Yes, of course, that must be it: All those self-hating rich Democrats in Congress just want to punish themselves to assuage their terrible rich-person guilt – who could possibly think otherwise?
I don’t really want to speak for the Democrats whom I feel increasingly estranged from, but I can’t let this foolishness pass unchallenged. So I will address it from my own non-rich progressive perspective, which I think is at least somewhat representative.
Simon is really employing two fallacies for the price of one. The first is that the desire to return the well-to-do’s tax brackets to their Clinton-era levels is somehow the same as implacable hatred. We are living in a time of extreme deficit hysteria, with the President and both parties buying into the right-wing fallacy that if we don’t balance the budget America will be destroyed. Set against that backdrop, the addition of another $800 billion to the debt boogeyman means even more pressure to cut social programs and Social Security, and to never spend anything on stimulus or unemployment insurance ever again.
It is simply cruel and unfair to funnel money away from the people who need it most and towards the people who need it least – especially in the middle of a prolonged recession with almost 10% unemployment – and that’s what we want to prevent.
The second fallacy is that we hate rich people simply for being rich, because we’re envious or communists or whatever. Not so, at least not for me. I have absolutely nothing against rich people in general, and I like and admire many of them. But I do hate rich people who believe that they are so valuable and important that they deserve to be rewarded with even more money just for being rich, even if it’s at the expense of someone who needs it far more than they do. Or those who complain that they’re some kind of persecuted minority because they might lose a tax cut that’s more than most Americans earn in an entire year. Maybe a million dollars doesn’t go as far as it used to, but it still goes a hell of a lot farther than an unemployment check… or no check at all.
And this kind of narcissistic greed is even harder to stomach when it emanates from someone who didn’t accumulate their wealth by building or creating something of value, but rather by inheriting it, or by gaming the financial system, or through outright fraud and predation. Or from those who make their living by injecting lies and poison, or lazy Beltway hackery, into the American bloodstream. They contribute nothing yet feel entitled to everything, resentful of the thought that some unemployed, impoverished or elderly deadbeat might take a few crumbs from the gilded table they did so little to earn.
So no, I don’t hate rich people – I hate selfish coldhearted assholes. Hey, here’s an idea: Instead of babbling about why Democrats shouldn’t hate the rich, maybe Roger Simon should be asking why Republicans hate everyone else.



172 Comments












Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
This just makes me so fucking ill I have no words anymore. As I said over at digby’s, the only job of both sides anymore is to keep alive some semblance of “opposition,” a la the guys dragging around the corpse in “Weekend at Bernie’s.”
O/T, re Dan Choi – have people seen this?
I really hate rich-people-defending arguments by rich people who hate liberals because they think they hate rich people because they’re rich. Also, I really hate Roger Simon’s killing so many strawmen.
Eli!
I just saw the headline a few minutes ago and now reading the post, it’s pretty much what I thought it would be. It’s a shame, but I can’t say it’s at all surprising with all the stress he must be under.
I really hate strawmen-defending arguments by strawmen who hate rich people because they think they hate strawmen because they’re straw.
Or something.
Buzz!
Democrats and Republicans fight poverty by giving all the money to rich people that waythe rich never become poor
Progressives love meritocracy and not hereditary transfer of wealth. Rise of Meritocracy is always hampered with Estate Taxes. That is a self-evident fact. Image a society not built by meritocracy which obviously America is NOT due to our revolutionary beginnings we will have poor quality engineers, lawyers, builders, teachers and doctors. What sort of quality of life that kind of society will have.
Milbank: Obama’s finally manning-up.
Simon: People should be proud of being ‘blblically’ poor.
Who’s up next?
one of my lovers is worth several zillion dollars. i don’t hate her, but i do pity her, sometimes. she’s relatively “new” money, and watching the games she has to play with other rich people just imbues me with a sense of pity and contempt. basically, she spends a lot of time (because of course she has nothing but time, not needing to “work” or anything like that) socializing with people to whom the most important social function is “proving we’re better than poor people.” it’s very silly and tiresome. i have other very wealthy family friends who are much the same. so much of the culture of today’s wealthy is all about: we’re better than the poor because we say so!
i don’t hate people because they are rich, i hate people who slaughter the innocent in the middle east for a tax cut, or who push the world closer to climate change disaster so they can make another 5% in capital gains this quarter. i don’t really understand the evil rich; does Dick Cheney think his grandchild will thank him for making her live in an underground bunker under a permanently black sky of nuclear fallout? i just don’t grok that. being rich doesn’t guarantee that one is evil, but it makes evil much easier. and we live in a particularly vile age in which our rich, unlike, say, the Mandarins of China or the Victorians of England, are not just rich and heartless, but also clodhoppingly stupid. that’s what i don’t like the most about our times. the rich aren’t just callous, they are unlettered and boring and culturally vacuous.
Eli,
You “progressives” don’t hate rich people, quite the contrary. The truth is you “progressives” hate poor people. And you are able to keep putting the screws to the poor while claiming to be their champion by tethering yourselves to the plutocratic, oligarchic Republicanized Democratic wing of the Repulican Party…………….
ELI!
I don’t hate rich people. I hate people who rape me, screw me and steal from me to enrich themselves.
Since there’s plenty of room for peeps to be both rich and to have a prosperous middle class, what I hate is peeps who think they can only get richer by impoverishing everyone else. It’s the Wall St. way. Predatory capitalism.
It all comes down to judging people by their actions and attitudes instead of their demographic categories. Which is how it should be. Assholes are assholes, and deserve scorn. Good people are good people, and deserve respect. But too often it’s the other way around.
MARGARET!
That’s very classist and narrow-minded of you.
I don’t hate rich people. I just feel better when they are not around. :)
More seriously, for me this issue is that the symbiotic relationship at least between the owning class and the rest of US society has broken down. It’s a problem of an imbalance of power (and power imbalances, whether economic, social, personal, etc., often lead to problems). When people have a responsibility to one another—and the more money and power one has, the more responsibility is required of them—societies function better. The more symbiotic the relationship, the higher the collective welfare, the more reciprocal altruism, the greater the empathy and the greater the meaningful human bonds. The less symbiotic, the more one sees selfishness, materialism, fear, punishment and control.
This is a finite world. There is only so much stuff to go around. You have to pay somewhere along the line. A society can decide to pay for their existence in a positive, mutually beneficial way or in a negative way. For example, it can either pay for jobs and education, or it can pay for cops and prisons. When some folks think they are exempt from this equation and are not beholden to other humans, things ultimately go poorly for everybody. Were all in this shit together, after all.
Yeah, if someone’s rich and thinks “Score! This is pretty nice!”, I’m okay with that. But if they’re rich and think “Damn! Look at that sucker over there – he still has some money! I want it!”, they can’t go to Hell soon enough for me.
I was a member of Gulf Coast MENSA before I joined the Navy. It was a fun group and I had a lot of friends there. When I was stationed in San Diego, I was lonely so I joined San Diego MENSA, thinking to meet some people and so forth. They turned out to be a crowd of people who liked to get together to discuss how superior they were to everybody else. I went to one general meeting and to one chess sig and never went again, though they kept trying to insist that I pay dues, (presumably so they could afford to keep getting together and congratulating each other over being “better” than everybody else. That was a horrible disappointment to me because self important people who joined the Gulf Coast group didn’t tend to stay around very long.
He can’t do that, because that would be class warfare, and that would be wrong.
Any other ideas?
Not to mention purist…
I read that Simon gibberish this morning and had to laugh. Especially his bit where he contended that 50% of the rich “earned” their money.
I’m sure amongst those who “earned” it he included the folks like Carly Fiorina who got paid off millions for destroying the companies they ran into the ground and then millions more so they’d go away.
Yeah, that’s really the way to “earn” the money, that’s for sure.
“Cost cutting” on Wall St started so low key. LBOs in the 1980s. After that, it was like vampires with a taste of blood. Of course, since they donated to political campaigns, the next thing you know, the rich got bailed out by USG every time they did something foolish. What I hate is corruption, esp of that particular sort.
“Darling, some people are just shits.” –William Burroughs
See page 16: http://books.google.com/books?id=84842d5sVowC&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=william+burroughs+obligate+shit&source=bl&ots=HyMLsK3K8Q&sig=LrLxWW4slvN_f3KX1JAQSCf2wLw&hl=en&ei=viYITbmfJIGglAfu6a2fAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
Yep those are the ones I truly detest though there is a great temptation to scorn those who are clueless about the realities of poverty too.
Heh. You joined MENSA thinking there was some other agenda other than proving their superiority to ever other human. That must have been in your naive days.
Have you ever suggested to her someone like Caroline Kennedy as an example to emulate? Don’t quite know how one could do that, but it seems to me that there are rich people who manage to find ways to be useful without having to work.
Heck, most work is for suckers. I wouldn’t do it if I didn’t have to.
One thing about assholes is that they are ubiquitous and omnipresent. They cut across class lines of wealth, race, religion, age, etc. One thing that you can always be sure of is that there is an asshole within a few hundred feet of you at all times.
I think it really must depend on the chapter. I went to a couple of Pittsburgh MENSA get-togethers, and they were all very sweet fun-loving people, with no hint of self-congratulation that I could see.
You misread my comment. Gulf Coast MENSA was totally not about that while the San Diego chapter was. I mentioned that twice in the comment in fact.
Zero sum vs. Bigger sum. It’s one of those things you have to wonder about, do the folks who assume it’s a zero sum game just assume that life is always going to the same no matter what they do, or do they just not see any other possibilities?
Do I hate rich people?
Yes…yes…****ing god yes!
I hate them with every fibre of my being.
The hedge fund guys ***ching at obama about being persecuted while poor people were complaining about not being able to eat…..
Seriously….**** these guys!
They whine that they can only get the limited edition super fancy cavier and not the ultra limited edition super fancy caviar while trying to cut money to the poor for more tax cuts for them….
I HATE THEM!
As I’ve put it a time or two, they’re a resource we’ll never run out of.
You need tinyurl.
Indeed.
Why do Republicans hate the poor?
Why do Republicans hate the sick?
Why do Republicans hate those born in other countries?
Why do Republicans hate anyone who is not them?
Don’t think that the predatory attitude is the exclusive property of the rich. There are folks in the ‘hood who prey on others in the same way. Must be part of the package of human nature.
You meant “at least one” asshole, right?
It really does seem to me that the right-wing selfish zero-sum rich types would rather live in a world where they have a million dollars and no one else has anything, then a world where they have ten million dollars and everyone else is living comfortably.
I know there is a better way to live than this: “Money’s Too Tight” by Simply Red in 1985 (link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrUB0g8Vjgg )
Food for thought: “Chris Hedges: Every Act of Rebellion Helps Tear Down Our Corrupt System“.
yep. Spot on. The San Diego group was the only other one I ever attended and they were the assholes. That means that in my personal experience, 50% of MENSA groups are assholes and 50% are party animals.
Yeah, I was thinking considerably less than a few hundred feet…
Of course. Sometimes they are much nearer and many more.
Hahaha. The Pittsburgh group didn’t quite click for me (not much of a joiner), but they were still lovely people.
Insecurity. The symptoms are aggression, fear and conservatism among other things.
Well, I for one TOTALLY hate rich people.
Absolutely. I don’t know why people are that way, but you really do see them everywhere. We have them in the suburbs, too.
M’eh. I used to do artwork for the Houston chapter and eventually my dad talked me into testing and then joining. I enjoyed those people mostly. The president brewed his own beer and we always got falling down drunk at his parties.
Me too, but not as much as I hate rude people.
To avoid paying higher taxes, the Captains Of Industry could forego titanic paychecks and give raises to and hire more employees. Most Americans, I think, would rather see more people working for better wages than read stories of bigshots snorting coke off of hookers bellies. The tax code is how this works. Set a confiscatory rate at, pick a level, one-five or ten million dollars. No one would be paid over that amount. Funds left over would go to wages, plant and equipment, research and development or building hospitals, libraries or any number of things to building world-class communities.
We have armies of people who gain employment with one goal, and that is to suck as much money as possible out of that company, even to fatal levels, for personal financial gain. One cannot stop that mindset, but it can be prevented from coming to fruition with the proper stops in the tax code.
There are many rich people who do great things for the community around them, but they seem to be the exception for the upper crust. We should encourage this behavior and then, perhaps the thin skinned greedy creeps among them won’t feel all persecuted by feeling “hated.”
Good post, Eli.
If the sampling of mega-rich people I lived among for a period of time are representative… There is no such thing as “enough” for any rich person I’ve known. Price was more important than quality. They want it ALL for themselves. Back in the 70′s my multi-millionaire mother-in-law would give my children 39 cent knock-off T-shirts from the Florida flea markets. Not kidding. They measure a person’s worth by their assets, and really believe if you aren’t rich there’s something wrong with *you*. They see poverty as a moral failing or laziness. Because they can control almost any situation with a big enough check, they don’t comprehend things being beyond a person’s control.
But those are just the people I knew personally. I don’t know if they’re all like that, but evidence seems to point to “yes, they are”.
We really haven’t evolved nearly as much as we think we have. We just have much better tools.
And rude rich people….stand the fuck by….. :D
For many of those folks, it really does seem like a combination of the two things I posited. Many just don’t have much imagination, and those who do seem to use it imagining how other people are out to get them.
Headed to Peru next month. Expect to meet a bunch of folk even down there who would like to perform a predatory act on my wallet.
Thanks. I’m fine with cranking the upper bracket rates up, but it’s hard to imagine how it could ever happen politically unless people really *do* start hating the rich.
But don’t two wrongs sometimes make a right?
Maybe what drives me the craziest in the world is the twenty-first century tools people have access to and the twelfth century belief structures with which they wield them.
Anyone notice a pattern here? Obama pushes for absurdly right of center legislation, “Progressives” and “Liberal” Democrats make a lot of noise for a few days saying they’re with “us”, but they need our donations so they can keep up the fight. THEN, they vote for the very Bill Obama wants. (Isn’t it just heartwrenching how difficult it was for Frankin to vote to have us borrow more money to continue giving tax breaks to the uber-wealthy?
Over and over again, folks, it’s the same old story. The Democratic Party is DEAD.
(As I recall, the economy miraculously failed to collapse when the top bracket was in the 70 and even 90% ballpark…)
Correction
Rise of Meritocracy is always hampered with Estate Taxes Absence.
BTW Democracy is not a spectator sport. We had an unjustified and unfunded WAR in Iraq and the bills are coming home now. For that GWB got re-elected. Everybody has to chip in by higher taxes since Majority of us allowed that to happen.
This post would have been laugh-out-loud funny if I had written it as purporting to reflect the views of the Democratic party.
Most of the time we’ve been primates, we spent defending ourselves and our little territories from any other primates or niche-usurpers. It’s only been what, 5,000 years or so that we’ve had anything like nation states? That’s a blink of an eye in evolutionary terms – maybe 200 generations. Hardly enough time to evolve away the drive that made us wipe out most other species and pave over the planet in the first place.
We were quite prosperous as a nation as I recall and the rich were never short of money to spend lavishly. Now most of them seem to be trying to outdo one another to win the Ebenezer Scrooge humanitarian award.
my little richee love muffin has NO interest in working in politics. her money comes from the fact that previous generations of her family manipulated politics and corporate politics successfully. which is like, you know, “work.” no, she’s mostly about shopping and taking a vacation to europe every month and then shopping some more, and then going to an exclusive party, and then shopping some more and then buying another Jag…
really, hers is a very boring life. she has kids, and these days she spends a lot of time shopping for toys for them, you know, so she seems more “like a good mom.” every single time we hang out and she brings some of her kids with her, she stops by my local big box store, and buys them new toys. i have a closet full of them (heh, there’s a joke there, of course she’s still in the closet and i’m her only out lover) that have accumulated because when she wants to fuck me, she buys them a bunch of toys to distract them while we get it on.
i went to private schools and i know a lot of rich people. mostly? i like working class people better. meh, i’ll just say it. rich people can be so intensely stupid and self serving, it’s very hard for someone like me not to be classicist. reverse classicist, as it were. there are nice rich people. just not so very many of them, imho. when it all goes down i’d rather be in a poor village in Belize than a gated community in Jackson Hole, yo. poor people tend to help each other, where the rich just shut themselves away and play with their toys while pretending like they can’t perceive what is going on in the rest of the world.
You’re preaching to the choir here, friend.
Went to prepare house for overnight & get back to find thread escaped me.
Re MENSA. Never had any contact with it. Always thought of it as being an exclusive: I-am-better-than-you-because-I-am-smarter kind of group. I’ve been involved in enough high power situations to be familiar with how they think about themselves, and, in general, don’t like it. Ivy league schools: UGH. Wall St.: UGH. MENSA?
I have much preferred taking peeps where they come and figuring out what we might or might not have in common.
For example, some of my most intelligent conversations were with Pakistani Manhattan taxi drivers after 9/11. They know much more that any U.S.ian about the world situation. So not only did I learn from them, they were one of the few groups I could test my new-found reading knowledge against, to find the holes in my thinking.
I responded to Frankin’s email; “Thanks for encouraging the Republicans. I’m done with Democrats.” And then I unsubscribed.
yep. Even the people that inherited their money seem to think that they did something really clever and cool to be born lucky.
Some here noticed that 2 years ago, esp Jane Hamsher, if you hadn’t noticed.
Wow. Some firepups go to MENSA meetings. I belong to that other group called DENSA.
I really did think the exact same thing until I actually met them in person.
That’s a prejudice though an understandable one. I felt the same way about them until I started working for a guy named David and then met his brother John. I would have never tried the San Diego group if I had had a bad experience with the Texas bunch. They aren’t all as you describe. It’s no different than any other prejudice though. Not all Christians want to see me executed for what I am either, though some very noisy ones do.
Nicely said. Lives of warmth v. lives of sterility.
Nope, not me. I haven’t actually been to a meeting in over 25 years.
Wow. I wish I could be concise when I grow up. :)
Al Franken? I don’t know which is more irritating – that he thought he was doing the right thing, or that he might be right that this really was the only deal the “leadership” were going to consider.
I did the very same thing this morning.
Eli !
Lee is back with Doc & The Phillies … bring on Spring Training !
I’m getting really sick of Democrats saying, “This is a really terrible, awful, disappointing deal that goes against my principles, but you should support it anyway.”
Petro !
Oy. It’s a double whammy for this New York fan. We’ll see how his back holds up, though.
Believe the sentiment was that he would be a disappointment. He didn’t disappoint in being a disappointment.
Petro! Kanban wa.
He’s getting $100 Million … he can afford a Back transplant … anyone seen Bonds ? *g*
Franken: I’m voting for it and crying on the inside, I know it’s wrong but I have to do it because I have no other choice…I’m going to cry….ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK! SUCKERSS!!!!
Wow. Good news. I wouldn’t be too surprised if they trade a pitcher soon for a right-handed hitter. Their hitting was the problem most of the season, particularly in the NLCS.
Hiya Peg !
Franken: Another sell-out. Spit.
Eli, my traitorous love, you know it’s not about people “loving the rich.” the problem is people loving celebrity. wealth buys that, in our times. people are conditioned to think of fame and media access as the best of all goals, and they will forgive anyone who achieves celebrity, no matter how much blood is upon their hands. most americans couldn’t give two shits about politics, don’t follow the details, couldn’t tell you the first thing about the HCR bill, etc. but that heiress who is also a “pop culture figure?” or someone like bush “the rich guy the trailer park would have a beer with?” obama, the not-quite-black guy who brings you the new brand of Hope and Change ™? etc.
our problem is celebrity worship. including liberals, who think that KO or Rachel Maddow are “making a difference” even tho she herself has admitted, “i’m not in this to make a difference. i just want to get paid.”
/dons flame suit/
The Boehner is an environmentalist. Says he’s been replacing divots for twenty years.
He’s been a disappointment to me. He’s supposed to be the ideal of a citizen-legislator, someone who decided to serve after having had a good life. It’s like he just can’t imagine anything better than the crap we’re being fed.
eCAHN !
Cold enough for ya ?!! *g*
I do have to give him a lot of respect for leaving $50-60 million on the table to play where he wanted. It just happens to really suck for my teams.
Huffington Post is a wonderful example of that. I don;t spend a lot of time there because it nauseates me.
How could anyone luv a celebrity. One of my many prejudices that I own up to (as opposed to my prejudices that I deny) is against celebrity. I find them universally despicable.
I’m sure that his Sierra Club prize is just lost in the mail.
Gotta a new-old wood stove and new down bathrobe, so am all set for the deep chill. You?
Jane on Larry Odonnell Last Word.
Of course, the very worst rich people are the ones most people have never heard of, like Pete Peterson and the Koch brothers.
But if there’s no support for taxing the rich because everyone loves Paris Hilton and the Kardashians, then we probably do deserve to die as a country.
I was just in the comments at his post on Huffington Post berating him with everyone else. Nobody’s buying the BS.
I’ve got some Single Malt and Grand Marnier … care for a wee dram ?
They wouldn’t allow my comment earlier.
I know a few one percenters, and I have to tell you they don’t sit around worrying about whether or not the rest of us hate them at all. Indeed, the ones I know are pasty faced evangelicals whose only interest in us is that we keep our hands off their money. I know some very nice one percetners too, but they also basically want us to keep our hands off their money. I don’t hate the wealthy, but I don’t like when people rely on them to make political points, like well, Warren Buffet supports taxing the rich. It’s true, he does, but I’d bet he’d only go so far. No one hates the rich in this country and supporting progressive taxation isn’t about hating the rich, it’s about actually liking and respecting the rest of us.
I think it has more to do with us just being more familiar with them than we are with the people around us. I don’t know what to do about that, but we probably know more about Paris Hilton than we do about people who live down the street. (Plus, let’s face it, you don’t need to feel like a voyeur when folks are living their lives in the tabloids.) So, those are the people we care about, because we “know” them.
We spent most of our existence as a species in bands of twenty to fifty people. We aren’t used to having millions of people we have to care about and know as individuals.
Oh yes, single malt puhlese!
All I gotta offer in exchange is some home-canned apple sauce. It’s really yummy. Hint of lemon zest. Perhaps you’d like a quart for future ref.
WooHoo! Jane brings up the 99ers. It won’t do any good but kudos and thank to her for it.
Hiya CD !
You don’t need a flame suit here, most of us agree with you. The meme oozing into Canada is, wealth is a blessing; therefore poverty is a curse, and there ain’t no point helping those who are cursed.
*sigh* … when will real Canadian Politicians overthrow the Harper regime …
I don’t doubt that the 1%ers haven’t a clue as to what the rest of life is really about. I try to listen to cnbc in the morning just to make sure I have some connection with what our superiors, the MOTUs really think. It’s surely not about real peeps.
“All those self-hating rich Democrats in Congress just want to punish themselves to assuage their terrible rich-person guilt”
Exactly. for a long time the wingnut diagnoses of “liberal white guilt” explained all of the civil rigthts legislation passed. Now that any race conversation (let alone legislation) seems to be permanently over in the Empire of the US of A, they have gotten touchy about thier richness instead of their lilly whiteness. The effect is the same, a bunch of rich white capitalist pigs stacking every deal in thier favor and pissing and moaning that we dont appreciate them. I used to have minimal appreciation for capitalists, when there still were any. But the wastrel younger sons and nephews of dead steel and railroad tycoons, and slick, social climbing, 1st generaltion-out-of-the-trailer-park, wal st thieves and con men have nothing about them at all worthy of admiring.
well, frankly, yes. we do. and we’re going to. and the Chindians will replace us as the rulers of the 21st c commercial empire. but you knew that.
fuck. i have the hiccups really bad and i’m going to go do some yoga and watch a movie about thieving lesbians to get rid of them. good night, pups. i curse my diaphragm and wish you all pleasing dreams. it’s nice to know the rich get these hiccups that are uncontrollable too, yo.
Reached my nausea threshold at HuffPo as well. Just dropped it into the virtual circular file where the Orange Satan also resides.
Thanks !
Sending a double “Highland Park” atcha …
They have people to pat them on the back and fetch them glasses of water until the hiccups go away, though. Night night.
Skoal!
Oh, crap. This article notes that the Phillies let Werth sign with the Nationals. They will definitely be looking for right-handed power.
Sorry, baseball thing. Carry on…
Yep, both are best in teeny tiny doses.
Night cd. :)
“. . .Or those who complain that they’re some kind of persecuted minority because they might lose a tax cut that’s more than most Americans earn in
an entire yearthree or four years.Yea, what I can’t stand is that these people think they “earned” it, and that they “deserve it because they are smarter than everyone else.”
Otherwise, the rich. Love ‘em.
The thing I hate more is the people who vote against their own economic self-interest because they think, “Rich. That’s what I’m gonna be.”
the folks in the trailer park are going to win the lottery and become instant bazillionaires!
“Keep your government hands off my imaginary money!”
Goodnight, chicago dyke. Sorry we can’t be there in person to shock you out of the hiccups.
“And this kind of narcissistic greed is even harder to stomach when it emanates from someone who didn’t accumulate their wealth by building or creating something of value, but rather by inheriting it, or by gaming the financial system, or through outright fraud and predation. Or from those who make their living by injecting lies and poison, or lazy Beltway hackery, into the American bloodstream. They contribute nothing yet feel entitled to everything, resentful of the thought that some unemployed, impoverished or elderly deadbeat might take a few crumbs from the gilded table they did so little to earn.”
BTW forgot to mention, your description of “bad” american capitalists is a despcription of all of them. There are no “honest harworking capitalists”. Capitlalism makes a few people rich by stealing the labor of many. There is no way that can be framed as a good thing.
I know some circus carneys who would like to help them reach their goal.
Eli! I look forward to your stuff for the levitry and fun-ness. this is heavy duty. I sense angryness, like, bubbling forth. You OK? Just ’cause you’re not feeling bubbly you don’t have to be bubbling, OK. If you’re bumbed, you came to the right place. But, hey. Don’t let a prick like Simon get ya down. I get Simon and Cihen mixed up. Oh my, but those Hebrews are so hard to keep straight, aren’t they?
But, no, Cujo…. save that thought. No need to apoligize. How could Lee have spurned the yankees? I don’t understand. I honestly had draems about him in pinstripes and a dirty NY cap.
Yeah, it’s crazy. But more and more, they live in a gated community world completely disconnected from the rest of us.
I find it a lot easier to admire some who worked their way up from dirt and built a company that makes stuff people use, than I do for someone who gets rich selling imaginary financial products to suckers.
Actually, taxing the rich has broad support.
No, I’m fine. Sometimes I just need to rant when someone says something incredibly, offensively stupid.
Copy that.
I’m late to the party. Apologies.
Whose post?
“No fruit cup” goes without saying.
I may be bold to ask: why not hate the rich? What’s to like?
What do Obama, Bush, Palin, Alan Keyes, and Clarence Thomas have in common
view the list below:
1st Obama endorses the Bush agenda of spying on and killing americans
2nd Obama attacks Unions (the F! the UAW moment screams republican)
3rd Obama double downs on Bush Wars, (now they are Obama wars)
4th Obama attacks Teacher Unions (teacher unions now hate OBAMA)
5th Obama does not attack the Banks? he bails them out? (sorta like what the GOP does)
6th Obama passes the Bob Dole Health Care Bill (Bob Dole is a republican)
7th Obama kills the Public Option
8Th Obama kills Drug Importation
9Th Obama APPOINTS an insurance executive to manage his health care Bill
10th Obama does not APPOINT Dawn Johnsen
11th Obama hand picks the cat food commission to destroy Social Security
12th Obama supports Blanche Lincoln, a candidate who hates Unions, and has no chance of winning
13 Guantanomo still open for business
14.Patriot Act renewed
15. renditions continue
16. Bernanke reappointed
17. Americans targeted for assassination
18 Obama is all for sending more USA jobs off shore
19 Obama is for tax cuts for the RICH!
20. Obama and the TSA porno Scandal
21 Obama freezes federal wages for 2 years
22. OBAMA TARP Funds for Legal Services for Foreclosure Victims Blocked By Treasury
23. Obama lowers estate tax for the rich
24. Obama tax bill of 2010 GUTS Social Security
Do you still think Obama is a progressive?
Any Dem that follows Obama, will be easy to beat in a primary.
All of these DEMS have to come to PROGRESSIVE COUNTRY TO WIN IN 2012! FACT!
(2012 like every race for president will be a BASE ELECTION, thus the PROBLEM for NEO-LIBERAL and PHONY DEMS)
It is up to progressive to make sure the road to progressive votes will not be pave with compromise, neo-liberal scum, etc. but full of ANGRY PROGRESSIVE WITH BROOMS READY TO KICK ALL THE DEMBUMS OUT.
We are getting ready! :)
Dems keep following OBAMA, He is going to win in 2012! :)
Laughing!
We are going to give every DEM in congress a new NECKLACE! that we call the OBAMA NECKLACE, if you vote with OBAMA we will make you WEAR OBAMA!
The Obamatross has replaced the Dubyatross.
To all the people about the rich wanting monuments built to them even though they didn’t do anything to earn their money…
That guy whos always on hannity, I can’t remember the crazy old mans name…but he said we should build giant stone marble and brass monuments to the rich.
I bet he’d want thousands of poor to be entombed alive when the rich man passes.
Did I mention I hate these people XD
I don’t hate them. I just want them shaken down, put under strict control, and monitored constantly, so they don’t screw things up again.
It’s astounding who we pick for leaders these days, isn’t it?
you got it!
The word “leader” is becoming increasingly meaningless, if not laughable.
Thanks!
Generally speaking, white teeth+good hair=leadership nowadays.
It does seem to. Few producers in Hollywood would cast an average looking man or woman as a hero in a film or TV series nowadays. I think we’re conditioned to expect that good looks means “trustworthy”, “courageous”, etc. I don’t know if there’s any correlation between those traits, but if there is, then there certainly are plenty of exceptions to the rule.
Keen observation! There is a pattern. Anomalies can be explained away, but not patterns.
GREATTT post (diary entry) – Beautifully concise and complete. I’m tweetttting it.
Thanks!
“Extreme Deficit Hysteria.” Now there’s a phrase I hope catches on.
Excellent, excellent diary, Eli.
I occasionally venture over to HuffPo, and see a great deal of the “you’re just jealous,” “we/they earned it; they should get to do what they want with it” tripe.
Just shows what 30 years of Ronald Reagan’s selfishness, “welfare queens,” “it’s your money” crap, plus the complete destruction of public education [and the disappearance of a real press corps], will do to the electorate.
and the commenters who love them.
See comment in proximity to yours.
I don’t hate rich people. I oppose Dooh Nibor policies that steal from the poor and give to the rich. I oppose them because a concentration of money power undermines a democratic polity. And denies the liberty and dignity of those folks that the rich consider less than their hubris-inflated selves.
I pity the infantilism of CEOs who can’t order their own Christmas presents or drive their own car, but must sit in a safety harness in the back seat.
I’m poor. So – some rich guy comes out and speaks in front of a mike about how all us poor people are waging class war against the trodden and abused rich people. What’s to hate?
“I pity the infantilism of CEOs who can’t order their own Christmas presents or drive their own car, but must sit in a safety harness in the back seat”
isnt that a riot!!!? i guess they are irreplaceable men (and women). as if. I’ll bet to every CEO there are a 1000 vermin CEO spawn waitng, preparing and praying to their evil god mammon, for the geezer in the saftey harness to bite the dust YESTERDAY.
ok. good. good rant.
From the Roger Simon article:
Barack Obama grew up poor??? From the age of 10 he lived with his grandparents (his grandmother was the Vice President of the Bank of Hawaii) and attended a private school. That is considered poor???
Thois is from Al Franken’s posting at HuffPo today:
So, like, Al Franken is my mentor and hero. But, what he said above is FUCKING STUPID!
Barack Obama is one of them, not one of us. This is class warfare, Al. You’ve got to choose a side, just like Obama did.
I don’t hate anybody. I just want to TAX THE RICH. It’s strictly business.
I would say that Senator Al Franken just showed everyone whose side he REALLY is on.
What’s Roger Simon gonna accuse us of next? Enjoying movies like Trading Places and Caddy Shack?
One thing I do dislike is media hacks sucking up to rich folks in crass attempts to gain some personal trickle down action.
Also to be frowned upon, media hacks who put thier own personal gain ahead of the best interests of the nation.
Afraid you’re going to have to get the choir to sing louder, ghost. I’ve been following this site for long enough to know MANY of its regular visitors suffer the same disorder as our elected Dems – inability to stand up when it’s absolutely called for. We missed a great opportunity to throw out a lot of Dem. (in-name-only) Incumbents in Nov. Unfortunately, the next election will be way to important to squander our votes on our silly little principals.
I noticed that Jane, in attempting to walk a very fine tightrope, refused to support a protest vote against Coakley, decided to not go to Las Vegas to campaign against Reed & even raised funds for Feingold.
THE problem Progressives have is, Dems KNOW we have no where else to go & they treat us with all the respect our political process accords those without any power or backbone.
We sure have been reduced to gestures, huh?
GREAT post!
I don’t buy that.
Franken weighed the intrests of his base against his principles, which he admitted, and chose the interests of his base. That’s what politicians do. And, that’s exactly what Obama has done, but please understand that Obama’s base is Wall Street, not the “Minnesota-nice” people who elected Al Franken.
Two things:
1) It doesn’t matter how one feels, gov’t policy isn’t based on that.
2) The recent discussion about whether one individual’s rights must be protected even to the point where it harms some other people or maybe we should protect the many against the one’s passivity is an interesting discussion.
So, setting tax policy ISN’T about how one feels towards this or that group, but protecting the public or an individual’s rights to be happy by making money IS about how one feels about the final outcome. Judges often have to find the right balance and each is different. Only when catastrophic outcomes occur do we all tend toward the same choices. ymmv
Taxing ‘the rich’ more isn’t about hatred. Taxing the middle class isn’t about liking. It’s about liking the possible outcome of getting money into the middle class’s hands to spend and hating what could happen if our debt gets out of control when we could have paid it down with taxes from the rich.
If you care about getting the economy going AND in paying down the debt the answer is clear. Republicans said no because they care about the rich as political contributors and they hate that Democrats may get a lot of contributions from the middle class. I suppose they don’t think Dems will be getting a lot of corporate money. Strange since corporations are more profitable now than (just about) ever.
Emotion (or emotional reaction) IS key in how we make choices or what we aim for, but upholding the Constitution means gov’t has to focus on satisfying that document and not just electoral constituents. Do Republicans ‘get’ that?
Remember the economy (GNP back then) was smaller, so big gov’t spending was a big part of GNP. Today the economy is larger and we can choose how much to spend on ‘defense’. We choose to use our military & State for many things, but we don’t absolutely have to. We could pull back if we wanted.
One way to measure how bad the debt is would be whether we’re beginning to really discuss pulling back on ‘defense’ spending. So far we’re not.
Ideally we would pay very very low tax rates because our economy would be much larger and only a small part of it would be necessary for gov’t. If we could create a more peaceful good stable world where we didn’t need to spend so much on ‘defense’, then we would have little need to tax away anyone’s financial dreams. Imagine that to an extreme where we could simply print all the money the gov’t would need each year. Fantasy, but something to aim for.
In the shorter-run we’re taxing to pay down the debt, but the Republicans won’t let us get that done just yet.
spit also.
These douche-bags are presiding over the death of the republic.
I don’t hate rich people, and I don’t believe in violence but will defend myself.
In 1980 there was a class war, and only the rich showed up. They’ve been trickling down on us ever since.
It’s not called “class warfare” until or unless we fight back, at which point they cry “rape.” So, let’s change that.
Let’s point out each and every act of class warfare against the middle and lower classes, and call it “class warfare.” Every uninsured person is a “victim of class warfare.” Let’s yell it loud and yell it strong. Let’s demand justice for our fellow victims of their bullshit.
Disagree about Coakley. My mother got raked over the coals by American Express when she mentioned to them being temporarily unemployed and they literally forced her into an insurance plan for her payments. Coakley sued the bastards, and my mother got her money back with interest. She didn’t even lodge a complaint. She had no idea there was a suit. When she got the check in the mail, she kept thinking it must be a fake. But nope it was real. First time in my life someone I know who deserved directly benefitted from the actions of someone in elected office.
Progressives dont hate rich people. Progressives hate greedy people.
I don’t hate rich people, I hate our whore government!
I don’t mean to malign whores in general since most have higher ethics and standards.
Yes, Coakley deserved the win for her “works”, no doubt about that. BUT, I can’t recall a less savvy Politician & I thought at the time we very much needed to send Obama & team a wake-up message – that if he continued running away from his campaign promises we’d vote to oust him & everyone who said a nice word about him out. Little did I know at the time, “Clarence Thomas” Obama couldn’t care less whether Coakley won, what we want, or Democratic principals!
Groucho Marx would’ve been a better President.
Attacking the rich is Marxism. It never turns out well.
I don’t hate rich people, I hate people who think they are of a superior race, unlike the poor who are sub-human. It is not my fault that the class of rich people and the class of Fuck Sticks seem to be congruent.
People need to come to the realization that we should do everything necessary to provide equality of opportunity, and the ability to get wealthy and provide a floor through which no one falls; A range compression of wealth. We should want people to get wealthy, and for aggregate social welfare to increase, and need to provide institutions and policies that encourage and support this, while doing our utmost to prevent anyone from slipping into destitution. Universal higher education/job training (everyone should be able to get the knowledge and skills they need), universal health care (people should not fear losing their job, changing jobs, or quitting their job in order to start a business to keep their health care), and strong social safety nets (for when people fail through no fault of their own – this includes a universal government jobs program like the WPA when things get really tough – like now. This would also help with business creation. If there’s less risk to starting a business [like losing your job putting you out on the street], more will do it), and more grants for small businesses (along with a reform of onerous regulations which are appropriate for larger businesses, but have no place weighing down a small one – our one size fits all SOX404 is/was a great example.) Large, connected corporations get free passes and corporate welfare. Many individuals and small businesses are forced to deal with every hurdle and jump through every hoop to stay afloat.
As an aside, the entire framing of social safety nets as welfare is wrong in today’s world. It should in fact be thought of as a net, something that catches you when you fall so you can build yourself back up, which we should want everyone to do.
What we have now has distorted our ability to any of this. Both parties bay about equality of opportunity. I agree: that is what we need. Right now, we have nothing even close to it.
Finally, no one, I mean no one should hate the wealthy. They should instead abhor a broken system that prevents more people from getting wealthy.
I do. Why wouldn’t I?