The face of a murderer (alleged, of course).

Of course, all thats being discussed ATM in MSM is the “need” to rachet up the police state.

Based on early descriptions I’m getting the impression this attack was more likely inspired by mental illness than a political agenda. Could be wrong but his reading list didn’t contain the usual (right-wing) suspects. Rants about government mind control and brainwashing suggest he could be a paranoid schizophrenic.

On the other hand I saw an unconfirmed report that police are seeking a 2nd and 3rd suspect, which of course implies a conspiracy.

I would think that the only action that needs to be and should be taken at this point is expanding the FBI or Capitol Police by 2,000 and give each Representative and Senator three guards each………..

I just posted the YouTube clip over at Digby’s. 30 seconds after I put it up, they took it down. Must have been the guy.

The YouTube videos that people are attributing to him certainly give the impression that they’re the work of of a disturbed mind.

“…is the need to ratchet up the police state.”

Always.

Also:

“He was killed while campaigning for gun control, which means that we all need to walk around strapped.”

Just back from the “introduction” to Jared Loughner on YouTube – to say “it’s quite strange” is an understatement.
At first it was just odd – talks about inventing languages – almost quit before the end – but then he begins talking about “you call me a terrorist,” you can make your own currency, “I don’t trust the government,”, something about the constititution and “treasonous laws.”

He may have some mental illness, but that doesn’t mean his act wasn’t political. If this video is really the shooter’s, then I think we can conclude his murders were political.

And, if you hadn’t heard, the U.S.District Judge Roll, who was a hate target for his ruling on an immigration-related case, has died.

And I don’t hear Jan Brewer, now on my screen, recognizing that hate speech needs by her party needs to be stopped.

Yeah. If the videos are genuine, they don’t seem so much political as paranoid.

There were, Steve. Foil-hat stuff…except, “Let the bodies hit the floor”, over and over, was pretty unequivocal.

“Wasn’t there something about “You’ll know in two days”?

ratfood – (where you have been, man? We worried about you last Caturday)–

you’re probably right, which makes my comment at 7 likely wrong, but I think we can still say he may have been “provoked” to action by the rants of people like Glenn Beck, constantly calling Democrats traitors, all those who talk about taking “out” any public figure with whom they disagree.
Obviously, we don’t know enough to make that conclusion yet.

My impression after watching the videos (I couldn’t make it all the way through either of them) is that this guy is more like the Columbine shooter than a political assassin. Because of the victim(s) and the venue (a political event), we’re tagging it as a take-down for political reasons — and it may not be. It may just be a nut with a gun.

Edit to add: of which there are far too many — nuts and guns.

SarahPAC has taken down their site with the list of targeted politicians with the gunsight images over their districts. I got a series of screenshots this morning.

AZ is proud to display that they are an Open Carry state. Remember that charade during the 2008 campaign when Obama talked in AZ. A bunch of milita men and gun nuts paraded their Big Metal Dicks in front of the candidate? And the Secret Service had to appoint two people to supervise one of them – lest his civil rights be limited by the marxist-islamist-soc ialist-nazi black man. That was a fun day, wonder if the Secret Service will do that again?

Still gonna organize that demonstration, ET?

I’m curious if he was a member of the NRA. Of course, if he was, we may never know.

Molly, that was mine, too.

But he had friends and a social group that he hung out with.

I still want to hear about those and about any memberships.

That’s true, of course, but he chose THIS group with a member of Congress and a Federal Judge. Hard to believe that something political was not going on in his head.

Watch the guy’s Youtube page.

He’s crazy, possibly schizophrenic.

Also has this information:
Jared Loughner
Has worked at Child Protective Services
Studied at Pima Community College
Lives in Tucson, Arizona

Education and Work
Employers •
Child Protective Services

________________________________________
College •
Pima Community College

________________________________________
High School •
Mountain View High School
Class of 2006

Basic Information
About Jared
Love hunting trolls and children, I want to be a woman one day…

Most people just don’t seem to understand me, but I’m gonna prove to you all how wrong you are…

My favorite interest was reading, and I studied grammar. Conscience dreams were a great study in college!

Fools who don’t understand the law are bound to suffer under it!
________________________________________
Sex Male
________________________________________
Interested In Men

he could be a paranoid schizophrenic

The paranoia would preclude the person from acting like this on his own. It would not prevent his being manipulated to commit a crime, especially if he were influenced by drugs.

I had a friend who was diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. I witnessed the progression over a period of years from mildly eccentric teen to fully delusional adult. This young man’s statements sound very similar to me. It is sad.

A schizophrenic person’s statements might contain political references but it’s not the same as those of person in control of their thoughts and actions.

ET, was Judge Roll one of those targeted in AZ?

How quickly we go to the “deranged lone nut” theory. Here’s my bet: in the coming weeks, months and years, it will be clear that this was the result of a carefully planned conspiracy and media outlets avoided going there.

“Interested in men”…

Well, that’s that, he did it because he was a homicidal “queer”.

You go, FoxNews! :o(

What’s the difference between a Glenn Beck blackboard rant and what this suspect ranted?

The CIA claims they did mind control experiments in the 60′s. Might have been a cover for CIA torture research, but that doesn’t matter much. The CIA does claim it.

on the other, other hand, you admonished me earier about conspiracy thories and I responded about what I was taking about. You didn’t respond. I thought we talked to each other. Tell me why I shoudh read your comments.

The paranoia would preclude the person from acting like this on his own.

Disagree. Not all paranoid schizophrenics are violent but certainly some are. The paranoia tends to provoke a flight or fight response.

“…something political going on in his head.”

True.

But there’s a bottom-line:

another mentally deranged person had no trouble getting his hands on a deadly firearm.

You’re right, of course.

His youtube channel gives me the impression he’s been planning this – all the posts are recent, within a month, at the longest.

I wonder if, assuming the diagnosis is correct, if it began recently; he’s young, and schizophrenia so often develops in late adolescence or early adulthood. Had he been diagnosed, this tragedy might have been averted.

Why do you take everything personally? I had chores to do and walked away from the computer. No conspiracy to dis you, I promise. :)

Through his head? Has it already been determined that this person with obvious psychotic symptoms was working alone?

We’re within minutes of the first media report describing the assassin as “a loner.”

Guaranteed.

ratfood… stop paying jailhouse psychiatrist. You’re no doctor.

There’s no more evidence suggesting the suspect was a paranoid schizophrenic then there is Glenn Beck is a paranoid schizophrenic.

Winger, ‘bagger, eliminationist, nutjob. The right wing owns this. Period.

The Judge was in the wrong place at the wrong time. He happened to live nearby and strolled over to say hello.
The coverage on MSNBC has been pathetically sloppy. thomas roberts MIS reported the congresswoman’s wound to be in the back of the head when the physician said it was a ‘through and through to the temple’.
mike viquiera has at least three times referred to people being ‘mortified’ in reacting to the incident.

I am sharing my house with someone who has that diagnosis. The delusional state makes executing simple tasks almost impossible. It is a stretch to believe that a complicated mass execution could be carried out by one acting alone.

Am I just being paranoid or are you attempting to deny me freedom of expression?

I was offering my impression, not a diagnosis. Get over it.

It would be interesting to match his profile with Sirhan Sirhan’s.

Well, isn’t that nice. Since, You are the one who took my comment to One Other Commeter personally.
Rat. You can make me the bad guy. Hands up. Go for up.

Folks, because the man was obviously disturbed doesn’t mean that the violent rhetoric coming from the right is blameless in this. People sometimes need a nudge and there are plenty to be had from that direction. There’s no debate that he’s deranged, I think. Sane people don’t do shit like this.

If this is a conspiracy, the shtick they’ve created, with that YouTube clip, was very well done. Just the right amount of incoherent rambling and foil-hattery about mind-control, etc., coupled with the chilling “let the bodies hit the floor” over and over, and his “reading list”.

All of it pointing right at some kind of crazy geek, capped off with the “interested in men”, tag.

I hear sighs of relief bubbling up from the rightwing cesspools.

Paranoia and politics are not mutually exclusive categories. One can surely be politically motivated and paranoid. If one subtracted the politically motivated and paranoid folk from the GOP, it would not have much of a base afterward!

There are varying degrees of impairment. Anyway, the act might be no more complicated than opening fire in a crowded room. All we really know is that it is tragic, the rest is conjecture for now.

Okay, then, someone’s head. Someone had this thought. It seems that the police have picked up another person and are looking for a third. Sounds like a conspiracy to me – IF that’s the case. IF!

It’s not about you, really.

I didn’t realize you were having a private conversation in a public forum. So sorry to have intruded.

False dichotomy. He picked out THIS event out the the many random Tucson area shopping plaza parking lots that would have likewise have been full of people. No coincidence whatsoever that this woman was in Sarah Palin’s very public “crosshairs.” I wouldn’t bet money that it was just coincidental.

Calling someone “out of control” “acting nutty” is offering your opinion.

“Paranoid schizophrenic” is a medical diagnosis you are not trained to give.

Sane people aren’t easily manipulated. Delusional people are. If anyone wanted to provoke an incident with a patsy, a delusional person would be the first choice.

“What’s the difference between a Glenn Beck blackboard rant and…”

The peckerhead rants are much easier to understand. They HAVE to be.

How many teapartiers do you think have read the books that Laughton had on his “admired” list? :o)

You got it…did you ever try to follow one of those paranoid rants…did you see the one with the puppets. Jon Stewart pegged it when he did it. But I truly believe Beck is mentally unstable and ill.

If there are others involved, the trail up has to be followed while the tracks are still warm and before there are mysterious “accidents” to those involved.

Yes. I said that though without the conspiratorial overtones. Not saying you’re wrong at all, I don’t have enough information but I think we’re in agreement that sane people don’t do shit like this.

Sarah Palin statement below

“Palin then contended that Obama was “purposefully weakening America because he understood that debt weakens America.”

We many not agree with Obama on a lot of things, but to suggest he trying to hurt the USA on purpose is dangerous.

Nice. Sorry you’re feeling so bad. It’s not about me, in any way.
Honey, I just made a Devil’d Food cake, but, I’m guessing you don’t want any cake or anything else from me.
Take care, in any event.

All people are easily manipulated. That’s why people are called sheep and a guy like Hitler could come to power in Germany

The shooter’s high school classmate Twittered the following:

caitieparker Caitie Parker @ @lakarune I haven’t seen him since ’07. Then, he was left wing.

caitieparker Caitie Parker @ @antderosa As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy.

Paraphrasing FDR, there is nothing that happens in government that is not planned. This shooting was not an act of nature. Committing murder is a serious, deliberate act. There was planning, and a paranoid schizophrenic is incapable of doing that.

the right wing nut jobs have nothing to do with this,sure,,,,,cnn just said mein kamp is his favorite book and he is worried about the amero taking place of the dollar,,I agree,,its only moments before he is treated like tim mcvey,,a loner, another sham

Sane people could as well, if they were drugged.

What’s up with the non-conspiracy caveat? Are there minders here who are issuing demerits for the use of “improper” words?

People believe all kinds of crazy crap for no more reason than they think their neighbors agree with it too.

“Paranoid schizophrenic” is a medical diagnosis you are not trained to give.

Saying someone might be schizophrenic is also offering an opinion, albeit unqualified. I am deeply honored you have deigned to define my apparent inadequacy. Bless you.

the GOP open up a Pandora Box of Horror.

I doubt if the founding fathers of the USA meant for freedom of speech to be used to the detriment of the USA by people like Rush, Gleen Back, the entire FOX line up.

Right. Matter of fact, they are NEVER, EVER right wing nuts. That’s an impossibility in America.

Really. I don’t take it personaly. I’m not stupid. I do realize this is a communal format. When I replied to Molly, I took this format that was what is was.
Sorry to bother you. No cake for you.
ps, on edit, you did hurt my feelings.

the mentally unbalanced are far easier for Sarah,and Glenn to influence
they all speak the same language….stoopit lying bullshitte

How many teapartiers do you think have read the books that Laughton had on his “admired” list? :o)

But:

Wanda: [after Otto breaks in on Wanda and Archie in Archie's flat and hangs him out the window] I was dealing with something delicate, Otto. I’m setting up a guy who’s incredibly important to us, who’s going to tell me where the loot is and if they’re going to come and arrest you. And you come loping in like Rambo without a jockstrap and you dangle him out a fifth-floor window. Now, was that smart? Was it shrewd? Was it good tactics? Or was it stupid?

Otto West: Don’t call me stupid.

Wanda: Oh, right! To call you stupid would be an insult to stupid people! I’ve known sheep that could outwit you. I’ve worn dresses with higher IQs. But you think you’re an intellectual, don’t you, ape?

Otto West: Apes don’t read philosophy.

Wanda: Yes they do, Otto. They just don’t understand it. Now let me correct you on a couple of things, OK? Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not “Every man for himself.” And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked them up.

I, too went to Jared’s YouTube postings and I ‘recognized’ some of these incoherent rants. My brother was schizophrenic, and it sounded just like him when he was off his meds. Conspiracies everywhere, especially government related, and it is NEVER that the government is on your side.

The government is the enemy because they can control your thoughts, etc. That’s really why this right-wing lunacy can spur people on. It reinforces their delusions. Remember Bachmann and her ‘The census is a way for the government to get at you’ crappola? Right up a schizos alley and confirmation that they are right. It’s a very dangerous game the right is playing.

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your mind it will creep
It starts when you’re always afraid
Step outta line, the man comes and takes you away…

Why the defensive posture? I was aqreeing with you. I think you need some help too.

betcha the uber wealthy Kock boys are gleeful today,the blood of liberty (9 year old little girl) was spilled

True, but pulling a gun out and executing a group of people at point-blank range is a different ball game, and political assassinations are the World Series. Murder is not a trivial crime. You need to work up to it, unless of course you were stoned out of your mind.

It is alleged by some that Sirhan Sirhan was stoned on scopolamine.

Sure. Because those three would have responded with their weapons about 5seconds after his semi-automatic was emptied, which takes about 5 seconds. Ever notice how Second Amendment rights are always exercised in offense of life and liberty and not in defense of life and liberty?

Gov. Brewer says she is just heartbroken. I have nothing else to say.

Fake tweets apparently according to Siun.

yup,hey are so inclined to begin with,its a nasty recipe

“Cnn just said “Main Kampf” is his favorite book.”

Just like those jerks to leave out the rest of Laughton’s list, including Orwell’s indictments of totalitarian government and that terrible piece of left-wing hate-mongering travel, “The Odyssey”

People are afraid to go.

I suppose this moron shooting Giffords because of paranoia and random mindless bs makes about as much sense as him having shot her because of the nonsense that comes out of people like Cantor, Palin and Beck.

Btw, it’s interesting that the debates have been set up in such a way that there’s no way to fight for or stand up for real progressive positions…

impossible,she is a heartless female Cheney

Odds are he is crazy and his politics are irrelevant.

yes they do!

what makes FOX dangerous, is the fact they pretend to be a real NEWS NETWORK.

I doubt if any other sane nation on the planet earth would allow a FOX NEWS type of PHONY NEWS NETWORK on their air waves.

FOX NEWS makes crazy ideas normal. (Global Warming it is not real, Fox News has already gotten one abortion doctor killed)

If RUSSIA or IRAN on FOX NEWS it would be a call a terror organization

Nytol? oy

But, of course, she’s expressing her “condolences”. What a Janess-faced Beeyotch.
I’m sure some people just can’t take the hate and it pushes them over the edge whether or not they have a mental Illness.
I was fairly friendly with a guy who hated Bush and was waiting for the Muslims to attack the US and take out the republicans and the Christains.
He finally couldn’t wait anymore and murdered 5 people. He was/is paranoid schizophrenic.
Very sad. His doc took him off hi meds and was trying eye exercises on him and he just….blew.

I totally disagree.

9 year old girl? Missed that. Have a link?

one does NOT preclude the other,a crazy political violent thug

The first story out is always wrong. Watch this unfold…

He lists Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto as among his favorites.

He’s mentally ill and will probably spend the rest of his life in a treatment facility.

Can you give it a rest for once? No need for noise.

Someone can be politically motivated or psychologically unsound, but, as long as guns are so incredibly available in this country, there will be countless episodes like this. I know the hopeless Republicans will never support any curb, but the long-standing silence of the Democrats speaks to their complete political cowardice and lack of leadership.

Congresswoman Giffords in Critical Condition, 9 yr old child dies …‎
ShortNews.com – 1 hour ago

The latest news is that a 9 year old child has died from injuries in todays shooting. Congresswoman Giffords was shot in the head.

There’s also more bullet holes at the scene of RFK’s assassination than the gun Sirhan Sirhan could hold.

The state of Arizona is bankrupt to the point where she had to sell off the state office buildings. This event surely is not going to generate a bolus of tourist dollars to the state. That might be the reason for the tears.

What are his politics? From listening to him and reading his “likes”, he does not come across as a right winger.

what makes me mad, is on monday, every one will ignore the main problem

people like the Kock Boys should be called out and brought before the people.

because the Kock Boys may have not have pull the trigger, but they did help plant the thought that led to today’s shooting and killing in AZ.

Ballistics expert or did you just offer an unqualified opinion?

If they’re able to harrass elderly Quaker peace activists in Pennsylvania, their fear is not unfounded.

This became an assassination investigation the moment the Federal judge died.

Please stop calling it a shooting.

Whether she knows it or not, Brewer’s lucky that this moron acted out of stupidity and random paranoia.

Inevitably, less mindless types will embrace those 2nd Amendment remedies.

Oh shit.

he is a gold bug/freak….ala Proffesor Beck

OH, puhleez. Only a few short hours since the shooting and already we have conspiracy theories and two people I respect arguing with each other.

Are we all on edge today? Can’t we just discuss this like adults and hold our fire until we actually KNOW something?

I don’t think it is all that uncommon for the police to fan out after an awful thing like this and round up a few people in the vicinity for questioning. That doesn’t mean Loughner had cohorts, or that it is a conspiracy involving multiple people.

Finally, I suggest that we don’t all know what each others’ qualifications to diagnose are — except that no good psychiatrist would make a diagnosis based on news outlets’ wild speculation coupled with bizarre YouTube videos, so could we quit insulting each other?

/rant

6 people have died i believe…..sad sad day in Crazy Murka

“Paranoid schizophrenic” is a medical diagnosis you are not trained to give.

Exactly how do you know that? Are you personally acquainted with ratfood?

Umm, will probably regret this – but – how do you know he isn’t qualified to give an opinion on this subject? Do you know ratfood’s background? He might be a retired psychoanalyist, or even a forensic pscyhiatrist for all you know. AFAIK.

Acoustical analysis. Also, John Pilger was in the kitchen at the time of the shooting. He claimed he heard more shots than were in the chamber of Sirhan’s weapon.

Bless you too. B word.

Giffords isn’t dead.

the federal judge is

I agree with msmolly – it’s been a rough day, let’s all try to be a bit nicer to each other. Arguments for the sake of arguments are not helping.

As I said before, many, many schizophrenics see the Government as the source of evil. The FEMA concentration camps, the census conspiracy, one world government, giving the US back to the Indians, reparations…all these right wing conspiracy theories confirm what the schizo already KNOWS is true and he feels it’s his duty to do something about it. The right gins up their crowd with things they patently know are not true with never, ever the thought of the dire consequences that can happen. If Michelle Bachmann and Glenn Beck and their ilk continue with their rhetoric after this and the News Media ignore it now, then they are co-conspirators as far as I am concerned.

What’s your beverage, tejan, I owe ya one.

Ah, name calling? Nice.

Thanks Molly. I admit it would be an unqualified opinion even if I were trained since I’ve had no contact with the suspect.

The commenter to whom you replied appears predisposed to quibble over semantics. It’s a hobby, I suppose.

we are all rattled again,and of course are media is so beneath the task

Molly, the response of the Dallas police department in ’63 is well known. There were many breaches of procedure, on orders from higher up. The Tuscon police cannot be expected to perform their routine investigation if there is outside interference.

I cannot locate the link, but in the 1980s a young woman diagnosed as schizophrenic shot and killed a number of people in an outdoors location in Philadelphia. There was no political motivation; the young woman involved was deeply mentally ill and acted out. Her mother was involved in writing a heart-felt article for the Sunday NYT Magazine back then being heartsick at the loss of life.

This young man may be deeply mentally ill; time will tell. If so, it’s not axiomatic that there’s some kind of conspiracy or others involved goading him on. Sometimes events like this do “just happen” as sad and sickening as that is.

The bigger point, which a number of comments here have expressed, is the fairly easy access to guns and other weapons in this nation, plus a generally violent culture growing ever more incendiary.

It *appears* that this young man may not have had the slightest political motivation, but our nation IS violent. It glorifies violence a lot of time in numerous ways. THAT is more to the point.

Sadly, I don’t see anything changing.

My condolences to all concerned.

spot on. i think they were hoping to get a nutter to go round the bend

Points taken. To a point.

One thing we DO know with certainty. A congresswoman in Sarah Palin’s very public “crosshairs” was shot. Not some other randomly chosen woman at shopping center X.

You’re right. I don’t want to argue with those many nice people here. I’m gone. Wanted to for a long time. But, obviously, it’s time to go It’s been fun, Molly. Bye.

I know, I’ve read the claims. I also know conspiracy theories are a cottage industry. I don’t accept or dismiss the theories. As is often the case with such events I don’t believe we’ll ever know what happened with any degree of certainty.

With respect, this is crap. I lived through 1963. There may be unanswered questions but I truly get weary of the conspiracy theories. Sometimes it’s just a cigar, to borrow a phrase.

I seriously doubt that the right wingers are at each others throats this afternoon over this tragedy. Aren’t we better than this?

I am with you.

Amen (metaphorically speaking – I don’t pray). The Columbine shootings come to mind.

Heartbroken Governor Brewer previously signed AZ law allowing concealed carry of weapons without a permit.

Outrageous and stupid….

cheers to you Demi and your angel food cake. be well.

You are right, but I must step up to say that the mentally ill have seen the gov’t as conspiring against them for many years now. It’s NOT at all a recent development. I work in the public sector, where we “deal” with the homeless and mentally ill a lot. I am not trained as a social worker but because of the numbers of mentally ill that we have to work with daily, we do get training from social workers on how to work with them.

The paranoia about the govt being out “to get” them is a very very common thread for many mentally ill. It goes way back when, and they used to think it was the govt “reading their minds” via radio waves, or the early satellites and such. Or they think that their teeth fillings are radio receptors, and that’s where the “voices in their heads” are coming from.

My heart goes out to the mentally ill, and probably also this young man, because their disturbances are profound. But those with these types of mental illnesses all tend to have similar paranoias about the “government.”

I would discount conspiracy theories for the time being. Plus I would discount that the current state of our govt is any more inciting this stuff than at any other period of time.

My point is that access to weapons IS the big difference. Some mentally ill are prone to violence. It’s too easy to get weapons anymore. That’s more to the point, imo.

Aw, ya beat me to it this time..was just about to type the same to you.
I’ll take a hot mulled cider, please – it’s acting somewhat like winter even here in So. Texas.

McVeigh, Palin, Oswald, Beck, Dobbs, Limbaugh and now Loughner…..peas in a pod.

I really don’t think this proves political motivation. It could be that the shooter just wanted to go out in a blaze of publicity and knew this would be the ticket to whatever fame his deluded brain craved.

I think we have to just wait and see.

Or I might be just a mildly eccentric hermit nursing a reconstructed toe while spoiling a small parrot. Yeah, THAT’S the ticket! “g”

how come 3? why not 10?

A random killing by a delusional person are in the realm of possibility. A Political assassination is not.

We’ll able to tell a lot from the manner in which the investigation is carried out.

Ah Ha ! It’s you. :)

18 here, windchill 5. Not supposed to get really cold until tonight.

5:15, I should probably seize the day. Wishing a splendid evening to all.

Why do you believe a political assassination impossible?

I never said it “proves” anything. And, I rather doubt that this cat is gonna go all Tim McVeigh and proudly proclaim his specific motivation.

it’s acting somewhat like winter even here in So. Texas.

Well it certainly is doing more here than “acting somewhat like winter” since we’ve had anywhere from 14 – 24 inches of snow since yesterday morning, with still more forecast for tonight.

Hot cider comin’ at you through the toobz.

How are the toe and the spoiled parrot, btw? We missed you at Caturday last week, and in a momentary worst-case-scenario of the imagination, I pictured your toe having gotten infected and gone gangrenous and, and, well, you know. And I thought…poor Bob!

Just letting you know…you were the last straw.

Please tell everybody in California I said “Hi.” :)

I still love ya, hon.

(((demi)))

Exactly. Those Columbine students were bullied. They saw violence being glorified in computer games and elsewhere, plus the idea of wreaking havoc in revenge is also romaticized and glorified in our culture. Those young students also got weapons far too easily. There was no conspiracy involved, nor was the “gov’t” involved in “inciting” them to violence.

We live in a violent world. Our nation/culture/Hollywood/the media all glorify and romanticize violence, which is often presented as a “viable” means to an end. Kids are encouraged to prepare to go to War, Inc, to kill kill kill thru violent video games, which I see advertised before the movie comes on at the movie theater.

It’s not that “odd” this likely disturbed young man turned to violence.

HOW did he get the weapon is the main question.

And then: WHAT kind of mental health *care* was he getting, if any at all? Or did he/his family not have access to (enough) health care???

I am speculating — speculating — that he figured he’d get taken down and wanted to go out in a blaze of “glory.”

My speculation and a buck-fifty will get you a cup of coffee.

I may not get around to ALL of them for a couple of weeks but will certainly pass your message along.

Oh, my. Please, have your own hot cider, too – sounds like you (and maybe ratfood, too) need it more than I!

Did you read “Columbine”? The motivation for the shootings was not what the media claimed. I don’t recall the details and I gave the book to my daughter to read, but it is fascinating if you haven’t read it.

Thanks, just been hunkered in the bunker. Toe is pretty good. I see the surgeon next Thursday for the 6-week check. Expecting him to tell me I can return to wearing shoes on both feet (yay!).

I wondered about that when I noticed his 3rd YouTube was label something like “Final tape.” But, of course, that’s a leap on my part.

The mentally ill have lots of delusions, but it is also a monumental task for them to get out of bed in the morning. Carrying out a political assassination requires an enormous amount of motivation. Between the two, there is the small matter of an ocean to be crossed.

and yet how could it not be political? He shot a democratic congresswoman and a federal judge! the judge had already been the target of local talk radio hate campaign and well, we’ve seen sarahs’ PAC website with the targets all over them. If a criminal is payed to kill a politician by a rival politcal is it not a political crime? If schizophrenics are being induced to murder “treasonous” politicians is that not also political? and maybe, the you tube vid is not “authentic” in the sense that it (conveniently) portrays an apparently paranoid lone indicdual. if this guy dosent wind up dead the trial should be edifying.(if there is one)

With respect, I disagree, as we know next to nothing about Loughner. IMO, I wouldn’t “categorize” Loughner in any way until I know more about him.

Good, good – hope you can tolerate warm socks, given your weather. *g*

And, what might bring this particular person to his attention? “Crosshairs”?

C’mon, demi. Don’t go away mad, please? We need your pleasant voice around here when the political wrangling gets too overwhelming and the Obama bashing gets too much even for me.

Oops, my statement taken out of context meant the opposite of my intent. The context was, a political assassination by a delusional person acting alone is not within the realm of possiblity.

Yeah… you are gonna regret this.

I’m a person with Huntington’s Disease, a genetic brain disorder. I get real fucking tired of every other asshole on an internet message board suddenly sprouting a licence to practice medicine every time there some incident in the news that has some medical aspect.

The odds some random person hold a medical license are real low. The odds someone with a medical license would spout off on a internet message board with no tests or evidence in hand are almost non-existant. Doctors and nurse and other health science professionals are trained not to spout off without having some kind of evidence/test results in hand.

We had a lot of rain about 10 days ago that got rid of the foot of snow accumulated during December. Got an inch or so last night, which is a lot easier to cope with. Poor Molly, I’m glad that one missed us.

It wasn’t a ‘complicated mass execution’.
It was attempted murder of the congressperson, plus shooting of random other people present, including a child who died.

I’m gonna opt for a couple of glasses of wine later. I just began a free trial of Netflix and my first movie is on deck for tonight. And maybe some popcorn.

As I noted before, my brother was schizophrenic and the government was the enemy, as in so many cases. Actually, since he came back from Vietnam loony-tunes (he wouldn’t mind my calling him that), he may have been right. I’m being facetious.

I disagree that the rhetoric has not changed. I have never seen so many right-wing crazies whipping up people against the government. Fox News and their hired nutjobs are a fairly new phenomenon. And Glenn Beck and Michelle Bachmann and their type are on a whole different level. When a US Congressperson accuses the census of being a government conspiracy, when she says other Congress persons should be investigated for being unAmerican, when a person can advance a theory of concentration camps for those disagreeing with the government and not pulled from the air…we are in the middle of the schizos’ world and it’s a dangerous business.

Molly may be right..we may be getting ahead of ourselves in this one instance, but it does not detract from the FACT that the far right-wing’s rhetoric is dangerous. I know it’s dangerous because I viewed first-hand what a schizophrenic ‘sees’ when presented with conspiracies.

The headline reads “Giffords shooter,” not “Judge shooter.”

With respect, I disagree. As I stated previously, I work in the public sector and see many profoundly mentally disturbed individuals on a regular basis. Many do not have problems getting out of bed in the morning. Many are quite energetic, in fact.

You *may* be confusing depression with other forms of mental illnesses. Many mentally ill are delusional, but you might be surprised to learn that you often cannot “tell” just by looking at them. And they function rather well in terms of getting around, dressing, eating, etc. It’s only when you start to talk to them that you begin to realize that there’s many problems, to say the least.

Those that have anger-management issues can be quite frightening. It has nothing to do with the government or even the rightwing media.

What did they do to your toe, ratfood? If you mentioned it I must have missed it. Hope you are on the mend.

One thing I’ve noticed as I have been peeking in on this tragedy from time to time, is just how many people don’t give a shit about the people who died, except as a possible fuel or extinguisher for their narcissism.

This is true across the political spectrum: left, right, and center.

My former teacher was gunned down in Omaha’s school shooting the other day.

It was the first time one of these media-fueled spectacles involved someone I knew and loved.

I just wonder where we are headed.

Crap. Killing can be deliberately planned (‘cold-blooded murder’), spur of the moment (usually referred to as a ‘crime of passion’: someone just blew up and grabbed what was handy), or completely accidental.

I think we’re mostly on the same page. I completely agree with you about the tenor and incendiary nature of rightwing rhetoric. If nothing else, it certainly doesn’t *help* in terms of people with mentall illness.

My point, though, is that some mentally ill people are prone to violence anyway, and the concept that the gov’t is somehow exerting undue influence over them (oftentimes they believe that the govt is controlling them) is a very old concept going back into the mists of time. It’s not a recent phenomenon.

There’s no one who decries the rightwing noise machine more than me. But still… we need more info before we “decide” what happened, imo.

The comment you referred to was just the token tribute that has to be paid to the minders.

Very true, if there is a trail from Jared up a winding path, he will be controlled in prison with “medication” so that trail is not remembered.

excellent call!

Did Bob try for your tow, or was it some other cause for reconstruction?

In the context of “assassination” it would seem shooting a judge is assassination even if he was just accidentally in the line of fire. Something else we won’t know for awhile, since he won’t be able to tell us why he was there.

At least I *think* that was sadlyyes’s point.

But I sorta think this thread is degenerating and dinner is looking more inviting by the minute.

No, haven’t read “Columbine.” I should check into it at some point. Just saw the documentary that Michael Moore did. I know that a lot misinformation was out there, to say the least. It’s easy to get carried away, as this post is proving… just saying…

I broke it pretty badly in the mid ’80s and had trouble ever since. After I was diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis in the late ’90s it became really deformed. For the past 7 years or so walking has been very painful. The surgeon set it in a more natural position and fused the second joint.

I know it’s a really minor affliction in the grand scheme of things but I think the correction will have a significant impact on my quality of life. Looking forward to being able to walk more.

Murder itself is complicated, requiring an enormous building up of the mental state to commit an extremely unnatural act. Delusional people are unable to mount the obstacles to that, unless they are drugged and guided.

Agree about the thread degenerating. Some interesting points have been made, but perhaps we all need to take the proverbial deep cleansing breath and wait a while before making up our minds about “what happened.”

Palin did develop a map with “cross hair symbols” targeting dems

I think the GOP knowingly plays with fire.

Re schizophrenic diagnosis: I have worked with schizophrenic individuals, and most are quite afraid of the world, and are far more likely to be victims than victimizers. However, there are a small minority whose delusions have led them to commit crimes.

I am a licensed psychologist and from afar, and am not in the position to diagnose Mr. Loughner. However, one can make some initial impressionistic comments based upon the video content he posted on YouTube. The autistic, in the sense of highly encapsulated and personal, nature of his thought processes, his emphasis on coercion from without (see his discussion about being taught letters of the alphabet), the strange nature of his logic and language, the paranoid attitude toward the world in general, are consistent with known cases of schizophrenia, paranoid type.

There are also indications of a sense of multiple internal selves, or a dissociated kind of experience (“conscience dreaming”) that may also mean he had dissociated personality as well. In fact, this combination of dissociated identity and schizophrenia is much more highly associated with violence than schizophrenia alone. Then again, his comments may only appear to indicate such dissociative processes, and be better accounted for by a thought disorder.

If one researches the words “conscience dreaming” online, you will find a YouTube video with that title, not by Mr. Loughner, and no connection with the latter is inferred, except that he may have watched the video. The video concerns three characters, The Agent, The Assassin, and The Dream Maker. There is also one imprisoned anonymous character. I find it quite coincidental to say the least that a phrase the supposed shooter used a number of times links to such a video which has such characters in it.

I would caution against implying any politics to someone who appears so disturbed, as his interpretation of political symbols and phrases are interpreted in a highly idiosyncratic and irrational way. However, if he were susceptible to violence, then the targets available by the given society, i.e., the rhetoric out there in the society, would have pointed him towards liberals, leftists, Muslims, or other minorities, and that kind of rhetoric has mainly been from the right-wing, as has been copiously commented upon.

As for whether such a person could be manipulated, it’s possible, but if he is as insane as he appears, he would have been a very unstable person upon which to base any such conspiracy. I tend to think, despite his talk about mind control and brainwashing, that he was not the subject of any such conspiracy. More likely, these concerns are more about such an individuals anxieties and paranoia about being controlled from without, about things outside himself threatening to invade his personal world. Concern with brainwashing is a common thread in narratives from schizophrenic individuals.

However, this doesn’t mean that mind control conspiracies by the government don’t exist. I’ve documented government documents, including of contemporary vintage, that proves such activity by the government still occurs. If one reads the history of this kind of research, attempts to really use mind control are not applied to schizophrenic individuals, though one does look for highly suggestible individuals, and then apply drugs and hypnosis and other programming techniques. The success or failure of such enterprises is highly classified.

Nah, he’s a good kid. Hasn’t given me a good puncture in a year or more. In March we’ll have our third anniversary since I adopted him from the rescue. I think he’s started to recover from his earlier traumas. :)

Did I dream a few weeks ago that the FBI goaded and ‘trained’ a young guy into setting off a bomb in a shopping mall during a Christmas tree lighting ceremony, or did something like that actually get reported? Seems like years ago now. It might as well have been a dream…

One does not have to establish a causal connection between the rhetoric and media work of the reactionaries to establish that this was an attempted political assassination. It’s a political assassination attempt because a professional politician was shot by an individual who had a political axe to grind. His disturbance only makes membership in a specific political community improbable. But it’s also a political assassination attempt because of the hyperbolic and violent rhetoric of America’s reactionaries, individuals and groups who did target Rep Giffords, who often use the rhetorical and symbols of violence, who defend expansive and permissive gun control laws, etc. The reactionaries will not be tried in a court of law for this incident (unless, of course, they were intimately involved in it). But they ought to be tried in the court of public opinion for fomenting political violence, of which the attempted Giffords assassination is just a case in point.

How are roger ailes or rush limabaugh openly calling for the elimination of individuals they label as dangerous anti american agents a “conspiracy”?

Crimes of passion involve persons who are close to each other, or at least know each other. No one is suggesting that Jared ever had any contact with the people he shot, so it could not have been a crime of passion. Also, a person who has paraniod schizophrenia is too deluded to act violently, unless he is drugged.

I truly get weary of lone nut theories.

Correction: we “already have” lone nut theories.

Yes, there have always been the mentally ill who think the Government is out to get them. But the confluence of the easy availability of guns and night-after-night conspiracy-spouting nutjobs making millions off of duping people into believing insane things, and the availibility of conspiracy theories on the web from Drudge, Malkin, WND, etc. IS a new phenomenon.

Now, let’s say Jared didn’t have a political thought in his head and is not mentally ill, let’s just say..what I am saying is there is going to be a mentally ill Jared one of these days who WILL be motivated by all of the conspiracies surrounding his world. It’s a warning about the future. And if the press doesn’t do something with the he-said, she-said ‘balance’ when it comes to these wingers, then shame on them and they are partially responsible.

Please note that there is a very vigorous right wing hype campaign going on now to place the blame on the left for this … folks like Pam Geller are tweeting up a storm and getting retweeted with all sorts of messages.

Folks – verify things before you buy into the messaging.

And no matter how disturbed this suspect is – and for now he is just a suspect – we do know that the right has amped up violent rhetoric recently (remember Palin’s “reload” comment for example as well as her target list) and their anti-government rhetoric can easily play validation to a disturbed person’s illness.

As I said, just because some mentally ill individuals appear very concerned about conspiracies, it doesn’t mean there aren’t actual political and criminal conspiracies in the world. I noted the ongoing mind control work by the government as one.

Please read my comments all the way through.

???????

i am not an expert but i think its possible for psychotics to commit acts of violence. is psychotic still a valid diagnosis?? in any case, I dont belive this guy is a psychotic. his crime appears to be way premeditated. he had to buy a gun and even in arizon pass a backround check. he was enrolled in college courses and inteacted with people normally, daily.

I did read your comment, it seems reasonable.My point is, why is the conversation turning to dark “conspiracy”, while well known media personaliies are calling for murder on network air. in the middle of the day.

That’s right. I don’t see a difference between these rants and the rants of Tea Partiers or Fox News.

http://www.orwelltoday.com/jfkadhate.jpg

I disagree it is a new phenomenon. In the 1960s, for instance, there were the Minutemen and a very active KKK. Plenty of right wing organizations. Do you not recall that posters were put up with a target over photos of JFK in the weeks before his assassination. Whether or not they were actual harbingers or associated with the actual assassination is besides the point. Earl Warren was another target of right-wing frenzy and threats. Early talk show hosts and commentators also said some pretty outrageous things. One could go back to Father Coughlin’s widely followed radio broadcasts in the 1930s. Or take a look at Oliver Stone’s movie, Talk Radio (1988) based on the assassination of radio host Alan Berg in 1984.

yup,and the radio………….omg

Jeff, woonderful reply. For the record, I have first hand knowledge of paraniod schizophrenia. My 26 year old son has it and is living with me.

I agree with you that Jared would have been an unstable person on which to build a plot. But then I’ve been reading what you and others have made available, indicating that susceptible individuals can be identified and subjected to drugs, hypnosis, etc. for unstated purposes.

We’ll have to watch how the investingation proceeds to see if there is more than just a “lone gunman” at work here.

It’s usually pretty easy to spot a tea bagger. Apart from the gold bug thing, there are no obvious tells at the moment.

right, some things never change, but sometimes some things get even worse. The texas fact finding commitee wasnt given an hour a day on the FOX nutwork.

?????

Thank you! A voice of reason!

The MSM ALWAYS pronounces the political assassin was a lone wolf lunatic. It shocks me how many comments appeared all over the net from folks instantly dismissing any political connection.

There are other people being picked up by the police in connection with this. Don’tcha wonder what their political persuasion might be…

re: our irresponsible, clueless media – just got a few chills watching an MSNBC clip from March, after Rep. Giffords’ office was vandalized during the health care debate.
Clip is of Rep. Giffords being interviewed by Chuck Todd (and one of the interchangeable female “anchors” whose names I can’t keep straight) about the vandalism. In answer to Todd’s question, she says she isn’t really afraid. But later she mentions Palin’s chart with the targets in cross hairs – and says Palin should be aware that there are “consequences” when you do such stuff.
To which Chuck Todd, in his clueslessness, responds, “but political rhetoric” has always been like war rhetoric! How can you say that’s extreme? (paraphrase).
Let’s make Chuck Todd watch that piece of his interview over and over and over until he wakes up and realizes his minimizing of the danger contributes to this crazy, violence-infused atmosphere.

Is it possible that this young man’s delusions had suddenly gotten worse because schizophrenia really starts to show up in the early twenties. Perhaps his family and friends didn’t understand that he was much more ill. Of course, none of this is true if he is simply a jerk who shot a bunch of folks.

True. And paranoia and politics are hardly strangers to each other.

Chuck Todd is a born again d.b.

((((Ratty)))) ((((Bob))))

Chuck Todd is an accessory after the fact.

hahahahahahahaha???????!!!!!!

You don’t have to know someone well to lose it and kill them. You might not have to know them at all: it just needs one brick too many on your load.

(Ever heard the phrase ‘the last straw’? That.)

douche bag emeritus

(((sadly))) Pats and scritches to horsie, Bazzie and the gang.

Really must pry myself out of this chair. See ya later.

i owe ya a beverage madear!

Well said, although my guess is that people who reach that level are so corrupted that they are incapable of personal reflection.

great to see ya ,take good care

Kitchens are acoustically ‘live’: noise gets bounced around. If there’s a lot of noise, like the kitchen being full of people who are all talking, maybe with music, you can’t tell what’s going on where.

Oh, yes, I remember. But the Minutemen and their ilk did not have a bombardment of ‘conspiracy’ information in split-second timing. With the web and cable channels…heck, with ‘information’ and communication with co-conspirators or people like Beck LITERALLY in your hand anywhere, anytime, we are in a different realm. I can walk around with a cell phone and listen to conspiracies all day long. I can then talk in masse with other like-minded individuals within a split second of the latest ‘news’. I can conspire with 1 person or a hundred people instantaneously. Father Conghlin was on the radio. You had to sit down, or be in your car, at least somewhere stationary, to listen to his rantings. And you couldn’t get on the phone and connect with thousands about what the government is plotting next within seconds. It may be the same message, but it’s not the same broadcasting of that message.

Absolutely right. America is full of self-proclaimed mental health experts. This is the Land of the Quack.

I would caution against implying any politics to someone who appears so disturbed, as his interpretation of political symbols and phrases are interpreted in a highly idiosyncratic and irrational way.

I’d bet that most Americans would claim that my “interpretation of political symbols and phrases are interpreted in a highly idiosyncratic and irrational way.” Should my views be disregarded? Perhaps. Yet, I have the institutional and self-education needed to support my interpretations and explanations, and sometimes do so in a ‘reasonable manner’! I also have a politics that I do consider reasonable. (Perhaps I’m a deluded narcissist.) If Jared Loughner differs from me, I would imagine the difference can be found in my lack of a propensity to engage in political violence and in the comparatively greater coherence I muster when I think about politics. But normality in America is not all that it’s cracked up to be, especially normal politics.

Mr. Loughner’s politics may have been self-directed and not especially intelligible by others, but it was a politics, his act had political significance and he likely meant it to have political significance, however bizarre his motivations may seem to the rest of us. I believe we should take care to retain the political significance the act has while avoiding to draw conclusions about the event, the individuals involved in the event and the behavior of some of our political notables.

ouch. Also, OWW OWW OWW.

I agree with the paranoid schitz, after watching the video, if it is his. However, this type of mental illness is not, as a stand-alone, equivalent to murderous rages. There must be outside influences fueling the delusions. Like maps with cross-hairs, for example.

Spot on mary, I have personal experience to verify that what you just said is true. The condition can envelop a young person like a tsunami, with family and friends at a loss to deal with it because it is unexpected and not understood.

That you make so detailed a diagnosis by Youtube makes me certain you wouldn’t be competent to make one in person.

Weren’t there two other people picked? Or one picked up and one was being looked for? Doesn’t this imply a conspiracy? Or a manipulation?

I doubt if any other sane nation on the planet earth would allow a FOX NEWS type of PHONY NEWS NETWORK on their air waves.

And your evidence for the U.S. being or operating as a sane nation is….?

Agreed, conversations and music could be muffled, but the sound imprint of gunfire would be relatively easy to distinguish.

From his you tube video:

“Every United States military recruit at MEPS in Phoenix is receiving one mini bible before the tests,” it said. “Jared Loughner is a United States military recruit at MEPS in Phoenix. Therefore, Jared Loughner is receiving one mini bible before the tests.”

It’s the present tense and 3rd person that gets me. It’s almost as if he’s memorized this particular phrasing for some reason…remind you of anyone?

Jim White’s got a new post upstairs…

And possibly more proximate ones as well, as in a sinister person suggesting to him that the gathering in Tuscon today would be a convenient place for him to make a political statement.

Holy Crap!

Today is different here, we’re all feeling powerless, we’re all decisively reminded of our powerlessness; aren’t we entitled today to say things just to say them?

Of more interest are the individuals who weren’t picked up. If there are others involved, given the track record of comparable events, it is unlikely that their identities will ever be known in the public record.

According to MSNBC, Judge Roll lived in the neighborhood where the meet and greet was taking place and apparently decided, rather on the sup of the moment, to pay his respects to his congresswoman. He wasn’t part of the staff or an invitee, so there was no public notice about his attendance. He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. This kid was clearly off the rails, and if he had had a knife, not a gun, would there be 18 vitims? Guns don’t kill people, guns kill people.
As for greenwarriors question, as the bumper sticker sez (paraphrasing), “pardon me for not being well adjusted to such a sick society”…..

Saddest part of this whole ordeal….it’s been made political by BOTH sides of the political spectrum. Don’t think so? What’s the name of the little girl that was killed? Anyone? I haven’t heard a whisper. Yet politician and judge are plastered all over the internet. And kind words from politicians on both sides of the fence. For Gifford. And the judge. The child? An afterthought. American violence is truly disgusting. It’s like the Iraq invasion. How many Iraqis killed? Barely mentioned, but when a US GI was killed? Plastered everywhere. Sad. Truly sad. Everything is political. Like a g-damn group of lemmings all following the leader, everywhere left and right on the internet.

“he just happened to be there” — right?

seems this guy could only rationcinate syllogistically…

Judge Roll just dropped in to pay his respects to the congresswoman, apparently. He wasn’t part of her party and there was no notice oh is planning to be there, no publicity to that effect. It was just an unfortunate circumstance.
I have to agree w the previous statements about the political angle. No notice about which of her staff were wounded or killed, what bystanders, etc. Perhaps they’re waiting till notification of next of kin, but 18 people, and most of them are still cyphers in the various media.

Not directly related, but, ironically, according to a 2004 TALON report the Pentagon sees war protesters as some sort of terrorists

addresses a “protest against the Iraq war . . . planned by a Sacramento chapter of a U.S. domestic group at the Sacramento Military Entrance Processing Station.” According to the report, “this specific group is deeply into “counter-recruiting,’” and views the station “as their last chance to influence a decision to enlist.” The TALON relates that the San Francisco Joint Terrorism Task Force had advised commanders of the San Francisco and San Jose stations of the protests, and notes that “it appears this protest will most likely be peaceful, but some type of vandalism is always a possibility.”

Amen!

i still dont follow. do you ever speak in words?

I understand what you’re saying, but actually – just heard a few minutes ago either MSNBC or CNN – the police have not released her name.

Not quite fair to place blame for not mentioning a name that is not yet known.

I bow to no one in my contempt for MSM (see my post above), but fair’s fair.
I must say the child seems to be mentioned quite often in all the reporting I’ve heard and read so far.

Hmm, have yet to see a lefty, in the present era, who was after someone to gun them down. This guy was clearly influenced by the right wing nut goofy so-called “constitutionalists” and tea partiers

Six people are reported to have died, the most info we have about the non-public figures are about the dead child who is reported to be in the range of 9 or 10 years old, three others we know nothing, except perhaps one is a staffer of Rep. Giffords. Giffords and Roll are public figures, I would chalk the reportage up to that, nothing more.

What has been killed here today is our sense of safety in democracy. I am really feeling that loss, very personally and as a member of my community.

I received an e-mail from Rep. Grayson who says there is no one nicer (who also only ever had a smile on her face) than Giffords, though he also mentions Rep. Teague, who lost his seat, and is said by my own rep to be “the nicest man I have ever known.”

We can only speculate that this was political because political figures were involved. It may be that this was a random act. It makes no difference, we all will feel vulnerable at public events from now on. Particularly because a child was killed.

A group of us who were friends with a young man watched him deteriorating and tried different things to get him to go for help, which he wouldn’t do. I have no idea what diagnosis he might have been given, but in the end, he murdered the perfectly lovely and harmless old man who lived across the street from him by beating him with a shovel.

This is not to say I think Jared’s act was apolitical. I think he intended to kill the Congresswoman.

All of us wished we could have found a way to intercede both before and after the murder.

my comment was to Jane

that is a un needed comment you made to me

just one minute of hate radio,will tell ya where this crap comes from

Violence is not part of the definition of paranoid schizophrenia:

From Wikipedia,

Schizophrenia (pronounced /ˌskɪtsɵˈfrɛniə/ or /ˌskɪtsɵˈfriːniə/) is a mental disorder characterized by a disintegration of the process of thinking and of emotional responsiveness.[1] It most commonly manifests as auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions, or disorganized speech and thinking, and it is accompanied by significant social or occupational dysfunction. The onset of symptoms typically occurs in young adulthood, with a global lifetime prevalence of around 0.3–0.7%.[2] Diagnosis is based on the patient’s self-reported experiences and observed behavior.

Paranoid shizophrenia is one of 5 subtypes of Schizophrenia. Here’s the Wikipedia definition of paranoia:

“Paranoia is a thought process thought to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion. Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory beliefs concerning a perceived threat towards oneself. Historically, this characterization was used to describe any delusional state.”

I have represented people who were diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenics and none of them committed crimes of violence or exhibited violent tendencies. They tended to withdraw and hide from the world or wander around aimlessly while hearing voices and carrying on conversations with people who weren’t present.

I believe it’s way too early to jump to any conclusions regarding this terrible tragedy, except to say that, even if the shooter was a paranoid schizophrenic, that is unlikely to be the whole story.

This shooting does not appear to have been a random event. The shooter appeared to have murder in mind and was together enough to pull it off. Some planning was required.

I’m going to wait and see before I draw any conclusions. Needless to say, like many of you, I suspect this young man was motivated to do this by hate radio and Sarah Palin’s irresponsible, reprehensible, and inexcusable targets. Whether he did is the big question that needs to be answered.

Also because we will have no acknowledgement by the MSM that the violent rhettoric being thrown around by the right wing haters must stop. This person was obviously disturbed and there was a reason he showed up where he showed up gun blazing. When does this country confront the dangerous stupidity tnat can end up contributing to such incomprehensible tragedy such as this. IMO this will embolden those with similar conditions to this shooter.

Could be the girl’s name is withheld out of respect for her family-she was a child, after all.

Tarring everybody with the same brush doesn’t solve anything.

JK said right off the bat he wasn’t attempting to diagnose Loughner. He offered, in his words, “impressionistic comments” – the same thing most people commenting on this tragedy are doing. The difference is that his perspective and language are those of a mental health professional instead of a layperson.

Of all the people likely to be manipulated by others to a particular end or to work in coordination with others, the last person I would imagine would be a paranoid schizophrenic.

I appreciated your comments because although I am horrified by Loughner’s actions and extend great sympathy to his victims, I felt very sad for him when I watched his videos.

‘Update III: MNBC is reporting that Giffords was shot from the front, and that the bullet exited the back of her head.’

That is part of thomas robert’s sloppy reporting. He said that around a half hour AFTER the surgeon came out and said the wound was a ‘through and through’.

Mike viquiera also said on three separate occasions how people were ‘mortified’ by the events.

yes, i agree. i really try hard not to argue with people im sure i mostlly agree with anyway. sorry for popping off at you.

Q. What is the difference between the Tea Party and the Taliban?

A. About 8,000 miles.