Bush tax cuts Bush deficit increases
Tax cut for over $250,000 a year $100,000 bonus for millionaires

This framing is full of win.

Yes, Virginia, there are lying hypocritical bastards in Congress.

I’m so looking forward to hearing Republicans and Teahadists and Blue Dogs rail against adding nearly a trillion dollars to the national debt,

Good luck with that. If while you’re looking you actually find just one, I hope you’ll let us know. Cause I’d be surprised.

Obama must be thrilled, he get’s to sign onto $900B more deficit funded stimulus over the next two years and he doesn’t have to call it stimulus.

Assholes.

Indeed.

And how much for all those tax cuts, which includes a $5M exemption on estates?

The package would cost about $900 billion over the next two years, to be financed entirely by adding to the national debt, at a time when both parties are professing a desire to begin addressing long-term fiscal imbalances.

Generational theft!

I’m so looking forward to hearing Republicans and Teahadists and Blue Dogs rail against adding nearly a trillion dollars to the national debt, which as we all know is the greatest threat facing the country and is immoral and makes us like Greece and will lead to Hitler just like it did in Germany or something

Well, you certainly are not stupid. Republicans will blame Obama for this in 2012. They already are.

Obama is the one without a spine!

Maybe debt is like cholesterol – there’s good debt (tax cuts) and bad debt (spending). One should always have as much good debt and as little bad debt as possible.

Limbaugh’s been conspicuously silent on this deal. I’m sure he doesn’t dare jeopardize it.

Coming next–a guest appearance by Obama on Limbaugh’s show.

Assholes Asshats.

I prefer that one.

This is why any attempt at broad-based reconciliation with the Right is doomed, however justified or successful Jane’s ad hoc coalitions with them on issues like Fed transparency (or opposition to KORUS?) may be. Few on the Right are even trying to be intellectually honest – and I suspect those few will end up following a path similar to mine, a path that takes them from the Right all the way to the extreme Left. I’m glad that when I was on the Right, my Left friends – while willing to talk patiently with me – did not mince words or attempt to reconcile their beliefs with mine. They told me I was wrong, and I now thank them.

The very terms “Left” and “Right”, although convenient, are thoroughly misleading in their implication that the Left and the Right are mirror images. The Left has not been anywhere near 100% right – I’ll admit I was wrong in giving Obama the benefit of the doubt until very recently – but the Right has been close to 100% wrong. And the Left, by and large, has been trying honestly to find the truth. The Right, by and large, has not.

And the Left, by and large, has been trying honestly to find the truth. The Right, by and large, has not.

This is a great statement. Entirely true, too.

The Right in Washington (and by Washington I mean New York City. The cronies in Washington are essentially glorified administrative assistants at this point) has an interest only in keeping the status quo. They understand, at a purely intellectual level, that the status quo hurts the masses. This is why they lie. I don’t think any of them believe any of it.

These MOTUs (fuck you, Jamie Dimon!) are only concerned with amassing wealth. More wealth than they could possibly spend in 10 lifetimes. I don’t understand it. But this is what they do. For anyone to think otherwise is folly.

Next year Derek Jeter will make $15M. His fed taxes will be $5.227M under current rules, $5.917M if the tax hikes go into affect. I think he’ll be ok either way.

Obama is the one without a spine! the best republican POTUS the cons never had.

Getting to the heart of it to me isn’t that the right is “wrong.” It’s that they don’t give a rats ass. Their whole game is about power and money. They aren’t concerned with doing the “right” thing for anyone or to fix things for america. They don’t even pretend anymore. The thing that really boggled my mind is how they continue to get people to vote for them.

Shhhhh!

We are not supposed to tell Americans that they have been cut out for the wealthy, or that China is the new Super Power. Or that Asian countries are salavating at the new economic boom to continue with Korea.

You are simply not supposed to bring this to the attention of the public. Just look at the MSM. They are doing their best to keep it all under wraps.

Heh.

And unfortunately, I’m finding that it’s only at the rank-and-file level that even the Left is genuine. People at Firedoglake showing me the outlines of the veal pen have forced me to realize that much of the Democratic leadership – not just Obama – is bogus. (And it was the early stages of that realization that led me to Firedoglake in the first place.)

The blatant dishonesty of so much of the Right – both the leadership and the rank and file – is the reason I have misgivings about Jane’s rejection of “tribalism”, even now that I see how many problems exist with the Left’s purported leadership. I’m originally from the other tribe, and I can tell you that there really is a problem with the Right. Of my rightwing friends, not one is still a friend, and trying to talk with them after my flip to the Left was very disillusioning. One important element of my internal revolution was my shock at the extent of blatant abuse, such as torture, by US agents and allies abroad. One jerk I had thought of as a friend told me flat-out that it didn’t bother him that people were being tortured. Charming.

The so-called “rightwing,” or Republicans if you will, solely and only work to enhance the money & power of the super-obscenely-wealthy, who control most of the money made anymore. The so-called “Democrats” are not far behind in kissing the butts of the obscenely wealthy.

That conservative voters continue to go along with this massive shift in wealth to the upper 3% at the expense of conservative voters remains something of a mystery to me. Albeit I do see that the authoritarian mind-set requires being told what to do constantly, and Rupert Murdoch & Roger Aisles (along with others) have been handsomely paid to do just that.

How anyone can listen daily to the likes of RushGlenn remains another mystery to me, but indeed, the dittoheads line up to listen and slaver daily… and thus, this is what we get: continuing *bail outs* for the super wealthy, which inures only & solely to their benefit.

Rush and Beck haven’t told them what to think about this yet. Give them a day or two.

It’s easy: we won, and Obama lost, the weak loser.

Yeah but I’m sure they’re waiting for the official word from the fat slobs.

I hear you. If you’ve been reading and/or blogging here long enough, you are probably aware that most of the “regulars” are very left-wing, but we are also political junkies who pay attention and are really aware. Most “Democratic” voters are just about as low-information as their rightwing counterparts, albeit most who traditionally vote “Democratic” hold similar values to those who post here. That is, they would be appalled to learn that Obama endorses torturing people, as well as assassinating US citizens. Of course, the USA has engaged in torture and assassination probably for as long as we’ve been a nation; it’s just that now it’s really out in the open.

And yes, I, too, have a number of conservative friends who have flat out told me that they don’t give a sh*t if the USA tortures our supposed “enemies.” In fact these conservates flat-out laugh at me for being such a “pussy” and for being opposed to torture. THIS is where we’re at in today’s United States. Make no mistake: the dittoheads are PROUD that the USA tortures people and very heartily and loudly endorse it.

I have the same issue with my wife’s parents. I find that justifying torture, tax cuts for the rich, KORUS, etc., requires a certain shallow level of thinking. If you question someone supporting one of these topics, they typically get angry and demonstrative.

My mother-in-law is a reich-wing nutjob. If I try to frame a debate with her, bringing things into context by demonstrating how an individual policy will effect my family, my kids, etc., she can’t handle it. She has to see these issues as being impersonal in order to justify her beliefs. (She stands behind a lot of things, like torture or her anti-abortion stance, simply because “it’s Christian”. How torture is Christian, I don’t know.)

I still think that at the heart of most folks is something truly decent. There is a lot of hand-holding and backslapping and insulating that goes on in Washington and New York. These folks all keep eachother from seeing the truth, or at least seeing too much of it. This makes it easier to keep fleecing the country.

So totally: the dittoheads have no idea how to think for themselves. I’m not even *trying* to be mean or dismissive; I’m simply being factual.

One jerk I had thought of as a friend told me flat-out that it didn’t bother him that people were being tortured. Charming.

And yet he probably blathers on about “small government” and “liberty” — like every other good little wingtard.

No, me either. It’s not an insult if it’s the way it is. That comment was not made in snark or derision. They are literally waiting until somebody tells them what they should think about it.

I watched most of Ed Schulz’s show last night. It’s telling that, at least in the segments that I saw, the putative leftwing or “Democratic” guests were all seething with rage at Obama’s complete capitulation on the tax cuts, whilst every single rightwing or Republican guest was effulgent with praise over Obama giving tax cuts to the obscenely wealthy.

‘Nuff said: Obama’s a hard-right NeoCon, and his “constituents” were openly praising him last night on the Ed show.

Oh absolutely. My rightwing friends who praise torture as a newfound “value” in their lives will rant on & on about “small govt” (whatever the heck that means… because these same people can NEVER really explain that one) and “liberty” and all kinds of ROT.

It’s total bull shit & meaningless. They are all just parroting what RushGlennSarah tell them to say. The end.

I’m taking “wrong” in a broader sense – one that includes malfunctions of the moral compass as well as factual errors.

I think the fundamental reason that the Right’s leaders still get votes is that the corruption on that side of the divide goes all the way down to the base. They’re willing to cut off their nose to spite their face; they would rather impose privations on themselves than risk the chance that something might go to the supposedly undeserving. They value their free-market or culture-warrior fantasies so much that they will blind themselves to as much of the truth as is necessary to maintain those fantasies. I’m currently reading Matt Taibbi’s Griftopia, and his savage lampoons of the Right in the first two chapters are precisely on target.

This is also why I think the focus on our side should be on raising the awareness of the apathetic or demoralized non-voting public, rather than on flipping politically active rightwingers to our side – even though, ironically, I was one of those flipped, long ago. And this is why I venture to stress this issue. It’s important for strategy.

Thay get peple to vote for them because the Democrat are not honest brokers for the people.Most people vote to remove the democrats not for the Republicans.

Thank you for your valuable insights. You make a good point. I know that for my rightwing friends and family members, it’s almost *impossible* to change their minds.

Attempting to reach out to and educated the demoralized non-voters is a very good idea because there’s a much better chance at actually *reaching and educating them.*

Small government and liberty for white ‘merkans!

In most cases, these people (speaking of the ones I know personally) don’t really *know* what they’re talking about… it’s just spewing out JUNK from RushGlenn that, at the end of the day, has no *real meaning.* It’s just JUNK.

Terrorist.

You bet we’re mad..about the extension in unemployment bennies..enough is enough..and where is the talk of repealing Obummer Care, phasing out all entitlements, SS, Medicare, Medicaid..Double dipping, getting rid of HSA, TSA, Education Dept., Energy Dept., and last but not least, the EPA, which has managed to kill more American jobs than anything else in history,
other than Unions…

Does the Left need something akin to Rush and Fox? Or, as I suspect, is the nature of the Left such that a top down arrangement like this is
not doable and/or desired. And, if so, how do we organize effectively
to sell our vision of America.?

That conservative voters continue to go along with this massive shift in wealth to the upper 3% at the expense of conservative voters remains something of a mystery to me. Albeit I do see that the authoritarian mind-set requires being told what to do constantly, and Rupert Murdoch & Roger Aisles (along with others) have been handsomely paid to do just that.

Authoritarianism is definitely part of it, but I stress the importance of those fantasies I mentioned earlier. They’ve pinned their hopes on material wealth, even though they may deny it at a conscious level. Once, shortly after I was flipped to the Left, I had a discussion with the one leftwing friend who (aside from the authors of the books I had read) had done most of the heavy lifting. He mentioned how George McGovern, campaigning against Nixon in 1972, had again and again encountered voters, themselves far from wealthy, who were offended at anything that smacked even slightly of “soak the rich”. In frustration, McGovern finally asked, “Do they think they’re going to win the lottery?” We agreed that, in effect, they do! They think of the top 3% (or 1%, or one-tenth of 1%, or whatever) as their future selves. Elitism for the masses – that’s the American way. They love the capitalist casino because they think they’re destined to win the jackpot.

I think the key to selling our vision of America is to make that vision explicit. We need to be shamelessly utopian, as many leftists were in the past. The rightwing 1950s time-warp paradise would fade beside our Utopia! The US of the present day, or even of any time in its past that anyone might idealize, would look like Afghanistan beside the nation – or, better yet, world – that we could create if we opened our eyes and put our minds to it.

They love the capitalist casino because they think they’re destined to win the jackpot.

Yes, there’s definitely something in that notion, too; I quite agree but thanks for bringing it up. The Bushco admin certainly spun the notion that *everyone* was middle class and above, which was part of the “reasoning” used to encourage everyone to buy more house than they could afford… because it was part of the “American dream,” and “everyone deserved one.”

I always knew that was bogus, but loads of citizens raced like lemmings to buy homes… many at the very tippy-top of the market, where one would like to *think* that buyers would realize was super foolish…. but they all drank the KOOL AID. I’ll buy this house at this ridiculously inflated price and the FLIP it for more $$$$$ in this casino…

And as we all *should* know, in the casino, the HOUSE always wins.

People are just so stupid & delusional, but they are very much *encourage* to be so by the corporate-owned rightwing media, and Doug Coe’s “Family” infested churches.

Agree. And we MUST find a better way to market our ideas. Quoting facts and figures is not the way to go. We have to use much better PR and avoid allowing the rightwing to define us. That’s another part of the problem.

Well, again, YOU go first.

Stop driving on roads – go build your own to drive on.
Don’t call the Police when something happens to you and yours – deal with it yourself.
Never use the US court system.
Never buy food produced in the USA because the dreaded Ag & FDA agencies are looking out for your welfare – so grow your own, or buy from somewhere there’s no regulations (and good luck with that salmonella)
Never drive over a bridge – build a punt & row across the water

Etc etc etc etc etc

Part of the problem is that if you do care about what’s being done to people, it can lead to an exclusively short-term, fire-fighting, defensive focus. Jane is right about the drawbacks of Obama governing years into the future while neglecting the present – in fact, that remark during one of her TV appearances brought me here – but focusing exclusively on the present is also a mistake. It’s incredibly demoralizing, and makes it difficult to recruit support from among the already demoralized who would otherwise be sympathetic to the cause.

Being in the middle of Matt Taibbi’s Griftopia really made me think about this. The first half of the book, although wickedly funny, was depressing even to me. I just tried for a second to imagine what it must be like for someone whose sole focus is on playing defense, and that thought was almost unendurably depressing. Thinking about the utopian endgame was almost a necessity.

I think the left greatly prefers a bottom-up approach.

A grossly oversimplified generalization:
Right = Trickle Down, money and direction come from the owners.
Left = Percolate Up, money and direction come from the workers.

A bottom-up approach to spread a left-leaning message will come by word-of-mouth, hordes of web sites, viral videos, stand-up comics, and strategically placed “issue” ads on web sites.

Agreed. Amazing how even regular Republican voters are clear on this one – no extension for the top 1%. But the politicians stick to the not tax talking points.

Purity versus compromise – it is tough to know how each approach will play out. I wish the media did a better job of exposing the fraudulent claims that are made about trickle down spending and such. Media highlights the rancor and generally ignores helping the public make sense of the merits of the case.

I put together a few charts (see link below) showing 100 years of tax rate and income trends for the top 1% of earners.

US Income Inequality, as measured by the Gini Index, is at an all time high. We have now joined the ranks of Rwanda, Nigeria, Mexico, and Uganda.

Bottom line:
- Top 1% Income at all time highs
- Top 1% Tax rate near record lows
- Income Inequality at all time high

The top 1% are doing just fine.

Time to stand by the middle class.

Charts and details at:

http://8020vision.com/2010/11/16/when-does-the-wealth-of-a-nation-hurt-its-wellbeing/

Jay Kimball
8020 Vision

It’s always been that way. I’ve had the misfortune to work among rabid conservatives–the IT industry tends to be that way, at least when I was in it. Twenty years ago, after keeping my mouth shut as long as I could, I was finally driven to tell someone I had worked with for over a year that I was a “card-carrying member of the ACLU”. This man looked at me as though I had literally grown horns and a tail in front of his eyes. He never spoke to me again unless forced to by pressure of work.

I say it’s time to fight which I will do via Bernie Sanders Senator from Vermont…. Smile :-)