I am astounded that this really is happening, and that these folks are selling this product.

After all, every homeowner and hunter needs their very own AR15 to lay down that field of covering fire to get them to the car each morning, right?

This is precisely the kind of shit which has to stop.

These hateful Republicans will never grow a conscience. No damn wonder their party is shrinking to a gang of racists, bigots and the contemporary KKK.

Is that a US Congress seal I see in Wilson’s endorsement of the product? Is that legal?

I am too.

A sad, sad commentary on the state of our nation.

What a lack of leadership and failure in professional behavior.

Does Wilson claim to be a Christian? I would like to know.

These are very sick people. And dangerous.

I thought that’s what remote engine start devices were all about. What? They don’t provide machine gun cover too?

See! Arizona is not the only state filled with hate mongering crazies!

Just north of Demint, Rep. Foxx is screaming there are commies out and about. We should all be afraid./ s

The cognitive dissonance on display is staggering.

The tinderbox is lit, and these chuckleheads keep throwing rocket fuel on it.

Nah, that’s a special option available only to the “correct” people

they should also put it on their porto potties,for extended hunts
send one to darth Cheney with an electric outlet for his pump

killing the helpless is sooooo much fun/sarcasm

Chuckleheads. You are waaaay too generous.

Yes, they do but the more they talk, and spin, and whine, the loonier they sound. If I had to bet I would say that many people who have considered themselves a little right-leaning or perhaps independent are today re-thinking their options. Who would want to be associated with the lunatics?

Lemme guess: You get a 10% discount if you pay in gold, 20% if you pay in Confederate scrip?

Rep. Virginia Foxx (R-NC)
says political rhetoric doesn’t really incite violent behavior at all — but not before describing Arizona shooting suspect Jared Loughner as a “communist” and “the liberal of liberals.”

“This guy appears to be a communist,” Foxx told the Winston-Salem Journal. “His beliefs are the liberal of the liberals . There is no evidence whatsoever that this man was influenced by Sarah Palin or anybody in the Republican Party. This man is not a conservative; he’s a fan of communism – that’s the opposite of conservatism.”

LOL! Confederate script.

Another great piece of Conservaturd work, heh?

How do you get 20% off worthless?

LOL!

verrrry funny you is

talk about really unstable thinking

The dogwhistle here, of what the customer can do with his “you lie” gun is truly frightening. Appalling. Where is the ATF when you need ‘em?

No. THIS is unstable thinking…

But there remain dissenting opinions on the matter, such as the one offered by Cindy Jacobs, that these mass avian deaths are actually being caused by the repeal of “don’t ask, don’t tell.”

It is a scary thing when the people in office to lead this country are talking like they belong in padded rooms.

With that, I’m off for the night.

Yup. Sounds like a gun to target….

Secret Service???? Where are YOU?

It is a scary thing when the people in office to lead this country are talking like they belong in padded rooms.

Fixed it for ya.

ATF might well be behind this scheme, the increase their budget.

Actually, the bills are quite collectible nowadays — an irony, considering that towards the end of the war and for some time afterwards, they were indeed worth so little as media of exchange that people used the uncut sheets as wallpaper.

Wilson and gun designer/maker need to be arrested immediately.

Sheeee-yit, we need to have a feature called “Onion or Reality?”

But let us be quick to point out, since the wingers are looking to take everything we type out of context, that the padded cell crowd on the right has every freedom of speech right to espouse their crazy views as long as they don’t yell fire in a crowded theater.

“Onion or = Reality”

Fixed it for ya.

It is just short of saying, “We’ve got a gun with your name on it.”

This offer is a clear threat to the life of the President. When will the Secret Service investigate?

one of the most popular semiautomatic rifles around.

The strike through on semi-automatic isn’t correct. Fully automatic weapons can not currently be manufactured or imported for civilian sale. These receivers aren’t going to be sold to law enforcement or military.

Civilians can buy existing fully automatic weapons if they pass an extensive background check and pay a transfer fee. I don’t understand why anyone would do so, it just means spending more money on ammunition. Maybe some people like to hear the ripping sound of full auto fire, but it’s a lot cheaper to just play a recording of it.

I’m sure you’re going to get much more sarcastic responses to that bit of formatting – it almost seems like you’re trolling.

What’s the substantive diff between semi-automatic & automatic rifles? I ask out of total ignorance, not out of snark. Also what’s the diff between these 2 kinds of rifles and machine gunz? Can one buy a machine gun ‘legally’ in the U.S., and if so, under what circumstances?

Trolling? “You Lie” is the issue here…not what kind of gun it is. Sounds more like Wilson and crew are “trawling” for people of a certain persuasion.

Well, I did hear a couple of rants today…the notion of violent speech almost pushed Laura Ingraham over the edge…she finds the whole notion incomprehensible/let the speech continue etc etc etc….She probably still raving…..And the Sheriff pushed all of Hannity’s buttons…thinks he is incompetent, dumb, and all the rest. Funny, I loved the guy…thought he was the speaker of truth. Well, guess I do not agree with Hannity on much.

But I was fascinated by the tone of these reactions….something musta hit a very raw nerve. But all in the interest of keeping the Gov out of our business. you see?

David Dayen is upstairs!
Concealed Carrying Bystander Nearly Killed Innocent Man During Tucson Shooting

It’s not like you can’t modify the sumbitch. If little old gun-hater me can inquire of Teh Great Gazoogle and come up with this imagine what someone who actually knows something about guns can learn… (I love the disclaimer at the end…)

I gotta say that the topics of recent posts must be giving mods run for their money.

((((mods))))

In an ideal world there would be either zero or at least far fewer firearms in the U.S. However, there are already many millions of firearms in the U.S. and plenty of 10-shot and hi-cap magazines. Outright bans of firearms are about as effective as the war on the drugs. registration and licensing with required training is the path to reduce the specific “gun-ness” of firearms violence whilst not playing into the hands of the permanent police/security state block. Even more importantly, it is the extremely high levels of inequaltiy, the depths of poverty we subject people to, and the ossified class structure that inhibits social mobility that explain the breadth and depth of American violence. yes, ready access to guns matters, but it explains less of our specifically american violence than the ways in which we sort people’s life chances in the economy. Regrettably, the issue of firearms violence too often makes liberals as unthinking and knuckleheaded as the conservative right. People who are for ending the failed war on drugs but want to outright ban firearms in a country already awash in guns are as delusional as the people who think Obama is a socialist.

Semi-automatic – one round fires for each time the trigger is pulled

automatic – keeps firing as long as the trigger is held down or until the magazine/clip is emptied

I believe machine guns can be purchased legally in the US but only under special ATF licenses

Part of being Progressive is being willing to deal with the facts and adjusting your position to fit the facts when you are mistaken. As a progressive who happens to enjoy shooting sports (there are lots of us) here is some background on the AR-15. It is not an automatic “machine gun”. Each shot requires the trigger to be pulled (and yes that can be done really, really fast). As an earlier poster noted you can get a license for a fully automatic version (the venerable M-16) by passing a background check and paying a hefty license fee. The lower receiver is the part the government considers to be the actual gun. It has a serial number and in my state (Virginia) you get the usual background check to purchase it. The rest of the firearm (barrel, stock, sight, upper receiver and such) can all be purchased across the counter. Sadly the dick heads at the PSA think that glorifying rude and impolite actions by a sitting member of Congress will increase sales.

Jesus, when are we going to move on from this? Has anything else happened in the world in the past several days? How’s the economy? How’s the oil spill clean up going? How about that job market? Move the hell on.

eCahn, the difference is a semi-auto, you must pull trigger for each round fired, the gun self-loads. Auto: one hold of the trigger and the gun fires until it is out of ammo, you let trigger go, or it jams. Substantive difference not much, save for cost.

Imagine if this firm has offensive statement etched on one side, a confederate flag on the other….sales would peak!

Pretty sick: something like that firm that etches bible verse on gunsights made for US Army…under gov’t contract.

We need to call-out and hold the a**-wipes to daylight….

Machine gunz being automatic?

What is the practical diff? Can’t a semi fire almost as fast as an auto? And why are both manufactured? Seems like autos would be the only ones the ‘market’ would support.

Are they selling brown shirts to go with these guns?

The oil spill commission released their final report, faulted all firms involved, recommend overhaul of regulation. Sect. Salazar….zzzzzzzz!

The difference is how many bullets go down range on a single trigger pull. Semi-automatic means one bullet per trigger pull

Fully automatic means up to a full magazine (10- 100 bullets) with one trigger pull, typically within a few seconds. There are tactical reasons for military to need fully automatic fire in some circumstances.

Modification is illegal even if the one doing the modification is an FFL class III dealer and gun smith. Manufacturing a Class III weapon for law enforcement or military is legal, but as far as I know it needs to be done ab initio – changing out the sear in a civilian weapon to convert is is illegal (NFA registered weapons are tracked by serial number and cannot change status after initial manufacture – at least I think that’s the case).

machine gun is synonymous with fully automatic as far as definitions go.

I get that the point of this post is the absurdity of the “you lie” serial number. There’s no reason to inject falsehoods about these being automatic weapons into the post in order to do so. The only way these lower receivers could go into a fully automatic weapon is if they were purchased by police or military. (Maybe some small police department has a budget for firearms that allows them to buy these, but it would be a gross waste of taxes).

–nifty peaked hoods with eye holes

Oy, just Oy.

My native state does it again. The worst craziness I remember growing up in the 1950s was the moonshiner who used the gaslight system in a Victorian house for dispensing from a barrel located in the attic. Customer came in. He went over a gaslight, turned the stopcock and filled the customer’s Mason jar.

Well, there was the whole segregation stuff but that was more mean than crazy — at least in my “more polite” part of the state. Desegregation, when it came, came quickly – by order of the Chamber of Commerce, which saw that it was bad for economic development (i.e. corporations relocating to the area).

Judging from their location, they are not your fly-by-night guns-and-loans shop but a fairly large distributor. Sorry for that bad news.

Semi and full auto for folks who can’t aim, poor rifle skilz….

Many people like the automatics but in fact they are far more difficult to control so firing things on full auto is usually a waste of the ammunition

I didn’t re-answer the question about legal civilian purchase:

Class III weapons can be purchased by civilians by paying a $200 tax and undergoing an extensive background check (much more extensive than required for an ordinary purchase). In addition the stock of Class III weapons for civilian sale is basically static since the 1980s due to federal restrictions, which means they are very expensive.

I’ve never seen the point of them. Like I said it means more money spent on ammunition if you want to shoot it, and the only benefit is you get to hear a cool sound. Buy a recording instead.

“This” is new. It is the lead-up to the Joe Wilson State-of-the-Union Classic II. The new SuperBowl of US politics. Just instead of selling cheesehead hats, the good folks in SC have a stunning new idea.

As Chiminea said @45, these “dick heads” had a unique way of marketing for this classic rematch.

Tried the links in Huffpost and here to the firm’s website, got 404 error. Maybe they shamed underground? Or sold out?

so firing things on full auto is usually a waste of the ammunition

…which is not a problem if you are the US Army but becomes one if you are a private “hobbyist”.

Semi-auto means you don’t have to work the bolt or lever (or other action – there are breech loaders out there that require one to manually remove spent cartridge) to eject the spent cartridge and load the next one.

Aiming is a separate issue.

What of the question @4: Is use of congressional seal and congressman’s name legal by house rules?

I believe the only “action” I don’t own is a full-auto…. so understood this. Ok, no rolling-block either.

I’ve fired an AK-47. Can’t remember. Is that auto or semi-auto. Very smooth (i.e. little recoil) whichever.

I’ve read that it now takes something like 250,000 bullets for U.S. military to kill one innocent civilian (or enemy, depending on your definition). As I recall, during VN, it took only 5,000.

Progress!

I got them from the link here. The “website of the armory” link works.

Jim White @ 4. Is use of congress seal and member’s name lawful by house rules…anybody?

Maybe that’s why the site is down?

Still not working, maybe my O.S.-Vista.

Jihadist of a different sort

Note the story, concern dismissed because it comes from a non-christian source!

The Glock 18, the fully-automatic pistol (AFAIK not available in the US, it’s sold to police forces in Europe) that the 33 round absurdly-long magazine the guy used in the attack was designed for, reportedly cycles at 1100-1300 rounds per minute, which is roughly 20 rounds per second. That’s what the long mag is for, it gives you a second and a half before it’s dry, versus three-quarters of a second for the regular mag. Pulling the trigger manually you can maybe squeeze off 2-3 rounds per second, without taking any time to aim.

So the answer to “what’s the difference” is roughly a factor of ten in the fire rate. Also known at the rate at which you run out of ammo.

So Loughner could have killed 10X as many as he did had he a fully automatic gun?

Heh. Looks like they took it down. Good thing I got the screen shots.

Rate of fire does not equal number of hits. There’s a little thing called “aiming”, and another called “running out of ammo”. You asked what the difference is, and I answered.

A fully automatic gun (fired in automatic mode) would have resulted in fewer deaths most likely. If Congresswoman Gifford was the first victim she’d have had 10-20 bullets fired at her on full auto and she would almost certainly have been killed. But the magazine would have been empty before he could shoot others.

AK-47s can be semi-auto or automatic. If it was owned by a civilian it was most likely semi-auto, legally owned fully auto AK-47s are both rare and expensive in the US. The low recoil is due to the cartridge – 7.62×39 fires a heavy bullet at relatively low velocity due to the low amount of propellant possible in the short cartridge.

Also since this clown probably had never fired a full-auto, most of the rounds would have sprayed into the air. But Gifford would definitely have taken multiple hits and not survived.

Yup. Title 18, Chapter 33 Section 713 (scroll waaay down):

(a) Whoever knowingly displays any printed or other likeness of
the great seal of the United States, or of the seals of the
President or the Vice President of the United States, or the seal
of the United States Senate, or the seal of the United States House
of Representatives, or the seal of the United States Congress, or
any facsimile thereof, in, or in connection with, any
advertisement, poster, circular, book, pamphlet, or other
publication, public meeting, play, motion picture, telecast, or
other production, or on any building, monument, or stationery, for
the purpose of conveying, or in a manner reasonably calculated to
convey, a false impression of sponsorship or approval by the
Government of the United States or by any department, agency, or
instrumentality thereof, shall be fined under this title or
imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

Pretty blatant law-breaking.

Would someone explain to me why a person would need this kind of weapon? You certainly wouldn’t use it for hunting. You could only use it to kill people and we have no laws against it. How sick.

Last I checked we do have laws against killing people.

Is that supposed to be funny?

Looks like the owners took the site down.

Appears to be the standard fundraising photo with computer-generated name. Doesn’t look like Joe Wilson is in trouble, but the business owner might be.

He’s standing with the owner of the company, holding the product and has the seal adjacent. Yes, the business owner should be in a heap of trouble. Wilson, sadly, will only raise a few more million bucks from the rich reactionaries because we DFH’s are attacking him for no reason again.

Fully auto weapons have a tactical use in the military. I really don’t see the need for police to have them, when they do they are essentially a para-military auxiliary and historically para-military organizations are a sign of an incipient police state.

They aren’t generally legally available to civilians – there are some that were owned by civilians and have been legally transferred to other civilians. At a guess the total number is under 200,000. Typically they are owned by collectors because their scarcity and registration requirements mean the average gun owner can’t afford to purchase them, and to fire them means spending a lot of money on ammunition.

There is an exception to this – some are leased/loaned for special events to allow enthusiasts the chance to fire them. The tasteless campaign event by Congresswoman Gifford’s opponent being an example of this.

I’ve mentioned a few times that the sound of a fully auto weapon has appeal to some enthusiasts, and they could play a recording while taking target practice as a cheaper alternative.

I’ve never fired a fully automatic weapon. I suppose it would have some novelty value – I can see paying a fee to fire a clip full auto on a range at some point just to have had the experience. never have done so though and it doesn’t have enough personal appeal that I’ve made an effort to do so.

Thanks. I’m trying to understand why anyone would want one of these weapons. I’m sure they’re expensive and maybe that’s the bragging rights. I think it is truly sick to even have one.

I doubt they would have the competence for such a thing. From personal experience with the ATF, their incompetence and clusterfuckery is stunning (phone numbers that lead nowhere, issuance of incorrect forms, ignorant operatives, etc.). I would not recommend deferring to the ATF for anything, let alone safety or regulation. Although they do seem to keep themselves funded.

My guess is that if we locate and fix the issues of fear, unhappiness and loss of community in US culture, we won’t be having discussions on gun violence.

AR-15s, a civilian version of the military’s M-16, typically run between $1000 and $2000. While you can target shoot and technically hunt with them, they appeal to a particularly . . . exuberant niche of gun owners.

“When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a bible”

-Sinclair Lewis

Hello fascism

We are living in bizarro-world. There cannot be any other explanation. I’d like to get back to the parallel universe I once lived in.

I cannot begin to express how sickened I am at the absolute babble I’ve read here today. The fact that a majority of you people see no reason why anyone should be allowed to own an assault rifle is ridiculous. The scary thing is that most of you would gladly see a day when no American is allowed to own a firearm. I am not some crazy Confederate flag waving person from the south. I am someone who grew up in Southern California my entire life. I grew up watching gun crimes everyday on the news, listening to police sirens at night in response to shooting and gang violence. It’s funny, with all the new gun legislation and laws, gun crimes are still increasing even as the restrictions on them get tighter. Maybe it has something to do with the little fact that criminals and crazy people couldn’t care less about gun legislation and which laws get passed! Maybe the reason why these crimes are continuing to increase is due in part to the fact that these criminals are more aware that the general public no longer owns many firearms which makes them a much easier, defenseless, target. I know one thing, a gun toting crazy or criminal would be a lot more apprehensive about attacking their next target if they new there was a much better chance they were armed. If more people in the state of Arizona had a concealed carry permit, only one person would have died, and it would have been the crazy 22 year-old.

If you took the time to read this, thank you. Hopefully I at least made one person think, “Hey, maybe the guns aren’t the problem?”