Per Puppethead in the comments, Giffords’ 2010 Congressional opponent Jesse Kelly held a June 12 gun event that was billed as follows on the Pima County Republican website:
Get on Target for Victory in November Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office Shot a fully automatic M15 with Jesse Kelly
Kelly’s website has apparently scrubbed the event , but here is the account from the Arizona Daily Star:
Jesse Kelly, meanwhile, doesn’t seem to be bothered in the least by the Sarah Palin controversy earlier this year, when she released a list of targeted races in crosshairs, urging followers to “reload” and “aim” for Democrats. Critics said she was inciting violence.
He seems to be embracing his fellow tea partier’s idea. Kelly’s campaign event website has a stern-looking photo of the former Marine in military garb holding his weapon. It includes the headline: “Get on Target for Victory in November. Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office. Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly.”
The event costs $50.
KVOA television in Arizona is also reporting that Rep. Giffords has died.
Update I: Gawker spoke to eyewitness Steven Rayle, who says one of the victims was “a kid no older than 10 years old”:
The event was very informal: Gifford had set up a table outside the Safeway and about 20-30 people were gathered to talk to her. The gunman, who may have come from inside the Safeway, walked up and shot Gifford in the head first, “point blank”. According to Rayle, who is a former ER doctor, Gifford was able to move her hands after being shot.
After shooting Gifford, the gunman opened fire indiscriminately for a few seconds, firing 20-30 rounds and hitting a number of people, including a kid no older than 10 years old. Rayle hid behind a concrete pole and pretended to be dead. When the gunman apparently ran out of ammunition he attempted to flee, but a member of Gifford’s staff tackled him. Rayle helped hold the gunman down while waiting for the sheriff to arrive, about 15-to-20 minutes later. The EMS came about 30 minutes later. Rayle said he was “stunned” by how long it took medical help to arrive.
Update II: Brendan sends this, which has apparently been scrubbed from Sarah Palin’s web page:



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My thoughts are with her and her family.
This is a total outrage.
Also, Palin’s target map.
These people are vicious. Every one of them.
Sick doesn’t begin to describe it.
There are plenty of low info, trigger happy, pseudo macho men and women just itching for civil war in this country.
The country sheriff on NPR just said she was still alive. I don’t know what the hell to believe.
conservative=sociopath
Remember, Sharron Angle was one of the right-wing Republicans calling for “Second Amendment remedies” (i.e., wholesale murder) against Democrats: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-horwitz/second-amendment-remedies_b_616191.html
As much as I hate to link to any Palin page, here’s a link to the Palin webpage with the target cross-hairs (like you’re looking through a rifle scope) over various parts of the country. There are three such over Arizona.
http://www.takebackthe20.com/
Screen shot this page before it’s scrubbed.
Already scrubbed.
Not directly related, but another example the Republican Manichean worldview from 2008
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/10/15/sacramento-obama-gop/
Server down already 500 error.
CNN reporter saying her husband is “some kind” of pilot..er..um…like the Commander of an upcoming Shuttle flight. Helllooo CNN??!!
This lovely Lady Congresswoman had a TARGET on her by the Snowbilly Grifter.
Snowbilly Grifter would do herself wise to STFU and not ever go to Arizona or out of her house AGAIN – Snowbilly along with Faux Noise and Hate Radio and the REICHWING have TOTAL RESPONSIBILITY.
Hospital spokeswoman Darcy Slayton on CNN now – Giffords in surgery now …briefing in 40 minutes, she was shot in the head.
A child and more in critical or serious condition – all gunshots.
Thanks for noting this, Jane.
Put it together with the Palin target map, and crazies who think they’re getting messages what to do have plenty to draw upon. Of course, I don’t know if this was a “crazy”, it could also have been a deliberate assassination. We will have to wait and see. In any case, as so many have pointed out, the GOP right wing have done plenty to whip up violent hysteria against the left (or anyone to the left of their troglodyte position).
I’d add that the recent bloodlust against Julian Assange and calls for his death by the right wing have also ratcheted up the calls to violence by an increasingly fascistic right-wing.
So any bets on whether the right-wingers will throttle back on the inflammatory rhetoric?
Anyone manage to catch the screen shot referenced at #9?
Seconded
jessy kelly should be indicted for inciting to violence and murder. She should be put on trial. This rises to the unacceptable level of shouting fire in a crowded theater. There are limits to free speech. This ad is simply screaming for a trial. Even though the t-party and bluedog types will shout about persecution, not responding will allow more of the same.
Like I said: Will DOJ snoop into the shooter’s twitter, facebook, email acounts to see who he may have chatted with recently? For instance this INSANE fellow who ran on tea-party, offering: “shoot assault rifle with candidate—”
Sick, sick, sick, bastard!
I live in AZ for 10 years, bunch of gun-crazed whack jobs!
The rightwing are the actual victims, doncha know? The shooter was probably some librul out to discredit them.
Here
Palin’s map via Huffpo:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/24/sarah-palins-pac-puts-gun_n_511433.html
Good Catch.
Well, I’ve made screen shots.
Kelly campaign ad here.
MSNBC now saying a Federal judge among the shot (possibly among the killed)
Edit: 9MM Glock recovered.
My prayers are with Rep. Giffords. I cannot help but think Palin, Beck, Limbaugh, Brewers and others in the right wing republicans are responsible for Todays killings.
WTF is going on in this country when gunshot victims have to wait 30 minutes for medical attention. It’s not like the location was out in the boondocks.
Ratfood, I don’t think all conservatives are sociopaths. Misguided, certainly, but homicidal, no. I’ll agree that some of them unthinkingly encourage the lunatic fringe to acts like this though.
Thanks all for the links to screen shots online. Never hurts to make them oneself, just in case.
I am sickened by what this country has been allowed to become. The Republicans and the Tea Party have been making unveiled threats of violence for at least a couple years now.
Cold-blooded murder was inevitable in the Fox News/Tea party climate. Scores of right-wing pundits and politicians have some culpability in this heinous act.
Murdoch Ailes
Our perpetually homicidal foreign policy suggests otherwise.
Hey, man, howya doin’?
“The people who want to assassinate their political opponents and the people who don’t are too polarized. This problem demands a centrist, bipartisan solution.” – future David Broder column
If that Gawker report and report from the eyewitness is accurate…Wow…just wow! And those response times are unbelievable…including the slow Sheriffs response time and not just the ambulance response time. Seems like it could have just compounded the tragedy.
My thoughts and well wishes go out to all those people and families who were immediately impacted by this.
*snort*
I am as horrified as anyone else, but shouldn’t we be a little careful about jumping to conclusions about the shooter and his motives and the link to second amendment remedies? Yes, it seems from reports that Rep. Giffords was directly targeted, so it’s hard to explain except by the poisonous political atmosphere, but we really don’t KNOW anything yet.
Thanks Brendan for capturing that image before it was scrubbed.
There was a disclaimer at the bottom saying something about, “this page was authorized by sarahpac and not the responsibility of any person,”
Edit: Anybody else get that?
Hangin’ in there, how ’bout you? Current events got my ire up.
Speaking as one who is familiar with LE, fire and EMS procedures — LE may have held back fire/EMS from the scene until it was deemed secure. I know it sounds cold and harsh, but that’s often the way it’s done.
NPR outs their source on her death:
You have precisely articulated my position on the matter.
I fear that this will provoke more violence by the Right Wing Crazies.
If Sarah or her people didn’t think it was a problem, why would they scrub it today? They are just hoping law enforcement doesn’t find it on the shooter’s laptop as his screensaver.
If that’s what they want, then we may have no choice.
Wondering what the right wing’ophere’ of the tubes would be like if that had been Sarah Palin. OMG.
15-20 minute response time to a shooting at a Safeway??? Sounds like Z.
Yeah, that time lapse made my jaw hit the desk. Hurt, too.
If Obama follows his standard procedure he’ll rule out prosecution in the interest of “looking forward.”
I looked. They they yanked the data right away from their website but that doesn’t “disappear it.”
So the Sheriff’s office missed it, then? You’d think NPR, CNN, etal might have gotten confirmations of the confirmations before going public. This race to be the first bullshit has got to go…
“You want it right, or you want it right now?” That’s what the reporters should be telling the idiot suits.
It’s not scrubbed. I just refreshed and it’s still there
In another grotesque and despicable act, two others in AZ die because of state Medicare budget cutbacks:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/01/06/health/main7219326.shtml?tag=dsGoogleModule
There are intermittent server overloads, but it’s still there
http://www.takebackthe20.com/
We be fine. Hadn’t seen ya on any of the threads in a while.
That would be a new Pearl Harbor for sure.
I’m attempting to organize a demonstration at Palin’s Wasilla house for 2:00 p.m. this afternoon Alaska time. I’ll try to get back on this.
Bravo!! Be careful.
LOL That would be rich.
Not only do I blame the right for the rhetoric that makes this horrid shooting inevitable, I blame all our political “leaders” who refuse to speak forcefully against the violence and hate that has taken over. Instead they “compromise” and capitulate. Blood is on the hands of many, not just the Palin crew.
Hibernation mode. Hoping to emerge svelte and rested in the Spring…
Outstanding!!
The tea party is a terrorist organization.
I reccommend ~~~Edtied by Moderator~~~
Mod Note: Do not wish or advocate violence towards others.~~~
And the media voices who enable and megaphone the hate.
Ding!
Thank you, Jane.
I was watching a talking head with a great voice on CNN and after he read Speaker Boehner’s statement he said, “Of course he’s a Republican and she’s a Democrat, which doesn’t mean anything right now.”
I went to HuffPo and got some details, but nothing that wasn’t on CNN. I just got to read them before CNN finally said them.
Only here do we get the context and the broader facts that the mainstream media ignores. Republicans targeted Giffords.
Great idea – please send info and photos.
That may have been my issue in not getting it the first time. Anyway, there are copies floating around out there now.
Let’s see Sarah explain her way out of this one. Better than her “fancy pageant walking…”
Here is another image from the website that was hastily taken down:
http://i.imgur.com/RNx56.jpg
I do.
boingboing has more
That area is densely populated and there’s no excuse for that time lapse – unless the city has cut back services to the bone.
heh heh heh Well, I’ll share this vid with ya now. There’s a vid in there somewhere.
Budget cuts might well be a factor.
Going viral. Excellent.
Rep Grijalva on CNN by phone now … very upset. Shock. The tone and the tenor of what we say as elected official and how we debate and … has to contribute to a discourse that is civil… Lesson to be learned that what we say matters and how we say it …
rough paraphrase
In retrospect, and people will probably scorn me for this, it was probably the responsible thing to do, since there were other targets on that map, and to discourage copycats, and to do something (though cat already out of the bag) to assuage fears of others (and their families) on that target map.
That’s not to say Palin doesn’t have responsibility for using such violent imagery in the first place. The evidence is obviously not destroyed, as there’s plenty of links now, and probably there was always archive.web.com.
I say this only after my first reaction was outrage at the scrubbing.
Yes they have—and it’s too late for these two people in AZ:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/01/06/health/main7219326.shtml?tag=dsGoogleModule
Constant whistles and code speech..the crazies just go crazy and the whistlers keep on blowing.
I see at another link that Kelly belongs to something called the Alive Christian Church.
In Arizona, the lawless killing of endangered wolves has long been occurring, and the Feds, continuing on into Obama admin.(where everything seems to have gotten worse) just plod along and don’t crack down on that, either. And if you’ve ever been in backwater places in gun nut states, and around these folks, there is real frothing hatred – that seems to translate into how they view everything, with their “solution” always being death.
http://www.defenders.org/newsroom/press_releases_folder/2010/07_16_2010_another_mexican_gray_wolf_found_illegally_shot.php
http://i.imgur.com/BfalP.png
There is what you were looking for, the bottom of the page.
Yes. This.
I know it’s early, and we don’t know all the facts yet, but we have been PREDICTING just this sort of thing.
Glenn Beck, et. all, ALL OF THEM, as well as the media, and any and all grownups in authority that refuse to take a stand about this share responsibility when some nutcase hears the rhetoric, doesn’t hear the grownup response to it, and decides to “take a stand.”
The chaos that will ensue if this continues is beyond anything anyone can imagine. Never in the history of mankind has there been such a populous country so well armed. Please, if there are any grownups left, it’s time to fucking do something. Even if this case was just random, the next one won’t be.
Perhaps scrubbing when the controversy emerged would have been responsible. Doing so now is simply cowardly.
Wow, I’m picturing a pigeon-toed perp walk. :)
Quite agree. The silence from the “other side” (which is just the other side of the one party system anymore) is deafening and just as morally bankrupt as the outspoken increasingly facistic rightwing.
Incendiary rightwing rhetoric has grown increasingly incendiary, and increasingly directly encourages that violent measures be used against citizens and politicians with whom you disagree. It’s reprehensible and not at all surprising to see something dreadful like this happen.
Peace to all beings and best wishes to everyone involved in this regrettable event.
I want Sarah Palin arrested and indicted for inciting this assassination.
This all strikes me as nothing more than the usual testosterone-laden nonsense conservatives tend to go for. If the individual who appears to be responsible for this had a political purpose in mind, then I think we need to look a little deeper. Was he a regular listener to some of the more hateful radio shows?
It takes a lot more than using cross hairs as symbols to motivate something like this.
Amen! Is the president so afraid of the NRA pac as not to use the bully pulpit?
this country is so steeped in gun violence, there is a spree killing every week or so…but today is beyond the pale. I feel sick.
I can only hope that it’s a wake up call of sorts to the establishment media that has been empowering the crazy for too long now. not holding my breath.
Totally agree. But government is complicit in this, e.g., calls for Assange assassination, take him out, high-tech terrorist (from Biden!), etc. So we’ll here nothing from them, except the most banal homilies… and then, watch, they’ll use this somehow to turn it against the left.
Government not to be trusted. We knew this in the 1960s, but a massive ton of domestic propaganda (beginning with Jimmy Carter’s ploy to make U.S. look like “human rights” protector after Pentagon killed over a million in Southeast Asia, torturing tens of thousands, assassinations, etc., and then sealed with the Reagan “Morning in America” crap, which targeted unions as the enemy… and onward to today, and the current “enemy”, Muslims) made people forget.
The vitriole and hate are alive and well in Arizona North, too, aka Michele Bachmann’s district.
My now-former ND Congressman was also a Palin target. Gives one pause.
Hey Mr. Dragon, did you get my second attempt at the OS-X kitteh pic?
Excellent idea. Stay safe and keep us posted.
Well, you won’t see me get in the position of defending Palin. It was just a thought. As I made clear, Palin cannot escape at least some responsibility for this.
What happened today in Tucson should not happen to anyone, anywhere, anytime, for any reason.
Sadly, we live in a country where the above statement is subject to dispute.
Probably trying to avoid an argument. Unfortunately for them, in the age of the Internet that’s pretty difficult to do regarding something like this.
But she feels that she has: http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=485459383434
No mention of anything related to her website, just generic condolences.
The POTUS doesn’t give a sh*t about any of this. As long he’s paid off by the corporate elites, everyone/thing else is fungible. Don’t expect Obama to say anything much other than the usual blah-blah condolences, which mean little.
I hope I didn’t come off as trying to put you in that position. Just a stray remark, nothing more.
Sarah’s gettin’ blowback. Check out the comments.
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=485459383434
Yeah. Cute kitteh. Hope his agent got him a good royalty deal.
From the New York Times:
Her father Spencer Giffords, 75, wept when asked if his 40-year-old daughter had any enemies.
“Yeah,” he told The Post. “The whole tea party.”
This is a worrisome thing, although I think you will find that whenever someone has criticized the U.S. or embarrassed it over the years, there have generally been a few folks who say this sort of thing, and reporters willing to quote them. What strikes me as different now is that this is an almost open policy of the government now, rather than something it did its best to hide.
Exactly. Especially when the reports so far are saying it was a young man, perhaps as old as 20 or 21. Not exactly the age that follows politics at all much less closely.
Here.
Interesting to note that this happened in Tucson, where rightwingers would have us all believe that the (white) citizens of SE Arizona are in dire peril from the Mexicans crossing the border… to the point where the (white) US citizens have to be armed constantly in order to “protect” themselves from the streams of Mexicans crossing the border.
And yet, what happens? It’s some white person with a gun who steps into a crowd and unloads… it’s too early to determine the motives. Whether this person was mentally unstable or not, it’s highly likely that they were incited by the incendiary hatred streaming forth from the corporate-owned rightwing media 27/7/365.
National tragedies give the CoC an opportunity to showcase leadership while providing a distraction from their actual job performance. It’s win-win, well, except for the victims.
I suspect they will not tone anything down. They will blame the victims, will say it was a lone wolf, will make any and every excuse, as always.
I think the most venomous in their ranks could ratchet UP the propaganda. We must take them at their word. When they say they will pursue gun violence (2nd amendment remedies) if they don’t get their way, why do Americans treat those words as if they are not serious? I take threats of gun violence very seriously.
heh… thanks for that. just as predicted…
O’s statement in my link at 106. Leadership, not so much.
27/7/365
Man, them’s some long ass days. *g*
In these times all you have to do is give some nut a gun, wind him up and point him in the right direction. It also could be a “her”, although we haven’t see that – YET.
He invoked Gawd though!!! He’s praying!!
Militia bait
won’t make a d*mn bit of difference to Palin’s slavering minions; they’ll defend Palin no matter what she does.
Not having much luck yet getting a demonstration going today at Palin’s Lake Lucille house. People want to know more first. Some want to go armed and I think this isn’t the time for that. Some are afraid to go and be photographed. We don’t know where Palin is right now either.
Not yet, a pretense will be made at a pending memorial service for the victims.
ooops! well *some* of my days sure seem that long!! har har
Well it could be. Like I said, only reports I’ve read online are of a white male, around 20. At that age, he prob wouldn’t even know what party was what and prob doesn’t much care.
Good try. I certainly do NOT encourage anyone to go armed. yikes. But I guess learning more first is a good idea. Maybe tomorrow???
Here’s the full graphic of the SaraPac graphic with the targets:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs454.ash1/24972_382925783587_24718773587_3655178_2736968_n.jpg
I’m with ya. But, don’t quote me as I don’t want to be targeted, okay?
Gotta make kabuki while ya can.
This assassination has created great ratings for CNN and MSNBC. Why should the news stations change?
Fear stalks the land after an event like this.
Actually, Tucson is a democratic liberal isle in a sea of re-thug. If the event had been in Phoenix,I bet America’s Toughest Sheriff (c) whould have responded quicker. (snark)
Just heard from a close friend in Tucson who usually attends Gifford’s meetings and rallies – today she didn’t, so she’s still alive. This is one of the main reasons we left Tucson this past April – people with guns, who feel free to use them. I am about as cynical a human being as exists and this does not surprise me, but it chills me to the bone. I heard Raul Grijalva’s statement, his voice was breaking, it’s just a fucking tragedy. And these Tea Party neanderthals all have blood on their hands.
Along with Sharron Angle’s “2nd Amendment Remedy” phrase she kept on using in NV.
Book ALL of Them – NOW!!!!
A bunch of us are changing our Facebook profile pics to Palin’s gun sights graphic. She can’t hide.
Before hatred and cynicsm engulf us all, watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p2hnmgYnhs
in times of crisis, we look to our leaders – and sadly that’s not Obama. we need Jane (and other DFHs) to articulate the way forward out of this mess. here’s hoping that her phone is ringing off the hook.
Some of us did follow politics at that age. He’s also prime age to be part of an intifada, and only a few years younger than that police officer who killed Pakistani governor Salman Taseer earlier in the week. There are a lot of things most people that age don’t understand, but it’s also plenty of time to gen up hatred for something real or imagined.
So, I recognize the possibility that he’s the kind of right wing nut job some folks here imagine, but we really don’t know the explanation.
I just posted this note to Palin’s pathetic facebook post:
Yes, it’s open. But it was in the early 1960s too. There were plenty of calls to violence against Earl Warren and JFK, prior to assassination of the latter. And remember, in those days, the Minutemen and KKK openly marched, held meetings, etc., and KKK members were openly in the Democratic Party. Or Goldwater’s famous quip re extremism in the “defense of liberty” being no offense.
Thanks
This is America… a nation which embraces violence and sadism. It pays and honors the sadists who become police and soldiers… calls them heroes as they can kill with no moral conscience whatsoever.
They call this a “christian nation” but we are more an outlaw nation… run by fascists who now have storm troopers all over the place.
Anyone can be next.
Maybe he was just disoriented and looking for a dumpster but came upon a political situation instead.
I fear events like this, like school shootings, like teen suicides, tend to be contagious. I hope not, but am not optimistic that some other nut will not take courage from this one.
She’ll join Michelle Malkin, as the latter is saying today:
The federal judge who was shot has reportedly died.
True words. The ugly face of American reality is brought into open view for all in the “homeland” to see.
Yes, I agree that Tucson is a more liberal area of AZ, but I’m speaking of general “drift” in AZ, esp after that rancher was killed further SE of Tucson earlier this year. The rightwing in AZ took that event and spun it to the max making it seem as if hoardes of Mexicans were streaming across that part of the AZ border armed and dangerous.
The killing of that rancher was chilling and calls for caution, but it’s mostly an isolated (and unfortunate) event that happened out in the wild.
The rightwing in AZ would have everyone believe that it’s Mexicans who are the big threat to everyone in AZ, which is not the case, as we see here.
Rift in Arizona as Latino Class Is Found Illegal
No wonder there is violence in Arizona!
No fucking wonder with this kind of bigotry written into Law… Talk about inciting riots… Where is the first amendment for Latinos in Arizona….
And I was just reading the above as this tragedy broke on the news… Shit Shit they are fucking crazy as hell…
She’s dumb as a fencepost, a grifter who is cashing out. Totally repugnant human being. Please go away Sarah and never show your face again or open your pie hole.
Maybe the judge was the target.
Luke Russert on MSNBC of course wheeled out the false equivalence calling on “leaders of both the right AND the left” to denounce violence
find me one example of anyone on the left calling for or implying violence
the media is only speeding the decline of this country
Of course they will. Plenty of guns and idiots who will go for the glory of killing. It will happen again.
I meant that being open about assassination is now official government policy, rather than hiding it. U.S. political discourse has a long, sad history of violent rhetoric.
MSNBC now saying Congresswoman Giffords expected to pull through
My fear is that this could be the tinder to the flame, inciting hundreds of thousands of those thrust downwardly mobile over the last decade. Law enforcement can just look the other way, like the EMS did today. Vigilante brownshirts. And I fear terribly for this country.
In going back and looking at the Arizona Daily Star article that Jane quoted, and the entire course of event, I can’t help but agree with you.
Unfortunately to some violence represents a fast track to fame. It’s a hell of a lot easier than being recognized for doing something constructive.
Please, please, please may that be true.
No problem. Anything else you want off the page while I still have it open ?
funny you say that I was just saying the same thing to my son a few moments ago… Yup we Lefties don’t espouse violence.
CNN reporting 18 shot 6 dead.
Free Republic is down also.
Judge John Roll, appointed by George HW Bush in 1991.
Lennon’s killer wanted to be famous.
Anyone remember this ?
I wonder if the mods have logs – occasionally people do post comments here suggesting violent solutions.
We should know more about the person that attempted this assassination. And it is certainly a horrible development that assassination is once again being used against politicians. It’s been nearly 30 years since the attempt on Reagan, and over 40 since MLK and RFK.
republicans should get on their knees and pray for themselves, as their ignorance and hatred and silence are responsible for this.
Yes, hopeful news.
But if this is true, still a terrible event:
The turn in this country is frightening. Where are some leaders with fortitude?
and….JFK. Fixed it.
Yep, that’s the one I had in mind. I’ll always remember the bastard’s name too, although I will not reward him with repetition.
There’s also the Reagan shooter, who had no political agenda whatsoever. Attaining celebrity to impress his would-be girlfriend was his sole motivation.
There is no brownshirt movement today (thank god), and I’m not so sure this is the harbinger of one. We should not fall prey to thinking of the Tea Partiers as a brownshirt movement, all rhetoric aside. They are very right wing and beyond free speech when advocating violence, but the brownshirts were an organized movement of thruggery and right-wing terror. We don’t have that here… yet. I also don’t see the spontaneous eruption of same, but maybe that’s wishful thinking on my part.
Also, the brownshirts were recruited from the Freikorps, right-wing terror groups organized by elements of the German military after the defeat in WWI, and tolerated by the German Social Democratic government at that time, because they saw a greater threat in the Spartakist/Communist movement in Germany at that time (a workers “soviet” had briefly already held power in Bavaria, for instance). — The elements that went into the creation of the brownshirts do not appear to exist in this country. That doesn’t mean a native American large-scale right-wing violent organization isn’t a real possibility here.
Right after I posted that my computer locked up and I had to reboot. The station I was streaming was playing an opera piece and I hate opera and I couldn’t change the station, had to do a restart. Vengeance? Hmmm… /s
Yes, i saw that too. Luke Russert is an embarrassment to his father’s legacy. The media will of course, try to say there are crazies on both sides. the truth is over the past two decades it is the right wing that stoked the flames of hate not liberals and progressives.
Well, there’s back up, and commenters directly stating their theory that a “radical Daily Kos reader” tried to assassinate Giffords.
A lot of spin, and hopefully we’ll learn more about the shooter at the upcoming press conference.
He’s put out a statement [via dKos]. I don’t think there’s a lot more that he can actually do, since his job isn’t law enforcement.
Which is really scary as Tim “Everything is off the record unless I’m specifically told otherwise” Russert was an embarrassment to journalism
Nah. Just a whoops. Don’t go conspiracy on me, will ya? So glad to hear your courageous voice here.
Dr saying Gifford condition is optimistic.. and that a young child has died… Shit
His father’s legacy has been greatly overstated. If he were alive Tim would probably be saying much the same thing.
Hospital: Very optimistic for Gabby’s recovery. One child 9ish dead. 5 critical. 5 in surgery. Others not badly injured.
When the corporate-owned rightwing media attempts to spin the false equivalencies of left & rightwing violence, they have to go way back in time to find examples of leftwing violence – mainly stuff that happened back in the 1960s.
The corporate-owned rightwing media, however, wants the stupified populace to believe that the leftwing is just as culpable and morally bankrupt (or more so) than the rightwing. No surprise that Luke Russert said that.
She’s going to say that what has happened, isn’t what she meant. She’s going to say that this was a lone, sick individual. She’s going to say that this person misunderstood her. And it’s not because of anything she’s said
And if it turns out that this shooter is a fan of someone on Fox News they’ll basically say the same things she’ll say ala Glen Beck
But that’s the implied point, as Jane pointed out
I wrote a larger post here
I agree. Tim Russert’s “Legacy” tends to be much over-stated. Don’t think the son is much different, or as they say: the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree….
Thanks for the historical outline, Jeff. I was hyper-visualizing. I do fear, however, that law enforcement and ems responders either will respond late intentionally or, be so overworked and understaffed that many situations won’t get any response. And that could escalate.
I am not aware of anyone here having suggested a conspiracy, merely that an atmosphere has been created and perpetuated by right-wing media which is conducive to violence.
Like dKos encourages it. /s
They don’t have a clue: all they know about places like this and dKos are what they’ve been told by their enablers at Fox. But they’ll cheerfully read right-wing blogs that encourage violent action in ways that would have gotten a left-wing site shut down permanently.
Agree completely. SarahGlennRush will wash their hands of this, and say: it’s not OUR fault. And conservatives everywhere will rush to point fingers of blame at the left, which will make no sense to anyone, except conservatives who bend reality to suit their fantasy world view of life.
yeah right into the same rotten barrel his father was in…
The god they believe in could care less about such things. As far as they’re concerned, their god kills people because he can-and so should they.
Hi, Rat. I was talking to Molly. Just that.
On edit: if you read what she wrote, you’ll understand my comment to Her.
Tim started out with potential but he figured out that corporate media frowns on substance.
He loves you but don’t cross Him or you’ll be sentenced to eternal torture.
It makes perfect sense (to lunatics).
Republicans murder those who disagree with them and threaten to shut down the government leaving millions without the required support. It’s about time these monsters were labeled “terrorists” because that’s exactly what they are. Let’s not forget JFK, RFK, JFK Jr., MLK, Paul Wellstone, and Mel Carnahan among others.
Isn’t that THE job of the executive branch, law enforcement?
JFK was almost 50 years ago. Beginning of the last era of domestic political assassination. (Were there any between McKinley and JFK besides Huey Long?)
Yep. Summed it nicely. Too bad.
Two questions:
* Is incitement to violence a felony in Arizona?
* Does Arizona, like California, have a felony-murder law by perpetrators of felonies can be tried for murder if anyone dies as a consequence of that felony?
Stop making mountains out of molehills.
The James Kelly event certainly seems extreme, but even bringing up the ad by Palin supporters is really “way out there”. Get a life. “War-like” or “battle” language and metaphors are very common in politics, and are used by BOTH major parties.
No matter how you feel about Palin or her politics, trying to blame this on her or her supporters is just grasping at straws. If you want to see how disturbed this guy was, take a look at what appears to be
his YouTube channel.
This shooter sounds like a loon, and not a right-winger.
Jared Loughner
Studied at Pima Community College
Lives in Tucson, Arizona
Education and Work
Employers •
Child Protective Services
________________________________________
College •
Pima Community College
________________________________________
High School •
Mountain View High School
Class of 2006
Basic Information
About Jared
Love hunting trolls and children, I want to be a woman one day…
Most people just don’t seem to understand me, but I’m gonna prove to you all how wrong you are…
My favorite interest was reading, and I studied grammar. Conscience dreams were a great study in college!
Fools who don’t understand the law are bound to suffer under it!
________________________________________
Sex Male
________________________________________
Interested In Men
He also lists the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf as among his favorite books.
Schizophrenic?
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:koF70deULPgJ:www.takebackthe20.com/+www.takebackthe20.com&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
text only
right wing Fox Fed nut job. any quotes from BeckLimbaugh?
If Gabby dies or is incapacitated, AZ law, as I understand it, would permit Gov. Jan Brewer — she of the drug-addled mind — to appoint Gabby’s replacement.
It could very well be Jesse Kelly, on the grounds that his vile campaign attracted almost as many votes as Gabby (1% difference).
In that case, this could be the most successful electoral assassination in recent American history: a complete turnaround in the district’s representation, from Giffords, a Democrat known for responsibly dealing with local affairs, to Kelly, a Republican/neo-fascist who fawns over and favors the rich and the violent. Such is life in America in the 21st Century.
It wouldn’t be the first time a disturbed personality was used to do powerful people’s dirty work. It happens all the time.
You are so naive. Have you no knowledge of history?
PS Has anyone checked the alleged Loughner websites for authenticity? His website on MySpace has already disappeared.
I have already read that on Huff Post…The shooter was a “librul”.
Not just Palin et al, but mainstream and Bagger politicians have applauded this violent rhetoric and encouraged the loonies. A pox on them all…
Jesus Phoenix woman, when I made that mistake the other day and commented on Tucson and asked if Arizona was okay now, I never dreamed that something so tragic would happen.
sad to see the ‘i love guns brigade’ banging on on youtube around this tragic situation..oh and threatening anyone who dont agree with them..its odd in UK we dont like, or need or want bloody guns, in fact a few campaigns been happening whereby mothers of young black kids shot to death by gun weilding gang members have been on tv quite a lot…
well i’m surprised they could spell that…
i saw that..it looked pretty vacant
Lemme get this straight. This woman is a willing member of a party which has been engineering a ‘surge’ in violence against the people of Afghanistan. She has voted for bills that permitted the targetted assassination of suspected Afghan political leaders by drone & where children who are frequently killed & maimed in the ‘assassination’ attempts are written off as collateral damage, but now humans are meant to feel sad for her and mad at the representives of another mob of amerikan political leaders whose policies are only slightly different?
Yeah Right. Karma’s a bitch.
Not that any of the drongos here will agree since they have been distracted by the big play fight between the two whores to corporate capitalism.
So, apparently, this fellow posted insane rants, was arrested twice, caused the police to go to PCCC five times for disruptive behavior, attempted to join the armed forces and was rejected, yet, he was able to walk into Sportsman’s Warehouse in Tucson and purchase a semi-automatic 9 MM Glock with an extended ammo casing.
People with guns kill people.
GG is my congresswoman. I voted for her on November 2. I also voted against Jan Brewer who signed Senate Bill 1088 into law in April 2010, which allows anyone, 21 years old or older, to carry a concealed firearm without a permit.
Not to discount the previous poster’s suggestion that the shooter’s utube transmissions were bull (which I suspected) and that somehow, a Jesse Kelly contingent was behind it (which I suspected immediately), one cannot discount the effect of legislation that lets every Tom, Dick, and Jared pick up a leathal weapon as easily as a Big-Gulp.
when someone walks into a school and kills a bunch of kids, most politicians utter platitudes then continue to take marching orders from the NRA. I hope that the killing of their own will make some politicians wake up to the fact that assault weapons do not make us safer, and owning them is not a right guaranteed by a few words written by musket-owners.
Yeah, he’s praying!! What an effin crock!
RepubliKillums… T.E.A. (Target Everyone Against) Party… Scary Palin…
Her symbolic Death-Threat-Gunsight Map is very revealing as to the kind of (?) human being(?) she is.
Not cute, not witty, not clever… revealing. Evil. Ugly. Hateful. Nazi-ish. Lizard-y. Reptilian, Cold-Blooded.
She – Sarah Palin – HAS contributed to the creation of this event.
That map is a seed that has sprouted exactly what it depicted.
I don’t reckon Jesus would hang it on his wall!
Dark is behind this event but it will bring Light to the world in the long run…
I wouldn’t be so naive as to believe that this was the action of one man.
One ripple effect of this sad and tragic event is that it is stimulating a concentrated focus of prayer, compassion, unity, Light and Love. This will create change.
Consider that anger and hatred you may be feeling right now is an energy you are contributing to the world.
If you shift it to Love… Well… Hmmm.
Because of this, hearts will unite and increase the Love quotient on this planet. We are all One.
What happens to one, happens to us all. On some level, we are all affected by this event one way or another.
If you are reading this, you have been affected, no doubt.
My Prayer, Love, Compassion and Light go out to all of those affected by this.
I pray for healing and clearing of the poisonous hate energy from which these actions boiled out from.
I ask for Light to fill the darkness and the void.
In Love and Light…
“This shooter sounds like a loon, and not a right-winger.”
I don’t see a difference.
SARAH PALIN should be made an example of and tried for inciting murder. NO POLITICIAN should be allowed to make a public statement suggesting murder of a person or a group of people. This is EXACTLY what happened in Nazi Germany. Unless the US Gov’t makes an example of Sarah Palin and tries her against the death penalty, we can expect more politicians to willy nilly pick entire groups of people… jews, blacks, gays, asians, protestants, really ANYONE and target them for extermination… and know that they will NOT be held accountable. This is the line people. This is the line that should NEVER be crossed. NOW SARAH PALIN (REPRESENTING THE ENTIRE REPUBLICAN PARTY) NEEDS TO BE PUT ON TRIAL FOR HER LIFE.
It seems to me the most effective thing the left could do in the wake of this event that was so clearly incited by right wing fear mongering is to press Obama to restore the Fairness Doctrine. It would merely take an executive order, similar to the one by which Reagan abolished it in the 1980s. The rationale could be simply and clearly explained — the people talking about “second amendment remedies” are all far right, and it is time to present views of the left for peaceful change.
My thoughts and prayers are shared.
May the True Light shine a way in/through this sickening darkness.
Thank you Jane !!! Thank all those who are willing to put this in our face, to remind this country what we have allowed and ignored as a nation, going about our lives with their eyes wide shut. ‘Newspeak’ prevails in America, as inept ‘actors’ posing as journalists, skip over the REAL stories while giving us fluff and this subject is a prime example. This came and went with little fanfare and certainly little if any opposition.
This blatant shove in recent years towards violence from the fringe of the Right not only must end, but rather should have been stopped immediately, when it first came upon the scene. Yet we’ve dared listen to the claim they have ‘Constitutional Rights’ to spew whatever violence they chose,’protected under the law’. Would we have been so tolerant if what you’ve presented to us here had been posted by a Muslim man for example? We ALL know the answer to that. Yet how is it this behavior on behalf of Palin is not a terrorist act(s)? She Targeted specific politicians. Targeted with no doubt AND touted ‘lock and load’ as her mantra. We’d of been dimwits not to fully understand her intended implications. Yet they were dismissed and ignored. Now that a ‘Reaction’ to her musing has taken place, we are suppose to now buy into her Pray for the victims crap? Seriously? Especially with the likes of what she has been espousing here?
Truth is the disgrace of yesterday’s incident in Arizona lies squarely upon the shoulders of more than just Palin. Duly culpable is Beck, Limbaugh AND the Rep. Party itself, who has not only stood by and allowed their ‘representatives’ to promote this Poison but have USED these very folks to fuel support for their Party since Palin hit the scene. They’ve certainly knowingly used and supported their un-vetted, ignorant and obviously uneducated half term Governor solely for the purpose of gaining support for their Party. It worked! NOW, however, they must be forced by this Nation to deal with the consequences of those actions.
If only we could count on the media to hold their bs rhetoric to the fire and call the Right out as they are already attempting to spin this into a ‘both sides’ issue. The Dems too must FINALLY have the balls to once and for all call them out on this one. It is imperative the country not let the Newspeak be allowed to spin the truth of this fringe mindset, fueled by the likes of not just Palin but Angle, Bachmann and all others of this ilk and call it for what it is ~Terrorism.
Yet, silly me, for our inept mainstream media seeks little in the way of truth. Ratings is there goal and entertainment is their M.O. How refreshing it would be to have them once challenge the claims this happens on both sides of the aisle, with guns and 2nd ammendment rights as the motto.
Thank gawd for the internet, that is still able to remind us our reality is far removed from the spin we are daily fed elsewhere.
Again, Thank You Jane for all you do!
Apparently it is not profitable to have ambulance crews at the ready that time of day. Money and health care decisions do not mix. At least in the civilized world.
Ambulance crews respond to many different locations, as needed. I worked as a nurse for 35+ years. The response time of the ambulance crew and the medivac helicopter allowed a brain injured patient to be transferred for surgery in time to save her life. They provide a civilized service in a not so “civilized world”. Have you ever driven, or been in service on, an ambulance to know what is expected of them? We are trying to get people to understand that their words, and criticisms, have meanings. Not having all the facts sometimes causes us to comment in a less then positive way.
Let’s not forget all of the other participants in the spreading of hate and fear rhetoric. Talk such as 2nd amendment remedies, I want you armed and dangerous, we came unarmed “this time” the tree of liberty, death panels, gangster government, government takeover, the whites of their eyes, health-care rationing, the President isn’t American. These people are irresponsible. Hats off to the sheriff of Pima county for bringing some of this to light. It had to be said. Thanks to Olbermann for his comments. He was spot on. Thoughts and prayers for all the victims and their families, including the family of the shooter. They’re probably victims also, just in a different way.
Thanks, Jane. It should be obvious to any clear-thinking individual that the vitriol spewing from the mouths of conservatives, and particularly the tea-party nut cases, can inflame the sick, warped and demented among us. Of course, Republicans are quick to denounce the heinous act, just as they denounce the bombing of abortion clinics or the assassination of doctors who perform abortions. However, it is their very rhetoric that spurs to action the marginal elements of society.
Time and time again, we have heard Rush and Glen and other talking heads say things that cross the bounds of good taste, only to feign surprise when a tragedy occurs and fingers start pointing in their direction. One way or another, this has got to stop.
All the victims and their families have my deepest sympathies.
This is the day for change, real change. We need to stop the bickering and fighting within our country. Too many times people get divisive over things that actually have little to do with day to day life, and blame others for their problems that they are having today. We, as a Nation, no a World, need to grow up and stop fighting amongst ourselves.
-Markos Moulitsas, Daily Kos Blog Post, Wed Jun 25, 2008