The Donald is so fullashit his irises are brown.

It’s because that animal on his head has to defecate somewhere.

The poll, however well intentioned, did not ask what planets the respondents themselves were from.

“I only know what my sister tells me and she lives in Arkansas.” ~ female Tea Partier at rally in DeeCee in 2010.

How many Democrats are still ignorant about Obama’s positions and corporatist agenda?

If we’re going to have either/or politics, then there has to be a real difference between the two parties. Instead, Obama and Democrats pretend to be less shitty than the Republicans, though they are not, and pretend to care about average Americans, though they do not.

If you thought the GOP primary in 2008 was a carnival freak show….

I did! I did think it was a carnival freak show!

Thanks for the post BT.

Naaahhh. We can pretty much make fun of willfully ignorant people anytime.

Hey Donnie: Show us some current, consolidated, fully-audited financial statements (including the notes, of course), and then maybe we won’t have to ridicule you quite so much. Oh…we’d also like tax returns, as well. (Don’t tell me, let me guess: You’re on extension for tax year 2010, right?)

And can you please do something about that shit on top of your head, already? It’s just fucking embarrassing.

Republican voters are a bunch of wackadoos – This argument will probably not be that persuasive to those that believe Obama was not born in the US. Why not treat them with respect and argue the facts which might well persuade them that Obama was born in the US

You Never Know Who Your Friends Are: Back in 2008, On Bill Maher’s Real Time, his guests were former POTUS contender General Wesley Clark (Ret.), tennis great Martina Navratilova, and columnist Andrew Sullivan. Their brief topic was the possibility of Governor Swarzenegger running for POTUS. The issue of birth and national origin came up, and the US Constitutional POTUS requirement of being born in the US. Maher sneered, “It’s an amendment”, with that dismissive take he’s known for. General Clark said, “Amendments are part of the Constitution”. Maher persisted: (paraphrasing) “Still, it’s an amendment, it can be repealed”.

No one knew it’s not an amendment, it’s part of Article 2.

People like Maher and Clark are praised and prized for their intelligence. *gag*

Possibly-serious Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump

This is my favorite part. Someone at CNN realizes he can’t be fugging serious about all of this.

We can pretty much make fun of willfully ignorant people anytime.

Are you talking about the willfully ignorant people who will vote for Obama and sellout Democrats in 2012 because they think that they’re voting for leaders who care about the American people?

You’re talking about people who hate first, and invent “reasons” to hate later.

Why should we try to persuade them about anything?

Why not treat them with respect and argue the facts which might well persuade them that Obama was born in the US

What you’re suggesting is like asking the KKK to do some community building in Detroit. It’s not possible.

Impeach Obama. He’s not a US citizen.

Or, impeach him because he’s backstabbing sellout son of a bitch.

Or, impeach him for his absurd speeches.

Fine by me.

Only thing missin’ is the bearded lady.

On Amazon the #1 best selling book is Where’s the Birth Certificate?: The Case that Barak Obama is not Eligible to be President by Jerome Corsi.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/books/ref=sv_b_3

It is very sad, but not surprising.

A lot of people will vote for Obama because they don’t want to vote for whomever the Regressives put on the ballot, just like in 08. That doesn’t make them ignorant, only that they think differently than you do.

Bachmann shaves.

I was gonna say sumpthin’ but thought better of it.

You’re older and wiser. I’m just a young punk.

Nah, I just don’t wanna get hammered by the women here and the mods.

Same tangent as yesterday? (yeah, I lurk. A lot.)

Look, Knox, not all voters will base their vote on the same criteria that you use. Not all voters pay attention to the same things. Hate President Obama all you want but don’t expect the entire electorate to feel and think the same as you.

Well if any of the ladies or the mods here are offended by my Bachmann crack I will certainly apologize. It wasn’t meant to be offensive to anybody but Bat-shit Shelly.

The Congress needs to investigate why much of the citizenry is not only ignorant, but holds inaccurate views. An investigation would show that concentrated media ownership is a big reason for this. It would also conclude that breaking up the media oligopoly is the first step to restoring America’s democratic republic.

Heard you say that, SD.

Stop being so logical. It’s giving me flashbacks to my teenage years.

Speaking of, some are taking this as evidence she’s renounced birtherism. More like the GOP PTB told her to STFU.

I won’t argue that some T-GOPers are either intellectually very very lazy and/or they are stupid and/or they are authoritarians who enjoy being told what to do, how to think & how to vote.

The corp-owned facist media has spun & spun & spun the Birfer story since Day 1, so if some citizens, for whom the Southern Strategy was specifically created & continues to be utilized to this day (i.e., racists), enjoy buying into the fictional fantasy that O is not US born… well, I dunno. In reality, why should they “believe” otherwise.

It started out with just the fracking nutbar fringe like that demented Orly Taitz & Philip Berg, but it’s now moved somewhat more “mainstream” by the likes of The Donald – an often bankrupt entertainer – now cashing in on the braindead ignorance of citizens, something at which The Donald is very *adept* at doing bc he *makes money* from it.

Sad, bloody effen sad, but just more of the same old Kabuki show. The PTB are giving us serfs lots of circuses to distract us; too bad there’s no bread to go along with viewing these the sideshow freaks (with all due respect – seriously – to sideshow freaks).

Nearly 70% Of Republicans Still Ignorant About Obama’s Citizenship

fixed

Is that anything like Burma Shave?

Unfortunately not nearly as cool as Burma Shave.

BTW, I long ago ceased believing nearly any poll “data” that’s quoted. I think most/all poll “findings” are just hype spun out to say whatever it is that the PTB want the serfs to believe. I’m not sure if this many GOP actually believe this. Just more spin, imo.

Fair enough. But why bother discussing these issues at all if so many Americans – including people at FDL – are not going to get angry about the fact that the choices are going to be between shitty and shittier?

For that matter, why mock the Republicans for supporting Trump and the assclowns when the Democratic Party keeps finding bullshit excuses to put Blue Dog a$$holes and the likes of Obama the sellout on the ballot?

More like this.

This is not primarily about the news media or ignorance. It is about racism. [I realize racism is a cousin of ignorance.]

The birth certificate controversy is euphemistic code for their visceral dislike of the color of Obama’s skin.

Hate President Obama all you want but don’t expect the entire electorate to feel and think the same as you.

I’m sure there are millions of voters who have bad reasons to hate Obama (ignorance) and millions more who have bad reasons to love him (ignorance).

Maybe we should be talking about the ignorance of voters in comments to this post, rather than about the ignorance of voters. Sorry for the tangent.

I’m still trying to figure out that the “real” birth certificate is. What is it that they want to see that they haven’t already?

I think the difference lies between the birth certificate issued by the hospital and the official birth certificate that would be issued by the state. The hospital certificate is the one that’s been circulated. For some folks that’s not good enough, apparently.

Agree.

http://www.latimes.com/news/la-chimp-email19-m,0,5321979.story

An Orange County Republican Party official who sent an email that portrays President Obama’s face superimposed on a chimpanzee with the words: “Now you know why — No birth certificate!” apologized for her action but insisted she’s not a racist.

Unfortunately, Scott Adams – the creator of the Dilbert cartoons – defends racist mornonic Davenport & states that she is not a racist:

http://www.mediaite.com/online/dilbert-creator-scott-adams-defends-republican-officials-obama-chimp-email/

The rightwing does continue to contort itself into “explaining” why such incidents, as well as the birf sirtifikat, are not “racist,” but they are. It’s just more of the Southern Strategy at work.

I think they want to see the American people do to Obama what was done to Mussolini in April 1945. Till they see that happen, they’re not going to be happy. Yes, they’re insane.

Nothing. Stop wondering. You’re wasting your time, frankly. such people don’t really want to “see” anything. It’s a wholly manufactured “controversy” spun out of thin air, mostly used as part of the Southern Strategy.

The only “jollies” I get out this whole stupidity is that the ginned up fake birf sirtefikat “controversy” has put-paid to any efforts to amend the Constitution so that Ahhhnold can run for POTUS. No way, no how, thank gawd (plus, these days Ahhhhnold would be waaaaay to liberal for the T-GOP).

If the official birth certificate were handed to them right now, all they’d do is hate him more than they hate him now.

IGNORANT Republicans ?!? Who’d a thunk it…

aaaand they would claim it’s “fake.” There is no “there” there, and there will never be an “end” to this fake “controversy.”

NYT/CBS Poll: Nearly 70% of Republicans Still Ignorant about Obama’s Citizenship

Fixed up your title for ya, BT.

Blogwhoring.

there will never be an “end” to this fake “controversy.”

Or an end to the hate that fuels it, apparently. Still, I care far more about what voters who wanted what Obama promised think about him now. Far more relevant to FDL readers, imo.

Citizen SouthernDragon:

“All that’s missin’ is the bearded lady.”

Ain’t that what Rudy Giuliani is for?

Citizen Knox:

There ya go again…shootin’ off your mouth at folks in the same foxhole as you are…JEEzus Citizen, don’t handle anything sharp!!

Suppose we learn (and to Obama’s great and genuine surprise) that he wasn’t born in the US and therefore was not eligible to be POTUS. It’s too late for that technicality to be enforced. It’s not an impeachable offense if he didn’t know. The SCOTUS will give a summary ruling, it won’t be adjudicated b/c there would be suits to nullify all EO’s. It will be 5-4 with Kennedy joining the other four to make the birth issue moot in this single Oopsie instance.

It’s a Bee story… Nice eCHAN!

Yeppers. Finally got it done. Took more time than I thought.

Issue the right form and be done with it.
Who cares!
He is a repub by policy and governance.

“We’re looking into it very, very strongly. At a certain point in time I’ll be revealing some interesting things,” Trump said on CNN’s American Morning.

Like, for example, did you know that Obama really is a dedicated progressive after all?

Wait until you see him in a stiff wind. That thing on his head is actually his own hair. When he gets caught in the wind, it becomes 2 feet long. I think it is the longest combover in history.

Nah, when I was a GI in Hawaii, there was a civilian I’d see in the Accounting offices (where I worked – he was a resource manager who would walk things through sometimes). I never thought anything of it at first until the first time I saw him out doors and his wrap-around/comb over was about three and half feet.

Yes, Jerome Corsi of the Swiftboaters. Another truth teller-not.

Perhaps we could get some DNA from Obama – Match it to his mother Ann or her relatives – and be done with this.

Finding the Hospital birth document would not solve much as some folks would claim “forged”. The State’s live birth doc is the ONLY birth doc that is official in Hawaii, but that can be given to those born outside the state, and indeed folks know that the CIA “makes past history” all the time. Plus the fact Ann was in Africa in her 9th month allows folks to say she lost her kid and came back with a kid that was a relative of her husband.

It comes down to “reasonable” – and the live birth doc ends the discussion for most folks since he needs only that Ann to be his mother for him to be a “natural born citizen eligible for the Presidency” – birth in Hawaii is not required.

There are those that still believe the GOP crap against Bill Clinton that is now known to be a bunch of proven lies – indeed some of those lies are posted on progressive sites now and then. You can not change those folks minds and should not waste energy trying. Indeed this nonsense takes the GOP away from any real message and therefor may be what in the end re-elects Obama.

I always thought these (birthers) were merely geographically-challenged: you know, they missed geography class when Hawaii (and Alaska?) joined the union . . . and have never considered why we now have 50 stars on the flag instead of 48.

It ALWAYS seems to be that way doesn’t it?

There are many forms that ask for place of birth – city and country. Any birth certificate should list this. If it doesn’t it means nothing, as that is its purpose and it in fact is misleading and the abuse potential is enormous, like terrorists.

Indeed this nonsense takes the GOP away from any real message and therefor may be what in the end re-elects Obama.

I think that’s exactly it, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s deliberate kabuki to move independents towards BHO.

Trump is right about Libya. Why are we there ?
Is there any progressive cause that Obama has supported since he got elected by promising to be progressive or are the empty promises all that can point to.

Once again, nothing ever gets repeated but the same crap. Here’s something you will never ever here discussed. The idea that Obama isn’t born here is besides the point. He is the president. Back when I was dying that Kerry didn’t get elected I found out that WHOEVER is certified by congress on January 6th IS the president. And then WHOEVER takes the oath of office IS president. What is this damn fantasy of Americans that they have more power (or ANY) than the powers that be. If the powers that be didn’t want him to be president he wouldn’t be. They didn’t want Gore and they didn’t want Kerry. They wanted Obama.

And the idiots-Stanley Ann Dunham wasn’t in Africa. That is the point they overlook-it’s not where the daddy was but the mommy-they need some basic facts of life explained.

The fantasy that they can just ask for something and get what they want? Do they know about the Gulf of Tonkin? The Warren report? Do the Americans actually believe they choose who is president, that their vote “matters” and it’s all just as easy as a paperwork loophole.

You would try to persuade them because they vote. And they will be more likely to listen to you if you quit calling them idiots.

Question: We all know Republicans are dumb as rocks, so who cares? Obama is still a horrible excuse for a President.

The Donald enjoys his celebrity. And he likes to let his freak flag fly (his hair, more famous than John Edwards hair). It wouldn’t surprise me if his investigation revealed that Obama was born in Hawaii. The Republicans would slap their slanted foreheads. Who knew?

I don’t believe Trump is serious about running (or that Jeb is serious about not running). Also, Trump is not a neo-liberal and so will not be allowed anywhere near the oval office. But I would vote for him just to watch him fire people. Don’t worry. My vote doesn’t count. I live in Louisiana.

I find the tone of the responses to my comments odd in light of the belittling people like me got last year when we argued against validating sellout Dems by voting for them last year and were called far worse than anything I’ve written on this thread.

Frankly, at this point, I’m not even sure why anyone who thinks it makes any sense to cast a vote for Obama in 2012 would be spending so much time at FDL.

Perhaps because it’s not all about Obama. I see the Lake as more of an issues oriented site, not a DKos clone Dem party site. The Lake started the call for justice for Bradley Manning, not the Dem Party, not the WH. Firedoglake did that. There are more things going on in the world than Obama. If you read the comments at the Lake overall there aren’t a lot of pups who have said they’ll vote for Obama. If not voting for Obama is your only focus I think you’re missing out on a lot of stuff.

A high percentage of people who blog here regularly have stated frequently that they will never ever vote for Obama again. Period. The end.

Sure there are some who still defend Obama, but most do not. Many have stated that they have quit the Dem. party entirely and reg. Indie. Plus many of us have stated frequently that we tend to vote third party on a regular basis and will most likely do so in 2012.

I’m not entirely clear why you continue to complain about people supporting and/or voting for Obama. For the most part, those who post here regularly “let go” of Obama quite some time ago.

You may want to make similar arguments/start similar discussions on other blogs (I don’t really know). Just seems to me that you’re flogging a dead horse here (and *appearing* to be quite angry about it). JMHO, but can’t figure out why you keep saying the same stuff repetitively. I think we “get it,” thanks. You hate Obama; most of the rest of us feel similarly.

A lot gets said here by many people. I’m not really sure why I get so much attention for pointing out that the Republican candidates’ nonsense isn’t nearly so much our problem as is the bullshit coming from the Democratic Party candidates.

I didn’t realize I seemed angry. I’ll try to work on not appearing angry.

If my point amounts to no more than flogging a dead horse here, then why do so many others get upset when I point out that FDL should be focusing on the liars, sellouts, and charlatans who claim to be liberal and/or progressive when running for office, only to change their stripes by acting anything but liberal and/or progressive once in office, rather than wasting time bsing about the rightwing crazies?

I guess I’m just not getting something about what you all are trying to do here.

Yesterday and today the comments you’ve made that I’ve seen were mainly chiding the community for voting for Obama in 08 and predicting they will do so again next year. The only announced national Dem candidate I know of so far is Obama.

You do realize that there are 435 Representatives and 2 Senators from each state, right? Are we to go through each and every one of those people at the Lake? How many people here know anything about some Rep from a state nowhere near where they live? We can focus on individuals when they do something egregious but to hammer away at every neoliberal in Congress would be a tremendous expenditure of effort and time. That’s what getting involved locally is all about. You’ll do more good on the ground working to get somebody you like elected in your district or state than you will pointing out the foibles of your Rep here, other than to let people know just how bad s/he is.

then why do so many others get upset when I point out that FDL should be focusing on the liars, sellouts, and charlatans who claim to be liberal and/or progressive when running for office, only to change their stripes by acting anything but liberal and/or progressive once in office, rather than wasting time bsing about the rightwing crazies?

I think FDL bloggers are feeling “upset” or “annoyed” because – as I just stated (and I’ve personnally witnessed several others doing the same) – MANY of us DO, in fact, discuss – ad nauseum – the liars, sellouts & charlatans who claim to be “liberal” but then are corporate whores. Gee whiz, Knox, I’ve been spouting off about that for so long here that I don’t even know how often I’ve said just that – and certainly not just about Obama. I’ve seen all kinds of so-called “Democratic” (and note how I just wrote that label, which is how I often do it) pols being called out for all kinds of duplicity, lies, sell outs, etc etc. Not just at the Fed level, either, albeit that’s where the worst sell outs appear to “live.”

Sure this particular thread of BT’s often focuses on the T-GOP, but not always. Are we not to call out the T-GOP?? If not, why not?? I feel that the so-called “Tea Party” and/or “Republicans” should be called out often. In theory, at least, they, too, are meant to be “representing” us. So… why not call them out.

Just an fyi & up to you to decide what to do: you seem very very angry, defensive and attacking. That’s just how I feel. I like a lot of your comments, but I feel that your approach lately would be more effective if you toned down the anger and the attcks on FDL bloggers. That’s just me, and I’m only serving to hold up a mirror that reflects my particular filter.

If you feel people are getting “upset,” then you might want to consider why. You are mostly preaching to the choir. Suggest that you state your feelings and ideas in a more dispassionate way. I do appreciate your passion, fwiw. Your frustration with the political system is eminenty justified, but attacking those who are pretty like-minded seems at least somewhat unjustified and not terribly effective. JMHO. Best to you.

And many here at FDL have stated that they plan to either vote third party in 2012 – based on the likely assumption that O will be the so-called “D” candidate – and/or will write in someone’s name or something. Many bloggers here have stated that, and then, there are several bloggers at FDL who are doing their best to run “Dump Obama” campaigns and find candidates to primary O.

Knox: you might want to spend some of your energy on those efforts, some of which are discussed regularly at MyFDL. Just an idea. Go find a worthwhile effort – either locally or nationally – to put your energy behind, and then come back to post regularly at FDL to let us know how it’s going. I’m sure many of us would laud your efforts and be very interested in your progress.

Many voters will vote for Obama because they feel they have no other choice. Many 3rd party candidates are perpetual candidates and won’t get many votes. Others, like the Greens and Socialists won’t get many votes, either, because your basic voter thinks voting for them is throwing their vote away. We’ve got a long way to go before families where both adults are working at least one job have an honest source of information on which to make a choice. The number of folks who read blogs, and/or books on politics/economics/etc, is a drop in the bucket compared to the number who watch the Nightly News or cable. We are beginning to make a difference but it’s going to be a long, hard slog. I’ve been in this struggle for 40 years and don’t have a lot to show for it but they haven’t killed me yet so I’m still here.

I’ve been approaching this from the wrong direction.

What is it that you want from Firedoglake, Knox?

Why does FDL spend so much real estate defending O every little thing when he has not supported a single progressive cause.
Please talk about american citizens suffering dying for no healthcare.
Don’t really care what happens to anyone else anywhere else. It is dire situation for so many citizens here.

totally agree.

This whole cert issue(?) is not important unless it is instrumental in getting a wingy Repub a convention nod. Seems to me that said nod would be a favor to the Dems as well as a reason for the Indees to vote for O. Maybe the question should be: how can the birther wingies be encouraged to continue doing what they do do so well.

Why does FDL spend so much real estate defending O every little thing when he has not supported a single progressive cause

I agree with the latter part of your sentence, but I sure would appreciate some examples – links to posts – that support your former assertion.

Unattributed assertions of that nature are pretty specious. Back up your comments with examples, and then I’d be happy to discuss more. I disagree that FDL spends “…so much real estate defending O every little thing…” When? Where? News to me. Maybe you’re confusing this website with some other website? (serious and not being mean or snarky).

Good question! And some clarity on that might lead to Knox writing some good posts at MyFDL. I think s/he would do a great job and encourage that.

I get informed at FDL. I stopped watching tv a while back. FDL does a great job where most news organizations fail.

And I like that FDL at times goes beyond informing readers to taking action. Whatever else I might think of Jane, I can’t argue with her resolve when she wants to make a difference.

And I usually like the debates. Re the 2008 election, I didn’t mean to chide anyone for the way they voted in 2008, though how people voted in 2008 and why does seem relevant when discussing what position people would like to see FDL take come 2012. From my point of view, it was other people who turned the heat up and started arguing with me. If we’re not going to discuss points of view and opinions, then what are the comments for?

Those who are obsessed with whether President Obama has a valid birth certificate will never vote for him in 2012 anyway.

But, who is the biggest winner by having a media focus on the birth certificate issue? That would be President Obama himself. Why, because instead of discussing the REAL issues such as jobs, erosion of our infrastructure, climate, etc., the focus is on the irrelevant. The President can waste time and laugh about “silly questions” instead of answering why he escalates wars, fights against real reform of Wall Street, and many other issues.

That’s not an answer to my question:

What is it that you want from Firedoglake?