After Ochs’ death, it was revealed that the FBI had compiled hundreds of pages of intelligence about him, though the bureau had at time misspelled his name as Oakes and even after his death continued to consider him “potentially dangerous”.
Director Ken Bowser, producer Michael Ochs (Phil’s brother, and one-time manager) and Phil’s daughter Meegan join us tonight to discuss Ochs’ life, music, contributions, and his love of movies.
Ochs began his career singing what he called his “topical songs” in coffee houses and folk music cafes in Greenwich Village and graduated to hootenannies at Carnegie Hall and the Newport Jazz Festival. Ochs, who considered himself a singing journalist, was a prolific songwriter. He focused his music on civil rights, war, labor issues, government malfeasance and other current events. He performed at a wide range of venues, including civil rights rallies, anti-war demonstrations, and concert halls.
Though he supported Eugene McCarthy in 1968, Ochs was actively involved in the creation of the more radical Youth International Party (Yippies) and witnessed the Chicago police riots during the 1968 Democratic Convention, an event that—in combination with the assassinations of Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy and the election of Richard Nixon—left him disillusioned. He testified at the trial of the Chicago Seven, reciting the lyrics to “I Ain’t Marching Anymore.”
While Ochs was a witty and prolific songwriter, he never managed to crack the Top 100 on the Billboard charts, though Joan Baez’s cover of “There but for Fortune” became a Top Ten hit in the UK and reached #50 on Billboard. Baez, along with Tom Hayden and Sean Penn, offer up their takes on Ochs, who in 1970 decided his person was part Elvis Presley and part Che Guevara, performing in a gold lame suit and covering classic 1950s rock and country hits as well as his own tunes. Audiences were a bit stunned. Sadly, Ochs was imitating Elvis in another way: he was taking a lot of prescription drugs.
On his 1971 trip to Chile to support the democratically elected president, Marxist Salvador Allende, Ochs met Chilean folksinger Victor Jara and the two became good friends. Ochs then proceeded to Uruguay with American friend David Ifshin for a performance at a political rally. The two were detained then put on a British run Banff Airlines flight to Bolivia, where, concerned about their safety, the airline captain allowed them to stay on board as he barred the Bolivian authorities from entering. The flight then took off for Peru, and, spooked, Ochs and Ifshin quickly left for the States.
Though suffering from writer’s block, Ochs continued to perform, especially at benefits including a concert on behalf of activist poet John Sinclair that featured Stevie Wonder and others. He organized An Evening with Salvador Allende”, included films of Allende as well as singers Pete Seeger, Arlo Guthrie, and Bob Dylan, former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark. But by mid-1972 things began spiraling out of control for the singer: he was robbed and strangled in Dar-es-Salaam and believed the FBI and/or CIA were behind the attack. Allende’s 1973 assassination and imprisonment, torture and murder of his friend Victor Jara further increased his depression and fear.
While Ochs’ paranoia, drinking and pill use escalated, they did not prevent him from staging the 1975 War is Over rally in Central Park to celebrate the end of the Vietnam War. The bill featured Ochs, Joan Baez, Odetta, Bella Abzug and Harry Belafonte among others and was attended by an estimated 100,000 people.
Ochs’ drinking spiraled out of control and at one point he took on another persona, that of John Butler Train whom he claimed had killed Phil Ochs. Family and friends urged him to seek help to no avail, and though the Train character faded, Ochs carried a weapon at all times and railed against the FBI, at times living on the streets. Finally, in January 1976, he moved in with his sister and her sons, was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and prescribed medication, which he claimed he was taking. He hanged himself on April 29, 1976. Congresswoman Abzug had his death entered into the Congressional Record.



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Before we start, just a couple quick notes: Please refresh your browser every minute or so to see new comments, questions and answers. To reply to specific comment, hit the reply button underneath it and then type away. Always after a comment or question hit “send comment.”
Please stay on topic–in this case the film Phil Ochs: There but for Fortune, Phil Ochs’ life, folk music and activism, the 1960s to the end of the Vietnam War…,
If you want to jump in about anything else not about tonight’s topics please find a post elsewhere on FDL to do so. Thank you.
Please be respectful of our guest and of each other. And yeah, I tpye badly…
Hello Meegan, Ken and Michael, and welcome to Firedoglake Movie Night. Thank you all for being here tonight!
Hi Lisa! Thanks for doing this!
My pleasure. Nice to be here.
Hi Lisa – glad to be here!
Thank yo all–and Meegan, nice to see you, so to speak! I guess my first question is the timing of this movie: Why was this the right time to make it and how long did it take to do the actual shooting and assembly?
Michael, why don’t you take that?
Hi Ken, welcome!
And do you think this will lead to a biopic?
Meegan, how has your father inspired you (granted I kinda know the answer, but our readers don’t)
Ken and I actually started this project 19 yrs ago. About six yrs ago, after the US invasion of Iraq, we got in gear and Ken started shooting interviews. The time felt right; and feels even more so now. Ken can answer the assembly time and other specifics.
Ken, Michael, Meegan, Thank you for a great film. What are the dates / cities for the release?
Check out http://www.firstrunfeatures.com for the best info on release dates and cities. NYC opens Jan. 5 at the IFC; and L.A. opens Mar. 4 at Laemmle’s in Santa Monica. There’s more in-between.
My father inspired me to be an activist. I’ve spent the last 18 years working for the ACLU of Southern California doing event fundraising. My father actually performed at the ACLU Bill of Rights Dinner that I have produced since 1993 when I was 7 or 8. It is wild to think of someone in my job asking my Dad to perform at the event!
We started filming about 6 or 7 years ago, and Michael and Meegan and I started talking about 20 years ago. It all finally came together when a man named Michael Cohl, the promoter of everyone from the Rolling Stones to U2 etc, found out that Michael was selling his music archives, and was Phil Ochs’ brother, and was involved in making a film. He called us and asked us how he could help. At that time, Michael and I were quite upfront with him and said that this wasn’t necessarily a money-making venture and that Phil certainly wasn’t the Rolling Stones, Michael Cohl’s response was that Phil had played a little coffee shop that Cohl ran when he was young man and that he loved his music and loved the man and wanted to help and that the money was totally a secondary issue to him. At that point, he provided the money to bring the project together with the footage that we had shot over the years and we were able to complete filming and then it was probably roughly a 6 month post-production schedule to get the completed film.
YOu are really good at producing those ACLU events, Meegan, the Grammy Nights you set up were awesome, and the Torch of Liberty dinners have always been exciting and inspirational, not a dull moment ever!
Luckily, Michael Cohl loves promoting Super Heroes, like Phil and Spiderman (which he is producing on Broadway).
As Michael Ochs said the other day, “Michael Cohl is into superheroes, besides from producing this film with us, he is the producer of the upcoming Spider-Man Broadway musical”. Risk is obviously something that he enjoys!
that Michael Cohl connection is very cool. Heartwarming.
Thanks! I love finding create ways to get people interested and involved in civil rights and civil liberties issues. The events, as my Dad knew, really bring in a new audience.
What’s That I Hear?: The Songs of Phil Ochs, a two CD set of 28 covers by artists that includes Eric Andersen, Billy Bragg, John Gorka, Nanci Griffith, Arlo Guthrie, Pat Humphries, Magpie, Tom Paxton, Dave Van Ronk, Sammy Walker, Peter Yarrow, and others benefited the ACLU of Southern CA and Sing Out magazine..why the latter?
Yeah, it seems like Phil’s effect on people doesn’t diminish over the passing of time. I fell in love with his music when I was a teenager and it helped shape my world view. I only got to see him perform once in person, but I did get to shake his hand. He made an indelible impression.
Cohl also has promoted some great bands on tour–he did the U2 PopMart tour.
What was emotions came up during the making of the film? And great narration btw Michael!
Sing Out Magazine brought so many folk singers to public attention and gave them a place to regularly share their work with a very targeted audicence. It was an amazing publication.
Just watching the clip I can see an intensity and spirit in Phil that must have been amazing.
Sing Out magazine was my sister Sonny’s suggestion. She is involved in the folk movement.
The South American events were pretty intense. Michael was your brother in contact with you during that tense period? Did you know he had been imprisoned?
You can only imagine the emotions that surfaced during the making of the film. The one emotion that stayed constant throughout was the feeling that Phil would finally get the last laugh.
Actually, Phil was only briefly held for questioning. He told me that he had been tortured; but it turned out they only threatened to take away his American Express card! Seriously, he was in touch with me; and it was a very intense time (but then again, what time with Phil was NOT intense?).
Yes, he became a movie star, and to reference Sean Penn’s great observation in Phil Ochs: TbfF, created the movie of his own life.
Wait ’til you see the rest of the movie….
Kudos to the airplane’s captain for locking down access to plane.
Phil sounds beyond intense, obvious he was self-medicating fo rhis bipolar disorder with Valium and alcohol and other rx meds, whihc seemd to exacrbate his condition. Do you colectively/indivdiually ascribe to the idea that bipolar disorder can manifest as creativity, that there is link between artistry and bipolar disorder–or so we just hear about the bipolar people who are intensely creative, and overlook those who aren’t famously creative?
I’m so excited that audiences will finally get to see this amazing film! Ken was such a perfect person to do this, along with Michel. His love and understanding of politics and music were essentail. Michael’s guidance was, of course invaluable, and then Michael Cohl brought the funding to make it all happen.
Phil lived the movie; Ken documented it.
The best book on the subject is “Touched with Fire” by Kay Redfield Jamison, who is manic-depressive.
Your earlier question about the timing of the film coming out made me think about how inspired young voters were with the Obama campaign, and how they are now waking up to the reality of the difficulty and time involved in political change. I think it is a great time for the film to come out. I hope it inspires people that each person can make a difference in their world.
there have been a lot of creative manic-depressives throughout history; but you’re right: we don’t hear about the “everyman” who suffers from the disorder.
Did Phil ever jam with the Fugs? The timing seems right.
Yes, we saw a collective power surge, and now we need to keep that energy going, even though it may upset some of the OOVs (original Obama voters)to keep asking for what we were promised…at the same time, we are seeing how politics–for good or bad–is being done and how a President has to deal with Congress and other national and global pressures that may make keeping campaign promises difficult.
Yes, in a way, of course – Ed Sanders was one of his close friends and The Fugs were with Phil and the MC5 who were the only musicians to show up during the Chicago Democratic Convention in ’68. How much actual jamming they did, I can’t speak to, but they definitely played on the same stage on a number of different occasions.
Phil was very good friends with the Fugs, notably Ed Sanders (who you will see in the film). However, he never actually “jammed” with the Fugs.
There are many of us who are bruised fruit.
I wish more people who are lurking would speak up.
This is not a brain surgery post. *g* We all have deep feelings. And,it’s good to share them.
Wait a minute, Michael, you don’t remember the famous Ina Gada Da Vida jam with Phil and the Fugs?
You can Phil in the blanks, Ken
You can Phil in the blanks….
About 20 years ago, give or take, I went to a Phil Ochs memorial/celebration concert with lots of area musicians playing his songs at The Birchmere in Alexandria, Virgina. Sonny Ochs was there and had been one of the organizers. It was such a memorable night – inspiring, powerful, fun but also deeply moving.
Sonny was so gracious and helpful while we were creating the film, and continues to organize song nights built around Phil’s music.
What happened or was said or what was it that you heard that made it memorable for you?
I’ve only watched the memorial concert on film, but I can say with certainty that the high-light was Dave Von Ronks’ rendition of the folk standard, “He Was A Friend Of Mine”.
I did not realize he had bi-polar disorder, but that makes so much sense. Even though the treatment and options for living with BPD are so much better now than they were then, it is still a terrible illness to live with. I am so sorry for the loss of Phil Ochs, and the story of the FBI and the assaults he suffered make his life so painful to imagine.
He will live on now, for a new generation of people! That is so wonderful.
I think Michael can address the issue of why Dave Von Ronk went on first.
Did I miss it…Did you say who Sonny is?
It has been GREAT to see the wonderful reviews that have been popping up all day! Now that the film is being released, starting in New York, the reviews are starting. You never know how people will respond, and I’m so pleased so far.
Thanks. Not so much illuminating for me though.
Ken, they are referring to a different tribute than the Madison Sq. Garden memorial in 1976 where Dave Von Ronk sang “He Was a Friend of Mine”.
Sorry, Sonny Ochs is Phil’s sister.
Well, I already knew Phil’s music and a little bit about his legacy because I had heard some of his better known songs in the late 60s and 70s here and there and had always loved them. I had a couple of albums or tapes still at the time of that concert. The area bands that played that night were a wide musical variety – punk-style, straight-ahead rock, folky, an all grrl band, …can’t remember all of them now. But they had each chosen particular works of Phil’s that they clearly liked and that resonated in some current way with their musical/social/political/spiritual visions of things going on at that time, in the Bush I era. So I guess their passion, their fresh arrangements and interpretations, the continuing relevancy of the lyrics…and the tremendous enthusiasm and very loud and sometimes boisterous crowd support on most of the songs. It was just a great evening of musicians/audience being in synch and with a sense of both remembering someone great and also sharing a continuing commitment to some of the messages and values in the lyrics.
I ran into an office-mate there that night and we both looked at each other in shock initially, then in a great laugh and huge smile at our shared interests that were not exactly in tune with the office zeitgeist at that time (or any.)
The Memorial concert after my father’s death was amazing, and full of amazing moments. Dave Van Rock was such a soulful man, and he really showed it that night.
Musicians! Gotta love the experience, but don’t try to acually talk to one. I know.
Meegan, did you see you dad perform?
Sorry, I lost the thread for a moment, as MIchael says, I’m referring to the Madison Sq. Garden Memorial in 1976 that was taped for broadcast on PBS.
I’m so happy for your experience. Sounds like fun.
Cool. I got turned onto Ed Sanders via the Yippies at a New Years Party in 1979 outside Dayton.
I’m trying to recall hearing Phil’s songs… “Small Circle of Friends” and “Love me I’m a Liberal” come to mind after reading his Wikipedia entry. Which leads to another question – did Sean Penn assist? (Meegan, you mentioned Michael Cohl, Wikipedia has you as talking with Sean about making this documentary)
I actually only saw him perform a few times that I can remember. My most vivid memory is standing back stage with him when he was about to go out on stage and he scooped me up and brought me out on stage and said this is my kid! It was dark, so I couldn’t see how many people were there and there was a roar of applause which startled me and I ran off stage.
Actually, my most memorable time seeing my Dad perform was at the War Is Over Concert in Central Park at the end of the Vietnam War. That was an amazing day.
Sean and I became friends through his interest in my father’s music. We talked for years about doing a feature film with Sean playing my father. He was interviewed for the documentary, and has been a great supporter, but he wasn’t involved in making the film.
Thank you, Lisa, for this post. Crazy is.
I bet! that sounds like it was an amazing event. And it helped to remind me of what an activist Harry Belafonte was and still is.
Phil Ochs has been an inspiration and, ironically, a beacon of sanity in a county gone mad. I ain’t a marchin’ anymore.
Sean Penn assisted the documentary only by making himself available to be interviewed. He has a long-time interest in Phil; but had nothing to do with developing this documentary.
I’d kill for an interview with him. Just saying. Scored enuf.
There’s a new film on Harry Belafonte that Michael Cohl produced that’s premiering at Sundance later this month.
were there any revelations in the FBI documents (aside from Phil’s paranoia being somewhat justified and that “intelliegence in some cases is a misnomer?)
I was a little too young for the Vietnam War, but had older brothers in jeopardy. They loved folk musicand had lots of records, including Phil Ochs. I memorized the “Draft Dodger Rag” when I was in Jr. Hi.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_Dodger_Rag
Doing away with the draft ended war protest in this country. No one will ever give a damn again as long as it’s “others” who enlist and die or end up with PTSD or worse.
The most startling revelation was that Phil was still under surveillance six months after he died. “Intelligence”???
If you want to know how much of a misnomer “intelligence” is – they were still following Phil after his death. So maybe he wasn’t so paranoid after all.
And in a nice tie-in, Next week’s movie William Kunstler: Disturbing the Universe – features Harry Belafonte who was present during the Chicago Seven trial; Kunstler asked Belafonte and Marlo Brando to be at the trial.
Michael and Ken: exactly!
A very astute comment, when they took away the draft it became as you say “others who have to go”. People tend not to pay attention when they have nothing personally at stake.
Bill Kunstler also requested that Phil attend the trial, which he did.
Yes, and spoke out–I was not sure if Belafonte and Brando did, hence my rather oblique parsing.
I loved that he recited his lyrics.
COuld you tell us a bit about Phil’s love of movies and his fondness for John Wayne and Gregory Peck?
I have a question(which might have been answers above .. as I am coming late to this). What would Phil have thought about later-day artists(like Pearl Jam) covering Phil’s songs? Would he get a kick out of being remembered 35 years later? Would he be mad that he isn’t as remembered as Bob Dylan is?
Especially Wayne, whose politics were pretty much the direct opposite of Phil’s.
And could the filmmakers discuss his friendship with Dylan?
The Kunstler film is terrific – Susi Korda and Bill Kunstler’s daughters showed it to me in an early rough cut and it was moving even then. I believe it’s on the short list for an Academy Award.
Not enough time here; but Phil’s love for movies matched his love for music. Had he not been a musician, he definitely would have been in the film business. A real quick John Wayne story: When Wayne was interviewed by Playboy Magazine, he was asked why he filmed the movie “Green Berets” to which he responded, “To counteract the lies being spread by Phil Ochs and Joan Baez.” Phil’s reaction was, “That’s great! John Wayne knows who I am!!”.
Any artist wants his work remembered and revived. Phil always loved it when other artists covered his songs.
Phil especially loved the films that John Ford and John Wayne made together. “Pleasures of the Harbor” was inspired by Ford’s “Long Voyage Home” based on the O’Neill Sea Plays. He also, if nothing else, what Phil shared with Ford and Wayne was a passionate love for their country. The fact that they could be on two different sides of the argument never interfered with Phil’s ability to love the movies that these artists created. Gregory Peck obviously was a political “Liberal”, but the same thing applies. His being a “Liberal” never interfered with Phil’s enjoyment of his work.
Bob Dylan is still alive and recording.
Thanks, Lisa! Bowser out!
LOL!
Congratulatins on making such an great movie> I look forward ot seeing it when it gets to Santa Monica in March.
Meegan, Ken and Michael thank you so much for being here!
Again next weeek it’s William Kunstler: Disturbing the Universe
Thanks! See you there!
To all a good night.
wow – some serious 70′s street cred here at the lake…thanks
I still have the I Ain’t Marchin’ Any More cd in my car and listen to it at least once a week. Even
my teenage kids know the lyrics to most of the songs. We learned to play walking blues on the guitar when I was in high school listening to Phil’s songs and one of the guys in my hootch in Nam used to play Tape from California (along with Tammy Wynette) while I was there.
RIP, Phil. I hope you found some peace.