Mornin’, BT, pups

What is it with these white males who want to control women’s lives?

Good morning SoDrag. Thanks for the post, BT.

I’m not sure it is just women. Yesterday Senator Noname Donothing (R) KS, suggested that the President “take a valium.” Apparently they feel entitled to tell everybody what to do.

Good morning BT,
Being an ex-Catholic because of a divorce, sixty-eight years old, male, I have always felt that a woman’s body is her temple and it is her choice on what to do with her own body.
NO government agency should be in the business of telling anyone what to do in this regard.
No matter which side of the issue you stand on and I respect both sides, but this is a personal matter.
I actually find the Republican (and others) stance on making a woman have a child, but then not willing to give money to help raise that child, giving medical care for that child, making sure the child has three meals a day, DISGUSTING.

Mornin’, oldnslow

You’re right, these reichwingers want to control everything. My response to those who want to impose their will on me is, “When I start fucking you, you can start telling me what to do.”

Say hello to your lovely partner for me.

I know a lot of pro-life types. To a person, they are not interested in controlling womens lives just in saving babies. I have read stories about the ones who simply want to return women to 2nd class roles, but I have never met one.

I debate with these people over drinks on occasion. I ask them about stepping between a woman and her doctor and their response is “Well, how else do we stop it?”. They see themselves as fighting murder.

But here’s an interesting disconnect: Normally, I characterize the GOP position as “Life begins at conception and ends at birth”. But that’s not the typical position of the folks I talk to. they’re very supportive of WIC, head start and other such tax financed programs. It’s almost like they’d run away from the GOP if only they can get abortion banned.

The only control I want over a womans life is the ability to figure out what she REALLY means when she says “I don’t care”.

Boxturtle (because it SEEMS to mean “Do it my way or else”)

Slow day here today for some reason.
I am outta here, have a great 4th weekend everyone.

Will do. She is in rare, and might I add, beautifull form these days.

Happy Holiday, AC2!

I know some as well. My argument starts with taking apart the two-leggeds as supreme beings on earth meme. How so very many two-leggeds aren’t fit to be parents. I prolly piss ‘em off more than anything else but I’ll take that too. Hard to turn somebody whose positions are based on belief.

The two most dangerous words I know: I believe

Good Morning, All
I’m back from the beach. Did I miss anything interesting?

Good morning.

Dummy of the Day: Obama Advisor ‘Cream-Plouffe’ Says Obama to Blame for Bush Economy

Democrats tend to be feckless pushovers when confronted with incessant, deafening, dripping-fanged attacks by packs of Republicans. Progressives need to get tough, and they need to get as smart about politics as they are about policy. …

Article:
‘Cream-Plouffe’

Tried that arguement. The response “Well, should the baby die becuase the mother is unfit?” is difficult for me to answer.

The basic problem is that “Life begins at conception” belief. That’s the cornerstone of the pro-life people. And to a person, the ones i know are very religious. Once they’ve decided God said it, they Believe it, and that settles it.

I just wish they could accept that others DON’T share their religious interpretions and don’t want to live accorting to the will of the interpreters.

Boxturtle (Life begins at 21. Then you can drink single malt scotch)

Welcome back. Lurking is not the same when you aren’t here.

I’ll have to look it up again but there’s a verse in the Bible that states that life doesn’t begin until God gives a newborn its first breath. That usually starts ‘em mumbling and stumbling.

Had a taste of a really nice full bodied single malt couple weeks ago. Can’t remember the name, hafta go back and ask the barkeep that turned me on to it.

Then you can drink single malt scotch

I like to tell religious types that when they get to Heaven God will have The Glenn Levit on His breath.

oldnslow (sorry for mixing subjects)

Good morning, everyone. Demi, you didn’t miss much IMHO.

I just wish they could accept that others DON’T share their religious interpretions and don’t want to live according to the will of the interpreters.

I’ve been having a similar discussion with some folks on FB, but the issue is gay marriage. I had to be pretty blunt (probably won no friends) and say, “I don’t believe in God or the bible. Leave your religious beliefs out of it. It is a civil rights issue.”

Hey ya. I went camping to get “away from it all”. Got to our favorite spot and found out that it is on the list of State Camp Grounds that are going to close due to California’s budget problems. You can’t run away from politics, I guess. :(

“I know a lot of pro-life types.”

Except they are NOT really pro-life, they are just anti-choice. Yet another example of the perversion or words. Yet the put out the “Pro Life” label, the MSM repeats it and they get subconscious sympathy, after all who would be Anti-Life??

Most of these “types,” at least the ones I run into, are also for the death penalty and against any kind of medical care for kids.

“Running away from the GOP except for abortion…” – interesting thought.

Maybe…and we missed you. Welcome.

Oh, goody. See my #18. ugh.
It was so relaxing being away, that I slept through the night every night. (I have insomnia most of the time.) I think the sound of the surf might have helped too. Thinking of looking for some kind of nature noise making thang.

RB!
Maybe…what? Oh, it’s okay. I prolly don’t need to know.

I never sleep through the night. At my age, my bladder gets me up at least a couple of times. Listening to surf prolly would make it worse! LOL.

see, that’s one of my basic gripes. We call them “anti-choice” they call us “Pro-murder” or worse. If this is EVER going to be resolved, the pro-choice side is going to have to accept that the other side sees themselves as pro-life. We spend way too much time calling each other names, when the label is the least of the issues. Let them call themselves as they please. We’ll name ourselves as we please.

Boxturtle (To me, the key issue is shoving some other religious system down my throat)

My daughter and son-in-law have a clock radio that plays various “white noise” sounds, and I think surf is one. I think you can also just buy a device that does that, without the radio.

It is a civil rights issue

Exactly.

Boxturtle (And a medical issue. Don’t want my health care decided by someone who things earth is 6000 years old)

Amen, Boxturtle! *gets up on favorite high horse* There is too much name calling, including at FDL. Too much “troll” and “shill” and “tool” and in some measure it is causing me to come here less — and I am a benefactor member.

I’ll take a look around. It sure was nice.
The big dog loved running in the waves. I might have to change his name to Surf Dog.

Just to say I probably can’t remember…;)

I suppose I oughta get my butt outta this chair and get something accomplished. What I’d planned for the morning is at least temporarily rained out, so adjustments are required.

Have a good day and a good holiday weekend, everyone! I’m going to visit friends and will be offline most of the weekend (except for my iPhone). Nice break, I think.

Well, there’s that. Our site was a bit away from the restrooms, so that might be a problem for you, camping. I cut myself off of liquids an hour an a half before I went to bed so that I wouldn’t have to get up. It worked!
There was a large church youth group in a site next to us. Um, it got to be annoying as many of the kids were loud and rather obnoxious, and that’s not even talking about their group singing time. Once you’ve got a site all set up, it’s a pain to think about switching sites. I think I’ll remember next time to ask to be somewhere far away from the “group sites”.

Well, have a blast, Molly. The change will probably do you good. Or, is that well?

Off to swim in the great capitalist cesspool.

US KIA Afghanistan: 1,648

US KIA Irak: 4,469

Iraki, Afghan and Pakistani casualties: estimates vary to over 1.5M

US MBS 2011: 22,444 and counting

Volunteers

No war but class war

Never. Give. Up.

Be good to yourselves, and all other living things

Namaste

Genesis 2:7

“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”

I guess they could say a fetus has nostrils. /s

Being in the women’s movement which produced , finally, our control over our own bodies and the era of “The Pill”….just from my experience and observation, it seems that was when the fascism started.

It doesn’t seem people will fall for fascism except when certain conditions are met, like wealth inequity, ranting demagogues and civil rights issues that threaten the status quo.
Then, there has to be an outlet for the hatred produced by religion and it’s practitioners. they’ve got so many targets now, they’ve got to be confused.

But the prevailing issue throughout all of the biblical era seems to emphasize control of women.
As soon as Roe V Wade passed, I saw them ginning up and getting money and starting to exercise more control over the political process.
Now, several states want to ban women’s access to The Pill, because that’s what ultimately gave women control over our bodies.
They seem to know these things instinctively, when women are making strides toward not being under a man’s thumb.

I could almost believe they’d take down civilization not to lose this thing which is so fundamental to their belief system: that woman is evil and must be controlled and guided by the superior intellect of Man.

But, but, but. If States want to ban the pill, and a woman didn’t want to get pregnant, she’d have to turn to other women to quench her desires. Is that what those States really want? Just making a point here, if you know what I mean.
And, if you follow the logic, if those States didn’t want their citizens to be living in sin, they’d have to pass marriage equality laws.
Am I wrong here?

Yeah, but as we know, being gay isn’t a choice and there are plenty of brainwashed women out there.
I mean, the male-dominant propaganda has been going on for so very long that it’s barely seen or questioned if it is.
Heck, even gay men have more rights than women do, as I asked a friend of mine who believes he is a woman in a man’s body “why would any man give up the edge of being male in this misogynist culture?”
I think he may be starting to see my point.

Men just don’t get it, they seem to think that if a woman is bitchy and doesn’t kow tow to them that it proves women are “just as bad”, which is a whole other question, isn’t it?

No, that’s not it. Had it marked at one point. I’ll find it again over the weekend.

What a remarkably gutsy father-and-daughter team! All best wishes to them as they deal with state-supported terrorism.

they seem to think that if a woman is bitchy and doesn’t kow tow to them that it proves women are “just as bad”

Seem to think? I thought that was proven fact.

Boxturtle (Ducking and running)

Well, I sure know a lot of women I don’t want to be around. But, I try not to generalize individuals. It’s the whole culture that concerns me.
Personally, I think we’d all be better off with equality and respect for each others differences instead of trying to make everybody fit into some Bronze Age biblical out-dated model.
All you have to do is look around the world and see whats come out of THIS paradigm of losing all that is sacred in our lives.
SOMETHING’S gotta be sacred or we’re worse than animals, by far. THEY don’t destroy their habitats.
I trace it all back to the disrespect of Mother Earth and women as Her representatives.
A dangerous, maybe fatal, imbalance

You make excellent points. But, I’m not sure what “just as bad” is referring to. Just as bad as what?
Many men are threatened by women. Penis envy ain’t nuthin’ compared.
There are men who adore and even revere women, but sadly, they aren’t the ones making the rules.

They feel entitled to control any and every thing they desire.

We’ll miss you on Saturday morning then… unless you decide to post via phone.

There are “women” and there are “girls”. Doesn’t matter the age.
I must say, I’ve been called a “bitch” by way more females than males. (that I know of)

G’Morning KarenM
Do you have a topic for Saturday yet? I’ve been thinking that I’m just not into celebrating this year’s Independence Day. I’m just so disgusted with how our country is turning out. Hardly what the revolutionaries fought for, I think.

But how does the pro-choice side deal with those on the other side who persist in referring to the pro-choice community as murderers? That’s very loaded language.

I could see referring to the pro-lifers as anti-legal abortion. Language does make a difference.

Well, I can’t make them use less loaded language. I can only be responsable for my own choice of words.

Boxturtle (so for me: Pro-Life and Pro-Choice)

I’m just not jiggy with “pro-life”. It sets up the choicers as anti-life.
I think of the pro-lifers as The Authoritarians. And, I’m not into that much.
But, I hear what you’re saying about not having the ability to tell them what to call themselves.

That’s the whole deal! Just as bad implies to me that something is seriously wrong here!
But I’ve never heard of systemic rape being perpetrated by a bunch of women on anybody nor are there very many cases of sexual murder by women ( maybe one or two i9n history) which to me, is a very strange aberration of the drive to procreate. Let’s face it, you’re not going to have a baby if the momma’s dead.
Now THAT, to me, is an extreme end example of the hatred of women as being the fount of all evil and a graphic description of something serious awry in the male attitude toward the female and the power thingy, which MUST be preserved at all costs. And it originated in …..America
As I said, I believe the fascists use the religious to promote divisions and fracturing of societies they want to control and then, everyone wind sup being controlled

I’ve met very few grownups in my life of either gender.

Sure and don’t think for a minute they don’t’ know that. they PR’d the issue to a fine point

I don’t know if that attitude started in America. I think it goes back a long, long time.
There’s an interesting book called When God Was A Woman which deals with the history of males being threatened by the feminine.
PS (on edit) I just looked at your About Me in the myfdl profile. You crack me up, sister. May I call you sister?

I’ve got that book, but I sorta got lost in the author’s many names for the Goddess in various regions.
The book I learned the most from was by Joseph Campbell “Occidental Mythology” I highly recommend it!
You can find it sometimes on eBay.
The biggest problem is that when the matriarchal civilizations were over-run by the Ind- Europeans in Greece and the Fertile Crescent and the Indo- Aryans in India is that they destroyed as much evidence of the prior civilization as they could. there are site discovered where the Goddess figures were smashed to bits.
then, Justinian put the capper on the whole thing when he burned the Library at Alexandria, Egypt so that none of this could be known and christainity would reign supreme.
But some things survived and were interpreted as “fertility figures” by men, of course. as archeology became a bit more enlightened, the men and women archeologists started to form different conclusions.
Most of the sites? Iraq.
gives ME pause….and a tail, now that we’ve pretty much destroyed that country and those sites too.
Makes me think that it wasn’t only for oil, if you know what I mean; not to mention the destruction of the Iraq museum.
It almost seems like another run of the Indo-Europeans at whatever they missed centuries ago.
We’re ion deep shit. We don’t’ know our origins and we can’t learn from the past if it’s been conveniently destroyed.
And here we are, looking for Eden while destroying the only way to get back to it.

Of course, you can call me sister, sister! ;^)

and yeah, sexual murder has been around a loooong time. Maybe I say America because once they identified it, there were so very many here as opposed to other countries. but they’re catching up now.

Most anti-abortion folks don’t give a damn about the life of the child. If they did, they would be spending their time and other resources on adoption, health care, Head Start, etc. I see lots of fundamentalists in Kansas with their dead fetus, child pornography posters, but where are their adoption programs? As George Carlin noted, “Why aren’t they adopting crack babies? No. That’s something Christ would do.”

And it doesn’t seem that many of them care about the sanctity of life either because so often they are also in support of war. A more apt description is that they are control addicts.

Another fascinating and ironic thing for fundamentalist anti-abortion folks is their very recent idea that life begins at conception. How did this come to be? Advances in science and medical technology made it possible to “see” the fetus in a way that was not possible a hundred years ago. Before the science that allowed this to happen–and when child mortality was much higher–many thought life began at birth, christening, or a similar later date when the sould entered the child.

“For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.” Ecclesiastes 3:19 KJV

I guess women in Kansas should stop voting Republican and take to the streets to defend their rights.

Is it too late to abort Republicans?

Sorry for the late response…Thanks for your thoughts and insights.
Later.

You are probably right…for so long the choice debate appeared to have been won, and thus neglected, esp as younger women did not get involved, iirc.

I agree. I recognize that we can’t necessarily tell the other side what language to use, but I am heartily sick of the media playing along with the very loaded, negative language that the forced pregnancy at all cost crowd uses.

I reiterate that I am waiting for the day that some thoughtful people who opposed legal abortion will be willing to discuss that accurate sexuality education and full access to all means of contraception-natural family planning, the pill, IUD, etc. are legitimate ways to reduce the unplanned pregnancy rate.

Finally, so these people have sincere religious convictions. That is why we have to have separation of church and state.

vive la vérité

http://goo.gl/Mptsq

http://dinkypage.com/revelation

Pro life= pro fetus. There are two lives involved in a pregnancy. One of them is already a living, breathing woman who, if the “pro life” consortorium had their way would be required to give vital nutrients from her own body to another without a choice. Pregnancy itself is a risky undertaking. You risk having your kidneys blocked off, diabetes, seizures and a whole host of things. This is something that the “pro life movement” doesn’t acknowledge though because it means recognizing that the movement would have to be “pro lives”- plural form. There is little to no concern for the poor hapless female they wish to force to risk her life to bring new life into this world-none.

There isn’t a single “sincere” thing about there convictions. If you are a Christian there is no such thing as “death” for the poor, little ,innocent fetus. Being a Christian means believing in life everlasting.

The pro life movement is about hypocrisy.

I call them hypocritical control freaks who apparently don’t get the whole “free will” thing.

Surely if you want to pontificate, you’ll want to learn how to use “there” there.

And Catholicism isn’t even sending their little souls to Limbo anymore, so where’s the down side?

They can’t get the free will thing. Theirs is a cosmology that offers no real choice by insisting that one conform or be damned. If such is their reality, why even think about, much less act on, such a moot proposition as free will? And like good authoritarian followers everywhere, once they have surrendered their own intellect and actions to Control, they seek to force others to do the same.

Then there’s the whole cult thing. Very scary.

Consider that the unwanted child is the one whose
singularity (science/) soul (religion) is least likely
to be saved.

These in fact are the likeliest “bad” gays to come, who
if anyone “bad” was foreseen, was them, not the utterly
normal ones occurring to the numerical genetic advantage
“of the group.”

http://goo.gl/O5Qcu

http://goo.gl/HTped

These will also be the mysognists and the bullies.

Not really. I’m good with being the Emily Dickenson of the internet.