
Cairo's Tahrir Square as of 3:30 p.m. local time. (source: Al Jazeera via Livestation, 8:30 a.m. ET)
As we watch the Million Person March in Egypt, reports are that the protesters are energized and upbeat.
6:10am The latest update from one of our correspondents reporting from the centre of Cairo:
The protesters seem to be increasingly energised this morning. They clearly are determined to get today’s march sta[r]ting with a big bang. The atmosphere on Tahrir Square is very good. People seem to feel that some sort of victory is the air.
While Mubarak is trying to minimize the turnout by shutting down trains, turning off mobile phones and taking down the only remaining internet connection, Nour, which is used by Egyptian financial networks, his efforts are not working. Just a short while ago, I heard CNN’s Ben Wedeman say that “people are walking from the Nile Delta towns to Cairo,” an amazing sign of how much this effort means to so many in Egypt.
And for all that technology and social media have helped to build this movement, this mobilization, street by street, neighborhood by neighborhood is an important lesson for us all that personal, local connections remain powerful. There’s no silencing this call for Freedom.
On Monday, the crowd in Tahrir Square was “festive” reports Mohamed Elmashad in Al Masry Al Youm:
… families came out en masse, while many of the now-seasoned protesters appeared more relaxed, singing their slogans rather than chanting with anger.
“I’m having fun,” 13-year-old Mariam said. She was rollerblading on the street, while her parents, Ramy and Maha chatted and joked with old friends. Nabil, Mariam’s 15-year-old cousin, was also out enjoying the sunny Monday afternoon, despite having had his first taste of tear gas days earlier. “It was horrible, but today is totally different,” he said.
Mahmoud Gamal has been camped out in the square for four days, having participated in the protests everyday since the 25 January Day of Anger. The mood among the protesters has fluctuated on a day-to-day basis, he said. “It was extremely hopeful and surreal at first, then there were a few days that felt like an all-out war. After that it was tense. Today feels more like a carnival.”
People felt free to sing the chants accompanied by musical instruments, while using characteristic Egyptian humor, something most protesters had refrained from in the much graver past few days. One sign told Mubarak to, “Leave already! My hands hurt from holding this up!”
…Street artists took advantage of the atmosphere to display their talents. One group of activists were writing down different messages on the street and then coordinating their chants according to the messages. “These messages are meant for the helicopters, because we know that they have cameras up there,” said Khalil Salamah.
No one can be certain how Mubarak and his thugs will react to the march – and the day may be very serious indeed. The people of Egypt are well aware of the risk:
We are all Khaled Said Just saw a footage on Aljazeera where protesters in Tahreer have dressed in white shrouds used to cover the dead & written on it: Ready to die peacefully for Egypt.
The protesters know the risk but they also know they are winning:
At 1:14 [of this AJ video of “voices from the square”] the speaker to the crowd says the following:
“People everyday tune into morning TV, and they see that ordinary Egyptians are still on the streets. And that they are brave….and God willing, we’ll be out here on the streets. And please know that you’re not alone.The Angels are protecting you.
Are you scared?
[crowd yells NO!]
“I wanna tell you that Hosni Mubarak is afraid and terrified. The whole administration is terrified.”
While the protesters prepare, Obama and his administration continue to waffle. Bloomberg has the headline “Obama Seeks to Support Protesters Without Repudiating Mubarak” but at least we now hear that the White House is watching Al Jazeera – perhaps they will learn something. [cont'd.]
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If the White House is still dithering, the Financial Times – not exactly a rabid DFH publication (though my favorite and only newspaper) had a remarkable lead editorial “Time to end the Arab exception” on Monday. Obama could learn a lot by reading it as well: (subscription req):
To take us into Tuesday, here’s a great video which reminds us that the message of Tahrir Square is not just for Egypt but for us all. The music is from the Flobots.The Mubarak regime is at the centre of a network of regional strongmen the west has backed and bankrolled to secure stability in a neuralgic region, guaranteed oil supplies and the safety of Israel. As waves of democracy have burst over almost every other tyrant-plagued region in the past 30 years, the US and Europe have connived in an Arab exception – and Egypt is its exemplar…
But what shallow realists in the west fail to grasp is that the risk grows greater the longer these corrupt regimes, incapable of meeting the aspirations of their young populations, remain in power. Instability is certain; it is the future that is up for grabs. For now, it is young, mostly secular democrats who have taken a courageous initiative in the streets. They deserve support.
Instead of propping up tyrants for short-term and often illusory gains, western policy needs to find ways of stimulating the forces in Arab society that might eventually replace them. After the 9/11 attack on America, a misguided “they-hate-us-for-our-freedoms” industry emerged. No. What Arabs and Muslims hate is western support for those who deny them their freedoms…
It is for the Egyptians (and the Arabs) to claw their way out of the pit of autocracy. The least they can expect from the west is to stop stamping on their fingers.
“El sha’ab yureed eskat el nezam”!
(“the people want to collapse the [current] system”).




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Great tweet from the BBC: “Egypt: If you want people to stay at home and do nothing, you should turn the internet back on.”
Fuckin-A right.
Shutting down the bankers’ internet now, eh? Mubarak is really not very bright, is he? If Egyptian bankers are anything like American bankers, their ability to make money is absolutely paramount to them and they aren’t going to appreciate this move very much.
I really do not understand what Mubarak thinks he’s accomplishing. He’s not doing enough to shut it down, but he’s being incredibly oppressive. Seems to be finding the sweet spot to piss off the protesters to the max.
Doesn’t he? All the wrong moves Hosni.
King Abdullah of Jordan shuffling the deck chairs,sacks government.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/02/20112113957115258.html
Those who represent the American right—-many of whom are pro-Zionist fascists—all seem to want Mubarak and his regime to remain in power. They are claimimg that if the “people” get their way in Egypt the Muslim Brotherhood will gain some power, the Peace Treaty with Israel will be trashed and other Middle Eastern dictatorships will collapse. OK. So what’s the problem?
AP’s past “tens of thousands” for the past demonstrations is now – on NBC – “over 100,000 in the square in Cairo”.
It is enough To make the general strike a success in my opinion.
The transition plan needs to be announced ASAP.
Abdullah’s a little western puppet twit. It’d be nice if he got toppled.
It’s “catching”
Jordan’s king appoints new PM after protests
Obama can’t help himself, he want to back a sure thing, He’s a coward and a lousy poker player.
I see Mitt Romney on GMA here a few minutes ago saying Obama got “off to a rocky start”, meaning, I suppose, that Mr. Mitt would have known EXACTLY what to do and wouldn’t have been caught flat-footed like Obama was. HA!
what a bunch of poseurs.
I still think they’re shaking in their boots about what “secrets” will be revealed when a new government take over in Rendition Blacksite Egypt
Check. *g*
Is there a lesson here for “Obamabots” who can’t stop calling others “Unrealistic” “Politically Naive”? What “Obamabots” have been claiming to be “Serious” Pragmatism is not what the people of Egypt are employing to put an end to what they see as an unjust, arrogant, authoritarian, robber baron regime. “Incrementalism” ain’t the answer, folks. Especially when what is being coined as “incrementalism” by the Obamabots is really just a lot of hooey to keep the crowd from getting restless. I want our revolution to begin!
AJ reporting a million.
Abdullah’s mild as far as despots go but despot he remains. I wouldn’t be sad to see him go but I would regret that there would be now national leaders left who have appeared on Star Trek.
Me too. there are authoritarians on both sides R & L
Hmmm. Having trouble getting back on AJ after dn ended.
I’m very concerned that the State Department is evacuating non-emergency personnel. At the same time, I’m incredibly uplifted to see the courageous Egyptians in Cairo.
ElBaradei To Mubarak: Leave Egypt By Friday ….This town ain’t big enough for the both of us
Actually, AJE just changed to “up to 2 million in and around the square”
on edit; up to 2 million. sorry.
Indeed. I hope the corporate government is seeing the effect of millions of people pissed off and in the streets. A million in Boston, NY, LA, Chicago etc would topple the corporatists…it can happen here despite, and maybe because, of the patriot act.
AJ came up for me pretty easily and that’s odd considering that the rest of my internet is sluggish and weird this morning.
They’re saying lately that it’s probably more like two million with all the people arriving.
he is Saudi
The square looks pretty packed and loud.
Yes. I did a refresh & got back on.
Rayne wrote yesterday that she sat with her kids and compared AJ’s coverage to our cable outlets. Anderson Cooper did a report a little bit ago, saying there were 100′s of thousands. That’s a bit less than 2 million. Go Anderson. Not.
Saw this after I posted my comment. What’re you drinkin’ this chilly little mornin’ here in Texas? Hot toddy? Hot cocoa with embellishments?
The contrast has been astonishing. And informative.
Obama and the elite can’t possibly do the right thing. For one they can’t recognize their hypocrisy and their elitist top down view of “governing of the unwashed masses.”
They can’t possibly express support for anything which smacks of “the will of the people”… like universal health care… or having a government of, for and by the people as opposed the well heeled elites who have paid them off.
It’s marvelously transparent what a bunch of two faced liars we have in the media and government… save perhaps Kucinich and Sanders and a few others. The rest? Useless completely and totally useless.
After all the fascist Zionists did kill the kibbutz movement in Israel. Zionism has been a major destabilizing influence in the world since Herzl.
I’m guessing “they” don’t want “us” to get any bright ideas, huh?
Worse than useless, they’re dangerous.
We “knew” all that before Egypt, but Egypt certainly does give new insight & depth on just how bad our own leaders are.
Just water. Working.
Woke up @ about 2:40 this morning and it was 50 degrees. Now 24 NW of Georgetown. Wind chill undoubtedly in the teens.
AJE: Turkish government has announced they support the people.
VERY IMPORTANT: The last 10 minutes or so of today’s Democracy Now! broadcast are about the freedom of our internet. Leiberman, Collins and one other have put forth a bill to allow our president the power to shut down our internet, etc.
Is there anything close to an accurate estimate of what the largest known anti-government demonstration in recent history amounted to?
Heh.
And very destructive.
It’s a balmy, windy 35 on my back porch.
Heh. I think I’ve lost another Jewish friend over Israel, and that was before Egypt. I sent him links to the leaked cables that revealed how much Abbas had given up without getting a Palestinian state. No commentary from me, just asked him what he thought. I haven’t heard back. That was about 3 weeks ago.
Dallas airport closed,,,going to get colder in Austin all week is the report.
I don’t know. I do know that when we’ve had demonstrations in Los Angeles, I always read very different estimates of how large the crowds are.
That’s terrible…there was just very good coverage about the whole purpose of the ‘net to not go down in emergencies….etc
There are nervous governments all over the world right now. They are seeing that if the people rise up together, no matter where, there is nothing they can do to stop them.
This is a world wide wake up call.
The elite—the oligarchy—are capitalists. Capitalism is destructive and the elite—the oligarchy—swear by it. Power to the People!
That could lead to another 6 day war. I’d say that’d be a problem.
Kerry, always the brightest light on the porch, calls for Mubarak not to run again in the next election. Nor his son.
Your ‘friend’ still has the entire Evangelical Christian movement in America on his /her side so don’t shed too many tears for your ‘friend’.
That’s just what governments are so nervous about right now.
Morning folks – and what a morning. I’m at work today so won’t be around but what a glorious view right now from Tahrir Square!
and inspirational
Enjoy the view!
Since the protests in Egypt erupted, Obama administration officials have been trying to reach Mr. ElBaradei, but they had not made contact as of Monday afternoon, a White House official said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/01/world/middleeast/01elbaradei.html?_r=1&hp
This is a new signal
Our State Department was and is a joke. First to pull out and leave us stranded when Tripoli was rioting in Dec. 1979.
Thank God for the Brits who stepped in and renewed my EXIT visa or we expats were screwed.
and thousands still flooding into the square over the bridge … wow
Cold and wind hit here exactly 3:06 am. Neko is pissed cause I made it get cold again.
How about a war of Israel anniliation? Perhaps Armageddon? You know, the final clash between the Sons of Light and the Sons of Darkness? Of good vs. evil. Again, what’s the problem?
Abdullah’s US queen Marie Antoinette! What must she be thinking? Maybe something like “thank god I’m a dual national”. But no more CNN lifestyle magazine features for her. How will she continue her up to now worthless, parasatic existence without them? Oh no…..
Morning…funny, seems to knock Angela completely out cold…..
When I was out and about yesterday I spoke with a guy about Egypt and his answer was “Hell, yeah, they laughed at the tea bag movement, but we could use a revolution here.”
Neko is curled up in a ball on the warm spot I left on the bed.
Most smart folks think big war is a problem, IMHO
Maybe that’s why A. was so eager for me to get up…but she is sprawled on the floor.
Insofar as Hillary represents the thinking of her husband, and politcal mentor, Slick Willie any failure at the State Department lies at the feet of Bill and his 8 years of proping up the bloody dictator Mubarak. And of caving into the Zionists both here in America and in Israel.
I was laughing yesterday when I thought of what a million people march of tea baggers would look like, compared to what we’re seeing in Cairo. They probably wouldn’t be cleaning up the trash and separating the recyclables. But, maybe I’m not being fair. But the thought of all those plaid shorts and tshirts with sayings like I don’t want to push “1″ for English just made me giggle. Oh, and aluminum folding chairs.
The slaughter of innocent people is always a problem for me. I don’t care what government leads them.
I still think Mubarak’s already gone. Suleiman, reported on the teevee (MSNBC or CNN..I don’t know which), offered to speak to the protesters…Good f’ing luck thug.
If I were EB, I’d keep my distance from anything U.S. Can only damage his reputation in Egypt.
Enjoying your work on this story. Thank you.
The image of not taking WH calls is pretty interesting, but he is very busy.
Any war is a problem imo. It’s never Army vs Army anymore. It’s always “let’s see how many non comabatants we can slaughter” now.
“Most smart folks” didn’t misinterpret the meaning of my message. Should I try again?
Yep. She’s been my go to person. She and Al Jazeera
To add my two cents, as I’ve said before since the uprising in Egypt started, the only real immediate problem I see for Israel with a transfer of power is what happens with the tunnels from Egypt to Gaza that Mubarek has obscenely limited as per the U.S. and Israel.
I’m more concerned with the committee of 10 from the opposition saying that once Mubarek steps down they’ll be willing to negotiate with Suleiman and the rest of the government.
I hope it’s true that the U.S. government hasn’t been able to speak with El Baradei, but I can’t really believe that too wholeheartedly.
LOL.
Now, what’s your picture of what it would look like if we were out in the streets.
Sure. Give it a shot. I wasn’t sure what your point was either.
Talk about your eliminationist rhetoric.
Yes it is. If we lose net neutrality it will die with a slow groan and the effect will be what’s happening in Egypt, China and elsewhere, only incrementally.
“Two weeks from now, Congress will hold a hearing on Net Neutrality where Members will make known their intentions to repeal the FCC’s recently introduced Net Neutrality rules. If passed, this repeal wouldn’t just scrap the rules–it would also prevent the agency from taking action on this important issue in the future. While the FCC’s rules are far from perfect, they do provide a framework under which the agency can protect consumers and punish bad actors. Without this framework, internet service providers will be free to discriminate against users, services and types of traffic at will.”
And most won’t think it’s a “big deal”.
This after Obama promised free broadband like in Europe.
One of the most deplorable things the US media has done is to try to discredit El Baradei. One of the first things I heard from US “News” about him furing this current event is that “he has more connections in Vienna than he does in Egypt”. Fucking shilling assholes.
Well, our signs wouldn’t have misspelled words, I’m pretty sure. Lots of jeans, men with ponytails, hip (if not young) women. *g*
PS, and there might be a funky smell and a cloud of smoke. Just kidding.
“The slaughter of innocent people.” How about the slaughter of ideas? You know like Mubarak shutting down the internet? Or some Grand Inquisitor flipping the kill switch so that someones comments can no longer be seen on some blog somewhere? Are any of those a problem for you?
The Live Events list at the Guardian indicated that the Army seems a bit less dedicated to not clamping down on protestors, and it was worrisome.
And: “It’s not just Cairo, there are reports of huge demonstrations in several other Egyptian cities including: Suez, Alexandria, Ismailiya, Mansoura, Damietta, and Mahalls.” Hundeds of thousands in Alexandria.
The other thing worrying me right now is that Al Jazeera is reporting the start of food shortages in Cairo. I’d hate to see the demonstrations end based on not being able to get food.
I dunno. I’ve always kinda wanted to carry a sign that says Morans suck.
LOL. You’re in good form this morning.
What does one have to do with another?
I’ve been worried about that too. Mr. Jesus might have to come and do that loaves and fishes thing.
Good morning. Very busy this morning. Sorry for the lack of responses.
Siuns reporting has been stellar. (AJE open in another window since Friday.)
My favorite sign sighted at Crawford when Cindy Sheehan was here was:
“Angry white man for peace.”
Juan Cole has some interesting perspective on possible divisions within the Egyptian military, which would explain some of my puzzles. Scroll down; the beginning of his commentary is just a repeat of news you’ve proll already heard.
RevBev being a reverend and all should be pretty familiar with the ‘Word’ don’t you think demi?
No problem at all. Are you and cbl well?
I suspect we’ll see some clamping down here in the states sometime soon. Just to teach us all a lesson… about how dangerous it might be to demonstrate in huge numbers in the street.
Read Juan Cole. Apparently there are divisions within the military.
We are. Hope all is well with you and ‘neko.
Why are you on the attack this morning? Why are you equating anti war with pro suppression? Why are you manipulating what people say into some distorted shape of despot accepting, apologist rhetoric?
First you were disrespectful of RevBev, and now you’re being out right rude to Margaret. Please stop. You’re not the only one upset about the situation.
M’eh. Doing okay we are. Got February covered now I think. :)
Good Morning Siun and firedogs
via twitter – in the last 20 minutes, Al Aqsa, Al Hewar and Al Manar (arabic language stations) are broadcasting Al Jazeera.
innocent people = internet connection.
Now I get it.
Kucinich and Sanders are as two faced as the rest.Only for show Kucinich and Sanders would have been on the peoples side durring Healthcare instead thay thru the US citizens to the wolves aka the health insurance industry.Trusting that people who been in DC for 10,20,30 years and let so much be taken away from the citizens.Fox watching the hen house.Kucinich and Sanders same as the other puppets of the financial elites.All incumbents seem to be corrupt when thay get there.
If you’re a Zionist be proud to name yourself a Zionist. If not then call yourself a Progressive or something else. Identifiers used to facilitate discussion nothing more.
and apparently King Abdullah has dissolved jordanian parliament
Interrupting… well, at least the signs would be spelled properly.
*whew* I’m glad I’m not the only one who found that bizarre.
Sort of, but no. At least you’re making an effort.
The problem is that there are a lot of people living in Israel who do not support what the Israeli government is doing, just like there are a lot of people here who do not support what the U.S. government is doing just like there are a lot of people in Egypt who do not support what the Egyptian government is doing.
Right now it’s the turn of the Tunisians and the Egyptians to create a form of government that values freedom and justice. Hopefully, this will be the cracking open for all of us of an opportunity to create justice and freedom everywhere.
I’m really prefer that than annihilating Israel or Armeggadon.
Good morning sweet lady. :)
Why?
M: You had mentioned a lease on another page….for how long is it? If you do not mind saying….
If they (Mubarak etal.) were innocent for example, there would be internet connection. ???? Is that the meaning?
Bringing TVs into Tahrir Square so they can watch AJ watch them. Great image.
Until May.
Yeah, I don’t get that either. Apparently anti war = despot loving, internet killing, pro torture, Zionist apologist.
Looks like I am not the only one who did not quite get it….
Yeah, NBC’s only off by an order of magnitude. Not bad for them.
OT: Looks like that should be time to make a plan, huh? We hope so.
If you find my words disrespectful or rude to RevBev, I’m so sorry. I simply wanted RevBev to offer to us her expertise on what Armageddon means in the Bible. I assumed that her tag indicated some biblical study and therefore some enlightenment for us on the topic. If I’m wrong about her knowledge of this area of esoteric thought then I apologize.
CNN saying protesters are “even” saying Mubarak appointed VP Suleiman could stay if he guarantees there would be free elections…Oh sure he will…Are they out of their minds?
Oh I see, that makes sense…uh..um… lol
I’ve been trying but the track record of my plans doesn’t lend confidence I’m afraid.
I haven’t had a TV since last Thursday, so I have no idea of how U.S. media are covering Egypt. When I sometimes catch a wiff, like your comment, I am amazed at the ignorance.
Yet another thing we ‘knew’ in advance of Egypt, but know a lot more deeply now.
all three stated “solidarity with Al Jazeera”
Not being a crazy person myself, I agree with you that Armageddon should be avoided at all Peaceful costs.
‘zup sister !
Not the temperature! Brrrr!
Heh. AJ anchor finally asked my burning Q: How do they go to the bathroom. AJ reporter ignores that part of the Q.
Do you believe what CNN tells us? Or any other corporate American media outlet for that matter?
Very interesting. Do they not have their own reporters in Egypt?
I was just wondering that myself.
reliable source from Tahrir saying – no march to Mubarak’s house today
http://twitter.com/#!/3arabawy (rec. by Sharif Kouddous)
looking in to translation for twitter apps or pages
Moi? Most defindteitely. Every single wrod.
Maybe that’s why they’re separating all the plastic water bottles out from the rest of the trash?
Like they do at Mardi Gras, I guess;)
cbl – you made my week with your FB message …
ain’t this grand!
LMAO!
assuming yes, these are state television broadcasters – the announcement seemed to please the crowd in Tahrir
I’m sure it’s not for recycling…at least not in the traditional sense. ;)
I was about to ask the same thing.
Could be part of the A.
;)
Waiting for the US to bail him out. These autocrats believe they are indestructable right up to the very end.
Wonder how their govt masters are feeling about it.
Fine for the guys, but what about the gals? Those styrofoam cup of noodles containers?
AJ saying “….nearly two million people have gathered…”
The crowd sounds louder.
You can always shape one plastic bottle into a funnel to pee into another plastic bottle.
There are some things, many things, that are impossible to triangulate. Taking a position and defending it, something the talent-challenged Mr. Bush knew how to do, seems wholly beyond Mr. Obama’s ken. There are some things, Mr. President, indeed many, that are impossible to triangulate without losing all credibility.
.
I’m thinking that when the revolution comes to my town, I’m gonna wear a hippie skirt instead of jeans. Ya know?
Let’s just hope they just have to pee..%~0
Definitely me too. And spare underwear!
Can I get a big AMEN from the congregation!
Oh noes. I guess that’s why God made plastic grocery bags. Works for my dog.
Who knows what goes on under the burka.
Every time I hear the protesters called a ‘movement,’ I cringe.
AJE reporting that EB just met with the American ambassador to Egypt.
Oh you! *g* We’re getting giddy here.
El Baradei has met with the US ambassador according to AJ
yes ! genuinely inspiring – was so concerned when I finally went to bed last night that we would awaken to carnage
707
The elephant in the living room here is Saudi Arabia. Mr. Obama does know that Mr. Mubarak’s only course is to negotiate a reasonable exit strategy for himself and the closest members of his patronage network, and to work with whomever the Egyptian opposition and Army agree on as an alternative. What must be exercising all of Mr. Obama’s foreign policy apparatus is how to work with the Saudi monarchy and, Bush v. Gore-like, suggest that this is not a precedent for the wider Middle East.
I sure hope we get the secrets. I think Mubarak is blackmailing and that is why this administration has to continue to support him.
You don’t mean traffic jams, do you?
I owe you a drink kind lady. :)
AMEN
I missed that.
A lot of time spent in small aircraft or personnel carriers, no doubt. It is amazing how relieving can be the notion of recycling plastic.
on twitter late in the night
we pretend they hate us for the freedoms we pretend to have
Maybe the Arabs will win this time. That would be an improvement.
Sounds like they are just going to ignore Mubarak and make a government with EB..
Interesting how the US is orchestrating the creation of a new government…how odd.
eCAHN, I just went over to read Juan Cole’s comment on the divisions of the military as you recommended earlier. Very instructive. Here’s a piece:
One enormous downside is that the oil companies are going to use this as an excuse to jack up the (already rising) oil
pricesprofits. Despite the fact that there hasn’t been and almost certainly won’t be any disruption in supplies.Yeah, I wasn’t going to point out that I know that such is possible through trial and (thankfully) very little error.
the Obamabot Thom Hartmann went as far as to lie to his listeners yesterday regarding, the 1.3 billion. He said the administration was using it to get Mubarak to do something. Even continued that after his listener ask him if that was correct. He reminded me of Baghdad Bob.
Oh, ha. I was actually thinking of the immigration protests.
That’s one of the big problems, but not the only one.
A real dilemma on how to deal with Israel, which will continue to call for the destruction of Iran and whatever follows Mubarak in Egypt.
And and and
O et al definitely not up to the task.
Hmmm…it seems to be happening in spite of US orchestrations, not because of them.
I’ve been accused of being a lot of things around here, but never a Zionist.
My version, at one point, was: Now that we no longer have any freedoms, do they love us again?
yesterday K was on AJ and said our main concern had to be the security of Israel. Dis not call for Mubarak to step down. I fear we are on our own.
Thanks. I was too lazy to copy that, but I agree it was the clearest part of the post.
Thom Hartmann…another proud “progressive” who panned the individual mandate all the way until the time Obama was for it. Then it went to “we’re going to fix it”, then to “it’s the best we can do”…. Spare me Thom.
Fra Angelico would be fine. On such an amazing day of cold in Central Texas and high solidarity with the Egyptian street, I’ll drink even at this hour.
For me, El Baradei talking to Amb not so fine. However, it was clearly inevitable.
Yep;) I just checked back on Movie night; looks like it got alittle weird there, also. I had signed off before that heated up.
Excellent.
Wow – a rewrite of history – of Taba – the offer that the PA said they should have accepted – a few months after they rejected and but then had Bush to deal with rather than Clinton – and indeed Taba was the basis for the PA concessions – they ended up agreeing with Bill.
Must be hard to handle that constant need to smear Bill and Hillary Clinton – have you heard that Hillary is not running against Obama in 2012 – maybe that will help.
A gallon of gas should be at least $5.00 per gallon. You won’t get alternative energy sources until gasoline is priced at a very high level.
Trump says,
“It also could go the other way. Frankly, the Middle East is a tinderbox. It’s going to explode. OPEC will probably be destroyed if it explodes, and oil prices could go the other way.”
http://nation.foxnews.com/culture/2011/01/31/trump-mideast-explosion-could-destroy-opec-lower-oil-prices
Kucinich actually said that? I’ve always thought he’s a bit of a flake, but that is really OTT.
I don’t know what to say. There are a few dogs who will jump on anything I say. :(
Or does being anti individual mandate make me pro cannibalism? Can I get a ruling on that?
/s
So Dennis Ross tells us. Me, I’m not convinced.
LOL.
As long as it’s traded as a commodity, neither supply nor demand are particularly relevant.
Yeah, or really just anything. Take care.
K?
Ah! I thought so. :)
Will do. I’ve got my big girl panties on today.
OTT?
You funny.
From We are all Khaled Said: Aljazeera: 2 Million people confirmed in Tahrir square now. Total of 8 Million people protesting all over Egypt. Protesters have been really peaceful with an unbelievable sense of unity. A phenomenon community spirit. Yet, Mubarak stays.
Make sure Mubarak takes the IMF with him when he goes.
over the top.
Shows Kucinich has no command of the obvious & is just another Israeli tool.
There’s fraud to go around.
There’s arrogance to go around.
There’s scapegoating to go around.
There’re common problems.
There’s a common future and common hope.
I think it’s time to grow up, stop scapegoating, distrusting.
If the common growth and happiness of our children and our own
abilities to participate economically on a fair playing field
are some of what matters, then while we might help assure Israel’s
sense of security, where Israeli Arab women speak of their freedoms and
achievements, then while we there check arrogance and throughout the region the scapegoating and lack of trust, we surely need also to challenge
fraud at home. That assures our own democracy and our own children’s
ability to be ambitious for good end, on a fair playing field.
With all that in mind, I offer y’all this re-print:
Now that a District Federal judge has held the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act is unconstitutional, why not prepare the following.
(seek legal advice independently; this is not offered as such:)
Progressive organizations, private class action firms:
explore whether having sold insurance knowing customers would be on shaky ground when it became apparent they likely really WOULD need care
constituted fraud; whether the inability of persons to move from state to
state without going coverage “naked” as to health risk factors where such factors have already presented is interference with interstate commerce; and, at the very least, the progressive organizations should immediately
work to eliminate the health insurance cartel’s statutory immunity from the anti-trust laws.
Where something walks like it’s rotten, quacks like it’s rotten, and looks rotten, it probably is.
http://sites.google.com/site/evernewecon
Oh, you’re back. Thanks so much Siun, for all of your hard work. I hope our conversation about peeing and such was not offensive. :)
Huh??? Your analysis explodes every economic theory ever developed. Are you sure about this?
Yep. Amazing stuff.
My computer’s getting hinky & slow. I’m gonna reboot & get some food. BBL.
You can’t expect much from a guy who sues a cafeteria because he was idiot enough to bite an olive pit.
Thanks, eCAHNomics; Juan knows a lot. I’ll go read.
Are you saying that the corps aren’t artificially inflating oil prices?
We know they do that all the time. Dare I say “the smart” people know that?
Because if you’re saying that, it must mean that you find the Bushido code a preferable way of life.
/s
Tom Hartman is an honest guy my age that paid his dues helping the poor and starving in the US and in other countries – indeed tried to help troubled kids for a few years.
But he does insist on living in the present – accept where you are and move forward. The good part of that is that he does not lie about history and how we got to where we are. And he has contacts that are easily as good as mine and almost all the time better. If he says State is using the military aid to shape the military response, you can take that to the bank. I know the standard attitude toward Hillary left over from what Obama planted in the primaries makes accepting that she is doing good hard for some to accept – but everything I know and hear seems to indicate she is keeping things going in the right direction, albeit this is a peoples revolution and she is not in charge of it.
By the way at 6 am Cairo time the maps of the route for todays march were printed and being passed out – impressive!
I’m saying that OPEC controls the price of oil and the multinational oil companies control what OPEC does. Further, the more of a commodity, in this case oil, there is on the market the lower the price will be. And vice versa, the less of ‘something’ the higher the price. How much oil is actually in the ground? By limiting oil production OPEC can increase the price of oil by creating scarcity.
apparently, ElBaradei has told US and Egypt officials that negotiations on transition will begin when Mubarak leaves the country
there’s some snark about Obama’s negotiation m.o. here, but am too twitterpated to try :D
Welcome back Siun – I love your reporting and respect your sources.
I was wondering about the country wide count – yours is the first I have seen – I expected Suez and Alexandria to have large demonstrations but the smaller towns were a question mark for me. This is clearly larger than the recent French protests – lets hope they are more effective than the French ones in bringing change.
I caught the fact that the kids at the Art Institute are on the streets selling their wares – brought a smile because I was hit up a few times at similar events (and have two lovely drawings on Papyrus as a result)!
Oil has been held back via boats not landing for over a year as they tried to force the $75 up to $100. It is weird that Wall Street ignores this overhang via a China will use it mantra.
Bullshit. Explain the price spike in 2008 then.
Oh, Ecahn, I could give you a list of “progressive” friends, with whom I’m no longer friends, that’s about a foot long.
If you ask them if they would have liked to see a public option in the “reform” bill…
If you ask them if they’d liked to have seen inexpensive generic drugs allowed back into the U.S. to force Lily and Pfizer and Merck, etc. to reduce the hosing that americans are getting…
If you ask them why the health-insurance pirates deserve to be exempt from anti-trust laws…
If you ask pissy questions like: “Do you really thing he’ll pull all of our military out of Iraq by the end of this year?”…
If you point out that more of our troops have died in Afghanistan in Obama’s two year stint as steward of that misery, than died there in Bush’s nearly 7 year ownership of it…
If you asked them if they think that we REALLY need another corporatist in the White House, as Obama’s new Chief-of-Staff, Bill Daley, enjoys $7.6 million dollars worth of Morgan-Chase stock…
If you ask them how it feels to have Obama using the people who put him on the track the presidency (and whom, at the same time, derailed Hillary’s “triangulation express”) for stand-up comic material at fatcat dem fundraisers…
If you point out that Obama let British Petroleum use NOAA and the United States Coast Guard like a couple of trained parrots, to low-ball the living shit out of the catastrophe in the GOM…
If you don’t want to clap louder while Obama takes his weekly shit on us…
If you’ve gotten to the point that you believe that Obama’s real value to us has been reduced to, politically, serving him up to the voters in 2012 like a suckling pig on a plate, as we dump him and go looking for a few REAL progressives…
If you do these things, then, my 2C, trying to hold onto these “friends” is about as sensible as courting the people who were blind to what George Bush and the GOP were doing to us.
Just sayin…. :o)
Because that didn’t have a goddamned thing to do with supply or demand. That was pure speculation, an activity made possible by the fact that oil is traded as a commodity.
Yes, there’s that.
Put that in a diary and post it…or it will be forever lost in comments.
Better get some planning going to get AJ to do the reporting. Otherwise, as we all know, the revolution will not be televised.
Agree. Oil along with many other commodities is artifically manipulated to raise and lower prices according to what our wealthy overlords desire. There’s been loads of oil on boats for over a year, whilst gas pump prices in the USA, at least, have gone up & down with no real bearing on the reality of how much oil is actually available or not. It’s all a scam these days.
exactly: speculation. all in the name of our fat-cats giant casino/ponzi scheme called “Wall Street.” Has nothing to do with supply and demand anymore, despite the wingnuts worship of what they wish to believe is the “free” market. There is no “free” market anymore, if there ever was. It’s *all* manipulated by the elites.
It tells me more about eten, spraying that free market, supply and demand tripe.
I owe you a drink too! :)
The people are out en masse in Alexandria too. I wonder what Suez looks like?
Agree with you & eCAHN. I have to tread carefully with trad Dems who really don’t *want* to wake up out of their stupors to *pay attention* to what’s going on. When I start listing stuff like what you did, I can see them metaphorically put their hands over the hears and going: lalalalalala can’t heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaarr you!
A lot of it comes down to laziness combined with the fact that most citizens still wish to drink very very deeply of the mythical American exceptionalism Kool Aid. That’s my take, anyway.
Next time I’m Tejas, I’ll take YOU out for a drink. Not sure when that’ll be, however…
Papau, if they really want to see oil prices spike, all they have to do is send a few JDAMs sailing into Iran. In fact, I’ll put it like this:
What’s going on in Egypt is a golden opportunity:
For Obama to gain some credibility with moderate and progressive Muslims across the world.
For Obama to REgain some moral high ground.
For Obama to tell the jingos who want to continue the state of permanent war that we’re in, to go shit in their hats and thereby to convince american voters that he’s the damn president, instead of a butt-boy for the status quo protectors.
If keeps dragging his feet and trying to find a way to prop up Mubarak, then it will be one more spinning plate waiting to crash, in the near future.
And that brings me back to those JDAMs, and/or slipping the leash off Israel to have a go at Iran. If Obama doesn’t do something to make some real difference in this drift to disaster that he’s allowed to happen, then I’m afraid that when the plates start to fall, he’ll be willing to get into the mid-east apocalypse mode, and no bullshit about it.
I only hope that he has a few people around him to counter the usual knee-jerk reaction to a populist move to dump one of our despotic whores, who will tell him that this is a great opportunity, and nothing to be afraid of.
Caveat: I am not optimistic.
Speaking of which, where’s my Fra Angelico?
A very good question re Suez. I heard that there were demos of varying sizes in different cities and towns across Egypt. Time will tell.
The responses I get to such remarks are either slack-jawed amazement, as I know more than they do about it, or patronizing: Oh, don’t be so hard on President Obama, from people who also don’t know that much about it.
Most of my Jewish friends are different, because they all “know” everything there is to “know” about Israel.
I’ll be getting up to Austin in a couple of weeks. Rosie’s?
Ah, tanbark tanbark… such very nice *pipe dreams* you have (yeah: I get it that you’re not optimistic).
In truth, ain’t it an effen bitch?????? THIS is what we all worked so hard to vote in this corporate clown to DO, and here we go again watching Obummer dance to his corporate masters’ tunes. The elites must be sh*tting themselves, and no doubt they’re *all* yammering in Barry Zero’s ears telling exactly how to eff the small people in Egypt.
What. a. bitch.
Power to the people!
Yes, too often I hear my trad-Dem friends giving Obama a huge giant “pass” bc, “after all there’s all those mean mean obstructionist Republicans and Obama can’t help it.” Or I get the: “But I *trust* Obama to *try* to to the right thing.” And so on… braindead, whether left or right wing.
Onitgoes; I’m sick of ass-covering bullshit for Obama, coming out of the mouths of “progressives”.
The capper question for them, which I forgot to list, and the one that’s irrefutable is this:
“Why do you want to reward him with a chance at a second term, when, in two short years, he’s led us from an historic win and an historic opportunity, right back into the political shitter?”
That one got me asked to leave the house.
I don’t know Rosie’s. When and where?
Now that I’m thinking about it, I think it was eCAHN who owed me the Fra Angelico.
I know nothing. I owe nothing. *g*
Rosie’s
I’ll give you a couple of days notice. Cool?
Just the other day, I had some wine and cheese with a dem neighbor. I’ve got to get out more. She was slack-jawed at what I was saying, clearly did not have the slightest clue of any of what I was talking about. Now thinks I’m a radical. Which I am so I guess that’s ok. I was equally shocked that she had no clue.
I *hear you*!!!!!
I don’t get it, myself, bc so much of what you list is incredibly *evident.* I mean, it’s not like it’s insanely *hidden.* Albeit, yes yes the lamestream rightwing media, yadda yadda, dancing w/the stars, etc etc.
But still: just look at the effen *economy,* the lack of *jobs,* frickin *unemployment,* no money at the local gov’t level, Wall St and Banksters getting *huge giant salaries and bonuses.*
This stuff isn’t exactly hidden.
Granted that the US population could really give a sh*t about either war, or the money spent thereupon, nor could they give a sh*t about issues like Bradley Manning’s horrible tortoruous incarceration. I *get* that the vast majority of US citizens sold out a long time ago on trifling piffles like that stuff (no snark intended cuz that’s how people feel).
But still: the sh*t’s on their own fricking doorstep, and they’re still fiddling whilst their neighborhoods “burn” with foreclosures & neighbors who’ve lost jobs, etc. Frankly, blaming “Nero” for fiddling is passing the buck. It’s US citizens who are blissfully watching our nation crumble and fail, and they *still* don’t give a sh*t. Unreal.
1. You need to get out more. 2. These days, you ARE a radical (sadly).
DFH
Just scrolled back to review. It WAS Margaret after all. I bow in my deepest apologetic bow.
I do tipple scotch when I comment in the evening, so anything is possible. *g*
Oh, God, shaking the GOP fear-doll at anyone who criticizes Obama and the dem jellyfish herd in congress has become a cottage industry for centrists masquerading as progressives.
Whenever I start feeling a little masochistic, I go over to Digby’s and put up a laundry list of how she uses Palin and her ilk to avoid talking about what Obama’s doing to the hopes and aspirations of real progressives.
Instant dogpile. :o)
It’s an act of kindness on my part, since it gives them a chance to vent their anger and embarassment at defending a blogger who can write paragraph after paragraph about how bad are the republicans, without ever mentioning the name of the man in the Oval Office who’s done such miraculous rehab on them.
I’m insulted that you don’t also honor that I’m a fucking retard.
In fairness, I should add, that under the pressure of all the evidence that Onitgoes spoke of, Digby is being dragged, kicking and screaming, into the real world. It’s fun to watch. :o)
Oops. I have been there. A very loooooong time ago. Sounds good. Let me know. Maybe we can create a Central Texas gathering of the clans.
I don’t visit too many other blogs for that very reason, which is why I also gave up on MSNBC, as well. All this: look over there at crazy Palin!!! Isn’t she just the pits???!!! Let’s all *bond* over how horrible Sarah Palin is!!!!! yippeeeeee!!!!!! Hooray for OUR side!!
Cannot stand it.
Yes, it’s very useful and of some real importance to focus on the so-called “Republicans” and what they’re doing. But focusing exclusively on the so-called rightwing’s “baditude” at the exclusion of all else is a bullshit exercise in futility.
Why Obamabots desparately cling to their love of Obama to the exclusion of common sense really eludes me. In the case of bloggers, in particular, *some* percentage of them have to be learning more than the average tv watcher. There lack of critical thinking and ability to really reflect on what’s happening and connect the dots goes beyond frustrating… the point where it’s really quite frightening how deluded people can be… to the deteriment of the nation as a whole.
Wake up, or we’re *all* through.
Glad to hear that she’s waking up, at least a little bit. How she can remain in DeNile (ark ark) is beyond me.
I think they share something with the bushheads; they’re scared shitless of change.
Also, a lot of them fall into the group that has been picked up by the repubs’ successful effort to find the economic price-point for:
“I’ve got mine, screw you, Jack!”
One of my friends is a nurse, and when I start talking about single-payer, I lose her as soon as the words come out of my mouth. Way back, I said that Obama was going dump the public option, to keep the fatcats happy. She said: “No, he’s going to fight for it.”
When the P.O. went off the table like a punchbowl with a big turd floating in it, she had NO problem with it disappearing into the bipartisan commode.
Shorter tb: In 2012, I will not go to a dogfight in hell with these people.
Will do. As for fucking retard, I thought that and drug addicted was implied with the DFH label?
“Look at crazy Palin!”
Thassit. :o)
Sarah’s the bestest red-herring that the “centrists” have, to drag across Obama’s feckless trail.
Agree. I think a LOT of trad-Dems have drunk the corporatist-served Kool Aid about trickle down and no-taxes-ever-under-any-circumstances, despite huge gobs of clear factual evidence to the contrary.
I hear trad-Dem voters often mouthing rightwing talking points without even realizing it, and it mostly can be summed up by saying: but but but trickle down *really* does work! and I *really* benefit from it, as a more-or-less middle-class income earner. Screw the lazy welfare queens! I got MINE, eff them!
Seriously hear stuff similar to this a LOT from trad-Dem voters. Hence many are *not* that disappointed in Obummer, as they see him as “looking out for their needs.”
pffffffffffffft ptoui!
One more poke at this, and then back to Egypt:
“Wake up or we’re all through.”
As it stands now, unless Obama can make a near-miraculous turnaround, for the democrats to present him to the voters in 2012 will mean a political tsunami on us that will make what happened two months ago look like a ripple on a millpond.
Palin was no *accident,* and although McCain is complicit, it’s not *really* McCain’s “fault.” Palin was deliberately chosen for who she is, and continues to be deliberately groomed and well-paid to be the Media Whore that she is. That woman is the ultimate Stepford Wife corporatist creation going, but boyohboy, she sure to get ‘em all going, whether rightwing slavering minions or leftwing angry eeejots.
I dunno. I’m still thinking that there’s enough trickle down Dems, who will support him & vote for him. IF the Oligarchs *want* Obama to be POTUS, then he will be. Time will tell.
Onwards and back to the grind.
“…to make a general strike a success, in my opinion.”
And that’s the next step. Waiting for Mubarak’s support, especially, that from the U.S., to evaporate, is a losing game.
The people of Egypt need to make this hurt. Shutting the country down for a week would be just the thing, right now.
Siun, alJazzera English livestream is reporting that the State television anchors are treating the revolution with increasing respect compared to the mockery and derision they’d been showing all week.
Any evidence of that you’ve seen, and if so, what might it signify?
Also, I must be the only person here who doesn’t know why you’re in Cairo. ;~)
OK, that one got me to delurk. ROFLMAO. I love this place.
To Siun, great great coverage, thanks. Commentariat: you rock.
*waving!*