I think this is PR bullshit. Ghadafy has practically re-taken the meaningful power there, and the overwhelming use of the (mostly) loyal military is crushing the revolution.

And I think that Obama and the corporate interests with whom Ghadafy has been willing to deal, and vice-versa, are just fine with that, but they are still going to make noise and grumble some, about “helping democracy”.

Hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think I am.

Obama needs a war to call his own. He’s really getting into the republican mode of torture and murder is the only answer to any problem.

Is the rice warmonger ambassador related to another infamous rice ?

Yeah, my cynicism sees it that way where once things have already passed the point of no return, Obama acts all tough so that he can claim he tried to fight for democracy in the middle east.

I heard someone explain the military situation on Al-Jezeera yesterday. His view was that the rebels in the east need to stop fighting pitched battles for holding towns and going to a counterinsugency mode ala Afghanistan. He implied that this is far from over and that there is no turning back for anyone who defied Gaddaffi.

WTF? Just yesterday they were saying no way. Somebody musta reminded them of teh oil.

I’m with Tanbark. His reaction was my first reaction. US support of the Benghazi provisional government would simply perpetuate a civil war between the two parts of Libya that were joined to make the present state (Cyrenaica and Tripoli were historically distinct provinces under the Romans, Arabs, and Ottomans). This is just window dressing. What the government wants is to get the oil running again. Plus, they probably figure that since Quadaffi is an old man and has no obvious successor, the regime will fall on its own within a few years. So what’s the hurry? Plus, a little more time allows them to set up a puppet government in waiting.

There is a reason Libyan’s celebrate “American Evacuation Day” in June.

When I left Tripoli in 1981 the American Fleets’ jets were downing two Libyan MIGs in the Gulf of Sidra.

We should stay the hell out. Cynical ploy as usual.

Sounds too much like Iraq to me.

My guess: Gaddafi’s having his son Saif spill the beans on Libya’s (illicit?) support of Sarokzy during Sarko’s election campaign has made the US realize that Moammar’s going to be looking for revenge not only on those who’ve weakly “aided” the rebels with lip service (as has Sarko), but also on anyone who hasn’t immediately leaped to Gaddafi’s aid.

So Obama and/or H. Clinton have figured that they might as be in for a sheep as a lamb, and see if they can take out Moammar before he becomes the key hand on the Mediterranean oil spigot.

I think the model here is actually Kosovo: Lots of aerial activity but no ground troops.

Motherfuckers are so concerned about the deficit yet have no problem planning another fuckin’ war. Oh, that’s right, the working and middle classes can pay for it.

They sure as hell aren’t going to tax the rich for it. Oh and they aren’t going to stop subsidizing the oil companies who they are actually going to war for.

Thing is, Gaddafi’s not playing along with that. He’s going after people when all they’ve done is do the weak lip-service bullshit for democracy. (See also: Saif’s revealing Libya’s extensive aid to Sarkozy, in revenge for Sarko’s minor lip-flapping on the rebels’ behalf.)

O must figure that since G is a) of a mindset to extract revenge even for trivial things like Sarko’s comments, and b) will, should he defeat the rebels, be in an incredibly powerful position to wreak oil-related havoc on Europe and North America, that just sitting and hoping G spares him isn’t going to work.

You want more cynicism?
Elections turn on the economy. The economy will not tolerate both an oil shock and the Japan crisis. They can’t fix Japan. So the oil must flow. If the air space is controlled and major ground forces can be engaged from the air, they should be able to muster enough workmen to get the oil flowing again.

How about a humanitarian corridor created across the top of Libya, along the coast, which would protect pro democracy folks as they flee from this vengeful dictator?

No relation to Condoleezza, but she is the goddaughter of Madeleine Albright. Her father was a Federal Reserve Governor. Her mother works for the Brookings Institute. She is married to Ian Cameron. He was an ABC producer until he resigned the end of 2010. Cameron produced Christiane Amanpour’s ” This Week.” Rice is a Rhodes Scholar.

AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Firpup Freedom Fighters:

Go to the Security Council and request UN forces and if we don’t get ‘em declare an escalation of withdrawal of US troops from both Iraq and Afghanistan and move significant forces from each and eliminate Gaddafi and all his minions. Then pivot and support democracy movements in Bahrain, Yemen and Saudi Arabia and tell the Chinese that their contracts with the oil skeiks are null and void.

Time to end the neo-colonial structure of the entire Middle East and the African continent and put the blood of American troops behind the people for a change.

Our freinds in the Chinese military industrial complex may not like it though.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, TIME TO GET ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY!

Three weeks ago, a handful of missiles (cruise or otherwise) would have put enough holes in the airstrips to make things a little more easier for the revolt.
Unfortunately, no fly zones are defined much more comprehensively and academically, as if one were not just sabotaging a non-enemy, but were in essence trying fulfill a technical model. In a situation where air strikes in Syria and Pakistan do not require UN resolutions, a simple series of strikes of the same sort would have nudged things differently. This was obvious (though I’m not advocating what did not occur) that timing matters. Now it’s too late so what is proposed is actually an escalation of technical parameters of the so called no fly zone, turning it into no fly zone with optional bombing, which is what Saddam had to endure. Once again painted into a corner where neither option of getting involved in the fight or staying out presents a very nice choice.

The initiative should be taken by France or Italy, if the matter is of national interest/s. Or ideally by any government in the area that get US aid for strategic purposes. But unfortunately circumstances do not allow an Egypt or an Israel to use the weapons that they get in aid for purposes that are at the very least more respectable than civilian population suppression.

Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine.

I have never thought much of Obama, but I never thought of him as incompetent and I think that is clearly coming to light. He is as incompetent as Bush. We can not expect him to do the right thing or to figure out what they right thing is. He is not even serving his corporate masters well. He does not know what to hell he is doing and no one with a brain that cares about this country would even want to work within this administration. Not that they would even be asked in the first place. The whole of the national elected officials are so irrelevant. If the people do not go to the streets and take our country back, we are done for.

It’s time for my morning 2012 re-elction campaign slogan re Obama:
IMO he’s the “worst President in my lifetime”.

Assassinating Americans anywhere anytime is a policy I just can’t get behind. Torturing American soldiers. Not my cup of tea.

Well, after all the shit we have seen these last ten years, I don’t want any part of this. Besides, who exactly would we be “supporting”? Where are the allies and what will they do? Fuck this war shit. Let the arab countries handle it. Let the UN gather up a force and we can support those efforts. Otherwise, stay the fuck out. start some sort of democracy action here at home against these thug governors who are taking over. More American blood is not needed over there.

The International Committee of the Red Cross has withdrawn its team from Benghazi. They handed over all their medicines and food to the Libyan Red Crescent and retreated to Tobruk.

Government forces are at present advancing on Benghazi.

Maryam

I think you are right about that. The people here, in this country, have to take the country back or the money interest will bury us.

US- Libya conflicts:

1981
1986
1989

Has Obama decided to “Go Reagan?”

Germany has every reason to ask lots of questions regarding the vote. The stance of Russia and China have been expected.

Australia is reporting these concerns.

Here is a very good analysis.

Juan Cole too.

That’s what Robert Naiman suggested.

Same questions. Who is going to set it up and protect it? Arabs, France, Britain or the good ole’ US of A whilst everyone else stands back and argues and critizes. I don’t want any part of that. we have humanitarian crises here with the homeless population growing. Fix that first.

Yup. There’s every indication that whether the NFZ move is sincere or not, it’s going to be too little and too late for the rebels.

Gaddafi’s going to slaughter the entire city of Benghazi, once the journalists are kicked out. (I expect he was hoping to use the NYT guys he’d captured as human shields to keep the US from intervening. They’re probably dead now, or will be should the NFZ happen.)

When faced with getting slaughtered, I am a firm believer in leaving:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkirk_evacuation

Because (I’m guessing the US/Euro thinking is going):

That would leave Gaddafi in place, and since he’s shown every sign of intending to get revenge on the West for not actively taking his side during the rebellion, the worry (real or not) is that once he finishes killing all the rebels, his power as the controlling hand on the European and US oil spigot will be greatly enhanced and we’ll see economy-destroying oil prices at the pump.

If we concentrate on Libya then we can ignore what is happening in Bahrain. Oh look shiny object over here.

And ignore what is happening in Japan, as well?

Indeed. And Bahrain’s the firewall for the Saudis.

Meanwhile, wouldn’t it be nice if we didn’t depend on guys like Gaddafi and oil barons like the Bush family to provide the energy that fuels our way of life?

Hint, hint: http://www.solarroadways.com

Turn the pavement of the US into solar panels, and we have three times as much power as we’ve ever used. Every place there’s a paved road, there’s guaranteed power. We can charge up our cars on the road, maybe even as we’re driving them.

And before you say it can’t be done, guess what? The Dutch are already doing it with bike paths:

http://iblockthebikelane.com/2011/02/03/amazing-dutch-bike-path-embedded-with-solar-panels/

Gotta be better than what we’re doing now.

Well, to do that here, you first need to instill it with a profit motive. then you will need to get Goldman to round up the investors and get the necessary government approvals and gurantees of that profit. Good luck with that. And then there will be a shit fight over all the competing energy sources including the biofuel folks who do not want to be left out and the drillers in the Gulf and elsewhere. But it sounds good.

It’s revolting to see this liar’s chorus consisting of Obama, Biden, Clinton, Gates, Rice et al. shedding crocodile tears over the Libyan resistance while tacitly supporting the same kinds of brutal oppression in Bahrain and Yemen.

Anyone who voted for Obama in 2008 was gullible; anyone who votes for him in 2012 must be psychotic or a member of the Wall Street, insurance or war profiteer elite.

These people have no conscience, no shame, and very little intelligence.

Phoenix, I don’t know what’s going to happen, but they’ve been TALKING no-fly zone for weeks now. When I see a few Libyan planes being shot at, I’ll believe that that’s what they really want.

On record here, I think they should support the rebels. Even using the callous “what’s in it for us?” mindset, I think that the upside outweighs the down.

It’s just that the U.S. government doesn’t like “democracy” if the people-power isn’t user-friendly to Wall Street and the Fortune 500.

I can hardly remember when
peace brokering mattered.

The alternative is always this:

http://images.clipartof.com/thumbnails/16164-Three-Toy-Soldiers-Marching-Down-A-Green-Carpet-And-Carrying-Candycanes-Clipart-Illustration-Image.jpg

I think it involves looking for slivers
of common interest from which to take
baby steps.

In fact, all these people have much in common.

If some actually support brutal dictators not
from out of duress, perhaps they’ll settle for
partition allowing for some fascist territory
but still allowing for open emigration.

Then, ideally, people should be allowed to vote
with their feet, such as if North Koreans were
allowed to move into the South.

http://sites.google.com/site/evernewecon

Yup. We could have had full-bore solar and wind by now, and much more efficient appliances, except for the fact that the Texas oil dudes who helped elect Reagan didn’t like that idea.

That’s why Raygun zapped the Carter efforts to get us onto renewables.

It really is nauseating.

I voted for Obama, happy in the belief that we wouldn’t get McCain and George Bush’s third term.

Who knew?

Now, I see 2012 as a matter of the survival of some vestige of democratic power: either we dump Obama or what happened in the mid-terms will look like a love tap from the voters.

OIL, OIL, and OIL !!!

Oh, I know — and for all the reasons you give. I fear that it’s too little, too late.

Kinda late to the dance, ain’t ya Barry? You’re closing the barn-door after the horses are gone.

“kinda late to the dance…”

He lost his dancing shoes for this, just like he lost his comfortable walking shoes for hitting the picket line with the Wisconsin teachers, et al.

FWIW I havent posted here in ages but seeing as I am part Libyan and have been watching this pretty much every minute for the past month, I thought I would throw this in:

I have noticed that my left wing friends throughout the blogosphere and across the sites are understandably cynical about enlightened humanitarian use of force by the US and/or the West. However, from the standpoint of the Libyan’s indeed for all the Arabs in the region, it is largely irrelivent what the motivation is. If the West does not act the results for progress in the region will be dire. Action is welcomed as long as it falls short of a physical foreign presence on the ground.

I had given up myself that the West would act due to the two irritating influences upon Washington out of Riad and Tel Aviv.
Suddenly late last night a sea change from foot dragging to aggressive backing of an NFZ AND possible bombing of G’s APCs and Tanks. What could have changed their minds?

One possibility, other than the discussions that were held with the opposition leaders and the reps from Tunisia and Egypt, may have been Saudi Arabia’s behavior in Bahrain. I think that this was done without US approval or warning and any agreement made with SA regarding a hands off approach to Libya to prevent protesters in the region from being emboldened (and hence inspire trouble in the Gulf) probably was made on condition of a softer approach to Bahrain.

I think the embarrassment of the Saudi actions may have convinced the administration that this was a FU and time to take a stand of some sort.

Ultimately, what worries me slightly is the acceptance of a Russian demand to call for a cease fire in the resolution which is also something Gadfly is asking for. It is possible that, sensing an International consensus against him, he is looking for a stalemate that will allow him to keep his gains and keep the country split in two. I hope for Libya that he will not succeed in this. If the rebels are allowed to fight back they will win.

I was thinking about this very question this morning on my way to work as I heard discussion of Amb. Rice’s statements. I agree that it’s all about the oil. I think we delayed supporting (in any way) the rebels, because we were concerned that an actual democratic government accountable to its citizens might not strike the same sort of corrupt bargains with foreign oil companies as an unaccountable dictator does. Now, though, it looks like Qadaffi is probably going commit militarized mass murder of civilians in the rebellious areas, and going forward it may be hard to justify dealing with him even to our Fox-addled public. Therefore in order to keep the oil flowing, we have to remove the bad dictator (now that he’s crushed those annoying DFH rebels) and replace him with a good technocrat pliant and slightly less-bad dictator who will do our bidding.

Could it be due to our DoD petro supplier?

Perhaps Obama found what he considers to be ‘tractable revolutionaries’-so once Gaddafi kills off the people that want meaningful change, Obama supports the groups waiting in the wings, gets to appear as a savior, and if they win afterwards they keep the oil flowing to the United States, or make preferential contracts with the United States Iraq-style.

The alternative being to just sit around while Gadhafi just slaughters those who oppose him?

None of the perotestors – men, women or children – will be allowed to live if Gadhafi prevails.

The cynicism here is a bit appalling.

“They” planned this, just like “they” planned Tunisia and Egypt?

[scratches head]

Kabuki. International Edition.

My best guess is this…..As this uprising became more and more viable, not just in Libya but across the region the powers that be realized that truly the oil fields of Saudi Arabia were in jeopardy of being compromised. They figured that if the tide of revolution could be stopped in Libya it would put a damper on any other ideas perculating in other more important areas i.e. oil areas and sure enough there is now a concerrted attack all across the region to stomp out the nacient begining of true democracy in the region. There is an intersting scene in Laurence of Arabia when the forces arrive in Damascus and there is chaos and confusion in the Arab ranks while the British stand by and watch the turmoil unfold. When the situation becomes untenable and the tripes leave to return to the desert and their nomadic life of course the Brits move in to restore order i.e electricity, running water medical care etc. This is what I think happened in Libya. The Obama administration basically dithered and himmed and hawed while waiting to see which way the wind was blowing and I think the situation is exactly where they want it to be. And that twerp Blair should tried for war crimes again becasue I am sure he was behind the scenes trying to preserve the staus que for his pal Gahadafy. This evectively gives Gahdafy control for the rest of his life unless of course he is offed by soemone in his army.

You’ve exactly described one of his two modus operandi (yeah, yeah, latin plurals are surely lacking).

The only time he acts differently is when he gives away the farm before negotiations begin.

I defy/welcome anyone to show that he ever manifests a behavior pattern other than the two mentioned above.

these twittle-thumbs are too late to the game. They are all dead already over there.

What’s going on seem pretty straight-forward. The US does not and cannot go it alone because it is overextended in Iraq and Afghanistan. And they want international cover for doing what the UN Security Council agreed needed to be done.

The US was not going to publicly commit to a no-fly zone until nations in the region did. The Gulf Cooperation Council called for a no-fly zone, and one wonders whether the payment for that was allowing the Khalifa family and Saudis to crack down on protesters. The Arab League called for a no-fly zone and the Lebanese government brought the proposal to the UN Security Council.

Getting the UN Security Council to agree has taken time; it’s still not done. And folks are trying to figure out exactly how the mission that will be authorized is going to work. Meanwhile Gaddhafi has tried to create a de facto victory before the international community can act. Time is not on his side, either internally, in terms of international sanctions already applied or further decisions of the international community. And taking a Benghazi, a city with a population of a million (possibly more considering the movement of Libyan displaced persons)) who are armed is not going to be done quickly.

Reading between the lines of Gaddhafi’s pep talk to his troops (promises of martyrdom, etc), it is highly likely that even the elite troops are fighting because they are in danger of being executed if they don’t.

If Benghazi folds rapidly, it is because the Gaddhafi officials who supposedly flipped really didn’t.