Benazir Bhutto’s legacy is tangled and complex, and Baughman’s film attempts to show the many sides of this complex woman who attended university during the civil rights, anti-war and feminist revolutions and agreed to an arranged marriage; went to a cabinet meeting in the afternoon and gave birth the next morning; stopped all meetings at 7pm on Friday nights for dinner with her family; negotiated political deals; embraced her faith, yet opposed those aspects which required women to submit to men; and strove to restore Pakistan to the glorious days of the Islamic empire when scholarship and art were celebrated. She modernized Pakistan, bringing health projects and high tech to the country, yet fell prey to tribalism and and repressive tradition.
The film begins with the exit of the British from India and the creation of Pakistan as a separate Muslim state, the military buildup of Pakistan and the political rise of Benazir’s father, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto. He was Pakistan’s first democratically elected president and his dynasty is compared to the Kennedys’. Once elected on a platform of food, clothes and shelter, Zulfikar released political prisoners and made peace with India without compromising his peoples’ position.
But when India became a nuclear power, Z.A. Bhutto wanted the same for Pakistan, a move which concerned the West. Henry Kissinger warned that the United States would
make an example out of you
And curiously, President Bhutto–who had appointed General Zia to his cabinet to make the military happy and increased the focus on Islam in Pakistan to help secure his position–was charged with murder and sentenced to death, but not before anointing his first born child Benazir (rather than his first born son Murtaza) as the leader of the Pakistan People’s Party. He told Benazir–educated at Radcliffe and Oxford–that she would make him prouder than Indira Ghandi had made her father. General Zia, however, was in charge of country and with the invasion of Afghanistan by the USSR, the United States supported Zia, and
[a] sordid dictator became a plucky fighter for freedom.
Textbooks for madrasas were published by the University of Nebraska as the United States propped up Pakistan and underwrote the mujahadeen.
Benazir’s brothers were accused of attempting to overthrow the government from outside the country, and Benazir who remained in Pakistan was jailed. She was eventually released; while in the South of France with her family, her youngest brother was poisoned and died. General Zia was assassinated in a plane crash (possibly caused by an explosion in a box of mangoes); the American Ambassador to Pakistan Arnold Raphel and General Herbert M. Wassom, the head of the U.S. Military aid mission to Pakistan were among the other officials on board who were killed.
And so Benazir, who participated in an arranged and seemingly happy marriage with financier Asif Ali Zardari, was elected Prime Minister, breaking the glass ceiling for Muslim women. Benazir instituted massive social changes–releasing political prisoners, providing clean drinking water, instituting a massive polio vaccination program, opening 48,000 primary schools, lifting censorship and creating all women police stations. Benazir Bhutto changed how Islamic women viewed themselves and how Islamic men viewed women. To her it was important to be a strong leader, but she also recognized that
It’s important to be a woman, because a woman brings nurturing aspects
But the military opposed her, as did the powerful ISI ( Inter Service Intelligence, a combo CIA/FBI/SAVAK/NSA), and both propaganda and political campaigns were launched against her, her husband was jailed for corruption, and she was ousted.
When she returned to power again, Benazir sought to find a way to integrate the Taliban into Pakistan. Issues of corruption escalated, and her husband was charged with being behind the murder of her oldest brother Murtaza, who was also her political opponent. Zardari was jailed again. One report cleared Bhutto and her husband of corruption, but Benazir remained in exile, taking speaking engagements to support her family. Benazir took the international stage, discussing the issues of the resettled mujahadeen and the Islamic refugees, and watching as madrasas became the only places children could learned to read and write–and the proving ground for the Taliban and terrorism.
With Pakistan increasing in importance in the post 9/11 world, it became clear to Pakistani President Perez Musharraf–no doubt with pressure from the West– that Benazir’s presence could be beneficial. But her return to her homeland in 2007 was fatal.
In her political will, Bhutto left rulership of the PPP to her son once he finishes his studies; the party is now being run by her widower.



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Before we start, just a couple quick notes: Please refresh your browser every minute or so to see new comments, questions and answers. To reply to specific comment, hit the reply button underneath it and then type away. Always after a comment or question hit “send comment.”
Please stay on topic–in this case the film Bhutto, Benazir Bhutto and the changes she wrought, the politics of Pakistan, the development of the Taliban, women in politics…
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Hello Duane and welcome to Firedoglake Movie Night. And thank you all for being here tonight!
Congratulations, Duane on Bhutto which has just opened. It’s a really deep and informative documentary, epic
thank you lisa,thank you fdl movie night, im honored to be here with you talking about this film and this critically important country and woman.
The film gives such insight into the geopolitics involved, and shows the huge hand the US played in the region. And raises some uncomfy questions about that and other forces at play.
yeah, thats a real eye opener for some folks. our hand in the geo-politics of that region hasnt always been pretty, and it certainly hasnt been effective. but you cant tell the story or understand how pakistanis or south asia relates to america or americans w/out fleshing it out
its as critical a part of the story as re-telling the story of partition at the beginning of the flick
I can’t wait to see this film. The trailer looks very good. Didn’t Ms. Huffington know Benazir Bhutto?
Your footage was great–and some very big names–Condaleeza Rice, wow! I really appreciated the hisotry and the dissenting voices, like her niece.
The press reports (and who knows how accurate they are) suggest BB was not as careful about her personal safety as she should have been. What’s your take on that?
Pakistan’s spy service who I presume works with the military created the Taliban, Al Quieda and Ossama with their Muslim Fundamentalism.
Kissinger thus Nixon helped create them???
thank you i hope you do. in what city do you live? i can tell u if the film is coming to your town. and yes, miss huffington is in the film and went to cambridge/oxford w/benazir and was a good friend
The assassinations–one brother poisoned, another killed by snipers, Zia’s assassination, her father hanged, her own death. so much destabilization. And at the root of it, religion used for power grabs
Thanks for being here Duane.
I’ve not yet seen your Bhutto film, but as the topic of Pakistan itself is likely to continue to have profound effects on the US, indeed, the entire world, for the foreseeable future, I’m really looking forward to seeing Bhutto.
Many have observed that Pakistan is almost a failed state. Do your observations agree with that evaluation?
And regarding the control exercised by the ISI/Military, and the rapidity of the pendulum swinging from civilian to military control over the years, do you see, as many analysts do, another military coup as probable in the near term?
Kissinger was prophetic– ugly.
I live in Sacramento. Thanks.
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2010/09/15/if-blackwater-couldnt-keep-benazir-bhutto-safe-why-is-state-still-contracting-with-them/
Pakistan gets American military aid given the horrible job they have done in Iraq and Pakistan was Bhutto Pressured to hire Blackwater.
America likes to give aid then they make sure the aid is spent on politically connected companies rather than highest quality or lowest bidder.
As well as replying to Mary on where the film will be showing, can you let me know when/if us Twin Citians can expect a showing here on the frozen tundra? *g*
she was a woman who learned from her father and took very seriously her responsibility to her legacy,and it was unquestionably:country first. her children new it.her husband new it. itsverydifficult for others to understand thatlevel ofsacrifice. especially when they know how much shewas giving up. she had an amazing life, with loving children and husband, beauty, the best education in the world, etc… but she felt pakistan was destined for greater things and she always believed she was meant to be part of the solution.
so i guess that a long winded way of saying, security wasnt her top priority and it certainly wasnt gen. musharaff’s either.
Perez Musharraf claims that the protection she had was the best. Um…
I think it goes beyond prophetic this gets into direct cause and effect..this is huge!
actually, the film endeavors to point out that the mujahadeen was created in an effort to beat back the soviets from afghanistan in the late seventies and early eighties. they coelesed after beating the russians, primarily because america was on the first bus out of town and didnt stick around to help build a civil society. its another one of those foriegn policy missteps whose reverberations we are paying for up to today.
I was touched by what a great parent she was, the love and care she gave her children.
It was shocking to me that quote from her mother at the beginning about how she was disappointed in having a daughter, that evne dogs and cats give birth to sons. And then her mother turning against Benazir politically and supporting her brother–no doubt a reaction to trad Muslim views.
It wasa tribute ot her father’s progressive views that he indicated that Benazir was the most capable of his children for the role of leader.
BHUTTO – website , showdates
Great! Thanks!
What I find dissatisfying about your A is that, if she is really the kind of person you describe, how could personal security not be top priority, since all of the other attributes become worthless if she is, as she was, assassinated. Sounds like, despite her larger concerns, her personal legacy was a death wish.
Pakistan intelligence favored the fundy Taliban over other rebel groups in Afghanistan.
I agree America left a failed state and that made things worse.
thank you. i wouldnt call pakistan a failed state. id call it a country in its infancy and struggling to find its feet at only 64 years old this type of tumult and national and global uncertainty is a fact of life. remember america’s struggles at that time. remember our own feaudal families still running our politics with the adams and the roosevelts later on. i have guarded optimism for pakistans future.
re: military coup.
this is one of the reasons why im optimistic. i believe there is a new respect for civilian leadership from the current military leadership and gen kayani. if the military was interested in moving, they wouldve done so around the recent tragedy and confusion linked with the floods. they did not. they worked with the civilian govt of pres zardari and saved lives. i think this is an amazing sign of perhaps better co-existence bewteen military and democratic govt
What about her Husband Mr Ten Percent was his nickname why stay with him was she forced into the marriage did his family have huge political connections or was he the scapegoat and she was in on it whats the inside scoop?
What makes you think the U.S. didn’t stick around, or that the U.S. has the slightest ability to create a civil society anywhere, including within its own borders. The U.S. did stick around Afghanistan to try to overthrow Najibullah, who outlasted the Soviet withdrawal by 3 or so years. As for the U.S. creating a civil society, I think I need provide no evidence for its complete incompetence at that task, since the record is sooo overwhelming.
thank you. the film is projected to roll out in 66 cities. being a midwesterner id love to see it hit the twin cities. if the film continues to be successful in major markets like DC/boston/chicago/nyc then i would hope it might make it to the Tundra
thats kind of true.thatsprobly why the words used over and over inreviews like the nytimes, la times,variety etc…call the filma”greek tragedy”or shakespearean
i dont think youre far off
I had the pleasure of seeing a few of her interviews. She was a determined and loyal soul for her country.
Rhey used it so often I was loath to…however it also comes up in the film–the epic drama of the family’s lives.
yes, one of the many interesting ironies of this story which has legions of them, is that this incredibly indepndent woman was a part of an arranged marriage. she “stuck” with him b/c their arrangement turned into a love match that most of her friends and outsiders both agree was real
Is Gen. Musharaff a suspect who are the suspects as far as Pakistan’s people are concerned?
i agree with you, and thats my point…the u.s. mayve maintained a military interest in the region. but not a hearts and minds interest. and before long, not even military. afghans were left, as peter jennings said in one news report, to shed each others blood all on their own.
Thanks for your insight!
Are you concerned that external forces, primarily the US foreign, military and intelligence-driven policies with regard to Pakistan’s centrality in our Global War on Terrorism – GWOT, but not exclusively just the US (others include India, China, Russia, Afghanistan itself), will be the matches that light the miliary coup fire yet again, or does your optimism also include the belief that the Pakistan of today can withstand these dangerous outsiders?
yes. dec 27 is actually the 3rd anniversary of her assasination
A reformer a real reformer and a Grifter? Well stranger things have happened but I’m guessing they had some fights.
I actually don’t find arranged marriages that turn out well ironic. I have only 2 acquaintances who had them, so very small sample, but they both have turned out well. Both are Asian (one Indian, one Nepalese, both highly educated) settled in the U.S. Being outside one’s own culture is inherently emotionally destabilizing, I would guess, and being with someone related to one’s roots could provide a core stability, esp if one’s parents are perceptive.
The U.S. winning hearts & minds!!! Surely you jest. The only arrow in the U.S. quiver is military. Well, maybe blackmail, prior to wikileaks.
musharaff left the country and lives in exile in london. i interviewed him in philly while he was on his rehabilitation tour, if you will. the un investigation on the assasination of BB pointed a stern and sure finger at musharaff and his administration and held him responsible for her death for refusing to provide security, for covering up and witholding key threats against her, and for destroying the crime scene just 2 hours after the murder by ordering the hosing away of forensic evidence. just 2 wks ago, the police chief from Rawalpindi where the murder took place, and the police officer who used the hose were arrested and case is working from the bottom up
BevW’s comment at 22 above has a link with a showdate in Minneapolis beginning January 28th, so I guess I’ll have to suck it up and cross the river from St. Paul.
It’s been a while, so I wonder if Minneapolis still requires I present a passport? *g*
Thanks for the update as long as the Pakistani people know what happened they are better educated than Americans about who won the Bush vs Gore election.
That gives me more hope for them than us.
im fairly optimistic that a page has been turned in our relationship with pakistan as a result of the kerry/lugar bill that for the first time in our dealings with this critical ally, sends 7.5 billion in civilian aid for water projects, health care, education, infrastructure — with ZERO militiary strings attached. the obama administration deserves credit for this change of long held, and long failed practice
Musharraf has all the physical and public attributes of a genuine nebbish. Since you’ve interviewed him, can you tell us why he isn’t what he appears to be.
please see it and tell me what you think. and thank you bevW for knowing more about where this film is showing than i do. i owe you a popcorn.
Thank you…so interesting. The pictures of her in the crowd looked like an accident waiting to happen.
That was an uplifting and hopeful moment.
I don’t see it in here in the comments, but do you address her comment about OBL having been killed?
nebbish is fairly accurate physical description of the former dictator
i do not. this story was like peeling an onion. there were a million different stories i couldve chased down and it wouldve never gotten finished and i wouldve gone broke considering i funded the film myself to maintain 100% independence and control over the product
I am like lsls and think more of her words than the words our politicians throw at us.
The more I think of it, the more I feel she was assassinated for just that reason. It was way too big a secret for the powers that be.
Congratulations for staying independent. Can you tell us a bit about the corruption charges leveled at Bhutto and her husband. I read that the charges were actaully rigged and that officials were bribed ot create them.
BTW< Bhutto gives an amazing look at politics and backrom deals–how a popularly elected leader can get hamstrung by opponents in the govt who stonewall reforms, how stories can get created and spun, candidates funded by opposition…
I’m no expert on Pakistan politics, but I felt she had more of the populist about her, with a willingness to alter the status quo to the betterment of the average Pakistani, than any other Pakistani politician of her time.
Which was probably a large part of why she was assassinated.
For those who are wondering what I’m talking about, here is the clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpsvaTIa7Kc
The Henry Kissinger Song.
Duane, were you able to freely investigate in Pakistan or I should ask did you have problems?
Thanks so much for making this film Duane, and for being here with us today.
Can you tell us what the biggest challenge was in making the film? I’m sure there must have been competing legacy narratives to resolve, at the very least.
sure. benazir and asif zardari have been accused of myriad types of corruption. zardari spent 13 years in prison on suspicion of corruption out of a 17 year marriage. never convicted. and the courts in pakistan are perfectly capable of convicting folks. Benazir spent years in prison in class C (the lowest level) prison in the middle of the sukkor desert. again, never convicted. and always on the charges leveled by political opponents. so were they guilty? courts never found them to be. that tends to be the overriding nature of pakistani politics. smear. accuse. jail. sometimes kill.
Were you able to come to an independent judgment on their guilt or innocence of the charges of which they were accused? Where does their personal fortune come from?
yes. its a much more open society than our western minds have been told or shown. i spent much of my time there in the pakistani offices of the TV stations digging out archival news footage from the days when the dictators like zia and musharaff kept certain footage under loc kand key. many pakistanis hadnt even seen some of the footage of benazir or Zulfiqir that i found and brought to this film. so, no it was more tedious and time consuming, than a matter of folks blocking my access
WOW! Just wow. We really are being kept dumb by the media.
thank YOU jane for having me. thank you for your incredible leadership on issues that are so crucial to this country. biggest challenge, hmmm, there were so many because im a first time (and last time) filmmaker. but it was a constant worry of mine that i would fail somehow to show the tolerant islam that i know that religion to be, to show that country full of amazing and curious and loving people and not as this caricature of only poverty and a transit point for terror. THAT was diffuclt to achieve while weaving in Benazir’s legacy in helping to make it that way. i guess i feel like we succeeded in some small measure by how well the film was received in pakistan itself. it wasnt without criticism, but it remains the first US produced documentary to EVER run in commercial theaters in that country and it was held over for a 2 month extended run. im proud of that.
I am definitely looking forward to seeing the film. Congratulations!
You should be PROUD….what an accomplishment. And such a fascinating subject.
i have opinions like anybody else. but theyre irrelevant to this film.i tried my best to put a counter point to everypoint andmake it asbalanced a filmaspossible so the audience could argueabout it,agree or disagreeafter they saw it.
the Bhuttoswere one of ahandfulof ‘founding”familiesof pakistanwhowere granted ahuge tract of land inthepartitionof Indiaand pakistan.somesay thelandmass was asbig asLos Angeles county.
thank yousomuch.please let me know,good or bad,whatyoumake of it
How wonderful that it was so well accepted there.
I love the vision of Islam you show BB as having: Learning, arts–when I was in Istanbul this summer there was an exhibit highlighting the advances Islamic culture had made during the West’s Dark Ages. BB made such an effort to bring a economic future (as well as health reform–water polio vaccinations) to her country, as well as giving women everywhere, not just in Islamic countries, a strong role model
Wow that is a remarkable achievement. Congratulations, that is incredible.
Was there anything you left out of the film you now wish you had included? If the film was 5 min longer, what would it be?
thank you so much. iamproud to be able to makea filmthatmakes a difference. helps others (me included) understand this critical region a little better.
And to search for the truth….how powerful.
thankslisa. you’re fortunate to travel to thatregion. its eye opening to say the least. especially thru awoman’s eyes.BB was the first inher family to go without burqa. almostmetaphorically, her vision from thatday onwas one of expanding views for all islamic women — andwomen everywhere. its another reasoni thought this story wasso long overdue. theres anoldsaying,thathollywood iswhere stories about strong women and heroines go to die.
Heh. I live in a U.S. house built in 1817, that is a brick & stone “farmhouse” but far too fine for even a prosperous farmer of the time. Made their money by selling off parcels of huge land tract Dutch/English govs granted settlers is my guess, but U.S. history on this kinda stuff is opaque, and I am not interested enough in the history to track it down after almost 200 years. But the general patterns are pretty clear.
too long!!!
seriously, it is such a thick film. thereis so much we dont get told. so much we dont get taught. somuch we dont know or are misinfomred about. i wanted this to be aconversation starter.if i added anything more,ifeel iwouldve risked losing my audience.
And, she was an incredibly courageous woman.
Why the last time? On to other creative endeavors (like earning a living *g*) or driven to exit by some of the underlying insanity of the film industry?
Just so you know, I have almost zero inside knowledge of the film industry and the little I do have, I’ve only acquired from an infrequent aside by Jane (she doesn’t do “dish” *g*).
actually, theres a line where tariq ali says the text books in the religious extremist madrassas which teach K is for kalishnakov, were all printed at the university of nebraska. i wouldve loved to have tracked down that story. but i digress.
Were it not for Islam, western society might still be living in the Dark Ages. A thought which tickles my brain, since, without a model to the contrary, western society seems determined to fall back into.
Duana thank you so much for making Bhutto and for being here tonight.
And firepups, thanks agian for a great Movie Night!
Yep…and thank you for finding and sharing these treasures…..
both. you’re perceptive about the film industry. no fun. people not my idea of a good time. and by day job harkens for me and im really excited, after 3 years of doing this film, to get back to electing democrats — which is what i do to make a living.
thank you lisa. thank you jane. thank you bev. and fire dog lakers…thank you for supporting independent film and hapy happy holidays and remember to remember Benazir on dec 27
Thank you Lisa and Duane. This has been great and I want to see the film!
You’ll have to come back and tell us about that (the Dems part)
If the movie does not cover the editing of her BBC interview where she declared that Osama bin Laden was dead and who killed him, and if the movie does not cover the three thousand man army the CIA has there that could have been used to silence her, then this movie is a coverup.