Update: S&P is now denying that they endorse the Reid plan. They evidently understand the implications of this kind of “selective disclosure” to big investors….
Standard and Poors is evidently meeting with high-stakes gamblers and letting them know where to place their bets as they manipulate the global economy.
But they are also playing a much more sinister game. Like a cat toying with a mouse, they are also inserting themselves in the political process and setting themselves up to be kingmaker in the 2012 election.
An item in Politico’s Morning Money caught my eye:
BEHIND THE MUSIC – S&P’s John Chambers has met with a number of big investors include Pimco’s Mohammed El-Erian. Apparently he is telling them he prefers Reid’s plan.
CNN’s Erin Burnett also tweets that the “source who met with Standard and Poors says SIZE of Boehner plan is the problem.MIGHT not be enough to avert downgrade,needs to be closer to $3TR all at once.”
If these reports are correct, S&P is meeting privately with big investors and giving them information that they are not giving the public about about what their research says, what position they will take, and what they intend to do with regard to a potential credit downgrade of US debt.
This appears to be “selective disclosure” to big investors on the part of Standard and Poor’s. And while putting a $4 trillion number on a deficit reduction package might be in violation of the IOSCO code of conduct, “selective disclosure” is in violation of SEC rules.
It’s illegal for you or me to trade on material information not available to the general public. If investors trade on the basis of material nonpublic information, that’s against the law, too. SEC regulations state:
[W]hen an issuer, or person acting on its behalf, discloses material nonpublic information to certain enumerated persons (in general, securities market professionals and holders of the issuer’s securities who may well trade on the basis of the information), it must make public disclosure of that information.
Yet here is S&P’s John Chambers meeting with Pimco, and telling them they favor the Reid plan — information they have not made available to the public.
If you read the consent order issued by the Massachusetts Securities Division in June of this year (PDF), that’s exactly the activity that got Goldman Sachs in trouble. Goldman was selectively giving information to “large institutional investors” that it did not make available to the public.
Prior to Dodd-Frank, credit ratings agencies were exempted from selective disclosure regulations. Dodd-Frank removed that exemption. S&P is now subject to the same laws that Goldman Sachs is.
But S&P’s activities have the potential to be much, much more sinister than Goldman Sachs’s.
It appears imminent that the credit ratings agencies will downgrade US debt. It’s completely irrational and unjustifiable, but it’s not a matter of “if” but “when.” And just as the battle over the debt ceiling between Republicans and Democrats was largely consumed with pinning responsibility for any default on the other (“nobody wants to be Newt”), so now the battle seems to have shifted to who will bear the blame for an inevitable credit downgrade.
The Wall Street Journal says that a credit downgrade could have a serious negative impact on Obama’s 2012 election chances. Ordinarily I would say that was the WSJ just playing their part on the GOP bench, but nobody knows what the implications of a downgrade would be, and it has the potential to be absolutely devastating.
It’s not a coincidence that Timothy Geither met with Standard & Poor’s in April to lobby them heavily not to downgrade the US debt.
Nor is it a coincidence that RNC Chairman Rence Priebus was egging S&P on, tweeting that “It is alarming that the WH would encourage S&P to suppress a damaging fiscal report for Obama’s partisan speech.” Or that Darryl Issa is out there saying “we should be downgraded.” Everything in our current environment gets reduced to a battle for partisan political advantage.
S&P is coming in on the side of the Reid plan now, even though that plan appears to be indistinguishable from the Boehner plan in just about every meaningful way. But that plan does not meet the $4 trillion number they prescribed when they issued their negative watch, so it doesn’t meet their own standards to prevent a downgrade. Moreover the Reid plan has zero chance of passing. But its inevitable failure will be used to justify S&P’s decision to downgrade, and it allows them to shrug and say “we weren’t playing politics, we supported the Democratic plan.”
But no matter what political stagecraft is orchestrated, there is a very serious chance that a ratings downgrade will trigger an economic downturn that would cause unemployment to rise dramatically. And everyone on all sides knows that Obama would most certainly pay the price for that in 2012.
I don’t care whether you’re rabidly pro- or anti-Obama, a Republican or a Democrat or an Independent or a Green or none of the above. What S&P and the other CRAs are doing right now is completely illegal and outside the boundaries of their own codes of conduct. They’re acting as Wall Street’s tasers in Shock Doctrine 2.0, and making themselves the key player in determining what happens not only with the 2012 election but with the world’s economic future. They are playing a very dangerous game with the world economy that could have devastating consequences for all of us, regardless of what your partisan identification is.
Maybe you’re a Republican and you say “so what, too bad for Obama.” But what they do to one side today they will most certainly do to the other side tomorrow. And I would be saying the exact same thing no matter who was in the White House.
Does anyone really want to see an organization have that kind of power over the political process?
No private entity should have the power to bring down a president with an arbitrary and unjustifiable wave of the hand. No company should be able to line up a nation’s assets and orchestrate a fire sale on behalf of Wall Street, and then give them a private showing about what’s in store. They should not have the right demand cuts that destroy critical social safety net programs that the public overwhelmingly supports like Social Security and Medicare, and they most certainly should not be able to crown a new king as they implement Wall Street’s shock doctrine vision for the future.
Everyone who values democracy should be deeply concerned about what Standard and Poors is doing right now.



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“Everyone who values democracy should be deeply concerned about what Standard and Poors is doing right now.”
What democracy would that be, exactly?
Democracy. It’s a noun.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/democracy
All the more reason to call our reps and scream for a clean debt limit raising bill….
Thanks for this, Jane.
So – higher interest rates will accelerate the sucking dry of both the government and the public, and as a bonus give the Rs a leg up in the election. From the POV of the PTB, how is this either irrational or unjustifiable?
we don’t have a democracy and the law only applies to the little people
I’m concerned, but these people are MOTU. What chance do I, a poor put upon taxpayer, have in the scheme of things. I guess I’ll make my feelings known at the ballot box (I’m not sure how much longer I can continue the snark).
This whole episode is repugnant and anyone not having their head planted firmly between their ass cheeks should be outraged to the point of violins, I know I am.
Looks like a slow motion coup.
It’s only “completely illegal and outside the boundaries of their own codes of conduct” if someone in power gives a shit.
And, why not do what the banks did to get AAA ratings on junk: pay them off.
I like to look at who the people are behind the brand; in the case of S&P it’s Lou Eccleston.
In my opinion, there is a blatant conflict of interest wrt Mr. Eccleston’s total business units that he is in charge of. S&P is also a stock index (S&P 500) as well as other business IQ products. Here’s an interview he gave in March of this year as regards those products. [youtube]
He’s also a member of SIIA a lobbying arm for the big global software companies and was a keynote speaker at their meeting in 2009.
He also used to work for Mayor Bloomberg and, well read for yourself:
What a guy…
Jane, agree 100%. My only thought here is not particularly helpful.
The purely political decision of Obama to use the context of a fake defict/debt crisis and the need for a debt-limit increase — which has always been automatic — as the vehicle for driving a “Grand Bargain” was always fraught with risk. It was playing right into the hands of those out to destroy him.
What goes around …
Obama trying to outbid the republicans for S&P’s papal blessing.
We. Are. So. Fucked.
I have heard that a phenomenon my be present all around one, but that it is not until one becomes aware of it that it is noticed. Why is it that in the last few days I have been seeing references to the last days of the Soviet Union in so many threads and blogs?
“The Wall Street Journal says that a credit downgrade could have a serious negative impact on Obama’s re-election chances.”
And lopping off chunks of SS and Medicare won’t?
you can look from one end of big business to the other, every sector, and find such conduct.
Until the people running those corporations are held responsible, by the courts, and the legislators, they will continue to do these things. why shouldn’t they?
there’s simply no reason for them to stop.
It has been conclusively shown, repeatedly since the advent of Bush junior, and continuing under Obama,
that the leaders of these monster corporations are above the law.
Well, nothing like being on the sharp end of the neoliberal order, where the fate of a entire country is determined by a few banks in Lower Manhattan…Mexico ’94, Southeast Asia ’98, Argentina ’02, and on and on and on…
Somebody posted something recently about a “reverse Shock Doctrine,” whereby the elites push too quicky and wake up the populace and inadvertantly usher in a progressive pushback…
Keep it up, Jane. Appreciate all your hard work.
Wherever one turns there is another example of a system so corrupt that any prospect of reform is a fool’s errand.
Jane Hamsher and Dave Dayen, outstanding journalism. amazing work.
It’s like a gang war with one crime family battling another crime family with the public caught in the crossfire.
let’s not forget Beowulf’s ‘find’ from yesterday:
Ratings Agencies have proven Neiwert’s maxim – Lone Wolves eventually form packs
Progressive Win!
Don’t worry Jane, the SEC will save us!
I feel completely safe trusting the SEC to enforce their rules and report malefactors to the DoJ.
I’d ask someone to wake up AG Holder and read him Jane’s article. But, he’s busy working on his legacy, which is: upon his demise, he will have exhumed from his deepest butt cavity TWO, not one, but TWO totally petrified thumbs that will be displayed at the Smithsonian alongside Dillenger’s schnitzle as his contribution to society. However, such petrification requires 4 to 8 years of deep insertion and deeper sleep so I better let him continue his effort without disturbing him as the enemies of freedom take over our country.
It seems that the whole thing from top to bottom is illegal and political malpractice.
Wait ’til they decide to run the country by fiat from a group of 12 who-knows-who.
Hartmann was discussing the economy this morning saying that the banks are up to their old tricks and are back to sub-prime lending; another housing bubble on the way.
Just in time for the safety net shredding.
“Shared Sacrifice” ( which ain’t gonna happen) would have been 3/4 out of the people’s hides and 1/4 out of who-knows-whose hide.
The TPers may actually head of social cuts with their zeal to bring down the government.
Very peculiar times when the men who bought them their seats can’t even control them now!
“nononononono, we didn’t mean it to go further than punking the old, the sick and all the poor & the middle class” (Elites) “Sorry man, this is what we believe in and we’re going to do it. What? did you LIE to us?” (TPers) “Oh, and hand over some more lolly!”
If the debt ceiling isn’t raised, it’s not the end of the world. Obama would still have options:
* He can ignore it and appeal to the 14th Ammendment of the U.S. Constitution, which trumps the debt-limit federal law.
* He can repudiate the $1.6T of Treasury bonds the Fed holds. (The Paul/Baker plan.)
* He can purchase (i.e., pay off) the $1.6T of Treasury bonds the Fed holds with a freshly minted $1.6T platinum coin. (The beowulf/letsgetitdone plan.)
Thank you, Jane. I think I will pass along this post to my rep, along with my recommendations for further action. He’s probably tired of hearing from me, and it never does any good anyway, but neither can I stop.
One can only dream.
i hear Naomi Klein and others are chaining themselves to the WH fence protesting the Shock Doctrine being visited upon the American people. May they have as much more luck than Choi (?) did with gay rights.
A related problem is the rating agencies letting their own goofy economic ideology affect their ratings. In a rational world, it’s not possible for the US to default. The Congress might artificially impose a default and the President allow them, but that shouldn’t happen. Now the rating entity is saying it will downgrade if it doesn’t get some level of debt reduction it prefers. But that level is irrelevant, and who asked for their opinion? That’s just the agency expressing it’s own goofy debt hysteria views, since the US can’t default unless forced by Congress and the President.
Everybody has a boss, and even bosses have bosses (and neighbors and friends and angry congressmen). As for S&P, its boss is the Board of Directors of its parent company McGraw-Hill. For example, just who does Yale and Howard University expect to replace federal funding for student loans, Pell Grants and research projects if their own employees intentionally damage the US Govt’s Public Credit? After all, the same Constitution that protects Free Speech also says you can’t question the validity of the public debt.
Another example, Accenture did over $800 million of contract work for the US Govt last year (including administering the federal student aid that Yale and Howard are going to miss so much ). It would seem rather counter-intuitive for Accenture’s Chairman to burn such a large client in such a spectacular way. Uncle Sam buy a lot of drugs from Eli Lilly… OK you get the idea.
McGraw-Hill Board of Directors
Pedro Aspe
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Protego Asesores Financieros
Sir Winfried Bischoff
Chairman
Lloyds Banking Group plc
Douglas N. Daft
Retired Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
The Coca-Cola Company
William D. Green
Chairman
Accenture
Linda Koch Lorimer
Vice President and Secretary
Yale University
Harold McGraw III
Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer
The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc.
Chairman of the Board
Robert P. McGraw
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Averdale International, LLC
Hilda Ochoa-Brillembourg
Founder, President and Chief Executive Officer
Strategic Investment Group
Sir Michael Rake
Chairman
British Telecom
Edward B. Rust, Jr.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
State Farm Insurance Companies
Presiding Director
Kurt L. Schmoke
Dean
Howard University School of Law
Sidney Taurel
Chairman Emeritus
Eli Lilly and Company
Harold W. McGraw, Jr.
Chairman Emeritus
The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc.
Chairman Emeritus
We don’t have a Democracy, and anyone who thinks we do is kidding themselves. What Standard and Poor’s is doing is par for the course. They are part of the shadow government, a group of unelectable elite who make the decisions. That’s the way it’s been for many years now, and that’s the way it’s going to continue to be. In fact, I’m sure Standard and Poor’s would protest that what they are doing is their right as “masters of the universe”.
I no longer have sympathy for Americans. The debt-driven wealth that envelops this country has driven the people to permament apathy. We are more concerned with what Snooki said than anything the government or shadow government are up to. As far as I’m concerned – let it all burn. Right to the ground. Americans deserve what they get at this point. They continue to let corporations run the world, so they get what they deserve.
Here’s to MORE privatization and disaster capitalism, until every single American is under the permanent thumb of corporate America.
Enjoy your America Idol America.
Right, a self imposed default.
Same shit. Another day.
Timmy, just pay the debt as it comes due. You know with cash or whatever and don’t sell anymore bonds.
Exactly. They are joining Obam and the other conservatives in trying to shock-doctrine into austerity.
I am a little surprised – they have a rather anti-S&P article over at HuffPost – http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/27/debt-ceiling-rating-agencies-downgrade_n_910830.html
It’s a good game. It works since everyone (except a few here at FDL) thinks we are headed into hell in a default and then bankruptcy.
Very good article by Robert Reich http://robertreich.org/
…”Standard & Poor’s didn’t exactly distinguish itself prior to Wall Street’s financial meltdown in 2007. Until the eve of the collapse it gave triple-A ratings to some of the Street’s riskiest packages of mortgage-backed securities and collateralized debt obligations.
Standard & Poor’s (along with Moody’s and Fitch) bear much of the responsibility for what happened next. Had they done their job and warned investors how much risk Wall Street was taking on, the housing and debt bubbles wouldn’t have become so large – and their bursts wouldn’t have brought down much of the economy”….
What happens to all the bonds that Americans hold if we default? Who wins?
And Obama is sworn to uphond the Constitution, which by the Supremacy Clause trumps federal laws such as the debt-limit.
Even if the debt limit is not raised, he is obliged by the Constution (and his oath to uphod it) to pay the government’s bills.
And, as I pointed out in a MyFDL diary today, Social Security checks are in no way block by the debt limit; SS bonds can be rolled over. when he thratened not to send out SS checks, Obama displayed both his meanness and his ignorance.
Mean? nah. Ignorant, oh yeah. Well maybe a little mean.
Good reporting, Jane.
On behalf of which large investors is Standard & Poors signaling members of Congress publicly? Certainly more than one.
And who is Pimco’s Mohammed El-Erian fronting for? Might it be a foreign government?
Or something more interesting? From the Google description:
Do you have the home addresses? That might be useful.
Recall what Jamie Galbraith said back in April (as reported by David Lindorff in The Atlantic):
I called my congresscritter Sherrod Brown to tell him he votes to cut one cent from entitlements I wont vote for him in 2012. Same goes for 0bummer. Yes, I was one of those young people out for O in 08, Never Again.
I am 22 years old and SSMM better be there when I get to 90, you know the age of eligibility when O and the rethugs get their way
I liken their bailouts to the Menendez Brothers receiving clemency because they were orphans
Doing full investigative exposure pieces on S & P is very important right now. Naming the names and who everyone is tied to, even more important.
Jane, this is a great post.
The point S & P appears to be making right now is that they (including Moody’s and Fitch) are creating the new paradigm for defining investment risk through creating risk in sound investments, in order to create the greatest gains in CDSs.
That is a superb point and the entire comment deserves to be a diary.
When people sued the rating agencies for their triple A ratings for sub prime mortgages, they responded that their ratings were opinions, free speech protected by the first amendment. It seems, though I haven’t really looked into it, judges bought the argument. That should diminish, if not eliminate, the power of S & P’s “opinion”.
Be all that as it may, this is merely another example of our “democracy’s” failure and another example of a whine with nothing behind it. It’s way past time to try something new.
We should have a video interview with him posted here. Or have a live salon with him and Krugman.
Yikes. We need to take S&P down.
Nobody wins.
The bonds that Americans own are held by pension funds, 401(k) funds, upper middle class individuals with a “safe” college fund, corporations as a way to store their cash in a semi-liquid form, colleges and universities, nonprofit organizations…and on and on. And bond funds as the less risky part of their asset structure. Since these are being saved for future spending, default it sorta like destroying future demand in order to obey some accounting rules. It destroys the public and private sector financing simultaneously.
But that is assuming that all government debt ends up in default. Which violates the 14th amendment. So in that eventually we are screwed both politically and economically. Start planting those local gardens and laying in seed for next year.
If their “free speech” causes markets to fall and for vulnerable people to be hurt, is that not a form of hate speech due to the harm caused?
LOL Good one.
Jean, I will not speak for you, but I had rather see the repubs back in than eat any more of this “centrist” shit.
I mean, their policies are abject failures, and we’re STILL getting them from Obama. The GOP is having their cake and eating it, too. They get to run their shit, and when it fails, they can blame Obama and the democrats, and run even crazier shit, that the lunatic conservative worldview wasn’t adhered to closely enough.
Gahhhhh!
Hmm, that board of directors almost looks like a “Super Congress”…
It occurs to me that the real republican plan for SS is to remove it as a safety net for the american people, and use it as a safety net for Wall Street.
so why wouldn’t Obama have someone like Galbraith or Krugman on his economic team to help him understand and combat the utter BS of the debt limit game? Why wouldn’t he listen to them now????
and would not the need for credit downgrade be removed with the acquisition of a shiny new 1T Platinum $?
Sheesh. I look at that list and the mind boggles at the wealth and privilege encompassed in that small group alone. Multiply that by ? and see what we are fighting against.
Then I think of the old lady at the Rx counter who had to put aside her orange juice and socks because her med cost had increased by a few dollars.
It is criminal and it is a mortal sin.
Putting on my tinfoil hat…
I was thinking Obama was behind this stunt by Standard and Poors.
They came out backing the 4 trillion figure he wanted and Wall Street would not need anyone to front for them. Why would S&P stick their nose in this on their own? They are playing a dangerous game with no real upside for them.
Because he can’t stand to be wrong or challenged. His ego has driven us to the point of ruin.
After that comment was published, there was an interesting back-and-forth between Krugman and Galbraith over the potential for inflation if we cover deficits with printed money (presumably, as opposed to borrowed money).
Don’t think so. The ratings agencies want it both ways. They want us to believe their ratings are considered evaluations of market risk worth paying for and they want to be able to say they are only exercising their right to free speech when their ratings are way off the mark and someone tries to hold them accountable. Their opinions are worthless and should be ignored. Unfortunately, it is in some people’s interest not to ignore them.
I am surprised the judges bought it. Free speech has values served which often serve as a means test in cases.
S & P’s “free speech” did not meet the “values” test.
entities like standard and poors, im sure, have always been ready to impose their conditions on the rest of the us. If it werent for television info-ganda mouthpeices and rags like the NY times broadcasting what S$P thinks, 3 times per day, then it would be a non issue.The reason we dont have an effective govt anymore, or rather, the reason we have privately owned govt now, is that everything and everyone is for sale. There are no institutional changes that could be made to our system that would ‘fix’ it. Our kind of govt always assumed a certain basically ethical and moral civil servant. Actually when is the last time you even heard the title “civil cervant” ? The generations that came before us built a stable mountain of prosperity. Watching these grifters operate is like watching the surviving familly members of the guy across the street who died last year, fight over and pawn off all of his property until one day the place is decrepit and over grown with 2 ft high grass and theres a bank auction sign on the lawn.
In such a case, the bills would get paid. And, such a coin would wind up as “vault cash,” which does not count toward “money in circulation,” e.g. M1 and M2.
where’s a good hacker when you need one? Oh, to be a fly on the wall…
thank dog for that “eye” Jane
The United States is just one of the countries around the world getting the “austerity” treatment by the gangster banks who demand control over national government policy in exchange for backing off the pressure on the government’s debt. Part of the policy is to repeal any laws restraining the ability of international corporations to do as they please, part of the policy is to demand that the government sell them any public resources they want, and part of the policy is to break down the people into servitude by cutting pensions, unemployment and any other social subsidies.
Normally this is done by the World Bank and the IMF, but that can’t be done in the US because we are the World Bank and IMF. Here, they must be more clever and find a way to get us to do it to ourselves by our own political system. But it is all the same worldwide movement to abolish the power of national governments and substitute the power of international corporations. Standard and Poor is just a tool that they are using, their own version of the gangster’s enforcer.
A centrist is a man who can’t decide which works best, a belt or suspenders, so he wears both.
I’m not running the NY Public Library help desk and besides I would strongly discourage contacting anyone at home.
Be thinking “and who’s their boss”? That’s who also could be contacted. Universities have board of regents (as nonprofits, they have to keep the state attorney general to stay off the tax rolls), companies have board of directors (who worry about shareholder lawsuits). Above all, do they (and McGraw-Hill itself for that matter) have public customers? that is, local, state, federal govt agencies— steer clear of private clients, contacting them leaves you open to a tortuous interference with contractual relations claim. By contrast, that legal risk is absent when the issue involves matters of public concern like taxpayer-funded contracts.
If there ARE public clients, then right on, start bugging the pols. If mayors, governors, congressmen are calling the Board members and the board members parent organization to ask if this is how they treat all of their customers… ouch. And for the big federal contractors, pissing off senior congressman (or any Senator) is like garlic to a vampire. If a US Senator called the Chief of Naval Operations and says “we’re giving you $180 million so Accenture can upgrade your accounting software. If your boy is going to thank us by putting a gun to our heads to cut spending… we’re going to start by putting a lot of sailors on the beach”, that will have an impact.
http://washingtontechnology.com/articles/2010/06/03/accenture-navy-books.aspx
That’s so sad.
Perhaps going liberal would be more comfortable…Naked democracy.
“Standard and Poors is evidently meeting with high-stakes gamblers and letting them know where to place their bets as they manipulate the global economy.”
I am glad that finally someone is shedding light on this casino operation that is called Wall Street and the rating agencies manipulation of markets. How can any one of these agencies be objective when they have stakes in the game as well?
Meanwhile your low level rube investor readily eats up the cheerleading and propaganda crap that is put out on CNBC and subliminal suggesting of what to invest in, all the while the big boys rake in the big cash based on insider information.
Thank you Jane. Alas, I must head back to the salt mines. Like Oscar Wilde said, work is the curse of the drinking class. :o)
Do we really think there will be a default? I don’t think so. These guys are not all that far apart. they both figure it’s ok to starve grandma, since she is not a productive member of society. There’s just a little difference in how they go about it. Not good to put the old ones out on the ice, you know, so the dems will take a little longer to do it. They’ll come together on this, I’m confident.
If we ever get control of government again, maybe in 20 years or so, we really should repeal this stoopid law. And, oh yeah, try not to pass a balance budget amendment. It’s the same thing.
S&P is walking it back.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/SP-official-Credible-deficit-apf-858247074.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=6&asset=&ccode=
Which is why I have to wonder whether Standard & Poor’s realizes that this could be the final nail in the coffin for THEIR credibility. People won’t remember them as being a legitimate credit ratings agency in the future, but instead as a corrupt, financial instrument which further depressed our economy. At that point, the Europeans may get really serious about having their own ratings agencies. What is the SEC doing about all of this?
I still have doubts about whether S&P matters at all when it comes to T bonds.
Fascism usually is a slow and deliberate process.
Is there anything preventing a European agency from downgrading the debt?
I don’t think they do. I tend to think they have an agenda.
Then again I’m not a big fan of credit reporting agencies. They appear to be big money making schemes IMO.
Maybe Standard & Poor’s “purpose” all along was to convince everyone that deficit reduction was necessary… even though historical data shows this is the opposite of what we should be doing.
Whatever they and their masters have in mind, you can be sure it is some scheme to separate people from their money.
Per the current headline article at HuffPo:
Shorter Clyburn: “Stop trying to shock-doctrine us into austerity, Mister President.”
they are rightly scared shitless that far too many of us understand they were a ‘go’ for safety net cuts – love it
someday we all have to come around to asking what differnce a deficit or a debt matters. No one can objectively answer that question bc it does not matter. Period. It is all in people’s minds and as long as people believe it then S&P, etc can use it to their advantage.
Do you think he will or is he too stoopid?
There is no European based credit ratings agency. Fitch comes the closest with headquarters in London and New York. There have been discussions lately to have a Europe based agency, due to what the European Union believes is “bias” by the current ratings agencies.
EU attacks credit rating agencies, suggests bias
I don’t think he will. He’ll use the excuse that he doesn’t want to create bad blood with the other side, that compromise is necessary and the Democracy insists that both sides be represented.
Well then, Fitch or the IMF can do it.
Bad blood? O man the man is fucking nuts.
Of course. All of this has been about “respecting my colleagues” and “acknowledging the wants and needs of the entire electorate”. “Coming together for a positive solution” and “winning the future, together”.
I don’t think he can wipe his ass without Boner handing him the toilet paper.
German radio reports S&P just announced it is downgrading Greek government debt to “Highly Speculative”, explaining it believes there may be selective repayment of that debt and is not ruling out or predicting further downgrades of that debt in the future.
This is probably the death knell of Greece. We’re going to see a fire sale of all public assets now.
I can’t wait to visit the Verizon Wireless Parthenon.
Now we need to get the progressives to team up with the Tea Party to block that Reid/Boehner piece of shit.
Done already (my Rep is a Repub) and in these words:
Get off your ass, and pass a CLEAN DEBT CEILING INCREASE bill — just like you would for a REPUBLICAN president.
I’m damn sick and tired of this Tea Party idiocy.
If my mother doesn’t get her Social Security check next month I’m holding you personally responsible.
If YOU idiots in Washington (Dems and Repubs) don’t start working for America rather than Wall Street, I will be voting in a Green or Independant candidate next year.
I’ve had enough of this nonsense.
I vote both.
I’ve seen nothing to suggest that this President is any more capable of changing his opinion based on facts brought before him then the one prior.
Yet again, I hope I am wrong.
I don’t think he’ll let it go to default. At that point, his bluff will have been called, and he’ll have nowhere else to go.
The statement from Clyburn suggests that the progressive caucus within the House know it would be political suicide to vote for cuts.
I know people have been blaming the teahadists but if it were just a matter of them dragging their feet then some Democrats could have crossed over. The truth is they don’t want to do this either because they can read polls and they rightfully believe this would be political suicide.
It sounds like Galbraith could give some pointers, if anyone cared to ask him, about how to set up and run a democratic, accountable “Joint Select” Congressional Committee – constituted with ordinary powers, not as a superpower proxy for Party leadership – to lay the groundwork for the further work that Members of Congress claim needs to be done, with regard to the federal debt and tax reform, etc., but that those members seem to have no interest in actually doing themselves (judging from their passive behavior during the weeks and months that they’ve been deliberately cut out of the process by a few Party Bosses and the President).
Senator Mark Udall of Colorado, for example, who likes to talk about the need for Party rancor in Congress to subside, just spoke on the floor in favor of the Harry Reid budget deal, without saying one word about the profoundly-undemocratic Catfood II Committee contained within it. That undemocratic “Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction,” as Udall well knows, is deliberately designed to block the input of every Representative and Senator in Congress other than the 12 members who would be selected by Party leadership to propose changes in any and every category they may choose: “The goal of the joint committee shall be to reduce the deficit to 3 percent or less of GDP.”
Likewise, Senator Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island just spoke on the Senate floor in favor of the Reid plan. Whitehouse at least mentioned the Catfood II Committee, but did so approvingly, without bothering to mention that the vast majority of Members of Congress would have no ability to amend its terms upon Catfood II’s presentation to Congress of proposed legislation in December.
Senator Whitehouse also referred to the apparent resistance among some freshmen and other House Republicans to the dictated terms of the deal proposed by Speaker Boehner as “disarray.” Which probably says all that needs saying about the lack of commitment to democratic process, and the contempt for the egalitarian legislative body in which he serves, of Party-loyalist Senator Whitehouse. Senator Mark Udall, too, seems only too happy to have a few Party Bosses dealing in the backrooms replace open, democratic legislating by members of the House and Senate – who were elected to publicly work together in “bipartisan” standing committees and on the floor.
[Speaker Boehner's proposed deal, by the way, is a deal that both Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (Monday) and House Rules Committee Chairman David Dreier (Tuesday) have publicly stated that Harry Reid himself endorsed last Saturday, only to drop it after Obama rejected it on Sunday - evidently because of its shorter-term debt-limit extension.]
Unlike process-free backroom deals, as Mark Udall ought to realize by now (unless his feel-good nonpartisan talk is simply intended to mask his partisan actions), tried-and-true House and Senate procedures have built-in democratic machinery designed to achieve (simple-majority) results – if anyone “walks out,” their vote isn’t counted, but the process doesn’t stop. And yet, the Party Bosses of Udall and Whitehouse have deliberately blocked the use of that democratic legislative machinery in the Senate this year (and last) with regard to the adoption of a federal budget plan by the Senate (a budget plan that happens to be legally required).
So why aren’t we hearing any complaints from Democratic (as opposed to democratic) Senators Sheldon Whitehouse and Mark Udall about the “disarray” that’s been predictably created by their own Party Bosses, who have abused their power to prevent the Senate’s democratic legislative process from operating as designed?
Criminalize it, threaten to drive S&P out of business. It should not be legal to rate a country by a private company. Governments have a lot of tools at their disposal, only here to we have profiteers in charge of the government. We all know this rating companies are not benign, look at the damage they have inflicted on the economy. They can be dealt with, if there is enough political will to stop them.
The reason Social Security checks would not go out, is if the Government defaults, the Social Security Administration shuts down (and so do the rest of the “non-essential” government agencies).
No staff — no data tape gets prepared to give each bank the direct deposit info for the beneficiaries.
Jane, I completely agree with you and your post.
What next? Jamie D’s face on Mt Rushmore? The end game is sell off the govt assets to Wall st so they sell those assets to overseas investors…as far a another depression that is good news for Wall st as Companies can hire for less salaries and benefits….that’s called “being competetive”..aka much lower standard of living for us!!! History will record that a once great company was sold out by “elected” govt officals to multi national companies for a few bucks! Is it interesting that the same crowd who complains about the US being told what to do by a world court should sell us out to multi national companies and Asian markets!
S&P and the other rating agencies are not the kingmakers yet but they are definitely the bubble makers. Byron Georgiou pretty much said so, but stop short of calling it fraud. Since they are the creators of the investment bubbles therefore it is only ‘they’ who know when to get in or out of something. For they are the ones who help create the group think that is Wall Street.
Agreed! Thanks so much to them both.
I am more surprised at how open they are in these manipulations .now. They are calling in their chips establishing their ownership of the country and its government.
I am speechless and frightened.
We must be using the same tin foil! (my thoughs as well)
I waited to comment until I heard the pathetic WH press secretary carnival side-show barker (carny Carney). He offered nothing, except possibly a cold shower for Clyburn and other Dems who are hoping Obama will use the “14th amendment power,” whatever that is, to raise the debt ceiling himself. (I know, I know, I will post that link over on that other thread.)
This is a hot potato, thanks very much to Jane for turning up the heat on S&P. I would love to see the SEC take enforcement action. SEC often begins enforcement by opening a preliminary inquiry which the target can insist remain confidential, so it’s possible SEC has already “inquired” of S&P wtf they think they are doing meddling w/national economic survival?
I personally would love to see SEC crush S&P and put it completely out of business.
I read recently that an Obama insider said that new ideas were not welcome in this administration…
You know I think you all may have something there. It would be completely in keeping with Obama’s style and the way he relates to and hides behind others’ power. Recruit a reputed expert to speak for him. — The way he kept defending the handling of the BP oil spill by referring to “Nobel Prize winner.” Chiu.
As you say, if so it is a terribly dangerous game.
I read that, too. It was in the context of Elizabeth Warren’s non-selection and the departure of most of Obama’s original econ advisors. Can’t remember if that was here or elsewhere…
Jane said that “nobody knows what the implications of a downgrade would be, and it has the potential to be absolutely devastating.” But Krugman has already discussed what happened to Japan when their credit rating was reduced. Absolutely jack shit.
“They’re acting as Wall Street’s tasers in Shock Doctrine 2.0, and making themselves the key player in determining what happens not only with the 2012 election but with the world’s economic future.”
So who protects them and gives them their instructions? S&P cant take over the world all by themselves. If it was that easy the pentagon would have done it long ago. Why not just have them killed?
Either the Oligarchy is orchestrating a crash or they are furiously scrambling to position themselves for an immanent crash that they cannot avoid. Either way it’s bug splat time for us proles.
Wouldn’t it be nice if Obama would go on tee vee and tell us what the fuck is going on. Or at least tell us what he knows. But he’s not on our side – is he.
If S&P were a ratings agency – a description it abandoned for bagman when it chose to rate mortgage backed securities AAA – its proper role would be to respond to debt proposals, not to advocate for one or the other.
If Mr. Obama were president, that is, if he were acting as president rather than doing a Rove/Bush and permanently running for the job – he would ask the SEC to have a quiet chat with S&P while checking to see if any SEC lawyers still knew securities law better than election law. If any of Mr. Obama’s agency heads had the slightest authority independent of Mr. Obama’s re-election bid, they would tell him to do the same or, in the case of the head of the SEC, just do it. I don’t think, however, that we’re any longer in that part of Kansas.
We progressives and gopers have got to stop viewing S&P, Goldman Sachs, as some type of aliens from out of space.
At the end of the day S&P is run by people who eat fast food, drink coke sometime, cheat on their spouses.
Corporate Govt. will eventually kill itself, because Corporations serve one purpose to make money at all cost. This one purpose driven belief system will cause Capitalism to fail. “Because it ignores the plight of people, and it goes against ancient teaching, it takes a village to raise a child”
S&P is showing us all how absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Lincoln always knew that corporations could destroy the USG, and he is being proving right.
Clinton, Bush, Obama are just puppets taking orders. Wall Street mascots, who refuse to wear uniforms like race car drivers
Physics tell us, for every force there is a reaction of equal force, this is what we must all prepare for.
The USA always seems to have a revolution every 30 years or, so we are due for one. Some call it a correction.
There is nothing new under the SUN!
The Rich always try to rob the poor, they always make the same mistake,
Once a man or woman has nothing to live for , they usually result to dying for stuff. This is when all hell break loose.
S&P, Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, JP Morgan Chase, all have people who get wet when it rains, get cold in the snow, the people who work for these companies are not Super Human. Some are probably doing drugs, cheating on their spouses, getting drunk, right now!
The USA has only been a World Power for what 60 years?
The USA is a very young nation that has a lot to learn.
The Govt. that our fore fathers left us, did not corrupt itself, we corrupted it.
Rush Limbaugh = freedom of speech? really
Fox news = freedom of speech?really
MSNBC = freedom of speech? Ask Cenk, and KO
NYT = freedom of speech? Ask the people of IRAQ
ABC, NBC, CBS, = freedom of speech? Walter Cronkite is rolling over in his grave right now.
Letting everybody yell fire in the movie theatre is not a good way to run a nation.
Who was the last real USA president? JFK, LBJ? Nixon? who
It was in Elizabeth Drew’s July 19 article (cover date Aug. 18) for NY Review of Books. Don’t have link handy, just plug “New York Review Books Elizabeth Drew” into your favorite search tool.
So pay off S&P to confirm a AAA rating notwithstanding a “technical default”. Why not? It isn’t like they bear any financial risk for making bogus assessments, the “fallout” (meaning “lack thereof”) from the Financial Crisis shows that clearly enough. Bribe ‘em. They’ll “opine” that it’s only a “tecnical” glitch, this is after all the US Government, it will all work out … so, “AAA”. Interest rates stay down, inflation in check, Dow climbs to 16000 — who’s hurt? The only casualty is the charade that these guys have integrity and held in check by a risk of being held responsible, and nobody believes either of those things, anyway. How much could it cost to bribe the finite number of “credit rating gurus” when measured against the impact of threatened robodisasters flowing from a downgrade? ;) And I never emoticonize.
maj (Klingon: “Good!”)
Since corporations are legal constructs of the government. I.E a regulation, why not lobby the state of Delaware to revoke Standard and Poor’s corporate charter? For that matter do it for any so called American corporation that is threatening the security and health of our country.
I challenge any of these so called MOTU to actually make it running a buisness as a sole proprietorship.
I am stealing your name for Obama’s spokesliar’s name, Carney Carney!
Bingo.
You know, that is not a bad idea.
Ruh Roh! Jane’s light bulb lit up!
Nah, Democracy is a verb, it is a state of being.
As far as the debt ceiling goes, if Blankfein, Dimon, Summers, S&P, Moody’s and the IMF are for raising it, I’m against it because in no instance are our my interests coincident with theirs.
US standards of living are going to have to fall for a variety of reasons, we may as well get on with it. The end of the debt dollar will call the question on the safety net versus the perpetual war machine and bank bailouts, better to have that happen at once instead of a ten year bleeding.
When the debt dollar becomes like most other currencies, then there will be tremendous flexibility in how currency works domestically, while the value of the dollar in global exchange will be based on the value of the goods and services the US produces, as in not much, so imports will become expensive and foreign wars prohibitively so.
The Party is over no matter what. I say let’s take the bank and military vampires down with it.
-marc
No private entity should have the power to bring down a president with an arbitrary and unjustifiable wave of the hand.
Like the CIA-backed coups of democratically elected presidents such as Allende, Goulard, and Aristide?
No company should be able to line up a nation’s assets and orchestrate a fire sale on behalf of Wall Street, and then give them a private showing about what’s in store.
Like in Iraq?
They should not have the right demand cuts that destroy critical social safety net programs that the public overwhelmingly supports
My, practically the whole of the 3rd world during the 90s.
The empire is crumbling.
Ditto.
TruthandJustice, a great point.
Are there any descriptions of domestic terrorism that would help create the argument further?