I’ve not read this study in any detail, so I can’t comment on it beyond what I confess is a skim-over. Scott McLemee’s take is probably about right; indeed, the argument seems rather banal: to sum up, essentially, the “anti-war movement” of the last decade dried up because Obama won the presidency, even though Obama has a less than impressive a record when it comes to ending wars.
Well, sure. Democratic voters tend to wanly hope that Democratic politicians will do what their elected representatives will do what they were elected to do, though they know better, deep down. After all they have to worry about their jobs, or lack of same, in a crap economy. And Obama has probably done sort of just enough to keep people from continuing to be pissed off about the wars, though starting a new one is probably pushing it kinda.
Essentially the study seems to be saying that most Americans vaguely expect, or pray, that representative democracy is not nowadays an absolute sham, or else they just drink to forget that, yeah, it is, mostly.
The study doesn’t seem to be suggesting that the reason most of us farther to the left than Joe Lieberman (more than half the country!) thought that the Iraq war in particular was a horrible idea was because it was George W. Bush’s idea. Why, you’d have to be a complete twit to misread the study to get that idea…
Oh hello, Instatwit.
Yeah, it’s as if all that self-righteous moralism, and cries or war criminal and illegal wars and concentration camps at Gitmo was just a lot of lying, self-serving twaddle by people who really just wanted power for their team. Who knew?
Well, some of us did. And pointed it out at the time. And, well, we’re going to keep rubbing it in now.
Hang on until I tell you where to rub it, putz.
If Obama had been the Democrat Democrats wanted elected, well, we’d have a representative democracy, dammit.
But we don’t, so, sláinte.



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thersday nite!
Thers! Happy Wednesday Night!
Evening.
Sorry for the bummer post, but there you go.
THERSday!
I still demand that we get the fuck out of Iraq and Afghanistan (and Libya!). I also think Obama has shown himself to be a warmongering asshole like Dubya the dim. The lack of an active antiwar movement might have a little bit to do with the fact that Dubya crashed the economy and Obama shows no inclination to fix it so that folks have a few more pressing, immediate, and personal issues to deal with (given that we do not have a draft or widely shared suffering from these wars of stupidity).
so, sláinte thers *clink clink*
Oh, Thers, you’re such a purist. Every D knows it’s about voting for the candidate who sucks less.
And if you fail to do that, you are completely responsible for the collapse of every virtue of the U.S.
Like no sex until marriage?
I hate Obama more than I’ve hated any president ever, including Nixon, Reagan, and Bush 43. And that is saying something.
WTB.
WORSE THAN BUSH.
What does “no sex until marriage” have to do with the candidate who “sucks less.” *g*
On edit: Perhaps we could invite Monica to opine.
If Obama had been the ‘Democrat that Democrats wanted elected’ means we’d have a ‘representative democracy’? Um, no. This is the crux of the problem; it’s systemic.
End the unitary exective. End the national security state. Restore checks-and-balances. Will this happen? No. Obama or no Obama. Republican or Democrat, or whatever.
I think that may have more to do with no sex after marriage. ;-)
Thers! Great post, I only wish I wasn’t falling asleep so I could stay and talk about it.
Sigh. This odd state of having a (temporary) job to go to every day sucks, some ways, such as having to go to bed early.
OTOH, on Friday, when the paycheck is directly deposited, it will suck less.
it is a virture that Republicans have lost and are trying to find again. Kind of cause and effect thing. It is all Thers’ fault.
According to stats I misremember, no sex after marriage requires somewhere between a year and a decade.
Also the way campaigns are run, and where the money comes from. With that, too tired………
It’s possible!
I like how Insty is a Professor, and who therefore knows that the first rule of being presented with an academic study is to say, “gosh, I wonder how I can use this to glibly support my preconceived snotty ideas about people it pays me not to like.”
And you call yourself a Doctor…
I’m all in favor of blaming the messenger. It’s so much easier than finding the real root of the problem. So Ther’s fault it is!
(Sorry Thers, but you happen to be the “poster” for this particular blame game.)
That’s such a cynical thing to say. No wonder it makes sense.
CLINK! CRASH!
(Whoops, beg pardon…)
That works as it is never a Republican’s fault because they are pure.
grrrr
I do not. I call myself a Dr. and have this odd professional interest in politics (I am a political anthropologist primarily interested in structural inequality, its origins, and operations).
Ding.
Purity on the D side is widely regarded as having sexual relations with every member of every sex who shows up in the bar on a particular evening.
So purity is a losing tactic for our side.
Cuz the rules are rigged, just ask the Kochheads!
I must have been in a hurry.
Of what is Instapundit an alleged professor? My guess would be sports medicine.
Damn, that means you gotta buy booze for everyone! Might be cheaper to be an independent.
True, but I am interested in finding out how they are rigged, who is rigging them, and how they got that way. I am also interested in counterhegemonic responses to that rigging and alteric approaches to politics.
Aloha, Thers, another great post…!
Aloha, Dr. D… I wanted to give Guv. Schweitzer’s little ’round-up’, there with all those Repugnant bills, two thumbs up…! The brand was awesome…! ;-)
Quite predictably, he is a professor of law.
Republicans are horrific because they are less a political party than a state of mind. Democrats are feckless, and a ‘multi-party’ organization. Better to get rid of all Republicans and deal with the multi-party, amorphous Democrat Party. (If the game isn’t over, which, I fear, it is, given corporatist rule without counter-weight.)
I am sure your students find all of that to be fascinating.
Being an independent means no sex with no one.
See, only Rs win. They get to be pure & have sex at the same time.
It was great political theater, but more a testament to how batshit crazy our Republicans are than to Schweitzer’s progressivism. He is actually a ConservaDem slightly to the right of our senior senator, Max Baucus.
No, their eyes glaze over the same as yours did.
but r’s only have sex only for procreation purposes and the missionary position is all that is permitted
I hope they all get STD’s.
Well that and wetsuits with two dildoes or meth and gay hookers or possibly goats.
Hee hee.
Just remarking on how Insty likes to flash his academic status, but then pulls shit like not even bothering to read a study before assuming it fits his preconceptions.
Cummon DrD. Don’t make me intellectually masterbate while googling what those words mean. Plz provide commoners’ translation. Thx.
Oh granny Suz, surely you don’t believe what you read! I thought you’d be too savvy by now.
Thankee!
He is just showing off! ;)
ex#2 was a fundy r
Going off half cocked really is the conservative way.
But, but, how could you expect a man of his stature to actually read something? Words should only form his own opinions and thoughts, anything else is just white noise caused by poor, stupid people, unlike himself.
Does he belong to the same country club as John Yoo?
420 innit?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZT9t6oMBhI
I know.
It’s my pleasure to respond in kind.
He’s no doubt a “strict constructionist” anyway, which to him means that the Constitution was written by Ross Douthat.
I was being mean and throwing out postmodern jargon. Counterhegemonic basically means challenging the prevailing (politically dominant) constructions of issues (for instance insisting that we have a revenue problem, not a spending problem is counterhegemonic). Alteric/alterity is sort of similar in this context and refers to “otherness.” Generally speaking it refers to political action by political outsiders (the disempowered or unrepresented). What we do here and on other progressive websites generally fits into those modalities.
Oh, I’d never say they were HALF cocked.
I suppose you could say that they are fully cocked up.
If he ever explained his views on the constitution to me I might have the sudden urge to
strangle(something that doesn’t involve violence =P) him while crying over being the same species. You’re probably right though…OK, I have youth to corrupt in the manana, niters
Appreciate your explanations.
Not that they’ll necessarily stick.
But still very instructive in the sense that I am now, & always have been, out of the academic loop. So I like a small insight into how academes frame issues.
g’nite thers
Sleep well and corrupt them good. Do something really radical and teach them to be truly literate, unlike Instaputz.
G’night. (By the way, you have my vote for “Best 2012 Republican Convention Motto:” DEATH AND STUPIDITY.)
“It take a village to raise a child”. Well the beltway villagers have been raising a crops of idiots for some time now.
The concept of hegemony comes from the work of Antonio Gramsci, who argued that elite maintain control not only through political and economic control, but also through controlling discourses (the ways that we frame, talk about, and understand issues). What we call “the Village” or the “Villagers” here represent the hegemonic (dominant, controlling) forces and constructions. When we talk about someone being “shrill” or “not serious”, we are referencing counterhegemonic or alteric constructions of issues. It is a really useful tool for understanding the operations of political systems.
Evening firedoggies!
It takes The Village to raise an idiot.
Obama the candidate was a total fraud. It was a flawless performance. He is the artful dancer. He is a shape shifter. It’s awesome. He fooled a huge number of people not all of whom are fools.
He had me going but lost me at FISA. But he had me going and I’m not even a Democrat.
Of course now we know what he is. Wrong. He’s gonna run as a liberal again and will probably get reelected. Unbelievable! Is this a great country?
Get the Villagers & hegemonic control of the discourse in its economics applications, though I could not for the life of me (unlike you) trace the history of thought behind it.
I tend to take your intellectual “hegemony” in the context of Rs’ reality creation. Which then centers the issue in language that everyone can participate in.
My fave feature of FDL is the rhetorical Qs.
He gives great
oralspeech.Well, Obama never really ran as a Left liberal/progessive. There were warnings. He never accepted same-sex marriage. He said he’d ramp up in Afghanistan. But most of us preferred to believe in his snake-oil. Hope! (BTW, that was the last thing to crawl out of Pandora’s Box.) My big Uh-oh! moment was when Obama had Rick Warren deliver the Invocation at his Inauguration. It was then I knew in my bones we were truly fuct.
I think you basically understand the concepts here. It is not unlike the talk of “framing” that people talk about here and elsewhere. The hegemony concept introduces the power dimension into the discussion to explain why (other than superior framing) some constructions succeed while others fail. One reason why Republican frames succeed and progressive frames do not is conservative control over the media (or at least an alliance of interests between conservatives and the corporate interests that control the media).
Aloha, Kris…! ;-)
Good evenin CT. How’s the island?
I cannot say I ever thought he was any better than a centrist (though he has turned out to be further to the right than I thought or at least has moved in that direction). As depressing as it is to say it, I still think he was the best choice we had before us. That in itself is a condemnation of the current system.
Great news, everyone!
Ethicists Update List Of Acceptable Things To Masturbate To.
*heh* My fave Shrub era T-shirt is still… “A Village in Texas Is Missing It’s Idiot” ;-)
Indeed. It’s been said time and again. The lesser of two evils is still evil.
That we’re forced to choose amongst multiple evils in every election cycle is the tombstone of this democracy.
Or in my (excessively economic frame) some frames succeed and others fail is bc some frames have more financial support than others.
I oversimplify, but on purpose to make a point.
Whatderu, sum kinda purist?
As a Marxist (and therefor political-economic determinist), I would generally concur with that, though there are other intervening variables.
I’ve been told I’m the sanctimonious kind.
DrDick,
Indeed. And where do we go from here?
Hercules/Sampson pulled down the pillars of the temple. Are we at that point? Sensing some Americans don’t care what happens to America anymore, and perhaps for good reason. Not saying that’s my opinion, however.
*heh* Sometimes the Chamberpots can really have a lasting effect…! ;-)
Yowza! DrDick, I am a Marxist also, but as a system of historical analysis (it hugs the world so closely, as Butterfield said). But it is a method. No determinism here. That’s Leninism (or Communism).
The problem with any revolutionary activity is that some Americans do care. Enough to be violent. Any attempt to remake our government in a progressive fashion would result in civil war. IMHO.
There are a lot of teahadists out there who would like the opportunity to kill for a cause.
I’d submit this as exhibit A.
At this point, I am not sure where we go from here, though I think there are signs that we may be a turning point. In part, the more reactionary conservative elements seem to have overreached themselves and may have stirred up groups (like seniors and labor) which have been divided and ineffectual. Ideally, we should use that rising momentum to recapture the democratic Party from the monied interests, but I am not sure if that is even possible at this point. Unfortunately, the alternative is establishing a viable progressive third party and the structural barriers to that are formidable at best and insurmountable at worst. There is a reason that no third party has captured more than about 5% of the national vote in the last century.
Megan Twit says:
Did this person ever pass a course in English, at any level?
This person gets paid to write articles for a magazine?
OMG. WTF. etc…
Night all.
g’nite ecahn
I think you could count the Tea Part as a pseudo-third party. And they captured a lot more of the vote. The obstacle to building a progressive movement of that size and vigor (albeit short) is finding a way to inspire the people. Obama did this effectively, as did the Tea Party leaders.
Obama’s route won’t work again.
The Tea Party did it with fear and hate.
We need a new strategy and I’m plum out of ideas.
Marx quite specifically 9and at great length)argues that economics (specifically the mode of production) is the primary driver of social change and is unquestionably an economic determinist. I am not an orthodox Marxist, but have incorporated other elements and modified his original formulations in various ways, but still would argue that the primary drivers in society are political (control of power) and economic (control of things). Lenin is something entirely different, arguing for the necessity of centralized state power among other things.
Night! Time for me to toddle off as well. Take care all.
Lost Souls on Funk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl5oRu2eKnI
g’nite dr dick
Yep. And there are absolute, structural reasons why we don’t have third parties; however, we can have two parties that are more like ‘electoral conspiracies’ than classic parties, with party discipline. Huge topic. Love to talk more. Running outta gas. I’m sure your class would be fun, wish I was there.
The teaparty are simply tools of the more reactionary interests within the Republican Party. They are in no way independent of the Republicans, but rather a mechanism for the reactionaries to seize control of the party.
In the Chris Hedges interview video posted by Edger yesterday his response to that question was that he had been present twice when overwhelming civil disobedience started in other countries and that both times it had been started by something totally inocuous, and totally unforseeable. In a comment on that same post wendydavis said that “we just need wait for the bell to be rung”. Somebody tell me where the damn bell is and what it looks like and I will ring it.
Last comment: Marxism is determinist if you accept or project an outcome based on the ‘mode of economic production.’ I see it as a method instead. Maybe revisit this on another thread? On that note, good night DrDick & all!
In Tunisia it looked like a young man setting himself on fire. I don’t think that would work here, though.
During the Health Insurance reform boondoggle debate, and leading up to the nov. ’10 elections I wasted uncounted hours blogging locally, trying to reason with right wingers. They refuted me by blindly repeating talking points, and most couldn’t even spell. It was disheartening to put it mildly.
Johhny Ryall.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43d2m8bqXZM
The peace movement was commendable during the Vietnam fiasco but they wore us down with one conflict after another.
Once the political hacks stopped coming to the vigils (after they got what they wanted), then the clergy and the academics backed off…..then everyone else disappeared through ?attrition?…….
Or between the censorship, the military ‘cheerleading from within their own ranks’, and the activist fatigue…….
It is fear, fear, fear for some folks too.
http://tomthumbsgallery.wordpress.com/2011/01/06/peace-vigil-paintings/
so, sláinte.
I would’ve ended that with “pogue mahone.”
Obama hasn’t done anything whatsoever to stop the Wars. He’s expanded everything — including Iraq, which has more contractors there then when Bush was president, 17 permanent Military Bases, and has no true end date.
Obama has 7 wars going on (Bush only had 3).
1. Afghanistan
2. Pakistan
3. Iraq
4. Libya
5. Yemen
6. Iran (CIA-hostilities)
7. Venezuela (CIA-Columbia proxy War games)
There will never be any end to this madness with Obama as President.
Who did Instawit support?
Hillary I’ll-stick-with-George-Bush’s-clusterfuck-until-I’m-”savvy”-enough-to-figure-out-that-it’s-ruining-me Clinton?
All of the we-told-you-so wizards were helping fill-in-the-blank?
Just askin’…
I should add, he’s got a point about the (supposed) antiwar bloggers who are covering Obama’s ass, now that they’re HIS shitmires.
Getting Digby and some of the other centrists to even type the word “Iraq”, is about like asking the Pope to use the favorite 12 letter National Basketball Association word:
“m———-r”.