I caught the very beginning of Lawrence O’Donnell after Rachel last evening. Is he as much of a condescending asshole as I think he is? Or did I just catch him on a bad day?

You caught him on a good day.

Obama is the Rorschit President. That’s a lot like Rorschach, only liberal and conservatives see the same thing.

I think this clip is very powerful. (Sorry if it’s already been posted in a previous thread.)

Why are Shortride and DiFi so terrified about WikiLeaks? Didn’t Assange claim he “believes” W’s horseshit about 9/11?

But not everyone believes W’s horseshit.

“Dr. Alan Sabrosky, former director of studies at the US Army War College says that the military brass now know that Israel and those traitors within our nation committed the 911 attack. ”

Search Alan Sabrosky yourself. Why don’t the dual citizen duo go after Dr. Sabrosky?

Why did Cheney’s mama never give the Little Dickster any love?

Why don’t the Iraqis embrace our freedom?

So many questions. Not enough answers.

Oh. Oh my…

Good morning all.

Did they pass the tax cuts for the rich but rescind them for those making less than $250,000 yet?

Not yet. The Trojan condom is still working on a maneuver to pull that off.

I detest him :) So…it’s not you, it’s him.

NO, not yet but they did kill the $250 for seniors…$5 a week that is desperately needed by seniors (me) for frivolous items like food.

This may seem obvious to those with experience in economics and the interaction of proposed taxes/tax cuts and the markets, but it sure looks like this tax cut plan will bring two things to fruition:
1) Rapid increase in bond yields (rise in cost to Treasury for borrowed money).
2) Rapid decrease in the value of stocks in the stock markets which are over valued.
and possibly #3) empowering deficit hawks to gut government programs especially Social security saying, “Look. We have these deficits to reduce now and they are bigger than ever!”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/09/business/economy/09place.html?src=un&feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjson8.nytimes.com%2Fpages%2Fbusiness%2Fglobal%2Findex.jsonp

Anyone learn anything surprising from wikileaks yet? Lots of specifics, but nothing I wouldn’t have guessed yet, for me.

More shock doctrine with the TARP precedent that set the stage.

Geez.

Mornin’, BT, pups

Hackers Give Web Companies a Test of Free Speech

Get some.

The reason for the nervousness (terror?) of the PTB is not the actual content of the Wiki memos. The concern is that the memos will release an uncontrollable chain reaction of hidden secrets from myriad other sources.

They look like they are stripping the assets from our country on purpose. I think it is treason.

As people cannot see ghosts, ghosts cannot see the images on the TeeVee nor hear the sounds.

Do the images and sounds that emit from the TeeVee box have any semblance to Reality?

One can only hope, though hope IS a 4-letter word.

I wasn’t denigrating what has been leaked. Most people are not as jaded as I am about how corrupt govts are and the evidence of how they manipulate illegally behind the scenes is very valuable. I was just wondering if I missed something that was REALLY eye-opening for someone who is already moderately alert.

And that explains the latest crack down on pot?

Federal Officials Threaten Crackdown on Medical Pot Growers
http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/384192/disqus?page=entire

Or to cover the increased cost of Medicare Part B… [fuckers]

IMO, he is probably more of a condescending asshole that you think.
And he is inconsistent. Back before Morning Joe became too sickening for me to watch, LO’D was a common guest on the show. Sometimes he would have a good point, even if I didn’t always agree with it. But many times he would parrot some long-debunked talking points. His own show is pretty awful. I can’t stomach it.

How’re your bee girls? All huddled together to keep warm in this cold snap?

But he has such a great rolodex, gets such great guests! /s

I think the gummint tolerates the “moderately alert” it is the “almost dysfunctional” masses that bother them. If middle america sees and believes that their beloved corporate/christian government is lying through their teeth then there is a real problem. Wkileaks has now been heard about by the masses and that is causing panic.

The Party of HATE (aka Democratic Party) never stops hating or promoting hatred. From the Rev. Wrights (want to see real hatred and racism, watch one of his videos…pay close attention to audience reactions) all the way up to the party leaders. Personally, I hope the tax cuts fail to pass, i.e. Democrats allowing themselves to be blinded by their hatred of the “Evil Rich” and voting against the Bush Tax Cuts.

They’re working on it! Sheesh! Purists! You just have to it all now now now! :)

They look like they are stripping the assets from our country on purpose. I think it is treason.

same as they have done to all those other 3rd world countries, but this time on a much larger scale, sigh, nice while it lasted

The trolls are out early this mornin’.

There are shocking revelations being made. Here is one of the latest.

Certainly nothing that is being exposed by the US media. This is a perfect opportunity for folks to broaden their horizons and explore the on-line media outlets of other nations. THEY are indeed focusing on the specifics of the leaks, and are not timid about expressing outrage.

The Guardian is a good starting point. There are excellent English-language sites in many other countries as well. Obviously, knowledge of Spanish helps to cover all of Latin America and Spain.

How’re your bee girls?

Bloody cold this morning I would imagine. I should have thought of putting an indoor/outdoor thermometer inside the hives to see how warm they are. A project for next year. I put a spoon of honey in my yogurt and fruit in the morning and thank the girls every day.

People that voted for Obama thought they’d be getting the “Rock” and instead they got Steve Urkel.

They will look for any excuse to let loose the dogs of oppresion.

The VP of Boloivia is posting al cables that pertain to that country on his website (translation available).

OT, Clarence Jones, Scholar in Residence, Martin Luther King, Jr. Research and Education Institute, Stanford University live call-in on WPR, click listen, FB or email online. This show will be available there later, via download.

Topic: primary Obama.

The plutocrats are using a tactic perfected by the “Mob.” It’s called “busting out” a business. Once they have control of a business they strip it of everything of value until there is only an empty shell which they then torch for the insurance. Think of the U.S. as being “busted out” by the plutocrats.

Well now you went and crapped on our Cheerios! Our happy, carefree, not-a-problem-in-the-world cheerful Cheerios.

He we were, a bunch of frisky happy firepups, who never ever say anything bad at all about Democrats, and you had to go and make us sad.

Whatever shall we do. We’re so overwhelmed.

Thanks. It is truly heartening to see the reactions of people around the world reacting the way humans are supposed to react.

There are many specifics, too many to list all. But Saudi Arabia is Al Qaeda. The criminal US Government and their privatized parters in crime have created a National Security State that protects the perpetrators of the 9-11 attacks.

Plus everything the government tell us is a deliberate lie, to protect our Corporate Overlords.

maybe the diaper shitting sell out pieces of shit taking the paychecks of “leaders” in the democratic party should pass 0bummer’s millionaire welfare!

people STUPID enough, or corrupt enough, or kool aid drinking enough to think that we’re still not in a recession / depression – whew.

I know the ivy’d economist toadies and the well paid cheerleaders claim differently, but, they’re the people who clapped for the dot.bomb and the housing bubbles, and profited greatly during each – we’re listing to those fucking lying scum?

rmm.

Another “Last Word” fiasco, with Larry going apeshit about the bottom tax bracket, then Ezra earnestly explaining how mega-corporations who get more than a decade of tax credit in one year will “pay it back” in the out years. Yeah, right, let’s see how subsequent legislative moves “fix” that one.

Of course nobody explained how de-funding Social Security was a great idea, albeit stimulative. It will no doubt be very, very stimulative to the Catfood Cranks.

Or at least they thought they would be getting a fire fighter…somebody to pull the country back from the brink. Instead, Obama pushed us off the cliff.

See, that doesn’t surprise me anymore. Ditto ghost @ 30. Disgusting, but not surprising. WRT Nigeria, what IS surprising is its indictment of Cheney.

Nice analogy. Hadn’t thought of it, but you are right on.

I’m looking up honey recipes. Not used much in current cookbooks. Found a couple in an old Craig Claiburn one I have. Used in some kind of loaf cake, which I may make in the next couple of days.

21 degrees was overnight low here. Would imagine it was 5-10 degrees colder by you.

From the Rev. Wrights (want to see real hatred and racism, watch one of his videos…pay close attention to audience reactions)

Your slander of Rev. Wright is based on racist right wing forged videos. Rev. Wright has served his country and he deserves to be heard as much as the Fundy preachers Obama adopted. Actually Rev. Wright deserves to be heard more, to correct the lies from the Vast Right Wing Corporate Propaganda Machine.

OT, but you guys gotta see this at TPM: Bryan Fischer of “American Family Association” blames “the gays” for wikileaks!

This guy’s got issues.

Bolivia is even considering creating a mirror site for Wikileaks. I would say they are angry at the USA for spying on them.

This just in. Xipwire has decided to function as a site to transfer funds to Wikileaks:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/12/09/business/AP-US-PA-WikiLeaks-Taking-Donations.html?hp

Hey, why not? Remember Clayton Hartwig and the USS Iowa? I wouldn’t be surprised if it was actually gay dinosaurs and not an asteroid that wiped them out.

Good morning firepups, looooong time lurker here, Used to post in the old days as scudrunner… Woke up just a few minutes ago still stewing about this tax cut for the rich crap. I had what felt like an epiphany: We keep looking at the economics of this issue and shaking our heads because we all know that tax cuts for the wealthy will NOT stimulate the economy. But what IF, the MOTU have conveyed to Obama that in return for (essentially) making their tax cuts permanent, they’ll take steps to stimulate the economy? That this depression is “manufactured” we’ve all accepted but why would they continue to rape this country when ultimately it will be their undoing? Please believe me that if I were Obama, I’d tell them to go stuff it, but I have come to believe that it’s ALL a big charade. The rules of economics, the 2 party system, Cheerios is good for you, etc, etc. What happens, only happens when the PTB want it to happen and the rest of us are all out here pissing in the wind trying “influence” the system. Please allow me some latitude here as I’m still drinking my coffee, the cobwebs are not yet cleared… just wanted to write it down before it faded…

Most excellent.

THANK YOU, Tom. I have been looking for a way to contribute.

JHFC on a crutch.

Now, New York City is applying the same methodology to assess one of its programs to prevent homelessness. Half of the test subjects — people who are behind on rent and in danger of being evicted — are being denied assistance from the program for two years, with researchers tracking them to see if they end up homeless.

Here is the site Wkileaks safe donation siteI posted this morning @6:30

Doesn’t Bryan Fischer have an appointment in an airport men’s room or something? How does he find the extra time to dream this shit up. Must be a really good scheduler.

Payback’s a bitch.

If everyone hasn’t done so already, don’t forget to cancel your PayPal and Amazon accounts. There are other ways to make payments and buy books.

Canceling Visa and MasterCard is a bit harder, but I’ve been reading that folks who are able are doing that as well.

Thank you. Wikileaks is indeed listed as one of the pledge drives.

Off to swim in the great capitalist cesspool.

US KIA Afghanistan: 1,423

US KIA Irak: 4,430

Iraki, Afghan and Pakistani casualties: estimates vary to over 1.5M

US MBS 2010: 42,408 and counting

New Kicks

Be good to yourselves, and all other living things

Namaste

Yeah. I am going to have to get creative now that I don’t have a credit card. But I have always figured these things out before. Usually I just mail a check, and sometimes I find a third party who helps me to get the job done.

Heh, I’ve never had a credit card. Coin of the realm has always worked for me.

Wait, wait, wait …

Hold on there Margaret, the real story is that about 6000 yrs. ago alla dinos decided to lay down and die so they could become gasoline so America could rule the world and do Gawd’s work.

This revisionist stuff youse peddalin’ is simply gonna confusulate the good pipples of this exceptional nation and shift attenshun away from the bigga problem we gots today.

The bigga problem is how we can give everthing to a few very important individuals without getting all uppity ’bout it … where is our spirit of generosity which we claim is biggest in world?

Next thing, everbody blame poor rich pipple for fact nobody else haf money.

Remember da dinos, folks … they has shown us da way.

Wouldn’t you really like to give your all … so ‘Merica can be da bigga number one, foreveh?

Where is yur patriotism?

Where is yur pride?

‘Merica can’t get no bigger unless it comes outta yur hide.

Jus’ sit back and enjoy the ride.

;~DW

You’re a step ahead of everyone then, if you don’t carry an enslavement card.

Wikileaks is history in the making, folks. Suggest everyone who can becomes a part of it.

Thanks. That is unethical research. Those kinds of research models were determined to be illegal on top of being immoral quite a while ago.

Consider this: (The local weather report) Today: Partly sunny, with a high near 17. Wind chill values as low as zero. West wind between 10 and 14 mph.

I would not want to be out there in my sleeping bag trying to survive this weather. I am too old and I don’t generate enough heat. I would freeze to death.

President Obama warned his fellow Democrats on Wednesday that they risk plunging the country into a double-dip recession if they reject his tax-cut deal with Republicans.

Hate to break this to the Hooverites in the WH, but this deal will be more likely to cause a double-dip recession than hold one off.

I told the Mastercard people to cancel my card on Monday when they terminated transfers to Wikileaks.

Nice to see you come out of the chute in such fine form this morning. You’re killin me over here.

Good morning pups and welcome out TrulyLeft.

you missed number 4;

rapid deconstruction of the assets in social security

Morning Pups! I’m listening to the progressive caucus member of congress on CSpan. He is trying, trying, trying. Good fellow I think, but does not have much support from his fellow Dems.

We already know that, but ya know. Rep. Keith Ellison, D-Minn

Hi SD. Have a good day. I am going to bake some bread and see if I cannot warm this place up a degree or three.

But what IF, the MOTU have conveyed to Obama that in return for (essentially) making their tax cuts permanent, they’ll take steps to stimulate the economy?

i used to harbor such thoughts. That in some 11 dimensiony way he was there for us. Now i just think it’s even worse than it appears

Amazon.com is the next target…

DW has been in FINE form for three days now!

Who are you going to believe? Those who are intent on cleaning out the Trust Fund, or your lying eyes!

Thanks, Oldnslow (a term I could wear fittingly), I’m just to the point that I believe that if this tax cut thing passes, it will be the turning point that says we have completely lost control of our destiny and it grieves me so. Kinda, the last straw sort of thing for me… My post above was about, I guess, my subconscious mind trying to find some sort of solace… I am just beside myself.

I’ve been lurkin.

Is there any way we can see what else they are throwing into this tax bill? It seems to have become a bowl of potpourri.

Guess I’m gonna have to start payin’ full price for books. Most of the stuff I read isn’t in the stores but I’ve got a nice indy bookseller I can order through.

Thanks. That is unethical research. Those kinds of research models were determined to be illegal on top of being immoral quite a while ago.

I’m hip. Something tells me that they don’t even have an IRB in place. Some of them could go to prison if they don’t as well they should. Though not medical in nature, it is definitely human subject research.

Attempting to find solace has been my MO for a while now. Just feelin kicked in the nuts anymore.

It looks to me like this tax cut extension is more likely to cause rather than prevent an economic downturn. I do despair.

DON’T cancel your Visa and Mastercard credit cards! It will affect your credit score (when you have less available credit in your name, your score goes down). Keep the cards open, just don’t use them.

Thanks. That is unethical research. Those kinds of research models were determined to be illegal on top of being immoral quite a while ago.

Yeah, I hope I get enough on my income tax refund to stay in this apartment until March. Otherwise I’ll be out there in my sleeping bag. Along with my cat.

Frank Rich is part of what wrong with this nation media.

Frank still thinks he controls the information of the USA, sorta like the villian in the James Bond movie “tommorrow never dies”

Frank says the Dems will pass the Bill and everything will be fine 6 months from now. WOW! what a statement

Frank thinks “6 months from now Dems will love OBAMA”

Frank, news flash, Dem senators don’t even know what is in the OBAMA tax bill scam, as of yesterday. Harkin came on national TV and said, the dems in the senate haven’t even seen the bill.

You can’t ignore the obvious any longer, the OBAMA WH has crashed and burned! it is over.

Obama has loss the Base of his party, and now he has loss congressional Dems.

Frank was pathetic last night.

Frank probably thinks his phony govt news paper the “NYT” speaks for liberals. NOT!!!

Welcome, TrulyLeft.

You’ll find this an interesting site.

It has the advantage of allowing each of us to find that there many good and thoughful, as well as kind, decent, and caring human beings to stand “beside” us, all of whom recognize and care about what is going on.

Making the journey less loney and adding a good deal of reasonable hope and encouragement.

Welcome aboard, TL.

DW

It’s been two days now since my letter to Speaker Pelosi with no response.
I guess she has nothing to say about the 99ers and will not step out in the camera view to tell America how that is a lie.

If ya don’t maintain a balance equal to 16-21% of your limit your credit score is affected as well. I use a credit union and couldn’t care less about my credit score. Gotten through 67 years not carin’ about it, why start now?

LOL! can’t wait to see THAT

I keep wanting to see people take to the streets in mass protest but the lame stream media probably wouldn’t cover it. Short of inflicting enormous amounts of damage to property, we’d be ignored. Then they would frame it as eco-terrorism or some such asinine term and we’d be even more marginalized. What used to work no longer applies. I’m getting too old to consider violence but it appears to be quickly coming down to that being the only option left to effect change. And I’m afraid that would be quickly quashed by our military as a terrorist threat. My focus has been for some time finding a way to weather the storm. I’m still looking…

I have long been of the opinion that the whole “credit score” thing is a means of control. Punishment for a low score is brutal. It targets the poor. I’m with you in that I don’t play along with the credit score cops.

BINGO!

If you don’t hold debt you are a bad score. (ME)
If you hold what they consider too much you are a bad score.

If you have to buy your food on credit–go to town, they love you!

Wow. If you will please hold on to your friendships you have made here at FDL, I can’t imagine that this community would ever let that happen to you.

I have long been of the opinion that the whole “credit score” thing is a means of control.

Especially now that your credit gets checked when you apply for a job.

Welcome to the machine.
The construct is ubiquitous.
Its pieces demand attention and will not be denied.

Agreed. No credit card, no need to worry about a credit score. I had a fairly crappy score when I bought my car and I paid it off so it must be better now. Outside of that, I couldn’t care less. Besides, wtf would I want to pay 30 percent interest on purchases for? Because cash is “inconvenient”? Please. The credit score scam is a game to reward rich people for their cleverness at inheriting money or fleecing other people of money.

Thanks, DW. I’ve been a lurker/occasional commenter since the old blogspot days and am quite familiar with this, my fav site. I usually find that most here echo my opinion and state it more succinctly than I could so I mostly just read. I’m feeling particularly discouraged just now as I feel that this tax cut battle is such a blatant attempt at thwarting the truth that if they get away with it, it will represent their ultimate power over us and the end of America as we envisioned it. Truly disillusioned…

You will discover, TL, that most of us of a certain age (we’ve been in this struggle for quite some time, many of us) reject any notion of a violent solution, not merely because it would, as you say, be mercilessly crushed, but also becaause that legitimizes violence and begins with violence, setting a most obnoxious precedent for “solution”.

THIS revolution must be different and those who truly understand realize that only by becoming CONSCIENCE, may our efforts allow humanity to survive … and thrive.

DW

He was just … obnoxious last night. He was the night before as well. I may not watch that guy anymore. He may be a bright guy but to overtalk people and use that condescending voice is too much. Maybe if he were doing that to Rush, I’d feel differently. But not to the guests he has there.

And that’s a shame too. I bought lots of stuff from amazon.

Agreed! I think we must utilize ways to starve their beasts. The only thing that matters to them is money. That is the heart of the monster.

Cogent, succinct, to the point. I think you don’t give yourself enough credit. :)

He may be a bright guy but to overtalk people and use that condescending voice is too much.

Yeah. That whole “I worked in Congress and you didn’t so stfu” thing was too much for me long ago. The only time I’ve watched his crappy show was when he had Jane on and he was in full I worked in Congress mode then. REALLY grating.

He may be a bright guy but to overtalk people and use that condescending voice is too much.

Not to mention the screeching at and bullying anyone who would dare support a “no” vote on Obama’s ankle grab.

It sure has. It’s obviously going to pass, just like all the crap sandwich that was HCR. But that won’t stop the carnivores from taking several more bites of pork first.

And sush up, you reporters! Be nice quiet little churchmice. Or better yet, how about some cheerleading?

Rah rah sis-boom bah,
Corporate sell-out O-bah-mah!

You do realize that, since Obama’s catfood commission failed to gut Social Security, these Bush tax cuts ( in a time of war) which worked so well the last 10 years for our economy will finally pull the plug on SS?

I’m on SSI which come straight out of revenues, so, it’s abundantly clear to me that the “payroll tax” holiday will provide ample ammunition to tell me they can’t afford to keep me alive any longer.
Combine that with all the cuts to Medicaid and we have the classic “death by a thousand cuts”.
My new Republican governor who said she wouldn’t cut Medicaid is now juggling figure so she MUST cut Medicaid.
I can just see the letter I’ll get next year.
Oh well, at least I’m not in these people’s shape…yet:
Homeowners Wrongfully Foreclosed Upon Go Through Legal Wringer

This community must provide something beside talk to help those sisters and brothers in need of assistance.

We must provide means by which those exposed in “the field” or the “war zone” can survive.

Think how the Wobblies have done it.

Solidarity demands genuine “support” and not merely verbal approval.

Maybe, we’re not there yet, but I think we should be.

DW

Yeah, I keep hearing all kinds of things congress is attaching to this bill. It is beyond human decency!

I agree that conscience is key but I’m afraid that evolution has rewarded all too well those who are sociopathic in temperament. After 34 years in the auto industry on both sides, I have reached the conclusion that you just don’t “make it” in this world we’ve created unless you are ruthless. This ruthlessness elevates one to positions of power. Until an evolutionary mechanism comes along to “punish” those folks, we’ll be ruled by them. I’m just afraid that the mechanism might be scattershot in nature…

“O” is for offers we make to our masters
“B” is for Bernanke
“A” is for assholes who call us disasters
“M” is for misery
“A” is for arrogance that we all feel,
Towards most of the citizenry…..

and, well, I type slow… thanks Margaret

and, well, I type slow

Maybe but with practice speed will come. :)

I can’t stand these Obama apoligist like Lawerance Odonnel, Chris Mathews,Jonnath Alter and all the other DLC apoligists.

And here I thought that post was joke!

Has anyone heard the Joke about the president that passed the Bush tax cuts and made them permanent?

It goes like this, it once was this trojan horse president named OBAMA that hated the bush tax cuts before he pass them.

he told his people in 2 years I will kill the bush tax cuts

the people said Trojan horse president OBAMA how are you going to kill something you just made permanent?

the trojan horse president OBAMA said?

i thought all of you were as dumb as BUSH! :)

rachel maddow says they laugh at you
and then
you become irrelevant

Since I’m no longer able to post at Talking Points Memo let me say:

these tax cuts are going to further erode liberalism and services in our govt. All of the tax cuts, like the tax holiday (which will be extended) and the estate tax capitulation are the means to choking social security and other services.

All compromise is based on give and take, but there can be no give and take on fundamentals. Any compromise on mere fundamentals is a surrender. For it is all give and no take.
-Gandhi

Thanks for the erudition! I understand EVERYTHING now…….

Hey, jedi! Good mornin’

NYT has truly drunk the kool-aid. NYT played up the bullshit terroristic threat from Summers that killing the payoffs to the ultra-rich will cause a double-dip recession (Jackie Calmes article), and NYT even ran an editorial ordering Dems to vote for the “odious” (their word) taxcut bonuses deal. But NYT’s own Economix blog posted Mark Zandi’s own analysis proving that the national economy will be the same in 2013 whether Congress passes the corrupt deal or not. So the fix is definitely in over there.

Don’t know what happened with Frank Rich, his column Sunday was extremely harsh on the preznit.

LoDo is a rightwing corporate tool who oozes with condescension for anyone, but esp anyone leftwing. I never liked him, but he completely disgusted me for all time when he brow-beat Ashley Carson, the woman Alan Simpson insulted with the titty remark, in late August:

http://www.americablog.com/2010/08/lawrence-odonnell-fans-fear-over-social.html

O’Donnell was vile, sexist, mysogynistic and so condescending to Carson that I almost threw my shoe at the tv. O’Donnell wasted not an instant to defend the Catfood Commission and Alan Simpson.

Yet this tool likes to masquerade that he’s a “socialist.” ‘Nuff said. I can barely stand to the watch the clips when Jane goes on his show. My loathing for O’Donnell is only outpaced by my loathing for Obama. Both are NeoCons *posing* as liberals, which is dangerous, imo.

Since I’m no longer able to post at Talking Points Memo let me say:

What happened there? Did you dare utter criticism of the Dear Leader?

I need a new list of fax numbers for the current Congress (House, primarily). Anybody got any ideas?

She was too busy passing the crap budget for next year that froze federal employees pay.

…I’m afraid that evolution has rewarded all too well those who are sociopathic in temperament… I have reached the conclusion that you just don’t “make it” in this world we’ve created unless you are ruthless. This ruthlessness elevates one to positions of power. Until an evolutionary mechanism comes along to “punish” those folks, we’ll be ruled by them…

Quite agree. Something I’ve long pondered. The sociopathic nature of humans is clearly evident throughout all aspects of life, whether in any job (believe me, even the most *humble* of jobs brings out ruthlessness in the workers), or in personal relationships, or in religious or spiritual communties, you name it.

Humans seem “wired” to be ruthless and often back-stabbing to a degree that is sometimes quite breathtaking. Of course, our political “theatre” presently has definitely pumped up the volume, and we see in our coporate-owned rightwing media nothing but the glorification of bullying, being as mean-spirited, rude, nasty, ruthless as possible – and not just politically but across the spectrum.

And yes, the ruthless often seem to the very ones who are most amply rewarded. The saying that “the truth will out,” often is NOT the case. When one reaches a certain age, it just seems that the more craven and venal amongst us DO “win,” and do end being the “rulers,” whilst those who strive to live authentically and with integrity end being the “ruled.”

How we can get away from this is a darn good question because our gutless and witless populace has really been polluted by this junk from their various idiot boxes, as well as (all too often) from the pulpets on Sunday. Those who “do the right thing” are often mercilessly mocked for being pussies or worse, and those who lie with impunity seem to sleep very very well at night and end up with the pot of gold.

What political party did O’s maternal grandparents belong too?

I suspect, TL, when enough people realize that it IS a sociopathic elite that control our lives and extoll money, that there will be the possibly of substantial change.

More understand today than understood yesterday.

Consider how much further along the “dialogue” is today than it was, say, twenty years ago”?

Some of us have been pushing the conversation for a long time, nigh on forty-five and more years …

We ARE making progress toward understanding.

And THAT is only the beginning.

It’s a long-haul.

DW

I’ve criticized dear leader there plenty of times. People blown shit at me for it but I’ve never been banned.

I would like to think you’re right, and that the populace will “wake up” to the fact that the Oligarchs are sociopaths totally ripping us off. But I won’t hold my breath. And even if, somehow, the majority does find grasp what’s *really* going on, then what??? I try to remain optimistic….

Here’s what the House did last night while we were strateegerizing about how to stop taxcut bonuses for the ultra-rich. Really. Shitty. Budget. Bill.

Well said…

Thanks for the link to the WikiLeaks exposure about Royal Dutch Shell’s (which I believe is part British and part Dutch owned??) deep grip on the governing of Nigeria. You posted this link in response to eCHAN’s question as to whether WikiLeaks was revealing anything “really new and/or astonding,” esp for those of us long inured to knowledge about the venal criminality of governments everywhere, but esp the USA.

I want to point out that while that info is of interest, it was well known that Shell Oil was directly responsible for the “assassination” of Ken Saro-Wiwa, a Nigeraian environmental activist fighting Shell’s rape of the Niger delta in the 1990s. Well to be accurate, Saro-Wiwa was convicted in a Nigerian kangaroo court and executed by hanging at the behest of Shell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Saro-Wiwa

Just saying that the exposure of Shell’s long-term “involvement” in running Nigeria is not particularly surprising to those of us who have been watching and listening for many years. Still, it’s good to get the info out there for more to learn about. Thanks for posting that.

I never purchase Shell gas, btw, not that any other BigOil company doesn’t also have a TON of blood on their hands. Just have a particular distaste for Shell.

You’re brave, there are some heavy Kool-Aid and lollipop users over there.

IMO, it takes a LOT of courage, as well as a lot of inner strength & fortitude, to live a life of integrity, to be really honest, to have a conscience. Nearly everything in life encourages one to be otherwise, to be ruthless, to “get yours,” to lie, cheat or steal. It’s no wonder that so many follow those paths of debauchery, greed, venality and dishonesty. Just turn on your tv and almost ANY show is glorifying that kind of behavior, and far too often – whether in virtual or “real” life – the villians are amply rewarded with no consequence. And so on…

Takes guts to be honest. Takes guts to do what’s right. That’s why so many fail to do so, methinks.

“Then”, we’ll see …

Nothing can FUNDAMENTALLY change until the majority of people, of human beings on this planet, understand WHY there MUST be change.

Since America embraced comfort as the national signifier, rather than conscience … DIS-comfort must become very widespread AND very deep before awareness is fully engaged, here.

Before we get “there”, one had better be prepared for some truly awful stuff … as in, we ain’t seen nuthin’ yet.

Ultimately, the ONLY thing the intelligent ape has “going” for itself IS its intelligence.

Remember that great tome “The Human Race” by Willy Maykit and Betty Whoant?

We all write the pages every single day.

And guess what, onitgoes?

It’s all up to you … and a few of your friends.

That’s the only “way” we’re gonna get “by” … “with a little help from our friends” …

DW

I guess I’m not that optimistic… for every tool we get to further the outing of truth, they end up using said tool to disseminate lies. Kinda, 2 steps forward, 3 back. In other words, while we celebrate our ability to forge forward, they’re celebrating even more ability to thwart us. I feel overwhelmed by their might. I’m only hopeful right now in that history repeats itself and historically all societies have failed under this weight. Unfortunately, failure will be painful for ALL of us. My fear is that this is the equilibrium that the human species has achieved — cycles of progress followed by failure…

I disagree, to some extent. For me it’s all about the patriarchal religions playing on our innate longing for alpha status and breeding rights. and the need to feel superior to someone, anyone.

It COULD be mitigated if wimmin were given the equal respect we deserve and the demonization of the female has been a relatively recent development in human history.
but, probably too late now.

It’s an addiction and should be treated as such.

We’re all really on the same page, TL.

This IS our world, how may we shape it to reflect what is best for all of humanity and best for all of life?

You have articulated beautifully and well, our plight, continue to do so, for others will hear.

Consciousness evolves one mind at a time.

Ultimately, unless we destroy ourselves through warfare or by destroying the capacity of Earth to support human life … time AND the numbers are on “our” side.

As I say, it has taken me some fifty years to reach such small understanding as I may have … but I premise it upon observing, over that time, that people are really more alike than different … whatever thay may have been told or taught to believe.

It may not be much … but, for now, it is all.we.have.got.

I am no optimist, merely a curmudgeon.

DW

I once subscribed to a publication called Bottom Line, a compilation of excerpts from other pubs… a sort of Readers Digest version of new stories/articles, etc. One article was discussing how to sell a used car and was advising on how to sell a lemon without letting on that it was a lemon. I thought, WTF? This was during the Reagan era and integrity was daily being thrown out the window and I thought then that this was a bad sign. I cancelled my sub to Bottom Line in protest. But the turn for the worse, I think gathered momentum under Reagan and it galls me no end when I hear folks like Charlie Rose and our fearless leader heaping praise old him. It’s an upside down world and I’m relishing the thought that will not always be so. I just hope I live long enough to witness it. Right now, I am not so hopefull…

Hell, Kassandra, women “invented” agriculture … and thereby, civilization.

I would welcome the feminine priciple should it dare to step aside from the perceived need to behave like the masculine … in politics, in business, and in power …

Up with real women, who dare to care and have the courage to share how THEY think and FEEL about things, about life, about justice, about war and about peace.

Up with women.

Up with reason.

Up with tolerance.

Up with understanding.

DW

All the Republicans want is to go home, celebrate their victory, party, and spend time with their families or whatever it is they do when they get time off for Christmas.

If Obama wanted a better deal, he would have kept negotiations going through Christmas.

Obama is a liar.

I remember when Boesky said “Greed is good”, and Harvard cheered lustily, they’d just been told that money and clever can do quite as they wish, reaping power and status for raping, pillaging, and plundering …

Then the Boyz and Gurlz from the B-school helped the oligarchs in Russia to “better” themselves …

And then, it all came back home … to what is known as the “Homeland” among the clever and slick …

The perfect excuse for selfishness … “It is good”.

DW

It’s always gone on in one fashion or another. I guess a “defining moment” for me was coming home from college to my super-fundie rightwing family after Nixon had been busted. What did they say?? “Nixon is ‘just’ the one who got ‘caught.’ Everyone else does it, too.”

I was, like: WTF?? You’re KIDDING, right?

Oh no. Indeed, my super major “christiany” parents were NOT kidding. Nixon was just fine for them. Whatever it was that Nixon did was “ok” because everyone else does it, too.

I said: so by logical extension, if someone breaks into our house & robs us, and the PD catch them, then we should just *let them go,* because “other people do it, too.” Or, in fact, we shouldn’t even *bother to call the PD,* because hey: sh*t happens?????

Of course, my parents then proceeded to get mad at me, and things devolved from there.

Point being: rightwingers, in my experience, have ALWAYS been willing to be chronically dishonest, to “sell the lemon,” to be crooks, etc, as long as it was THEIR “team” that was “winning.” Any means to an end, in other words, but ONLY IF it was the Republican “team.” Needless to say, completely different rules applied to Democrats (said rules changed daily depending on what was expedient).

It was at that point that I “got” that a large segment of our population was well & truly brainwashed. Of course, my family thoroughly and adamantly supported Ford’s pardon of Nixon: no consequences!!! Reagan-era just continued pushing the envelope.

I might add that Watergate all happened as Pat Robertson was beginning his televangelism brainwashing show, the 700 Club, to which much of my family was addicted… until they switched their addictions to RushGlennSarah.

It’s all part of the continuum, but also ties in with what DW says @139 and Boesky & Gordon Gecko saying: Greed is GOOD!!! Oh yes: and then the megachurches grew & grew and pushed “prosperity” Christianity, and here we are today with our own self-styled Oligarchs, who used the Russian Oligarchs as their role models.

You have a point, but I think what you say and what I say are very closely tied. But thanks for your insights. Don’t disagree.

Another one well said. It’s mind boggling how we can be so left of our family and friends. I’m beginning to think that there really is a gene for sociopathic behavior (which describes your family as well as mine… my dad loves Beck and my mother, a fundie, will only watch Fox). I simply don’t have it. But I know many folks that definitely seem to. It’s currently my pet theory. Not that I can claim it. But it explains a lot. Nice discussion here. Could be expanded exponentially…

The only thing worse is to have a family that has one face thats liberal for others action and the other face that if it’s good for them then fuck the rest of you.

Our system definitely favors the rich. Congress is unable to do anything that threatens profits.

We cannot change the system without Congress and we can’t control Congress unless we change the system. I know it’s bad karma, but I wish they’d all go to hell.

I really think your going to get your wish.There just gona have to die first.

I learned how the US state department arm twisted the German govt not to prosecute 2 CIA thugs who kidnapped an innocent German citizen, in Germany, and took him to a torture center to be tormented. I was aware of the incident, and that the German govt backed off prosecuting and i too, might have guessed that the US pressured them to drop the case. But making an informed guess and having the admission of it, in official writing, from state dept cables, are not the same things.

i hope they fail to pass too