Democrats in both Houses, and a former president, say it’s so: “XIV/4 or Bust!” To prevent catastrophic cuts to current spending, a double-dip Obama recession, spectacular losses to America’s wealth, a huge spike in unemployment, a massive contraction of the US economy, to say nothing of the creation of a SuperCongress that overrides constitutional procedures and rules — the president must use a clear and long-available constitutional provision. Section 4 of the XIVth Amendment begins:
Section 4.
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.
And since Obama seems disinclined to exercise his constitutional responsibility, we must ‘make him do it.’
There is now a deal, and Speaker Boehner needs Democratic votes to pass it because of his unruly and recalcitrant TeaParty membership, members of the Progressive Caucus must stop the deal. By stopping the deal at the last minute, the House Progressive Caucus forces President Obama to use his constitutional authority to ignore an illegal law that questions America’s public debt: the debt ceiling.
The consequences — passing this planetarily catastrophic deal that submits the presidency to the will of the TeaParty, discards democracy, and overthrows the security of the modern social state — are too grave to act any other way.
Leaders of the Progressive Caucus won’t back the deal and want the President to use the constitutional option.
Raul Grijalva (D-AZ), co-head of the House Progressive Caucus:
Representative Raul Grijalva, who heads a group of liberal Democrats in the House of Representatives, said on Sunday that he would not back an emerging debt-ceiling deal crafted by Republican and Democratic leaders.
“This deal trades peoples’ livelihoods for the votes of a few unappeasable right-wing radicals, and I will not support it,” Grijalva said in a statement. Grijalva heads the 74-member Congressional Progressive Caucus.
Co-head of the Progressive Caucus Keith Ellison (D-MN) sees only two ways forward, either a clean deal or the president raising the debt ceiling by using the “constitutional option:”
The other thing, the 14th Amendment, I believe, authorizes the president to raise the debt ceiling, of course, I think he’ll draw some legal challenges, but so be it. If they — I think at the end of the day we swear an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States, the 14th Amendment says the debt ceiling should not be questioned. I think the president has authority to raise it and move forward that way. I prefer to have the legislative body to operate and function, but if push comes to shove, I think that he needs to just invoke that Constitutional option.
The Congressional Black Caucus wants President Obama to exercise his constitutional duty to avoid default:
In a letter to the president, the lawmakers argue that he has “both the authority and a moral obligation” to invoke the Constitution’s 14th Amendment “to avoid an economic catastrophe of historic proportions.”
“We must not allow a political deadlock to cause the United States to default for the first time in our history,” the CBC members wrote. “Now that Congress has borrowed money and incurred debt, we cannot – as a nation and under our Constitution – walk away.”
Additionally, Caucus Chairman Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (D-MO) called tonight’s deal as it was emerging “a sugar-coated Satan sandwich” and a “shady bill.”
Leaders of the Democratic Party want the president to use XIV/4.
Bill Clinton, the immediately preceding Democratic president and one who served two full terms despite impeachment:
“I think the Constitution is clear and I think this idea that the Congress gets to vote twice on whether to pay for [expenditures] it has appropriated is crazy,” Clinton said.
House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer (D-MD)
“It’s arguably his power to do so,” Hoyer told CNBC’s sister network MSNBC in an interview late on Thursday night.
“Very frankly, if it came down to his looking default in the eye on Tuesday or taking this action, as President Clinton said, better to take the action and find out later that perhaps he went beyond his authority but at least protect the credibility of the United States of America,” he said.
House Assistant Democratic Leader James Clyburn (D-SC):
“If the president were to get a bill that he finds objectionable—something that extends this thing for three days or 30 days or even six months—I do believe we’ll be postponing the inevitable, that we will find ourselves right back in this quagmire down the road,” Clyburn said Wednesday on MSNBC’s Andrea Mitchell Reports. “So I believe that if he were to get a bill like that, he ought to sit right alongside the veto message an executive order. And he should take the pen that he uses to veto that legislation to sign an executive order doing this under the 14th Amendment.”
UPDATE: House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi is not keeping silent. She may have freed her caucus from being whipped; does this mean it’s all on Boehner to get votes for this deal? And does that mean Boehner has the votes he needs?
“We all may not be able to support it,” she said. “And maybe none of us will be able to support it.”
Another Democratic leader, this one in the Senate, also thinks the XIVth amendment should play a role:
Sen. Patty Murray (D-Wash.), head of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, said that the constitutional solution puts the question in its proper context — that the debate is over paying past debts, not over future spending.
“The way everybody talks about this is that we need to raise the debt ceiling. What we’re really saying is, ‘We have to pay our bills,’” Murray said. The 14th Amendment approach is “fascinating,” she added.
Other Democratic Senators want the President Obama to exercise his constitutional duty:
Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA):
“If the Congress through inaction, through inaction or action, tries to destroy or alter those obligations I believe it is incumbent on the chief executive to exercise his authority to make sure the full faith and credit of the United States is not jeopardized,” Iowa’s Tom Harkin said. “The president should use his authority to do so.”
Barbara Boxer (D-CA):
“We have to pledge allegiance to the flag, not to Grover Norquist. We have to do what is right for the country. And I pray and I hope that we do. And I will say this, if we fail this, I hope the president will invoke the 14th amendment,” Senator Barbara Boxer, D-Calif. said later.
At this point, the deal can fail. 74 Progressive House Democrats must vote NO to kill this deal. Then the president must act, as they have urged him to do.
Kill the deal. Fourteen-four or Bust!



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Except as Jane points out, Grijalva voted for it before issuing a sternly worded statement against it.
Wrong amendment! What’s needed is the 25th Amendment section 4…
Teddy!
I agree, but sadly Obama seems committed to making needless and destructive cuts to our social safety net and will not be deterred from doing so.
The Obama presidency, condensed into eight words.
Teddy!
Well, yeah, but that vote didn’t actually matter. Now that things are really serious, I’m sure he’ll lead his caucus to the Rescue America position. Don’t you think? It’s not like he (or they) have ever let us down before, right?
We’ll know a lot more if/when it gets 60 votes in the Senate.
I suspect Pelosi has told Boehner something to the effect of “you own this turkey, get your own people to pass it”. Because you know the Republicans would LOVE this to pass with almost no Republican votes.
A late-enough-in-the-game House vote against this deal wouldn’t give him any option, though. This president have proven, time and again, that he’ll cave. Let’s see the Progressives make him stand up and govern! (when there exists no other possible option)
I know this great bridge in Brooklyn…
EDP!
No don’t be insulting turkeys like that. This is a big old steaming, rancid pile of guano, AKA bat shit.
Why, just tonight, young Luke Russert, Intrepid Young Villager-in-Training, told me he thinks it’ll get between 65 and 70 votes in the Senate! But that more than 75 would be a ‘heavy lift.’
Was not asked to name names, though; not sure his contract requires him to actually report facts.
He has shown he will always cave to Republicans. He seems quite accomplished to standing up to actual Democrats.
Bat shit, as in crazy.
Democrats won’t do shit. They showed their true selves when they extended BushCo’s tax cuts. That was the setup for the spending cuts. Get with the program. Democrats are whores for the rich just like the GOPers.
Why, when I hear Luke Russert’s name, do I invariably think of Mr. Potatohead Jr.?
But he doesn’t need to cave.
He will be showing “Lincolnian leadership in difficult times.” Bet that sells him on it, toot sweet.
Unfortunately Obama is sane. He was hired by the plutocrats to kill the New Deal, he lied his ass off to get into office in order to carry out that task and he is still hard at work on that particular job.
He knows what he is doing, and why.
The 25th amendement doesn’t come into it.
Really?
You think they will abandon their principles?
That seems terribly cynical.
(Sorry, I used up all my snark tags writing the main post. Read it again, Franz.)
It would seem very clear that the circus has been called off. We have had Sunday evening announcement of an agreement, in order to buy another day to cement a deal with no Monday morning Wall Street stock plunge. Tomorrow we will hear about the trillions in domestic spending cuts that have been arranged in order to insure that the plutocracy can get richer by the millisecond for decades to come even if this is basically an upwards wealth transfer scheme. This situation will be set in stone tomorrow.
I can see the headline now: FIRST TIME FOR EVERYTHING!
Feel free to copy/alter/whatever to your tastes the following letter I sent to the ‘Progressive Caucus at progressive@mail.house.gov :
Dear Progressive Caucus;
I write this to you as a registered,’independent’, older voter who has simply
had it with Obama and his policies of ‘compromise’.
I have already called my Senators Boxer and Feinstein to voice my objections to
the last reporting on the legislation and the ‘super congress’.
In order to emphasize my next point I will use capitals: “IF YOU WANT TO BE
RE-ELECTED, CUT OBAMA LOOSE; HE WILL DO NOTHING BUT BRING THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY DEFEAT COME 2012 !!
He HAS the legal authority to order Geithener to mint platinum coins to cover
the deficit and the 14th Amendment is another alternative available though
not as on solid legal grounds. BUT if Bush can get lawyers to give him legal
opinions justifying torture, why can’t Obama get lawyers to give him
justification for using the 14th?
People DO remember that Obama turned down a clean bill to raise the debt
ceiling. People DO remember he was in favor of extending the Bush tax cuts
while the Dem’s were still the majority in Congress. People DO remember his
killing of the healthcare public option. People DO remember his killing of
the legislation to let Medicare negotiate drug prices. AND people do remember his
2009 statement about reducing ‘entitlements’, which Social Security is not.
I could go on and on but the simple fact is Obama is DESTROYING Democratic
Party’s legacy of the past 70 + years and unless ALL of you stand up against his
efforts,he will succeed.
Put the onus for raising the debt limit back on him, put the public ahead of his
re-election concerns(and find another candidate), and for once, refuse to shoot yourselves in the foot.
Because if you don’t, your re-election chances will be significantly narrowed.
Name,address,etc.
–And then send it and tomorrow call with the same message.
I was about to ask what the hell you were smoking, Teddy, and could I have some and then I realized it was Late Night…
The question now is one of accountability: specifically, how can the Democratic Party be burned to the ground by its own base to punish it for what it has done, and what it has become?
bmaz makes a good argument against using the 14th (i’m not going to weigh in on that one), but the platinum coin option is far superior to using the 14th amendment. so, why not advocate for that, unless something better comes along?
http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2011/07/14th-amendment-blues.html
http://my.firedoglake.com/letsgetitdone/2011/07/31/progressives-in-congress-vote-for-the-president-to-do-it/
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/30/1000778/-Cut-the-Gordian-Knot-with-the-Platinum-Sword?
I kinda thought Jane needed a laugh after all her hard work this weekend.
yes we can! good one
Because I like my idea better.
And I think a trillion dollar coin wouldn’t fit in the wheelbarrow I’ll need to take my money to the catfood co-op in a year or two.
Of course, just because it’s Late Night doesn’t mean that Teddy isn’t smoking some really prime stuff…
707
okay must go sleepy…but teh nervous
If this thing actually passes, which is far from a sure thing, I am sending Obama this email:
Yeah, as any Dungeons & Dragons veteran will tell you, it’s hard to cash in those platinum pieces. Especially in a silver-based economy.
It might even help.
“planetarily”. like it.
Night! Sleep soundly and peacefully.
A few comments from a teabagger site I read (that I won’t inflict on you):
If he had any sense he would be pushing for this behind the scenes. IF
The DNC needs to worry about a Democratic Party Civil War!
The Democratic party is now up for grabs! thanks to OBAMA
Republicans should be dancing all around the USA, thus the problems for Dems in DC, this Deal does nothing for them.
Dems in DC will be force to defend this deal, in the political world of Gov. Walker, good luck.
New Dems coming to DC, will use this Deal as a weapon against current DC Dems.
the DNC does not like the idea of losing control of the Cash Cow call the Dem party.
Some of the intelligent left see this as an opportunity to take over the Dem Base,thus taking over the DNC. why not! Obama just gave it to you. for LOL
Union membership is going BATSHIT crazy!!!
Liberal Blogs are going BATSHIT CRAZY!!!
The Professional Left is going BATSHIT crazy!!!
Houston we have a major problem!
this anger is not just about caving on the Debt Ceiling, this anger is coming from the fact that OBAMA always caves.
The OBAMA WH thinks they can keep on Fucking People, and FUcking People, and they will not hit back, WRONG. “the fat kid had enough and kick the bully ass on You tube”
Obama is a very, bad politician,
Obama does a lot of desperate stuff, but desperate shit comes with a PRICE!
As if we needed it, proof that the Teabaggers are totally delusional.
never. ever. how could they?
Ah, the sheeplike bleating of the professional idiot…
asswipe (not you, 4cd. the teabagger commenter.)
I think this is why they were so hot to not raise the ceiling at all. They want to freeze spending at current (Depression-level) tax receipts and chop 40% of spending this week. Anything beyond that is considered a total cave.
Teddy – I won’t post a link here, but foxnews has a ‘Follow the Debt Drama Play-by-Play’ item on it’s main page that has the text of Boehner’s speech to his caucus this evening – nobody was opposed to his presentation of ‘the deal’ – so he’s got the votes on his own.
I would like this bill not to pass so Obama will have to pass a clean, debt ceiling item by using the 14 Amendment. Then, later, all the amateur actors can come back and work on a true ‘compromised’ budget.
Yep. Fanatical zealots who are willing to crash the global economy to achieve their narrow and destructive goals.
i would like all of them–535 plus Obama-to eat shit.
See, there are little clues.
It’s not The Professional Left that’s the problem.
The problem is that The Professionals Left.
I would also add that there are a significant number in the Teabagger Caucus who think that a default would be a good thing, a la Andrew Mellon.
I knew I shouldn’t have changed “incalcitrant” to “recalcitrant.”
The Reid bill is almost identical to the boner bill from listening to the tealibangelicals that I’ve seen commenting on it tonight.
That seems only fair, since they seem to want us to do so.
Doesn’t surprise me. Why should we expect that Hapless Harry could come up with his own bad bill?
Right? Fair is fair.
Honest to god. few minutes ago, i walked into the laundry room the exact second my dryer was stopping.
Sure sign of the Zombie Apocalypse.
Oh, that happened last year. Haven’t you looked at Congress lately?
It’s a teabagger plot, I tell you!
Only with contempt.
S&P futures seem to have stabilized at +16. No more votes tonight. We’ll see what happens in the morning. Nikkei up 1.8%.
EDIT: gold down $15.
That happened to me once, but I forgot what day.
I also like going to the laundromat and taking the clothes out of the dryer that stops the soonest regardless of whether it’s mine.
Okay, I’m outta here. Tune in tomorrow for further betrayals of the American voting public. Peace out, y’all!
LOL. Guys, I didn’t know that what happened in the laundry room was so involved. I was just pating myself on the back for my uncanny timing, is all.
well, the people in this apartment aren’t very well dressed. i might do it if i thought it was a step up for me. but, we’re at about the same place. so it would be a wash. hahahahahahahahaha. geddit? laundry? wash? hahahahahahahaha
x2
laughing at your own jokes is pretty bogus isn’t it?
Time for me to toddle off. It has been a bit of a rough weekend. Between this, almost drowning myself while fishing yesterday (let’s just say the rivers here are still really high and fast right now), and getting smacked up side the head with a piece of wood hard enough to seriously ring my chimes today (a freak accident), I think I just want to crawl under the covers.
jeez, i’d like to have gotten into some sweats and a t-shirt while they were still toasty (hey i like toasty, even though it is like 80 degrees outside). too many dishes washing. shit.
wow. glad to hear you’re ok. but, yeah. sounds like getting under the covers might be a good idea. night
Nice spin. But Nancy will ensure that Dems cave “for the sake of the Presidency”. They always do. What Nancy would’ve said were she not going to deliver the necessary votes (if ANY are needed, since Rethugs have GOT to be beside themselves with how they rolled President Pushover)–”This is complete and utter bullshit and my people will not vote for it!” That’s what she should have said. She didn’t. She’ll deliver the votes.
Let’s see…it looks like Obama is going to get every Gooper vote in the House and Senate – so all he needs is Reid, Lieberman, Durbin and maybe a few others – and he’ll have the bi-partisan solution that he so desperately wanted!
Your humor, it is dry.
May I suggest a useful tool for your Rep & Senators? How to send a fax for free. A worthy reference bookmark as email is automated and letters can come with problems.
Take care of yourself, there, good buddy.
Wait, what?
You’re looking for nuance from Our Lady of Pacific Heights?
You do know about her table, and what wasn’t on it in 2006, right after the election, right?
Can someone who has the power please leave this post on the front page for a while, and don’t let it scroll too far down? It’s extremely important
Teddy, does anyone have the power to keep your post frontpaged, and at the top for a while? Like, say, the next couple days? I mean, this is so important, and it’s basically our last chance.
Thanks for posting.
And don’t you mean “nice” “spin” ?
I mean, you don’t really think it’s nice, right. Got that.
But you don’t really think it’s spin, do you?
When fear and despair are found,
The snark will abound.
Hattip TeddyP . . .
Rough few days . . . more to come.
Tween Mary Poppins n this diary, a grim lipped wry smile escaped to my lips.
Dawg help us all, to help each other . . . no one else is going to.
LeSigh.
I appreciate the compliment, I really do, but it seems like this one needs to sink beneath the waves as quickly as humanly possible. I’m sure someone else will have a great idea for Late Late Night.
Better idea than this post was, that’s for sure.
This is primo rhetoric. Hats off to Rep. Cleaver.
And to President Obama: find your spine. Enlist the help of the FBI if necessary; I hear they’re good at looking for things.
Sold Me Down the River – The Alarm
good one.
great rhetoric–when they don’t care about his vote. if Obama wanted his vote? either no rhetoric or a pathetic statement and obama would have his vote. jane made this point earlier and sasked trhe question: is it rhetoric or do they [the progressive causus] mean it?
Just checking in from a huge day at FDL. My poor serfer brain is doing a nasty full plow into the wet sands.
Can we just have a Fuck thread?
At least on repub senator says he will filibuster the bill.
good. who is this helpful fuckwit?
Fuck them all, Save OurSelves.
I forgot to say Thank You,Teddy! Your song choice is fuckin’ rocking for me right now. Literally.
Oops, that was radiofreewill. Sold Me Down The River. I needed that song tonight.
Just give me the truth.
thanks, Larue.
keep safe. the road’s gettin rougher, that’s fer sure.
FUCK YEAH
Have they decided who tomorrow’s Designated Filibusterer is yet?
Jesse Jackson would be proud.
ok. never mind about the country, SS, medicare, medicaid and all that boring stuff. who needs good policy when there’s snark?
It’s LATE NIGHT.
Later now.
jeez
Ya know, folks… it all boils down to intent… what’s in the heart… words utterly fail… whereas it’s what’s in the soul of a person that molds the actions. corporations have no soul… and greed shadows the spirit of man. Please forgive my ramblings… sweet dreams, all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeuoXfKXhOs
Amazing how the mere mention of coin seigniorage turns everyone into a comedian.
Thanks for the link to the bmaz article — a good one.
Another key argument against invoking XIV/4 is the question whether investors would feel that bonds sold under such conditions are a secure investment?
Wingnuts from all over the political spectrum would all use it as an excuse to stop paying federal taxes.
Obama will do what Wall Street tells him.
If he says the bonds are good, Wall Street will have told him that.
Nobody in national media believes the progressive caucus has any moral fibre,and it certainly has no credibility .That satan sandwich guy oozed with weakness and fear while dishing out hot rhetoric for the folks back home.. I agree with Jane.,primary any faux progressive who caves for the party at the expense of the people,e.g.,the public option. Purge these enablers,and if no one remains,then we never had any leaders in the first place.
o,
I will be using this letter to send to Claire McCaskill and Russ Carnahan as well as the Progressives. I can not tell you the rage I feel with this betrayal. I turned 57 on Saturday and I am on SSDI. I will do my best to spread the word about this betrayal and help in any way I can to get these traitors out of office. My 2 cents.
My only comment is that Obama doesn’t cave this is what he wanted. He is a Neo-Liberal President. Everything is going to according to plan. Everything else you said is correct. Carry on.
14th Amendment? Authorize spending more borrowed money on wars, corporate giveaways, bailouts for bankers, and suppression of dissent in the USA?
Nobody, except insiders, seem to understand that borrowing increases interest payments. The US can’t make its huge interest payments now. So borrow to pay interest on existing debt is certainly not an answer. Raising the debt limit merely allow the borrowed money to be given away to rich folks and leave working people stuck with the tab. This is nuts. It has been nuts for decades. The only thing that has changed is that the nation has reached the breaking point.
Now, that we understand the purpose of the nation borrowing more money. We can talk about the method. Some people are gibbering on about the need for the president to raise the debt limit by decree. How about we think about this for a minute. These people are advocating letting the rich folks’ friend in the white house open the doors to the nation treasury for his friends to loot.
Can you say “unitary executive?” This is just what we need — more dictatorial powers to whatever corporatist suck-up happens to have been (s)elected.
Unfortunately, 14th Amd’t comes up short for leveraging the debt ceiling by the WH. Wishful thinking won’t make it fly. Worst case would be an attempt followed by a stern slapdown in the courts. Obama’s seeming reticence seems to have recognized the limitations.
A good piece, see “Bill Clinton’s Specious Debt Ceiling Argument” by
Jeffrey H. Anderson from July 25, 2011 See:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/bill-clinton-s-specious-debt-ceiling-argument_577358.html
Extract:
“. . .The relevant part of the 14th Amendment (1868) — the middle of the three Civil War-era amendments written (principally) to secure the rights of the freedmen — says, “The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law…shall not be questioned.” As the recent debates in Washington have shown, no one is questioning it. It then reads, “But neither the United States nor any State” shall pay the Confederacy’s debts, nor pay compensation for anyone’s slaves having escaped or having been emancipated. Finally, in the next section, it reads, “The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.”
“. . .It is hard to imagine how this language could conceivably be read as empowering the president to raise the debt ceiling unilaterally. It says nothing of the president. It stipulates that Congress is empowered to enforce the amendment’s provisions. And it in no way changes the fact that the president is not vested with the power of the purse.
“. . .In Federalist #58, James Madison writes, “The House of Representatives cannot only refuse, but they alone can propose, the supplies requisite for the support of government. They, in a word, hold the purse — that powerful instrument by which we behold, in the history of the British Constitution, an infant and humble representation of the people gradually enlarging the sphere of its activity and importance, and finally reducing, as far as it seems to have wished, all the overgrown prerogatives of the other branches of the government. This power over the purse may, in fact, be regarded as the most complete and effectual weapon with which any constitution can arm the immediate representatives of the people, for obtaining a redress of every grievance, and for carrying into effect every just and salutary measure.”. . .”
and the 2d amendment doesn’t really say that everyone has the right to own guns.
you notice a whole lot of argument stemming from pulling a few useful words out of context w/regard to the 2d?
Why do they even have something they call a progressive caucus? Is it just to embarrass themselves. Or maybe it has to do with keeping the hippies on the reservation.