The result is Armadillo, winner of the Cannes International Critics Week, an unselfconscious look at war and those who have to wage it; because as the men are told at the film’s beginning, their government has determined a national policy and it is the duty of soldiers to implement it.
Armadillo follows four soldiers as they tell their families the news they are shipping out; as they party their last night away with booze and a stripper; then, in country, through patrols, bombings and memorial services to finally seeing fierce action, and to that end, what comes of warfare.
There is no narration, no talking to the camera, no exposition; simply doing the business of war and filling the time between sorties. Before their first mission, boring and unsuccessful with little progress made, the men are briefed that their mission is to protect the locals from the Taliban and to befriend them. But the locals are wary: The soldiers will eventually leave
If I talk they cut my throat,
says one local when the soldiers suggest that that by cooperating to remove the Taliban, it will be possible to build a school for the children.
The soldiers are wary, too, the Taliban and locals look the same and IEDs could be anywhere. The soldiers are told by their officers:
People fight because they’re poor.
True on both sides. Many join the military here because it can provide them with employment and options. If they survive.
Livestock and children are killed in firefights, fields are shot up and trampled. The villagers are paid for their losses, and in between our four protagonists interact with the unhappy locals, phone their families, watch porn, play video games, swim, maintain the camp, deal with comrades who are wounded or killed. When an IED injures one of their leaders, he vows to return from a Danish hospital to show his troops it can be done. But the death of three fellow Danes in another camp spurs a funeral pyre, and the need for a different kind of mission than simply patrolling. They wanted action, they get it.
In a stunning sequence, the soldiers blacken their faces for an ambush and watch as a compound is cleared of women and children (and possibly Taliban members carrying out weapons), then Metz and Skree take us right into the line of fire as the Danes battle the Taliban. Men are struck by bullets, we are unsure who at first. This is not Hollywood, this real real, and these are men we know, men whose families we have met, who potentially fall injured or dead; we won’t know until they get to safety.
What happens next caused an uproar in Denmark: Taliban members are spotted in a ditch, a grenade is tossed, and once the smoke clears, two soldiers dispatched the dying men
in the most humane way possible.
Taliban weapons are brought back to camp as spoils of war, there is a debriefing. And then hell breaks loose: Someone called his mother and told a version of what happened, a version we did not see, a version which the mother then called into headquarters, a version which could cause everyone a great deal of trouble. Loyalty is questioned.
Other questions are raised by Armadillo as well, and we’ll discuss them tonight.
It’s cool to make a difference.
says one after the victorious battle. Is this war making difference? Is it making Afghanistan safer, a better country for its citizens and making the soldiers who fight there better people?



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Before we start, just a couple quick notes: Please refresh your browser every minute or so to see new comments, questions and answers. To reply to specific comment, hit the reply button underneath it and then type away. Always after a comment or question hit “send comment.”
Please stay on topic–in this case tonight’s film, Armadillo, the reaction caused by events in the films, what happened in Cannes, as well as matters related to troops Afghanistan and what war does to soldiers and civilians.
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Hello Janus, welcome to Firedoglake Movie Night. Thank you for being here tonight.
Janus, Welcome to the Lake. Thank you for an amazing film.
Tak, Jans. And now you have seen the extent of my Danish. Thank you very much for being here. Armadillo is astounding.
Hi
How long were you in Afghanistan filimng the movie?
had you been there before?
what di you have ot go through to get embedded, and what did you expect? were your expectations exceeded? And how did you come upon those four soldiers?
The trailer is stark depiction of combat and it’s effects.. Great!
there for 3,5 months, first and only time
Would you go back?
The negotiations with the army were dealt with by my producers before I embarked the project. The soldiers were part of a battle group of ten that had volunteered to be filmed.
Expected more scared soldiers but found disturbingly thrilled young men
I get my kicks out of filmmaking rather than war. Have had enough of that and feel that I fulfillled my quest with this film. So the answer is not… actually not comfortable round uniforms after this experence
Tell please us a bit about the situation at the film’s end, how that situation was dealt with in Denamrk, and later the reaction in Cannes.
To me, watching what you had shot and then to hear a report made by someone who wasn’t there to the military police, reporting things we hadn;t seen–it was intense.
Thank you Nahant. I hope it will inspire you to see the film. To me it is about the savagery of war and how it brutalizes the minds of soldiers and brutalizes the identity of nations as well I guess. The young soldiers I following didn’t just go to a physical outpost in Afghanistan but also a mental outpost – the end of civilization.
Well. Basically I think it is questionable wether the soldiers stick to the rules of engagement. A lot of the things that happen in the film suggest that they might have crossed the line and liquidated wounded people, as one of the soldiers even says directly to the camera.
In Denmark the film caused an investigation of the incident in the ditch.
Wasyourfottage used in the investigation?
Can you elaborate? Were they that way before they got there or did their experience there change them?
we are actually there. It is just very unclear what precisely happens as we don’t have the images of the taleban that get shot. it is “only” caught on helmet cam in the far corner of the frame. But we here the sounds, and one soldier says something like: “Let’s just kill them”
And if an enemy is wounded so badly they will die shortly, what are the rules?
So the Afghanis who live there aren’t civilized?
How can one see this film?
The soldiers had some of the raw material themselves. This was available to the investigation I guess. Out of principle we didn’t give anyone access to our raw material.
I did hear someone say “I have a grenade” and “let’s kill them” But what we didn’t see, or maybe I missed because it was very intense for me, was what the mother reported her son told her, that Rasmun the previously injured, now recovered leader, was there laughing, and other things that didn’t match up the debriefing or the battle.
I think their experience changed them. But the traumatic experience of war happens at a more profound level than what at least I suspected would be an immediate chock from the violence. The violence seemed to be quite unreal at times. And the excitement of combat was quite seductive to a lot of the soldiers. The change was a slowly grinding of the nerves, and also on the way that I felt they gradually gave in to the cynicism and in the end barbarianism that this type of unconventional combat demanded of them
It opens at IFC in New York on friday
Good. We just had a case here where a documentarian’s hours of footage was subpoenaed in a court case.
Although lucky enough to not see combat I Had several uncles who only relate a smidgen of what they went through in WII… None of it was pretty and I saw the effects of such combat on at least one uncle who was still storming the beaches at Iwo Jima.. And friends who went through the TET offensive and worse and no one wanted to talk about it… War is nothing more than a Meat Grinder of the Young.. Both hearts and Minds…
It must have bene frustrating for the men–very little in the way of results (not being able to rout the Taliban or help the locals; the accidental killings, the wounding oand deaths of thei fellows…and for what? Brutal.
That’s obviously not what I meant :-) War is the end of civilisation, but maybe actually part of civilisation. The terms are constantly negotiated I think. I experienced that the young men I followed were very keen to get some sort of reality kick out of being close to death. They romantisezed and fetichised war. That was scary. I think they travelled to a dark place in the mind that I have chosen to call “the end of civilisaton” (with a reference to Heart of Darkness)
Janus’ final shot in Armadillo illustrates that beautifully.
Yet the retained their idealism, they are there to make a difference. Sad that difference is killing rather than being able to build a school or otherwise help.
The increasing frustration was a big part of it… along with alienation, fear, paranioa and mistrust. They never know who is who and they fight a ghost enenmy. Somehow their relief and reactions to the killings are understandable. Very human i guess…
When will it be in RWC,Ca area?
The army tried to get their hands on our material after we shot the incident in the ditch, but we managed to smuggle it out of the camp, and I think they knew they had a bad case…. but the Danish army is fortunately not as professional in dealing with the media as I believe the US army is…
Janus, how were you and your film crew changed? Living, witnessing the war.
Hedges’s War Is a Force the Gives Us Meaning is the best book I’ve read on war. Hedges has an amazing classic education, so traces the history back to earliest western writings. He is also an ordained minister, iirc, Yale or Harvard or some such divinity school. Also a war junky, having worked for a long long time as a war correspondent.
So yes, war is integral to civilization.
I don’t know unfortunately. Maybe if we manage to make enough noise theaters outside NY will screen the film. It is unfortunately difficult to get screens for a foreign language war doc in the US… even if it is very good ;-)
It is coming out on PBS/POV in September I think
One of civilisations great paradoxes… and one of the central questions of the film.
It’s hard to say really. As I said before, I feel very uncomfortable round uniforms after this experience and I have become very critical to what i believe is a moment of increasing militarism in the so-called western world. One might call it a form of humanitarian-militarism, where we are trying to do good with one hand and being very coercive (Killing) with the other. I find trace of this everywhere and i think it is often unquestioned.
On a more personal level. I have stopped fooling so much around and have started taking things more seriously. I definitely dedicate myself more to the people that are important to me
I was worried their first day out on patrol–the kids running up to them. That must have been nerve wracking. How far a range do the hand held metal detectors have, and was it one person in particular who was the sweeper?
Looking forward to it..
Referring back to my 20, I would think that the local Afghanis are what, if western people hadn’t lost their sense of irony, would call truly civilized. Absent westerners or Soviets invading their homes, I’m guessing they had conflicts, possibly some murders and other crime, but less than the full scale slaughter of war.
Civilization to me doesn’t mean expensive consumer or military toys. It has everything to do with how you treat other humans.
I know your film is from the western POV, but that’s one of my pet peeves (to put it mildly). I keep trying, fruitlessly, to get westerners to look at it from the locals’ POV.
Not that I understand that very much myself, but I keep trying.
Armadillo can be rated and requested for a future rental on Netflix, once it does come out on DVD. That’s a great way for to make a noise about a film you want ot see, it lets distriubutors knwo there is interest.
oo! that’s nice.
all subtitled, no dubbing?
The film, because of how it was directed gives a strong sense of what the locals are feeling. I think it would be wonderful if a filmmakers’ group would give out flip cameras and let locals film for themselves
They have a sweeper in each battle group (4 in a platoon) and sometimes a group of engineers who are experts in handling IED threats.
Reg. the children. To me they were really an document of how impoverished people in that area are. They just came up to beg for some candy or a pen. Or because of excitement. The soldiers however saw it as proof that they were popular in the area. Have seen so many pictures of soldiers with smiling afghan children. Now I realised that these moments were always very brief encounters. It all felt like some weird sort of war-tourism to me.
PBS / POV Broadcast – August 30, 2011
http://www.pbs.org/pov/armadillo/
That would be a great idea.
One of the clever programs to get poor kids in U.S. to become more self-aware, articulate, and interested in their own lives, thus motivated, was to give them cameras. It is a very dated memory, perhaps in the 1980s, but as I remember it, it was wildly successful. Tried for only a small group, more’s the pity.
all so very disturbing.
another reason why your work is so important.
I would love to see that film too. Western soldiers approaching the villages seen from the villagers’ POV. Unfortunately that film is very dangerous to make – impossible with my complexion. Embedding with troops was the next best thing… trying to be aware of the blind spots and of the camp mentality that develops very quickly at an army base. Often I found that soldiers had very little clue of what actually went on outside the camp, but that they had a lot of opinions about it nevertheless. The lack of transparency was a huge problem and I think it goes for all levels relating to the conflict in Afghanistan.
Food, excitement for the kids; propganda and potential intelligence for the soldiers, as well as maybe some human, positive interaction, the notion of which you disspelled by translating what the kids were saying about Kim and the other soldiers.
Thanks Bev!
A Danish filmmaker friend of mine is trying to do this now. he has an Afghan background and is able to work in Helmand province where Armadillo is shot
Super. Will put in some requests and great ratings myself then :-)
Wow, that is wonderful! Could you possibly put us in touch?
Soldiers believe, because the children are friendly with them, that the entire society want the soldiers to be there to “eliminate” a common enemy.
Is that an accurate synopsis?
Well put.
My only similar experience was actual tourism on Lake Titicaca in Peru. The Uros tribe is very poor, lives on floating islands (harvested reeds from the shallow lake and kept piling them up as the lower ones rotted).
The kids begged us for sweets and coins. Big smiles; filthy hands held out, snotty noses bc they were all sick bc of wet feet. It was creepy beyond belief and I felt very guilty bc of their misery, my affluence, and my inability to do anything about it.
Of course. i think they still have a long way to go
:)
The locals are the real victims of the war… as always. But the soldiers stick to this idea that they are supressed by the taliban, and if they can just get the taliban out of the area (kill them). These people would be able to outlive their inner democratic capacities. However the taliban seem to be deeply intertwined with the locals… does this eccos past experiences?
while we have western troops in AFPak, engaged in the killing of the local populace, and being killed by them in turn, I think it would be very difficult to get a western film crew to document the locals’ POV and survive the experience for any length of time. Too many folks with guns and bad intentions (on all sides) for that to be a success, i think.
But, al jhazeera or filmmakers with ties to the region or culture might be able to pull it off.
Exactly. check 60
Yes, that is unfortunately the situation. And it creates a huge bias on the representation of the conflicts in that area.
sounds like we’re re-experiencing Vietnam. Trying to conquer an enemy we can’t see that has far stronger social and cultural ties to the civilian population. That didn’t end too well for us, or the Vietnamese.
Janus, thank you for your courage in making this film. I will try to see it, although I’m quite sure that I won’t feel better afterwards. Such a waste of hopeful lives.
You showed this very well, and also the icky business of paying off locals fo rthe damage done, as well as giving a sense that those sorts of transactions added to the soldiers’ level of ennui and frustration.
The locals didnt seem very opressed by Taliban,, except that they didnt want to discuss them with the soldiers. It appeared that the troops are doing the damage. And are unwanted.
but as you point out, the government has a policy.
The crazy thing is that some of the soldiers seem to romantisize the idea of reliving the vietnam experience. They even call it “namistan”… One should be careful drawng up too obvious parallels as the taliban for a lot of Afghans are seen as extremists. But there is definately somethng about the nature of the conflict that resembles vietnam. And I believe we have been there for a longer time now as well.
The taliban are the people. They’re just Pashtuns who are under represented in the U.S. puppet govt and who are willing to fight to push the detested foreigners out.
But I digress…
I remember shortly after 911 wishing two Marines good luck after I found out they were being sent to Afghanistan. It was clear then that Al Quaeda was behind the attacks, and that the Taliban was protecting them. 10 years later and the no 1 objective was never met, kill/capture Osama bin laden. We were never going to bring democracy to the area, and now it seems the only purpose after 10 years is to keep another corrupt government in power. It seems we just can’t stop the killing once it starts.
It’s been pointed out to me that Western men have no meaningful coming of age rituals. One young man I knew signed up for the Peace Corp in Africa during Bush 43 which turned into a shocking coming of age experience for that person. He couldn’t wait to get out of the country and has absolutely no interest in war and violence. I met a native elder from another country who helps young men come of age in his tradition’s way such that the young men come out having a sense of meaning and respect for life. I contend folks will get everything but that from interacting with the military as has been volunteered to me by recent vets.
And there is that romance of war–the funeral pyre scene.
And because I am always curious about these things: The food at camp in the mess hall?
Also how missions were you on during the time you were there.
well they are certainly not creating security for the locals, which is what the whole mission officially is about. The locals just want peace and they want to be able to grow their lands without their crops getting destroyed by the soldiers and without getting their houses bombed and relatives killed. This is prior to worrying about who is in power in faraway Kabul
I watched the movie “Platoon” once with a group of men of various ages. The response to the movie was quite different by age and background.
Nevertheless the US army advertises “Be all that you can be”. It’s not “Uncle Sam needs you”. This is the same sort of thing in Denmark.
Exactly.
Were the soldiers encouraging any poppy removal?swapping poppy growing for wheat? Is that an issue in Helmand?
that’s one of the national myths of the USA, very much like the “Noble, Lost Cause” of the South during our civil war. This myth though, is that the US could have “won” Vietnam if the politicians hadn’t stopped the military – which is utterly insane, but that’s what the right wing and a lot of the career military believed. it’s very similar to the Nazi’s myth that “Germany was stabbed in the back by (liberals, communists and Jews) after World War 1.
Isn’t it amazing how these ideas become so poisonous?
Food = Field rations (MRE’s)
We had weekly, sometimes daily, encounters with the enemy.
{ Thanks to Janus, Lisa, FDL and attendees for tonight’s salon! }
Rather “Chiquita
Uncle Samneeds you.”Huge issue. Poppy is the one source of income that the farmers have. The war in Helmand s all about Poppy. The local “taleban leader” is a drug lord that fighting to secure his income and the livelihoods of his “subjects”. It’s very feudal in those areas
It always seem to be the wet dream of military. Personally I think it seemed like a bit of a colonel Kurz story when General McCrystal got the sack. Armadillo shows how soldiers live in their own world, how they cultivate a group mentality that marginalises doubts, critique and questions.
From Helmand Province’s wiki.
Sometimes you get the most die hard fans of anti war films within the army itself. It is a weird mechanism, and you can never control the perception of a film. It is in the eyes of the beholder. With ARMADILLO we tried to as true to what we saw as possible and to explore the larger backdrop of the story through a fall from a grace narrative. But I am pretty sure that a lot of young people would happily enlist after having seen the film… it deals very directly with the seduction of war
Janus, tak for din kommende, tusind tak. This was wonderful, and we wish you many eyes watching Armadillo!.
next week we have Lance Black discussing his film The Lazarus Effect about the power of 40 cents a day to save the live sof HIV/AIDS patients in Africa. The film airs this Friday April 15th
at 5:25am ET on HBO2 EAST
8:25am ET on HBO2 WEST
thanks everyone. pleasure chatting with you…
but still, we’ve created another generation of soldiers whose lives are forever branded by war, and not in a good way — just listen to Vietnam vets today — a lot of pain, suffering and heartbreak and now we recreate that
Again this was an honor. Much respect to you Janus and to Lars for this intense and honest piece of filmmaking and for your being their when such and overwhelming incident occurred. Please keep making movies!
Thanks. Great discussion.
the three books that really stuck with me that i read in high school were Conrad’s “Heart of Darkness”, “Wuthering Heights”, and “Lord of the Flies” – it seems that we’re all just a few short steps from madness if we lose (or never had) that inner sense of who we are.
That’s one of the reasons that the older I get, the more I believe that wars should be fought (if at all) by men in their 30′s and older. It sickens me to see what happens to the child soldiers in Africa, and it numbs me to see young men and women lose their innocence by killing and dying.
Thank you so much Janus… i will definitely be telling others about your film.
Wonderful discussion. May your film reap the rewards it deserves :)
Thank you Janus – and Lisa, and Bev
I am sorry???? you need a film to prove what you already KNOW.
Give me more proof that it is all game that we are being used, that poor people everywhere are paying the price for what? for whom? the elite few.
give me more proof? lets’ get this message out there
YOU HAVE ALL THE PROOF YOU NEED
stop pretending you need more. Those that run this show are safe knowing you will do nothing because you will always demand more prrof, make more people more people aware, before YOU TAKE ACTION
HUMAN NATURE 101
If you don’t believe me. HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN the concentration camps. MILLIONS PUT TO THEIR DEATH. EVERYONE sent there KNEW THERE fate. GUARDS were outnumbered but the jews every day went along with the program did their work, knowing the end result. WHY? BECAUSE THEY NEEDED MORE PROOF THAT MAYBE THERE WAS ANOTHER EXPLANATION WHY THEIR FELLOW PRISONERS DID NOT COME BACK
As I said human nature 101. DENY or ask for more POOOF. WTF UP