Edwin Starr – War (What Is It Good For?)
What’s on your mind tonite…?
Hey, CT, hope you are dry in paradise. Raining madly in southern CA. And war…..yeah, absolutely nothing. ‘Cept if you are a mercenary or a military industry.
Aloha, Dearie…! I thought it never rains… ;-)
Hey folks! Raining like a son of’a bitch here. Good news, snow is all gone! The Super Moon was lovely last night. And my cough is still making my ribs hurt. Fuck.
Aloha, newt…! Soggy up north too…?
Aloha, CE…! If it’s any consolation to ya’ll, it’s soggy here…! ;-)
Yeah, we’re getting drenched, all weekend. It’s great.
Oh my friend, I’ll take snow over muddy mush any season.
I do hope you’re doing something for your cough, homeopathic or OTC…! *g*
What’s on your mind tonite…?
say it again…
Another week dawning. What will it bring? Things seem to be spiraling out of control on our little ball of water and air. Yet the sun rises every day. I don’t believe in much, but I believe in sunrise. Spring is arriving here in the northern hemisphere. Life carries on despite our best efforts to turn the Earth into a sterile rock.
A tree is a Buddah. And so am I.
Netti pot is great. The bitch is that I’m trying to finish two root canals, and need to have a plastic dental dam in my mouth for hours. Sucks that I can’t breathe.
Namaste, 4cdave…! *g*
I’ve got some preliminary photos of the anniversary of the invasion of Iraq up and will get the rest of them and Sunday’s pro-Bradley Manning protest at Quantico, VA. Manning’s friend David says that Mannings’ eyes light up when he hears about actions like ours today because that tells him he’s not going through what he’s going trough alone.
*ouch* That bites…! ;-)
Best wishes for a speedy recovery…!
I feel better already tonight.
Aloha, rich, and, much mahalo for all your efforts…!
Madison - More rioting today
Drive by hello Pups Do check out the linky..
Niters.. Long day and Da bed is calling…
And yeah War is good for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!
Suzanne or one of the late night crew said to alert her when I put this post up. It even relates to the topic directly :)
also, as a kind of antidote to war, the videomusic wunderkind kutiman has a new offering for the world here
~~~first link repaired~~~
Mama told me not to come…
Randy Newman is an American treasure, but I heard Eli’s Coming (3dognight) the other night and it blew me away, we had that on a 45 when I was a kid…
*heh* Awesome pics, nahant…! Mahalo…! ;-)
What’s going on?
Great diary, ks…! Aloha…!
O invisible hand o’the Mod, thank you
Aloha, Mr Why…!
I Feel The Earth Move…
Shaking all over.
People Got To Be Free… ;-)
Grand Marnier comin’ your way, Christine …
This is probably a minority opinion here, but war is good for absolutely everything when the alternatives are worse.
Wars are very often unjust one one side and just on the other. Should we not have fought WWII and let the Third Reich be the Thousand Year Reich? Or let slavery continue?
War is what gave us the concept of the nation. That’s why nations exist, to fight wars. All the other stuff they do is incidental.
Wars don’t solve problems? Tell that to Israel. (I do not intend for that to justify their continuing oppression of the previous tenants.)
As long as there are assholes in power, there will be the need for war.
However, wars for corporate profit and greed truly are monstrous. I could almost make a generalization that limited wars are more immoral than total wars.
I trust this forum will let me know if I am wrong in that.
Petro…! It’s been awhile…! *g*
How’s Toronto tonite…!
evening, CT, firegods
Ain’t gonna eat out my heart anymore.
We’ve been enjoying really nice weather throughout Spring Break, but Winter is paying another visit this week.
War is good for showing Hockey Players they’re not the only Goons in town … *g*
Aloha, strato…! I agree that there is a defensive need for a Standing Army, but, that’s about as far as I’ll go along those lines…! Btw, I also wore BDUs in defense of the US for twenty years…!
hiya CE – how’s everything out east tonight?
*waves to newt*
I noticed Harper ponied up some Jet fighters for Libya…!
eerie! I had no idea!
How about the case of defense of others? If that is justifiable, then there is a need to be able to project power offshore.
BTW, i also spent my 6 years in the USAF, mostly as a F$ Phantom crew chief.
Harper is milking this for all it’s worth … making the spineless Libruls appear even weaker than they already are.
LOL … don’t start that again …
*heh* The F-5 is proof postive that even a brick can fly if ya put a big enough engine on it…! ;-)
Hard Headed Woman
So they’re still in disarray…? Ya’ll looking at another Harper term…?
Can’t leave it like that.
Sadly, yes … unless the Libruls & NDP form a coalition.
Iggy is a study in underachievement …
Jesus Christ, I hope not! Unfortunately, our options are very limited.
Sorta like the Toronto Maple Leafs. ;-)
*heh* Here’s some positive thoughts…
The Leafs are dreadful in the “championship” realm but geniuses in the “profit” game. Iggy is a dud in both.
Or worse, my Oilers…! ;-)
Off topic. Is it justifiable to hope for the defeat of your own nation’s military, if your nation is engaged in an unjust war? Should citizens even be allowed to contemplate such a question?
I believe in service to a nation and a people. As long as “others” wish to do harm to same, then the nation and the people must be able to defend themselves. I do not believe in wars of aggression that are generally waged for purposes of greed. The current situation in Libya is a worthy cause – Gadhaffi was very much planning to annihilate the Libyans that want him gone from power using all the military tools in his shed. I think it is correct to defend those people from that fate – the world stood by and watched other “genocides” and continue to make excuses to this day. I do understand the risks and still think the decision was correct. Gadhaffi was losing until he realized he would have to use his military and mercenaries. If the playing field is made to be level, then the Libyans can fight it out, which seems to be what the rebellion forces have and are saying. Gadhaffi is using the Libyan teevee to propagandize his force – against the Crusaders. Don’t think that’s going to fly this time. And he is using human shields – so there has been collateral damage, something that all of the UN partners were so hoping to avoid. I believe the Arab League has also said something about the civilian deaths that occurred while the no-fly zone was set up – I hope they come to understand that Gadhaffi made his maneuvers to bring about those deaths and act accordingly toward this horrible despotic evil dictator, who may be an Arab, but is one of the worst of the worst.
Aloha Tuttle! :kissandwave: Hello All! It appears that many of us are getting rained or snowed on this weekend. That would include me in Reno.
You Can’t Win
That was actually a typo on my part. I meant to type F4 but stayed on the shift key to long.
However, i like the F$ as a generic.
And yes, the F-4 is truly a brick with engines. And how rightly is the C-130 known as 20,000 loose rivets flying in close formation.
And I’ve always wondered about the F-111 with its cockpit escape module. What if the thing you’re trying to get away from is a cockpit fire?
Liked your post and saw the other links. Kutiman rules! Are the photos with the cute kids from Wisconsin? Why yes!!
Please forgive me for jumping in and answering your questions: Hell, yes; and: Screw “allow”.
But then, Arthur Silber says it better than I ever could at http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/
Off topic is the topic of LLN, VMT…! Personally, I don’t wish ill will for the Boyz, but, I do blame the Politicos and the Brass that put them in harm’s way…!
Anyone else have the sick feeling that the entire thing in libya is just an excuse to fragment libya, steal their oil and make the oligarchy more powerful?
Khadaffi might have been a prick but didn’t he use the oil money to build a lot of stuff over there?
I’ve got the sick feeling that we had a choice of letting a monster stay in power, kill a few people (terrible) and use the oil money on building the country up or killing the monster to steal the oil, start a perma civil war afghan style between the different factions playing them off against each other to use the atrocities as a cover to occupy it, steal the oil to make 3 or 4 billionaires richer and richer.
I’ve got a feeling the path we’re on will get rid of khadaffi but in the end there will be a lot more bloodshed from civil strife and “peacekeeping” while their treasuries looted and the oils stolen.
It’s black and grey morality. Not invading leads to civilian suffering and dying (terrible) but invading will lead to a civil war and a national plundering (A MILLION TIMES WORSE!)
America doesn’t give a shit about the libyan people. Worse happens in palestine, worse is happening in bahrain…hell the bahrain protestors weren’t even armed.
Bad bad bad feelings about this.
I only ask because I struggle with that question and I never know how to answer it. Sure I support the troops, but can I do that and not support the policy at the same time? I dunno.
Aloha, Pel…! Always a pleasure to see ya…!
Or maybe this guy:
“When men hire themselves out to shoot other men to order, asking nothing about the justice of their cause, I don’t care if they are shot themselves.” —Herbert Spencer
The Pocklington Curse lives on …
The cynical part asks whether we are losing or winning this hypothetical (?) war, because we all know who writes the history.
I think that it is moral to hope for a loss. As part of that, one should also hope the powers that be recognize the futility and the negative cost-benefit ratio as early as possible.
*heh* I’ll have to remember that Hercules one…! *gah* I’ve flown way too many miles in those lumbering planes…! 8-(
Aloha, mojada…! I really loved your comment ya left on my last diary…! *g*
Aloha, what…! Libya will fracture, Ghaddafi’s iron fist was the only thing that keep it together for so long…!
I’m not referring to any particular war. I’m asking the question disentangled from any war. Are we straitjacketed into always calling for victory when our own troops are on the line? By the same token, at what point does the soldier refuse to fire at his own countrymen and women?
Aloha, mz…! Didn’t see ya come in at first… Is it soggy in your neck of the woods…?
I hear that. I don’t have much compassion for the sociopath.
Posse Commitatus prevents that very scenario from playing out… Or supposed to…!
This could go on forever. This RT tune seems apropos for saying good night.
Jerusalem on the Jukebox
Well yea but the question is would a khadaffi style government be better or worse than a never ending civil war where all the moneys taken out of the country by corporate sharks.
Either the moneys spent on the cities to build them or its put in a swiss bank account never to be seen again while one half of libya endlessly fights the other half.
It’s a faustian bargain. Either we have some death some corruption and some atrocity or a LOT more death a LOT more corruption and a neverending atrocity.
I’ve got the sick feeling that we might go in and make things even WORSE for the people there.
Sorry but the realization of what might happen has me a little neurotic.
awshucksthanx, CT; you do some very good work, always enjoy your writing.
G’nite CT & Firegods !
have you seen the king’s speech yet, CT?
There’s no Posse Commitatus in the foxhole.
Pleasant Dreams, MrWhy…!
Thank you for asking, CTuttle. No sun today. Rainy.
The pups done good at Quantico today!
Okay, I better run. Have fun Firedogs.
There is absolute clarity on that question. The soldier ALWAYS refuses to fire on his own countrymen. That is not the purpose for the army. Cops may, under appropriate restrictions, but the only target for the military is another military.
For that reason, I have to give large props to the Egyptian army. They understand that they may not be turned against their own selves. They are the servant and protector of their people and should never become the tool of the oppressors.
The army knows no restraint. They only know to accomplish the mission at whatever cost, and better if the enemy pays that cost. The only hope of morality is when they are fighting other professionals. Otherwise, it is simply murder.
Fratricide is not a good thing whatsoever…! I still want real answers into Tillman’s death, three shots grouped together on one’s forehead isn’t an accident…! 8-(
I’ve written a lot about each of the conflicts ongoing in North Africa and the Middle East since the beginning of the year, but hardly anything about Libya. Initially, like a lot of us, I was quite excited, because I thought Qaddafi was too shrewd an autocrat to let it start. Just keeping my fingers crossed at this point.
He was sort of a John the Baptist to Bradley Manning, in a slight way.
Good night all.
See you later Tuttle. Take good care.
Doremus had popped in later and called me an Anti-Semite…! *gah*
ALWAYS? I don’t know about that. Theory versus practice doesn’t amount to much when a soldier’s salary is raised 300%. And the sinister thing in the US is that private armies are becoming the norm, well, at least until automated machine armies become operational.
Aloha, ET…! I guess in a way…! How’s Wasilla tonite…?
Saw that. :( Some just will not see and will choose to not understand. They spend a lot of time with their fingers in their ears and singing la la la la . Sad.
Sweet Dreams, Pellora…! *g*
I had to go away, but,
I’m sorry, I mistook the blackwater mercenaries for automated weapon carrying killbots.
I hear you. I still want answers in the anthrax letters, but I’m not holding my breath. The only distinct trend I see in the US is the move toward closing down the flow of information.
Congrats on the century mark…! Blackwater/Xe is a different breed, they only look for the bloodthirsty killbots…! 8-(
I still hold out the hope that they might actually be able to make moral decisions regardless of how well paid they are. I guess the notion of eternal damnation still has its uses.
Nice day – in the low 40s and sunny. My greenhouse got up to 85 degrees this afternoon. Sat in it in a t-shirt and shorts and floppies.
I do like Dante’s rings theory…! ;-)
*heh* Just like a Scandinavian Sauna, eh…? Complete with snowbanks to roll in after-wards…! ;-)
Oh – and finished my own new orchestration of Shostakovich’s 2nd Waltz from his 2nd jazz suite.
Yes. Always. Salary doesn’t matter. The army is of the people and cannot poison their own well.
If the army is part of the government, and we, the people, are the government, for the army to turn against the population would be akin to an auto-immune disease.
Blackwater is a private mercenary organization, no different from any other security firm. They have so grossly misbehaved as a result of (deliberately?) unclear lines of responsibility that they should be broken up and a RICO investigation started against their leadership. They are a disgrace to what is inherently a noble profession.
Naw. I threw a tennis ball for Strider. Four times. He’s almost completely recovered from his leg tumor event/surgery. Good, good dog.
Ok, I’ll compromise.
They’ll just murder, rape and otherwise brutalize non whites/people dumb enough to tell a blackwater death squad member that they aren’t radical right evangelicals.
We Don’t Need No American East India Company, and No I Got Mine, Jack Company, either
Salary doesn’t matter? It seemed to make all the difference to the wealthy nobles riding as armored knights in cavalry divisions swooping down on peasants revolting against the prevailing conditions. You think things have changed?
I’d like to see Erik Prince frog marched…!
Congrats on the orchestration and great news about Strider…! ;-)
I’d like to see him water-boarded by his own employees.
WOO HOO! OK give. Where’s the music link? :-)
good god, y’all!
bring back the draft. on the double.
just like it for me to walk in right before the party bust…
Feudalism is an entirely different set of obligations from the modern nation’s army. The power of the nobles was derived from the king, who’s power was derived from God. That whole divine right thing.
The modern army derives power and authority and morality from the people themselves. Part of that contract is that the people themselves are shielded from their creation. In fact, the idea of non-combatant immunity is a major part of just war theory.
Wars are just or unjust in their inception. They can also be fought in a just manner or an unjust manner. Across the two dimensions, you can have just wars fought in a just fashion, just wars fought unjustly (see post 111 above),and unjust wars fought either justly or not. To be moral, the war must be just in both its inception and in its conduct.
One of the gravest breaches of an army’s duty is that it conducts operations without minimizing collateral damage.
I’ll Take You There…
Good to hear the strider is gettin about. The clam tides are now. But looks to be a bit windy in the morn.
Aloha, dosido…! Great to see ya at LLN…! I was surfing the YouTubes…! ;-)
I think it’s a great idea myself, for several reasons…! ;-)
Yep I wandered off too.
As I just posted (late) on Thers thread, there’s always room for Jello!
Bring back the draft? Yeah. But everybody goes this time. If not the army, then service to the community.
Major fail these days with, first our ‘Preemptive Doctrine’, and, the use of Reapers, firing hellfire missiles, while safely ensconced 7,000 miles away in New Mexico or some such…! 8-(
Well the theory sounds nice, but the fact is the civilian side (the side that hires and fires the military leadership) of the equation you are setting up is controlled by corporate money. Take a look at the financial scandal? Have you seen anybody go to jail lately? What makes you think the military isn’t also responding to money? You think people aren’t making gazillions off all of that military hardware? Indeed, what makes you think that the military leadership aren’t actually finding ways to perpetuate more wars that require more funding?
Like the Peace Corps, say to Katrina Land? to clean up oil spills? to help carry cash for the poor?
Indeed, what makes you think that the military leadership aren’t actually finding ways to perpetuate more wars that require more funding
ding ding ding, we have a winner!!!
Exactly the scenario I would like to see…! It’ll employ and train a whole bunch of our youth today…!
well I’ve said my peace for tonight. niters all.
well there is AmeriCorps but is it mostly teaching jobs?
Aloha Tut. Yeah i could see draft if every one helps more than just killing.
I also wander off. You-all put up great tunes and i can turn on and read other things then come back for more. I know i’m bad.
Germany has them work in the hospitals too…!
Just for the hell of it.
I’m glad you’re enjoying them…! ;-)
That is an entirely different set of issues.
Do I think the military leadership is capable of being corrupt and looking for a way to sweeten their golden (hehe) years. Yes.
Do they want more wars that require more funding and speed up promotion? Some do.
Are there gazillions being made off military hardware in the private sector. Yes.
And I don’t like it at all.
As far as the lack of perp walks, let me speak to that in a separate comment. I’ve been waiting to get this off my chest.
*heh* First I’ve heard of ‘em…!
How did you know i was searching for used transmissions.
My Ding-A-Ling… ;-)
Nothing I say or do, Stratocruiser, can be held against me. I’m drunk and just riffing tonight.
*heh* I won’t hold it against ya…! Riff away…! ;-)
Just for fun.
…I’ve been waiting to get this off my chest…
Fire away…! ;-)
One of my wife’s customers is married to a former Enron Exec. He is currently doing serious time. Just last week, we heard from the woman that her teenage son died from an overdose of prescription meds about a month ago. She came home and he was sitting in front of the TV.
I know the boy. He is not a druggie. I believe that he was on a prescription to deal with the depression that came as a result of a father in the big house for quite a few years. I feel sorry for the kid and for the wife. Neither of them knew or took part in the crap. I blame the husband who, if he had seen the ghost of Xmas future, would have done things differently. I mean, if he thought that getting caught would mean more than a slap on the wrist, he would have done thing differently.
Most of all, I blame the system that allowed him, and all his ilk to think they could act with impunity. Nobody commits a crime when they believe they’ll be punished.
The boy’s blood is on the hands of all those who extended that extra privilege to the tycoons.
You ever seen this German band… Boss Hoss…
Nobody commits a crime when they believe they’ll be punished.
Socrates makes a very long argument in Plato’s Republic that the just man is better off and happier in prison and under torture than the tyrant who is never punished and goes through life privileged. It’s an interesting argument. I recommend it.
I have seen them, but only because I scour the internet for things to practice my German. They are good. The best cover bands I have ever seen were in Germany. I saw an Irish folk band that was incredible and discovered that, yep, they were Germans. Here’s a good German pop tune.
How very true, first and foremost, it would deter future behavior, imagine if Hank Paulson, Jamie Dimon, etal, were frog marched, how quickly it would have an impact on Wall Street…! That is a tragic tale, strato, my sincere condolences to the wife and family…! 8-(
But then again, he thought it was a good idea to drink the hemlock.
That argument depends on the tyrant having the self-knowledge of his own depravity. Not a likely combination.
Nice theory though.
But then again, he thought it was a good idea to drink the hemlock.
In the Crito he tells you why. I recommend that dialogue also.
Well, I shall bid ya’ll a fond adieu for the evening, Mahalo for the great conversations…! *g*
Rats, you’re gonna make me read Socrates now. Just… don’t recommend Tolstoy or John Galt’s rant or Clive Cussler.
OTOH, Lee Child is OK.
That really is a tragedy. I didn’t mean to be indifferent to it. I’m just drunk and not paying attention. Sorry about that. Okay, now I’m off to bed.
:-) Plato and Aristotle are riveting, dude!
Night. Now I have to finish this inspection report I’ve been avoiding all night.
Easier than Bertrand Russell?
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