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I’m sure we’ll be told that this is all because there is some deep, innate psychological flaw with purity troll, emo DFHs that causes them to attack other liberals.
The Post-ABC poll found that the number of liberal Democrats who strongly support Obama’s record on jobs plunged 22 points from 53 percent last year to 31 percent. The number of African Americans who believe the president’s actions have helped the economy has dropped from 77 percent in October to just over half of those surveyed.
Unless President Obama changes course — but quick — what this means is: President Romney.
David Axelrod simply cannot dig up enough “independents” or “centrists” that will be reward Obama for being “the adult in the room” to compensate for a 69% disapproval in the Democratic base. And a 50% approval among African Americans? Staggering.
Bizarrely, the White House has been running the anti-Rove playbook since the before the 2010 midterms: screw your base and try to appeal to everyone else. How’s that working out for you, Plouffe?
Meanwhile, Republicans are still running the Rove playbook and though they’re taking a beating in the polls, they’re winning the negotiation, which is further alienating Obama’s base.
Good luck in 2012 without your base, Mr. President.
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Seriously, Karl Rove is an amoral S.O.B., but he knows how to win. You can’t copy his blatantly illegal campaign tactics, but some of the basic stuff is adaptable.
Instead, Obama’s gang pleased Karl by appointing an economic team he approved of, but have ignored everything he showed them about winning votes. Bizarre behavior for people who supposedly want to get re-elected.
Romney?
Ok . . . lemme offer another fearful scenario.
Obama tanks so bad (on purpose cuz he’s dismantling social service programs and instilling the Super Committee) that the Dims tell him to step aside.
HRC is the nominee.
N the GOP runs out Jeb Bush.of
Winner: Jeb Bush.
N he finishes the dismantling job us all with the Super Committee.
Corporate driven top to bottom.
Popcorn with butter, garlic n some asagio cheese, perhaps?
;-)
In spite of all the trappings of power, and oppression a failure to understand the people will undo the regime.of any leader, whether autocrat, dictator or elected president. He is in over his head.
50% unemployment for African-American males in Harlem!!! Did they poll millionaires and billionaires. Surely President Bamboozle’s approvals would be higher for this demographic.
If the debt ceiling circus is to be revisited again before election season next year, Prez Romney is in.
As far as I can see, that might be good news if we can find a way to foil the Catfud Commish II. Romney will never be able to do the damage O has the potential to complete.
Boy in the Bubble has done dropped the Ball.
Re eletion is a myth, the reality is furtherence of corporate stranglehold on we the people.
Witness the Super Committee and what its intent is, the utter destruction of FDR/LBJ and the rest of us . . . eradication of middle class power and wealth.
It’s getting FAR uglier than you realize or suggest in yer comment IMHO.
;-)
It has to collapse of its own volition, all empires do as history proves.
It’s not JUST Obama, it’s the whole structure we live under.
It HAS to collapse upon itself, sooner or later.
I really doubt it. Romney is terrible on the stump and won’t bring out the rubes. Even whatever hate legislation the GOP puts up for their GOTV (unwed-mothers-in-public-stocks is the 2012 offering, I believe) won’t pull in as many as usual, Mitt belonging to a bizarre cult and all…
Will Obama retire to a lavish palace in Indonesia?
Obama knows all this, which is why he’s raising $1 Billion for his (to be very poorly run) 2012 election campaign.
He spends as little of the $1 Billion as possible to be a credible candidate, and pockets the balance.
Re-elected or not next year, Obama wins.
You and I? Not so much.
Half a Billion of more free-and-clear in the Bank? Nice reward for a few years effort.
Eleventy-seven dimensional chess “Check mate!” Match, Set and Game to Obama.
Obama the First African American President is at 50% with African Americans just how will O spin that?
I bet a bunch of GOPers who claimed that African Americans only supported Obama based on his race and Liberals voted for him because of guilt are going to admit they were wrong?/s
Romney will make a trillion dollars selling us off to China after he has the entire country unemployed.
Well, he’s not a Liberal and an “African-American Activist” in name only so what does he care. He wants the disaffected “moderate” Republican vote because that’s what he is.
I thought the term was emogressives coined by the 20 something Balloon Juice acolytes.
An interesting poll comparison would be how many Dems disapprove of Obama but like still like him better than the GOP.
The GOP thinks its an either or choice if Obama does bad that does not mean they are not doing worse.
If Michelle and Sarah are not on the ticket the GOP base stays home. If they are on the ticket the GOP loses Moderate voters since tax cuts for the rich paid for with my SS and Medicare still does not get anyone a job.
So any word on how the WH will spin this? At these numbers Obama will lose his home state of Illinois and might even lose Chicago.
Apparently, “base” to President Obama refers to the bottom of his shoes.
True. Rove is an ass, but he’s a good political strategist. He won several election cycles by keeping the base happy and engaged, then going for the independents. Obama is doing the opposite. Obama is also aggressively alienating the base, which is beyond bizarre.
Obama isn’t going to win strictly with independents and moderates. And besides, many of those independents are on Social Security, and aren’t going to take too kindly to Obama slashing it.
Obama’s political team is comprised of idiots.
In a word…yes.
Whoopty doo! Preznint Romney. I’d like some Veep Bachmann with my order, please…
I blame that Hamsher woman :D
Glenn Greenwald today ,
Obama and the Left: a problem for the WH?
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/index.html
What is the difference between Obama and Romney?
Anyone?
I think Obama will drop out of the race and I think he knows it. Along about October of next year, if he has not already been forced to resign, he will abandon his quest for a second term because everybody hates him. With no time for primaries, party insiders will draft Hillary at a convention overshadowed by bloody riots.
Put aside some canned goods and keep your your head down folks.
Ironic. I think we are looking to a future much like Russia’s since the breakup of the communist union.
He stole Florida the first time and Ohio for Bush’s reelection cheating does not make you a winner in my book.
Fine Bush did win thats all that matters? Well the habit of cheating involves shortcuts and laziness like what happened in New Orleans, our losing 2 wars, bush trying to privatize SS right before the banking Crisis until Obama came to office Bush was a shoe in for Worse President ever.
Who wants to remembered as the man who got the worse president ever elected.
I don’t think the GOP base will stay home if Sarah or Michele aren’t on the ticket. Also I don’t think that Romney will not be able to get the “rubes” out.
Why? Because Wall Street runs the GOP *and* the Tea Party. Through their pawns, the Tea Party national organizations, FOX News, Rush, Glenn Beck, and the National Religious Right organizations they will fire up their base and get the “rubes” out.
The repubs know that Obummer has the roar of a weak starving kitten. All they must do is want and he caves like a hole in sand. His ability to screw over the people while acting like he is concerned will place him ahead of dubya in history as the biggest idiot ever elected. He has denied the will of the people for his own egotistical satisfaction. His inability to distinguish between right and wrong will destroy this country. We only have the dems in congress to defend us, can we trust them?
Jane has pointed out again and again, both here and on the teevee that the oligarchs are definitely working from that playbook
That isn’t entirely true. The Democrats have 22 seats they are defending(I’m not including Lieberman in that number.) The GOP has 11(with Lieberman’s seat.) The composition right now is 52 to 48. There is a very real threat that we lose the Senate to the GOP. We’re a minority in the House. Romney could do damage particularly if the idiots in the House are retained as majority party.
That being said we’re in for a tough road either way.
Obama is hell bent on austerity that every honest economist insist will dump us into a double dip recession (if not full blown depression.)
Obama will be unelectable by next summer.
I guess the Firebagger population is bigger than we thought.
And just wait til the austerity agenda combined with, possibly, SS, Medicare and Medicaid cuts takes effect. I bet that really will do wonders for the approval numbers.
If Obama had any integrity at all, he just wouldn’t run for re-election.
Unless Obama stops acting like de facto President Romney, we’ll get bona fide President Romney.
Any thoughts on a timeline for that scenario?
“Put aside some canned goods”
Catfood?
not really, as I am unsure of Jane’s source(s) but sure looks to me like Messrs Rubin et al are in a hurry
It can happen sooner if we give it a shove.
I read somewhere, maybe liberaldem said it, they’ve done polling and they don’t think the left is their base, and the centrist authoritarians like it when he kicks the left or the poor until they’re screaming.
I don’t see anything on the horizon that will prevent Romney being elected in a landslide. I predict that Perry will be his VP.
Joan McCarter at DKos Washington Post poll: Everything Americans favor is off the table in debt talks
She quotes Sargent:
For all those worrying about the Catfood Commission II, know that catfood has gotten too expensive to be a food substitute.
On polling, check back when it matters–in January. There is a lot that is going to change one way or the other before then.
BTW, expect to say hello to Speaker Cantor soon.
No, I can’t agree…we liberals/progressives are not happy with some of the stances the President has taken but we are going to vote for him. What, do you think we are going to support a Romney? He couldn’t even create jobs in a better economy just like Bush couldn’t! Those of us who are rational about politics understand the President was never a liberal and is certainly a centrist in his outlook. It is just that the right is so far to the wacky right now that not even Ronald Reagan could survive a Republican primary with William Buckley as his running mate!
I think you might be right about the GOP team, but Romney is going to have to win a lot of unlikely states before then. And I don’t think they would give another Texas governor top billing so soon after the W disaster. It seems that Bachmann has glittered out.
Obama is not in the center – that I could probably live with. He’s a dyed in the wool Republican to the bone and he is destroying our country. I’m really pissed off and I won’t vote for him because of the Supremes or anything else.
No one has slashed anything so far..much less the President. ANY Republican plan at this point does far more to destroy the Democratic big 3 than the rope-a-dope the President has dangled out there. But Boehner can’t deliver the votes for anything rational so this thing is going down in flames…get to cash if you can.
Nah, Twain..you just want him to be a progressive and he isn’t…look, if you sit this out you contribute to what the GOPs want from us..we have to consider what they would do if they control all three branches..that’s unacceptable!
“WE” are NOT gonna vote for him, so speak for youself. If we continue to vote for Dems and Repubs for president, they will continue to give us turd sandwiches. We have to vote independent to make an impact.
Twain..you want him to be progressive and he’s not..I wish he were also but he isn’t and couldn’t have been elected as such. But the alternative? To sit this out and have the GOP/tea baggers control the House and the Senate and the Presidency? Unacceptable! Come on, man! Consider that horror..
You may vote for him, TE, that is your “right”.
It is not “stances”. It is the destruction of the rule of law, by NOT holding torturers and fraudsters to account, the continuation of ruinous, endless war, the secret use of drones and the hiding of things that the people have every right to know about… because those things are being done in our names, your and mine.
I shall NOT vote for Obama … nor any other dem who willingly destroys Social Security and supports the notion of a “Super Congress” comprised of twelve people who may ram any legislation, which THEY and they alone, choose, through, Congress … allowing all other Senators and Congress- people only an up or down vote.
Vote for Obama if you wish, however, you enable the destruction of civil and democratic society if you do so.
DW
“HRC is the nominee.”
Why do all those with buyer’s remorse immediately turn to Hillary?
In case you are not on her mailing list, Hillary cannot even raise enough money to pay off her debt from the last campaign. There is not a chance she will be able to raise enough money for another.
It is extremely wishful thinking to imagine that Bill’s wife is not beholden to the same MOTU as Bill and Obama.
Supposed to in response to TEHelms @ 46
Look, if you vote to re-elect a man that is known for assassinating American citizens with no due process, torturing innocent American citizens (Manning), and ending habeas corpus, then YOU own those policies too as you are enabling them by condoning them with your vote. And this is unacceptable.
In my humble opinion, after Bush, someone as progressive as George Carlin could have been elected president.
Just so we are sure what “collapse” means. The collapse of the American financial system and economy (well, we are halfway there) means the collapse of the global financial system anchored in the World Bank and IMF and the collapse of the Eurozone. China loses almost 700 million customers and who knows how much in sales.
The current oligarchs are not guaranteed to become the future oligarchs. Nor are they likely to be as wealthy, powerful, and secure. For the financial collapse also undermines the ability to mount and mobilize militaries. And those who seize what of that equipment they can will be in the competition to be the new oligarchs.
Any people rising up will be just a sideshow to the main event of changing from one oligarchy to another and possibly back again.
That’s more real a possibility than I would have thought in 1999.
Amazing how many are unable to grasp the truth of your last sentence, Coach Bill.
DW
I hope I’m very wrong about this but ever since I read this I keep thinking perhaps the reason Obama has been emboldened to cut Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid is that public attention will soon quickly be shifted to Iran.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/cvn-77-ghw-bush-enters-persian-gulf-cia-veteran-robert-baer-predicts-september-israel-iran-w
Three carriers in proximity to Iran.
The G.H.W. Bush has just entered the Persian Gulf,( the first time a US aircraft carrier has passed through the Straits of Hormuz in months).
What is also notable is that the LHD 5 Bataan amphibious warfare ship has just weighed anchor right next to Libya (this is odd since the coast of Tripoli had been left unattended for many weeks by US attack ships )
And topping it all off is that a third aircraft carrier, the CVN 73, is sailing west from the South China seas, potentially with a target next to CVN 76 Ronald Reagan which is the second carrier in the Straits of Hormuz area.
Robert Baer:
There is almost near certainty that Netanyahu is planning an attack [on Iran] … and it will probably be in September before the vote on a Palestinian state. And he is also hoping to draw the United States into the conflic, Baer explained. For the betting public out there, an September CL call may not be the dumbest trade possible…”
The will of the people would dismiss the House entirely so why isn’t that happening? You seem to think the President can waive a magic wand and get them to vote for what the people want? How exactly does that work? The only way this gets better is to vote out Republican/tea baggers or have this thing crash and have their constitutents tell them the consequences are theirs. Truly frightening.
What about leaving Obummer’s fate in the hands of the ones he’s kissing ass with and working to elect as many dems in congress as possible. Cutting SS is going to lose a lot of support for the repubs from their own party.
And would have faced the same self-important assholes in Congress.
But Carlin would have been funnier.
DW it is all about who is running, right? You think “who” would be better? Bachmann? T-Paw? Perry? Come on, DW…
“…we’ll get bona fide President Romney.”
I’d rather face the wolf than the wolf in sheep’s clothing. At least I’d have no delusions.
Just want him to do what he said he would during the campaign. He has the responsibility to not be a liar. That’s all.
We will all be firebaggers soon
An aircraft carrier group is also explained by the final drawdown of troops from Iraq.
And there is the coming vote on Palestinian independence and recognition by the UN.
It is not the people who seek this collapse it is the MOTU, and their political enablers, TD, BOTH (hah!) parties … the ONLY thing which may prevent this collapse, if its members of the party your handle mentions, find the courage, both the political elite AND the remaining “base”, to admit the truth and insist upon change … otherwise we are simply along for the ride.
Frankly, if we fuck around long enough, it won’t matter because planet earth will simply no longer be able, owing to our destructions, to support human life.
THAT is the very real and hard truth.
It is NOT an intellectual game or even a neofeudal economic reality which we face, but the extiction of our species, by or at our own hands, one way or another.
Period.
DW
The Religious Fundi Wing of the GOP wants someone who speaks to them emotionally and gives them red hot hate. Mitt and all the other Corporate Wing of the GOP candidates cannot bring in the crowds.
You can have a great tv ad campaign for a kids cereal but in the end if the kids don’t like the cereal it won’t sell.
Right now though I doubt even Sarah or Michelle can sell cutting SS and Medicare to the Fundies unless they really really start blaming Dark people, Gays and the Left.
But even then its hard to see even the Fundies fall for that as we fight 2 wars and the rich get another tax cut.I admit Obama can win because he is seen as less nuts than the GOP candidates and that includes Mitt and all the other Corporate GOPers.
The best way you can ensure the Democratic Party NEVER listens to you is to always vote for it. Absolutely guaranteed they will NEVER work for you then. WHy should they??? They’ve already got your votes.
Your choice. You want them to start listening and working for you??? Don’t vote for them when they act like this. You don’t care if they if they ignore your desires and govern to the benefit of others??? Then go right ahead and vote for Obama next year.
Choice is yours.
And what sort of Congress would Romney bring with him?
Folks to keep him on the straight-and-narrow Teahadist path.
I don’t like some things that have been done by this justice department and would like to see a number of Bushies in jail..(I can make list)..but, I also have to accept that would have thrown the country into a worse tailspin than it is now. Funny you state the President breaking the law but Manning did as well. And as for him being tortured..well, nothing to prove that but he is being treated like a criminal, which he is. I also held a top secret/cosmo/cryptic clearance and you have to take that stuff seriously because you are also told what the consequences of not doing so are. Manning knew what he did was against his oath of service. I don’t agree with what he did but I do understand why he did it.
Crap and I thought I was a pessimist your theory is speculation but I can’t argue its possible and might be likely if the Dems lose this november.
All including Obama, whose behavior I have described honestly to you, are running this nation and society into the ground.
If you can support a candidate, a man, who does the things I have described, than you, TE, “own” the result, as has been said upthreacd.
TE?
DW
Who’s the we? This liberal disapproves of BO and will vote for a Green candidate. I’m not gonna vote for the repub of either dim or repub parties!
I’m guessing more will just sit out the presidential race.
Hard to do Twain when the Repubs #1 goal is to make sure you fail. It is much easier to obstruct than to construct. Look, if the President loses this election we will likely be much worse off. I’m a year away from SS and have parents on both SS and Medicare. But, having said that, we have to make changes to the system that will help make them sustainable. SS is easy and Medicare/Medicaid is hard. We just don’t want to do it the GOP way since that is not reasonable.
3 aircraft carrier groups soon to be off Iran’s coast shit O wants to wag the dog.
Until it is proven, in a legitimate court of law, that Manning did, in fact, break the law, then you, as well as Obama, who should KNOW better, have dispensed with the concept of “innocent until proven guilty”.
Do you understand that, TE?
More importantly, do you care?
DW
I’m sorry but I just don’t see HOW throwing Bush/Cheney et al. in jail would have thrown the country into a tailspin. Can you explain how that would have happened, please?
Funny you claim Manning is a criminal when he hasn’t ever been convicted of anything yet.
Funny how so many folks no longer believe in that old quaint AMERCICAN ideal of INNOCENT until proven guilty. Which means, for someone that hasn’t been proven guilty, is INNOCENT. Or, according to you, a CRIMINAL.
And funny too how you didn’t address the fact that you will be supporting assassinating American citizens with no due process, continuing rendition and torture, and ending habeas corpus. Those are all KNOWN and publicly held positions of this administration.
So, you vote for them, you condone them, you enable them, and you OWN them.
Wear them proudly.
DW..this is a process..when we can see things going off a cliff..like the failure to raise the debt ceiling and making SS and Medicare voucher system, we need to resist that. But we will survive this..a little worse for ware, I’m sure. But to give up and have GOPs in all three branches? No..that would be disaster.
Yes, we have to make changes – not cuts, not chained CPI, but changes like raising the cap for social security funding. I did not hear that mentioned by any Democrats recently, have you?
Republican and Democratic math is (sadly) totally different. With 41 seats,
Repugs tie up the Senate,but the Democrats need 51 seats to do that
(Actually,quite a few more,due to Blue Dog defections)
Until the Sen Dems get some bal.s,this math isn’t going to change.
I’m also very interested in that, RO, and surprised that Sunstein’s maxim of not “criminalizing policy difference” is not sufficient to end TE’s concern about Bush administration TORTURE, for that is what happened, as well as being lied into war …
Ah, well …
DW
Another poll from the corporate overlords to get the tribalist all in a lather and misdirected. By the time the super bowl rolls around, the corporate polls will have it going the other way.
I know how the system works..believe me, please. Mr Manning will be in Levenworth for a long time. I hope he has good military counsel because they have him dead to rights here. This isn’t civilian and won’t be argued in anything like the same way. The trail will be very clear. He isn’t Daniel Ellsberg.
You actually believe that there is a difference, a real difference between the R’s and the D’s?
And please, no lesser evil, palaver, TE.
Specifics.
DO you imagine, for instance, that destroying the New Deal is a wise thing for the D’s?
DW
You would obviously had to prosecute them and that would have created a politican firestorm from the right. Nothing would have been done for years other than working through that process. Can you see that combined with this Bush recession? Can you imagine anything having been passed through a Congress at war with each other worse than over the AHCA? Suicidal for the welfare of the country, RO.
“How exactly does that work? The only way this gets better is to vote out Republican/tea baggers”
Yeah, that worked so well in 2008 – we got the extension of the Bush tax cuts, the nationalization of Romneycare, etc. The way it gets better is to vote out Lesser Evilism regardless of party affiliation.
No I haven’t RO but it should be. Like I say..SS is easy..well, from our veiwpoint anyway..but Medicare/Medicaid is hard because it is so complex.
So you think Manning guilty?
Without the benefit of trial?
Are you not interested in the facts?
Or do you imagine that you knowe them already?
You avoid too many morally important principles, and too many serious questions asked of you as well TE, so I am certain that Obama’s behaviors and that of his party, your party, do not bother or MUCH concern you.
DW
(Got any more talking points you feel the need to get off your chest?)
The Bush tax cuts will expire on their own because they were passed under reconciliation..they couldn’t get a majority. The Affordable Health Care Act has many good features and it is complex. We should have gone to single payer but that was never going to pass.
“Good luck in 2012….with no base…”
Good stuff, Tex. This is what we need to be talking about.
Staying the course with this guy is a prescription for a worse ass-kicking than we got at the mid-terms.
I also agree that Romney is the heir-apparent. Palin-Bachmann-Perry will make him look like a thoughtful, judicious, candidate who will pick up most of the independent vote.
I don’t think Obama gives enough of a shit to even be bothered by being a one-termer, and if HE’s not, why should we be?
RUBBISH!
The rule of law either exists or it does not.
The same applies to genuine democracy.
DW
Some have seem to forgotten that the Dims had control of the House and Senate since 2006-2010. I am sure glad they were there to stop Bush from continuing his crimes against humanity./s
Yeah..DW, I do..I have been there.
“and please, no lesser evil palaver…”
I don’t think Tex would stoop to that. However, it’s the house mantra, over at Digby’s…except, it’s not playing too well over there, anymore.
:o)
“I also have to accept that would have thrown the country into a worse tailspin than it is now.”
No you don’t.
“And as for him being tortured..well, nothing to prove that but he is being treated like a criminal, which he is.”
So you think people should be treated like criminals even though they haven’t been tried or convicted…punishment first, trial later,eh?
Certainly it exists, DW…but it isn’t always applied in the real world.
So you have tried Manning and found him guilty? How unAmerican of you.
Have you seen anything pass through congress any way? At least it would have enforced the rule of law and been a cleaning for the country. I do not hold your view on this at all.
From the man himself, whose “been in those rooms” Lawrence O’Donnell.
To put this in perspective:
On election day 2008, I worked as an election observer in a working-class black neighborhood of a large eastern city. When I arrived, a half-hour before the polls opened, a line was starting for form outside the polling place and, by a half-hour after they opened, the line was well over a block long. There were 800 voters registered to vote in that polling place. Of that number, 640 actually appeared and voted. There was one Asian-American woman who voted; all the others were African-American. Little kids were coming up to cadge our Obama credential tags and buttons.
The results of the election (I checked later):
Obama 633
McCain 7.
Going down to 50 percent A-A approval, you’ve lost a lot of votes, Barry. And you have no one to blame for it but yourself.
Good one, OFG!
“The Bush tax cuts will expire on their own because they were passed under reconciliation..they couldn’t get a majority”
You are dodging as this happened under a Democratic Congress and a Democratic President. The Democrats could have let them expire, but they instead extended them.
That “silence from the Left” people have been noting?
It’s the sound of backs turning and the Left going back to their homes. The Left does have somewhere to go, and they are leaving for it.
And my point is that the MOTU will not be able to control the collapse. Did I say already that the US has the stupidest elites in the world.
Yep. Both parties. Both are indeed captive. It’s what the health care reform process showed transparently. Before we had only rumors.
But good news DWBartoo, the rate of heating of the planet has been lowered by a third because of — [drum roll] — air pollution in the stratosphere. Aren’t we lucky?
It is indeed not an intellectual game although it takes intellect to figure out exactly how to persuade enough people to affect change. All those cats will never line up in the same direction. And time is very short. At the beginning of the 1990s on PBS, James Burke (the Connections guy) did a series on global warming. His scenario was that we rocked along in denial until a series of massive calamities in 2015. And then the international community, US kicking and screaming, led by Japan created a global environmental authority headquartered in Japan. Well, if we survive 2012,….
BTW, the Dem in TarheelDem does not affiliate me with the Democratic Party, national or otherwise. They haven’t gotten a dime from me since the Democratic caucus caved on the extension of the PATRIOT ACT in 2007. I am a small-d democrat. Which means that I believe that while the understanding that people have of the issues is a huge problem (I keep talking about the multi-billion-dollar media disinformation campaign that runs out to every rural hamlet 7/24/365), the people themselves are not the problem. And that people power (not elite power or Presidential power) beat money power every time there is an honest contest of policies. Which explains why Paul Weyrich didn’t believe in good government and why there is a multi-billion-dollar media campaign and election year media carpet bombing in the first place.
The few elected officials who understand this situation are still at a loss to figure out how to avoid making media buys and giving money to their opponents. The big-D Democratic Party though is still trying to play the media an consultant game. It’s just another element of Beltway welfare.
And my beef is that too many progressives get caught up in wanting play that media game too. Guess what? The low-information voters that shun both the Wurlitzer and the talk shows, never hear those media appearances. It’s all an inside conversation. Never see a political blog. Rarely see a Facebook post about politics.
We have a serious intra-grassroots communications problem about how to get people involved in the political process in any way, shape, or form — in the streets, in elections, in conversation about principles and policy. Changing that could change American politics, but we are focused on the idiocy that goes on in Washington. And fixated on that … You finish the sentence with what my wingnut friends and coworkers call the President.
The state legislatures are more important than the Congress next year. The Congressional elections are more important than the Presidential election. It doesn’t matter who the President is (except for foreign policy) but the Congress is the limiting or driving factor. President Romney with FDR’s 1934 Congress would be closer to the New Deal than FDR with the current Congress. I didn’t think in 2008 that we were electing a dictator. And Kay Hagan has been a bigger disappointment to me than Barack Obama.
Yes..and further killed the middle class and put the economy into more of a funk..situational move in this case.
Excellent thoughts! (I am a proud tarheel myself although not living there right now) The congressional races are extremely important just like you state.
Okay, is anyone besides me sick and tired of hearing attacking the weak, old and sick being called “adult”. I’m sorry but beating up on those least able to stand up for themselves is not adult. It is childish and mean. They need to be called “Bullies” because that is what they are.
Telling those who can best fianacially afford to pay more taxes that they have to do so is adult. So let’s all stop calling Obama, Reid, Boehner or any of these “the adults in the room”. That room doesn’t have one adult. We’re all out here working for less than we worked for 10 years ago. Those dipshits in DC are spoiled children who want to keep all their goodies, which were for the most part obtained by cheating the rest of us, to themselves.
So now you’re spreading the right wing myth that the Bush tax cuts are good for the economy??
Shouldn’t you be out there working for Romney?
I have enjoyed the reparte with you folks. At least we have rational thought here. Go to some of these wingnut sites and you wonder if you could even get out of the room alive! Those folks have escaped from somewhere I don’t ever want to go!
Of course they weren’t OFG! But raising taxes on the middle class at that time would have been terrible. On the rich though? Their incomes are up 350% under the Shrub. Middle class folks aren’t even staying even.
There’s so much wrong here…
First of all, I’ll admit my memory isn’t clear on whether they passed via reconciliation or not, but be that as it may, reconciliation or not, has nothing to do with them expiring on their own.
They would expire at the same point whether they passed through “normal” channels or whether they passed through reconciliation.
And then there’s the doozy about not having a majority……
NOTHING passes without a majority.
Ugh, sorry TEHelms, that was just nitpicking. Not at all fair.
Should never have posted that. Sorry all.
I’m sorry, OFG..I misspoke..a “supermajority”. They passed with 51 votes (Cheney cast the 51st vote). And because of that, they were only good for 10 years. They were extended by two years in order no to raise taxes on the middle class and for some other compromises. But, yes, they will go away if nothing changes, on their own..on everyone.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/30/AR2010073002671.html
I appreciate that..it was very large of you! LOL…
Why bother arguing with this TE dude? I have talked with people from so-called “security” agencies and they have all said the same thing: Manning should be shot. The people in the US gov’t are amoral, folks. They have a distorted view of right and wrong, and that includes Obama.
Manning is a hero. He exposed war crimes.
I didn’t say I disagree with what he exposed..I’m just telling you how it works in there. You may not like it but it isn’t the civilian world and it is serious business. I once dropped a top secret memo in an unsecure area and it was four hours of questioning before I could go back to my work even though someone with a clearance picked it up!
Coach Bill; I think you’re right.
I’ve been saying for a while now, that if Obama’s numbers tank badly enough (low 40′s-high 30′s might do it…) there’s a fair chance that she would bail out of State to run, but I think the negatives for her to do it are just too many and too strong.
The repubs still loathe her, as do a lot of independents. That leaves her needing a huge chunk of the democrats-a big majority-to win, and she just doesn’t have that. Too many of us remember that she decided that getting into bed with the conservatives was the path to victory. I think someone close will tell her that she ort not do it.
And you know who I think it will be?
Bubba. :o)
Yeah, I don’t like it, man. MLK was right. The US gov’t is the biggest purveyor of violence in the world. He was right in 1968 and he’s right now. That’s why they killed him. Anyone in a position of power will be murdered for speaking the truth. In Manning’s case, he did the moral thing. It is the lackeys and support staff of MIC who lack morals. It’s not a matter of what I like, it’s a matter of right and wrong.
And, Manning IS guilty…
Just like Daniel Ellsberg, he’s guilty of real patriotism.
They should release him and leave him to his terrible fate of…being as right as a snake…about the evil shit that the U.S. government is doing.
I can’t agree with your conspiracy theory but your overall thoughts I certainly understand. Speaking truth to power always has and always will be a dangerous undertaking.
You don’t read a lot of emptywheel do you?
TE, the bush tax cuts had a sunset provision they were set to expire anyway. All bo had to do was go golfing. He didn’t have to lift a finger. Since BO proactively restored them, they are now the BO tax cuts.
Conspiracy theory? Dude, come on. You think they were going to let MLK live after he mouthed off about the US military? The MIC and the White House basically told Cenk of the Young Turks to “tone it down” through an intermediary. Please. The CIA and FBI have infiltrated most peace groups in this country and you are telling me they didn’t have a role in MLK’s death? Heck, the FBI was following Ernest Hemingway! Don’t be naive.
“Rules are not necessarily sacred, principles are.”
-Franklin D. Roosevelt
Tex says: “Unless Obama changes course…”
I think it’s too late. The republicans have already dropped him off at the political spay-and-neuter clinic; they can pick him up anytime they want, and he can’t do a damn thing but squeak at them in a high voice.
He couldn’t/didn’t make any real changes when he had one hell of a political hammer. Now that he’s playing with a little rubber “bipartisan” doll, how’s he going to make those changes?
Tribalist focus on rules.
Ellsberg was a civilian and there lies a huge difference. As to content, I don’t know all of it but I’m sure there is stuff there that is harmful and stuff there the government just didn’t want exposed now. Does the government classify stuff we would be better off knowing and having it subjected to the public light? YES!
I don’t know what emptywheel is.
That’s what I said and they were extended and the President made the case why he went along with that. They aren’t permanent and barring another extension, will expire for everyone.
The thing is the American people are blinded by the massive propaganda system in place here. If they really knew what the US has done over the years I think they’d be appalled. Of course, I could be wrong. They didn’t seem to give two shits about US torturing prisoners. But that in itself–the non-caring–is a symtom of massive cultural indoctrination by the schools. People are taught to be savages it seems.
You got that right.
Unfortunately, the goal of the Republican Party is to provide Nordstrom’s-like service to their base. The goal of the Democratic Party, as exemplified by Clinton and, more so, Obama, is to piss on their base. And here we are.
I will never vote for anyone capable of such duplicity. He never said, that “a vote for me is just like voting for Ronald Reagan.” If he would have been honest in the first place he never would’ve received the nomination. I never voted for Reagan and why would I start now?
I’ve gone Post-Liberal now.
I think Obama will dump Biden and disinter his idol, St. Ronald of Reagan, to run as his VP candidate. What difference will one more mindless zombie make in our joke of a government?
In my lifetime (Gen Xer), the liberals have always sucked shit. Can’t remember one thing a liberal has done for the American people, except enrich the rich. Regardless, as I’ve said numerous times before on this site, capitalism is dying a slow, painful death under the American oligarchs. I think it is going to be swift because there is no one to save it. I pray that we will get through it–not the US gov’t–but us, the people of this desperate land.
He may not have said what you put into quotes, but he was very vocal about giving Reagan credit for bringing “stability” to the “chaos” of the 60′s and 70′s. Those terribly chaotic years that resulted in the civil rights that, once enacted, made his presidential campaign possible.
Wow! So nationalized Romneycare is wonderful and the Bush tax cuts saved the economy. Three cheers for Bush and Romney! /s
Yeah, Oilbummer really hates hippies. I wonder what they did to him?
It kinda makes me chuckle that he reads these boards. Must piss the Oily of O to no end.
Nuff said
Manning lived up to his oath to support the Constitution of the USA. What he didn’t swear to was an oath to illegal, unjustified aggression by the MIC. It’s unfortunate that the people who join the armed forces don’t refuse to deploy and kill people who haven’t tried to attack our country, thereby fulfilling their oath. It’s difficult to wage “non-war” (undeclared) without pawns, aka cannon fodder.
a 83 year old man in GA said it best.
the GOP hates OBAMA more than they love the USA
What are OBAMA numbers going to be, now since he thinks cutting Social Security, Medicare, and Medicade are a good idea?
we all know they are going to go a lot lower
now there will be Dems who hate Obama like the tea party does.
Now every Dem in DC and outside of DC has to make a decision do I follow Toxic Man OBAMA over the cliff to political death.
David Plouffe, David Axelrod, Jay Carney, still think cutting Social Security, Medicare, Medicade are political winners for 2012.
i know a lot of DEMS in DC want OBAMA gone, because OBAMA is killing their political careers.
the 83 year old man in GA knows what David Plouffe, David Axelrod, Jar Carney, better learn a black man trying to cut Social Security, Medicare, Medicade is a dead man politically in the USA
Obama losing the black base at such an alarming rate, will cause more and more Dems to push him around, and dump him overboard.
the BEST Dems in the USA are those who hate OBAMA
“this is a fact”
so the DNC has to watch new DEMS attack OBAMA with anger and hate?
this makes the 2012 election very interesting.
you are going to have Dems attacking OBAMA
and GOP candidates attacking OBAMA?
and you think this guy can win a presidential election?
David Plouffe? the biggest moron in DC, can kiss a lot of OFA help good bye!
it will come a day, and it is coming soon, when the Dems must cut OBAMA loose and run, for the hills!
Obama is not the grown up in the room, he is the clown in the room.
men lie
women lie
numbers don’t lie!
The rule of law:
“Certainly it exists, DW … but it isn’t always applied in the real world.”
TE, when it does not exist, “in the real world”, then you have tyranny.
And that, TE, is exactly what we have … and it, tyranny, will become more so.
Your easy, almost cavalier dismissle of the necessity of the rule of law to civil society, TE, is, frankly, appalling and I would urge you, as a person of conscience, to reconsider your position.
DW
‘Twould seem so, John.
Perhaps, someday, if this democracy might be saved or resurrected, TE will come to know of Emptywheel?
DW
Just like December 2010?
You’re missing my point. The point is that some are expecting a Democratic Congress to save them from the horrendous policy positions of a Mitt Romney when the numbers prove the likelihood that ain’t going to happen.
Frankly, I won’t be voting for either and I sure as heck have no faith that either party will do anything other than attempt to act on behalf of their own selfish interests. Not at this point.
I will not follow a lesser-evil voting strategy again in my lifetime. I was a registered Democrat for 42 years before I changed my voter designation to Unaffiliated. President Obama is not the only problem–all the Democrats who have enabled him have been the figurative straw that broke my voting back. Republican horror you say–I say nothing will surpass my horror when I realized I had been lied to by ALL my elected Democratic representatives. I will write in a vote of conscience if no appropriate third-party candidate is on my ballot. I WILL NOT vote for President Obama again, nor will I vote for my congressional reps if they vote to cut SS, Medicare and Medicaid, and I’ve told them so.
I don’t understand. From liberal White America Land, the typical suburb area, I live in one. All of you whine about Obama, okay fine. You seem to forget that Congress is the REAL problem. While Obama can set and push policy, also push members of Congress to act on his behalf, he has chosen time and time again to let Congress sort out the biggest problems in the country.
Its Congress’ actions that bailed out the banks that should have failed. For a fleeting movement in 2008, they actually heard us, but then Wall St. showing US just how much of this Government they DO OWN, cried and said “Look what you did, you made our dow drop to record levels by not passing the bailout”, basically a temper-tantrum by some babies on Wall St. doing God’s work.
That set this ball in motion. Isn’t this the SAME Congress that said if you elect us in 2006 we’ll stop funding the war(s)? How well is that working for you?
But you rather stay home and not vote for Obama? Okay I’ll play your game.
Nothing will change really, they might try some wacky tax plan, it won’t pass the Senate. They’ll try to end some program like SS, it won’t happen, it won’t pass the Senate. So we’ll have at least two years of gridlock, if not more.
They won’t stop the troop withdrawals, but they won’t end any of the wars either.
Libya will continue as well.
I’ll tell you what will happen regardless, is that the country’s credit rating will GO DOWN and the Empire will start to crumble, its already crumbling = 2 TRILLION DOLLARS WORTH OF UPGRADES AND UPDATES ARE NEEDED, its likely HIGHER now.
But nothing will change really, this country is going to fall into the toilet. It can’t have large income equality, high unemployment and three wars without something MAJOR happening.
Re-electing Obama likely means nothing to the final stop this country will make before it falls off the cliff, never to come back.
Racism is at the CORE of much of this nonsense, nobody wants to talk about it but me is seems.
That will happen, most people deny that it will happen. The rich are trying to suck as much money out of the system as they can, so they can buy GOLD. When the US dollar isn’t worth the paper its printed on, the shit will hit the fan when people on EBT won’t be able to buy enough of the food they need because basics prices would have zoomed up by 50%, its already over 10% for most items, don’t think it will get there?
Wanna bet?
Don’t listen to me listen to Micheal Hudson. Its OVER KIDS, the unknown is how hard will the fall be. We’ll still be much bigger and more powerful than say Russia where income equality is EVEN WORST if you can imagine that. It won’t be as BAD as the UK because our Car Companies are in MUCH BETTER SHAPE than theirs were. They were on life support going into the 1970′s.
We’ll end up still larger than most of the economies on earth. What will be different is who calls the shots and it won’t be China. They got their own social-economic problems to deal with.
This will be a good thing, the playing field on a global scale will be leveled, so people won’t be calling us a “Super Duper Power” but just a Powerful Country. Our media empire will still call most of the shots, most of the changes people won’t noticed. You basically just won’t have people screaming were the best, it simply won’t be true.
Won’t matter, I be living in GREEN California or Western Europe so it really just won’t matter. Watch Earth 2100 and there already project to desalinate the salt water in the Pacific for drinking water, clean up the Saltan Sea and some where there will be a mandate to put solar panels on every roof in California.
I can’t say what will happen to the majority of the country, but the middle will suffer the most. Some of it deserved (What’s The Matter With Kansas) some of it not.
You are seeing the end of the Empire.
It’s likely the Democratic Congress would do more to stop Original Flava Mitt Romney than they’re currently doing to stop Blackface Mitt Romney, that’s the point.
And if you think there’s any difference between Romney and Obama, please pass whatever you’re smoking this way.
“Racism is at the CORE of much of this nonsense, nobody wants to talk about it but me is seems”
oh to be 16 again.
Obama being defeated will be great news.
I don’t much care who replaces him.
David Axelrod simply cannot dig up enough “independents” or “centrists” that will be reward Obama for being “the adult in the room” to compensate for a 69% disapproval in the Democratic base.
I am not an Obama fan. But, I am not sure where Blue Texan got these numbers from. Just today’s Obama has 46% approval on Gallup. This is strange. The Democratic base deserves what Obama is going to bring to them. Here is a Democratic president extremely eager to cut SS and medicare. And, he has 46% approval rating. That’s obviously because the Democratic base still seems to think that Obama is their savior. DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT WOULD BE THE APPROVAL RATING OF A REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT WHO WANTS TO INCREASE TAXES ON THE WEALTHY? My guess is that it will be lower than 10%. The Republican base will chew off the head of such a RINO.
But, not the Democratic base. The Democratic base is a bunch of blissfully ignorant people who are never aware of who is harming them and who is helping them.
I’m not voting for Obama. I am not voting Republican either, but I really cannot imagine what a Republican could do that is worse at this point. If a Republican President proposed some of the outright crap that Obama is proposing, we would have voter outrage.
So This Is Despair – William Rivers Pitt
This the problem. There are just too many Obamabots running around.
You might to go back and read the make up of the Senate and figure out who has more people on the chopping block before you assume you’re gonna have a Democratic Congress.
The make up right now is 52 Democrats and 48 Republicans. The Democrats are defending 22 seats. The GOP only 11.
So the Democrats are only guaranteed 30 seats and the GOP has a guarantee of 37 seats before elections. Anything other than that can change come election time. Wanna tell me again how I’m the one smoking something?
Your assuming the Democratic majority or minority will save you from the bad policy of either of the douchebags running for President. I’m just pointing out that you may very well be looking at a Republican Congress to save you from that Republican President or the Democrat who wants to be a Republican President. Good luck with that.
Our country is looking at a rough 4 years no matter how the Presidency pans out. My suggestion is to write in a third party. At least then you might scare the pee out of the oligarchs that bought and paid for the two current parties in power.
Poor Obama he’s so powerless. That mean, mean Congress is just running all over him.
Okay I’m done laughing.
As for racism charges, I imagine you should run right over to the Black Agenda Report and tell them they’re a bunch of racists for not supporting Barack. Sometimes it isn’t about color, someimes it’s about policy.
indeed. let’s be strong, lock arms, and just do this.
dude, calling us racists isn’t going to help your argument. People who are not racists really hate that.
The racism charge. God. That’s what the remaining Obama supporters have left. How pathetic.
I’ve been called it myself already a few times on twitter by some crazy asshole who calls herself AngryBlackLady.
I would have thought that my complete opposition to every war we’ve waged on brown people, including the ones Obama is waging on brown people overseas, and including the one that’s been waged against brown people in this country for 30 years otherwise known as the War On Drugs, would have inoculated me against the RACIST charge.
But when you’re desperate to defend the indefensible, you’ll use any insult in the bag.
Your on a roll tonight. :)