Bribes work. AT&T gave money to GLAAD, and now the gay rights organization is supporting the AT&T-T-Mobile merger. La Raza is mouthing the talking points of the Mortgage Bankers Association on down payments. The NAACP is fighting on debit card rules. The Center for Budget and Policy Priorities and the Economic Policy Institute supported the extension of the Bush tax cuts back in December.
While it seems counter-intuitive that a left-leaning organization would support illiberal extensions of corporate power, in fact, that is the role of the DC pet liberal. This dynamic of rent-a-reputation is greased with corporate cash and/or political access. As the entitlement fight comes to a head, it’s worth looking under the hood of the DC think tank scene to see how the Obama administration and the GOP are working to lock down their cuts to social programs.
And so it is that the arch-enemy of Social Security, Pete Peterson, rented out the good name of Franklin Delano Roosevelt, the reputation of the Center for American Progress, and EPI. All three groups submitted budget proposals to close the deficit and had their teams share the stage with Republican con artist du jour Paul Ryan. The goal of Peterson’s conference was to legitimize the fiscal crisis narrative, and to make sure that “all sides” were represented.
Now this tidy fact is not obvious if you check the Peterson Foundation publicity for its “Fiscal Summit:”
On Wednesday, May 25, 2011, senior Administration officials, policy experts and Democratic and Republican elected leaders will come together in Washington to discuss solutions to the nation’s fiscal challenges at the 2011 Fiscal Summit: Solutions for America’s Future, convened by the Peter G. Peterson Foundation…..The American Enterprise Institute, Bipartisan Policy Center, Center for American Progress, Economic Policy Institute, Heritage Foundation and Roosevelt Institute Campus Network will present and discuss their own proposed packages of solutions for achieving long-term fiscal sustainability at the Summit. These leading policy organizations, representing diverse perspectives, received grants from the Peter G. Peterson Foundation to develop comprehensive plans to address the nation’s projected long-term debt and deficits.
Why, after spending considerable resources, such as a website called New Deal 2.0, with virtually daily posts by Roosevelt fellows debunking deficit terrorism, and more formal work, such as a well-researched and argued paper by Tom Ferguson and Rob Johnson debunking deficit cutting in general and assaults on entitlements in particular, has the Roosevelt Institute cast its lot with a sworn enemy? Make no mistake, not only did the Institute undermine its raison d’etre by attaching its name to the Peterson anti-entitlements campaign, but as we’ll discuss later, the end product, as would be expected, bolstered particular initiatives that are contrary to FDR’s legacy, the Institute’s more general “progressive” objectives, and sound economics.
As the sorry history of drug funded research shows and this example confirms, sponsored research has this funny way of delivering findings flattering to its funders. At best, whoever championed this unholy alliance at Roosevelt is guilty of a spectacular lapse of judgment. At worst, this is naked careerism, selling out one’s sponsor to curry favor with more powerful backers. One way to assure one’s influence and job security in the foundation realm is access to big donors. Who better to cultivate than one of the freest spenders in the economics policy space?
The Roosevelt Institute is far from the only example of left-wing institutions having their missions undermined and eventually controlled by conservative patrons. We’ve complained before about the cluelessness of left-leaning organizations in the US. One of the big reasons that what is now the center of the political spectrum here is extreme right pretty much everywhere else is that there has been an orchestrated, forty-year campaign to make American values consistent with the needs and interests of large corporations.
Doubt me? Dial the clock back to the Eisenhower era. The highest marginal income tax rate was 91%. Ike, a Republican, was firmly of the view that New Deal programs were a permanent feature of the political landscape. From a 1954 letter to his brother Ed:
Now it is true that I believe this country is following a dangerous trend when it permits too great a degree of centralization of governmental function….But to attain any success it is quite clear that the Federal government cannot avoid or escape responsibilities which the mass of the people firmly believe should be undertaken by it. The political processes of our country are such that if a rule of reason is not applied in this effort, we will lose everything–even to a possible and drastic change in the Constitution. This is what I mean by my constant insistence upon “moderation” in government. Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid.
Because the notion of having government policies promote the welfare of the middle class was so widely shared, it seemed inconceivable that these values could ever come under assault. Yet anyone who saw that the Commie-bashing of the 1950s was followed by the radicalism of the later 1960s would conclude that the American psyche was capable of large shifts, and there was no reason to leave this process to chance.
We’ll skip over how the process of moving America to the right was launched; we cover that ground in short form in ECONNED; readers can also check Bill Black’s discussion of its founding document, a memo by top corporate lawyer and later Supreme Court Justice Lewis Powell staking out its objectives and many of its key tactics.
At the risk of oversimplifying such a complex, multifaceted campaign, several elements appear to be critical to its success. First was the sheer amount of resources devoted to it: an imperial armada of think tanks, advertising dollars, political donations, polling and focus group road testing. Second and related was the creation of viable, lucrative career paths for those who signed up for the cause. Third was the utter denial, followed by deer-in-the-headlights paralysis, within the left as to the effectiveness and relentlessness of this effort. Too many assumed that ordinary people would never sign up for policies that were detrimental to their well being. They failed to understand that people vote based on identity much more than interests, and a concerted effort at rebranding could make conservative economic policies sound attractive by linking them to success. Only losers could possibly be in support of redistribution and social safety nets (and they have been increasingly portrayed as parasites). Fairness went out the window; plutocracy was in.
The success of this effort has been so complete that its organizers are now engaged in what in military terms would be depicted as a mopping-up operation, that of cleaning out the last pockets of isolated resistance. One of the key steps is the conversion of what were once left-leaning organizations and think tanks into message-carriers for the right. Mind you, while the end result is very much like that of parasitic fungus turning ants into zombies and killing them so they can become a food source (eeew), the process requires a tad more finesse.
Just as the Democrats pretend to offer an alternative to Mussolini-style corpocracy when they are loyal servants of big businesses donors, so to does the image of diversity of opinion in the foundation/think tank world serve as useful cover for control that the right wing has achieved over messaging on economic issues.
We’ve discussed some examples of conservative parasites gaining control of once-liberal hosts in earlier posts. In the UK, the formerly solidly leftie think tank Demos has now been successfully colonized by the right via its increased, and now near total dependence on conservative funders. Yet it continues to play on its historical brand, using its “Open Left” logo on papers that promote bald faced bank friendly twattle, thus misleading the public into thinking that there is right-left consensus on what to do about banks, which they urge should be somewhere between nothing and helping them even more.
In the US, the brass-knuckle leader of the effort to convert the tattered remnants of the left to the conservative cause is the long standing entitlement foe, billionaire Blackstone Group co-founder Pete Peterson. His Peterson Foundation provides funding for a large array of organizations, including initiatives at his think tank, the Peterson Institute. We’ve discussed various Peterson efforts on this blog: the Peterson Foundation’s “America Speaks” program, which used a series of faux town hall meetings with openly manipulative facilitators to try to deliver focus group type results depicting broad-based willingness to cut entitlements to reduce the budget deficit. That plan backfired, not only failing to deliver the desired Potemkin consensus, but also generating bad press for its ham-handedness.
Another scheme was Peterson’s use of the highly-respected Columbia Teachers College to develop a program to carry a deficit scare message to high school students in the form of “fiscal responsibility” education. As Dean Baker wrote:
No one has done more than the billionaire private-equity investor Peter G. Peterson to stir America’s anxiety over deficits, debt, and what Peterson (among others) considers out-of-control entitlement-program spending. Those same concerns now lie at the heart of a “fiscal responsibility” curriculum being developed for America’s high schools. The curriculum bears the stamp of Columbia University’s prestigious Teachers College, but reflects the focus suggested by the Peter G. Peterson Foundation, which provided $2.4 million in funding for the project.
Teachers College gave Remapping Debate access to a set of 24 lessons set to be test-taught in four states this spring prior to a wider roll-out in 2011-12. Heavily weighted toward the themes and arguments of Peterson and other deficit hawks, the trial lessons could be seen as part of an effort by one of the country’s wealthiest men, now 82, to spread his gospel to coming generations…
Note this unholy alliance began when the Teachers College approached the Peterson Foundation for a mere $50,000 grant to devise a course to teach high school students about personal finance. Peterson dangled much more money before the college and imposed its own agenda.
It isn’t clear how much the Roosevelt Institute got beyond thirty pieces of silver for selling out its brand, but the Peterson campaign got plenty of value for its money. The Roosevelt contribution came form a network of college students it had established in 2004 to promote “progressive activism”. Yet their paper was presented as a “Millenials” “citizen-produced deficit reduction plan” product, it was allegedly stood for the views of an entire generation. On par with the “America Speaks” approach of any outreach hopefully being mistaken as representative or thorough, the report’s authors “engaged” 1000 people “in person” and 2000 online. With no methodological rigor (neutral questions and consistent survey methods, for starters) this is a garbage in, garbage out process. But it’s pretty clear from the apocalyptic tone that this was a “sentence first, verdict afterwards” process:
Young people across the country recognize that those in power have made choices over the last 15 years that led us down the path to fiscal turmoil….Any solution to our fiscal trouble must not only resolve the gap between spending and revenue but also address the underlying causes.
Let’s consider whether this scaremongering is well founded. This is one small piece of a much larger argument in the Ferguson/Johnson article:
Now just ask the obvious question that a citizen or politician who had any choice would before embarking on the austerity route to budgetary consolidation: What are the chances that the policy will work? That is, actually reduce the deficit while also stimulating growth?
The striking fact that emerges from their [Alberto Alesina's and Silvia Ardagna's] tables is the meager number of successes. They indentify 107 separate cases of major fiscal contraction in the OECD between 1970 and 2007. Only 26 of these 107 qualify by even their Rube Goldberg definition as leading to “growth.” Now also set aside all qualms about definitions and whether countries were booming or in recession when they started cu#ing the budget. Just focus on the overarching pa#ern: Only nine of those “growth” cases actually achieved major reductions in debt to GDP ratios. That shouts out a demoralizing result: that 92% of the time countries tried fiscal contraction, it did not lead to growth with big reductions in debt to GDP ratios. We are not surprised that even a recent IMF study has now repudiated Alesina and Ardagna’s core argument. As Ireland is now discovering, the royal road to reducing debt to GDP ratios runs elsewhere. Arguments that current levels of debt to GDP profoundly threaten future U.S. economic growth are mere assertions crying out for empirical evidence. They should carry no weight in national policy debates.
This article also has a long section discussing the considerable shortcomings of the CBO projections on which the student paper relies, in particular its failure to calculate net rather than gross debt. The famed Carmen Reinhart/Kenneth Rogoff warnings about Bad Things Happening when government debt exceeds 90% of GDP is based on net debt levels; making that adjustment alone takes even the dire version of the long-term forecasts out of the danger zone. Other dubious assumptions are its oddly low productivity growth projections.
Gee, if these students had done their homework, they’d understand the blowout in debt levels was due to the global financial crisis, so if they want to “address underlying causes” they should first and foremost urge ruthless action to curb risk-taking at the TBTF banks. Had they merely bothered to read the Roosevelt paper by Ferguson and Johnson, or consult pretty much any account of why government debt levels have risen they would know that:
The “explosion” story can be immediately dismissed. The simple fact is that the deficit did not swell tidally until the financial crisis hit. While George W. Bush’s tax cuts destroyed the Clinton budget surpluses, tax revenues poked along at a rate that kept the deficit from blowing out until the economic equivalent of Hurricane Katrina hit. It was the one-two punch of the bank bailouts and the Great Recession that led to today’s giant gap between general revenues and expenditures.
Yes, the plan has a “Too Big to Fail” tax (described only at the wishful thinking level), but as we’ve discussed, following the Bank of England’s director of stability Andrew Haldane, taxes will never work to curb bankster adventurism; a high enough levy would wipe out the industry, so prohibition, meaning tough regulations, is the only viable remedy. Moreover, the paper touts a faddish, noxious idea for further financializing the economy from the faux liberal group, the Center for American Progress:
Folks, what will the net effect of this be? To introduce a ton more intermediaries and complexity into the provision of public services, which will give all the participants the opportunity to rip out more fees. And who will invest in projects with such uncertain returns? Investors will demand super high expected returns, which means even less goes into the provision of the actual services. And you’ll also need an a new cohort of assessors to determine if and how much the projects should pay out, leading to higher annual charges. The “lower costs” is the Big Lie cubed.
There’s also more sneaky pro banking industry policies included in the very skeletal discussion of corporate tax reform. It urges lowering tax rates and eliminating “tax expenditures”. While the corporate tax code could use a scrub, some of its complexity is due to the difference in various types of companies (the most obvious being the depreciation tax shield). The “lower tax rate” idea is usually bundled with a proposal to end the US policy of taxing corporations on their worldwide income. If this plan also envisages going to territorial taxation, that’s another boondoggle to big international companies, since it will be even easier for them to dodge paying taxes in the US.
The paper also appears to cherry-pick the recommendations made in another Roosevelt Institute paper, one by Joe Stiglitz. He advocates looking at the asset as well as the liability side of the government balance sheet, and in particular, investing in infrastructure, since it can generate very high returns. But this sort of idea is underplayed in the Peterson paper, and ideas like a bonus tax to correct incentives are completely absent.
It also stunningly enshrines the canard that tort reform will have a meaningful impact on health care costs and therefore (you have to love the Orwellian language) proposes to reform “the way Americans seek redress for medical malpractice.” Trial lawyers are big Democrat donors; they are a perennial target of the right, and the inclusion of this idea is a sign of conservative influence on the document.
The president of the Roosevelt Institute just announced that he is stepping down. I can only hope the board looks seriously into what led to this embarrassing dance with the devil and takes measures to assure this type of compromise of the Institute’s fundamental purpose can never happen again. It would also serve them well to conduct a broad-based search to find a leader who is truly dedicated to carrying on the proud legacy of FDR. There are so many fauxgressives in the marketplace that this will take more effort and scrutiny than they might imagine.
Yves Smith blogs at NakedCapitalism
Photo of Roosevelt Memorial by dctourism





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Thank you, Yves.
Ditto that. Thank you, Yves. You hereby receive an honorary Ph.D. from FDL in Advanced Veal Pen Studies.
This may be the most depressing sentence you wrote, Yves:
New Deal 2.0 still does have some good authors. Center for American Progress is indeed “faux-liberal”. I confess I can’t even make sense out of the “Social Impact Bonds” idea. WTH?
The high school tainted-econ-education is sad. I wrote a blog for another site about Rupert Murdoch getting into the educational software business with Joel Klein, former ed. chancellor in NYC, and wondering what sort of mischief that portended. I got smacked down hard for it; all commenters claimed Murdoch was about making money, not slanting narratives. Hah!
Wonderful post.
Excellent article, Yves. And thanks much for the link to Ferguson and Johnson.
Thank you!
I saw someone from Roosevelt on Fox the other day…students for fixing SS or something like that..they were calling for “reforms” Privatizing SS…Pete Peterson has it covered both ways: MSNBC/CNN and Fox…what a rotten son of a bitch he is…Obama is in bed with him too…I have been never so down about this country as I am now…
This situation is the “veal pen” writ large.
Conservatives have now found a way to neutralize non-profit advocacy groups. I suppose the way they handled the AARP during the Medicare Part D legislation became the template.
Thanks much, Yves, for this stunning report.
And well deserved.
Thank you Yves.
Your article answers a lot of questions some of us may have had about what has happened to the progressive left that was so vocal during the Bush Regime.
Excellent read.
Thanks Yves. Thanks Jane for front paging it.
Center for American Progress…run by careerist.
Reminds me of MoveOn.These people call ‘emselves progressives cuz they can make a $ doing it.
They really aren’t folks.
Thanks for the diary Yves.
Pete Peterson is right behind the Koch brothers on the “most likely to attempt a Bond movie villian-like plot to take over the world” list.
Wolves in sheep’s clothing.
This is a very good article. The letter from Ike to his brother was very interesting.
Nope. Can’t sell bullshit without the roach-like creeping around in the dark, lies and pay-offs.
Veal Pen writ large, indeed.
I’ve heard *many* in younger generations waxing lyrical (only way to put it) about how Soc Sec is “only for my grandparents.”
The PTB have really done a number on Gen’s X/Y/Z to get them to drink the Kool Aid that there’s just “no way” Soc Sec can “survive” as it presently stands. And I’m talking about some highly educated folks, too.
I hate to say “we are so screwed,” but it sure seems that way.
Excellent article; thanks very much.
sheesh. Well I certainly agree that Murdoch is about making pots and stacks of money, but the *way* he manages to do that is by slanting the narrative, mainly.
I think you’re being a bit harsh on these progressive organizations.
For one, it is technically true that it’s perfectly possible to do things such as 1) grow the economy, 2) achieve full employment, 3) reduce income and wealth economy, 4) address resource depletion and climate change AND 5) balance the budget and even reduce the Federal debt. It’s even perhaps possible to “reduce government” at the same time because so much of the current government is involved with unproductive and counter-productive activities such military spending, the security state, the drug and sex wars, and incarceration. It would be technically possible to create a budget that say, took in $6 trillion in tax revenues and spent $5.5 trillion in intelligent outlays that would be highly stimulative because the outlays could have economic multiplier effects in the 1.5-1.75 range.
While I will cede that the focus on deficits instead of jobs is absurd, there is a danger in saying that “deficits don’t matter” a la Dick Cheney. Then you run the danger of reinforcing a rightist argument which ties government deficits and debt to progressive policies (when the opposite is more nearly true).
Your argument seems to be by participating, these organizations got co-opted into the Peterson message. You could end up correct on that. But what’s the alternative? To be continually ignored?? The fact is that there are any number of intelligent people who have put together budgetary proposals that accomplish everything that needs to be done and can actually expand, not hack, the social safety net. The problem is is that the Right-leaning media never gives them any attention or serious consideration. Only the slash-and-burners get put on Meet the Press.
Maybe it was wrong for these organizations to participate. But hey, any left-leaning voices that try to get heard among the idiot clamor when the TV cameras are running have my sympathy.
-stewartm
They’re essentially waiting for the educated baby boomers — the ones who grew up before the public-school systems nationwide, especially in California, were gutted — to die off.
They were hoping to have finished us all off by 2000. But the internet allowed us to find each other and network, and unlike them we have the advantage of speaking truth and not needing to tie ourselves 24/7 into incoherent knots of cognitive dissonance to defend our policies and actions.
Technical correction: the excellent piece credited to Dean Baker above was actually written by James Lardner (http://www.remappingdebate.org/print?content=node%2F400)
Thank you Yves for your consistently honest approach to financial markets and the economy. I also appreciate your blog at nakedcapitalism. As for NewDeal 2.0, “centrists” such as Bo Cutter (a cheerleader for the Obama administration) have long been undermining that website.
Nevermind an honorarium, how about a merger. This post is insightful and well argued, it’s TREMENDOUS. It’s so good, I’m betting it gets NO mention anywhere, certainly not by the RI or any of PP’s true believers.
THANKS.
Yves Smith’s suggestion that the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities was in some way “bribed” to support the tax-cut-UI compromise that Congress struck in December is outrageous and completely false. The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities has not taken a penny from the Peterson Foundation or anyone else with an interest in extending high-income tax cuts.
Had Smith bothered to check the record, he would have found that few policy organizations in DC have issued as many reports and analyses assailing the high-income tax cuts, from 2001 — when they were first considered — through the present day, as has the Center.
We consistently called for the expiration of the upper-income tax cuts at the end of 2010, and supported the December compromise because we were convinced its defeat by the last Congress in December would lead to a more unfavorable deal under the new Congress that took office in January. We think the track record of the new Congress to date bears out that judgment.
“Your argument seems to be by participating, these organizations got co-opted into the Peterson message. You could end up correct on that. But what’s the alternative? To be continually ignored??”
Jane isn’t in the veal pen, yet she doesn’t get ignored…she isn’t ignored because she isn’t in the veal pen, which the same also goes for Glenn Greenwald.
“The problem is is that the Right-leaning media never gives them any attention or serious consideration”
How is it that Jane, Glenn, ACLU etc get on TV…you’re not suggesting that they’re co-opted?
Once they buy into the Peterson nonsense they’re no longer “left leaning” organizations.
New Deal 2.0 was always a mixed bag anyway. There were some decent authors but there was also right wingers like Bo Cutter.
As for budgets, it is indeed not possible to balance the budget while at the same time doing everything else which you mentioned. And anyway, balanced budgets amount to an arbitrary goal. Balanced budgets at the Federal level are a nonsensical goal.
Don’t whine, ask Jane to allow you to debate the issue with Yves on FDL. We’ll read it.
“We consistently called for the expiration of the upper-income tax cuts at the end of 2010, and supported the December compromise because we were convinced its defeat by the last Congress in December would lead to a more unfavorable deal under the new Congress that took office in January.”
No what was provided was mealy-mouthed justification:
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3340
I say it is mealy-mouthed because obviously if Obama could veto in 2012 and make his case to the public then, he could have done the exact same thing in December. It’s the exact same Congress either way. Obama didn’t have to make a deal as the default would have been to revert to Clinton-era taxation…which just makes it look like either the Center is either a blindly partisan excuse-maker or is more conservative than Bill Clinton.
For the lucid argument Jane continually brings to the table, she’s VERY MUCH IGNORED by National media, just as Dean Baker is. To suggest otherwise is just silly.
Good see you over Ives, Thanks Jane.
I really like a lot of your folks’ work, but your naivete in supporting the tax cut plan was stunning. The DC establishment had already been calling for deficit consolidation for some time. How could creating a hundreds-of-billions hole with a quite low multiplier not set up the next Congress to make massive cuts to core services (and quite possibly SS and Medicare soon)? Now the Right can get away with saying deficit spending doesn’t work. Also it’s amazing how many think tanks supporting the deal in the name of unemployment benefits ignored the fact that with the Make Work Pay tax credit expiring taxes actually went up for people making below $20k! Not only is that deeply unfair for the poor but quite a blow to demand.
Two corrections:
Center for American
ProgressFucking.CenterOn
BudgetBullshitThat was long, but good reading.
Here’s another correction: And you’ll also need
ana new cohort of assessorsOther than that… spot on.
If the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities is unable to recognize why the acceptance of a grant from the Peter G. Peterson Foundation might at the very least provide the appearance of being hypocrites, then you deserve to lose credibility. Unfortunately, those principles you “supposedly” believe in also take a hit as a result.
Being a bit harsh?
By being cooped into the Peterson message they are no longer spreading a progressive message. In fact worse, they are giving progressive cover to conservative policy goals. Why would you ever want to stand with these organizations, just because they use the word “progressive”? I’m sorry, but that absolutely does more harm then good. If I have to choose between being “being ignored” and giving conservative policy goals progressive cover than I’ll take “being ignored”, thank you.
(Apologize for the double post, thought I has hit “reply”….
Being a bit harsh?
By being cooped into the Peterson message they are no longer spreading a progressive message. In fact worse, they are giving progressive cover to conservative policy goals. Why would you ever want to stand with these organizations, just because they use the word “progressive”? I’m sorry, but that absolutely does more harm then good. If I have to choose between being “being ignored” and giving conservative policy goals progressive cover than I’ll take “being ignored”, thank you.
I rather famously remember a moment in the HCIR debate, when Lawrence O’Donnell had this show about “progressive critics of Obama’s Health Care reform”. And his two “liberal” panelists he interviewed about this topic were FOR ObamaCare. None of the critics like Greenwald or Jane got an invitation.
And that’s on MSNBC with a somewhat accommodating host. How many invitations do Jane or Glenn get on the other networks, compared to the milquetoast liberals, let alone the austerity hawks??
-stewartm
It is possible, because of the fact that spending has a multiplier effect. $1 of government spending paid for by $1 of taxation, if spent on high-multiplier items, will still expand GDP because the net increase in net GDP will exceed $1 (more like $1.5 to $2). I.e., the net change in GDP would be positive. “Tax and spend” isn’t thus a *bad* thing; it’s a *good* thing. It’s most tax *cuts* that are usually bad ($1 of lost revenue, < $1 of GDP effect).
If someone objected that this would have to mean that the government would have to massively shift its spending priorities, away from the military, away from the prison state, away from the security state, away from all the unproductive and counter-productive spending we do now–I would agree. The government would also have to spend and tax more to get the same positive effect on GDP under the constraint of a balanced budget than it does by deficit spending–I don't dispute that either. But I have also argued that high taxes on the wealthy and on corporations help prevent economically destructive activity and thus are good things in their own right. So that's a possible plus, not a minus, to me.
I don’t believe in the Cheneyism that “deficits don’t matter”. I agree that now is not the time to be concerned with deficits; I think we should have a goal of full employment. But that doesn’t mean that deficits don’t matter forever. At the very least the goal should be to shrink the debt-to-GDP ratio, which is exactly what the high taxe rates did.
-stewartm
Getting co-opted is something that gets done to you. Sometimes it gets done in spite of you.
Which then furthers rightwing policy goals. Not playing in most contests doesn’t mean you win, it usually means you lose by default.
Having watched in my youth progressives shy away from debates with conservatives, refusing to take them on due to one fear or another, often of concerns that such debates would lead to rightwing positions being thought “credible”, led to Reagan. It made the righties seem to have all the policy answers while the lefties only spoke amongst themselves, marching around with fists in the air and parroting slogans. What the lefties of that time did not seem to comprehend is marching and sloganeering doesn’t convince anyone not already convinced.
Of course, the right did not have the policy answers, and the left’s positions were based on more than just slogans. But not being willing to go on the enemy’s home field, to take them on, so to speak, and to expose the policy errors of the right hurt them back then. It was a mistake for them to have avoided those confrontations back then, and it’s a mistake for them to avoid them now. Especially now, when our mainstream TV time is so limited.
-stewartm
I think the “lady” doth protest too much.
Seriously? Are you seriously here writing this “defense”. This weak-ass “defense”. And you’re not even trying. I mean did you literally put that together in the last 5 seconds.
It’s so weak and half-assed I can’t even respect the effort. Because there was no effort.
Come on. At least try to fake it.
I know everyone in DC doesn’t even bother with the pretense. But when you’re going to royally screw over Americans, shouldn’t you at least pretend? How about a “it’s not you, it’s me”? Or “baby I love you, those others meant nothing to me”. But we don’t even get that anymore?!
WTF. It’s like you just don’t respect us anymore. Is that it? No more reach arounds? No more fore-play? No more post-coital spooning? Just wham bam thank you “ma’am”.
All I’m asking is for a little pretense. Just a little. Maybe a few poetic words. You know, buy me flowers and make promises you don’t intend to keep. Like the good old days. At least when we got roggered, we also got the pretense. And now we don’t even get the pretense of lube anymore. I mean WTF people?
Alright, I promised myself I wouldn’t … But if you can’t even bother with the pretense … then so be it … You’ve lost that loving feeling.
You have. And now you’re making booty-calls to us when you want some. Well this booty is strictly off limits. And delete my number from your phone.
First standards go up.
If they go down, then … they’re NOT STANDARDS!!!
Go to bed with snakes, and don’t be surprised if you get bit.
What you suggest is the tantamount, but not the same, as your implications.
Secondly, your idea to “debate” the bat-shite crazies is insane. Going into their field? To … I got no idea? Humoring the mentally disturbed is not logical or advantageous.
How does one debate bat-shite crazy? How does one debate God? He’s real … no, he’s not, yes, he is, no he’s not, etc …
They’re still stuck on trickle down. Yes, maybe it will work. Maybe in 50 years, we will see something. MAYBE. And maybe pigs will fly … in 50 years … MAYBE.
And you want rational thinking people to go onto their “field”, ie. the field of bat-shite crazy? And do … what? Use language that they can understand? Hell, I don’t even know what language they speak. Their logic structures are akin to psychiatric patients with delusions.
They are thought “credible” by “believers”. Will talking to them in any language help? Seriously? They’re getting a “message” from the big G. They speak in tongues for God’s sake (no pun intended). And they encourage this delusional behavior in the Bible belt. They literally encourage insanity. Hearing voices? Yes, that’s what they consider as “good”. Sorry, can’t get on board with that idea.
Lastly, I agree that a different tactic should have been used. I agree 100%!!!
On the results-oriented scorecard, progressives are about as useful as a solar-powered flashlight. TO those who disagree, please look at the score.
However, Cons are bat-shite crazy. And/or completely immoral. And/or completely greedy, selfish, narcissistic, anti-JC promoting rhetoric, ie. fear and hate. They literally scare me.
And of course the liberals are either useless, have sold out to the same masters as the Cons, and they sold out the poor. Liberals don’t scare me. I just pity them.
But that’s why a productive strategy is needed. Now that they literally own the place, and all the power and money they have, there are few options left. However productive organizing of local groups can still have significant effects. That is until the PTB cancel elections (or fully buy them). And then it’s game over.
I don’t know what bubble you lived in during your youth to say the “progressives would shy away from debates with conservatives” or just pump their fists, because that certainly wasn’t my experience. You are doing a complete disservice to all those who have fought hard over the years to make this country a better place for everyone. Is that your intention?
Why is this post not up to #1 on FireDogLake Website?
With the fund drive and all…would have thought that folks like me who are holding back signing up might have gotten on board and given $45.00 to the cause.
If posts like Naked Capitalism don’t get enough interest to get some donors…then what the hell is going on?
Sorry for being aggressive in tone…but, this is an excellent post and needs to be read.
What’s with this?
This was a direct to FDL front page post and not a diary at MyFDL that gets recommended. Else it most likely would have been up voted by many readers
Whoa, Yves is officially a Firedog now?!?!
I think we completely agree w/regard to full employment being the primary goal.
As for deficits, there’s a crazy wide gap between balanced budgets and Cheneyism.
On average, the federal government should always be running deficits. And in fact, they always have over any extended period of time. You can go back at least as far as Abraham Lincoln and sum up the surplus/deficits over any ten year period and the sum will always end up being a deficit.
How large should the deficit be? It should be full-employment sized.
And yeah, I agree that we need a shift from military spending to domestic civilian spending. It’s either that or shift the defense money into the army corp of engineers and have them fix our crumbling infrastructure.
I have no idea what you’re referring to in this. Care to explain?
You don’t debate them to win over the bat-shit crazy. You debate them to win over the fence-sitters, and the non-crazy. You debate them on their field *because* the media treats them as “serious” and the TV cameras are rolling. It’s your chance to get your message over to a larger audience than the readership of FDL.
And even among the convinced non-crazy, let me tell you something: *It sometimes works*. There have been a number of times when confident conservatives thought, when they heard I was a lefty, approached me wanting to talk politics as they thought they could win me over. Yet what proceeded to happen is that in our discussions they learn and hear for perhaps the fist time in their lives that their “facts” aren’t facts, and they got information that they never got from their right-wing sources. I recall one young man, years ago, who ended up tracking from being a right-wing Focus on the Family supporter at the start of in our debates over the course of several years, into a left-wing socialist and an atheist to boot. Hmmm, think I went a little too far on that one? ;-)
That shows you what can be accomplished. There are many debaters we have better than I. Most of the right-wing talking heads are only good at monologues in front of a friendly, unquestioning, audience, like Rush Limbaugh. They’re terrible at give-and-take. We could knock their socks off and embarrass them in front of national audiences. But no, what I hear from too many on the left is that we shouldn’t even *try*. Here most in this thread are lambasting progressive organizations who are trying to turn the tables on a rightwing event to use it to air some left-wing ideas.
This is no different than when Jane has gone on Fox News to try to promote her ideas on an unfriendly news source. In that case too, people on Daily Kos have criticized her for doing that just like you’re criticizing the EPI and the Roosevelt Institute for showing up at the Pete Peterson. Me, on the other hand, think it’s an opportunity for us in both cases.
I all know is that talking only to the like-minded fails. You have to convince others who aren’t like you. And while the leaders of the conservative movement are sociopaths IMHO, and a few of the true believers are “batshit crazy”, the bulk of both the fence-sitters and the non-engaged and even many of current conservative rank-and-file aren’t. They can be won over, or at least have their allegiances to the Right weakened.
-stewartm
My high school and college youth was spent watching the Reaganites were gearing up to take power. I watched that train wreck occur as it happened. I saw it coming. The Reaganites, the YAFFers, the Young College Republicans, all had their supporters on campus. They spread leaflets and promoted books and wrote letters to the college newspaper. They were effective among many in my generation because they stuck to the issues and their propaganda provided reasonable-sounding if superficial “solutions” buttressed by cherry-picked facts. *Their arguments*, so unlike ours of the time, was to win over those not-convinced to their cause into voting for it.
How did the liberals and left respond to this? Well, you had many who simply took the ostrich response: they stuck their heads in the sand and pretended the Reaganites could never win: “I don’t believe the American people would ever embrace their solutions”, I remember a national figure saying. Other liberal politicians were already responding by “triangulating” to the right on some issues, which is a short-term tactic that in the long run only makes the public think that the right really must be on to something if “liberals” take their positions. You had left-leaning academics who dismissed right-wing arguments with a “I don’t want make these arguments seem credible by by taking the time to address them” which also makes it appear that you’re afraid of those arguments. I once asked one of my econ instructors on macroeconomics to give us his appraisal of conservative/libertarian economic theory, and that’s pretty much the answer he gave.
As for the college left on my campus, from the socialist groups to others, it was pretty much fists in the air and marches and sloganeering like “Power to the People!” and “People before Profits!” I subscribed to a relatively new magazine called Mother Jones, and I essentially got the same thing as my campus in print version. Not arguments to rebut the Right, but articles for the already-convinced. I did not start seeing the type of articles I thought we needed to have, actually taking apart and exposing the fundamental flaws of conservative economic and policy positions, until well into Reagan’s reign, when it was already too late. *That* was what was needed then, and our side didn’t provide it.
To win at the game of politics, you have to persuade people that your vision of things is the best one. Right now things have changed–the left wins all the arguments hands-down, but the Right controls the media. The only course of action insofar as I can see is that we have to go to their home field to play as the visiting team, so to speak, to get our message across. To continue the sports metaphor, that’s because our games aren’t televised.
-stewartm
You’re buying into the idea that the deficit/debt/debt-to-GDP ratio numbers are a problem. They are not! See: http://www.correntewire.com/tell_president_obama_and_everyone_else_theres_no_deficit_problem
The truth is the Government doesn’t need to meet all the above challenges and balance the budget too. In fact, balancing the budget will serve no useful function until the Government has spent enough to enable full employment. We have in excess of 20 million to fully employ before we have to worry about demand-pull inflation.
We’re certainly not suggesting any shying away from debates. Only not participating in debates with restricted frames. The Peterson summit required participants to accept the notion that there is a deficit crisis. There is no such crisis. It is a great error to believe that there is. And if you say it, but don’t believe then it is a great lie. The Government of the United States is the sole monopoly issuer of US currency. It cam never run out of money, or run short of money unless it refuses to make more of it. That is what Congress is now choosing to do. It is crying poverty and refusing to spend on social programs, education, infrastructure, energy, and jobs, while it spends as much it needs to on Wars and bailing banks out and providing corporate subsidies.
We need to present progressive budgets in line with the needs of people, without concern for deficits and debts. We need to create/spend whatever money is needed to fill these needs until we’re using all our productive capacity. Then we need to raise taxes on the wealthy to prevent inflation. Overtime that general orientation will lead to a return to the distribution of wealth we had in the 1960s and also the end of plutocracy.