just one!
And as usual cregan is completely wrong; there would be no “Obama” bonds as there are no “Bush” bonds, and in fact cregan misses the point altogether.
Without a method to pay, it is the so-called “Bush Bonds” that the country would be defaulting on!
The 14th method affirms that the validity of the US debt shall not be questioned. What any court would do at worst would say that no further bonds could be sold until Congress took action.
This is not the Republicans’ doing. It’s Obama’s. Had he insisted on a clean bill, he’d have gotten it. But he feels the need to fulfill his 1/16/09 pledge to
cutstrengthen “entitlements.” And he made it safe for the GOP by making this gutting of SS and Medicare a “bipartisan” effort.Corporate Faust dictates humans are expendable reduce cost and increase profit! Money! They all suck as do all slave owning fuckheads……….
What makes you think he would have gotten a clean bill? Even Lawrence O on MSGOP predicted this fiasco on election night 2010. The tealibangelicals, aided by the dems are giving the people who own the country exactly what they promised.
not to be an ignoramus, but vcan someome quickly explain what is going on? i was out most of the afternoon and caught up on baseball. OK. CNN sez reid signed off on a deal. now. it was my feeling that harry was pretty irrelevant but anyway….. when and what goes down now? votes? when?
this amy kremer lady ius kinda an inarticulate clown, in my view.
We capitulated to the cons on the debt ceiling. Creating Catfood II super congress complete with triggers for cutting medicare and all.
Nice republic we had once.
I agree.
Obama is one cold-blooded sonofabitch who had his Grand Dismantling Scheme in mind even before election day 2008. He’s doing what he set out to do.
I didn’t trust him then, and don’t trust him now.
Unfortunately, Obama was just an image created by the media. His only real goal seems to be to capture the center so he can get re-elected and do some more “compromising”. He had no real life experience in leadership or getting results and, obviously no negotiating, mental combat or persuasive skills. He gave lot of speeches in which he wondered why we couldn’t all just get along, but that’s about it. Nevertheless, he was elected to the most powerful office in the world. The results speak for themselves.
Success!!! When will the votes be? Do Reid & Boner have the votes to make all this bullshit happen or is that still up in the air?
I don’t know if we’ve ever really had it since I’ve had the ability to vote.
I am done with the dems. There is no possibility I can bring myself to vote for any of them again.
If this whole mess did anything for me it finally liberated me from thinking anything other than our system is hopelessly broken and the dems were the ones who finally pulled the trigger. If you would have told me last year that the dems would be the one to ruin SS and Medicare I wouldn’t have believed it.
We heard via twitter that the vote will be tonight, but it has yet to be confirmed. Edit: It was also reported the dem caucus was hold up in Pelosi’s office. It’s not like we didn’t know it was coming.
Obama will be foreced to invoke the 14th Amendment. This bill can’t pass the House by the deadline. Obama will be FORCED to do the right thing by the house progressives. I really don’t think the house progressives will go along with this piece of shit legislation. And the scenario is in the House progressives’ favor for once in these negotiations. Come Tuesday eve., they will be the last holdout standing, and I think they’re going to flip a big middle finger at Barry, and ORDER him to invoke the 14th amendment, which any president with a BACKBONE would have already done.
Progressive Caucus Co-chair sez…
We’ll see….
is there another party tonight?
Eloquent Empty Suit?
I surely do hope you are right. MSGOP is reporting that Pelosi says the house dems may not pass it.
Compromise we can believe in…
and we have to call their bluff. i hope there is a anti-obama who primarys obama up, but that is not enough. social security, mediare is held hostage to even more cuts–how much worse would it be under bachman? i really have to ask that question.
i’m not voting for obama. I don’t think I would even if I lived in a purple state.
We need movements to bring pressure. until that nothing will change.
The problem with any analogy to these two past presidents is the simple fact that neither faced, a hopelessly insolvent banking system.
We are reduced now to but one option: Glass-Steagall or DIE
Amen to all that!