First of all, I have zero interest in scolding anybody for being happy today. For dancing or singing or spraying champagne. For celebrating for the TV cameras, for Twitter, or just for themselves. For cracking jokes. We grieve how we grieve, and make no mistake, this is still grief. It’s impossible to get an A in it, and it’s grotesque to try. Lecturing others on how to do it right is just a way to draw attention to yourself, to make you the Virtuous Voice of Truth. I’ve never liked that voice. Ever.
But let me ask you this: Read this and tell me, could we have done this before now?
In an interview at CIA headquarters two weeks ago, a senior intelligence official said the two proud groups of American secret warriors had been “deconflicted and basically integrated” — finally — 10 years after 9/11. Indeed, according to accounts given to journalists by five senior administration officials Sunday night, the CIA gathered the intelligence that led to bin Laden’s location. A memo from CIA Director Leon Panetta sent Sunday night provides some hints of how the information was collected and analyzed. In it, he thanked the National Security Agency and the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency for their help. NSA figured out, somehow, that there was no telephone or Internet service in the compound. How it did this without Pakistan’s knowledge is a secret. The NGIA makes the military’s maps but also develops their pattern recognition software — no doubt used to help establish, by February of this year, that the CIA could say with “high probability” that bin Laden and his family were living there.
Could we have had the champagne at Ground Zero, could we have had the dancing and the singing, the silence and the reflection, the closure and the open wounds, without the past 10 years of pointless death in Iraq and Afghanistan? There were no military casualties from killing bin Laden, the president said, and it hit me like a fist in the gut. Could we have done this, brought justice however brutal, without killing another American soul?
There are times I go to a Pat Robertson-type place, I really do, and think about the karmic bitchslap we are so utterly due for what we’ve done. And I pray, almost, an argument, “lots of us tried to stop it.” Tried, of course, meaning nothing to the dead.
So this morning the wars continue, because after all they weren’t about bin Laden. If we had done this 10 years ago, would it have been enough? The president talked about how united we were on 9/11; I was working that day and every day thereafter, not too far from where he was, and he is telling us a pretty story, a pretty lie. We were not united. We were fractious and enraged, and quite a few Sikh and Indian men, quite a few innocent Muslim women, can attest to that if we choose to listen to them. In that furious fear-driven anger, would this have been enough?
Look at the pictures. Look at the joy and sorrow. You tell me.
A.
x-posted at First Draft



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Yep.
Bin Laden was never more than a pretext for wars that Bush and the Neocons already wanted.
Yup. An excuse…an evil excuse, no doubt, but nevertheless an excuse.
I didn’t personally give any weight to the surmise of some folks who thought OBL was killed at Tora Bora and frozen for the surprise ending to come…
But it sure did feed the narrative that 43 needed a boogieman to keep the country on edge forevah. Which he did. Like a Stradivarius.
As much as Obama has disappointed me, this time he did it right. There was never any need to invade anybody. Indeed, invading other countries in search of such non-state actors is actually counterproductive and only creates more terrorists that hate your guts.
And then?
Troops.
Home.
Now.
That’s what is next. Let’s resist the siren calls of the neo-cons and their paymasters, who want us to be more afraid, more vigilant, more aggressive. Just bring them ALL home and let them ALL tend to this country that we love.
Which may well have been why he called off the hunt just before they closed in on him.
All the people in the pictures appear to be young. Their generation is doing the fighting and dying. Oddly sad.
OT, but I do not know if you have seen this or not. Once again my native state shames and enrages me. I urge you to scroll down and sign the petition.
Creating more terrorists is what BushCheneyCo and their new hireling, Obama, are all about. Without terrorists constantly being refreshed, how would our Corporatacracy fight its profitable War On Terrorists?
Well, he did it better than he’s done most things, but I still think a trial might have been nice.
‘I just don’t give him that much thought.’
Therein lies the GWOT.
On edit: funny that, but it’s precisely this sentiment that made it impossible for them to actually take their eye off of him, lest he pop up in a surprising place and embarrass the hellouta them. Like downtown Paris. Or Cheboygan.
Signed. Thanks for bringing that to our attention.
True, but treating this as something to be dealt with by the intelligence services rather than the military is a huge improvement.
I really do not understand the celebrating.
It took us 10 years, 1.3 trillion dollars, and untold suffering to accomplish something the should (with a competent CIA) have take a few weeks.
As it might well have done had Bush not decided to respond militarily by invading the freaking country. I am glad he is gone, though like others I would have preferred a trial, but I am not celebrating.
Is this thing still turned on? Did I break it?
YEP :)
I can’t exactly put my finger on exactly what’s bothering me about it, but I find the celebrating obscene. I also generally find the actions of our government obscene (and much more destructive).
Hmm, I remember reading about some “National Detainee Handbooks” needed stat by April 29, 2011. Saw it on a number of progressive sites, but, at this time, googled this:
The U.S. Government needs 350,934 National Detainee Handbooks printed by 29 April 2011. Here’s a 2007 English version of the National Detainee Handbook. I don’t know if that’s the same document as what has been ordered below.
The GPO solicitation went out on 18 April and the handbooks must be delivered by 29 April. Is eleven days a short time for something like this? I have no idea, but clicking on “Jacket Number: 735-412/413” brings up a specification document, which states the following:
TIME CRITICAL:
Notify Ron Boyum at 312-353-3916 x 17 or at rboyum at gpo dot gov of the delivery status in the morning 2 days prior to the first shipment to meet the at destination delivery date. [sic]
This is a time-critical order. For the purpose of this contract, the provision in GPO Contract Terms Pub. 310.2 (Rev. 6-01) for schedule extensions does not apply. No automatic extensions of schedules will be made. All interested contractors must commit to the original schedule. Shipments must be made by a carrier that will guarantee delivery at destination within the specified schedule. Carrier’s “targets” in lieu of “guaranteed” deliveries will not be acceptable.
They seem pretty serious about needing the handbooks by 29 April.
Source: http://www.truthistreason.net/us-govt-printing-office-needs-350934-national-detainee-handbooks-printed-by-april-29th-2011
Hmm, wonder if there is a tie to yesterday’s announcement of OBL’s death?
Assumes facts not in evidence.
Anyone know what happened on 9/11 and why? Truthers need not respond.
I was in Pittsburgh, watching live TV (remote) reportage from Skanksville, interviews with several witnesses, before the FBI closed off the area and took control of the area and the information. All of it since scrubbed. Oh, never mind.
Dr,
I’ll say this more politely than I did last night (and was pummeled from all directions:)
I don’t think there is any way that OBL could have been taken alive. He knew full well what happened to KSM and the others. He would have killed himself first. (the little chickenshit.)
We know that at Tora Bora there were opportunities to eliminate him, but no one in the Bush admin would give the order. They wanted the bogeyman kept alive so they could continue their fear campaign.
Now that OBL is dead, let’s declare victory and bring our troops home.
It could be what Allison said:
We chalked up another body, threw ourselves a party as if it’s a done deal, and it is nowhere near done. We have to get the Constitution back from the clutches of fearmongers, for one thing. And that’s just one of the things, and it’s not a low hurdle.
Apart from the naked jingoism, I find it more than mildly distasteful to rejoice over death. My own feeling is sorrow for Bin Laden’s wasted life, when he had the money and the influence to affect the world positively rather than with violence. I’ll feel the same when Bush or Cheney dies, I suspect.
Indeed and Bin Laden’s death does nothing to reduce the threat of terrorism, which our own actions in Iraq and Afghanistan have dramatically escalated.
This administration and the previous one sure have brought home the need for the rule of law. My first priority for reconstruction is the return of habeas corpus.
Yes, DOJ, and specifically the Office of Legal Counsel, are completely bereft of the independent leadership that is required to serve the nation. To call a subservient AG ‘inappropriate’ is quite the understatement.
I can picture myself feeling relief at Cheney’s death, like the force of evil on the planet has diminished. No disrespect intended for Evil Pumas aka present company excluded.
On the night of 9/11 our class was talking about the events and the different news versions we were hearing. One of the students was from Egypt (married to a US citizen), his father was a dentist in Egypt, and he also hoped to become a dentist. He said with utter conviction that Osama bin Laden could not have been involved, he said he was a beloved man everywhere, and a humanitarian.
Cheney is as bad as Osama, IMO. Just as rigid, just as fanatical, and just as scary.
And just as unconcerned about the loss of human life.
That’s the bottom line, of course. Cheney didn’t/doesn’t care how many have to die as long as he gets his way.
And paid.
Cheney’s been responsible for death and destruction on a much greater scale than bin Laden.
Speaking of … check it.
OT– Canadian Federal election results mapped as polls report.
Here is a photo of President Obama and his team in the Situation Room watching the mission against Osama bin Laden unfold yesterday. Take a moment and look carefully at the facial expressions and body language of each of the key players in this photo. I found it interesting.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/whitehouse/5680724572/
The initial bombing of Afghanistan ten years ago was to destroy al Qaeda camps. That should have been the end of it, apart from an ongoing CIA effort to find al Qaeda leaders.
The best thing can come of this is if bin Laden’s death gives momentum to the July drawdown, but it’s just as likely the opposite will happen.
There’s a school of thought with tons of documentation that these wars — including Southeast Asia (Vietnam & Laos) are about the opium ‘trade’.
Yes, Secretary Clinton continues to fascinate.
Time for me to toddle off. Take care all.
G’nite DrDick.
Wow. What an amazing photo. Obama looks like he’s in over his head. Hillary seems horrified. JSOC dude is in action on his laptop. He’s the only one not watching and looking up. Gates looks angry.
JSOC has planes, whose existence was first noticed here by Rayne that can suck up all electronic communication. Presumably that’s how they knew there were no phones or internet.
While I’m happy with OBLs fate, I would be horrified if the same happened to Cheney.
He is someone that needs to be charged, arrested and put on trial for his crimes. We really need to send a message to our rulers that they are not above the law. This has been one of my largest disappointments with Obama; he let the war crimes stand. (Although not for the first time in U.S. history.)
My guess is that Obama feared getting the Kennedy treatment if he messed with the real bosses.
The writing was on the wall when he reneged on FISA after the primaries.
But I had no idea he’d go this far over to the dark side.
We said Goodbye to another bright young 18 year old man-child in our community last week.
Quit a steady, boring job in production to join The Rangers. I hear he’s angling to be a Sniper, but , the Youngbloods protect me and themselves from the info. It tends to have me on my knees in sorrow. Not in prayer.
And that’s hard to deal with.
Notice that John Brennan is watching the video in the photo, but now his account of what happened is being contradicted by other administration officials. Very weird.
It’s official – Canada is now broken.
What’s Brennan saying that’s different from the others?
(((openhope)))
It sounds like you’re having a very hard time with that.
fuck. As Puget Sounders, we always figured we could just push our Islands into Canadian waters and we’d all be good.
damn
I just went over to Wapo and found out that Glenn Beck’s show was cancelled on Wednesday. What? How can it be that I’m just hearing about it now?
RE: greenwarrior #49
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/02/us-binladen-usa-wife-idUSTRE7416G220110502
I can kind of understand the mix-up as to whether she was his wife, but whether she was killed*, and especially whether she was used as a human shield should be clear to someone like Brennan who watched it all go down.
*EDIT: Pakistani officials says she was not killed and is in custody.
My heart is breaking, but I can’t tell them why. They really have no idea what’s waiting for Joe.
as the Graffiti Art Veteran’s show said, ” I wish I was where I was when I was wishing I was here.”.
His mother says, “We the people are the Military and the Government, through our votes.”.
Okay, baby, what’s left to talk about?
Joe is on his own, as of Saturday.
Hmmm … “CBC appears to break Elections Act, broadcasts results before polls close” (May 2, 2011, updated 11:01PM EDT)
Citizen Greenwarrior:
I have read a lot of ridiculous things on this site and I have responded to many of them but the most absolutely classless and ignorant things have come from the keyboards of trolls and fascist nincompoops…until I read your comment. You look at a picture of people who participated in the most overwhelming decision a public servant can be a part of- sending citizens to kill others – and you disparage their sensitivities and their horror of the absolute power of their actions. None of these folks have ever seen a shot fired in anger before and I dare say that they will never volunteer to make a decision like that again…and you mock their horror and revulsion as “…looks like he’s in over his head…looks horrified.”
This is exactly like I want those who are making decions like this to look like when witnessing the heinous and unredeemable nature of the actions they have set in motion…my God Citizen have you at long last no decency left.
I have a problem with your rant. Please reread.
I, too, have been known to rant.
maybe the woman who was killed was a shield, but that his wife, separately, was injured and that brennan was simply mistaken about who the shield woman was.
i actually take the entire episode with well more than simply one grain of salt. i have no reason to assume that the people running our government are in the business of conveying the truth of the matter, any matter.
I remember that well, was quite outraged, but voted for him anyway.
The other option was too horrible.
But I thought that once he had the job, he’d “do the right (left) thing.”
The disappointments since have been even worse, but what realistic options do we have for next year?
It’s hard to have your eyes open to the consequences for the young and innocent of choosing the military.
~~~ModNote: If you are here to beat on people who don’t share your experiences, just walk away, please.~~~
Hi, Dr Dick. Just flying by on my way to bed, but sleepy as I am, I went over and read the piece and signed the petition.
Sigh.
Baptists running state universities can’t help letting their religious selves run things, I guess.
Or something.
I liked living in Weatherford, home of SWSU, because it was kinda liberal, a college town, comparatively at least. Artsy festivals and people who read books and everything.
Citizen openhope:
If you have a problem with my “rant”, then tell me what it is.
I was watching that. It wasn’t on long enough to have made a difference.
Congratulations, I think the USA is that much closer to adding a dozen states.
And now ALL of North America is headed towards Banana Republic status.
Would the NDP et al immediately go to court over the broken law?
I wasn’t mocking in my observations regardless of how you are reading it. They were simply observations. Where do you read any mocking in the comments I made? The mocking you see is in your own mind and it’s a bit aggravating that you’re attributing it to me and laying into me for something you are completely fabricating as a motive of mine.
Lay the fuck off.
Don’t pull your “Citizen” language on me tonight. I’m not in the fucking mood to pretend we’re all in this together.
With all due respect, and a huge amount of emotions that come with watching a baby you saw breastfed join the fucking Military Empire.
Period.
warning, I’m more hot tempered then I would like to be
gw, I love ya woman, but I disagree that Obama looks “in over his head” in the picture. Somewhere, maybe a Twitter link, I saw a closeup of O – he looks intently focussed, extremely serious, and very conscious of having been the instigator of the dangerous events occurring on the other side of the world. Really.
Other observers seemed to agree. Ah, found the link:
I know you don’t like O, and there are plenty of reasons to be angry with him, but I think you may be letting that interfere in your interpretation here. I kept thinking how blank and dull GWB would look…oh, wait, he never even got close to this moment, having ignored bin Laden before and after 9/11, and having disbanded the bin laden pursuit/capture/whatevere-they-called-it group.
This is gonna be a turning point, hopefully for good, and I think this expression on the prez’s face is what I’d hope to see.
YMMV,of course.
On edit, I wrote this before seeing Norske’s post. Norske, [snip] no, wait, I just wanna stay out of that. My opinions are mine alone.
Am I all alone or does anyone else think there is something kind of vile and vulgar about cheering, chanting USA and dancing in the streets over the killing of this scumbag? I just find it kind of distasteful. Just what have we become?
Baby, join us all. We’re here and we’re appalled.
Citizen openhope:
If you think that the people in the “situation room” should not have been there and should not have particip[ated in the decision to order the killing of bin Lauden, then say so…it is horrible and the cascade of killing unleashed by our corporations and our government in our names over the course of the last 40 years is beyond redemption. So say that… don’t get all holier than thou in an effort to maintain some self-serving sense of innocence and heap it on others who know something about it.
Yeah, I sorta understand it…it’s interesting to me as a sign of how much ordinary folks seem to have still bin Laden as important, despite GWB’s dismissing of him as not really worth even “thinking much” about.
I think it has to do with feeling that, hey this is what we went to war to do, now it’s done, we’ve won, and we can bring everybody home and have peace now.
I doubt that it will work that way, but see DDay’s piece below about unexpected Dem statements pushing for Afghanistan withdrawal. I suspect, and hope, that will become pressure and it will increase. Karzai already said we need to get the heck out now.
I think people rightly see it as a turning point, and are exaggerating that into the catharsis of the end of all these wars.
That’s my positive spin on it, anyway. It’s hard not to at least feel relief.
Norske, this smells of manufactured outrage. In other words, bullshit.
The civilians in that room are probably not accustomed to seeing killing live and in color. That they are horrified or breathless at the sight of it is subject to individual interpretation.
Whether they SHOULD be accustomed to it is another question entirely.
It’s really hard to know why people are acting happy. I had a professor who was being shot at by Charles Whitman from the tower in Austin at U of Texas, he was underneath a car during the attack. Afterwards, after Whitman had been killed, and the survivors on the street and the campus came out from hiding, he said everyone was giddy and laughing. Being a participant in the laughter, and a survivor of the slaughter, he called it “that nervous kind of laughter” when you’ve beaten death alongside others.
without comment:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-10955862
Don’t call me Citizen Openhope, thank you. I find it as offensive as when the Bright Learned Men declared that “Congressperson”, as a word, was just too difficult to incorporate into the common Language.
Color me influenced by overly bright men in a childhood of Bright Men.
Yes its is vulgar, while reason prevails.
But then one thinks back on the someone jumping from the 100th floor of the burning WTC, and realizes that some family member will never, ever escape either in media or their mind’s eye, of the last moment of their loved one’s life.
The blood lust is wrong, and oh so human. If the bloodlust is limited to OBL who set set this all in motion (to large a claim for anyone admittedly) then maybe we can can get back to stomping out the bloodlust for arabs, or muslims and other whole classes of nations or peoples.
Citizen newtonusr:
Unfuckin’ believable…you talk about “manuafactured outrage”??!! You dare to speak about manufactured outrage…no Citizen, my outrage is more than real and I think you know it…the manuafactured outrage comes from those who wrap themselves in self-righteous indignation to maintain some semblence of “manuafatured innocence” to delude themselves into thinkin’ that they are not a part of all of it as citizens of this country. No, Citizen, my outrage is visceral but is not greater than the sadness I feel that so many on this site are so self-deluded.
Mostly it looks like everyone there has just been alerted to something fresh or refreshed on the ‘live’ feed. Biden was facing front until this moment, for instance. Others in the rear seem to have just entered to watch. Everyone looks constrained by necessary silence, no one can say anything. But I wouldn’t attach emotions to people caught in an instant in a photograph.
Can I be cynical now? They were told their picture would be taken for history, posterity, and the archives.
Yeah, I understand, but still I can’t help but think of the vast emptiness of the the soul that is still there after the bloodlust has been quenched.
Betcha Jesse Helms offered an amendment to include ‘Congresspersoness’ in the bill.
It is a sorrow. But, imho, we’ve been lied to for so long and longed for a meaning for so long……
We are the pawns, regardless. We need to rethink Community against the powers of Global Corporate, who design to destroy Community.
I am a Believer in Common Man.
CTuttle is upstairs!
Late, Late Night FDL: Comfortably Numb
Citizen openhope:
You ARE a citizen and you ARE a part of everything that has been done in our names as Americans including this assasination…you can’t escape it by pretending that those who make decisions like this are horrible and aren’t acting in what we in a democracy describe as their understanding of “common good” and “public interest”. You can pretend all you want but that don’t make it so…deal with it.
Be as upset as you like. But attributing motive or weakness to someone who interprets a photograph – THAT is weak. And you know it.
I’m so into the Real Life of Living ..with elderly parents and Dementia. Jesse Helms has no blip on my radar.
I’z lucky that way.
No woman was killed, according to the Pakistanis who picked up the bodies after the Americans left.
What if … what if …
What if Gore had wanted to win more than he wanted to suck up to the Right and put Nader on the ticket instead of Lieberman? Would the whole Bush nightmare have been avoided?
For that matter, what if the Senate Democrats had cooperated with Clinton’s impeachment and we got to test-drive Prez Gore for 18 months, and have him go into the election as the sitting Prez?
Would Prez Gore have stopped 9/11? Maybe, maybe not. Would he have gone to war to resolve it? I’m going to guess “no”, and he certainly wouldn’t have gone into Iraq. IIRC either he or Kerry was talking about how this needed to be a police action instead of a military action, relying on human intelligence assets and special forces as the SWAT teams.
In the end, that is what worked. 9/11 was a crime, not an act of war. You go to war with nation states, not criminal networks. But nobody gets to ride a white horse and wave a sword, or land a fighter plane on a carrier. And there aren’t as many profit opportunities.
So here we are, 10 years closer to human extinction. We have a police state and a bloated military and a huge pile of debt. But we finally killed one particular guy out of seven billion. Uh … hooray?
Norske,
You have taught me many things in the long course of our years at FDL.
I beg you, please. In my only theory of Life As I Know It; Do No Harm. We’re All In This Together.
Lately, I’m trying not to add Decimate Trolls. But, Life is a work in progress and we can’t all be good, all the time.
I admire your intellect and have learned, actually, moderation from your cue.
Just not tonight.
peace, laughter, strength
Another reliable source in the reporting of events…………………/s
My father in law (now passed away) was one of the most reasonable and gentlest man I’ve met. He also was on an aircraft carrier and survived the Kamikaze waves at Okinawa. One time I said something complementary about the Japanese, and I nearly was banished from his household. Perfectly understandable for a survivor, though I was shocked by it.
The vulgarity is when we cheer for death like its a sports competition. But again, how is that new? From the Romans Colosseum to the ladies who attended the daily guillotine sessions in Paris during the French revolution, the instinct is not peculiar to us.
We are addicted to Hate. It pays the bills of Empire.
Dear Allison,
I’ve gotten lost in the weeds.
Thank you so much for your post. I admire your writing skills and posts.
peace, laughter, strength
and great sex
is that okay to wish for?
I know people are comparing this to V-J Day but come on…
Over 170,000 U.S. soldiers died in the pacific theater, and millions of people overall.
When you subtract out the symbolism, killing bin Laden wasn’t even in the top 50 problems we have to deal with.
What, Iraqi dead don’t count?
I like this version better.
No doubt. I suspect Madame Secretary must be thrilled at her expression, this one being for the books and all.
“so many don’t even seem to comprehend the magnitude of what has been lost along the way?” (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kristen-breitweiser/today-is-not-a-day-of-cel_b_856535.html)
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
3000+ brutally and coldly MURDERED! will we ever forgive or forget?
1.5 million Iraqis. x3 wounded. 4 million displaced (of which 2 million had to leave the country, WHILE US forces were there). will they ever forgive or forget?
afghanistan?
torture? rendition? suspension of habeas corpus at will?
attacked by a monster. and yet the irrational response of Iraq and Afghanistan has destroyed us. we have become the very monster we fought.
3000+ … will their families EVER forget or forgive?
will the Iraqis and Afghanis EVER forgive or forget?
would you?
Just like when she dodged bullets on the tarmac. Yes, there are second acts in life.
Yeah. There’s busted, and then there’s scalded.
This is a lie.
I agree about the trial… but, clearly, they were not going to put any of the Seals in danger. That may have been the right decision.
It’s a HUGE hurdle… to get our constitutional rights back.
There’s a lot of revulsion at the horror on many of those faces, especially on Clinton’s.
I wondered whether Obama had thought about the Kennedy treatment, too.