[As a courtesy to our guests, please keep comments to the film and topic. Please take other conversations to a previous thread.]
“for my wife…” The Making Of An Activist For Marriage Equality
Teddy Partridge, Host:
This documentary film is about tragedy, insult, and empowerment. The tragedy comes at the beginning — the horrific drowning of Kate Fleming, witnessed by her wife Charlene Strong, in a flash flood in their home. The insult comes right on tragedy’s heels as Charlene is kept from her wife’s last moments in the hospital and is ignored by the funeral planner. Charlene’s relationship with Kate is denied over and over– first by her exclusion from the ambulance rushing Kate to the ER, then by a hospital’s cold and impersonal bureaucratic process, and a finally during a funeral director’s bigotry-based ignorance of the family bond between this woman and her dead wife.
Many of us might step away from these events shattered and grieving, unable to engage. Not Charlene Strong, who — within six weeks — testified before the Washington Legislature about how same-sex partners’ treatment is different, especially in extremis. And exactly how many actors in the drama of Kate’s last moments alive put their bigoted or ignorant imprint on Charlene’s experience.
Watching her testify in the film was amazing; I cannot imagine suffering her loss and maintaining my composure the way she did while speaking publicly about it, especially so soon afterwards. We literally watch Activist Charlene born from the ashes of her sorrow and loss.
This movie is a wake-up call in the face of all the middle-ground arguments that civil unions or domestic partnerships are enough for anyone. Charlene talks about how the word “marriage” — saying “she’s my wife” — is something universally understood in our culture, and has been for centuries. No new phraseology or legal protections that are ‘all but marriage in name’ come close. While her fight in Washington achieved domestic partnership, Charlene and her allies are clear: nothing will suffice, finally, but full equality.
Charlene journeys to become an engaged and successful activist: she shares her story with audiences across the country, showing Americans why marriage matters, testifying about her tragic loss and her insult. She tells her story to President Obama, as it becomes the basis for his new regulations over hospital visitation by same-sex partners. This documentary detailing Charlene’s path is an important part of the marriage equality conversation in America. But it shows us how activism is born in the human soul, and shows us the results of that activism: often elusive, but plainly laid out here.
It’s important, inspiring, and worthwhile. It advances the marriage equality debate, and it illustrates why and how activism develops and matters.
I’m excited that not only will the movie’s director, David Rothmiller, join us to discuss his powerful work, but we will also be joined by the subject of the documentary: Kate Fleming’s widow, Charlene Strong. Please join me in welcoming them both to FDL Movie Night.




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Good evening, everyone. Thanks for joining us this evening to chat about this remarkable film.
Charlene, David, Welcome to the Lake.
Greetings and thank you, Teddy, for hosting this Movie Night.
David
Hi all, we are waiting to hear from you and share a night of chatting and learning
Hello, David, thanks for chatting with FDL readers tonight.
Tell me, please, what drew you to this story? How did you first hear of Charlene and Kate, and how did you decide to tell their story?
I saw this promoted on Facebook and thought I’d join in!
Hello Charlene!
Thanks for spending some time with us to talk about your amazing journey. Were you and Kate activists in your community before your tragedy? One thing I didn’t understand until the very end of the film was how quickly after Kate’s passing you testified before the legislature. How did you keep your demeanor so calm?
Welcome, Beth P.
Hey, Thanks for joining,
LD Thompson, my partner, and I were filming a video for Equal Rights Washington. We met Charlene in preparation for their dinner.
We then filmed Gov. Gregoire’s signing ceremony and interviewed Charlene that day.
In our talks, it became clear that her story had an impact beyond our state.
As a technical note, there is a “Reply” button in the lower right hand of each comment. Clicking the “Reply” will pre-fill the commenter name and comment number being replied to. (It makes it easier to follow the conversation for everyone)
If you were going to do a new documentary, today, what would you focus on?
Got it, I was just saying hello to Beth P for joining. Thanks, Charlene
About Charlene and Kate, everyone in Seattle was aware of what happened during the Dec 2008 storm. Kate was a well known actress and voice-over talent. The circumstances of her drowning in her own home horrified us all. The situation that followed at the hospital with Charlene being turned away -these details did not become known until later. Our film followed that story.
David, one aspect I found fascinating was how the Washington legislators talked openly about how the domestic partnership bill was a step towards marriage equality: the first step on a road that would get us our full marriage rights. That stood the old argument of the bigots on its head: “If we give these homosexuals partial marriage rights, they’ll want everything eventually!”
Don’t you see an irony here, that the argument about the camel’s nose in the tent, so to speak, is now used by proponents when it used to be an anti-gay argument?
Hi Teddy. Thanks so much for talking about this film tonight–it’s so important. And thanks to the director for making it.
First you should start with your passion in life. For me it could range from youth to marriage to dignity and love
It seemed like one connected insult after another — ambulance, hospital, funeral parlor. Did you experience it that way, Charlene (if this isn’t too painful, please say so if so!) or did each successive barrier seem like a new, discrete obstacle?
Looks like a good film. Thanks for the heads up on this one, TP.
In a society that pretends to be the freest on earth, I am always struck that so many in that same society thoughtlessly assume that it is the business of the state to decide with whom any of us can spend our lives. Control backed by punishment for noncompliance over the intimate lives of citizens is the most intrusive and heinous oppression.
Thank you for stopping by today!
First I never dreamed that I would face what Kate and I went through, living in a city with a large LGBT community it seemed for me impossible that we would face such barriers. My life felt as if it was left to the gate keepers feelings versus any form of rights.
My question is more pointedly, where is the leverage point now in the marriage equality issue?
Thanks for your efforts and time here, Charlene!
DOMA is an obstacle in full equality in this country, as long as it remains a law, we are faced with little or no ability to speak of the injustice we face as LGBT couples in our country.
These insults come at us very unexpectedly, too. They come as part of losses like Charlene’s, and they come as part of the civic sphere too. I won’t compare the two, but the morning after Election Day 2008 was very hollow for me as a then-Californian, knowing that at least some of the people around me had voted for me and my fiance’ to become second-class citizens again.
I was reminded of that morning just recently, when the federal judge agreed to hear the motion of the Prop 8 folks about Judge Walker being biased because he’s in a long-term, committed same-sex relationship. It seems like no matter how privileged we are by any social measurement (a respected, retired federal Chief Judge, in Walker’s case) our relationships are still subject to special scrutiny and ridicule.
That’s wrong.
Thank you Ottogrendel, it is from passion only
By the way, I put ‘for my wife’ in my Netflix queue and I have urged others to do the same. Any idea when Netflix will have the film?
How can we vote this law down, though?
To clarify, had you and Kate availed yourselves of the possible legal protections already possible for two same-sex people in a relationship in your state? Were you already cross-contracted and everything? And did the hospital and funeral director simply ignore all that?
So here is a question to all of you, how do you see the scrutiny we are forced to live with changing, with this issue in CA?
Charlene and David,
What does the LGBT community need to do at this critical juncture to mobilize a national marriage equality effort? It seems very fragmented and the wind left the sails after last election cycle…
Voting is the first step in changing rights and correcting the wrong headed laws in our country. I need support pure and simple, it’s not just writing a check it is becoming proactive in your community.
Even with Obama’s Directive instructing medical staff to incorporate LGBT families in the care of patients, states without clear legal parameters of what is required can lapse into personal decisions, revealing bias and discrimination.
Beth, we are fragmented, not everyone in the LGBT community feels marriage matters, it is not my desire it should be looked as an equality issue
Moving LGBT issues forward requires daily shots over the bow…
I only wish that FDL had found a Lesbian to host this salon.
They are around, you know.
Until emergency strikes, many of us who live in blue-state, accepting areas of the country hope for the best from strangers who suddenly can have life-or-death control over our lives. What I learned in California — and see again now in Oregon — is that bigotry is everywhere, and sometimes people squirrel themselves away into particular niches to exercise their power over others.
It’s like the pharmacists to go into their line of work, seemingly expressly for the purpose of challenging women’s right to legal medical care. I don’t understand why they’d be drawn to that area, except to wield power over others. But people are sometimes motivated that way, and we can encounter them in the strangest places, at the most critical times, when we least expect it. I mean, who carries all their legally required paperwork with them all the time just in case an accident or injury occurs?
Legal documents are one safety net with a limited and often over looked value. I ask you, in all honesty, how many committed gay couples have the legal documents ready for the asking and second why should LGBT folks be required to jump through hops we do not ask of Heterosexual couples.
It does not take an exclusive lesbian voice to work on our rights, it takes our communities voice.
…and Teddy looks great in Bunny Ears.
Agree. But, there are folks here who want only to hear a voice like their own. Repeatedly. Thank you for the movie.
I second the bunny ears. It is a community wide effort without any sexual orientation.
Some of the work the Courage Campaign is doing in California, going into “red” areas and doing door-to-door outreach, has been very successful in changing minds, or at least opening hearts. An equality group here in Oregon ran a lot of television ads the past two-three weeks, not related to a specific initiative, but simply to get people talking and thinking about fairness to the people they know in their lives.
Their thought was that the heat of a campaign, with actual language on the ballot, is not the time to have a reasonable conversation about equality — that folks line up on their sides and square off. It’s too late then to change minds, or hearts.
I’ve not seen that done before, and I’ll be interested to see how it works. I’m no fan of having civil rights on the ballot, but Americans seem to have decided that ours are up for a vote.
so how many states actually do recognize gay marriage?
I hope you get a chance to see it and share the film with family members who do not understand the importance of marriage equality – even within the LGBT community.
Demi, I do hear you and please pardon my light hearted response. Equality is not pretty or easy. I value all voices to see change… and for me personally it has no orientation, just discrimination
Hospitals in the clutches of churches still obey the Bishop, not the President.
six states offer any form of rights, keep in mind those rights mean little once a couple leaves that state. What also is lacking is the 600 plus federal rights non of us are afforded.
In the lead up to the Prop 8 vote – we had finished the first version of the film and offered it directly to the three orgs heading the fight. In each case, we were told that they could not focus on small events like screenings, but had set their sights on “big donors” to make the most hay.
In hindsight, this strategy failed.
In the midst of a medical emergency, opposite-sex partners who say, “He’s my husband” or “She’s my wife” are never told, “Oh, yeah? Prove it.” It simply doesn’t happen unless the gender of the patient and the partner are the same.
{ Charlene, David, Teddy, guest of the Lake, welcome. }
I agree with the assessment that we’d be half way there by finally severing state from church in every dimension.
I understand from the movie that Charlene and Kate didn’t have any paperwork in place. But I also understand that even if they had Charlene couldn’t have had any docs with her due to the situation. Further, even now in WA domestic partners have cards that they have to carry. Is the same asked of hetero couples. Is that fair/ equal?
Charlene, thanks so much for being here and for this film. It was incredibly moving and powerful as a personal statement. And David, bravo for your part in making this as well. Teddy, as always, thanks for sharing your compassionate light on this subject.
Just wanted to add my voice to Teddy’s on this film: it is powerful, moving and well worth your time.
Teddy, No longer true, President Obama on April 15th last year said that if anyone presents with “Legal Doucmentation” they could not be denied access to whomever is in a hospital.
I will share it with my child that it affects. I no longer try to encourage my other family members to be more compassionate.
Yes, I am a profoundly un-Serious person in the Springtime, I am afraid.
Hi Charlene and David, thnaks for being here and for making this film. And Teddy, thank you for hosting while ‘m away. Your insight and your work on Prop 8 and liveblogging the trial–it’s an honor to have you host.
I think we build our community, and respect therefore from others, by setting ourselves next to one another, not apart from each other.
I apologize if this is tacky, but I’m going to plug the website for the film.
In re proactivity in your community: I am going to see about buying the rights to the film to show it at the university where I work. I have some leftover funds from an old project that I can use, the brand new campus LGBT Resource Center opened shop upstairs from my office, and I just met the perfect undergrad fighter who should be willing to help with the leg work.
Secondclass (@27) and others may be interested in doing this as well. Rights for non-profit use are only $100.
Legal documentation is at issue here, Tell me how many have the thought to put that paper work together and second why are we left to prove when so many are not asked for the same burden of proof?
New Hampshire becme the 6th state to sanction gay marriage, and the third to do so legislatively, after Vermont and Maine. Rhode Island is the only New England state without marriage equality.
For My Wife Website – http://www.formywife.info/
Hey Ottgrendel, contact cinema librea or formywife.info to schedule that if you like, also I work with folks that can help get me to your university as well.
Great! It is a valuable tool for education. One can book a screening through: http://www.formywife.info
Nothing about their strategy succeeded: they turned a 16-point advantage in a four-point loss in three months. One thing they refused to do was show actual, true-to-life same-sex loving committed couples in their ads. Once the other side engaged the usual save-the-children howitzers, making the argument primal as they have since Anita Bryant, their was no human equation on our side, only abstract notions.
Abstract notions don’t win gut elections.
Your film humanizes the fight. That’s why it is so important: this happened to this person. Look at her! Feel her pain!
for my wife… is available through Ironweed Films, Netflix or on Amazon.
Charlene – I am so sorry for your loss.
no, you’re right, most people probably don’t have to show proof. But you mentioned other 600 federal rights that heterosexual couples have–I suspect that even those couples don’t know what those 600 rights are. How do we make sure that all of them are included as part of a measure to be voted on for gay marriage rights? where do you even start with that?
Charlene what you say about documentation is absolutely right on. I tell my friends to put their last wishes etc in writing. In CA holographic (handwritten wills) are legal, and thus of course any other wishes in terms of helath care, etc. They must however be HANDWRITTEN, not typed. And dated. Or you can go through an attorney or legal service. But please always make your wishes known
The films’s distributor is Cinema Libre.
Netflix has NOT made a purchase yet – so PLEASE, add it to your Netflix Queue. They are waiting for the “magic number” of requests. We don’t know what that is.
But, yes – amazon.com
And now iTunes!
I hope Obama’s word counts in parts of the country where his presidency is considered illegimate in and of itself. I hope all hospital administrators get the word out. I hope these regulations are enough. But I do worry that sometime, sooner rather than later, we’ll hear about someone kept apart from a spouse because local officials — under the thumb of a Bishop or a bigot — decided to disobey our President.
Hi Lisa!
I hate to sound negative, but a dear friend of mine just died and when it came to the disposition of her body her mother was called not her same sex spouse. Can anyone tell me what is wrong with this picture? I can… without marriage we lack the vital language of equality
And New York State, I believe, has the unique distinction of recognizing others states’ same-sex unions without sanctioning their own.
Also permitting same-sex unions and acknowledging others’ is DC.
David — done. And for those looking for the film, you can find it at this direct link to it’s page on Netflix.
Teddy, Federal employees who are married or domestic partners in “other states” can then participate in rights affored to married couples. It is not marriage, but an acknowledgment of unions. NO marriage in that state however.
We went through this time after time during the eighties and nineties, when out-of-town estranged families would swoop into DC or SF, sometime while the rest of us were actually at the memorial service, and strip the deceased’s house bare. We’d come back for the ‘visiting’ to find the locks changed on an empty house with a For Sale sign on it.
But you are right, Charlene, this is not only in our past. People who are legally required to do one thing will do another at the drop of the hat, if their ‘faith’ requires them to.
Full gay and lesbian marriage will not happen on a federal level without a push from our political organizations and our elected officals. Personally, I think we have it all wrong. If the federal Government took the explicit step to put DOMA in place, then there will be no federal movement on federal rights. I think it is a shell game at best. Go after your stat rights, but don’t look at what you are being denied federally.
Well, I think you needn’t do everything piecemeal, civil right by civil right, if you simply say that any two non-sibling adults can marry, regardless of gender. This attempt to construct a parallel system — domestic partnerships, civil unions, civil marriage — invariably leaves something out. Simply saying that people can marry whom they please with the definition of marriage extended to all couples makes the fine print unnecessary.
Repeal DOMA; let states operate independently and, then, like Loving v Virginia, there will eventually be a marriage case to reach the Supreme Court and give them the chance to invalidate all those 2004 state DOMAs.
I think the Bishop or bigot would think twice about trying that in Judge Aiken’s jurisdiction but woe unto you in other jurisdictions not so well served.
This is not a faith issue only Teddy, it is our issue as well. How many in our community know just how limiting the rights we are gaining are?
Three screenings of
award-winning 60-minute documentary for my wife… are set for the next 2 weeks, with
appearances by Charlene.
a) Fri., May 6, Washington, D.C.
b) Tues., May 10, Keene, N.H.
c) Mon., May 16, Cincinnati, Ohio
More info and tickets here: http://www.thetaskforce.org/formywife
Perhaps organizing a nationwide tour consisting of LGBT individuals and allies to meet with hospital admin and funeral directors to expose them to real live gays and their conditions might bring about some changes.
Demi and TP @ 37,
Bob Altemeyer’s work on authoritarian followers provides some great insights on how to break through bigotry, insularity and general deference to authority (whether that authority is an individual or a custom). Part of the solution involves presenting positive challenges to authority in environments where authoritarian followers would not feel threatened. As long as folks feel scared or threatened, they will not be open to new ideas, people or teachable moments. Also, being able to identify with other people over a common experience, as it appears this film provides, helps a great deal. It is easy to vilify an two-dimensional abstraction. It is much harder to do the same with a real person in an intimate and non-threatening encounter.
If one is not familiar, here is a start: http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/
I think first-person engagement is the only way we’ll win this.
But, then, I think about all the gay men I knew through the years who worked in Jesse Helms’ Senate office, and I wonder if proximity = truth.
So, David, what’s next for you and your film-making team?
David–is there a particular group (religious, political, etc) that you would love to show this film to? It seems like a great film to open people’s minds.
We have many hours of film shot in Afghanistan, Syria and Jordan… a look at the lives of Muslim women around the globe.
Funding is scarce for a project like this – but we hope to complete it.
PFLAG is a good model for sharing stories of LGBT struggles.
Maybe consultation on lessons learned and assistance from Canada’s top activists on how they dealt with bringing this enfranchisement to their country?
Yes, you are correct.
I worry that there’s so much else that needs doing — employment and housing protections, youth protections, transgender civil rights — that so much of our funding and energy needs to be engaged fighting this marriage battle. But it isn’t one we sought: the other side is determined to keep us less than, second-class, not full Americans.
And no one can stand still for that.
You are right, I would love an invitation, if you know of anyone.
We had hoped the film would be embraced more fully by LGBT media orgs – but that has been limited. We still believe it can reach a “tipping point” and be broadcast on television, thus reaching a much wider audience.
Seems to me this film should be on television – HBO or Showtime on IFC or Sundance etc
Will do. This semester is about over except for hitting “submit” on the gradebook, so I’ll aim for Fall.
Yes, TV is the perfect approach to folks who would not otherwise, buy or rent a doc on Marriage Equality.
Please, help us spread the word…
Charlene is also available as a speaker. Erica Langston at: http://www.theagencygroup.com
Charlene I read that you were appointed to the Human Rights Commission in WA State. What is your job like?
It seems perfect for a Pride month broadcast, perhaps locally if anyone has contacts with their city’s public broadcaster. Any LOGO interest?
It’s so sad to see BRAVO go all-Housewives-all-the-time. They used to be a wonderful LGBT resource, but no more.
To be a Human Rights Commissioner is amazing and a nice nod from our amazing Governor to continue to work with a passion for the citizens of Washington State and the vital need for equality for ALL citizens of our state. I feel very blessed and humbled.
What are the steps to full marriage equality in Washington State now, Charlene? Can you get there from here? Is there a timeline?
Hell, yes.
Charlene: Thank you for coming!
What’s really fascinating to me is that a key, albeit generally unspoken (aside from oblique or coded references) assumption that marriage is at heart a religious rite with some civil-law implications — hence the religious-based justification for denying it to same-sex couples — when in fact marriage in our society is a civil act that may or may not have religious trappings (my marriage certainly didn’t — it was held in a private residence and a judge officiated) which should not be allowed to have any legal influence on the civil act of marriage itself.
In other words, the anti-marriage-equality people are pushing the old “they want to force the Pope to marry Siegfried and Roy in the Vatican!!!” scare crapola, when in fact you and your wife couldn’t have cared less about who did what in the Vatican — you just wanted to be able to visit your loved one in the hospital, and have the same civil rights any straight couple would have.
Thanks, Charlene and David for being here. And thanks for hosting, Teddy.
(Great to see ReddHedd briefly, too!)
Thanks.
As with many states, our state is strapped and to introduce marriage for some may seem frivolous and not on the forefront of voters minds. Really, it is a name at this point. Marriage vs Domestic partnership. it really is the name we are working for right now.
Exactly! All this ‘pushing it down our throats’ from the right is just so much projection, since that is exactly what they are doing to us by making our civil law adhere to their religion’s code. In the same way they now talk about being excluded from the public square. You know, because of all those non-Xtian officeholders throughout America.
Thanks, Teddy… and all who participated in this “chat”.
Thank you all, if you want to follow me, please check in at http://www.charlenestrong.com and also I am co-editior @ The Seattle Lesbian. com Peace, Charlene
Why reinvent the wheel? Pick their brains and enlist their help on operations.
Also, didn’t Michael Moore get past the US monopolies that would have blocked his break-out works such as Bowling For Columbine by doing independent distribution/home party viewing?
Thanks everybody!
David and Charlene, thanks very much to both of you for your time tonight. I learned a lot and I hope others did too. It was an honor to host this FDL Movie Night in Lisa’s absence; I’m very happy she chose me to introduce your film. Watching this film was very moving, and being part of helping it reach a greater audience meant a great deal to me.
I hope folks will make an effort to get and see this documentary, host a screening for groups they belong to, ask Charlene to come speak to them — whatever each of you can do to be a part of the civil rights struggle of our own time.
Thanks!
Charlene, David, Thank you for being here tonight. Please let us know when the film will be shown at festivals and on tv.
The film activities are updated on Facebook: formywife
Cheers!
Bill Maher made a comment awhile back that went something like, “If those who are opposed to gay marriage are really so worried about preserving the sanctity of the institution, why aren’t they trying to outlaw divorce?”