Obama is already hard at work trying to find a way to give Cantor et al everything they want.

So… what exactly does this guy want america to be??

They are those kind of people, if you’re already a republican.

& what exactly is it that Eric and his pals want America to be? Sounds and smells like what they want is a Plutocracy.

That is really Nazi-speak. Wake up America. Coming from him…it must be some kind of Stockholm syndrome, syndrome.

When I read the name “Eric Cantor,” I threw up in my mouth a little bit. But other than that (and, of course, the general “Cantor Creep Vibe” thing), I appreciate the fact that you put this piece up.

So our gooper friends are all wet in the pants with worry about what the deficit will mean for the wallets of our kids and grandkids.
But when it comes to social security, we know what their program will mean for the wallets and pantries of our kids and grandkids: Catfood after 65 if you work for a living.

How is it that the Dems dont make the connection. We need to protect social security for our kids and grandkids; eliminate the FISA cap.
Tax the dead, not seniors.

He is a creep isn’t he?

I want Cantor to tell us how many in the Congress are collecting SS because I have read that quite a few are.
There are some that are so old they’ve probably been collecting for many years.

Exactly what O wants too.

I wonder where Cantor got his 50% number from (on edit I guess 90% is close enough)?

A quick Google search yields:

• For almost one in five (19%) of social security recipients, social security is their sole source of income.
• For 30% of social security recipients, social security accounts for 90% of their retirement income.
• More than half (56%) of those on social security rely on social security for more than half of their income.

Source: NASRA, Social Security Administration

http://moneyover55.about.com/b/2010/05/13/social-security-statistics.htm

Although I can’t vouch for the quality of the answer (comment #1 on that site is pretty funny).

Listen, we’re going to have to come to grips with the fact that these programs cannot exist if we want America to be what we want America to be.

Surfs don’t get to retire.

There’s something creepy about the dude…I mean, more than the average politician. And that’s saying something.

SSS…Social Security Solution. Talk about creeple.

The good kind of America, where God rewards the hard working and virtuous and punishes the lazy and morally weak.

I wonder where Cantor got his 50% number from

Same place he gets all of his ideas…

How in the f*ck did we become a country that elects eric f*cking cantor to anything? That has got to be the stupidest asshole in Washington.

Oh, a lie about Social Security is still a lie. It is the same as a lie about the budget. It is the same as a lie about reproductive rights. It is the same as a lie about war. It is a lie pure and simple and eric f*cking cantor is a shameless, evil liar.

Thanks for thepost BT.

Yeah…like Dick Tracy, Jim Carey in Mask, with Elvis lip. Somehow that just sends off strange vibes.

Another Fascist pig, it’s time to kick their ass’ and their Diebold america to the curb.

This is his view of America to be:

Socialize Costs
Privatize Benefits.

To get the second part and avoid the first, join the 400 Club.

Guess at least weird creepy Cantor is not lying about what he wants: to smash the middle and working class into groveling serfs, who’ll be grateful to watch their friends and neighbors being driven to some kind of poor-house work farm. Unsurprised.

And yet, no one one the left is out there presenting a vision of what we want America to be, it’s all reactive and defensive.

With the decline in the availability of pensions (401k’s are a lousy substitute for a defined-benefit pension), SS needs to expand to fill the gap. It needs to be a public pension system. In addition, now that structural unemployment is increasing and not likely to improve, like ever, we need to lower the retirement age.

Double benefits, lower retirement age to 55, put a floor under FICA withholding (the lowest-income people should pay little if anything), remove the FICA cap, make the FICA tax progressive, apply it to unearned income.

In other words, present a vision of what we want America to be, calculate the costs, and set taxes to raise that much revenue from those who can afford it.

This is really a moral (religious) belief for these people. Those who acquire the most wealth (the producers) deserve the most advantages, at the expense of the poor. It is sinful to care for those who are not producing. In fact those who are poor and not producing enough are sinners who should be punished.

I promise you. This is how these folks think. Read Rand. Rand is not just about economics. It is a philosophy of morality.

His vision for the country is one where the middle class and the working poor have just enough money to pay and support the wealthy elite and the monopolistic corporations. Beyond that you’re on your own. We’re not allowed to have any disposible income or financial security. A world where we’re nothing more than identured financial slaves to the elite.

Like…don’t let him near the kids, type vibes…

Are the deficit hawks in Congress willing to
forfeit their pensions?

Didn’t think so.

E-call Ublicans!

Nationwide!

ht/Raw cropped pix

What an anti-populist attitude toward such a popular program.

What do Cantor’s constituents think of his vision to cut programs like Social Security out of existence?

Every two years, the constituents of all other members of Congress should ask their Reps whether they agree with Cantor’s view that programs like Social Security must be cut out of existence.

Having no Social Security is OKIYAAR!!!

Mileage may vary…

Especially boyscouts. LOL

NPR says these remarks were delivered at the Hoover Institute. I wonder if he knew they were recorded.

Good point, but it goes way beyond Rand. Check out any of those “prosperity Christian” mega-churches. Not sure if any of the other religious groups out there have something similar. But the Rick Warren/Joel Ostein M.O. is all about: IF you’re mega-rich, it’s because you are waaaaaay more “deserving” in “God’s eyes,” and you are a better more holier than thou Christian. If you’re in trouble financially it’s because you are a debased sinner who God & Jesus frowns up, and whatever troubles you have are because you *deserve* them and MORE.

My family goes to these types of churches, and I’ve heard this message – almost in these exact words – too many times to count. Believe me, many congregants are getting this message loud & clear, and it’s why, at least this particular group, is so docile to such messages like Cantor’s. It’s all about getting whatever it is that you “deserve.” If you are “good,” then you’ll be rich. If you are “bad,” then you get to be poor debased sinner that you *deserve* to be.

I doubt that Cantor *cares* who hears what he brays out. The hubris of all of ‘em is not that mis-placed. The vast majority of citizens could hear this stuff 10,000 times per day, and they’d just go along with it. Why should Cantor care if anyone hears “the truth” according to Cantor?? No snark intended.

“Listen, we’re going to have to come to grips with the fact that these programs cannot exist if we want America to be what we want America to be.”

Listen Eric, ‘we the people’ decided a long time ago that we wanted to be the kind of country where economic hardship would not result in the elderly going homeless and begging in the streets.

We the people may not have understood, that when Reagan re-invented homelessness for Viet Nam vets and the mentally ill that it would eventually include the elderly too, but we sure as hell understand that now, and there are no magic words capable of covering up the fact that the MOTU have convinced the republicans and their base to work for a return to the days of wage-slavery and indentured-servitude.

God hates the poor, Jesus even said so , somewhere.

Thanks, Eric.

Cat food on sale.

Exactly. “Scoutmaster Cantor would like to help you with those merit badges, Jimmy…”

We’ve seen some self-professed “libertarians” posting frequently at FDL claiming that they’ll “never take Soc Sec” because they are “self-sufficient.” Believe me, that’s the kind of authoritarian propoganda being pushed (thanks to Koch funding) by the Rush-Glenn continuum. You think the T-GOP will *protest* the dismantling of Soc Sec? I seriously doubt it; they are too busy drinking the Kool Aid that Soc Sec is the devil’s work. I’m not kidding.

They are not too fond of Jewish people except for one…their “version” of Jesus hissef.

In their minds, Jesus said to hate the poor loudly & often, and Jesus also lavishly priased the money-changers in the Temple and exhorted his disciples to follow their example… doncha know?

We can haz “Natural Select Cuts Canned Cat Food?”

I wish I could photoshop..

Oh the they LOVE the Jews in Israel bc of those crapulous Tim LeHay “left behind” books which say that the Jews have to be in Israel for the rapture to happen. of course, if said rapture were to occur than the Jews in Israel are “on their own” & should get ready to kiss their butts good-bye. But that’s another story…

Jesus even said so , somewhere.

Prolly one of these esteemed persons of the cloth made the representation..

Heh…

Well, no. Probably not. That shit’s expensive.

We can haz this.

And we can haz cheezeburger.

President Door Mat will likely make Cantor’s vision a reality.

McCain is, for one.

Is there some other country that Republicans hold up as a model? Either now, or at any point in history. Or is this an experiment?

If I try to feed them that shit, Diva and Maestro (my two furries) will prolly scratch my eyes out. Nor would I blame them…

Well, of course. It’s not for the cats. It’s for us.

If Democratic Party leaders really want to win back control of the House and gain a supermajority in the Senate, using comments like this one would go a long way…

Of course, it should be obvious to all by now that Democrats just want to do their part in the kabuki, stirring half of the American people up against the other while their puppetmasters screw over us all with impunity.

Somalia.

And what exactly is it that you want America to be?

McCain is, for one.

Yeah, but he really needs it. How’s he supposed to live on his Senate salary, plus benefits, plus his wife’s gazillion dollars? Hell, he doesn’t even know where he’s gonna live…

Hmmm, I’d say about 1875.

Another disgusting certain-people-get-to-be-my-Rapture-body-shield meme.

I think most of the time he doesn’t know where he is.

OT, but I just wanted to point out how fucking stupid AT&T is.

All the perks without the crash. Now you can get High Speed Internet Without Home Phone from AT&T for just $14.95/mo.

What marketing guru decided to insult one of their products in order to promote another?

That was exactly my initial thought. Fightening, isn’t it?

How about a place where the top 400 individuals don’t have as much wealth and the next 150 million combined? Something like that might work…

Or maybe this…

Yes I agree as to that component of the right wing electorate. It is really little different than Calvinism put into practice. But the real powers on the right are the economics community. I think the floridly religious are more of a distraction for the opposing political strategists than anything else.. That is not to say they should not be challenged by the theologians and philosophers.

We tend to just throw off Rand as another theory of economics. It is not. It is a theory of morality and endows the business community with a moral right to entitlement. It is my . opinion that it should be taken on by the theologians as well as dissenting economists (if you can find one.)

Thinking of Joel Osteen and Ron Parsley, I remembered Reverend Ike who died a couple of years ago. Very entertaining man with the same philosophy except I think his vision was a bit more technicolor than that of Cantor and his oligarch friends.

Obama wants the rich to keep the cake and working and middle class Americans must content themselves with crumbs. This demonstrates to Obamabots that he really does “care” and the alternative is just unthinkable. The “unthinkable” is, out of despiration, the public organizes and throws off the yoke of neo-feudalism.” That is what is unthinkable to the plutocracy.

I think Paul Ryan would be in the mix too. :)

That economics community on the right, idiots like Mankiw, benefit from the fact that most Americans go into an ambien-like trance when economics is discussed. The right-wing, Laffer Curve, supply-side bullshit that Reagan and Kemp championed has been thoroughly discredited but you won’t find many of the former cheerleaders for trickle-down who will admit that. Gotta hand it to David Stockman, he admitted early on that Reagan’s economics was all wrong.

NPR has no longer any reason to appease the right: all the backbending to accomodate the right’s point of view was a total waste — the right would kill NPR, no matter.

Might as well let the truth be told, without a false balance given to the liars (viz, Donald Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, given microphones on the MSM).

NPR piece this morning on Bradley Manning — teh Gays! Not much about the USG torture program. “Frontline” tonite all about Mr Manning’s sexuality and family troubles.

The fiends in charge of the brig had method to their madness: forcing Mr Manning to stand nude at attention in the hallway multiplies the humiliation factor — when the prisoner of conscience is gay!

Obama wants the rich to keep the cake and working and middle class Americans must content themselves with crumbs

…with fewer and fewer crumbs so that the rich can get richer as they destroy the US economy.

most Americans go into an ambien-like trance when economics is discussed

I really think putting it in a moral frame, as Lakehoff suggests, will to some extent circumvent that. I do agree as many who call themselves liberal as the others have come to believe Rand’s radical individualism and economics is jut the way business is..By drawing attention to the fact that many of the notions really stem from an ethical system that denies conscience and relation, other than erotic, with others I would hope would be an entry to breaking it down.

Some kind of shining city on a hill…in some kinda promised land…kinda like in the Wizard of Oz..flying monkeys and stuff…and with only rich white people. Other people are fed crumbs like pigeons in the park and are slaves.

Cantor is exactly correct..it is time we get politicians who tell the truth and are willing to do the right thing..

We must thank Peter Peterson and his poodle, Obama. Otherwise, Social Security would not be targeted by the Chicago Disaster Capitalists. Only a quisling President would support the theft of Social Security by Peterson and his mob. Only a quisling “Democrat President” would betray every other Democrat in order to destroy the “jewel in the crown” of the New Deal.

A “Democratic” President would defend and protect Social Security. After 10 years of disaster capitalism Social Security must be protected more than ever.

The current Republican Neo-con Quisling President, is an embarrassing disgrace, as he does have a serious crush on Ronbo Reagan. There is something seriously wrong with that love match.

Great catch, BT.

Fascinating that the oh-so-polite NPR reporter and anchor didn’t mention this: Cantor is a Social Security eliminationist, and he said so right there.

Have you considered immigrating to Somalia?

Social Security is the perfect issue for the Dems to win. Dems should make SS their 9-11. Noun + Verb + Social Security. The Republicans want to eliminate Social Security. The government shutdown was caused by the Republicans wanting to eliminate Social Security.

I have an easy answer for Canter, Cut Congress’s salary by 50% until the unemployment rate is below 5%.

Canter reminds me of a joke. Two megamillionaire wives were talking at the turn of the century. One wife said that they were having dinner with a congressman that evening. The other wife said, ” I do not have dinner with my hired servents. Neither should you.”

The Ds want to get rid of SS too, and blame it on the Rs, which is why it’ll prolly be a done deal before 2012 election.

Cantor reminds you of a joke? They thought a mustached “corporal” in Germany was also a joke. Never think of enemies of the people as a “joke.” In a country were most of the public is kept in a perpetual state of infantalism a “joke” is no laughing matter.

Way, OT, but meltdown in progress at Unit 2 Fukushima Daiichi.

Reactor core and containment vessel have been breached, fissile material is currently on the floor of the reactor building.

Link.

How is he correct? If Social Security is paid for entirely by taxpayer contributions, what’s wrong with that?

You make some very good points for challening the so-called “Rand” theory of economics, which is really, at the end of the day, a gross fiction. Ayn Rand, herself, didn’t hesitate to collect Soc Sec & Medicare and I doubt that she had paid much, if anything into either system (unlike me; I’ve been paying into both for many many years & *deserve* to get at least my money back with interest, which imo is very John Galtian):

http://www.alternet.org/teaparty/149721/ayn_rand_railed_against_government_benefits,_but_grabbed_social_security_and_medicare_when_she_needed_them/

The whole “Rand” argument is silly, at best, and load of horse manure at worst (to put it politely). It doesn’t pass the smell test.

Make people who make over $250,000 ineligible for SS starting right now, and cut ALL Elected Officials’ salaries by 75% now, and also ALL paid benefits to elected and appointed officials..both Federal and State…and ban ALL corporate donations to ALL elected or appointed “officials”.

EEEEK! uh-oh

Maybe this whole discussion about collecting Soc Sec is moot?? Not snark (just a tad freaked out).

Or pets…

Agree with cutting elected officials salaries. However, even most of the better off have contributed to Soc Sec & Medicare and deserve to collect.

IMO, just raise the cap on the Soc Sec deduction from wages and Poof! No problem (not that there is a “big” problem right now; this is just ginned up crap, imo).

Guess we know what you want America to be…

You left wingers killed SS. Far too many people receiving more money from SS that neither they or deceased spouse ever paid. Not to mention all of the illegal aliens receiving benefits.

Nothing is for free. Everything has a cost. It is laughable that the “educated” left wing does not have a God D*amn clue when it comes to economics.

I for one am planning my retirement based on SS not being there. I am saving now. May not be a lot, but it is something. The last thing I am going to do is depend on the government.

You forget his MILITARY PENSION

We’ll see. Experts at the oil drum are treating this new info like it’s old news.

I’m no expert, so I don’t know how this changes the situation. What I do know is super-heated material on the floor is interacting with water from the cooling efforts. This could cause a second hydrogen explosion, scattering the material.

Yeah, why would you expect the government to pay you back what you paid in with the explicit understanding that it would be given back to you?

That’s just stupid. Our educations are going to waste.

Please, enlighten us on economics, and how things must be paid for, while we spend $550 million in Libya and give GE a $3 billion tax refund?

Oh, and Wall Street gets $13 trillion for destroying the economic stability of the entire globe?

Please, tell us all about things being paid for.

Bet you can’t save enough money. Eventually, either low interest rates, bad market, or inflation is going to EAT YOU ALIVE. Not to even mention the cost of health care and what the cuts to Medicade that the Republicans are going to make will do to your little nest egg.

Hm. There’s that, too. Kinda like what happened to all those people and pension funds that got buggered in 2008.

I can’t opt out..that’s one thing that is wrong with it..The other thing is that it has been expanded too much..It was never meant to be a retirement fund..just a little help..now it has been expanded such that people view it as their retirement fund..it covers disabilities..which can include everything from a sore back to a painful hangnail..It has become an entitlement..welfare..And the time has come to de-fund entitlements..to get back to basics of individual freedom and responsibility

Perhaps it is time to get rid of the retirement fantasy

The right wing not only doesn’t understand economics it doesn’t practice economics. Instead it is attempting to impose its perverted moral view on the world. ie Pamper the rich. Punish the poor.

.It was never meant to be a retirement fund

Yet, when so many businesses are no longer providing any type of defined benefit plan and so many folks like you want to see public sector employees lose any idea of a defined benefit plan, when people who may at one time have had a 401k or IRA watched them drain down the toilet when the economy melted down or ahve had to use them to survive these last few years to keep a roof over their heads, what would you have people do?

For myself, I’m trying to hold on to the point where I can claim early Social Security at a rate of all of $1,323 per month.

Yeah, that’s really spreading it far, isn’t it?

Are you sure you’re paid enough for all the work you do to spout the MOTU’s favorite narratives?

If he’s saying there should be means testing, I agree.

You left wingers killed SS.

Why are you blaming this on “leftwingers”?

IF your unattributed assertions (links, please) are “true,” which I argue that they’re not, then WHY is it *the fault” of leftwingers? I’d really love to know the answer to that.

Nice way to swing by and victimize yourself whilst abdicating any and all responsibility for your perception of the “problem.”

Get a clue.

I’ve been saving, myself, for years and years and years… does that now somehow make me a “righwinger”??? I’m serious: would love an answer to that question.

Your unattributed assertions, per usual, make out that every single leftwinger is some kind of welfare-cheating slacker who never ever works and solely and only out for themselves. I think that description more aptly applies to the uber-wealthy Elites in this nation, frankly.

Will be interested to see if you can be bothered to give me a serious answer to my questions, which I ask in all seriousness. Inquiring minds would love to know….

I would agree with you entirely if people were present with affordable opportunities to better their situation. College is unaffordable for most people now, and wages are declining. People can’t afford to be responsible for themselves in some cases.

This is certainly shitty, I know. But it’s true. So now we’re left with the question of what to do. Cut social security and let them starve? Increase the homeless population astronomically? Kill them off? Ship them somewhere else? Put them in a debtors prison?

What happens to all the people you suggest “cutting off”?

What job do you have, and when do you plan to stop working and for what reason will you stop working?

..to get back to basics of individual freedom and responsibility

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!

So, can you link me to all of your posts demanding responsibility for those that nearly brought down the entire global economy?

And also, too, while you’re at it, links to your posts demanding responsibility for those guilty of mortgage fraud, including those doing the robo signings of fraudulent court documents?

And in case you were forgetting, ALL INDIVIDUALS in a civilized society have some RESPONSIBLITY to the overall general welfare of that society.

Because, without those links, I’m afraid some may think your spouting on and on about RESPONSIBILITY is just BULLSHIT.

That professional sock puppet (or whateve they’re called when they’re paid to swing by and poop out junk like that) have no real answers to questions like that. But my bet is that they could *care less* what happens to citizens… let them all die in the streets and ship them off to a ditch seems to be the mantra anymore.

Eh? These prof bloggers paid to say junk like that mean that responsibility is only for the “small poor people.”

The insanely wealthy, the mega-corporations, and politions never any responsibility for anything ever. Period. The end.

These conservabloggers may be in for a very very rude awakening when they realize that their super-wealthy “pals” could give a sh*t about piffling “hired help” like them.

And the time has come to de-fund entitlements..to get back to basics of individual freedom and responsibility.

Yes, let’s go back to the 19th century.

But you realize: that means no Pentagon, no standing army, no Air Force, no overseas bases, all of it goes away.

I used to think that the most valuable thing we had was the first amendment. Now I am convinced it is the second amendment.

These self-sufficient Randians really need to move to Somalia, and then report back on their findings… IF they’re able to find some means of reporting (or survive to do the reporting). Gets pretty tiresome to read their fantasy-fiction every day.

It’s amazing to me that you assume, arbitrairily, that I am paid..I guess it is rare that you are confronted with a differing viewpoint..Well, I am not paid.

Yep, and the funny part is that in the real libertarian world, the ONLY survivors are the ones that band together and form a GASP! community. Loners are picked off one by one in such a world and the only way to survive is by working together.

You’re right, it would be a good experience for them.

I’ll chip in for plane tickets!!!

I don’t think you’re paid.

No one in their right mind would pay for such nonsense.

none of your business

Ooh! Sensitive! Could it be that your employer might not look too kindly on you wasting their resources trolling your views during work hours?

So, can you link me to all of your posts demanding responsibility for those that nearly brought down the entire global economy?

That’s easy. That was the fault of brown people in Florida and Arizona who bought houses they couldn’t afford.

Listen, we’re going to have to come to grips with the fact that these programs cannot exist if we want America to be what we want America to be.”

My response:

1)Eric…I want America to be rid of jack asses like you! Take our money and steal it for your rich masters screw you

2) Eric…I want an America where morons like you are held accountable for stupid statements like the one you made on NPR…did you attend school?…don’t you know how to speak English? Hey where YOU born?

3) Eric…wnat nerve! Going on NPR after you and party voted to cut their funds…

4) screw you and your damn party keep you hands off our money oh btw even GOP voters don’t want SS cut you pig

Wait, you want to denounce social security and all social safety nets, and talk about abolishing programs that directly assist people here, but you won’t talk about your personal income?

In short, you’re saying – “you’ve showed me yours and I jacked off on it, but you can’t see mine”.

I think the “genius” of the modern conservative movement was in its ability to marry two groups that previously had nothing but utter contempt for one another: economic and social conservatives.

Part of that comes from years of successfully reframing class in terms of demonization and racializing the poor (and more recently the middle class).

Think: Jesus Christ as John Galt.

But is OFG! Just Bullshit!! They think are above the rest of us and that the price of being a Citizen of the US is beneath them and shouldn’t have to pay a dime towards the upkeep and betterment of our Country.. The Old “I got Mine and Fuck you if you don’t”.♠

Supply-side Jesus.

I really am not so afraid here. When Cantor et al get their way, and that being that SS taxes are still collected but funneled straight into the general account thus paving the way for even more tax breaks for the top 2%, that people will finally have had enough. Even the loudest “class warfare” cries will fall on deaf ears. Rush Limbaugh won’t be able to hold back the rage by scapegoating some other minority group. The vast majority of this country is against any changes to SS that reduce benefits. I sure would like for the repugs to make this a campaign platform.

KKKorporate KKKristianity!

Oh! My apologies for using “genius” as a descriptor for anything wingnuttery

Hey, my name is Kristian. I resent that use of it. /s

Why do you think “the Dems don’t make the connection.” I think the Dems do.

Some of the people who vote for these sociopaths think the cuts are about programs for other people. Like the WI state worker who was quoted on DKos saying she voted for Walker but she never imagined……….. She never imagined he meant her. Honey, who did you think he meant?

I don’t think Dems capitalize on it enough or effectively (when they try). for example, right after the financial meltdown of 2008, there was a huge fracture within the rightwing: all that free market mumbo jumbo was shown to be a huge failure. Obama definitely didn’t capitalize on the resulting cognitive dissonance (other than to get elected). The resulting void was picked up by the right, who have now actually revived the “free market” zombies.

the right (I should say far right) is right now saying basically the same thing they’ve been saying for the last 30-40 years which is remarkable, considering the utter failure of their policies.

OK… I’m getting a headache! LOL

KrisAinCA @ 80 said,
“In response to alamode @ 72 (show text)
How is he correct? If Social Security is paid for entirely by taxpayer contributions, what’s wrong with that?”

Social Security is an INSURENCE program. We need to address it as such, otherwise the MOTU will win the day by simply refering to it as an entitlment.

It is called, “Social Security Insurence.”

Well, I am not paid.

So you’ve just taken it upon yourself to troll around progressive blogs and represent a viewpoint that runs counter to the interests of the common good and the vast majority of Americans?

alamode @ 93

It is called Social Security Insurence.

FDL, this is what I have been harping about. alamode calls it an entitlement program, by not using its correct name. We lose by that default.

Sorry, I meant alamode at 93

the right (I should say far right) is right now saying basically the same thing they’ve been saying for the last 30-40 years which is remarkable, considering the utter failure of their policies.

That is because the right wing “economics” model is nothing more than a system of perverse morality, a religion, if you will. Social connection is evil. Those who dominate are to be worshiped. Those who work for those who dominate are a lesser breed “untermenschen”? and are to be shamed and punished. Like all religions or “belief systems” one is expected to ignore and deny emotions and perceptions that diverge from the core belief. In this case the unable or less able are demons.

I don’t think I could stand to read Rand. I’ll be glad to take your word for it! :-)

Seriously, they can’t all be rich? What do they tell themselves when they are holy and they still don’t have a pot to piss in?

I only asked you what you did and when you plan to stop working and for what reason bc YOU stated @94:

Perhaps it is time to get rid of the retirement fantasy

I don’t want to know your actual day job, but I’d be interested to know that type of industry in which you work, WHEN you plan to stop working and for WHAT reason… since you believe retirement is a fantasy.

Do your parents and grandparents also think retirement is a “fantasy”?? Did they work until they died??

Beats the heck out of me, but I would guess that MOST of ‘em live in serious denial of their reality. Certainly by reading what’s posted here quite regularly by a slew of conservatives, it’s clear that most of ‘em don’t deal in FACTs.

I also can no longer stand to read Rand raw. It is appalling. But I was enthralled with the whole thing until about thirty years ago when I got well.

I am currently reading Jennifer Burns biography, Ayn Rand Goddess of the Market. Though the biographer seems a bit friendly and also I suspect is projecting back some of her own prejudices, it along with my memories, is filling in a lot of understanding for me. This in particular in regard to the appropriateness of Lakehoff’s stressing that our liberal opposition must include a moral frame..

I get entirely what your stating, which is factual. Soc Sec is an Insurance program which YOU and I pay into all of our lives. It is NOT an entitlement program. Conservatives are taught by RushGlenn to call it an “entitlement” in order to soften them up to accept their own Soc Sec monies to be ripped off by the Elites.

Note that throughout the conservabloggers commentary today runs these themes: 1) Soc Sec is an “entitlement,” not insurance, b) Soc Sec was screwed up by slacker leftwingers who use it for disability constantly like for when we have a “hangnail” (links???), c) people who draw from Soc Sec are not being “responsible,” d) people who draw from Soc Sec didn’t “save enough money,” e) it’s really quite dandy, in fact laudable, for Cantor to demonstrate “true responsibility” by ripping off Soc Sec that we’ve all paid into, and f) if you’re truly “responsible” you won’t take Soc Sec (I guess it’s some kind of sin or blight to take it).

As I’ve stated, conservatives are being softened up to NOT protest being abjecting ripped off by Elites who ROB us of the money that WE paid into Soc Sec. Mark my words.

I guess it is rare that you are confronted with a differing viewpoint

It’s amazing to me that you assume that I am not “confronted” with differing viewpoints. In fact, I’m “confronted” with differing viewpoints – across a broad spectrum – daily.

When Cantor et al get their way, and that being that SS taxes are still collected but funneled straight into the general account thus paving the way for even more tax breaks for the top 2%, that people will finally have had enough.

1. It’s hard to put the Genie back into the bottle. Once the Elites start ripping off YOUR Soc Sec Insurance – which YOU and I have been paying into for years and years – it will be next to impossible to get it back and/or to get the Elitist rip off of YOUR and MY money stopped.

2. Never ever COUNT on conservatives to “come to their senses” and/or to “wake up” and start protesting how they’re being raped, robbed & pillaged by the Elites. No way it’ll happen. They’ll roll and ask if they should give their Elitist Masters even more of OUR (eg, the “small people”) hard-earned money.

3. At the same time, conservatives will be 110% behind giving Elitists even MORE tax cuts, tax breaks and tax incentives, bc conservatives will totally believe that ONLY rich people are “responsible.”

Count on it.

Points 1,2,3. Bingo!

What bullshit. Raise the payroll tax on incomes over $106,000. Problem solved. The term ‘entitlement’ makes it sound like some sort of gift, that people are getting something for nothing. They’ve paid in to Social Security their entire working lives. The exception is those who were born disabled or became disabled before they earned enough credits to qualify. They receive SSDI. I have no problem with that.
When oil and corporate farming subsidies end, when hedge fund manager tax exemption ends, when GE and their ilk start paying their fair share for taxes, and a whole host of other things happen first, then we can talk seriously about so-called ‘entitlements’.

Yes even in the wild west, most people banded together to survive, even if only for temp periods. That’s why Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid hung out together.

It is a form of insanity to believe in the fictional world Ayn Rand created, as it is crazy to believe implicitly in any fiction.

Alamode is motivated either by self-interest or stupidity. I think we should be commended for giving alamode the benefit of the doubt.

Not sure why alamode won’t just disclose his or her self-interest, i.e. alamode’s being paid to troll around websites like this one. Maybe alamode’s ashamed to be getting paid to do what he or she does at FDL. Ashamed or not, it should be disclosed.

I believe the Dems are as (in)effective as they want to be on the social spending issues.

Here, here!

I duly note that alamode resists answering some pretty simple questions. I also duly not that most (but not all) of the conservatives/libertarians who swing by in scatter-shot approach to dish out their fantastic (as in: fantasy) viewpoints also resist answering very basic questions.

It’s all about hurling out unattributed assertions or some rather obvious RushGlenn rightwing talking point or some equally absurdist Randian libertarian fantasy of living some sort of fictional life of complete “self reliance.” It’s all quite nonsensical. There’s very very few people out there living with a knife and a blanket to survive, and frankly, that’s really what we’re talking about if you’re going to be totally self-reliant.

And finally I get back to: I frickin’ PAID INTO Soc Sec all my g-d*mned life and I want MY money that I DESERVE. It’s not a frickin’ “entitlement” that I’m some sort of lazy slacker or sinner for “getting.”

If these conservatives don’t want what THEY contributed to Soc Sec: FINE. Don’t take it, then. That leaves more for the rest of us very hard workers who’ve made big contributions to this insurance fund over the course of our lives. I don’t the likes of creepy weird Eric Cantor getting his greedy greasy crummy theiving mitts on it, thanks very much!

I am off today..again, liberal assumptions

Wow! That’s some semi-serious stereotyping ya got going on there. Any time anyone questions you, it’s a “liberal assumption” Paranoid much?

Why didn’t you answer my very basic questions? I wasn’t making any “assumptions” – liberal or otherwise:

1. What industry do you work in?
2. When do you plan to stop working?
3. For what reason will you stop working?
4. Did your parents retire?
5. Did your grandparents retire?
6. Did your parents think that retirement is a “fantasy”??

Inquiring minds would truly like to know your answers.

No it’s just the usual rightwing talking point. When painted into the corner, then just point a finger and whiiiiiine about “liberals.”

Guess alamode just isn’t “confronted” with differing viewpoints very often….

We should also note the Democrats’ role in all this.

A few months ago, they participated in extending the Bush tax cuts for the super-rich. Now they’re talking about the possibility of cutting programs that work well for hundreds of millions of Americans in order to pay for those tax cuts.

Democrats suck. Weaklings, enablers, sellouts.

It’s also hardly a “liberal assumption” to state categorically that most/all of us have PAID into the Social Security Insurance program for most/all of our working lives. And like any other defined benefit plan, we deserve to get our money BACK.

If conservatives are so incredibly concerned about the deficit and the state of the nation, how about holding the Military Industrial Complex’s feet to the fire and *demand* that they start being RESPONSIBLE and get out of the business of starting very very expensive Wars for BigOIL???!!!

IMO there is NO difference between today’s so-called “Democrats” and Republicans. They are merely two branches of the Corporatists one-party system. I have *no expectation* of Dems doing one d*mned thing to “save” Soc Sec. They are working hand-in-glove with Pete Peterson & the CatFood Commission to rip off the “small people’s” savings… yet again!

Not a liberal assumption, unless only liberals have common sense.

I’ll reproduce part of my comment @ 142, as it seems you missed it:

Alamode is motivated either by self-interest or stupidity. I think we should be commended for giving alamode the benefit of the doubt.

I am off today..

WTF???

OFF??? OFF???

Are you kidding me???

There are no OFF days, the only reason we have any OFF days is because labor and unions fought for them. WTF??? You’re the one that said you wanted to go back to the way things were supposed to be. Well guess what, those good old days meant 12-16 hour workdays, 7 DAYS A WEEK.

You want a world with no unions, no liberals, then LIVE IT. NO DAYS OFF.

Otherwise, you know, some may think you’re a hypocrite.

You’re singing to the choir (AFAIC).

I get the mess, I’m just referring to how they get their MESSage across.

He’s prolly getting around a gub’mint-financed scooter.

When they STEAL our social security, insure habeas corpus is gone forever, check our mail, photo graph us naked at airports and leave us broke and without means upon the age of 65 tell me again why we pay taxes to a government that exists no more and has so failed to meet its promises?
Why indeed do we remain here?
Where can we find refuge??

The democrats have lost sight of their own principles.
The GOP has gone mad with greed.
The Supreme court has been bought by corporate lobby groups.
The media cares ONLY for corporate profits and no longer can be trusted to act as journalists.

NO ONE REPRESENTS WE THE PEOPLE

I know. And I understand you/we see the evil too painfully and are looking for solutions, not repetitive descriptions.

For me in my adolescence they got the message across by presenting belief as reason. My guess is that is also the case with Greenspan, Cantor, the MOTU and all those who aspire to be “elites.”

” … these programs cannot exist if we want America to be what we want America to be”.

If we can’t steal money from Social Security, to pay for cuts for Wall Street investors through lower taxes on capital gains and dividends and to provide income tax relief to the top 2% of taxpayers and end the onerous inheritance tax on the ultra wealthy … Then America won’t be what we want it to be!

Of course they want to kill Social Security. As long as any successful social program still exists, its very existence undercuts the conservative mantra that “the government is incapable of running anything effectively.”

Oh, it’s been brought up, again and again.
The MOTU don’t want to hear it at all, because it doesn’t give them more money and power.

I’d like to see Congressional pensions run by the same rules as SS. I’d also like to see the rules for SS revised so you don’t pay on the first $20,000 of your income, ever (because that’s low income), but after that you pay on your entire income, whatever it might be.

Enough of that ‘we’ shit, Erk, speak for yourself.

Asshole.

Maybe I’m entirely naive, but I don’t think there’s an ice cube’s chance in h_ll that Social Security is going to disappear. Even those everyday Americans who are far-right-wing Republicans (I’m not talking about members of Congress) don’t want to see their government-run “nest egg” go the way of the tse-tse fly. For the overwhelming number of Americans, Social Security is all they have as they enter their retirement years. Most people simply make enough money to get them from paycheck to paycheck. Most of these same people don’t have any pensions, 401(k)s, or IRAs.

In my opinion, this “talk” by Eric Cantor is just more scare-tactic rhetoric spewed out from on-high to try and scare Congressional Democrats into doing what Cantor and the rest of his goons want them to do with regard to the budget and expenditures.

Furthermore, I totally disagree with the assessment made by Harry Reid: “Back off Social Security. It’s in great shape for the next many decades. Let’s worry about Social Security when it’s a problem. Today, it’s not a problem.” First of all, oh yes it is a problem. It sure is a problem. Harry Reid’s assessment is simply not correct. As the narrator of this story said: “…last year [2010], the [Social Security] program paid out more than it took in.” Secondly, Reid is taking a position that is ENTIRELY descriptive of the reason that we have so many problems in America. We WAIT until Johnny is killed in the crosswalk BEFORE we install the red light. That’s like saying, “Let’s wait until all of the countries of the world stop sending oil to the USA. That’s when we’ll look at alternative forms of energy.” I like Harry Reid, but he’s dead wrong on this one.