The legislative and executive branches will continue to get paid, and get their health care.

“A nation’s greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members.” ~ Mahatma Ghandi
I would say we as a society, nation, and culture have failed.

The IMF thinks that imposing this kind of austerity is a mistake for the US.
So of course the conservatives are going for it.

To the GOP, that sentiment extends no further than to fertilized ova.

Beyond the problems you’ve outlined so movingly, there are a host of other pressures on the food banks.

They used to get a healthy amount of donations because of waste, overstocks and food that was mislabeled but otherwise fine. Streamlined manufacturing processes in the last 15 years have eliminated much of that.

A surprising and distressing by-product of the Bush tax cuts is that tax breaks for in-kind charitable donations are no longer as attractive to the big food processors. It’s more profitable to sell off excess inventory to second-tier supermarket chains (such as Big Lots here in my area.)

Budget pressures are making it much more difficult for the food stamp program (now called SNAP – Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program) to meet growing demand now when it’s needed most.

But hey, it’s worth it, because the Koch Brothers are doing fine, right?

Glad you mentioned the Pell Grants being cut. All you ever hear about are those greedy old people and greedy so-called “poor” people.

{assuming that didn’t need a snark tag}

Check this out.

Have you any sense, Peterr, of how, or even whether, religious leaders are reacting to what is occuring?

Are Pastors, Ministers, and Priests encouraging their congregations to open their hearts and their minds to the plight of the “least amongst us”?

As members of a self-professed “Christian” nation, do religious leaders seek to remind and, by example, to lead their flocks into the fields of need and despair, not as acts of charity but as agents of change?

I know these are tough questions, and yet, do they not go to the heart of committed Christian conscience?

Is this not the time for sermons mentioning another sermon delivered on top of a mountain?

Is this not the time for Christians, in all walks of life, to affirm the fundamental teachings of Christ, not in their words, but in their daily deeds and associations, and through their collective agencies of influence and witness?

How shall we know them?

I ask this as an old and committed atheist who counts among his dearest friends, several deeply committed Christians who have dedicated their lives and energies to actions which uplift and encourage the spiritual perspective of life, yet who view the basics of food and shelter as necessary to any opportunity and all possibility … but most especially, to the essence of life.

DW

That’s disturbing but (sadly) not surprising.

Another yellow flag on our race to the bottom.

Probably because if the US collapses, so does the IMF. Along with the rest of the world.

It’s quite clear from Jane’s liveblog of Senate proceedigs last night that the Democrats in Congress are just as much to blame for this disaster as the GOP. So I hope this one phrase in your post was just meant as an aside:

When even the Chamber of Commerce is telling Congress to worry about the economy, you know that the GOP has gone way off the deep end.

The White House and Democrats in Congress have quaffed greedily at the austerity Kool-Aid flagon, as proved by Nancy Pelosi’s disgraceful written statement issued Monday claiming that our country is now in an “era of austerity.” Most of Congress is about to kill the U.S. economy by making deep cuts to the deficit at exactly the worst possible moment. Because both parties in Congress are stupid about the desperate need for jobs in this country, they are going to shrink federal spending when the country needs aggressive federal spending and direct hiring, as the Congressional Black Caucus is finally demanding.

Obama is the one who put Social Security, Medicare & Medicaid (SSMM) on the chopping block in negotiations with Boehner; the Senate bill that Harry Reid has been stalling all week has the same disgusting Catfood Commission II as Boehner’s bill; the office staff for Chris Van Hollen (Dem ranking member on House Budget Committee and former DCCC head) told me in a phone call ten days ago that Van Hollen would refuse to sign the Progressive Caucus letter opposing chained-CPI for Social Security “because the letter is addressed to leadership and he’s part of leadership.”

The Democrats are just as corrupt and greedy as the GOP; the Democrats are just as willing to make savage austerity cuts to protect their billionaire & millionaire patrons and gigantic transnational corporations as the GOP; all incumbents who kill the U.S. economy for the next two years and who allow Catfood Commission II to destroy the social safety net are going to be voted out of office in 2012.

Bless you, Pastor. Our Congress, both parties, and the President do indeed seem hell bent. Government is failing its citizens. Preach it.

I would love a link to the IMF’s position on this. I did see Christine Lagarde’s interview with Margaret Warner on PBS but the questions were mostly about default not about the negative effect of austerity cuts.

Perhaps, mzchief, there are some in great need of a Shawshank Redemption?

Could it be that those most at risk of losing their souls, are not the poor, the weak, or the infirm … but those upon whom fortune has, seemingly, smiled (with a little “help” from the thumb too often resting above the scales of a blind and mistreated Lady Justice)?

DW

I imagine that most big cities have programs to help feed the hungry but maybe it’s time for smaller places to make plans to assist the needy. Most people in small towns and such probably would not be able to get to a big city for aid. Programs need to be started right now.

“Just” old people, huh? Of course, this moniker runs throughout our society and even winds up here! Just old people, that’s all we are. No even a hint of the wisdom keepers.

But wait! Are there too many just “old people” doing the same thing year after year, justifying the term?

Just old people.

Time to start up Soylent Green.

Hope this doesn’t sound like I’m discounting the depth of your spiritual questions or the size of the huge national groundswell against Congress, but at least a dozen or so members of the clergy got themselves arrested last week for kneeling down in the U.S. Capitol Rotunda and praying that Congress not cause more suffering for the poor.

Bless them! Fractal, for they understand … and have the courage of true conviction.

DW

For those dependent upon Social Security it feels a lot like the kind of betrayal that a spouse feels when out of the blue his or her partner announces “I want a divorce.” Then, no matter whether that announcement is the end of it, something has shattered in the relationship that won’t be rebuilt.

No apology has been forthcoming. No recognition of the problem. The insularity and duplicity of the sham negotiations in Washington D.C. is something we have never faced before, and it is frightening. I think it is an Enron moment gone national.

Your first paragraph, juliana, is the truth of the heart, and the betrayals now contemplated, will neither be forgotten, nor in the consideration of consequence should they ever be forgiven until and unless the behavior does not merely stop, but is condemned as what it is, inhuman, selfish, and destructive of the trust AND compassion necessary to civil and sustainable human society.

DW

If this is a repeat of someone else’s diary or comment, I’m sorry, but it is probably worth repeating anyway. I was led to this by What Really Happened. The article shows more of the insightful leadership of President obumble. If all of his advisor appointments are up to this level, we are doomed at a faster pace than I thought.

The only comment I saw from a religious leader in the press last week was about Rick Warren’s tweet that half of American’s don’t pay taxes and maybe that’s the problem.

And we thought he only hated gays.

Like it was said, “Just old people”. Apologize to us? We are invisible. (Except at the polls. Gotta do something about that.)

Peterr, sorry to harp on the political when your message is at least as much about spiritual & moral obligations, but you left out several grafs from the McClatchy piece you linked to which make very clear that austerity cuts proposed by Democrats would do even more damage to the economy than cuts proposed by the GOP:

While Republicans in the House of Representatives capture headlines by demanding steep spending cuts, the version proposed by Senate Democrats actually would thwart economic growth potentially more, according to two economic research groups.

Macroeconomic Advisers, a leading forecaster, said Thursday that a rewritten plan offered by House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, would shave more than a tenth of a percentage point off of growth next year, while the plan being pushed by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., would cause an even larger hit on growth in fiscal 2013 — shaving almost half a percentage point.

That view was shared by Thomas Lam, Singapore-based chief economist at OSK-DMG, a joint venture of Malaysian securities firm OSK Holdings Bhd. and Germany’s Deutsche Bank AG.

“Our calculations … suggest that the Senate and House proposals, respectively, could lower economic growth on average by less than 0.5 percentage points, all else equal, over the next five years (from 2012 to 2016),” Lam said in a research note that suggested the Senate Democrat plan would hit the economy harder.

That last quote from OSK-DMG did not make clear whether the half-percent hit to GDP from the Senate bill would occur every year for the four year period (2012-2016) or just in one of those years (2013) and did not expressly say the House bill would be less bad for the economy.

I’m glad you posted, DWBartoo, as this comes up with my friends frequently.

I think for most Christians, the question isn’t “should we help those in need?” but “how should we help those in need?” Christians are commanded to feed the hungry and clothe the naked; to ignore this duty runs counter to Christ’s teachings, IMO.

That being said, many Christians reasonably complain about the mechanics of helping the poor… should it be through individual sacrifice or via the state? Should we be helping the poor in this country because they happen to live under the same flag or those in extreme poverty globally? Should that aid be through cash transfers or by guiding them towards Salvation?

As an atheist, these may seem like silly concerns (particularly the last), but the Christians you seek to reach may see things very differently. If you don’t want to broach those larger issues, I would recommend a different angle with your Christian friends:

“You are a Christian and Christ commands the following… I understand that you have issues with the details of how help gets to your fellow man but those issues and details do not absolve you from Christ’s command. You can’t do nothing because of your doubts.”

They may not agree with you about Medicare or Social Security, but at least you’ll be speaking the same language. They may, for example, conclude that they should donate more to the International Red Cross or dedicate their time at a soup kitchen or reaching out to others with the Gospel.

something we have never faced before

juliania, I am disgusted and angry as much as you, so I hate to say this, but over here at the Lake we went through exactly this same secrecy & betrayal during the fight over health-insurance reform.

A project that I did and good friend I made because of it taught me some things about the food banks.

They’re regional – based in big cities, yes, but they serve large numbers of rural counties surrounding them.

When people hear the words “food bank” they think of folding tables set up in church basements. Those are the clients of the food banks. The banks themselves have become, by sad necessity, very large operations. They do amazing work. The one in my region now distributes 2 million pounds of food every month to 11 counties. Two million pounds!

And it’s not enough.

They have a centralized organization called Feeding America if you want to learn more about them.

good link there, thx.

“GE CEO Jeffrey Immelt, The Head Of Obama’s Jobs Council, Is Moving Jobs And Economic Infrastructure To China At A Blistering Pace.”

Warren knows not what he does, mekathleen, merely what pleases his small grasp on his own wavering humanity. It is the smug pleasure of an infant who has discovered his toes …

;~DW

“….but also from people with jobs that pay so little they can’t get by.”

Without an increase in demand, the private sector is never going to create jobs. But those companies sitting on billions in cash could create demand by giving their employees a raise. (see recent headline that Apple has larger cash reserve than the US government.)

And not one of those piddlin 2 or 3% COL’s they’ve been handing out for the past 30 years but a real meaningful raise of 7, 10 or even 12%.

PS I am sure the TP’ers will tell us that those without enough cash to buy food for the month simply have too many 52 inch flat screens hanging around the house.

As a suggestion, on the Christian sermon front, might I point to the contrast between the attitude of Jesus and that of Judas, with respect to the poor. Jesus put the poor up at the very top of his list of beatific categories, and did say in response to Judas’s obsession with money that ‘the poor we have always with us.’ I would comment that the poor are being shunted most publicly out of the picture, out of the public dialogue, by both houses of Congress and by this administration. That indeed takes us further back along the road towards the dichotomy between Caesar and Christ, but do we really want to go there? The separation between church and state has nothing to do with making the state more unpalatable than the church, it would seem to me, though it does seem the state is determined to become so and some in the official churches want to aid and abet that process.

I do not think we are a Christian nation, nor should we be. What we should be is a democratic nation, appreciating and assisting the least among us, along with our many diversely spiritual citizens. That is, or was, America. And America has the poor always with us as well, all of the poor. Whose voices are being shut out of the national dialogue.

I am making a simple division here, the classical one between rich and poor. Rich is over a million dollars. Poor is everyone else, because their voices don’t count. The poor you have always with you, rich people. They are your pure inner souls which you are squandering. That’s something you cannot do without damaging yourselves – just look in the mirror.

good tactic. The need is going to overwhelm all political & civic institutions, so we need to figure out ways to help the poor & starving by any means necessary.

(Before anyone jumps on me for assuming the need has not already overwhelmed all existing institutions, I know the need is overwhelming in many parts of the country, but it may soon overwhelm the entire nation, if these idiots in Congress & the White House kill the economy this summer.)

:…Christians who have dedicated their lives and energies to actions which uplift and encourage the spiritual perspective of life…”

I am reminded that mainstream priests and preachers played a prominent role in the civil rights and anti-war movements in the ’60′s.

I feel ashamed. I did not know the food bank in DC distributes 28.4 million pounds of food a year. Also to eleven counties around DC. That is also over 2 million pounds a month!

Rich and poor. Categorization. Rich with respect to what? Expanding your post, what is a better approach, imo, is to drop the categorizations, and allow we are humans, with both spiritual and material needs. We celebrate each others gifts and support each others needs.

But then, that makes me what, communist? Certainly socialist.

Your view of economics is supported by many highly regarded economists including Nobel Prize winners (like Paul Krugman and Joseph Stiglitz). These are brilliant people who have dedicated their lives to the subject.

But it is not the only view of economics which is supported by many highly regarded economists including Nobel Prize winners (like Edward Prescott and Robert Lucas, Jr.). These, too, are brilliant people who have dedicated their lives to the same subject and come up with fundamentally different conclusions.

The Truth about economics is not something that will or can be settled here. About as far as we can reasonably go is to say that the best minds in the field disagree.

Didn’t find a link yet mentioning IMF angst over U.S. default, but this one quotes just about everybody else besides IMF.

Those whom you mention are inspirations to those friends … as, frankly, they are to me, Coach Bll, as clearly they are for you as well.

True compassionate courage, whatever its inspiration, is the means by which we all may truly move forward … to humane reason, to honest tolerance, and towards deeper spiritual understanding.

DW

Do you disagree with this important point in Peterr’s main thread?

And the good folks in Congress seem hell-bent on making things worse, by cutting government spending — and thus the jobs supported by that spending — all because of a new-found love of austerity.

It’s shocking, isn’t it?

I don’t have very many heroes left, but the food bankers are some of them.

One of the things I learned from my friend is that they have a big problem getting their message out. The “liberal” media is hopeless and when you bring up hunger in America to most people they snort and conjure up snarky images of fat people in Walmart.

Early Christians celebrated austerity, and suffering, for that matter. Hair shirts and all that.

Communitarian humanity is our ONLY way forward, Starbuck, all else is the “game” of advantage, elitism, and distance from life … the embrasure of “unending” strife.

Our Economic System is such a “game”, one that we are prepared to kill others in the pursuit of … calling it “free enterprize” which is conflated with democracy and freedom of thought.

Even small children will change their games if there is too much loss or despair …

DW

The earliest Chritians were socialists,Starbuck, just like you – the austerity and suffering, came later, after the Christian religion became useful for “control”.

DW

I realize that my position is in the extreme minority on this site, but…

I don’t believe that anyone in Congress (on either side) wants to make things worse. I think there is distrust on both sides and there is a lot of political gamesmanship going on but ultimately, both sides want to do what they think is best for the country and the people they represent.

Do I think austerity will hurt people? Yes. Is it avoidable? I don’t know. Would attempting to avoid it make things worse? I. Don’t. Know. Which path should we take? That’s the trillion dollar question and like I said, the best minds the world has to offer on the subject are divided.

When I first read “From each according to his abilities….” I thought, this is what McCarthy was fighting? It’s been a puzzlement ever since.

Now, taken at face value, it is perhaps, too controlling, but just tell me why someone who can make a “killing” (just love that word!) at the stock market is worth more than someone who amps up a production line, or finds a simple cure for a disease.

That barely scratches the surface.

What think you of the ideas which selise has presented us, sharing the ideas of Ben Mosler and Jamie Galbraith, among others, victorx?

DW

Yes, Fractal, that was indeed an immense betrayal of trust. But I don’t think it had the same impact, because there we were already in a faulty system and were pleading for a better one. Here we have a system which is solvent, had nothing to do with the crisis brought about by financial wheelerdealers, and which we know is our own and society’s input for all of us when in need. I described this earlier as a ‘baby over the balcony’ moment – something a parent, or a government, just should not ever do.

I do agree that healthcare was an enormous failure of process, and FDL was great in exploring that issue as they have been with this one.

(This was a response to Fractal answering my post above – for some reason my computer doesn’t always link up, sorry.)

In the current Age of the Divine Right of Money, humans are unable to imagine beyond, just as was the case during the Age of the Divine Right of Kings … it is. precisely, the same kind of thing.

It is not ability we now lack, but considered imagination, Starbuck. It is a question of intent, and not of luck.

DW

“….and the people they represent.”

And who might they be?

It is increasingly clear to me that the size of the campaign checks that get written have far more to do with this than district boundaries.

Yes, I realize that. Too many bought into that control, imo. Otherwise, the Inquisition might not have had the impact it did.

In a study of music through the ages, at the point where the inquisition took off, Spain was poised to be a leading country in the evolution of music. But since Spain was one of the last to throw off the yoke, it slipped from that spot and remains of lesser importance.

So I read, anyway.

Nevertheless, I play at least as much Spanish composers as any others, and go back to them when I reach for the keyboard, letting the spirit decide what to play, or at least try to play!

I believe that is due to the inability to imagine the difference between needs and preferences. I may “prefer” a million dollars, but I certainly don’t need it.

Perhaps, members of Congress should be required to pass whatever they hold most dear, throught the eye of an needle, Coach Bill?

Frankly, I think it gets to a deeper psychological truth, those who seek great power or wealth should never, for the sake of the rest of us, be allowed anywhere near either.

Just what “kind” of person wants, desperately, to “run” for Congress or the Presidency, simply to “run” the world?

Is it coincidence that sociopathic notions are being extolled at precisely the time when the common plight of our species is whether we shall survive at all, if we destroy the capacity of planet earth to support human life?

DW

Fascinating insight, Starbuck, I shall remember.

And thank you, for sharing such wisdom and learning.

DW

Precisely, Starbuck, precisely.

DW

Still, haven’t we put your latter group to the test long enough? Practically speaking, those have been the ideas put forward first by Republicans and now by this administration and, it would seem, the majority of Democrats in Congress. Trickle down economics seems to be the public mantra – save the rich and then jobs will be created and we’ll all live happily ever after. Were that the truth we would not be in this fix.

It is amazing to watch, YEAR AFTER YEAR, DECADE AFTER DECADE, how our elected officials make decisions that are VERY BAD for human beings, and the American people just let them get away with it.

But these austerity measures and cut backs to come really pale as a “disaster” compared to what we did to Iraq.

Maybe the writer of this piece could remind the people calling him that:

they still have colleges to go to and they have not been subject to random car bombings

they still have food banks to go to

they still have electricity and programs to help them meet the costs

they still have the luxury of going to the food bank or grocery store without worrying if they will come home alive

they still have the luxury of seeing their children go to school and not worry if they will come home alive

they still have the luxury of sending their spouse out to work – or to look for work – without worrying if they will come home alive

they still have functioning hospitals, and the can safely access those hospitals in an emergency even if they don’t have any money

they don’s have 1,200 infants dying every day in the USA (it is 100 per day in Iraq, and we are about 12 times the population)

they don’t have to walk miles to get drinking water, and the water out of their taps is quite good

they don’t have to drink polluted water

they don’t have to get a generator or share electricity with neighbors

they are not internal refugees inside their own country

they are not facing the choice of “run for your life or die” and running to Mexico or Canada

they generally live in areas where there is not gun battles on a regular basis

they are not seeing an epidemic of cancers, particularly in children.

And I wonder when the American people are going to wake up AND BECOME AWARE and demand that their government stop hurting people, stop spending all this money on evil and USELESS military activity, and stop destroying the environment. I wonder when that day will come.

I am pretty sure that day will never come as long as they have cable TV. I wonder how many people using the food banks still pay the cable bill. I personally know several people who collect food stamps, unemployment, Medicaid – and still have cable TV.

stupid is as stupid does……

“Considered imagination.”

That is wonderful coinage, DW! A failure of considered imagination, exactly right.

When I was a child. juliana, one of the most “telling” insults was, “If you’re so smart, why ain’t you rich?”

Bandied laviously about in the mid-fifties.

I always laughed when queried such, as it seemed and still seems, superficial, childish, and dull.

DW

I tried to donate through the link to Feeding America you posted @28. They take all sorts of credit cards & even by Amazon Payments, whatever that is. I can only use PayPal, so I will just keep donating to our local “client” groups like Martha’s Kitchen and So Others Might Eat (S.O.M.E.).

One hopes, dancewater, that wisdom will strike before America finds itself on the “receiving” end …

But it may well take that reality, brought murderously home, droning daily on, before true understanding may flourish.

Many imagine that “it” can’t happen here.

I am not so sanguine.

Before we may lay waste the lives of others, we have first had to lay waste our own reason and sanity … whatever may otherwise be said.

Remember, not the band, but the wisdom of the “grateful”, dead?

DW

Very good distinction. They are messing with Social Security now, which doesn’t need “fixing” like our miserable healthcare system needs fixing.

I was just going to remark on this part of your comment:

and the water out of their taps is quite good

they don’t have to drink polluted water

Cuz, actually, uhhh, no it’s not, and yes they do. The tap water is not “quite good” in lots of U.S. communities, esp. near fracking for natural gas or near coal-ash disposal waste ponds. So, yeah, they do “have to drink polluted water” in lots of the U.S. Even the Hudson River, for gods’ sake, was full of raw sewage last week.

But most of the rest of your comment was spot on, we do enjoy one of the best standards of living in the world; we do have the world’s biggest and most resilient economy; we can overcome our own problems ourselves.

Then you went and ruined your whole very important point by claiming that folks on food stamps pay their cable teevee bill. That’s just stupid, basic cable is actually considered a lifeline service in many areas just like basic phone service, because cable teevee is the only teevee and teevee is the most effective emergency alert system. Don’t ruin your good points by obsessing about cable teevee.

It isn’t really poor people still paying their cable bills that is the problem, dancewater – it is the affluent thinking that everyone is party to the conversations which are (I would hope but do not assume) available on cable. I say that a bit tongue in cheek, because I don’t know since I’ve never subscribed. The wealthy have a far different conversation among themselves than they would be having if the less well off were among the tv and radio presenters. They are out there; they just don’t have a voice in the public dialogue. Maybe that will change as the economy continues to go downhill.

The same can be said for newspapers such as The New York Times. The less well off can’t afford to stay current there either. I can access online bits from those eminent sources, but it’s hard to keep current. I’m lucky; not all who are not well off have either the time or equipment to do this. And they are being very misinformed by those ‘free’ avenues that are available to them, always excepting Amy Goodman and a very few occasional others. It’s not surprising they are bewildered by events.

To me, the public airways, avenues of information, ought to be the ones which you don’t have to pay into but can hear or see your own circumstances well represented and stated, with solutions of various kinds proposed. It used to be that way; it is not now. I have most definitely noticed that the ‘free’ channels and radio conversations have changed into private entities with a circular conversation between those who have ‘made it’ as far as news dissemination is concerned. It is all now corporate controlled.

That’s why I come here.

I appreciate selise bringing Mosler’s and Galbraith’s position to the group. That being said (and I think they will agree) they are:
1. opposed by the overwhelming majority of economists
2. uniformly opposed by the elite of the economics world

That doesn’t NECESSARILY mean that they are wrong, of course, but it is not a stretch to categorize them along with the small number of scientists who are global warming skeptics. Based upon the considered opinions of people with far greater qualifications than myself in climatology and economics, I conclude that anthropomorphic global warming is almost certainly occurring and MMT is almost certainly wrong in fundamental ways.

Neither Prescott nor Lucas, Jr. are proponents of trickle down, per se. They both deny the Keynesian notion of Aggregate Demand, however (at least as it has been interpreted by their contemporaries like Krugman and Stiglitz).

Well, victorx, economics is more about “belief” than empirical knowledge, and I confess to the good fortune of having known a number of thoughtful economists, my father among them … and I well recall the questions and doubts occassioned by Shumacher and the discussions that led my father and several of his fellow economists to endorse the notions of “Small is Beautiful”, but then it was a question of admitted prejudice for my father held that economics should be regional, rather than global, based upon careful and considered use of available resoucres … for my father and his friends always suggested that “wealth” comes from resources and what people do with them. My own studies in economics moves me to consider that it is, once again, the lack of considered imagination, or too-often a willingness to please power that circumscribes economic wisdom, such as it is, to the service of supporting a lucrative (for the economist) status quo.

I also recall the field of geography being thrown into upheaval at the notion that continents moved, plate tectonics … which is now widely accepted, most invaluably, in understanding such things as earthquakes, for example, and how mountains are formed …

Ah, the molehills … look at them grow, they’ll soon be big as mountains, don’t you know?

DW

Or maybe we have shrunk to the size of a mole hill!

No wonder, Starbuck, that the universe seem so incredibly huge … certainly well beyond my meager comprehension, alas.

Though, I will say, we’ve begun to grasp “how”, I’d venture to guess that we are several thousand years from understanding “why”.

;~DW

Academic fields do get thrown into upheaval from time to time. That being said, there are MANY fringe economic theories out there besides MMT with comparable claims to being the seismic event. It’s one thing to wonder, “Will one of these turn out to be a game changer in economic theory?” and quite another to bet heavily on a specific model just because it happens to match someone’s political beliefs or the author appears on a webpage I frequent.

The fact that almost no one in the field accepts it doesn’t necessarily mean MMT is wrong, but like the unaccepted theories of scientists who are global warming skeptics, that’s not the smart bet to make, IMO.

Yes, religious leaders are working this issue very hard, but it’s not getting much play in the mainstream press. From Al Kamen at the Washington Post:

Religious groups: Debt ceiling is a moral issue
By Al Kamen

In Washington, when you’re in crisis mode, when your back is to the wall, when no solution is in sight, you … meet.

So every interest group in Washington is meeting these days — with President Obama, House Speaker Boehner, Senate Majority Leader Reid, House Majority Leader Cantor and Democratic leader Pelosi, or with other groups, to influence the debt ceiling debate.

Perhaps the most unusual debt ceiling meeting was one Obama had last week with a coalition of Christian religious leaders who urged him not to hammer the poor in trying to reduce the national debt.

It is, one participant said, “an unprecedented coalition,” including leaders from the Episcopal Church, the Salvation Army, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, the National Association of Evangelicals, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and the United Church of Christ.

The reason it’s unprecedented is because “we don’t agree on much else,” said John Carr of the Catholic Campaign for Human Development.

The coalition focuses on those Jesus called “the least of these” (Matthew 25:45), which speaks to obligations to look to the less fortunate. One goal it to get lawmakers to consider, “what would Jesus cut?” (Actually, to ask the question is probably to answer it.)

The religious media has covered the coalition, which is called the “Circle of Protection,” but the lamestream media generally hasn’t written much about its activities, which have included prayer vigils on the Hill and fasts. The group has been working the issue hard. . .

When Catholics, Evangelicals, Lutherans, and the UCC (among others) can get together on something like this, that’s saying something.

My ELCA bishop’s press release on this meeting is here. From Bishop Mark Hansen’s remarks to Obama:

Mr. President, isn’t it good that God does not join in our drawing lines in the sand, but instead draws circles of protection beginning first with those who are most vulnerable. … Jesus kept standing with those whom individuals with political and religious power wanted to exclude and judged unworthy. We are pledging to stand with those whom God embraces in God’s circle of protection. In the difficult budget decisions to be made, let our shared commitment be to those who are hungry and those who live in poverty.

Sadly, the only shared commitment on Capitol Hill appears to be one’s own reelection and the defeat of one’s enemies.

No offense was intended. What I was trying to say is that most people think of Social Security as a program that benefits the elderly, but it’s really much more than that.

My apologies.

The comparison, though useful, is not entirely apt, for too many refuse to consdier beyond what they have comfortably “learned” …for such consideration might affect what might otherwise be “earned”, if protecting great wealth and fattening one’s porfolio is what is desired.

Not long after my father lectured at the B School, suggesting the need of moral compass and being firmly allied with the “interests” of all, not just the few, Ivan Boesky arrived to announce that “Greed is GOOD”, sending forth young lads and young lasses to kick the people of the Soviet Union hard in the asses. Greed went “over”, here, really big time as well, and that is the legacy of “conventional” economic “theory” as she is still practiced today. I suspect that Adam Smith might well consider MMT to be well worth his time to consider, especially when you ponder his “Vile Maxim” which, today, rarely is taught.

DW

Ah, thank you Peterr, that is encouraging to learn … and I apologize for filling so much of your thread.

A wonderful post.

Which I recommend to the consideration of all.

DW

Whenever the “Why” engages concerning contemplation of the Universe, especially viewing a particularly awesome photo from the space telescopes, a certain wave of something from the beyond washes over like a tsunami, and I stand there, electrified and at the same time, scaled to the size of a Euclid geometric point. For at that moment, I also completely “see” the scale shrink further into the micro world so that at that Euclidean point, all scalars disappear and it’s all one.

Yet the why goes unanswered. Maybe no answer possible from the 4 dimensional perspective. When I am in that state mentioned above, why isn’t even a factor.

It’s notable that at places like FermiLab, studies in both the micro world and the universe are beginning to take on similarities.

Good on you for donating. Doing it locally might be better.

BTW, I know Martha’s Kitchen. Could there be better people?

He makes me want to lock him in a room with Matthew 6, no microphone, no twitter, no audience and some time alone with his thoughts.

Ah, Starbuck, I share your awe, and note that, coming and going, the immensity of universe, whether large or very small, is astounding, and as well, the amount of “empty” space suggests even “more” …

A pleasure to converse with you, comparing notes from “all” over, “under”, and “through”.

DW

Thank you for responding. It’s not just you, or a specific religious practice that i see it, it’s widespread, such that the implications are not even felt.

A big, wide smiley to you, DW!

A terrible and frightening fate for such as he, mekathleen, to be alone … in the immensity of open time and infinite space.

I think one of the most cruel aspects of America’s penal “system” is the use (which is really, an abuse) of solitary confinement … it is a psychological torture premissed upon vengence and no more a civilised act than capital punishment.

However, Warren could truly profit from some serious meditation upon life, its magic, its splendor, and its spiritual purpose …

DW

;~DW

the vast majority of people in the USA have drinkable water from their tap. This is not true in many other countries, but especially in Iraq.

And, no, people do not need cable TV. Many of us live without it for decades and do just fine.

And, if I lost my job, the internet would go too, even though it is $30/month. I would go to the library, or a WiFi spot.