Repulsive garden gnome Gary Bauer:
Few Americans would deny that Judeo-Christian beliefs and values informed the Founding of this country and that they continue to shape much of American life today. Nor would many of us deny that Americans who embrace Islamic values are a distinct minority here.
This is silly. What are the key differences between “Judeo-Christian” and “Islamic” values? They’re all monotheistic, they all get a kick out of God pranking Abraham, they all seem fond of the same real estate, they’ve all been used by the good and the nasty alike to justify goodness and nastiness.
Where precisely one might discover a meaningful ontological split between the “Judeo-Christians” and the Musselmen that one might not also discover betwixt the Judeos and the Christians is a most perplexing kettle of waffles. On this score Bauer offers us no enlightenment, but rather stale, sullen identity politics whining, there’s a shocker.
I raise these two facts because of an emerging reality: that, in a variety of contexts, American Muslims are treated better than American Christians.
Er, sure. And American Muslims are treated well…?
The notion that American Muslims face discrimination, even to the point of violence, is often posited by America’s elites. But that idea evaporates under scrutiny. Remarkably few hate crimes are reported against Muslims (fewer than one-eighth those against Jews). What’s more, Muslim immigration to America has risen sharply since September 11, 2001, and Muslims thrive, economically and educationally, once they arrive.
Whew! (*Cough* Murfreesboro *cough*) I guess it was all a bad dream. And that Bauer begins his column by spewing a blithe “everybody knows” bit of doxa about how “Islamic values” are somehow not “founding American.”
And the evidence of how Christians are Cruelly Oppressed? Here is the choicest bullshit:
If Muslims were treated like Christians, Muslims would be mocked by late night TV talk show hosts and lampooned in crude cartoon parodies.
MOCKED by a LATE NIGHT TV TALK SHOW HOST? My stars! And your Lord n’ Savior complained to his dad because he was only just going to get crucified. Weenie.
These are some pretty weak-assed stigmata. But then also:
If Christianity were treated like Islam, our students would be taught a white-washed version of Christian history, with the troubling bits miscast or omitted from textbooks and lesson plans.
!
If Christians were treated like Muslims, conspicuous Christianity would be celebrated by our elites as a sign of our diversity and open-mindedness, not disparaged as an embarrassment, a nuisance and a breach of the law.
Nabokov, on “themes which are utterly taboo as far as American publishers are concerned”: these include “the total atheist who lives a happy and useful life, and dies in his sleep at the age of 106.”
Exactly.
And as far as the notion that “conspicuous Christianity” is some sort of millstone in modern America, I submit as evidence the noxious little toadstool Gary Fucking Bauer, who has proven conclusively that “conspicuous Christianity” can quite successfully prevent all sorts of sniveling little shits from ever having to do an honest day’s work in all of their squalid detestable lives.



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wedTHERSday!love the tags dood
E-vening, danka
THERSday!
Hate to tell ol’ Gary this, but those Orthodox Judeo values are largely indistinguishable from those Muslim ones.
Also, what you got against gnomes that you would wish that on them?
(late) THERS!
They all share the first book! They are all branches of the same faith. Kinda like this.
Wild. I’m on a Islam defense kick, since Muslims are so abhorred lately, but an atheist personally.
And since we’re on this topic, where are the live and let live Christian liberals on the subject? I never see them on the Gorillas Guides posts.
I’m sorry, I can’t tell what this thread is about.
I know Christians, I know Jews and I know Muslims. People are people. Same God. Same defensive defensive bs, if you ask me. Except for a few. Them, I love. But, it’s been a long holiday and I’m too tired to distinguish what’s being said in the above. Sorry Thers. Too old and tired tonight.
You’re kidding, right?
Let those who can comprehend, understand.
No.
My fave line, of many in this post.
Btw, Thers, dude – I think you mean “dies” not “does” in that Nabokov quote at the end…..
It’s about how Gary Bauer is a professional weasel.
thers — would you like me to fix that?
I know the feeling. I make a point to counter the Islamophobia in my classes when I can, but it is sometimes an uphill battle. Had a student in my intro class this fall who was rabidly anti-Arab and wanted to fight with me every time I said anything nice about them.
*heh* Aloha Thers, I love the fact that with each new ‘Son’ of Abraham arising, that our ‘Sons of Abraham’ have progressed forward in their ‘beliefs’…!
Yah, typo, thnx all
refresh and does is now dies
Wait? They’re not? What universe does this guy inhabit? Cause it’s not the same one I’m in.
George Washington was a deist and avoided church like the plague. Thomas Jefferson was a deist for all intents and purposes and avoided church like the plague. Who’d I leave out?
Sigh. I’m so old I can remember being taught – with no controversy whatsoever – that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, were all based on belief in the same single God — of course, Muslims then agreed that we were all “People of the Book.”
Course, if we weren’t bombing and attacking two Muslim countries there might not be so many who’ve abandoned that attitude…
That is, like, so Zen worthy-
This pretty much sums up my feelings.
thanks dood
Franklin, certainly. Not so sure about John Adams.
But Jefferson – lordy, he made his own Bible, cutting out all the “miracle” parts and just keeping Jesus’s parables and wisdom. No magic.
Exactly! Has that changed at some point during my atheism and I just didn’t notice?
Oh yeah, Tom Paine was an atheist.
Sorry to beg off so early, folks, but we’re on this whirlwind holiday tour where we exhibit the children to relatives… little ones crashed, & I am outta gas. Niters!
g’nite thers — hope your tank gets filled back up soon
Night Thers. You could always have the children stuffed. Less hassle.
KIDDING!
Yeah. I never had this kind of problem in the past. It has only been in the past few years that it has come up. Back when I was in Chicago, I had a student who was the imam for a mosque in the northern suburbs. We had a lot of long discussions about Islam and peoples perceptions. The class he was taking was a series of ethnographic case studies, one of which was southern Iraqi Arabs.
Getting hard not to notice these days, isn’t it? yeah, I hear crazy “Christians” say “Allah” is not the same as “God.”
I guess Pennsylvania had the right idea back in the ’60′s when I moved there; along with P.E., World Religions (oh it might have been called World Cultures) which covered all the world’s “great religions,” J, C, I, Buddhism, and Confucianism.
(Wiccans had not really been heard of yet, at least not mainstream)
Madison hated organized religion, as did Franklin.
easier to transport that way for sure…
What amuses me no end, is that when people despise our godlessness, but then, without irony, claim we have no morality, while helping someone.
Real People. Don’t need validation from anybody, much less assholes.
Who was the motive force for separation of church and state?
Yup. Nobody out there preaching hate against Muslims, or anything, no sirree!
Not.feeding.trolls.
Nope and for all the mouth breathing furor claiming a difference, Allah is also the word used by Arab Christians to describe their deity (since it is Arabic for “god”).
Nighters!
You are something else, Kelly. That’s all I’m going to say.
Lower maintenance costs too.
Sounds like a deist to me.
And by the same token I don’t need the approval of somebody who makes a living by stoking hatred.
REAL Christians speak English! Just like Jesus!
I’d really like to say, “Duh!” but…
Even before all this crap began – back in the ’80′s, a perfectly nice, intelligent, kind woman I worked with who led a lunchtime Bible group and had a decent college degree made one of those comments on the lines of “we use the KJV Bible because its the original.” Not quite “English was good enough for Jesus and it’s good enough for me” but close.
She was smart enough that, when I stared at her dumbfounded, she blushed and caught on right away.
And now much much dumber people are actually in charge.
Dammit, when am I going to have a chance to use a phrase like this in every day conversation?
I might have to crucify something — maybe a whole Pollo al Diablo staked on the grill — just so I can use that phrase.
What is your chosen beverage tonight, ma’am?
Probably, though I do not really care. The only thing that matters in all of this is that they were not devout Christians and mostly deplored organized religion. As they enshrined in the Treaty of Tripoli (1796), America is no no sense a Christian nation.
I’m thinking of cross-stitching it on a pillow…
Ya know, I think I will have a drink tonight. Thanks. :)
Well, amen to that, friend.
Guess I’m taking off …. see ya.
Where’s the stigmata…? ;-)
LMAO – why didn’t I think of that? I need to replace my collection of cross-stitched “BITE ME” pillows anyhow.
g’nite demi
Yep. It still amuses me how many people think the deity’s name is actually “God” rather than YHWH. God know what they would think if I translated my Jewish colleague’s last name (Bar-el) for them.
Night demi! Sleep well beautiful :)
Night!
Hmmmmmmmmm…..:)
I am always made happy in my own knowledge; particularly since I’m a Greek and Latin freak, with a smattering of ancient Hebrew and Aramaic.
I know the Creeds, and I know myself. The difference in reality of language vs belief is in magnitudes.
(((DD)))
Btw, Doc… What’s the latest tally on the number names for ‘God’…? ;-)
Is this a contest?
Well, are you counting Angel names? Cause you know they all have g-d in them some how.
Like Gabriel/Jibreel. “El” is the biggie in both names, yanno.
Beyond counting (or caring on my part). As a militant agnostic (I don’t know and I don’t give a damn!), I am only interested in religion as a cultural system.
Tipping my hat to you, Suz.
They would insist he’s Superman’s uncle.
As with my colleague, Dr. “Son of God” (even if she is a woman).
I think I’ve tried em all and the best damn falafel I ever had was in Toronto (around the corner from Kensington Market) made by a Rastafarian.
Not really since there’s only one ‘God’…! What mantle one would try to drape upon him is their own business…! *g*
Superman’s aunt then.
Micha – EL
Gabrie – EL
Be EL zebub
People don’t grokk ancient languages. They should before they opine on doctrine and shit.
That is a matter of conjecture and some here would assert that you overstate the number by one.
‘evening, all-
A T-shirt I saw a while back:
MILITANT AGNOSTIC
I don’t know and you don’t either.
As I recall, the Hebrew “El” actually translates as “Lord” (hence Be-el-zebub, the Lord of Flies).
One too many, eh…? 8-P
Great. Now there’ll be no living with M-EL Brooks.
*cough* … why dontcha ask a Hindu ?!!
*Ducks and runs*
Or worse, M-El Gibson, who already has a bit of a God complex.
How many thousand do you have these days?
Maybe we want the same word, maybe we don’t in the case of “El”
But really, tell me a different name for “Voice of God” and “Gift of God” and I’ll be good with that.
Now that’s scary.
Man, I hate to depart the word games, but again, gotta give a pill to a verrry reluctant kitty. I’d ask you to pray for me, but this is the wrong crowd, I think.
Anyway, gnite, everybody.
Petro!
Nite. Be forceful!
Senator !
The Hindus perfected the formula to stop religious Wars … create so many Gods that by the time you get to the last ones, you’re so old that you’ve forgotten why you want to fight in the first place ! *g*
Aw…do they get new ones from time to time?
good luck tejan
Yo !
The secret ingredient is … um … enlightenment !
El Metatron?
ROFL … Priceless !
How’s the family enjoying the Holidays, RonD ?
The Mardi Gras of Gawds.
Oh Snap…! That’s right all those incarnations and all, eh…? ;-)
Sheesh. I waited a moment too long….he was drowsing…just came trotting out of the bedroom and headed for his uneaten supper.
I’ll have to wait till he quiets again.
(I have not been completely successful…he actually threw the thing up a good minute after I thought he’d gotten it down the other night.)
One must be very wily, and quick, as well as forceful with this one.
Kitteh doesn’t like his medicine.
We’re into the Hundreds of Millions and counting, last time I checked … I hear Steve Jobs is getting serious consideration ! *g*
You probably know this, but just in case, wrap kitty in a towel first. Saved me much flesh and blood.
No. Nor being manhandled.
This is a very spiritual bunch, though.
Hands on the Monitors for tejana’s Kitty … OHHMMMMMMMM !
Hiya Margaret, Kelly, Suz, …
Don’t wanna hijack the thread – we know everyone does not love kittehs – but even with a wrap, he is amazingly fast as getting those paws out and weaving and bobbing with his head while I try to hold his jaws shut…. Oh well.
Better go anyway. Thanks all!
I thought that was a great idea. Then I tried it on Kuroneko. I’ll put it this way: I’m glad her last pill was yesterday.
hey petro
This is why I always insisted in cash in me old whore life.
Oh, mil gracias, Petro. Maybe that will work!
No, I think many of those names are intended that way, though the literal translation would be “Voice of the Lord” and “Gift of the Lord” used in much the same way we do.
Hey, it’s Late Night. No hijacking here. Just like Morning Swim, everything seems to be on topic.
Cash is always the way to go for young whores and old alike.
That’s what I said, D, unless there’s some confusion?
It always helps … great healing energy at FDL, always.
Not sure if they still do, but certainly in the not too distant past. In my rather muddled understanding of Hindu theology, every god has many avatars or incarnation (each of which gets its own worship) and they are all emanations of the Trimurti (the Hindu Trinity of Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva), who are all really one being.
Speaking of cash, you know I had to turn down several offers of cash today in the comments of my diary. Not that I don’t appreciate, (and need) it but I would never turn Jane’s platform into a way to solicit money. That’s just bad taste.
*heh* You think the ‘Morning Swim’ is bad… Stick around for LLN, M’dear…! ;-)
A guy has a different view of sidewalks, garages, and dark streets once he has worked ‘em.
Just saying’
Night! Good luck to you and good health to the kitteh!
Tell me about it…
Wasn’t quite sure what you intended, but was basically agreeing with you.
I do hope you take up the offer for shelter, if need be, M’dear…! 8-(
Maybe someday I will. For some reason I try to stick with a “normal” sleep cycle. I don’t want to get into a no schedule schedule.
Exactly right ! Hinduism is a monotheism – one formless God in infinite forms. And the male & female aspects appeared at the same time and are equally important.
In time though, it became twisted by chauvinists and “Brahmins”, who produced the caste system.
Okay … time for some Chocolate Martinis ! *g*
I hope I don’t need it but it’s looking like I will. :( Very depressed about it all just now.
We need to talk about this.
And not here.
Wo Hoo!
Not tonight though. I’m beat and about to pass out.
((( Kelly )))
Your Heart is as big as Colorado.
Please email me later.
Extra Large Glass comin’ for ya, buddy !
About 45 years ago, when I was going through my youthful apostasy and actively seeking, I read a lot on Hindu religion (along with a lot of others). Even read the Rig Veda, Bhagavad Gita, and Upanishads for all the good it did me (also have read in their entirety the Bible, the Koran, and the Book of Mormon, some Buddhist scripture, along with a lot of mythology).
My thoughts and prayers, Peg…! *g*
And I hope you know how much I love you not only for your concern but for who you are. There were several minutes yesterday when cbl, oldnslow and myself sounded less like pups and more like the Kelly Canfield fan club.
I know. You already spent a bunch of heart-cred today. Go rest!
Night.
Shup
Think I will toddle off as well. Take care all.
The Upanishads are extremely useful, even in this day and age. The Gita is condensed wisdom and highly misunderstood.
The Golden Rule is the common thread that runs through all great teachings and teachers.
Man, I’ve gotta get out to Big Sky Country with a Great Bottle of Cognac so we can have some chats …
I won’t. All props to you my friend. I wouldn’t be on this blog like I am if not for you. I would still be a lurker, rare commentator. That’s just a fact.
Night DrD. And goodnight all. :)
G’nite Sir !
I’m out as well … enjoy the Chocolate Martinis, y’all.
Wishing you all a Prosperous & Happy 2011 !
*gah* It’s gonna go straight to his head…! The suffering…! ;-)
O GAWD I love you you damn dork.
These are interesting.
http://haikuleaks.tetalab.org/
g’nite dr dick and peggy
g’nite petro
Dayam skippy…! We do know what is ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ we just refuse to believe it…! *gah*
Back in a few…
some foreclosure news:
-forgot the link. on another ‘puter. but a FL court certified a class action against a FL mega foreclosure law firm and its name esquire, David J. Stern. This, of course, says nothimng of the merits of that case, but is good news and allows the case to proceed as a class action instaed of making the people who’ve been allegedly screwed by this guy and his firm sue undividually.
- the lawyers staffing the forclosure mills are kids out of law school who didn’t really know what the fuck they were doing. half right. they’re kids. why this is considered news, i don’t get but this, after all, is Orlando and our paper has a “Daily Disney” section
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/fl-foreclosure-novice-lawyers-20101227,0,7092931.story
-finally, more from The Sentinel: Hedo turkoglu is picking up right where he left off. Go Hedo! He my man!!!! Welcome back to The City Beautiful!!
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_magic/2010/12/hedo-turkoglu-has-picked-up-right-where-he-left-off-with-magic.html
and finally, finally, tomorrow is the annual Citrus Parade in Orlando. All the floats are made of oranges, grapefruits and tangerines. after the parade, all of the fruit is donated to homeless shelters. nice
Late to the thread Thers, but, one of yer best, if yer still up and around.
Nicely done!
night
(A Bauer quote from the post.)
I would love to see the true history of christianity taught in schools; from the murders of millions of “witches”, genocidal exterminations of the Cathars and other heresies, the Inquisition. That is an important part of world history – since the catholic church literally ruled the world for a thousand years – that is left out. Then we could progress to the massacres and genocides perpetrated since the “Reformation” and the emergence of protestants.
I’m sure the Bauers of the world would be thrilled – right?
If you or Kelly and others are still around, Kelly IS a heart of gold.
And so are you.
Wishin ya well, wishin I could help . . . but ya got my wishes, all of them, for things to get better fast. Take the help, btw . . . ;-) You can ALWAYS pay it forward. I really believe in that.
Grok has one K.
Couldn’t resist.
“Judeo Christian beliefs and values informed the founding of this country”.
I’ve never figured how slavery and genocide of Native Americans are good Christian values.
I don’t know why people keep saying “They all worship the same single God.” The Muslims point out that the Christians actually worship a Trinity, and say they are, therefore, polytheists. As a guy who went to Sunday School every week until I got old enough to choose for myself I tend to agree. The Christians reply that this is a “mystery,” and that you have to accept it on faith until you understand. I don’t know enough about the Jewish faith, but I understand they don’t much believe in hellfire, so that’s vastly different from both Christians and Muslims.