All the more reason for us little people to stop buying corporate crap! Why should we throw our last few dollars at the corporations that are trying to kill us through Economic Terrorism?

two color televisions, cable or satellite TV, a DVD player, and a VCR. If there were children, especially boys, in the home, the family had a game system, such as an Xbox or a PlayStation

The poor apparently have a lot of down time.

The Heritage Foundation will be right up against the wall next to the marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation.

The message is clear here. Stop gripping already your better off then every Bantu tribesmen and Amazon tribal native on the planet. STFU already were tired of hearing about poverty its distressing, especially when we need more and MORE and even MORE. Hey, give me that used XBox bitch! Now!

The Heritage Foundation is an anti-American terrorist propaganda organization.

Let ‘em eat pong…

And they have cooties, too. :-)

And a bulletin on the debt-ceiling talks…

How dare the poor take advantage of decades old innovations that can be bought at second-hand retailers for nearly nothing! It is shameful that they would dare to try taking advantage of technologies the rest of us take for granted and couldn’t imagine living without.

Obviously the only “true” poor are living in tents and cooking road-kill over an open fire.

As goes X-Box, so goes the nation. Can’t believe the insanity in this country. I don’t know how much more of this I can tolerate before pitching a tent in Pago-Pago.

Air conditioner, tv, xbox are all a one time expense, under $100 or $200.

Rent, mortgage, food are relentless and recurring and often rising in cost when wages have dropped, disappeared, or gone stagnant.

Cars are a necessity outside of cities with public transportation to get to work, and the food.

I love it. Great impersonation of Eric “the idiot” Cantor.

Sorry BT. I found this via Mr. Gazoogle;

Robert Rector is a leading national authority on poverty, the U.S.welfare system and immigration and is a Heritage Foundation Senior Research Fellow.

Fucking guy is a Leading National Authority. Surely he knows better than, professional lefties and fucking retards like us.

Men are from Mars. Women are from Venus. Robert Rectum is from Uranus.

These people see government as having two functions:

1. Security. Both protection of (their) property and enforcement of (their) contracts, and “defense” against anxiety inducers in foreign lands.

2. Charity. This is the part they want to cut out completely to save themselves some tax money. Charity being an optional expense. And of course, they would never provide charity to the unworthy, and any charity they provide must be compensated with appropriate sucking up by the little people, not taxed away at the point of a gun.

Hence the incessant efforts to paint people as unworthy of charity.

To be worthy of charity you must be:

a. in such plight as to move a sociopath to pity, which would not apply to someone who has electricity and a TV, or who has eaten in the last week.

b. be just like them, except for being the victim of a random event. Thus people whose beach homes on barrier islands are wiped out by hurricanes need aid, and banksters need bailouts.

No one at Heritage is an authority of anything except their own farts.

How do you expect the poor to make something of themselves if they don’t have x-box?

Robert Rectum should also note hat 150 years ago, the poor were not allowed to fly.

And here we thought the right wing hated experts. Apparently it’s only the ones they didn;t invent that they hate.

Obviously the only “true” poor are living in tents and cooking road-kill over an open fire.

A TENT??? Boyohboy, you sure want to *coddle* the poor people, you socialist, you.

It’s only “ok” when Poor People – who must be excoriated for having the NERVE to be poor – live in cardboard boxes the find somewhere, and even then, they should bow, scrape & grovel at anyone with a job…. /s

And my wife and I have a 5 y/o 42″ plasma TV, a 6 y/o laptop, a new PC (cause the old one blew up and I plunked down $400 for the replacement) a home theater DVD system, a 6 y/o Pontiac, an original playstation that sits in the cupboard, an income of about $85K per and we think we live comfortably. So, are we rich-poor, or poor-rich? Who cares…

This is rediculous. An X-box suggests you’re not poor? Puleeze…

Er, stove and microwave? Not nearly as important as a washing machine in terms of quality of life. You can still cook a meal over a flame in an hour. Try getting your laundry done by hand. A full day was once reserved for *that* chore. How many poor folks have a functioning washer and dryer in their shacks?

I guess no one asked the women at Heritage what’s what of household appliances. Prolly cause they’re all at home washing up those tighty whiteys.

Look at his picture. He does look like a fart expert.

A TENT??? Boyohboy, you sure want to *coddle* the poor people, you socialist, you.

Cue Monty Python’s “Four Yorkshiremen” sketch.

“We used to DREAM of living in a corridor!”

Just tells you that the “Welfare Queen” lie is alive and well after 30 years.

Hear! Hear! Heritage should absolutely be portrayed as the traitorist organization it is.

Everything old is new again. The is the newest version of the “welfare queen” meme the right wing non-think tank comes up with every few years. This crap goes back to the 60′s. This is nothing more than an attempt to criminalize the condition of poverty and in effect being a minority. The well to do, take from these propaganda pieces the belief that poverty is something that people bring upon themselves and the rich are rich by virtue of their sound judgement.

This is how the fascist explain away their cruelty.

My thoughts exactly.

In the very very early days of Obama’s Presidency, he & Michelle served some food at food pantry. Someone took a photo of a person being served at that food pantry. That person (being served) happened to have a cell phone & was taking a picture of Michelle Obama with it.

Rightwingers went *reliably NUTS* bc said teh poorz person had the effrontery to have a cell phone. Of course, notwithstanding the fact that one may purchase single use cell phones cheaply these days; not to mention that IF you want someone to, oh I dunno, get a job, then the person has to be “contactable” in some way.

But conservatives went NUTS foaming at the mouth in their hatred of poor people everywhere & endlessly victimizing themselves… how *dare* that poor person have a cell phone???????????

There’s no end to this kind of bullshit. Sad to say, far too many citizens lap it up like the Kool Aid it is. Racist, bigoted, misleading, nastily undermining… Bastards! PTOUI!!!

Ah, but is there food in those refrigerators? Or electricity or gas to run those game systems and stoves?
Let them eat cake mf’ers.

This is how the fascist explain away their cruelty.

Yep, and demonstrate to others how to do it, just like they do in some “prosperity Xtian Churches” where the flock in indoctrinated to “believe” that poor people deserve their fate bc their faith isn’t strong enough, etc.

Sorry to go a bit OT but I saw this in the local paper yesterday and have been anxious to share it –
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/art-taxpayer-funded-exhibit-equates-republican-govs-with-nazism/

Xbox must be an expensive piece of stuff,eh?

heh… ah yes: cue the Monty Python sketch. We certainly need it for some light relief from these degraded mofos…

Well said. I 2nd that.

How do you spell tighty whities anyway? Tighty whiteys? I’ll have to call Heritage…

Yes, having an Xbox is the same as having a trust fund or an offshore tax shelter.

They really want to push this Class Warfare into the streets don’t they?

I mean, seriously people! Now they are using a product to measure wealth. This is beyond stupid and has entered into the brain function zones!

Well to be honest if we take a view of the whole world as test of poor, there are alot of people in other countries who wish they had a stove in their ‘house’. I think the accumulation of decent tech equipment is a result of everybody in America always have to upgrade to the newest device as soon as it comes on the market, like phones, tvs and other stuff (i had to give away my old box tv just because no one would buy it, these tvs are listed for free on craigslist all the time.) I think the continous updating of appliances and the loads of old, still functioning equipment all leads to lower prices and thus easier accessibility for working class people.

I also think that because ‘poor’ people get paid a decent wage (some times $8 an hour instead of $8 a day) when they do find work that it is easy save up for a new device.

I am not saying that the US does not have poor people in need of help and assistance, but that like the post alludes to, maybe looking at what kind of appliances people have is not the best way to figure out who is poor.

Since what we accept today as commonplace would have been cutting edge science in the 19th century I gather the Heritage Foundation considers the sniveling masses, those, you know, ‘useless eaters’, are given far too much education as well.

I don’t know because I don’t own one. LOL! I guess I am really poor! Do they cost more than my monthly electric bill or my monthly gas tab in the car?

Anyway, I thought that the frickin MOTU *wanted* us serfs to buyBuyBUY… didn’t W *instruct* US citizens to “just go shopping at the mall” after 9/11?? They hypocrisy of this crap is esp galling in a nation which has spent YEARS *demanding* that citizens tap out their credit cards buying stuff… now the victim is blamed once again for doing what they were told to do.

Nonsensical crap.

“And the Devil crows, as he crowed at the start, ‘Sure it’s clever, but is it Art?’”

Truth always hurts. No, sorry, that’s not very specific. Truth always hurts the right wing.

It’s the spirit or principle of the whole thing,

in other words the Ftards at the Heritage Foundation are saying, “how dare poor children or young adults have ANYTHING for fun or recreation! I desperately need another tax cut, and all children over the age of 11 should be out working for below minimum wage http://prospect.org/cs/articles?article=summer_homework_plow_the_field ”

Socialism for the rich, exploitation for the little people.

So The Heritage Foundation’s definition of a “better life” boils down to being in possession of a few requisite consumer items. A strange understanding of quality of life, especially when that quality often declines in proportion to the consumption of these outsourced consumer goods that are engineered for obsolescence. As an example, a little over a generation ago, the average car purchase occurred every ten years. Today, the rate of new car purchases is every three years. So the average car owner is buying three cars over the same time period as they used to buy one. Consume and be exploited. Thanks, Boss.

TV and Xboxes, the new opiate of the masses?

Exactly.

TV and Xboxes, the new opiate of the masses?

“New?”

Yes, correct. Poor children should be chained to their looms in the basement of the factory.

I also think that because ‘poor’ people get paid a decent wage (some times $8 an hour instead of $8 a day) when they do find work that it is easy save up for a new device

Well try living on min wage & see how quickly you can afford XBoxes.

I think I might get your point, but OTOH, this nation totally positioned itself to have citizens *consume* junk like XBoxes in order to keep the money flowing and economy running.

Now that the MOTU have tapped us all out by their nefarious ponzi schemes and other dubious criminal money laundering activities, they are playing the game of “point the finger of blame at the victim.”

If lower income people happen to *own stuff,* it’s mainly bc they’ve been indoctrinated by the same people funding Heritage Foundation to go out out and buy-buy-buy, spend-spend-spend. It’s a hypocritical lying load of crap.

Or if not that, then they should all be in *Debtor’s Prison* with their disgusting parents, etc, etc…

Back n my day we had to make our own tents using possum rectums stitched together using our own pulled out hair! Pitch a Tent. Puh-leaze.

Watch Hardcore Pawn on TruTV to see how the poor struggle to get by. Hocking their clothes, ancient TV’s etc, anything they can sell just to get twenty bucks. It’s very sad, but it can be funny too. Check it out.

One does wonder what the fascist capitalist are thinking? In particular when the whole b.s. system is based on mindless consumption.

Is Possum Rectum any relation to Robert Rectum?

x-box, one way to better yourself.

I doubt he is that evolved.

Why I was so poor, that we just used sticks to dig holes in the ground… that is, when we were lucky enough to have real ground, rather than concrete, to dig holes into…

Don’t you just hate it when one group of people says that another group of people “has enough” and is not deserving of getting any help, or being allowed to amass more at the expense of others?

The gall.

100 years ago there were probably a good number of people without an
indoor toilet in the U.S.! And certainly we know (from Robert Caro’s LBJ books)
that a good part of rural Texas had no electricity and women had stooped
backs by 40 from pulling the water up from the wells! What cavemen people
who make these comments are!

When I wuz-a growin up, we had to make our own ground out of giant rocks we pounded into dust uzin even bigger rocks!

A corridor? You were lucky!

Seriously, my old man’s a Yorkshireman and that is EXACTLY how he goes on.

“You kids don’t know you’re born!”

“I ‘ad t’ stand at dinner table t’ eat”…

LOL! Betting the tightness of Robert Rectum would be less porous and better for protecting against the elements.

Does this mean that all the wealthy children are going to throw out their X-Box systems?

“OMG! Those grummy poor people use those things. We can’t have that in our house! Get rid of it now. Poor people are like Lepars! They should live on their own planet and away from the beautiful people!”

Well I think they are trying to turn us away from mindless consumption bc that *role* has now been “assigned” to the burgeoning middle class in China & India.

The *role* that has been assigned to US citizens is that of third world peon. Try visiting some third world country, and you’ll see what they want us to be like.

This diatribe gives you a clue: no tv, no technology (which, if you don’t have any technology, then you’re really screwed in terms of today’s job market. Even an XBox will give a kid some advantage in terms of learning how to use tech), no fun, live in a mud hut with no running water or electricity, etc.

I’ve lived in conditions just like that in several third world countries. It’s not very easy getting your water from a well that’s a couple of miles down the road and probably is of dubious potability. THAT’s where we’re headed, whether we like it or not.

But… but… where will we get our daily dose of party propaganda without TV?

Giant rocks?? You had GIANT ROCKS??? Why when I was a youngun, we had nothing by tiny bits of stick & gravel, and never enough to pound into anything …!!!

You know they put this shit out there and invariably some numb minded people will believe it and pass it on. It needs to be taken more seriously and challenged rigorously.

The hyperbolic bullshit they are slinging is filled with just the right amount of hatred and bigotry. It will stick to the Tea Party Wall of Stupid like fried egg on a hot skillet.

If you tapped out, starving, and don’t have electricity, then you’re gonna be *grateful* for whatever’s doled out to you…

The Powers That Be will inscribe party propaganda on pieces of wood and send them floating down the river to us.

Try getting your laundry done by hand.

My sister was forced to to just that during the ‘Reagan Recession’ of the early ’80s, when her husband lost his job at Boeing. Not pretty. She also made rag dolls to sell at the local flea market. In the end, she had to move in with my parents with her two children (the husband flew the coop).

Yes. Absolutely. It’s fun to mock it, but it WILL be taken very very seriously esp in hard times like these.

Some citizens, of course, are always on the look-out for scapegoats, esp of minorities and the “other” who must always be *feared.*

How to challenge it effectively?? We’ve been fighting the Cadillac welfare queen meme since the Reagan years. Many conservatives LOVE that image and will fight like blazes to never have to give it up. So *helpful* in terms of making it ok for them to “hate” the “other,” who is, of course, ripping off conservatives.

I would agree with that. Been there and done that as well. The fear factor of just keeping a job is helping to push this even further, with so many people now willing to accept more work for less pay just to stay alive.

That’s horrible. But hey, Morning in America.

LOL!! But only the rich will be permitted to live by rivers & streams, doncha know? At that point, Heritage Foundation will write diatribes excoriating teh poorz if they happen to live close to a body of water…

“looking at what kind of appliances people have is not the best way to figure out who is poor.”

Indeed. Especially because the whole point of the consumer society, as engineered since its inception in the 1930s, has been to make sure every last lower and middle class person is spending a big chunk of their discretionary income on consumer items. Which might not be too bad if folks are getting paid to build the stuff they are consuming.

Quite right. This is a ridiculous measure of wealth. But the Heritage Foundation has no interest in accurately measuring anything.

There is such a thing as wage slavery. Is there such a thing as consumer slavery as well?

Yeah, the years of the “shining city on the hill”… for some, but not for others….

Luxury… We were too poor to afford sticks and gravel. The best we could afford was sand, AND we collected rainwater from puddles so we wouldn’t go thirsty.

Well, opiates have been around a long time, relatively speaking. :)

My question is why do Robert Rector and Thomas Sowell get paid to write the same damn story week after week, year after year? Sowell generally mentions in his articles that our poor certainly aren’t going hungry because they are fat, but the rest of it is always the same.

But really, who is on welfare here? The trailer park and Section 8 housing people? Or these Think Tank parasites who jut pass out the same two or three articles every few months?

I have a part-time job (my second job), and the company is restructuring how staff work in order to *downgrade* our pay to minimum wage. I’m ok, bc at this time, I don’t count on it for my full income, but some employees do. I might add that our jobs have changed a great deal recently due to technology (some for the better but some for the worse), and we are all being forced to do more work at a higher level… and now we will also get *paid less* to do it…. AND on top of it they are forcing employees to stand for 4 hour stretches (when it’s not needed to do so).

It’s quite something how this company is very nastily pushing their employees into this draconian sweat-shop mode, and no, it’s not factory labor. It’s a service-sector job. No reason for it; just that “they” can get away with this now at the height of the depression. Too bad, so sad, if you don’t like it.

They will not be happy until people must beg for food stamps. It is a little like that now with medicaid for some people,especially the old ones but not at all restricted to them. And the cuts planned will make it worse.
In fact they won’t be happy if you beg. You have to be their slave.

You guys are too funny. I’ll drink a cold one toasting you later. Ahem, after 5.

Outrageous wealth! Sand AND puddles, you say?? It never ever rained where I lived. We had to collect dew off of the plants in the early morning, and that was only IF the plant-owner wasn’t looking….

People have talked already about how cheap some of these items are if they are a little out of date.

But my experience is that you can find these things FREE. My kids use to come home with TVs and game systems they’d found in garbage bins. People throw away stuff when they upgrade.

It’s known as debt servitude. I guess there are always gonna be banks to rob. Either way, when you are desperate you win. Don’t get caught, get money. Get caught, get 3 squares and private room to share with your new lover.

oh yeah it starts with all of my friends telling me, on different occasions, ‘you know you should really get the new iphone’ after they see i have just a regular cell phone.

No one at Heritage is an authority of anything except their own farts.

And health care. DON’T FORGET health care!!!

I mean, folks on our own side are telling us that we have to CLAP LOUDER for the Heritage Foundation Health Care Plan enacted last year.

Idiots.

Aren’t citizens pretty much begging for food stamps now? I know some are, and these sh*ts don’t like that, either.

I’m not sure what they want, other than that some citizens can (really) just go die somewhere.

It’s all done, of course, to pit the have-somewhat-mores v. the have-nots. All done to *distract* a large swathe of the populace from who is really ripping us all off… and it ain’t some poor person in the ghetto with a stupid Xbox, and that’s for d*mn sure.

The Heritage Foundation’s argument is precisely the rationale for capping CEO salaries and going back to the 90% top tax bracket of the 1950s–that is the “heritage” to which they are referring. How many Xboxes can a person use?

Rich peoples garbage is the trickle down theory; that’s what they mean by that…”You can have my garbage, just don’t pick through it when I am home”

Doesn’t do much good to have a TV and Play Station if you don’t have a home to put it in and couldn’t pay the electric bill if did have a home. The elite class is not of this world.

The idea that someone who probably never is, was or will be poor is a leading national authority always makes me giggle.

I was just reading his bio. This guy is a piece of work and the guy who decided that the poor shouldn’t get food stamps because the majority of them are overweight. Heh, go figure.

I’d love for some of these “leading experts” to be required to subsist on $10,000 a year for at least a year before they actually get called an “expert.” Nothing trumps real life experience to give someone “expertise.”

I bet this guy never had to donate plasma for groceries or rob the funds to pay his electric bill when he needed new tires to pass a car inspection. Expert my backside.

I know! I still drive a car that’s 20 years old, and I get *crap* about it all the time from *some* of my acquaintances. Some people I know pretty much refuse to ride in it… like it’s diseased or something.

I’m rather *proud* of my car, which I call “Poor old Paint.” It has been faithful all these years, but I can see that I will need to replace it soon.

I always find it interesting to witness who “disses” Poor old Paint (and me, by extension) v. who praises Poor old Paint (for continuing to run reliably & be, essentially, a money-saver). It’s not too bad on gas mileage, I might add.

Who is on welfare? Those darn deadbeat children that Republicans insist that women have comprise the majority on welfare.

I was just listening to Peter Moric and some other ass on CNN. Some day I think I will throw something at the TV. The conservatives are really good on their messaging. After all don’t we all now think that the poor and the unemployed are just fucking lazy? And if we were to suck it up there would be no more “debt problem”, whatever the fuck that is.

I am sure he has assistants to take care of such mundane efforts as paying bills and a chauffeur to drive him about so that he can get on with the complicated business of being an expert and all.

Well, you *really* should…

“Most news stories on poverty feature homeless families, people living in crumbling shacks, or lines of the downtrodden eating in soup kitchens,” Rector says. “The actual living conditions of America’s poor are far different from these images.”

So there are no people living in shacks, in ghettoes in trailer parks, moving back in with their parents, crashing on friend’s couches or living ten people in a one bedroom apartment?
All those soup kitchens running out of food all those homeless shelters that turn people away every night because there is no room are an illusion?

Yeah, and I agree with its position as much as I agree with the capping of CEO salaries and confiscatory 90% marginal tax rates, which is to say not at all.

I do hate it especially when one group of people cant pay their fair share and have no fucking idea of what poverty really is all about.

“The poorest Americans today live a better life than all but the richest persons a hundred years ago.”[3] In 2005, the typical household defined as poor by the government had a car and air conditioning.

Ah I see the mistake they assume households still have homes they somehow ignore all the people who lost their home. Never mind the people who still have a home but no job, have, ran out or never collected unemployment and eat at food banks.

This guy is a piece of work and the guy who decided that the poor shouldn’t get food stamps because the majority of them are overweight.

The poor are overweight bc they can only *afford* to eat starchy, carbo-laden foods, rather than a healthy, balanced diet.

See the excellent documentary “Food, Inc,” which has a section in it about this very topic. It follows a lower-income family around on their grocery shopping trips, where they *demonstrate* how they simply cannot afford to that many fruits & vegetables (not even talking about meat) bc these are “too expensive” even in the cheaper grocery stores. What’s affordable is starchy stuff, and, frankly, fast food.

It’s insightful. The family says: we don’t want to eat this way; we know it’s not all that healthy; but what can do? this is what we can *afford.*

Most citizens are clueless about why so many poor folks are so overweight. It’s often bc of WHAT they can afford to eat, and not totally bc they are eating “so much.”

It’s a real problem that ends up being a burden on all of us in the long run, as people age and have obesity issues.

What a complete bag of horseshit.

We picked our 32 inch TV up at a government surplus auction(state university) for $2.50. My laptop was about $50 and a couple hours labor for my hubby who installed a new keyboard, the os we already had and antivirus.

Ha! Yeah, the old argument that went, “Well, I don’t need that new item,” is irrelevant, even incomprehensible now. The typical, incredulous response: “Otto, you fool, need has nothing to do with it! Consume beyond your means or be damned. Where’s your sense of patriotism, of shared sacrifice?”

I’d like one of those experts to live on 20k a year with two kids.

It’s really easy to be “good at messaging” when the media spends 24/7 blasting your message and when they do happen to mention anything factual that actually opposes your message sneering “liberal media.”

For entertainment, the household had two color televisions, cable or satellite TV, a DVD player, and a VCR. If there were children, especially boys, in the home, the family had a game system, such as an Xbox or a PlayStation.[4] In the kitchen, the household had a refrigerator, an oven and stove, and a microwave.

Ever heard of Pawn shops stuff is cheap now everyone is selling. Never mind that X-Boxes etc are just proof you once had money and still own stuff you bought when you had money and lets face it unless your X-box is recent and in good condition the Pawn shops probably won’t take it at any price because so many people are pawing things right now.
Talk about Out of touch with the Common Man!

…in the SF Bay Area.

The conservatives are really good on their messaging.

They are, but it sure helps when it’s wealthy conservatives who OWN virtually all the media. And they all say the same stuff, almost word for word.

That’s why I watch tv & listen to the radio so seldom anymore. I cannot bear it. It’s full of lies, scams, nasty scapegoating, depravity of the worst sort, propoganda, hype and bullshit. Very very very little that’s of any value whatsoever.

And when there IS a semi-decent tv show, they don’t fund it. Ray Romano actually has a good show right now called “Men of a Certain Age.” I think it’s just “too real,” and I read today that whatever cable station it’s on is not renewing for a third season. Typical. The show tells the truth… can’t have that!

exactly. kind of like shooting fish in a barrel. but it is effective.

A guy I know bought a car. He argued about the price and the dealer just flat out told him: you dont have good credit, so the car is marked up 25% and you pay 21% interest. Why buy the car? to get to work out of town. What do you make? 20k, two kids. It’s your fault.

With all the foreclosures going on, there are also LOTS of garage & estate sales going on. I was at one yesterday, and they were selling some gigantor tv set for some minimal amount of money. There’s LOADS of ways to obtain “stuff” at a pretty good price these days, for better or for worse.

A leading Authority has he ever volunteered at a homeless shelter, been to a ghetto or trailer park eaten the crap the grocery stores donate to food banks just try and eat a balanced meal with the stuff they give away.

EVERY PENNY, every damned PENNY of increased worker productivity over the past THREE DECADES has gone, NOT to the workers, but to the owners. Workers make slightly more today (in real dollars) NOT because of increased wages, but because they work more hours.

That’s THREE DECADES of productiity increases that have been STOLEN from the working class.

And anyone that says demanding that back is somehow equal to what this assinine Heritage Foundation article is saying is just another “I’ve got mine and fuck everyone else” asshole.

Yep agreed if you have cash its great to get stuff cheap now.

Yeah, and I notice all the public transportation projects (including inter-urban rail) going on right now… NOT!

I am sure that people poorer than you would say the same thing about the amount of wealth you have accumulated.

Come on, Blue, what’s keeping you from selling one of your cars and donating the money to the poor? (How many cars do you need?) Or taking that spare couch of yours and letting an urban frontiersman sleep on it.

Unless you want those less fortunate than you telling YOU what to do with YOUR wealth, don’t assume you can do the same to others.

Even if you don’t have much cash, if you know what you want/need, you can find it pretty cheaply. Which is why this screed by the Heritage Foundation is doubly disingenous … no surprise.

I know why they’re overweight. The crap that is cheap like hot dogs or mac and cheese are sodium filled, preservative filled, calorie laden and high on the glycemic index. It wreaks havoc on your blood sugar which in turn leads you to eat more of it.

It’s also fairly easy. Shopping for healthy food, creating a menu plan and then executing it after working a 40-60 hour work week at your service sector job is alot more than many feel like they can conquer.

And notice that in those 3 decades american business no longer leads the world in making steel, cars, tv sets etc and the businesses we do dominate how many of those jobs are outsourced or pay low wages like fast food or farm work?

A lot like that commenter you called bullshit on up thread.

Some day I think I will throw something at the TV.

It is a bit like therapy, but can get expensive.

I had to switch from bricks to rolled up socks. Less therapeutic, but also much, much less expensive. I admit I do still keep a brick handy, just in case….

Another salient point, about which most US workers are *clueless.*

And if you bring it up, then you just get lyng crap about how the super-wealthy are “taking the risk” blah blah blah.

Most citizens are clueless about the spendthrift ways of the mega-wealthy, and drink the Kool Aid that they “deserve” everything bc they “worked so hard.” Well, no: many of them either inherited what they got, and some who did “work hard,” ended up over-spending so much that they lost it all. But the over-spending was on personal b.s. consumption, rather than re-investing in their businesses.

But we’re supposed to “feel sorry” for the mega-rich bc of “how hard” they work, etc.

We only want you and your rich friends to pay your fair share or get the fuck out.

Oh sure, I mean it is a level playing field of rugged individuals in splendid isolation.

But in truth often the healthy food – even at cheaper stores – is more expensive than people can afford.

But what you say is true about that food that many consume. It’s totally unhealthy but sometimes is all that people can afford.

Ahem. What’s stopping me from selling my car? It’s a hoopdy that barely runs…and it just had it’s engine replaced.

Which is why this screed by the Heritage Foundation is doubly disingenous … no surprise.

Their audience is people who don’t want to help the poor in other words the media and Washington they supply excuses so the rich don’t feel guilty.
Ask them when the rich who are sitting on $2 trillion dollars will start creating jobs in America?
Their honest answer would be once American Workers are not so well paid.
Never mind the obvious question if American workers are not so well paid anymore jst who will buy their crap? Chinese wages are rising:).
China won’t let them move production not without stealing the copyrights on their junk…oh wait China is already doing that.
The Rich are losing their customers and their ownership of the junk they sell:)

Yes, the TV is hosted by entitled fucks who give a “fair” hearing to whomever they like.

Exactly like that.

Good to see you, hope all is well. Actually, VERY good to see you. There for awhile you were disappeared, literally, at least on my computer. I was worried. I went to posts that i remembered you posted, and your name was missing but the post was there. A search of your name at MyFDL resulted in no match.

LOL, maybe it’s my old brain playing games on me again, but I am happy to see you, that’s for sure. As I said, hope all is well.

Short answer: Healthy eating is expensive. People living off of food stamps don’t shop at Whole Foods. Fresh food farmer’s markets aren’t thrown in the middle of a ghetto or trailer park.

Sell a few bags of weed = XBox.

Unless you want those less fortunate than you telling YOU what to do with YOUR wealth, don’t assume you can do the same to others.

Well, for the sake of argument: OK. But then why should I let people who are much RICHER than me, demand that *I* bail them out when they f*ck up our economy? Why am I supposed to do that, and never ever get my money back??

Why am *I* supposed to let mega-rich jerks like Ken Lay rip me OFF for a fake “energy crisis” he created in CA, and then never get MY money back?

That’s just scratching the surface, but I don’t “get” why I’m supposed to have MY income/earnings re-directed to the mega-rich. I’m tired of PAYING for Corporate welfare.

Frankly, I’d rather be funding some poor person more, but I cannot bc I’ve been tapped out by the mega-wealthy.

On edit: plus your whole “argument” is full of false equivalencies.

Went to log in last Monday and got a “invalid user name.” It took the wonder tech Brian a while to revive me.

Again, though, even in cheaper grocery stores or places like WalMart, you can buy fruits and veggies (of whatever quality). The documentary “Food Inc” followed around some poorer families on their grocery trips. They were able to point out that buying fruits & veggies, even in cheaper stores (forget about Whole Foods – you don’t need to go there to get fruits & veggies), was too expensive… what they could *afford* was cheap starchy carbo-laden food & frankly Fast Food falls into that category.

Sell a few bags of weed = XBox.

?????

That’s not a good trade, IMO. *g*

I’m sure I’m going to butcher it going from memory, but SD linked an old comic that something along the lines of: “A day with weed but no money is a lot easier to get through than a day with money but no weed.”

I don’t think the same can be said about an XBOX. Either that or I’ve really gotta get me one of those things.

which individuals did you bail out?

Ken Lay for one.

Ken Lewis for another.

Jamie Dimon.

A buncha crooks at Goldman Sachs.

The list is endless, frankly.

So sorry to be late to this thread, but my sonny and I were celebrating the fact that the mister figured out how to fix the a/c in the car I drive. Considering the weather, coming, we felt a good clean out would be an appropariate project. So we been cleaning. Found a bunch of lighters, combs. half empty water bottles…..ha ha ha. It’s a van. Imagine?
Nearly everybody has a phone cell. The poor waiting in line for their free food often make me wait for them to finish their conversationj. Sometimes I say, Please step to the said and when you’ve finished your call, I’ll help you.
It’s a conundrum. The guys waiting outside of Home Depot, or whereever, to get a job all on their cell phones.
I don’t have one.
That said, they can play and talk all they want. It’s their choice. It’s a tough choice to decide whether we have the power to tell people what to do. I’ve got more stories, but I’ll leave it at that for now.
Just trying to make it though another day without having a break down.

how much did YOU pay them?

Something that the Heritage Foundation and the “What are they doing buying XBox-es?” crowd never considers: what if tomorrow everyone in the US “lived within their means,” lived like Europeans or Chinese and bought only what they really needed? I imagine ole fart-breather at the Heritage Foundation would be out of a sinecure….

all of it bought on credit.
that makes folks rich and not needing schools, roads, medicaid, unemployment or food stamps?
no it makes them in debt.

I don’t want to criticize voluteers but living in poverty and experiencing it firsthand is a heck of a lot different than talking to somebody about it for a couple of hours while volunteering.

I honestly think Congress ought to be required to subsist on median income for their district. It’d give them an incentive to improve the plight of people on the bottom.

I know it will never happen but still I wish some of them could be required to run the guantlet that someone who grows up poor does for at least a year. Learn how it feels to scrounge for change in your car to pay a co pay for a kid with an ear infection and dread having to take a whole day off without pay to care for them.

Whatever was ROBBED out of MY taxes… and YOURS frankly.

But I guess you’re one of those folks who doesn’t *mind* if your taxes are re-directed to the super wealthy. It only galls you if some poor person appears to get “something.” The dog forbid….

What an excellent idea. Since those who are a lot more fortunate than the majority of the US population have been calling the shots when it comes to what to do with wealth, it would be a great change of pace to let those who are less fortunate do the dictating. I would love it–you know, just for the sheer hell of it–if those less fortunate than me told me what to do with my money. It would sure break the monotony.

However, I’m not sure what you mean when you say “YOUR wealth.” Do we all live on islands, are we all in charge of our own means of production, do we operate in vacuums?

You can get healthy food for inexpensive but usually it takes time to prepare it. A pound of dry beans only runs a buck but it takes time to soak and cook em’. Time isn’t always a luxury poverty allows you. Not if you are working two jobs to keep a roof over your head as many do.

Oh I am not disagreeing with you. You see it at Target and Food for Less all the time. A mom deciding to buy a six dollar frozen pizza to feed the 3 kids instead of 6 dollar platter of cut fruit that feeds barely 2 adults.

Congrats on the AC.

How many times you want to eat beans in a week?

WTF??

Are we going to just drop trou and get out the measuring stick next?

Dude, nobody asked how much you’re paying in taxes.

You pretty much need a phone, at least a basic one, and a cell phone is just easier. I have never seen a single employment application that didn’t ask for a phone number.

When we were struggling? Almost daily.

Has the Heritage Foundation found a some way to prepare an X-Box for dinner?

No.

Prices for computers and video games are at record lows because of the economic crash. You cannot eat computers/video games.

Big time, Bill. Big time. Big hugs to you and ms. sweet thang.

Never happen… I do know!!

I was going to say this, but you took care of it. People buy cheap shitty fast food instead of healthy fresh stuff because fast food is, well, fast. I know all these tough talking middle classers (high school students?) like baru could work one 8 hour shift at the nursing home cleaning up human feces followed by a 6 hour shift at Subway (net yearly income 25-28,000) and then find time to fix a fine puttanesca with homemode gnocchi.

An application question is there, doesn’t mean I have to give them an answer. It all depends. I don’t know what you do for a living or what you do to pass the time of day, but, saying everyone needs a cell phone may be a bit um out of touch.

Some of it I suppose could be argued worked well, in that the bailouts to the automakers seem to have saved some jobs. But I’m still torn on that because it also seems they used the emergency to trample on retiree health care and current worker’s benefits.

Speaking of the motor companies, there is an EXCELLENT documentary coming on tonight on HBO entitled Mann vs Ford. HBO has a new doc every Monday night but this is the one I’ve been waiting for since I first heard about it. It’s about the ongoing story of a small community in New Jersey (I think) where Ford dumped a bunch of toxic crap that is literally killing the community. Interesting stuff, and for those with HBO maybe you’ll give it a look in.

I don’t own a cell phone. Or a TV. My computer was a gift. (I have a very cheap paid off car [singular]). I live like a retiree at age 38, and I have a very decent income. But I do it to protect myself. I want people to behave like me financially, and I attempt to spread the gospel as much as possible (mostly because it hurts banks), but I understand the philosophy that says, spending keeps my neighbor employed.

Well, I guess I’m not a good example but I’ve never had one. Still.

I had one issued me when I worked for the gubmint and when I managed a pediatrician’s office, but never got one myself. I don’t feel like I’m missing anything. I’ve gotten this far without one.

LOL, don’t have an XBOX or Playstation either, although when my son was young I did get him an Intellivision, and a Nintendo when he was older. Does that count?

Frozen veggies are fairly cheap. You can pick up a package of frozen mixed veggies for about $1. Canned stuff you have to watch the sodium on but frozen stuff is fairly healthy.

Oops.

Just realized I guess I did a promo for HBO.

Does that violate SPAM rules or any rules???

If so could someone mark it as inappropriate so the mods will delete it.

If you don’t put a phone number on the application then you’re going to have a hard time having an employer call you back to let you know that you’re hired.

Basic service for a regular phone is $30. You can pick up a cell phone for less than that made by tracphone with a 10 minute starter card.

It’s not a tradeoff I’d be prepared to make. :)

I have a regular cellphone too, a Motorola V3, I’ll have it till the day it dies. It’s a phone, that’s all I want. If I need the internet, I can wait till I get home. I have an $80 GPS in my car to get directions. I see no other uses for an all singing, all dancing phone that costs an arm and a leg to use.

Maybe I’m a Luddite, but I doubt it, I just don’t break into a sweat just because I don’t have the latest and greatest in rip-off gadgets.

I have a home phone number, and I put my husband’s cell phone as an alternate number.
I’m 59 years old and have been around the block a few times.
I really don’t know you at all, where you live or what you do for a living, but I’m pretty sure you don’t know me either.
But thanks for the advice. I got it.

Right now? I’m a housewife and a mom. However, I did stints at BK and a steakhouse to help pay the bills as a youngster before joining the military(that was back when employment laws for youngers were more lax). I spent almost 12 in the military. Got out and worked 2 jobs, one of them a cashier at Kroger, then a cashier/csm at Walmart(it paid more although it had crummier benefits). I also did a stint at Taco Bell working the 8 to midnight 5 days a week when my hubby was working for Danaher and his hours got cut.

Unlike the “expert” at the Heritage foundation, I actually lived in poverty for a decent portion of my life.

Heh, I didn’t even get connected to the toobz until just a couple of years ago.

And glancing at my Comcast bill, I may not be keeping it either.

Funny how inflation is so low that Social Security got no COLA increase TWO YEARS in a ROW, yet gas and food prices are skyrocketing, and my Comcast bill (for a phone and internet) has gone up every year, as well as my DirecTV bill.

If they make it three in a row, then I know something’s not right.

Interesting that your rebuttal of the Heritage Foundation’s argument amounts to striking a pose of amazed contempt. Is it all you’ve got?

By “Your” wealth, I recognize that people earn what they have in life and that government or wealth-enviests can only take that away at the point of a gun. I believe what YOU earn is YOURS and that taxation and things like caps on salaries are simply confiscating private property.

Let me know what “we” failed to respond to? Was there some nugget of wisdom that we missed?

Sounds like you’ve worked hard all your life. Me too.
If you click on my name, it’ll take you to myfdl where you can view the many diaries I’ve written about working as a volunteer. Also, what I’ve seen and learned.
I know how to shop wisely, at the 99 cents store and the thrift store.
I try to survive by being wise, appreciating that which I’ve got and trying to help others.
Thanks for sharing your info. I have a better idea of who you are.

Not *everyone* needs a cellphone, but I would wonder how exactly someone who is out of work is going to edge out in front of however many people are competing for the same job as them if they can’t even provide a contact number?

See my #165.
You read, right?

The difference between the poor and the middle class has everything to do with security–freedom from destitution. Not whether or not you can buy a $50 Xbox, $100 TV, and $20 microwave. Cheap crap has little or no bearing on what constitutes income security.

It’s a pay as you go phone too, costs me about a hundred bucks a year, but then, I have few friends, not that I care, most people are shallower than the water that sits in the sink after you’ve pulled the plug.

Taxes pay for services like roads, ensuring you have clean air, healthy food, schools, and defense.

The idea that it’s stealing to make you pay for those things is dumb, dumb, dumb.

I read fine, and up until you pointed me to that post I thought we were discussing the necessity of phones in searching for a job in the current market.

But since you apparently see the conversation as some sort of personal attack, I’m gonna go ahead and bow out of it.

If you’re not taking an heirloom plastic jug down to the creek for your water, and begging for rice flour cut with rock dust at the back of a charity truck, you’re living too well in their eyes.

And I believe that anyone that profits off of the modern society we have, with it’s transportation infrastructure and megamarket, as well as it’s law enforcement that allows them to keep a lot of what they earn, owes back to that society. We all have an obligation to the society because we all benefit from it.

No man is an island.

You should try living in Somalia. Probably be right up you’re alley. What you make there you keep. If you’ve got a bigger gun than the other guys. Sound like the kind of place you’d like to live in?

why should they respond further than they have? They’re winning the war thanks to the greed at the top.

Did you know that 74% of the Heritage foundation supporters(Republicans) believe that some tax increases are called for.

http://www.politicususa.com/en/gop-deficit-poll/comment-page-1

People are seeing right through the whole poor people have too much thing. Particularly when they know that trillions went to people who then paid themselves million dollar bonuses and are now whining about being taxed on it.

The banks got bailed out big-time, and what happened?? The CEOs and others at the top continued to get GIANT salaries, gold-plated benefits & HUGE bonuses at year-end. All in the name of: oh our salaries have to be “competitive” to get the “best.”

Best what?? Best at RIPPING off taxpayers? Yeah, I think that’s the ticket.

What value do banks provide these days??? Bloody little. They pay next to no interest on savings accounts & CDS, but sure don’t hesitate to charges fees for everything they can possibly think of. And if you have a mortgage with a bank, good luck with that cuz who knows who actually holds your title and owns your note?? They possibly leveraged it in some weird way and sold it to someone else.

Why was *I* on the hook to bail out these sh*ts who ran the world economy into the ground??? WHY???

Yet some conservative comes here whining & crying bc they feel “robbed” bc some poor person got a few bucks to make ends meet. WTF? It’s a form of insanity.

My lifestyle is somewhat similar to yours. I’ve always lived at or as far below my means as possible. Unfortunately the crash wiped out some of MY very *hard-earned* savings and investments. Luckily I didn’t do as badly as some, but in this day and age, you’re really on your own.

You can do everything “right,” save, work hard, etc, etc, and still end up with financial difficulties.

Yet the super-mega-wealthy – who *enjoy* the benefits of YOUR tax dollars rarely ever have to suffer.

This all about Class Warfare. We are being ripped off by the upper 2%, not by poor people.

OldFagGuy,

I believe in contributing to society, and I pay my legislated share. I object to the lower class always assuming that when they want something else, they are “owed” the right to suck on the teat of those who have more money than them. You simply can’t pay for everything by taxing the rich to death.

We simply have to live within our means, and that means not always getting the rich guys to pick up the tab.

I wish they would talk to my Somalian friend Margaret. I am going to tell you a story that ends like you (or I) will not expect:

Margaret was a well educated woman who lost her entire family, including her children in the the wars there. After seeing her loved ones murdered before her eyes, in the refugee camps she was repeatedly raped and almost starved. She found her way as a “refugee” to America. Here she was sponsored for one year and in spite of her halting English landed a job (of course her education, a Master’s Degree in nursing was not recognized here). But that job did not pay enough to pay for rent and so after the sponsership ended, Margaret found herself on the streets of Seattle for 2 years while STILL working full time. She also contracted the incurable TB from staying in shelters because it is rampant here.

Margaret converted to Christianity during her ordeal in Somalia. She is a devout Catholic and there is no prouder American than she is.

One time, during a conversation with her I told her Americans here believe the poor are “lucky” to be poor and an American. Did she agree?

How Margaret answered was a surprise …. she said:

” Being poor in America is harder than being poor in Somalia. In Somalia if you are without a home, you can simply go into the forest and learn how to survive with the indigenous peoples who have lived there for eons and they will teach you how to survive. Here in America, there are no indigenous people, they have been chased off, and the forests are owned by either the government or privately. If you tried to go there to survive, you will be arrested. The *only* way you can have a home in America requires you pay for the home plus all energy you need to cook and stay warm, plus be required to pay for food, not forage for it. If you tried to build a fire and/or sleep and live in a city park ~ again you will be arrested.

I had never thought of it that way. Now I know no matter how many X boxes, Teevees or whatever else the poor have, (and remember they took away analogue so digital is now required, flat screens come with converter digital even for unpaid stations), that American poverty is actually harder to endure than in Somalia…”

Hope this helps …

Cat in Seattle

And I object to the upper 2% “always assuming that when they want something else, they are ‘owed’ the right to suck on the teat of those who have” LESS money than them. You simply can’t pay for everything by having regressive tax rates that put the burden endlessly on the middle & working class to have their taxes re-distributed up to the upper 2%.

I completely agree with you: we “simply have to live within our means,” and that means not making the middle/working class constantly bailing out the mega-wealthy.

If you want us to live “within our means” why don’t you strenuously advocate for the USA get out the three useless Wars we are embroiled in??? What are YOU doing in that regard. YOU and I are paying for those Wars, btw, and the mega-wealthy are making nothing but money off of our taxes.

But then, everybody starts preparing their own meals and taking care of grandma themselves. Oops! there go your jobs and that great annual income. Welcome to the thrift paradox. Oh well, when you’re sitting on the curb you can watch the deserving people fly over on their way to a resort.

OldFagGuy…. nice.

That alone shows you don’t deserve a response, but I will respond by saying that getting tax rates back to where they were in say the 1970′s or even under Reagan isn’t “taxing the rich to death.” There were plenty of rich folks in those decades as well. And they didn’t die due to high tax rates.

Whereas 45,000 Americans ACTUALLY DIE from a lack of health care every year. And that is morally reprehensible when the rich benefit from the labors of many of those 45,000 as well as profits made from selling stuff to them. To suggest they have no obligation back to them is another in a long line of the sick and disgusting “I’ve got mine, fuck everybody else” memes.

If there really is a judgement day at the end of our days, good luck with that.

Believe me, I know that my self-imposed penury will not totally insulate me from poverty. Nevertheless, I do have what I described upthread that the poor don’t: I have a highly comprehensive medical insurance program. So, at least until I get axed, I have that. My only point I guess is it’s very easy to say “we’re all equally vulnerable outside of the wealthy.” That’s true as far as it goes. But I’m not going to pretend, even for a second, that there aren’t people who have it far worse than I do.

Yeah, I hinted at that absurdity in my post. Capitalism’s a hamster wheel.

Somehow, I don’t think her story will make it on the magazine shows.

Thanks for your thoughtful response. Mostly I agree with you and also advocate that others live in a similar fashion. Save what you can, etc.

I’ve had 2 jobs for years, even though in theory, I don’t “need” the 2d job. Why do I do it? Partly out of creating more savings and have a tad more job security. I’m fortunate in that I like both of my jobs, but it gets harder to continue working so many hours as I get older. Yet I witness a so-called “Democratic” POTUS now poised to RIP OFF Soc Sec, which I’ve worked d*mned hard to contibute to for years, as well as Medicare (ditto), and I feel: what choice do I have?? Work as much and as hard as possible while I can bc who know what happens tomorrow???

And yes, believe me, if you don’t have health insurance: look out. Even with health insurance, my out of pocket med expenses rise every single year, and I’m very very healthy (and exercise daily and eat a very healthy diet).

It’s gotten ridiculous in this country. Too sad.

Sorry, the “t” and “g” keys are so close together.

One stat for you and I’ll sign off. The ratio of all tax revenues to GDP has consitently been in the 15% to 20% range ever since the 1960s, even though marginal tax rates and tax laws have varied widely during those times. Now, what does that tell us? It tells me that regardless of what you do to tax rates (e.g. get them back to the good ol’ pre-Reagan days), you are simply not going to raise significantly more revenues over the long term. People make adjustments in their economic behavior so as to keep the government tax take at 15 to 20 percent of the GDP. Differences in tax rates have a far greater impact on economic growth than federal revenues.

There was a guy named Laffer that pointed it out and I think he was a pretty smart dude.

It’s getting more and more apparent too. 51% of bankruptcies caused by a medical malady and of those over 70% had “insurance.”

The greedy have gotten so greedy that they’ve given away their game. We’re all supposed to pay for the privelege of them being citizens of our country.

The conservatives here always seem to say if we tax the rich then they’ll leave for other countries. Well, I wish we would so they’d leave already. They’ve made an utter mess here and it’s impossible to clean up while they’re still here making a mess.

Tell it.

Therein lies the truth. The upper 2% in the USA are wealthy beyond most citizens’ imaginings, and that’s part of the problem. Yes, some citizens earn more than the average bear and can lead a pretty nice lifestyle. But most citizens can’t begin to imagine what it’s like for those at the top of the pyramid.

And those at the top are there bc they are sucking off the “teat” of our labor… making more and more, while we workers effectively make less and less… and now the Overlords are proposing that we serfs do with even less while they rip-off the money that YOU and I contributed over many years into Soc Sec and Medicare… based on the pernicious LIE that Soc Sec & Medicare are either causing the deficit or somehow “contribute” to the nation’s debt.

Yes, something like 45,000 citizens DIE annually due to inadequate health care, but ohmigawd, let’s all throw endless pity-parties for LEECHES at the top of the pyramid, who are the only ones who “work so hard,” and to tax them FAIRLY is somehow akin to highway robbery.

Get. a. clue. (not said to you, OFG, but to conservatives)

Now you’re even bringing up Laffer???

OMG what’s next, the confidence fairy???

Let me guess, tax cuts creates jobs too???

What a load of demonstrably proven false horseshit.

Let’s just hope that was just a typo, other wise let’s just scroll on.
This is kind of reminding me why I usually stay away from posting during the day.
Hugs to you and let’s have a great evening, and not worry about silly mistakes on line. :O

Beat me to it!! Yeah yeah, resorting to the usual rightwing bullsh*t “arguments” straight out of Rush Limbaugh’s mouth.

No big surprise there. I was *counting on* that person to toss out something like the Laffer curve. Wish I’d taken a bet on it.

It’s like shooting fish in a barrel: you can always tell when they’re gonna pull some rightwing talking point out of their butt-cheek. Never fails. A complete load of hogwash, but hey! It sounds “great,” and it accords with their world view, and finally Laffer is such a “smart dude,” so there ya go… eat sh*t and die ya DFHs.

Yeah, he said it was a typo AND that he was sorry.

That’s mighty decent of him and I’m pretty sure it ends there.

Hugs back at ya, especially for that volunteer gig. That really is so awesome. Good on you.

But I will bow out now. Didn’t mean to be a buzzkill for days here. Stay cool Demi.

Peace.

I’m bringing up facts. Higher tax rates don’t always increase revenues. De-MON-strably proven.

And some tax cuts DO create jobs. Do you really think companies move offshore to lower tax countries because they like the hummus? Do you really think that lowering the taxes on the small business down the block causes the “rich” business owner to sock everyting into his or her brokerage account and not into hiring more people and expending the business?

You want to keep believing in the progressive fairy, go right ahead.

As if the wealthy don’t hire lobbyists and donate to political campaigns to dictate to the poor how things will be. As if they don’t to break worker collectivism to dictate how their workers must live.As if they don’t create offshore accounts and constantly connive in all sorts of ways to evade their existing responsibilities. As if their own consciences or sense of frugality prevented them from appointing their offices with umbrella stands made with the feet of dead animals from endangered species. As if they don’t buy up all media outlets to seduce or coerce others to bend to their will. When they stop leveraging their wealth into power to dictate to others, and accept a more egalitarian society, others should demand they do so.

Thank you.

Good question. I’ll bet twenty bucks that if you trace the money far enough that shows up in the pockets of Thomas Sowell and these other class-war apologists, you’ll find that large chunks of it come, somehow some way, from the government teat.

Sorry can’t resist:

I rarely agree with the Heritage Foundation, but these “poor” people have Xboxs??? WTF?
They are not “poor”. Did anyone read the “report” put out by the HF? These so-called “poor” people also have running water. Oh come on. How can yo be “poor” and having running water?
Indoor plumbing too? If you have indoor plumbing, you can’t possibly be “poor”.
And the police provide for their safety, just like the rest of us??? Are you Fing kidding me? What kinda of Marxist/Socialist/Communist/[insert -ist here] are we living in. Geez. We literally provide them with everything. Why do the “poor” whine so much? Would you like cheese with that? What they can go out and buy cheese too? Just like the rest of us? Well then they can’t be poor.
Did you now they also get an education? Poor people can’t afford an education, so they can’t be “poor”.

I agree with the HF. The only way you can be “poor” is if you are literally starving, living on the side of the street (no fancy boxes allowed), you own nothing, and can not afford to buy even food. Just like 100 year ago. Heck I say we make the definition of poverty equal to what it was 500 years ago. That will teach the poor. You know JC was rabidly against the poor too.

(Do I really need the /s?)

The ability to consume goods creates jobs, not some mythical tax cut. When a large portion of the populus becomes non-consumers of new goods, and stays that way, no new jobs are created and many old jobs disappear.

Companies move jobs overseas for many reasons, almost all having to do with a chosen few benefiting and the rest not. If you want to live in a land where health has actually declined severely as it becomes a world leader in manufacturing, and pollution, try China. If you want to live in a country where people go and take jobs to help there families survive, knowing that the job WILL kill them at a young age, try India. The corporations export all sorts of jobs and have no interest in if you or I even have a chance to suceed.

In case you missed it, there is still only one job for every six people looking. Many of them have outlandish expectations just to get in the door.

You should really try to understand who the “small business” owners who are complaining the loudest are. The Koch brothers, by the government definition, are “small business owners”. Many real small business owners know that a tax break for them isn’t going to bring customers in the door, because they can’t afford to spend anything on anything beyond essentials.

Wake up, son.

“The point of a gun”? How vulgar and inefficient. I thought the government, et al used schools, the TV and churches–about in that order–to accomplish this.

Is an inheritance yours? Is a virus private property? If a bunch of citizens get cancer from a water table polluted by an factory that they did not own, where is the private line between the polluter and the diseased? Should we all build our own roads to and from work? Are the advantages that accrue from being white and male in the US earned? And if not, are they yours? If all the productive property is in other private hands, how will one without that private property be able to “earn” or get a share?

Your analysis leaves out one essential vector: Power.

Read what happened on the last offshore tax haven amnesty. They socked it all away, just what you say would never happen, and the employment rate declined. And it’s not that taxes necessarily create jobs (although anti-poverty programs do create a better return on the dollar, it’s how those revenues are spent. A robust jobs program to fix the infrastructure that has been left to crumble since the Reagan Revolution, would by definition provide jobs for work that needs to be done, far more jobs than that capital sitting in accounts because there is no demand for the private sector to increase production. The “progressive fairy” is more real than the Supply-side myth.

Must be the fluoride in that socialist running water.

By what evidence do you assume that the poor think they are owed a teat on which to suck? Is there a poll I missed?

West Virginia is one of the poorest states in the Union. And yet, judging by the amount of natural resource wealth in that state in the form of coal, it should be one of the richest. How did this end result happen?

How did the rich get rich? Was all their wealth earned? And if so, what is your definition of earned?

By what evidence do you assume that the poor think they are owed a teat on which to suck? Is there a poll I missed?

By what evidence? By the “evidence” of what Rush Limbaugh & that ilk rants & tirades about daily, that’s what.

But thanks for a very very very good question. Because I, too, would LOVE to know what real *evidence* there is that the poor think they are “owned a teat to suck on.” Seems I read this a lot from conservatives/libertarians who post here frequently, but I’ve never seen stone-cold evidence of the poor “expecting” that.

Yet another unattributed rightwing assertion. No proof. Just hype, spin & lying propoganda.

One thing I wonder, how many of those Xboxes and Playstations the Heritage Foundation is decrying were Christmas gifts, people taking from what little they have and generously giving these things to others who couldn’t afford them normally, to provide a little joy in their lives? Ebeneezer Scrooge lives, happily ensconced at the Heritage Foundation.

Pardon me if this point was already made.

“There was a guy named Laffer that pointed it out and I think he was a pretty smart dude.”

I see your problem.

The poor don’t have cars. Many of the working poor don’t have cars. I can prove it.

onitgoes @ 209,

Framing the issue in this way, that the “poor” insist that they are “owed” something–as if they had the power to make good on their indignant demands, anyway–reveals at best a selfish, inexperienced, unempathetic picture of the world. In short: fuck other people, especially the “losers” who are far easier to take one’s animosity out on than those with more power and money. Typically the cause of this attitude is fear and sometimes abuse that then frequently results in identifying with one’s oppressor. Well, that and having a heart two sizes too small.

Yes, thanks for more good points, which deserve to be noted.

It’s become so oppressively common these days to hear various citizens of all political “denominations” moaning about how the “poor expect” this or that. Where is the demonstated evidence of this hypothesis? There’s precious little evidence of this “expectation,” but that notion is certainly *exploited* by the PTB.

Do I think that some citizens “rip off” the system? Sure. Do I think that’s the root-cause of this Nation’s present economic woes & trevails? Hardly.

It’s quite specious to make scatter-shot comments about the poor to “expect to suck at the teat,” when the biggest issue of the day is lack of jobs. I realize the the post concerns how a “front” for the super wealthy – aka the Heritage Foundation – has done yet another hatchet job on the poor.

That said, how have the so-called poor done anything remotely as egregious at the super rich in terms of running this nation into the ground?? They have not. Sure, some people manage to rip off something, but most use govt services *because they have no other choice.*

Sheesh.

Yet *I* bailed out US/foreign banks to the tune of a huge chunk of my annual taxes, and what have *I* gotten for that? Nothing except miserable interest rates on my accounts. Yet I watch the fat-cats in the banks pulling down gi-normous salaries and benefits, and when have they *paid back* the bail out??? And who was mostly responsible for our economy tanking?? Not the poor; it was the Banks, mostly, and Wall St.

The false equivalencies of the poor something “robbing” us by allegedly “expecting” something for nothing is yet another canard foisted onto “small people” who are greedy & heartless, and as you say, who find it easier to bash the less fortunate, rather than look at those who are really responsible.

Guess it seems easier to attack the poor and disenfranchised, rather than go after the super-wealthy who are really running the show. I note that today’s conservative/libertarian commenter avoided my question about funding the Wars, which have totally *enriched* people like Dick Cheney & his chronies. And where did THAT money come from??? Why from YOU and ME, the middle/working class tax payer, that’s who.

Nope, let’s not QUESTION why the USA is even at War, much less question why all the War manufacturing and technology is done in places like China & India… no, rather, let’s *distract* ourselves getting panties in a bunch over the pernicious LIE that poor people are problematic and ripping us all off.

Buy. a. clue.

P.S. Laffer is not a “smart dude;” he’s a TOOL of the uber-rich, who earned his paycheck getting credulous greedy libertarians to believe a pack of b.s. lies.

15% to 20% eh? Well that is 5%. GDP is 15 Trillion. So that would be what? 75 billion? Pretty good. BTW the laffer curve is a thought experiment. Many combinations of rates could achieve the max. So it doesn’t prove much.

Thank you for this insight.

The reference that they are using is the Residential Energy Consumption Survey. Yet when I check the 2005 data, only 4.9 million out of 16.9 million households(no homeless included) below the poverty line have “game consoles”, which could be anything from the original pong to the latest xbox, So that means that your typical household below the poverty level, who is not homeless, does not own a game console, let alone an xbox, which is not surveyed. Notice how the Heritage Foundation says households “especially with boys”, well there is no data on the the sex of the children, the questionnaire doesn’t ask for the sex of children, only about the sex of the primary householder.

“‘Cos everybody’s got to have somebody to look down on.
Who they can feel better than at anytime they please.
Someone doin’ somethin’ dirty, decent folks can frown on.
If you can’t find nobody else, then help yourself to me.”

–”Jesus Was a Capricorn” Kris Kristofferson

That Fear and deference to authority will get you every time. :) Have a good night!

I LITERALLY live in a 11X14 shed in an elderly womans backyard in exchange for her care.. She lives in the house and every morning I wake up, make coffee on our extravagant $10 coffee pot I keep on a table out in the backyard. I get the water from our extravagant garden hose and I’m typing this on the ever so expensive computer I cobbled together out of spare parts of computers I nicked out of dumpsters and keep the line on from the neighbors telephone pole.. We dine on gourmet banquet TV dinners that we squander out whole 99 cents a day on and once a month we enjoy a dish of extravagant 2 for $5 boxes of ice cream from Kroger..
Almost every luxury we have I dug out of dumpsters at considerable risk to my life and freedom because as we all know.. That trash belongs to THEM! Not us..

Of course, the 2.n% of Americans who make over $250K per year are solidly middle class, not rich.

And the poor aren’t really poor. Maybe they’re rich!