The Al Jazeera anchor has questioned a spokesperson for the NDP as to why this move would be acceptable to the Egyptian people but the NDP answer is to describe the protesters as “the mobs.” The Al Jazeera anchor’s interview should be a lesson to our media as she reminds him that “these are not mobs, these are everday Egyptian people.”
The Muslim Brotherhood meanwhile has called for Mubarak to step down and a transitional unity government to be established without participation of Mubarak’s NDP party:
The Muslim Brotherhood has called for a national interim government in which the ruling party should be excluded, according to a statement posted Saturday on the group’s website.
Their spokesman on Al Jazeera said earlier that “no one party can properly represent the people” in the streets and “the MB does not intend to present a presidential candidate” but to support change. They note that “the US and some western regimes use the MB as a scarecrow” and want to make it clear that the MB does not intend to be a part of any government, only call for a truly democratic government.
This statement was underscored by a statement to Reuters from:
Veteran of Egypt’s main opposition movement Kamel El-Helbawy said the 1978 peace treaty with Israel might also be safe in Egypt post-Mubarak if Egyptians felt it delivered justice to all parties.
“A new era of freedom and democracy is dawning in the Middle East and Arab world,” Helbawy, an influential cleric in the international Islamist ideological movement, said in an interview in London, where he has lived since 1994.
“That’s more important than declaring that a ‘new Islamist era is dawning’, because I know Islamists would not be able to rule Egypt alone. We should and would cooperate — Muslims, leftists, communists, socialists, secularists.”
“Dictators like Mubarak have always told the West, wrongly, there is no difference between Islamists like the Brotherhood and some violent groups who are real fundamentalists.”
ElBaradei seems to be on the same wavelength:
Reform leader Mohamed ElBaradei said Saturday the Egyptian people have stated their one and only demand, which is for Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak to step down. The Egyptian people aspire to build a democratic and modern state, he said
Injuries and deaths from yesterday are higher than previously known. Al Masry reports:
The death toll so far during Cairo’s days of protests is much higher than reported in the news, according to doctors at one of Cairo’s largest hospitals.
A resident doctor at the hospital who was assisting with surgeries yesterday told Al-Masry Al-Youm today that most of those admitted were not wounded, but dead. He estimated the number at more than 50.
The doctor said the wounds were from live bullets, not rubber bullets, and most appeared to be aimed at the head and heart, leading him to believe that orders to the riot police were to kill, not injure, the tens of thousands of protesters who took to the streets in anti-government protests this week.
Update: Former Air Chief of Staff Ahmed Shifik appointed Prime Minister.
Update: The Guardian reports a new State Department statement sent via Twitter:
The US state department is pressing Mubarak to do more than rejig his government. Spokesman PJ Crowley said on Twitter:
The Egyptian government can’t reshuffle the deck and then stand pat. President Mubarak’s words pledging reform must be followed by action.The people of Egypt no longer accept the status quo. They are looking to their government for a meaningful process to foster real reform.
With protesters still on the streets of Egypt, we remain concerned about the potential for violence and again urge restraint on all sides.
Apparently, the State Department still feels that Mubarak can stay with “reform” which seems to continue to miss the point.



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State Dept/Crowley tweet in response to Suleiman appointment – ‘meh’ “can’t just reshuffle the deck”
A new direction in world politics as people’s concerns assert themselves successfully over oligarchs. A formation of the new government to be planned by a coalition of all parties as El Baradei points out. Hopefully a model that has effective checks and balances that can be adopted by other states as well.
“We want you out now!!”
“Um, ok, I will fire the people that you don’t know, and replace them with new crooks. Better?”
“NO! We want you out now!!”
“Um,ok, I will continue with reform that just happens to be making me and my buddies filthy rich, and making you even poorer”.
Say one thing, this is one dictator that isn’t going to leave until he is physically forced to. People that say violence doesn’t solve anything, have obviously never been in anything like these poor Egyptians. Without protests, and yes violence, there will be no change in Egypt. Even with it, Mubarak refuses to quit. Now what? Egyptians going to blog about it, or force him out? Hey I know, they can wait until election time!! Ya, cuz that works! Vote for his corrupt party, or vote for another corrupt party! Isn’t that the US solution?
MSNBC continuing it’s foolishness – non arabic speaking “arab expert” Evan Kohlman blathering on about the spectre of Islamic takeover
can’t find it right now and I have to head out – but was really struck by a quote from a MB guy on twitter yesterday – he acknowledged MB was behind the people’s curve on the uprising and were caught as flatfooted as anyone else
At least Obama gets it! Instead of “monitoring the situation” and grasping reality, his cure is for Mubarak to speed up reform. Hey Obama, do you not get Al Jazeera in the Whitehouse? Egyptians aren’t asking him to reform, they are telling him to get the f*ck out!!! Is this another of Obama’s WTF moments?
That’s why it’s important to listen to what the Muslim Brotherhood is proposing … they have been allied with secular opposition parties and keep advocating a coalition. The fear the muslims line keeps us on the wrong foot in the Middle East, to say the least.
Has the price of food contributed greatly to the revolutions in North Africa?
From everything I’ve been reading, the MB is a reasonable organization. Everything our media tells us about MB is proving false…
already late, must head out – thank you Siun !, you have been indispensable in your reportage – am so proud to call myself a firedog
not only did the NDP call the protesters mobs, he said Mubarak does not think mobs should be allowed to remove him. More deaths are being reported on AJ. Mubarak with the support of the US will not step down.
You betcha! Cargill has been racking up the profits while people starve.
The ultimate question is whether, not in best case–but in reasonably good case–Egypt’s economy can improve to the extent that its university graduates can be employed there. And how long it might take to show enough improvement to encourage the people that this end be in sight, and thus accelerate that improvement.
I suspect the USG will continue to miss the point until they have a friendly alternative lined up.
Siun could Crowley saying can’t reshuffle the deck indicate that the US does not like the choice of VP? For the most part they say nothing and then the minute he is announced Crowley says that.
Can’t help but notice that food prices are astronomically high. These types of movements often corrolate with times when people are going hungry.
AJ reporting that there is some looting going on in Cairo. Speculation that E govt let prisoners out of jail.
I would say so. When the spokesman NDP was on AJ he was saying the people asked for reform and so they should be happy with the new VP they were getting reform. But the journalist said that the people had not asked for reform. I thought what are you talking about, Oh right, reform, that is what Obama said Mubarak should do.
Go to Cairo and show them how a real revolution is conducted.
Jordan’s Muslim opposition warns that Arabs ready to topple US-allied leaders across Mideast
Source: CP
AMMAN, Jordan — The leader of Jordan’s powerful Muslim Brotherhood has warned that unrest in Egypt will spread across the Mideast and Arabs will topple their “tyrant” leaders allied with the U.S.
Hammam Saeed says Arabs have grown disgruntled with U.S. domination of their oil wealth, military occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan and its support for “totalitarian” leaders in the region.
Saeed did not specifically name Jordanian King Abdullah II — a key U.S. ally who has promised reforms in recent days in an apparent attempt to quell domestic discontent over economic troubles and a lack of political freedoms.
Saeed spoke Saturday at a rally he and some 100 leftists held outside the Egyptian Embassy in Amman.
==modnote: again, please provide links to quoted material, respect their copyright.==
Heartbreaking pictures of ancient artifacts lying about on the floor of the National Museum.
I’m surprised it took so long in order for Obama to send in troops to Egypt America must convince the majority that the Muslim Fundies have taken over and not a bunch of people who want jobs.
If the American people find out that Rebellion can get you jobs…maybe we can get Obama to fire his economic and military advisers, the catfood commission etc.
no biggie, “Stuff happens” /Rumsfeld
Egypt college student employment numbers vs American numbers would be interesting.
Watching AJ now. They are talking about a major museum being looted and vandalized. When when I hear these reports, as I inevitably do during mass demonstrations like this one, I can’t help but suspect that it was not protestors who did it, but establishment operatives.
They are talking about the suspicious lack of police and military presence at these looting and home invasion events. Most of those being interviewed are expressing suspicions that the looters are the military and police.
This is the administration’s biggest fear. If the people of the ME throw out the US puppets it will certainly put a huge crimp in the US’s financial hegemonic world view.
Revolutions present great opportunities for common thieves.
*sigh* This is very sad, indeed.
Define reform if Egypt took all of America’s military aid as cash and used it to create jobs that improved life and egypt’s infrastructure something like Solar power for every new home the I think he could stay on he needs concrete ideas big ideas not vague promises like reform.
Vague sounds to much like what guys mumble when pressed about marriage.
American Cable News is showing it’s true colors! We have heard very little truth and facts, yet they have a huge brood of ME “Specialists” yapping. Those Specialists have never walked through neighborhoods in Egypt or been inside a factory.
Sick! No wonder Americans are warped. Our news programs are dumb-down programs!
Indeed. Thieves inside and outside of the police will take advantage.
I have the same suspicions! Why on earth would the people want to destroy and remove their own archeological history?
Reform is more likely to be real when you have plans identify the funding Egypt could tax the rich and bid business more then set a date. However Obama disproved that theory:(
Its the same with their business coverage, war coverage whatever George Will is their Climate Change expert the man has no science background heck who ever writes the Talking points he reads has no science background.
I would say you are right on. When the Mubarak gov spokesperson was on he was saying there was looting and fires being started and there were not. Aj kept saying it appears all peaceful at the time he was talking about all the horrible acts of the mobs and now we are hearing about armed people looting houses. riding up on motorcycles and looting houses. The people are reporting no police protection. Those are the police.
My hope is that people in the country are tuning into AJ so they can start to understand what real news looks like.
In what world can America not feel played when we press Egypt for reform and Egypt in response makes their Intelligence chief not a give the poor a hand Lefty VP?
This pick is meant to show us he will crack down more.
Dictators terrorize their own people with threats of beatings, jailing, imprisonment, torture and execution, if they dare complain or protest.
Mubarak has been the dictator of Egypt for almost thirty years, supported by Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush 2 and Obama. Why do American Presidents supported the terrorism of a right-wing dictator in Egypt?
Why does Obama support right-wing dictator state terrorism in Egypt?
AJ is fantastic. It’s my new go to news source after the Lake. *heh*
Give it time it takes 6 or 9 months for any idea on the Lefty blogs to reach American society and effect change. It takes longer if the MSM refuse to cover it even if people are interested but thats why on the issues most important to Americans Jobs, Homes the Left not the MSM (as determined by amount of air time devoted to a story ) and not Washington is inline with the majority of Americans.
Never underestimate the stupidity of the American Elite and Media. The American people if given the facts however are quite smart but are lied to constantly. The Elite are stupid because they have the facts but still believe otherwise, they know that we won’t believe them so they lie to us about the facts.
Global warming is great example the war, the economy also great examples.
The Muslim Brotherhood has said it is no longer into violence – but some members have not given up on the Caliphate – which at the extreme is world domination.
The Muslim Brotherhood is the largest and most influential Islamic group in the world and advocates “pan-Islamic unity” and implementing Islamic law (Sharia) – its founder Hassan al-Banna wrote about the restoration of the Caliphate . There are those that say the new “pan-Islamic unity” goal is not the same as al-Qaeda’s (many of these on FDL :-)) – and perhaps they/we are correct. Indeed one’s views of the future are owned by each individual, and never the same from person to person, and I have not seen any “Muslim Brotherhood” Caliphate discussions in years.
AJ reports that military moving into Cairo neighborhoods to sweep away looters? I hope that is true.
Yeal no ads and always challenging not saleing the message.
Nope, the State Dept will continue with the never ending US Foreign Palsy.
I have respect for those here at the Lake who have intimate knowledge of Islam and Islamic movements in the ME. However…it is *one* view and does not necessarily represent the entirety of the population of the ME.
Having lived in Turkey, I have known many, many people who have differing views. Just sayin’.
Common Dreams has a live feed
http://www.commondreams.org/
Al Jazeera has a good summation of events through today. Clashes between protesters and security forces continuing through the night. More people took to the streets after Mubarak’s statement last night. Protesters are organizing to protect themselves from security forces.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/01/201112974149942894.html
Click above and you can watch AJE live all the time via FDL …
we do our best to bring you the best sources
Carmelva RT @dancefromiraq A doctor at Tahrir “the army were beating looters at the museum. Stopped when the looters said they were police.” #jan25 32 seconds ago.
commondreams.org live feed
Damn. I started to hope it wasn’t the police.
Thanks, Siun!
The live feed at Common Dreams are Tweets I think.
Fuck. Egyptians have to protect themselves from government looters. Fuckers.
It is like if our Homeland Security folks joined and disrupted our peace groups./s
thank you so much Siun and I have to say that us FDL folks are pretty perceptive. We knew these were Mubarak’s thugs doing the looting even before the AJ reported it.
Statement from El Baradei
Our DHS does and has and they are probably training Mubaraks thugs
I’m fascinated by Turkey. Don’t know for sure, but Turkey seems like a great place to be living right now.
Highly recommended. It is an a.m.a.z.i.n.g. place. I was there from the time Erdogan was mayor of Istanbul to the time Refah won power. It was scary, actually, because the future of Turkey was so uncertain and many regular folks feared the worst from the new government.
El Baradei: “We are talking about ending the Pharonic dictatorship.”
ElBaradei: “We don’t want military rule. That would be going backwards. We want a civilian government.”
Agent Provocateurs America needs the Rebels to be out of control and attacking people, looting etc. The WH hopes to discredit them like WTO protesters.
If Mubarak can’t use direct force from the military to crush the movement, it stands to reason that his thugs would then start looting homes and businesses. Doing so would draw people out of the square and back home to protect their family and “honor”.
like WTO protesters
Exactly.
First, many, many thanks to Siun. I’ve been watching Tunisia, then Egypt, and now hopskotching protests in other countries. And, above all, praying in my own atheist way for the safety of the people and their respective country’s cultural treasures.
I am curious, as referenced by sadlyyes @ 20, as to the discrepancies between the Muslim Brotherhood’s actions and responses in Egypt and Jordan. In Egypt, their approach is very hands-off, whereas they participate in and even direct to some degree the Jordanian protests. Maybe I’m overlooking the obvious, so I welcome others’ knowledge and insight.
Went off to cook & just came back.
I see that Mubarak is still rearranging the deck chairs.
National Museum and the Children’s Cancer Hospital have been victim to looters.
I’ll jump in, but consider my comment suggestive rather than definitive, as I’m not that knowledgeable.
The MB is different in different countries. I don’t even know how much they coordinate across countries these days. It started as a small movement in Egypt in the 1960s (see Sayyid Qtub), spread around the Arab & wider Muslim world in response to all the usual excesses of existing govts. But as time passed, owing to diff developments in each country, MB evolved different. After assassination of Sadat, Mubarak used them as the bete noire to crack down on the entire population. They have become more moderate in Egypt, and even though still officially forbidden, play a significant, kinda under the radar, role in Egyptian politics. But they need to be cautious because they are easy to scapegoat.
Don’t know much about MB in Jordan, but there the big issue is Palestinian refugees, and MB prolly plays some role in organizing them. Google around to see what you can find.
More Siun upstairs:
Mubarak’s Secret Police “Thugs” Try to Disrupt Revolution
True – I have been in the EU (including Greece!), Turkey, Lebanon, Eqypt, Sudan
And in each there was little that was consistent (although Greek students seem to be pro throw every one out at all times, and adults are in a constant “no problem” mode – I really like Greece!)
I favor a revolution in authoritarian state, and in one where you can’t audit the vote I am beginning to see advantages to revolution – but my day was in the 50′s and 60′s (I do miss my beard!)
I do not see a path – with or without Mubarak – that is all that “democratic” or economically promising. In the 60′s and 70′s there were those sleeping in the street and begging – and that has not changed. I hope for the best – but doubt much will change (a bit like voting Democratic :-))
I do not know of a co-ordinate version of the Muslim Brotherhood – each person buys as much as they want – and in each country peer pressure is different as to what you buy. The founder was one whose views are “in your face” to the west, but the folks I last spoke to on this (and that was over a decade ago) don’t see a current militancy at least in Egypt.
If you think bible study wars are tough, Koran reading groups are much rougher – at least that was my experience – folks know their position and interpretation and they know they are right, and peer pressure is 10 times what it is in a bible study group. I enjoy discussion – but I never found the answer to “What do THEY believe and how will it affect their next action”
REVOLUTION IN EGYPT DATELINE 29 JANUARY 2011 1745 GMT
Absorbing the latest news from Cairo, it appears that the regime of President Mubarak is fatally wounded and there will now be imminent radical political reform, which is long overdue.
This situation bodes ill for Israel’s policies which have totally depended on Mubarak’s co-operation in order to maintain its siege of Gaza and its restriction of its one and a half million citizens.
We can foresee a collapse of the existing Middle East structure which has been supported solely by billions of US dollars to both the Egyptian and the Israeli governments.
A future regional accord will probably be reached which will drastically curtail Israeli and American influence and which will lead to a changed profile whereby every Middle East state will in future have influence strictly in accordance with its size and population.
And lastly, pressure will be brought to bear for a Nuclear Weapons Free Zone throughout the Middle East, as a matter of urgency.
________________________________________
==modnote: please provide links to quoted material.==
water cut off?
Thank you. That jiggled my memory about the MB after Sadat’s assassination. And the lead regarding the MB’s assistance to the Palestinian refugees in Jordan is very helpful.
hey, works for those in power