Yesterday, Michael Lerner had a piece in the Washington Post in which he argued that Obama must face a primary challenge to save his presidency.
With his base deeply disillusioned, many progressives are starting to believe that Obama has little chance of winning reelection unless he enthusiastically embraces a populist agenda and worldview – soon. Yet there is little chance that will happen without a massive public revolt by his constituency that goes beyond rallies, snide remarks from television personalities or indignant op-eds. [...]
But there is a real way to save the Obama presidency: by challenging him in the 2012 presidential primaries with a candidate who would unequivocally commit to a well-defined progressive agenda and contrast it with the Obama administration’s policies.
The stakes are actually much higher than that.
In retrospect, it was unfortunate that the Democrats won such resounding victories in 2006 and 2008 — because they had done little to deserve it. They were brought back into power, not on the strength of their convictions and the soundness and clarity of their platform, but simply because Bush/Cheney and the Republicans in Congress were such an unmitigated disaster. It took two losing wars, the rank criminality of DeLay/Abramoff, and Republican incompetence from Katrina to the economy to get the Democrats back in office.
But what did the Democrats really stand for in 2006 or 2008? Opposition to everything Bush, and that’s about it. That was certainly necessary — there is little question that opposing Bush’s disastrous policies was critical. And Bush’s activist agenda made it difficult to do much else. But that opposition inhibited the development of a clear, affirmative agenda, an agenda which had grown increasingly corporatist and vanilla after the Clinton ’90s — a good decade for the country, to be sure, but not a good decade at all for the Democratic Party. The Democrats did not spend their time in the wilderness crafting a clear rebuke of Reaganism, as they should have.
I remember hearing Nancy Pelosi speak at Netroots Nation in 2008. Someone asked her what the Democratic Party stood for, and she delivered a completely rambling, incoherent answer, filled with random policy goals (we’re for education!, we’re for science!). It was shocking to hear the Speaker of the House be unable to clearly articulate what defined her own party, in one or two short sentences.
It was into this void that Barack Obama campaigned for the nomination. Because the Democratic platform and ideals had been watered down after the Clinton/Bush eras, the party would be defined completely by Obama, for better or worse.
Well, worse it is.
I used to scoff at those who would say as late as 2006 that there was no difference between the parties. How can you say that, I’d ask: do you really think the country would’ve been different under President Gore? But now, Obama has made that argument much more difficult.
By continuing the Bush/Cheney Wall Street bailouts, amplifying the War on Terror in Afghanistan and Pakistan, enhancing the worst of the executive power grabs, refusing to investigate or prosecute the criminality of the Bush/Cheney terror policies, failing to champion serious environmental reforms, by doing a stimulus bill that was loaded up with tax cuts to attract GOP votes, extending the irresponsible Bush tax cuts for the rich — and of course, delivering a Republican health insurance bill, stripped of its meager progressive elements — Obama has all but obliterated the meaningful differences between the Republican and Democratic parties.
With a Republican in the White House, there still would’ve been some stimulus. Maybe one with even more tax cuts, but something, certainly. Remember, the House and Senate were still held by Democrats, and McCain loved to dress up as a moderate for the cameras. No, McCain would not have nominated Sotomayor and Kagan to the Supreme Court, and he would likely have taken a more bellicose posture against Iran and North Korea. But when you’re reduced to SCOTUS nominations and rhetoric, you’re scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Really, to get the GOP position on anything, just add the word “more” to the Obama’s: more tax cuts, more war, more corporatism, more fealty to Wall Street, more screwing of the American worker.
Unless a progressive Democrat challenges Obama from the left, the Democratic Party will be synonymous with Obama’s corporatist, hawkish agenda for years — an agenda which seems to please only the Evan Bayh/Blue Dog wing of the Democratic Party. It certainly does not appeal to independents — whose support of Obama has cratered recently, and certainly not the base of the Democratic Party, who delivered such resounding victories in ’06 and ’08 in opposition to Bush.
Obama’s presidency might be a lost cause, but for the good of the country, the soul of the Democratic Party must be saved. And the only way to do that is to challenge him for the Democratic nomination in 2012.




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great post bt
I don’t know when we started calling for it but most of us here didn’t wait more then a month before we were shouting that we wanted obama primaried
let’s get’er done, we don’t need a wanna be bush calling himself “democrat” getting the best of ourselves, our party, our country
PRIMARY THIS TROJAN HORSE
amen Perris.
Instead of “We Suck Less”, the Democrats’ message needs to be “We’re Not With Him”.
BT, in your list of Obama offenses, you left out the most egregious one of all — setting in motion the mechanism to gut Social Security.
I’m pretty sure it was echan who pointed out long before obama even won the primary that he is a corporatist
I am also pretty certain she warned us that we would not be too thrilled with his presidency
if my memory is correct then that is one prescient girl we have on our boards
The thing is that we have to prepare for the GOP/Media Complex’s efforts to set the narrative that Primary Challenges from the Left are Always Bad (see also: Teddy Kennedy’s challenge of Jimmy Carter in 1980, which is used in the media to blame Teddy for Ronald Reagan).
“Challenge Obama from the Left in 2012 Not to Save His Presidency — but the Democratic Party Itself”
Yup. That about sums it up.
The Kennedy challenge to Carter forced Democrats seriously seeking the Presidency to respect the Party for the next 25 years.
If Obama isn’t challenged, it will create a real moral hazard looking out into the next generation…
Let’s fucking roll! How do we get the primary ball rolling?
we have found out from cables obama acutally lobbied other countries to forgoe investigating bush/cheney for torture/war crimes
man oh man it’s as if obama is related to cheney or something
oh
wait
he is
“Let’s fucking roll! How do we get the primary ball rolling?”
The first thing is finding a willing horse to ride…
How is that even possible?
Feingold? Dean? E. Warren? Grayson? Sherrod Brown?
It’s good to finally see this topic on the front page. Let us know what we can do to help from down in the trenches.
Thanks, BT, for the very cogent and accurate summation. Most of who blog here regularly were not huge Obama fans to begin with, but many of us voted for Obama *hoping* that he’d make an effort to keep at least some of his campaign promises. What happened is the Democratic voters got *suckered* into voting for a hard-right NeoCon ReThuglican who rode into Dee Cee on his Trojan Horse, hiring the dreaded Rahm Emanuel to ensure that the progressive base was sh*t on as much as possible.
Primary this NeoCon conniving Republican parading around in “Democratic drag.” No way, no how will I vote for Obama *ever again.* This venal crook has done way more damage to the Democratic party that I ever imagined in my wildest nightmares. And talk about the Class War on steriods.
Hope the majority of voters – right,left & center – start waking up to how the Oligarchs have taken over and are busily ripping us proles off.
We need a viable third party, where – hopefully – the candidates will resist being bought off by the corporations that OWN Obama lock, stock & barrel.
Good one. Not to mention offshore drilling.
Remember the powerful Yes we can video? We need something as powerfull, to stir progressives and independants.
Are you deliberately leaving out Dennis Kucinich, the only one who campaigned for the office on two previous occasions?
wow Blue Texan, what a thoughtful, clearly considered post – thanks
Absolutley correct, and believe me, the corporate-owned rightwing media will do its d*mndest to villify & diss any left-wing challenger to Obama. The corporate-owned rightwing media KNOWS darn well that Obama is “their” POTUS…
I’d be happy to see Kucinich run. That said, I doubt he’d get the nomination, but I’d be very happy to see him run again. I know that he *caved into Obama* re HCR, but, even so, I think he’s one of the better progressive pols that we’ve got these days.
Thanks, CBL.
How about powerful video bitch slaps exposing Obama’s hollow rhetroric. I’m pretty good with Imovie, let’s make a powerfull FDL commercial.
Moveon and PCCC have gotten great mileage with their videos. I think FDL could greatly benefit by using Jane and co’s arguments and putting them in Youtube form.
The Citizens United coup d’etat guarantees that
from here on out both the Republican and Democratic nominees
will be 100% owned by the ruling caste.
If Obama has a well-funded challenger in 2012, it will be an Evan Bayh clone,
running to his right.
Blue Texan in ’12!
Yeah, I guess I did. It’s just that he is so easily mocked. I got cold feet. I should be ashamed.
He is the strongest anti-war candidate in Congress. We absolutely need someone to make runaway militarism a major issue during the 2012 primaries, regardless of whether or not that candidate ultimately gets the nod.
There’s more at stake than just the Democratic Party, I think. If progressives want to be a viable political force in this country, instead of watching from the sidelines as the clowns who are running it now destroy it, then we need to be seen as the people who defeated Obama. Otherwise, we’ll get tarred with the Obama brush – his policies are progressive policies, as far as a good deal of the country is concerned.
He is truly an honorable man, and he carries no pro-military or pro-corporate baggage.
As long as there’s money to spend for defense, yes.
Whoops, intended that message for another thread. Back to regularly scheduled programming. Whew, thanks edit feature.
No, we need to organize around a theme. Defeating Obama has to be the goal, not replacing him with someone else. Make that they priority, and someone who appeals to us will probably turn up.
I thought Lerner’s piece crystallized what many had been thinking for some time now. I had sometimes wondered how you could pull off the trick of having a primary challenger who was really intended to make Obama and his advisors pay attention, and to do so without giving up the news that he or she wasn’t really after the nomination, which would be in danger of fracturing the party vote.
Then I realized that it doesn’t matter. You can announce it at every turn, that this is the intention, and it won’t matter because no one in positions of power ever listens to progressives/liberals about anything. Ever. Not really.
They’ll pander to the left when there’s an actual threat from the left. Not before. That’s what the right learned, already.
It’s just a large majority of low information voters recoil (unjustly) to really really anti-war pacifists. A truly winning message is more like Obama’s “i’m not opposed to all wars just dumb wars”.
Afghanistan is now a dumb war.
As a message, and framing, it’s much much easier to attack dumb wars rather than war.
I think the best material is already out there
lotsa good pics, too
Good luck with that…..let me know how that turns out for ya!
You last sentence, Cujo359, is precisely correct, in content AND implication.
DW
Black Americans are the base of the Democratic Party. How do you think this will go over with them?
A primary challenge to Obama would be an unmitigated disaster for every damn issue the Left is concerned about. If you don’t think so, consider how the Left did during the decade following Kennedy’s challenge to Carter.
Boo-yah! Whomever might be willing to step up and/or be recruited needs to frame the debate in moral terms, whether it be war, health care, rebuilding infrastructure, creating jobs for the millions who are suffering, and about a gazillion more issues that I can’t think of right at the moment. It’s time to very vocally explain just exactly why progressive ideas are good for the county in general, and good for its citizens, in particular. MSM notwithstanding, I think those arguments, properly framed, have real power, given the desperation in the country right now.
I second the motion.
True. It’s probably also easier to point out how wasteful and dangerous high levels of defense spending can be.
For my part, I don’t think we’ll entirely do without war as a species any time soon, the instinct is in our DNA. We’ve been defending territory since we were proto-primates, maybe earlier. It’s why we’ve survived. What we should be able to do is make sure we don’t fight for stupid reasons.
I think you’re right that the only major positive contributions were the nominations of the two Supreme Court justices. If it weren’t for those I would have to believe he’s a republican mole.
Other alleged accomplishments include: a seriously flawed health program that, in any event, doesn’t come into effect until republicans seize power and tear it apart; toothless financial “reform”; homeowner’s rescue filled with nothing but catch 22′s; and a failed and inadequate stimulus program.
It is quite possible to “save” Obama’s presidency, as in getting him re-elected in 2012, I think it may be an open question as to whether it is still possible to save the Democratic party over the next six to ten years. The devastation wrought by Obama’s leadership (or lack thereof), both as President and as operative head and control of the party apparatus, over the last two years is pervasive and debilitating.
And the asininely craven “healthcare reform” he engineered as his signature issue, and tagged the Democrats as a party to irretrivably, will set off an increasingly stinky set of bombs infuriating the public. For instance, after coverage prices skyrocketing between now and then, and coverage benefits being gutted and reduced, when the mandate to buy kicks in. Oh, and when people finally realize that the rhetoric that there will be no preexisting exclusion doesn’t mean that anybody can afford coverage that covers it and, more importantly, that the “no more recissions” is just a flat out lie and that what Obama did, in fact, was ratify and sanction in law the very grounds carriers have been using for years to effect policy cancellations and recissions.
This cement collar, the betrayal of the Constitution as to civil liberties and the rule of law, the screwing of the populous in favor of Wall Street banks and the rich, and other issues jammed through by Obama et. al cannot be removed from the Democratic party as they struggle over the next few years to stay afloat. To date, it is hard to imagine a more catastrophically devastating first two years of a presidency to the party in power.
Very different time. And very different people.
The democratic party has a soul?
Where do I sign up? As soon as something looking like a real organization, with a solid website and a game plan shows up, there are a lot of us ready to roll up our sleeves and get to work on the primary campaign…
Obama is such a threat to progressivism that I’m going to vote for his Republican opponent in 2012, and I have never voted Republican in my life. Even if it’s Sarah Palin, I will vote for her.
I know it sounds like an Onion headline. But we should primary President Obama, with 2008 presidential candidate Obama?
I mean 2008 Obama would destroy 2010 sellout Obama.
Torture / Murder ?treason it’s not just bush anymore.
After two years he’s tarred himself with that brush, on purpose.
When history is written he will be among the losers. But boy did he have his day in the sun.
And a shout out to his war criminal buddy eric ,the toilet, holder.( flush it away brother)
Ian Welsh was pointing this out, quite some time ago, I’m afraid. It’s a fairly obvious point – much of the progressive political establishment has supported Obama. Why they’ve done that is irrelevant. We are they, as far as many folks in America are concerned.
It’s all about proper framing. The pain is cutting across all segments of the society, whether they be racial, religious, young, old, educated, not educated, etc.
Preserving net neutrality is, I believe, a major issue as regards messaging and framing. Moreover, people across the spectrum will get touchy about someone screwing around with their intertoobz machine. Again, it’s about framing.
Agree.
Yes, the country has grown more conservative. Consequently, I fear the results will be worse.
SUCH a good post
if we DON’T primary obama then in his loss the repukelicans are going to “claim” obama was “too far to the left”
they have the bully pulpit and they will blame obama for being too liberal rather then his failure being because he was far to far to the right
cujo, WELL DONE
Yes, ShotoJamf, it is time to speak to what a civil, sane and humane, society would look like … what it would feel like.
Many would listen and most who heard would welcome such progress and possibility.
And word of mouth, one on one conversation, is one of the best, perhaps the only, means that cannot be shut down at the whim of the ruling class.
DW
i don’t really believe the country has grown more concervative, the people have a misbegotten idea about what they are or are not
most people believe in the principles of the progressive, they just identify themselves as concervative
After 220 years, that’s how our system has turned out. In order to obtain the financing to obtain high office, it is necessary to later beholden oneself to those who foot the bill. The republic is the casualty.
I’m reminded of why I never liked the guy. Commercials that are nothing but empty phrases overlaid with cheering masses.
The Nov. vote from the Dems was a embarrassment..I don’t think that “someone needs fire up the Dem base” I think the ‘base needs to look in the Mother f–in mirror and wake up’
let’s check the numbers
- on AA Unemployment
- on AA Food Insecurity
- on AA access to Healthcare
- on AA High School Graduation Rates
and while we’re at it, let’s check the current sentencing disparity rates
shall we ?
Yes, I am sure Black Ameicans will abandon Obama, if the issue of net neutrality is properly framed.
I agree. It is about framing. But for some reason, the Democrats are entirely incapable of framing issues. Obama is a lawyer. The stock and trade of a lawyer is to be able to frame issues so that you can convince others of your position. The fact that Obama doesn’t do this makes me extremely skeptical of any claim to liberalism on his part. Either he’s really a status quo conservative, or in addition to being a weak president, he’s also a bad lawyer.
One on one in the 50 state plan.
Glad you are back, DW.
This may be a great time to enlist trans-partisan union. The enemy of me enemy is my friend.
Think how bat-shit terrified Axelrod would be if we invited tea-partiers to primary and defeat Obama?
Axelrod and Obama hated when Limbaugh used Operation Chaos to prolong Hillary’s primaries.
I mean if Joe Kennedy can get in bed with the mob to elect JFK, I have no qualms with uniting with legal yet misinformed tea-partiers.
Any real democrat can challenge Obama
1st Obama knows that few Black candidates win statewide re-election campaigns, so his chances of winning a nationwide re-election are bleak. (this is just facts)
2nd Obama has problems with his black base, Cornel West has attacked Obama on his left flank. Any candidate running against Obama can say Obama is more Clarence Thomas and less Martin Luther King.
3rd Obama is a Neo-Liberal, that has all but pissed off his liberal base.(no black candidate can win a re-election bid without the help of hard core liberals)
When you look at the IOWA primary, remember Hillary the Neo-Liberal came in 3rd behind Obama and Edwards. the IOWA caucus is more liberal, and any candidate attacking Obama from the left will probably win. (Obama lied a lot in IOWA)
Obama, Axelrod, Gibbs, Jarett, Plouffe, all know Obama has no chance of winning re-election, chances are he would lose to Palin, because without hard core liberals supporting Obama he has no SHOT!!! this is all common knowledge in DC and out side of DC.
the chance of a real liberal winning in 2012 is great! (because all any democrat has to due is make it issue campaign, they could build their campaign around stuff like the public option, ending wars, fixing mainstreet, etc. stuff all americans want)
A lot of us ignored the Cornel West attack on Obama, my african american friends say if you put Obama closer to Clarence Thomas, a real democrat would still receive a large number of black votes in the general.
Axelrod, Gibbs, and Plouffe made a huge mistake treating Obama like Clinton. Clinton could get a couple of GOP votes, Obama will get no GOP votes, and plus the more Obama ignores his liberal base, the easier he becomes to primary.
I find it hard to believe that the Dem Establishment will allow a serious primary challenge to Obama, in spite of the fact that it is so obviously necessary.
We should start putting together a 3rd party challenge now. Voter dissatisfaction with both parties is at an all time high. If a third party can succeed now, one never can.
Yes, that makes pefect sense.
And have any of those numbers improved under the first AA president?
All that is true, but the Republicans managed to rebuild their party in exactly two years, despite an even longer list of Bush/Cheney fuckups.
People have super short memories these days.
About time. We’re past due for the Democrats to start putting both distance from Obama and real pressure on him.
He can either start acting like a real Democrat or get out of the party, but no more free passes from the Dems on Obama continuing this watered down Reaganism BS that has wrecked the country.
The Democratic Party is already a lost cause. Given the current system of government, no substantive change away from the status quo is possible without the emergence of a third party candidate. The corruption of money by the wealthy elite is far too embedded in our current duopolistic system. To believe something good can come from the Democratic Party is buying into the myth that they represent something different than the Republicans.
You’re confusing cause and effect. Carter had a primary challenge because he wasn’t doing well enough as President. He lost party support thanks to trying to be more conservative, and thanks to some rather insular behavior on the White House’s part toward the rest of the government. Kennedy was a symptom, not a cause, of Carter’s problems.
People who want to defend lousy party leaders trot out stuff like this. The plain fact is that if Carter were doing well, Kennedy, or any other potential challenger, never would have tried a run at him in the first place. And Carter didn’t handle his relationship with the party or its constituencies well enough to prevent it.
As progressives we really need to give up on the democrats already and focus on a third party. The democratic party is simply too broken to be fixed.
Great analysis of the Iowa Primary.
Except, of course, Iowa doesn’t have one.
“at the end of the day he’s Jackie Robinson, I’m waiting for Willie Mays”
Professor Cornell West
March 1, 2010
willing to bet he’s since apologized to Jackie Robinson fans :D
For my next president – I want the best damn lawyer on earth. The people need an advocate and a tough negotiator, not a made for television puppet who rose to fame based on a speech. (Hilary was right about that part.)
Yes, but the Dems do not have the unity or ruthlessness to do what the Republicans did. And the Republicans will never just roll over and take it like Obama has. That is the difference. And by the way, excellent post.
Good post.
Can’t do any of the things beneficial to the society until the immoral and unnecessary spending on the warz ends.
I have some friends who are of the wingnut persuasion, more or less. I work them a lot through email. I stay away from the hot-button stuff (abortion, religion, even war, etc.), and try not to be preachy or shrill, but when I see an opening, I definitely take the shot. I believe I am having some degree of success, especially when it comes to the area of economics. People are starting to get hip to the fact that they’re being fucked over, even though they don’t quite understand why and/or by whom (or what).
That intertoobz machine has changed the game, which is why I am very temperamental about the issue of net neutrality. Maintaining a level playing field is critical.
Can’t argue with any of that. But the first step has to be a primary challenge, yes? Even if it fails in the short term.
uh no. of course I’m sure we’re to be treated to a lecture on the horrible conditions this poor President and his Party inherited
I know that Accountability Now has as its focus to fight “Blue Dogs” and elect progressives. However, I would personally support attack ads on Obama for his absolute malfeasance and spineless leadership. Time for the base to fight back with “Change we can believe in.”
How do you feel Carter would have fared in the general against Raygun if there were no Kennedy challenge?
If that quote is accurate, he should have. I don’t think Obama’s a Jackie Robinson, either. Robinson held his tongue when he was taunted for the first couple of years in the big leagues, at Branch Rickey’s request, IIRC. He let his ability to play baseball do the talking for him. He helped make his team a winner, which in those days of the Brooklyn Dodgers, was quite an accomplishment.
So far, Obama has shown me no comparable talent.
I’m not suggesting using NN as an issue in this context. I am saying that it’s very important in the overall scheme of things.
As cbl has noted at 59, there are plenty of issues that really hit home. Bringing them up – repeatedly – is, I think, a very good tactic. The churches can help here, as well. I guarantee you they’re feeling the economic squeeze, also. It’s a process that won’t happen overnight, but that certainly doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try. I won’t give these ruling class fuckers the satisfaction. If I have to go down, then I’m going down swinging…
Yes, Oldgold, the truth is very dangerous, better to believe that allowing things to become completely untenable, completely unbearable for many human beings is preferable to examining myths like the one you have, by implication, put forth, that the black community supports Obama in every way and in all things. Oldgold, It is well that you can tolerate years, if not decades, of crushing and heartless “neo feudalism”, for that is what all communities in this nation face, except for that very small “community” of the masters and their minions.
Oldgold you appear to fear change even more than Obama, but you cloak such fear in terms of fear and concern for the rest of us … who are already losing what you apparently fear you MIGHT lose.
All that you ever counsel is doing nothing and being very afraid… yet you admit that the status quo is not as great or comfortable for everyone else as it must, apparrently, be for you.
You sound more like a concern troll with every comment you make, perhaps you imagine that others are weighing your concerns against their own worries, fears, perceptions, and understandings?
In truth you seem more concerned with the survival of a destructive and careless democratic party than with the suffering and survival of your fellow human beings.
I do not necessarily think that to be so, yet one wonders, Oldgold, one wonders.
DW
Hard to understand how anyone could even ask that question.
Yes but the problem is 99% of the democratic party are corrupt to the point of criminality. So to just focus on obama will leave the others off the hook.
I think the primary challenge should begin…like…immediately. It’s time to start recruiting. If anything, it will put pressure on Obama, let him know in no uncertain terms that his base is walking away.
The same. Carter lost thanks to all the things I mentioned, plus the rather obvious embarrassment of the Iran hostage crisis. “America Held Hostage” played a lot better, I think, because Carter was seen as pretty ineffectual to begin with. Think “the sweater”, “malaise”, etc.
Carter was probably a better President than he was given credit for, but his image problems weren’t due to Teddy Kennedy.
I was a voter at that time. It was one of the first elections I could vote in, so my memory of how I felt about things, and how the people I discussed politics felt about them, is still pretty clear even now. Kennedy’s primary challenge was just a sign of dissatisfaction many of us felt back then. None of us were saying “Kennedy challenged him, so I’m voting for Reagan.” It was about how we felt about where the country was going.
I voted for Anderson that year, BTW. Worked on his campaign a bit, too.
We see the same reality.
And seek the same solution.
DW
it’s a verbatim quote. and remember, that was 9 months ago – Professor West has become a little less circumspect :D
Don’t think West’s comment was meant to demean Jackie Robinson, who really was a giant among men. Think he might have meant that Obama is not one who can hit it out of the park, like Mays did.
I will not vote for President Obama a second time. BUT, I seriously doubt that any primary challenger will arise from within the Democratic Party. I’m talking mechanics here. Wouldn’t anything along this line all have to happen at the National convention? What existing Democrat has enough Party support, clout, popular support etc. to unseat an incumbent Dem Pres? Answer – none.
(I thought, and I could be wrong, that deciding candidates is the prerogative of the Party, and that actual elections with voter participation, while customary, are not required.)
For this reason, the only real contender would have to mount an outsider, third party candidacy, knowing in advance that they will be essentially completely ignored by the MSM, probably not get invited to debates, etc.
This also could make Bernie Sanders an obvious contender if he would consider it since he is already a third party outsider. Or a Green if they can entice someone credible. Or, I keep thinking if Labor doesn’t want to go down the tubes permanently, they should build a Labor Party real fast.
A new labor Party would probably attract federal workers (thanks Obama!)teachers unions, nurses unions, etc. They could also make single payer one of their planks since the HCR did NOTHING to reduce costs and premiums are skyrocketing. My suggested name for a new Labor/Progressive Party would be The W2 Party, meaning that it represents all working Americans and that the major goals are to preserve and improve the quality of life for All Americans, education, social safety nets, healthcare, living wages, end budget draining wars, build infrastructure,etc. etc. etc.
I really think daydreaming about a challenger from within the Party is just a waste of time. Even if Obama stepped down, we would probably just get one more NeoLiberal Corporatist Centrist in Democratic Sheeps Clothing pawned off on us.
JMHO
I doubt it’d be somebody within the party because they’ll get “talked to” by the muckety-mucks (whores for the Hamilton Project or DLC) in the party; i.e. no monetary or organizational support
It’d have to be someone nationally famous, and/or independently wealthy in order to get their message out
Who that is, I have no idea
This is a completely different country now in which we are dealing with not only the deterioration of our infrastructure, not only with deterioration of our social safety nets, but with a government-corporate cabal.
In addition, don’t forget, President Carter won the primary, but lost the battle against Ronald Reagan (in large part because if you are a democratic or republican candidate, then you better govern based on those principles). So, knowing that President Obama is a failure for progressives or even basic democratic principles (as defined from past party platforms) and is instead completely pro-corporate and likely to lose, what do WE have to lose by supporting a TRUE democratic candidate?
Wonder all you want.
Those facts than should be enough to negate any reluctance for a primary challenge based on what happened in ’80.
In that case, he sort of has a point, though Robinson could hit for power, too.
There is no way that a challenge from the left within the Democratic Party will go anywhere. President Obama has high approval among African-Americans. In addition, the last I checked, his numbers were still pretty good with those who call themselves liberals. No one within the Democratic Party has the guts to challenge him.
Nader would have no problem challenging him, but he would get even fewer votes than he did in the previous elections. He wouldn’t even be on anyone’s radar screen.
I thought that an “independent” sort like Bloomberg might make Obama pay more attention to his base, as he and the nutty Republican he will likely run against would have to cede the “middle” to Bloomberg, but I don’t know… Perot did not push Clinton to the left.
In short, I see no answer, no way to turn the Democratic Party around.
the USA must end these crazy wars!
the military has to face reality the USSSR is gone! the USA does not have the money to blow up nations and re-build them anymore. (1 trillion plus USA military budget to fight IRAQ? the military industrial complex has went off the deep end)
We can throw out everything we know about the effects of primarying a sitting president, because the USA is in a Depression, and the current president ideas will not get us out of this one.
Obama has made some critical mistakes! Obama knows he has little to no chance of winning in 2012, it would have been tough for Obama to win re-election if he done some progressive stuff, but Obama has made the decision to piss off his progressive base which is just political suicide for any Black Candidate trying to win a national election.
That alone is enough reason to primary Obama and it’s a hugely signature issue for the left and for the party. If we were to make that our core message — that we are challenging Obama and the party to save Social Security — just let them paint us as radical socialists or whatever.
We have to save the middle class from the bipartisan plan to destroy it.
Exactly. Just look at what happened to Howard Dean. He had soaring popularity but the dem establishment didnt like that so they made sure to destroy him. Of course they had help as he didnt run a very good campaign. Unfortunately now Dean seems like hes sold out and become part of the problem. We really need somebody fresh. Ive never been a fan of kucinich as hes a liar and an egomaniac and has no personality at all. Thats besides the fact that he just comes off as a creepy old man now.
Yes, it should be, particularly that part I added about voting third party that year. Anderson polled a fairly significant percentage that year (more than Nader did in 2000). I daresay most of his votes came from dissatisfied liberals.
“The Revolution will not be funded!”
It’s no good pitting one corporate boot-licker against another. Our candidate should be supported by the citizens (almost) exclusively. We need someone who won’t have to pay back anyone but the voters.
In which election cycle – the primaries or the general election?
In the primaries, realistically it’s likely that Obama will get most of the black vote, Cornel West to the contrary notwithstanding. (I would be delighted to be proven wrong about this, but that’s how I see it at the moment.) But if turnout (on which everything depends in any case!) is high enough, white progressives will be able to defeat blacks and white “moderates”/”independents” together, if it comes to that.
If Obama is defeated in the Democratic primary, he will no longer be a factor in the general election, and at that point, it’s likely that blacks (with Cornel West and others appealing to them as voices of sanity) can be persuaded to close ranks behind the progressive Democratic candidate. The Republicans, under Tea Party influence, are likely to make the task easier by nominating someone from the hard Right (ideally Palin – we can always hope – but even if they ultimately nominate a former “mainstream” Republican, he’ll sound like Palin in drag by the time the Tea Party is through intimidating him).
Ah, thanks, Oldgold, ya just made my day.
Permission to wonder.
And from Oldgold, no less.
I be blessed.
;~DW
I think you’re most likely correct. I don’t see a modern-day equivalent of Ted Kennedy – someone who can challenge Obama without fearing for his own position. The “leaders” now are all into leading from behind.
That’s one of the reasons that I emphasize that the goal has to be defeating Obama first, as progressives. The how is less important. If we want to have any relevance at all in the next decade or two, that has to be the most important thing.
I’d love to see that 3rd Party. The sad fact I think it that until we prove that we can defeat the Democratic Party by taking away enough votes for them to lose, I don’t think we have a prayer that they’ll listen to us. They haven’t listened to us in decades. They think we have no where else to go. We have to demonstrate that we do.
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Blue Texan and the FDL survivors:
Welcome aboard, Brother Texan some of us have been sayin for two years that the “political moment” allows for some real structural change to our politics. In fact I would say that if the period between 2005 and November of 2006 and the period 2007-2008 taught us ANYthing it is that a political party can restructure itself and recapture power without a strong national leader. Ironically enough, Howard Dean’s complete remake of the Democratic Party following his 2004 triumph of creating a national campaign without indenturing himself to the corporate donars, was coopted by ObamaRahma and then dismantled in a larceny that is only rivaled by the bankster’s theft of the federal treasury through TARP.
I have been arguin’ here for over a year that we have the opportunity to create a truely grassroots, progressive party with a decentralized, cooperative leadership structure through the DNC and state parties. In or out of executive power, the DNC would focus the Democratic Party’s policies and positions and provide a shadow governmental alternative when the executive is held by the opposition. There was a moment in 1968 when such a movement arose around the party convention platform fight, the anti-war movement in state caucuses and the Freedom Democratic Party movement in the South. If we can take over the state party structures county by county and district by district in all 50 states by linking the end of the wars in the Middlre East with jobs and economic recovery, we save the Democratic Party and restore real democratic politics in the country and Obama won’t be President in 2012.
Doing this requires a lotta folks who have been makin’ a lotta noise and throwin a lotta things at their TV sets ta get off their asses and get to a local party meeting and ORGANIZE…and there is no place in this movement for Sunshine Patriots and passive-agressive masochists who encourage folks to give up their birthright and stay home from the polls.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION IF YOUR NOT GUNNA USE IT!!
To be clear, both Lerner and Blue Texan are proposing challenging from the Left not with winning the nomination as the goal, but pulling the spectrum of politics back from where it is now, running as it does now from the right to the extreme right.
A challenger from the right won’t force Obama to move to the left. Only a challenge from the Left will do that. That’s why things have slid so far to the right, because rightward extremists are pulling it that way. Democrats have been afraid to allow anything “extreme”, which has been a disastrous mistake.
Obama has no reason to try to please the left now. He and his advisors figure “Where else are they gonna go, huh?”. That has to change.
1st Obama can’t win a national election, with only African American votes
2nd Obama can’t win a national election without his liberal base.
Obama has loss his liberal base, so he can’t win in 2012. Why? how many african americans are currently in the senate? 0
Few African Americans win statewide re-elections, and most keep their liberal base, Obama has loss his liberal base.
do you think Obama is going to win some GOP votes? he is not.
Plus any smart democrat that attacks Obama from left, will make Obama more Clarence Thomas, remember Martin Luther King was ANTI WAR, Obama is more WAR.
Primarying Obama is very easy!
Because Obama is not going to win in 2012 regardless.
A black candidate without an active and energize liberal base is not going to win anything! PERIOD
IOW, someone like Ted Kennedy. I don’t see an equivalent these days, at least not anyone with both the means to be independent and something like national recognition.
Kucinich admitted to having seen UFOs. I have, too, so I only took it to mean that he had seen objects flying which he couldn’t identify as ordinary aircraft or what have you. Even so, it became a talking point used to discredit him as a “serious” candidate in 2008. That is some baggage which would have to be dealt with. I like Kucinich just fine, but we can anticipate a media-blitz labelling him “Moonbeam” or something…
Jonathan Turley??
I have to disagree, but it is not because of the idea of challenging Obama in 2012. A lot of us feel that way.
I have to start with the fact that I expected the Obama that I got. Most Presidents who rise from the ranks of the Senate this quickly are weak. When I heard comparisons to JFK, I knew that Obama was going to be weak and I hoped that he would choose a strong attack dog to balance himself out. He did not. Biden does not match up well when compared to LBJ, who was a force to be reckoned with. The only reason I voted for Obama was McCain showed he was worse.
Obama is not an attacker. He is a compromiser. That works well in the Senate, but not in the President. Obama is not a leader.
The problems in the Democratic Party are many, but they echo the problems of the nation as a whole. After thirty years worth of baseless Conservative rhetoric, people believe that tax cuts mean prosperity, that what is good for business is good for everyone, that money trickles down, etc. People in general have bought into the belief of the American Dream, and yet there is more upward mobility in those ‘Socialist’ nations than there is in the US. What Liberals and the Democrats have been unwilling to do is go on an education offensive.
One of the things that I am fond of saying on LGR is that there is only one thing that trickles down from the rich- and that’s piss and crap. My great-grandmother said that, and she was among the wealthy in the Dominican Republic. She gave up a posh lifestyle to move to New York City to raise her five children on her own because of the theocracy in the DR. Now the nation she moved to is heading towards theocracy and the destruction of democracy all because of ignorance.
What Lerner fails to appreciate is there are a whole lot of people who voted for Obama who just won’t believe his populist, progressive campaign messages again. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Even if I voted for his primary challenger, that wouldn’t mean Obama would be my default candidate should he defeat that challenger. I’d still vote OtO, (Other than Obama)
Rhetorical question at this point.
Feingold has a track-record of integrity on issues which matter. Grayson might be a good VP pick, but he has less voting history and a reputation for “publicity stunts”. I LIKE his publicity stunts, but they’re not enough to make him “presidential”.
“Yes but the problem is 99% of the democratic party are corrupt to the point of criminality.”
Exactly! So, what better way it there to act than to go after the head of the snake (in the grass)? IMHO, agreeing with your statement, it makes little sense to try and change the Democratic Party. If Obama is threatened with a primary challenge perhaps some viable progressives will lead a grassroots movement. I’m old enough to remember Eugene McCarthy.
I suppose I’m right on schedule, then. When I first became active in writing comments (less than a month ago, although I registered much earlier), I thought primarying Obama was an unwise desperation move, and we should focus on primarying DINO Senators and Representatives (which also remains critically important, BTW). Now I’m fully on board with a primary challenge to the President. It wasn’t mainly the comments from others here on Firedoglake that brought me around – it was the breathtaking acts of betrayal of the Left committed by Obama himself, after the midterm losses (which also would not, by themselves, have come close to persuading me to give up on the President).
The speed of this turnaround – and it does sound like I’m typical in this particular respect – should be kept in mind by anyone who still thinks a primary challenge is hopeless.
Excellent post. Thank you. I didn’t read the Washington Post article, but I think many of us have been thinking the same for sometime now. We can’t look at the percentage of Democrats and Independents who didn’t bother voting in the midterms and not be concerned with the lack of progress for progressives and the direction of the country. Many of our people are teetering on third world conditions. We have a recalcitrant and reactionary opposition hell bent on supporting a plutocracy. We have a president who seems ignorant of the commitment and goals of his enemies. We have a president who seem oblivious to the dire condition of his country and her people.
Ever heard of Alan Keyes? do blacks come out and vote for him in droves? No
Let us give Blacks more credit, they are issue voters like most americans
What is Obama going to say at Debates?
I was for the Public Option before I was against it
I was against More War, before I was for it
I was for mainstreet before, I was against main street
any intelligent democratic candidate will make sure that African Americans voters know, that Obama may be more Alan Keyes than Martin Luther King
Obama has made a huge mistake!!! he can’t protect his left flank.
How many African Americans are the senate people? 0
this is common knowledge in DC and all over the USA, Obama not re-electable
First, it is not a completely different country.
Second, I am do not agree that Carter governed in a manner that was not consistent with the principles of the Democratic Party. Kennedy’s campaign was about vanity. When he announced, Mudd asked him why and he was stumped for an answer.
Third, the notion that Obama is completely pro-corporate is hyberbolic nonsense.
Fourth, we have everything to lose if one of these new Reublicans wins 2012.
Now, like you, in certain respects I am dsappointed with Obama. Most specifically, the size of the stimulus and his approach in Afghanistan. But, I believe a primary would be a disaster for progressive causes for a generation.
Spot on. In addition, there are very few black voters in some midwestern states like Iowa and Minnesota. You cannot win either state without high voter turn in liberal districts. Obama won the election in the midwest and that is where he is going to lose it. The independents and liberals are both disillusioned, the wars are unpopular and the Wall Street influence is suspect. He looks like a disconnected elitist to moderates and he is infuriating the hard core liberal base that keeps the lights and the furnace fired up.
Citizen Margaret:
There are literally millions of folks just like you and folks like Axelrod know it…there is no possibility of Obama recapturing the base that he shit on these last 2 years, he is toast. There IS, however, a very good possibility that even if the Democrats lose the White House in 2012 there won’t be a governing concensus without a coalition between progressives and anti-corporatists in the Congress.
I don’t want him primaried to save HIS Presidency. I want him primaried by a real Democrat to replace him. He will never be a real Democrat. He has shown his stripes. He does not believe deeply in anything. He is willing, if not eager, to compromise away any and all progressive goals in the name of being accomodating to an opposition that is mocking his weakness and out to destroy the left. As a leader, he looks like a double agent playing for the other side. “Save his Presidency,” As far as I am concerned, we can’t rid ourselves of him fast enough. Imagine what else he might give up the nest two years.
Would love to see Obama and Grayson debate. I imagine that Grayson would win the day. He’s clever and quick and Obama doesn’t debate well IMO.
Yes. See “why I voted for Anderson” at #89. One thing that we need to firmly establish as progressives is that our votes do not belong to the Democratic Party. Until that happens, as I’ve said far too many times, we will be irrelevant, and the country will continue to move rightward politically.
The Dem Party seems to think that they are entitled to our votes although they don’t earn them. They might get a shock in ’12.
And to be honest, I don’t see the beltway and establishment Democrats being willing to forge, or even take part in such a coalition. They are too jealous of their own power and let’s face it: Dirty Fucking Hippies aren’t ruling caste. I can’t foresee the future but it’s hard for me to imagine the establishment Democrats pulling something out of their collective hat that is going to placate the base that they so hate.
I’m hip. There is a damned good reason that I never joined the Democratic Party. Rahm is wrong. I’m more disgusted with what’s become of traditional Democrats than I am afraid of what Republican rule will do.
You sound exactly like bush apologizers did during his reign. There actually used to be quite a few people on this site that had the same opinion. Fortunately people are seeing the light of how dreadfully corrupt obama is as well as what an arrogant asshole he is. And just how dreadful and useless the democratic party has become.
This country has SERIOUS problems. If people keep just accepting whats going on things will never change and we will become a third world country. We are well headed in that direction as it is.
Create a virtual primary opponent: we have the issues and the majority of voters – build this and the candidate will come.
Yeah. Again, I’m not nearly as afraid of Republicans as I am of the Democrats BECOMING Republicans and leaving us with no real choice, (not that we’ve had much choice anyway).
My hope personally is that all of this talk isnt just that talk. I hope people on here really do something anything to start making changes happen. I really think the democratic establishment is expecting that liberals will bitch and moan but in the end theyll just vote for obama again anyway as they always do because like they say themselves it could be so much worse.
Well some of us are tired of that crap. We actually think this country has potential and would like to say that come to fruition.
I had not previously given it consideration but the caste analogy does seem very applicable. Liberals have indeed become pariahs and establishment Dems are afraid to even stand in proximity, lest they also be viewed as unclean.
do you think Obama can win 2012?
We can’t ignore the Obvious, no Black Candidate can win a re-election statewide without hard core liberals. Period! Obama has piss off the entire Dem base.
Obama, Axelrod, Gibbs, Plouffe, made a huge mistake. Making Obama a neo-liberal was insane!
the smartest thing democrats can do is primary OBAMA.
how many people think the nation is on the right track? 1%
this is depression politics!
Obama has little to no chance of winning in 2012.
If Democrats want any chance of winning the White House in 2012, they have better primary and beat Obama. Because Obama is not going win, a national race in the middle of a DEPRESSION.
Exactly. They don’t listen to Krugman because he describes himself as a liberal. They shun Glenn Greenwald for the same reason and both of them are consistently and demonstrably correct much more often than not. They might as well have announced that they had leprosy or that they think Hitler was right.
America has indeed become an aristocracy. Its actually bizarre because most of the problems that people are dealing with really are “lower” cast problems. If youre rich you dont need a job. You can afford good healthcare and be more mobile and get a good educaiton and all of that. Its bizarre because people in this country have accepted that this is democracy. That anything other then rich people being above and beyond the law is socialism. As is helping the poor. Alot of it i think goes into the brainwashing of people into believing fascism is capitalism.
I totally agree with you!
Obama is not winning in 2012. Not going to happen
You’ve no interest in “progressive causes”, Oldgold, despite what you would have us believe.
Obama is widely perceived as a progressive in the hinterland and he, right now, is is busily destroying progressive chances for decades.
If those who believe as you do hold sway, then all chances for a civil society, a just, humane and decent society, in this nation may be lost forever.
That you continue with your obstinate, scolding, and pearl clutchinly offended “nonsense” suggests that, like Obama, it is only yourself, ultimately, whom you care about.
You offer NOTHING but tired, worn-out fears and empty surmises.
Which is sad, as surely you are capable of a much more noble sensibility than this pathetic “pragmatism” which smacks of deliberate defeatism with the intent of disuading and discouraging others on a very calculated level, indeed.
DW
I don’t understand what the Obama defenders fear about Republican rule. Is it a perpetual state of war? Is it everything for the rich and nothing for the rest? Is it shipping hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs overseas? Is it attacks on the social safety net? Is it fundamental religious viewpoints becoming incorporated into legislation? Is it a right wing SCOTUS that will allow unlimited corporate money in elections? Is it illegal detention? Is it espionage on American citizens or unwarranted searches and seizures? Or is it just the satisfaction of seeing that “D” win?
“unless he enthusiastically embraces a populist agenda”
Didn’t he already pretend to want to pursue popular – as in majority of citizens/majority of his voters – policies? Say, in 2008? Haven’t we seen how that played out?
Why the fuck would anybody care about Obama’s promises enough for re-election, and why would anybody care enough about Obama’s re-election to advise him on how to shit the bed again?
As I said in my original post, I would be delighted to be given a lesson in the truth of that. However, the contrast in Georgia between turnout for Obama in the general election vs. turnout for Max Cleland in the Senatorial runoff was quite disillusioning. Blacks mostly stayed at home in the runoff, and let their worst enemy win: the verminous Saxby Chambliss, who campaigned against a war hero by implying that he was a traitor. Not that Cleland would have been ideal in other respects – few white Southern Democrats are – but one less Republican in the Senate would have been helpful, to say the least. And the message that would have been sent by high turnout in a non-Presidential, indeed non-general, election would have been an awesome boost to the progressive cause.
I do give credit, and heartfelt thanks, to Cornel West and any other black leaders who are willing to take a stand on the issues, and see beyond the color of Obama’s skin.
I really doubt obama has any chance of winning regardless. The problem is that that means a republican will win. And obviously that will men the country will have to wait for yet another election cycle to hope things get better with a good leader since the republicans will just continue the wars and tax cuts.
This is personally what i expect will happen. However if a good strong true liberal ran i think theyd have a serious shot at winning and then maybe maybe things might start to change. Of course the other problem is we need to get rid of almost everybody in congress and the senate to get anything done. But if we have someone truly strong then they might be able to make headway.
“for the good of the country, the soul of the Democratic Party must be saved”
What soul? What party? The loose grab-bag of people that did not want to join the Republican party officially for marketing reasons?
For the good of the country? For the good of the country, any and all incumbents should fail in their re-election bids. That would be a start.
It’s slightly counterintuitive to those of us who value truth but accuracy in publicly stated opinions will quickly result in an individual being declared persona non grata. On a related note I see where Helen Thomas is getting slammed again for having the temerity to suggest that Zionists might exert too much influence on U.S. policy.
“Challenge Obama from the Left in 2012 Not to Save His Presidency — but the Democratic Party Itself”
This isn’t even 11-dimensional chess, this is half-dimensional masturbation. Challenge Obama to win – to end his presidency. The last we need is some exercise in voluntarily embraced futility, with some pseudo-candidate withdrawing in support of the incumbent after an agree-upon interval of “competition”.
In describing the U.S. I prefer the term kleptocracy. Our leaders know they are undermining everything and the country will eventually collapse. Their goal is to allow their friends to steal as much as possible before that happens.
Immigrant Activists Regroup
http://www.thenation.com/article/156809/immigrant-activists-regroup
Yep because while Fascism now = capitalism, so anti Zionism now = anti Semitism. In this brave new world were the meaning of words is plastic and torture is “enhanced interrogation”, it’s inevitable.
The plan of Republican President Obama to dispirit, discourage and ultimately to destroy the Democratic Party is proceeding right on schedule. Obama is the biggest fraud in American political history, surpassing even Nixon’s “secret plan to end the war in Vietnam,” announced in the 1968 Presidential campaign. His war on the Vietnamese people continued until 1974, when the Democrats finally defunded it…
I usually alternate between calling it a kleptocracy which i do think is most accurate. An aristocracy and a fascist state. Then again i also no call myself a progressive but an independent bordering heavily on the progressive side due to disgust with progressives.
For example why progressives havent called for obamas impeachment is simply beyond my understanding. And why they continue to reelect such awful people like pelosi and reid and others is also beyond my understanding.
Re-electing Obama would be a disaster for progressive causes.
I’m struck by what Ian Welsh stated on Dec. 3:
It seems to me that no challenge to Obama will succeed without reaching out to these many, many low-information but potentially sympathetic voters. These are people who are suffering from Obama’s policies but don’t understand what is going on. They would be, I think, a great source of enthusiasm – if they can be reached. Right now voter inertia and ignorance are a serious problem. How can FDL work to inform and energize these people?
I do.
Carter started the ball rolling on the deregulation mania of the 80s, he injected a bunch of religion into politics, and he put us on a footing for war in the Middle East.
He was a conservative Democrat.
By no means all of them. Despite being on the far Right at the time, I voted for Anderson in 1980. I feared “Ronnie Raygun” as an irresponsible populist demagogue who might blow up the world. (I did vote for Reagan in 1984, being under the misapprehension that his first-term policies had worked – a vote I will regret for the rest of my life.) I suppose the vote for Anderson in 1980 was a foreshadowing of my future political change of heart in the late 1980s.
Citizen b202:
So the majorities of regular folks who are represented by progressive Democratic Party values and who vote for “hope’ and well articulated progressive policies and values are a “loose grab bag of people who did not want to join the Republican Party officially for marketing reasons”? Those folks who took over entire state Democratic Party caucuses in 1968 and drove a sitting President into retirement and the United States military out of a sovereign country that hadn’t attacked us…those folks were simply runnin’ with the prevailin’ wind? You citizen are unfuckin’ believable and frankly your ignorance would be frightening if I thought that it represented any significant number of citizens.
This kinda pathetic self-defeating denial of democratic politics was, however, held by a lotta folks in Weimer Germany in 1932-33 and you can see how that worked out.
The term “progressive” has been muddled to the point of losing all relevance. When self-described progressives began cheerleading to pass the Senate HCR package it became obvious that most of the time it simply describes a Dem partisan.
Corporatist, nothing.
He’s another effing Blue Dog.
Obama seems to have less of a grip on reality with every passing week – or maybe even day. He is doing things that are politically self destructive and can’t seem to stop. Why, I don’t know.
Red Dog
your talking about a run-off election?
we are talking about general election.
How many black senators does Georgia have? 0
Do you think Obama can win a national election without his liberal base? He can’t.
We all agree Obama got a lot of African Americans to vote in 2012.
What if new democratic ticket featured a hispanic? or female? same effect
run off election in Georgia, a red state that Obama did not win, I doubt any Dem could win, is not what we are talking about.
Excellent reply.
He’s Republican??
that’s called ‘cutting off your nose to spite your face’.
Right (Obama cannot win 2012).
First, Obama is a despicable lying failure and it is impossible to redeem himself in the next 2 years. This is because with the Nov elections and loss of Democratic majorities, the GAME IS OVER. No touchdown pass can work because the GAME IS OVER (the Republicans have closed the door).
I think it would be smart for blacks to distance themselves from Obama, because do you really want to be associated with such a hated piece of lying shit? The blacks are currently the only thing holding Obama above “W”‘s term end approval levels.
I would not be surprised if the corporate owned Democratic Party ran Obama as the sacrificial lamb candidate to the Republican slaughter. I believe the Demo-Rats (corporate puppets) would rather lose than have a “dangerous” leftist/progressive candidate.
But what he is doing is destroying his Presidency and any hope he might have to re-election.
Another thing about John B. Anderson: he deserves credit for the immortal phrase “smoke and mirrors” to describe Reagan’s plan for balancing the budget. According to Wikipedia, Anderson is still alive. I wonder what he must think of the irresponsible prestidigitation of Republican candidates today!
Remarkable post, I wish I had your optimism that the Democratic party can be saved from its officeholders, BT. But you have very clearly articulated the longing many of us have to see the party return to its roots, working for the worker, the woman, the disaffected, the minority, against The Owners. Once the DLC led the party into the uneasy embrace of The Owners, Democrats were doomed.
Thank you for writing this; I expect it will stand the test of time.
I find myself agreeing with NorskeFlamethrower. I guess stranger things have happened. You are spot on. That “loose grab bag” is only the liberal base of the Democratic Party, (or used to be).
Not to mention starting the ruinous arms race we’re still involved in, though who we’re racing against now is an open question…
BT and everybody:
In case you’ve missed it (and seeing no mention of it here, I’m guessing you have), a “Primary Obama/New Progressive Alliance” effort has been gathering steam at MyFDL for the past six weeks.
Roughly 150 unique commenters have nominated and/or voted in choosing a list of 10 potential challengers. The next step is voting on platform points and choosing a name for the effort. The below links, listed oldest to latest, are to diaries showing how the effort has grown, where we are now, and what’s next:
October 23: Nominating thread
November 5: Nominating thread
November 9: Last call for nominees
November 12: Nominating deadline
November 15 Pre-vote discussion
November 16: Voting thread
November 17: Intra-voting discussion
November 20: Vote results (w/ties; pre-IRV)
November 22: Vote results (with ties broken)
November 27: Platform topic/name of effort nominations
December 1: Last call for platform topic/name of effort nominations
The voting thread for platform topics and a name for our effort will go up overnight. I hope everyone here will visit it and vote at MyFDL tomorrow and Tuesday. Just look for the diary: “Vote Now On Platform Topics and To Name Our Effort!”
I’d imagine he’s as horrified as Teddy Roosevelt would be to see what’s become of his party.
Mays could do everything. Including basketball.
Agree. One thing that is needed is a big education campaign focused on “traditional Democrats,” especially those who tend to vote but then go back to ignoring politics believing that “there’s nothing more to worry about” because the Democratic candidate won.
Many citizens don’t know about the SCOTUS Citizens United case, which has forever changed the face of our electoral politics. Many citizens are completely ignorant about what Obama & the Dems are doing (or not doing as the case may be) right now. And so on.
Low information voters really need to be brought up to some level of informed awareness of reality. Not sure how to do that on a mass scale; I do what I can with folks that I know (meeting varying levels of resistance, although less so these days).
I agree with you!
I also think Blacks need to distance themselves from OBAMA. Cornel West has already attacked Obama, and I expect more Blacks to attack him.
It is almost like David Axelrod has people running around trying to discourage a primary challenge to Obama a candidate that has little to no chance of winning in 2012.
I think the elites want Obama to run, to make sure a GOP candidate wins the white house, they know the house and senate will probably go dem in 2012.
what is the democratic party, without the people that make calls, put up the signs, nothing!
True, albeit, in reality (as I’m sure you know, but many citizens don’t), the arms race is only about the Oligarchs making money via the MIC.
I actually think obama had a break down at some point. As you say he just looks out of it and like he just has no touch with reality at all. He actually looks more and more like bush every day. As well as some of these other nutcases in government who lie through their teeth for whatever reason at every chance they get.
I also think obama is just an arrogant asshole. Dont forget though we didnt really have any choice but to vote for him. Clinton ran a terrible campaign and obviously mccain was a lost cause no matter what since a republican wasnt going to get elected. So we didnt really have a choice.
The problem though is that the past ten years have shown the deomcrats to be assholes just as much as the republicans are. Its just that now they dont even bother to hide it anymore.
I don’t put much stock in campaign rhetoric (since it’s always bullshit) but I do find it striking that President Obama seems to be the polar opposite of Candidate Obama in the respect that he appears unable to see the BIG PICTURE, anywhere, any time, for any reason.
Thanks for stopping by on your way home to your bridge.
Book Salon up with Daniel Schultz’s (pastordan) Changing the Script: An Authentically Faithful and Authentically Progressive Political Theology for the 21st Century hosted by Peterr
I have experienced a number of AA’s speaking out firmly against Obama. One can tell that it pains them to do so. I cannot imagine how betrayed they must feel. My own feelings of betrayal are minimal by comparison, I’m sure, as I never particularly saw Obama as particularly liberal… yet I never expected the level of perfidy and craven selling out that he did. Must not be fun to be AA under these circumstances.
But I do see that happening, albeit some minorities will be slower to let go. Can’t blame them, but the educational process must continue, no matter how painful.
Pelosi is popular with her constituents, and actually not that bad.
…and making a Republican potus a real probability…
The Rs are already in charge but I worry about their love of war. If a R is elected, I expect an assault on Iran and that freaks me out.
Like you, I never expect a lot of campaign promises to be met, but the fact is that Obama in nearly every case simply didn’t even try. It’s one thing to witness a politician try – even if feebly – and fail. It’s quite another to realize that the politician was an abject craven venal liar who absolutely NO intention of doing 99.5% of what he/she promised. big difference. Obama isn’t weak or gutless, he’s a complete liar and a crook. Primary him from the left… it won’t be hard to find someone further to the left of Obama, who is hard right.
I want to see Obama primaried – and beaten. I sincerely doubt he would do anything differently even if challenged in the primary by progressives, because when the dust settles, and if he wins – he would be in his second term, nothing to lose, then.
Why would he listen to progressives then? If anything, there would be reprisals.
I would certainly hope any challenger would take advantage of the skillsets here and have a video of all of Obama’s lying rhetoric. Would make “read my lips” seem a pale ghost of a campaign tool.
I don’t consider those mutually exclusive characteristics. I’m inclined to suspect all of the above.
I’ve never lost sight of that. It wasn’t Obama who revived my interest in politics in 2008; it was John “my fellow prisoners” McCain. Even before that revealing slip of the tongue, I realized that his brain had been left behind in the Hanoi Hilton, where it remains to this day. In the Senate, he’s comparatively harmless, although annoying as hell. As President, he would have found a way to rationalize pushing the big red button, all the while remaining convinced at a conscious level that he was only doing his duty for his country, as a loyal soldier.
Check this out on HuffPo:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/clarence-b-jones/time-to-think-to-unthinka_b_792237.html
With all due respect Pelosi is one of the biggest liars there is and most corrupt politicians there is. She tells her support things they want to hear so they keep rellecting her. Shes liberal when its safe but when things really get serious she sells out like the rest of them. Oh and lets not forget she committed treason when she refused to impeach bush. Ya shes not that bad. Please! Oh and i guess Reid isnt that bad either.
This is why i have little interest in the dem party anymore. Tired of seeing these terrible politicians that are “not that bad” keep getting reelected over and over again and then selling the country out simply for their own greed.
I remember thinking that myself during the last election. That mccain was still back in the prison mentally emotionally spiritually. He used to stand for something. Now hes just a grumpy old man that just wants to be invited to all the good parties like everybody else. Sad really.
I was actually astonished that he got the nomination. I dont entirely remember the election that much because it was so crazy but i really thought romney or someone else would have gotten it. His campaign was on fumes and then something happened and he got the nomination.
Anyway glad to see this being discussed more and more here. While we all may have slightly different opinions on certain things i think we all are very concerned for our coountry and desparately want the momentum to be changed asap.
I would argue that the Dems didn’t run “in opposition to everything Bush.” They ran only against him personally, and against the disliked individuals in the Republican party. But upon being given near super-majority power and the presidency, they appear to have embraced nearly every single Bush/GOP policy in existence.
That was terrific and the point there is that this is also about conscience. The party once had many consciences. It seems to have lost almost all of them. One reason I distrusted Obama a bit at the beginning was his theory that ideology is over, that pragmatism is the be all and end all. You even have that a lot on sites like Kos where for so long it seemed to be all about process, frames and memes — never about heart and soul. Without the heart, soul, and conscience there is nothing left but expediency.
I believe we have a moral obligation to primary Obama and the party that has driven heart and soul out of the Democratic Party.
Fantastic! Well, this white Southerner has one thing in common with Clarence B. Jones: both of us have just reached our tipping point over support for Obama.
This is wonderful news. The more black leaders can distance themselves from Obama, and the faster they can do it, the better. As I’ve said, I would be delighted to see my concerns about stubborn black support for Obama proved groundless.
There is only one person that could primary Obama. The candidate that actually did win the Democratic nomination with the most votes, not to mention Florida and Michigan, and was denied a roll call vote at the convention because the powers got scared she might accidentally beat Obama. Alot of us knew Obama was a fake before it was cool.
Do not assume that people will vote for a bad president simply because he of his skin color.
Good for you. But a lot of us knew Hillary was a fake when she voted for the war in Iraq. I mean if I could figure out that the WMD story was a big lie sitting at my kitchen table, she had to know that it was a whopper. If any could have changed the course for war it was the Clintons. They did nothing.
As her response to Wikileaks has proved, Hillary Clinton is Dick Cheney in a pantsuit.
Normally, I have some understanding of what folks are talking about when they disagree with me. But, in this instance – not so much.
Wow.
I’m so sorry I’m too late to this thread. Haven’t read the comments yet, but just couldn’t wait to post after reading this BT post.
BT, I’ve absolutely loved your work ever since my first click at FDL. You give those asshole right wingers the hell they deserve and in a way that always leaves me smiling.
But I’ve gotta admit, I wondered whether you would ever get to the place that I, no we, needed you to get to. That place is here. Today. In this post.
Thank you. Well thought out, well argued, and as always well stated. You may even have outdone yourself, and yes that’s saying something.
And you’re dead on right about it NOT being about BHO. It’s about the Democratic Party. I’m with you on hoping to save/remake the party and this is the first necessary step. Many here would argue that horse has already left the barn, and at the end of the day they may well be right. But dammit I grew up in a union organizer’s house and have been a Democrat my whole life and I just don’t want to give up on it.
And if anyone has attended their local D meetings/functions then I’m betting they see what I see at mine. Damned decent folks, who are unapologetically progressive, or liberal, or left, or whatever label you want to apply. IMO the rank and file of the party is still where they’ve been forever, it’s just the party aparatus itself that’s moved to corporatism. I would argue that at the national level, there’s very few real D’s anymore, and none in leadership. I realize from your post the other day you’re still not there in terms of Pelosi, but this post shows you’ll get there when you’ve seen enough evidence to convince yourself. No need for me or anyone else to hurry you along. Take your time. All I ask is judge them or outcomes, results, not speeches or theater.
IMO this post is so well done and with such a known commodity on these toobz that it will reverberate (sp???) more than you know. Thank you once again for having the courage to stand for what’s right, not necessarily what’s easy.
Well done, and now off to read EGADZ!!!! 200 COMMENTS? Wow, I’m looking at the number above as I post this and it’s at 194. Did I say something about it reverberating??
Bingo, Phoenix Woman! Progressives just aren’t allowed to run candidates. When we run under the banner of third parties, it’s bad, and when we run in the Democratic primaries, it’s also bad. If by chance we break The Beltway Rules and actually win an election, it’s our responsibility to be Very Serious People and govern from the center-right.
The Carter Doctrine.
Very good post, Blue Texan! BTW, I apologize for being unnecessarily harsh to you in a pre-election thread about Rand Paul.
Thank you for the link to Clarence B. Jones (HuffPost today). His words are sincere and thoughtful. Hopefully, many will read his post.
‘Scuse me?
She didn’t have the most votes.
She didn’t win the nomination.
And she wouldn’t have won the election, either.
Absolutely spot on bmaz.
Heh, and another FDL blogger, no surprise there.
Have I ever mentioned FDL is the best site on all these toobz, bar none?
Well, it is.
Also, don’t forget her involvement in Doug Coe’s Christian theocratic fascist group The Family (and I don’t use the word “fascist” lightly). Check out pages 260 and 272-277 in Jeff Sharlet’s The Family: the secret fundamentalism at the heart of American Power (2008). Page 260 recalls Hillary’s participation in the weekly Senate Prayer Breakfast with Sam Brownback [!] and Coe. If you think we have it bad with Obama, read those pages from Sharlet’s book, and then try to imagine what Hillary Clinton’s Presidency would have been like.
I suspect he wouldn’t have held office for many months before being forced to retire because of ‘ill health’.
I agree with you but would politely ask you to reconsider the response. The message that you won’t vote for Obama needs sent, but a message that Sarah Palin (or any other Rethug for that matter) is worthy of the office of POTUS is a message that I’d rather not see received. Usually in Presidential races there are plenty of alternatives on the ballot. I would ask that you pick one of those instead. Randomly if nothing else.
I’m going to be a littler blunt here, and maybe out of line so feel free to whack away at me.
I have a lot of respect for Obama, and I’m damn glad that we finally have a black President and I look forward to the day that we have a woman President because excluding brilliant people from this job or any job because of their race or color or gender or sexual preferences is a fucking waste of talent, and we are a country starving for talent right now.
BUT, Obama is not doing the job he was elected to do which was FINALLY moving away from Reaganism and corporatism and quite frankly, the Republican way of running the country because after thirty or so years of trying it, it’s pretty freaking clear it’s a disaster.
So can we have the Congressional Black Caucus talk to Obama? These are all people I have a WORLD or respect for – many have personally been on the receiving end of almost unimaginable hate and ugly, and they have risen above it to serve their country. I don’t have to know what is said or anything, just that Obama needs a frank and blunt chat with his fellow Democrats. He has left them out dangling in the wind to take the brunt of the midterm beating in 2010 and they need to start advising him about the real ugly reality staring us in the face in 2012.
We are running out of time.
McCain in 2008 reminded me of Bob Dole in 1996. They seemed to be pretending to be someone who they weren’t, and not doing a very good job at it.
‘Treason’ is a very specific charge, defined in the Constitution. Don’t use it as a catchall term for whatever a politician does that you don’t like.
I wish she hadn’t taken impeachment off the table, but I suspect that she was threatened by the powers in the WH. (They probably demonstrated that they had all her phones tapped.)
Thanks, OFG.
What, that same old bullshit?
The country has most certainly not grown more conservative.
I’m sorry but I’ve got to question your motives when you continue to post bullshit like that, that’s easily refutable, and yet be as smart as you’ve proven yourself to be.
Are you a Democratic Party honcho? Sorry if the question is unfair, but dammit I’ve gotta wonder.
To everyone that wants to primary Obama… give me names of people who can take him on AND WIN. I can’t think of any.
Just because he didn’t give you everything he promised doesn’t mean he’s evil, or W Lite. Just because Jane is throwing verbal nukes at him doesn’t mean he’s evil.
And when Kennedy primaried Carter, didn’t Carter end up losing to Ronnie in 1980? Sure did him good to get primaried! It’s only going to splinter the Democratic base even more, and we’ll probably end up with President Sarah Palin if it goes badly.
I have to disagree. McCain didn’t run the best of campaigns and chained himself to an abysmal running mate. In September, the economic crisis really started to hurt his poll numbers. All of those factors still would have worked against him if HRC was his opponent.
During the 2008 campaign Obama stated clearly that he admired Reagan very much (I believe in an interview with a Nevada newspaper). It is no surprise that he is continuing to reflection this admiration in his actions as President.
Actually the reason i mention treason is because when that whole situation was taking place i remembering reading somewhere that she had committed treason by not starting impeachment proceedings against her. I was surprised to read this. But they explained that one of her jobs as leader was to investage crimes. WHich she refussed to do. As such she committed treason.
Also maybe if liberals stopped pussyfooting with so called liberals and put their feet to the fire maybe just maybe theyd actually do something. Making up excused and saying well theyre not THAT bad just doesnt work anymore.
Perhaps a look in that same mirror would helpp you.
Do you really support ANY President having the authority to assassinate American citizens? Do you really support ANY President being able to “disapper” anyone with the stroke of pen? Do you really support the for profit health insurance vampires to be in charge of what healthcare services are paid for?
Do you really support ALL of these things and a couple hundred more I could name? Because that’s what the Democratic Party stands for now. No, not just OBama, the party as a whole at the national level has condoned ALL of those things. Do you?
The common understanding of the word treason is: “treachery toward one’s country … or its ruler.”
And “treachery is understood as: “betrayal …”.
Being complicit in destroying the rule of law and the economic well-being of the majority of the people in this society is, clearly, a fundamental and basic act of betrayal.
However you slice it or dice it.
If this not be treason, then what, pray tell, should we term it, PJ? Consider the consequences, consider the cost, consider the future.
DW
.
Yeah, I heard him too.
Too bad Reaganism failed.
Remember how cutting taxes was going to make us all wealthy? Didn’t happen.
Remember how unfettered capitalism always trumped government support? Well, taxpayers dumped somewhere from 4.8 trillion to 23.7 trillion dollars into bailing out “capitalism” in one year after 2008. Just imagine if we had spent that money on health care or paying down the Federal debt or making SS solvent till 2100. American “capitalism” FAILED.
So doing more of it is a fucking waste of time and money which is why Obama is going to get shellacked in 2012 unless he wakes up.
Obama worse than Bush. He resurrected the GOP and threatens to destroy the Democratic Party.
I don’t think that the Congressional Black Caucus would be able to influence Obama any more than progressives have been able to. He is a Reagan conservative bluedog who despises ordinary Americans and progressives.
Name a act that Obama has taken that would back up your statement that Obama is completely pro corporate is hyperbole, please?
And IMO NOT challenging him in the primary would be a disaster for progressive causes for a generation.
He doesn’t want to wake up. He admires Republicans, conservatives, Reagan, and that whole world. He lied to us to get votes. You are right. He needs to be primaried.
I think it more likely that Obama rebuilt their party for them. He kowtowed to them so much he convinced everybody else of Republican power. He caved to them so often that Republicans looked strong and Democrats looked absolutely weak.
To repeat what I posted over in the Linda Sanchez thread:
Obama is simply not going to win the general unless our lords and masters set up Palin to take the fall.
And they have no need to do that… just as they have no more need for Obama.
But getting sidelined after gutting the New Deal was in his job description, I’m sure, so it won’t be a problem for him.
I’m certain you will, Oldgold … “bear that burden”, not because I say so … but because your conscience and history (should there ever be an honest recounting) will so decree.
We each choose our own paths, deliberately or by default …
We align ourselves, each and every one of us, with the energies we feel determine and best encourage and preserve those principles and values which matter most to us.
It would appear that we embark in different directions, time after time.
When next our paths cross, Oldgold, you shall continue to have my respect, if not my ears and attention.
Fare thee well, Oldgold.
DW
I agree. One problem is that at a national level, the party is fairly and deeply corrupt. The fight may be between coordinated state parties against the national gop and corrupt dems. If a strong progressive candidate gets nominated, needs to purge the party of the corporate lackies.
First you can’t ignore the obvious Obama is a Black Candidate
History tells us all, that Black Candidates seldom win re-election in statewide elections, and most smart black candidate keep their liberal base happy! Not Obama
So Obama is a Black Candidate with no Liberal Base, trying to win a national election, chances of him winning = 0
Any candidate that ties Obama to Alan Keyes or Clarence Thomas will hurt him with his black base, and guess what! Axelrod, Gibbs, Rahm, Jarette, have made this a very easy thing to do. Political mal-practice is an understatement.
What I am saying here, a lot of smart people in DC, and outside of DC know, OBAMA is DONE! he is not re-electable.
You are going to be surprise at the number of people that challenge OBAMA
I doubt any smart people will be donating to a candidate that has no chance of winning.
How many black senators are in congress? 0 Yes! 0
Ask Alan Keyes if black people come out in droves to vote for a black conservative? they don’t
Well, then the logical thing to do is coordinate efforts with the Congressional Black Caucus. What do they think about this?
Um, just to set the record straight, I don’t the Senate runoff in Georgia in ’08 was between Chambliss and Cleland. I could be wrong, by my memory insists that despicable campaign was lots of years before that.
Yep. Absolutely true.
I expect an attack in Iran in the next term even if it’s still Obama.
OK, you asked for one. Here it is. Bringing Elizabeth Warren onto his team.
Sure Kennedy primaried Carter, Reagan primaried Ford, and Buchanan primaried Bush (in ’92) and all those sitting presidents won the nomination but ultimately lost the general election. I’m a little rusty on history, but has there ever been a situation where the sitting president lost the nomination?
In each of those cases, it was a symptom that the base was not happy. 2012 will be no different but we need someone other than Obama to represent the Democratic Party. I’ll be ready to see someone from the left oppose him and beat him, because even if Obama should win against Palin or whomever, there won’t be much to celebrate.
In this the TV age, just being a great choice for a run at Obama in 2012, isn’t enough. The person would have to be camera friendly. It is a shame that it is so geared to the handsome or the pretty, but any more it is a fact of life. Except for Mitt Romney…LOL I forgot the pretty and the handsome need to also have a brain worth mentioning. But let’s keep looking. I had tears when Obama won the election. I now have them because he did…
Really?
Just unbelievable.
Sorry about that, you’re right. The race between Cleland and Chambliss was 2002, when Chambliss committed the shameless smear that his fellow Republican Chuck Hagel (Senator from Nebraska) described as “beyond offensive”. In 2008, Chambliss’s Democratic opponent was Jim Martin, not Cleland – but the smear against Cleland six years earlier was a campaign issue. According to Wikipedia, the November 2008 general election (with Obama-driven high turnout) was very close: 49.8% for Chambliss, 46.8% for Martin, and 3.4% for Libertarian Allen Buckley. In the December 2008 runoff, Chambliss defeated Martin 57.5% to 42.5%.
Next term? How about next two years?
Because the left is abandoning him, Obama’s only course is triangulation.
This is another reason Obama is going to compromise on the taxes. He knows the economy must be doing well for him to have any chance of re-election. Raising taxes is going to make that more difficult, so he’s going to compromise to save his skin.
He’s not willing to go down for a principle.
Oddly, he’s just about put himself in a no-win position.
The Chambliss-Cleland race was in 2002. Chambliss missed out on the draft because of five student deferments and a knee injury from playing football, while Cleland lost both legs in Vietnam.
In 2008, the runoff was between Chambliss and Jim Martin.
Yeah, and NOT putting her in charge of the agency for consumers PRECISELY BECAUSE the Wall St. corps didn’t want her in charge of that agency.
You’re going to have to do better than that, I’m afraid. That’s just another example of how he DID cave to corps.
oldgold
what you got to understand is this simple fact.
no black dem candidate can win a state wide election, without a liberal base, do you think a black candidate like Obama can win a national race? No
not going to happen
Palin will at best be on the tea party ticket
any one running against Obama will have 80% chance of winning or better.
ask Alan Keyes conservative Black candidates don’t win! national elections
how many college kids , and progressives are going to stay up all night helping Obama get elected in 2012? the thrill is GONE
Obama needs FDL type of progressives to win in 2012, he knows this, Axelrod know this, this is not rocket science, without hardcore liberals Obama loses! Period
Yes, really. Getting kicked in the shins may be better than getting kicked in the nads, but it’s still no picnic!
I have lost all respect for Obama. But he is still fooling many people with his two-faced behavior. Defeating him involves more than just the Congressional Black Caucus. All voters need to be better informed about Obama and anyone else who runs for office. How to do reach out and keep people informed needs to be discussed or primary attempts won’t work. I wish I had an answer.
He’s evil because he’s evil.
The point isn’t necessarily to defeat him. It’s to establish the principle that, when our Democratic leaders betray us, we fight.
The strategy of the past few elections, “elect more and better Democrats,” has been a complete and utter failure. We fight for what we believe in, or we will be slowly but inevitably crushed. With Obama’s expansions of presidential powers, he’s essentially building the prisons that Palin will throw us into.
Obama is a very easy candidate to primary people!
Obama is candidate without a base.
Once any candidate start running against Obama they will have a lot of ways to hurt him politically.
look at the list below:
1st Obama endorses the Bush agenda of spying on and killing americans
2nd Obama attacks Unions (the F! the UAW moment screams republican)
3rd Obama double downs on Bush Wars, (now they are Obama wars)
4th Obama attacks Teacher Unions (teacher unions now hate OBAMA)
5th Obama does not attack the Banks? he bails them out? (sorta like what the GOP does)
6th Obama passes the Bob Dole Health Care Bill (Bob Dole is a republican)
7th Obama kills the Public Option
8Th Obama kills Drug Importation
9Th Obama APPOINTS an insurance executive to manage his health care Bill
10th Obama does not APPOINT Dawn Johnsen
11th Obama hand picks the cat food commission to destroy Social Security
12th Obama supports Blanche Lincoln, a candidate who hates Unions, and has no chance of winning
13 Guantanomo still open for business
14.Patriot Act renewed
15. renditions continue
16. Bernanke reappointed
17. Americans targeted for assassination
18 Obama is all for sending more USA jobs off shore
19 Obama is for tax cuts for the RICH!
20. Obama and the TSA porno Scandal
21 Obama freezes federal wages for 2 years
Axelrod, Gibbs, Jarette, made a huge mistake making OBAMA a conservative! Obama can’t do a CLINTON, he never could do a Clinton.
Soon as the primary starts, Obama low poll numbers will drop faster. What is Obama going to do or say? I was for the Public Option, before I was against
I was against war, before I was for more War.
Obama is done!
Democrats have no choice but to primary OBAMA. Or we can save a lot of money and just give it to the GOP, because No GOP candidate fears running against OBAMA.
Our progressive leadership has had a plan, it’s called “Elect More and Better Democrats.” It was in full bloom during the 2004 and 2008 elections, and its crowning triumph has been the election of Barack Obama with solid Democratic congressional majorities. That plan is now dead. Oh? Its last gasp occurred during last winter’s healthcare fight. As the — even originally — horribly flawed bill was drawn and quartered almost daily — Stupak added, public option brutally killed in its crib, House progressives under Grijalva caving in one by one until even Dennis Kucinich went down like Davy Crockett at the Alamo — the almost universal progressive refrain was, “We have to pass it, we can improve it later.” This was a manifestation of More and Better Democrats. If 59 Democrats wasn’t enough, we’d elect more and more every election until we had the 80 needed to pass something meaningful.
So how do we know that More and Better (in every way every day) is dead? We haven’t heard a single peep about how the Democrats have to win this November so we can improve the healthcare legislation. Instead, the battle cry is, “Let’s unite to keep Obama from getting impeached!” Sorry, I’m not inspired by that. We are seeing the Democratic Party implode. It is traditional for the Dems to make some pathetic gestures to their left right before an election to boost their GOTV, fire (warm) up their base a little. We’re not even seeing cold toast. Candidates are running away from Obama, mainly running to the right, as he fails to act on DADT, says no to a moratorium on foreclosures, stays the course in Afghanistan, sets up progressives for the coming debacle, etc. You know, the whole boring litany.
So again, the outcome of a Dump Obama movement is unclear. But the crux of the matter is that it’s a fighting plan, provides a rallying point for progressives. It does not preclude going 3rd party in the general election, does not define itself in opposition to those who reject the Democratic Party and elections completely. It will attract revolutionaries, and it will attract the most foul opportunists — that’s the mix you get from a sinking ship. So be it.
why is the dem. party worth saving? isn’t he just the culmination of all the triangulation and capitulation policy they’ve been executing (but maybe not speaking about in public) for two or more decades?
vote 3rd party
I would pressure Obama not to run in 2012. Certainly, a primary challenge would work toward this goal but to Save the Party the best thing would be for Obama to step aside and he needs to do this sooner than later.
OK, I will give you one you can’t twist to fit your confirmation bias.
He vetoed the Interstate Notary Act.
Yes he did. Very quietly after the news of the bill actually got out into the public.
Do you really think he would have vetoed it otherwise?
I just finished watching the ABC Evening News and to listen to these imbeciles tell it, poor Obama was left cowering in a corner, as the GOP leaned over him with a pistol pointed at his head. The ONLY way to get unemployment extended was to capitulate on tax cuts. Then, there was the TOTAL villification of Wikileaks and Julian Assange. Ya’ know, Osama wasn’t such a bad guy compared to this “traitor”. My point is, that a 3rd party will never suceed as it’s message of “truth” will never be diseminated widely enough to make a difference. Keith, Rachel, Jenk, etc. will not be enough the turn the tide of information against the mendacity of Fox or the fecklessness of the rest of the MSM. So sit back, relax and enjoy, as best you can, the ride to the bottom. Remember, it’s not the fall that kills you; it’s the sudden stop.
We are beyond the Primary Option, we must encourage the Cabinet to remove Obama per 25th Amendment, Sec 4, or encourage Obama not to run. The only thing Obama can say to me is “I will not run, and if nominated, I will not accept…” If not, the next Democratic Ass-wipe may try same crap.
OK, he’s not 100% corporate.
It took you two tries to come up with ONE example.
I could list 50 here, right now, of acts that prove he is a corporatist, starting with the one you tried at first. We could compare lists and come up with a percentage, and if that percentage is over 90% I would argue in practice that makes him a total corporatist.
Are you arguing the technicality that if it’s not 100% it’s not total or are you arguing that he’s so far from supporting corps all the time that even practically speaking he’s not a total corporatist?
Just wondering if your comment was a nitpick or a real argument that Obama is not a corporatist when you claimed calling him a total corporatist was hyperbole.
Because honestly OldGold, I’d bet we’d both agree George W. Bush was a total corporatist (practically speaking) yet I could probably find at least one or two examples otherwise even for him. Just not sure what point you’re trying to make, is all.
Oh, and BTW, you really should think hard about accusing others of “confirmation bias.” At least if you’ve ever read your own posts, you should think long and hard about it.
Because you’ve exhibited such bias in the face of all the evidence numerous times, my friend.
I agree that Obama, given his record in office, should be someone who could be primaried. But how many voters are aware of the items on your list? How many care? It has taken two years for well-informed people like Paul Krugman to throw in the towel (see his blog Saturday “… incredible shrinking president…”). I guess I am asking just how to go about waking people up. Many who voted in 2008 were young people who frequently don’t vote. Many were hopeful, like me, and are now disgusted. Many are not sure whether he is a real blue-dog conservative, or a liar, or a very weak man. And many are interested but don’t keep up with the legal, legislative, and other issues that we here discuss all the time. You have ideas. I am looking for ways to find a better candidate. At least we are talking.
Obama gives us best chance to take back the dem party, from the trojan horses
Obama is un-electable, so he is a prime primary target
maybe Obama can run as a 3rd party candidate
you don’t let crooks stay in your house, you kick them out.
I spend a lot of time with corporatists. They think Obama is a socialist. They can’t understand why I do not condemn him.
Here, I read that Obama is a corporatist. Folks here can’t understand why
I don’t condemn him.
I think he is a slightly left of center pragmatist, who is less than an enthusiastic about political combat. On several matters, like the size of the stimulus or Afghanistan, I have been very critical of him. But, given the circumstances and alternatives, for now, I will stay on board.
revisionism. Carter lost because of Iran.
The Democratic Party is beyond redemption. Your time and efforts would be better spent forming a third party and hastening the day when the Democratic donkey follows the wooly mammoth, the giant sloth, and the saber-toothed cat into extinction.
One of the main problems the left faces is they’re all over the place on issues. I’m sorry, but let’s forget about the social issues. People who are sincerely interested in those already have a party to embrace, and the average citizen with the short memory doesn’t want to have to think about them.
What Obama’s challenger – willing candidate having been found – has to run on is an issue that resonates with everyone: MONEY! If it ain’t economic, ignore it!
Let’s campaign on money – money in the form of jobs, lost through offshoring and gained by creating them, money in the form of fair taxes, money in the form of preserving AND expanding social security. Emphasize how billions are pissed away down the rathole of Afganistan. Emphasize the disparity of income in this country.
Don’t be too polite, or too wonky. Study old newsreels of how “the Kingfish” did it. Don’t be afraid to bloviate. Don’t be afraid to rant against the banks and the federal reserve. They suck anyway, and they’re tailor-made villains.
Then, when our challenger loses at the convention, form the New Populist Party. That will be our rallying point in all future elections. “Every Man a King”? Well, how about “A Fair Break for Every Citizen”? The corporate Democrat fatcats won’t be able afford to ignore us then.
the democratic party is not the problem
the problem is the trojan horses that have been place in the dem. party
remember Obama lied his way to the WH, so this says it all, it is not like in 2008 democrats wanted to elect another Bush.
Obama gives progressives the perfect opportunity to take back the Dem party from the trojan horses.
Obama is un-electable, so attacking him on left, really does not hurt anything.
What a crock of shit. You really do have an agenda, of that I have no doubt now. You’re smart enough to know that if you wanted to paint corporatism as the middle then of course they’d claim he’s a socialist. It’s part of the propaganda, and you’re too smart to use propaganda as a tool unless you too are part of that propaganda.
Birthers claim he was born in Kenya and we claim he was born in Hawaii. So obviously the reality is that he was born at the point of the globe midway between the two. After all, that’s the same argument you’re trying to make when you say because the right calls him a socialist and the left calls him a corporatist the reality must be that he’s a center left pragmatist. Which is utter bullshit.
Oh well, we got along for awhile at least.
All of you are worried about the obvious when comes to groups. First you have to frame what OBAMA has not done when it comes to foreign and domestic policies period. It also true he has thrown his base under the bus numerous time and we have to remind him of what he has done on a continous basis. At the same time we have make sure that 13 million or so supporter are not supporting him any longer. The coalition you formulate must be relentless and unforgiven. The REP say whatever they want about OBAMA he remains silent I had a plan and offered to JANE HAMISHER she ignored it completely. In addtion lot of money will be needed and it can be raised,but it must be use wisely. I like Howard DEAN idea of a fifty state stragety and we pick the canidates. I also think the sooner we get started the better. I want us to be the ones who pick the canidates. By the way think of us like the teaparty as a movement except we are not bought by anybody. It going to take planning,money and a willigness to face all opposition from both parties period.
I’m extremely pleased to see here on FDL that a primary run is seriously being floated. There is no chance that I would vote for Obama after what I’ve seen. No chance at all. And I know that I’m am not lonely with that sentiment. I would absolutely love to have a viable candidate running against him in a primary that I could feel some enthusiasm and confidence about. Let’s get this the hell on!
D E A N
because you can’t spell dependable without D E A N
If you doubt corporatists think Obama is a socialist, then you haven’t spent any time with them. The amount of antipathy they have for him is really shocking.
As far as advancing an agenda, this would be a hell of a venue for doing that, wouldn’t it? Any day now, I expect to turn Fuckno and Jedimsnbcko 19 into Obamabots.
It seems to me that most of the arguements on this site miss the real heart of the problem. Obama and the democrats represents the userous Authoritarian Capitalist system that controls all politics in Amerika. I doubt that electing any, good democrat if you can find one, will make any difference.
Until people are willing to reject the system, Capitalism, that pulls the strings that animates these pawns nothing will change.
There’s lots of people that genuinely believe in an invisible being up in the sky that’s watching their every move too. That doesn’t make the reality somewhere in between there is a God or there is no God.
When did ending all habeas corpus rights and assassinating American citizens with no due process become “left of center, pragmatic” by the way.
You can defend and support this President all you want, but when you do you own those policies too. Either assassinating American citizens without due process IS right, or it’s NOT. THere’s no pragmatic center. Either habeas corpus IS a right, or it’s NOT. No center there either. And the Democrat’s in Congress have some checks and balances powers granted to them by the Constitution, so when they CHOOSE not to use those powers to block something that is wrong, then they are by that choice endorsing it.
That’s the Democratic Party that you’re so proud to defend here. The day that Party is described as Center/left is the day that anything right of center is fantasy, as it’s unobtainable.
And if you’re going to argue the alternative is worse, then that means as long as the D party is one inch left of the R party, no matter how bad that is, that they deserve support. If the D’s supported genocide against one group and the R’s supported genocide against two groups, then by that justification we should all support the D’s and the genocide of one group.
Good luck always defending that, and I hope you’re paid well to do so, because I couldn’t do it no matter the pay.
Kitt, some of us at FDL have been working on this since early September. We’ve had a process for choosing prospective candidates:
http://my.firedoglake.com/themalcontent/2010/11/22/with-runoffs-complete-its-grayson-4th-hamsher-10th/
and I’ve written a whole series on the ins and outs of building a Dump Obama movement. Check ‘em out, as I see that today we’re re-covering a lot of ground we’ve spent a lot of work hashing out.
http://my.firedoglake.com/jeffroby/2010/09/11/time-for-a-dump-obama-movement/
Time for a Dump Obama movement
http://my.firedoglake.com/jeffroby/2010/09/22/dump-obama-%C2%A0-more-urgent-than-ever/
Dump Obama: more urgent than ever
http://my.firedoglake.com/jeffroby/2010/10/09/dump-obama-working-today/
Dump Obama: working today
http://my.firedoglake.com/jeffroby/2010/10/16/dump-obama-for-a-time-of-crisis/
Dump Obama: for a time of crisis
http://my.firedoglake.com/jeffroby/2010/10/23/dump-obama-time-for-a-candidate/
Dump Obama: time for a candidate
http://my.firedoglake.com/jeffroby/2010/10/30/dump-obama-not-for-wackos-only/
Dump Obama: not for wackos only
http://my.firedoglake.com/jeffroby/2010/11/06/dump-obama-the-feeding-frenzy-begins/
Dump Obama: feeding frenzy begins
Which does not mean we aren’t looking for new ideas and new input. Welcome!
How can you refer to a “Republican health insurance bill” when there would have been no such thing if the Republicans had been in power? As disappointing as Obama’s is, it is something and it distinguishes Democrats from Republicans.
I would rather see a Republican president than a re-election of Obama. If, somehow, we could have enough Democrats in office, not Blue Dog Demos, but half-way decent Democrats, we can just hold things up and at least some time will pass for them to get on a different rag than gutting Social Security and they will accomplish nothing AND WE WOULD BE SAFER. This will open the door for a new Democrat to come in and maybe this time someone with a backbone!! I feel if this Obama gets four more years we are going to be wiped out. I will NOT vote for him again. I am and always have been a Democrat not extremely left but reasonable and open-minded, but this guy is a plant for the Repubs or has been handed extremely large payoffs, easily bought off, just plain spineless. OUT with him. He got what he wanted, first African American Prez, Nobel Peace Prize (for what??), “reform??” of healthcare (yes, if you change the punctuation on a sentence you can say “reform”, he has skirted and failed on EVERYTHING. No way am I voting for THIS!
Good Joke! I hope
you do know, the Obama health care bill is a carbon copy of the Bob Dole Health Care Bill.
Yes, and when it pass health care stock went up! not down, so one can only assume that the Obama health care bill benefited health insurance companies more than health consumers
no real democratic candidate really brag about Obamacare during the 2010 mid-terms, me think this was a GOP bill
Sorry, but I say crap. This is not 1980. Obama is not Carter; in fact, he is far worse than Carter. The DLC did not exist in 1980, and Obama is a total DLCer. It’s about time progressives who voted for Obama admit that they were suckered by a total fraud. Hell, Obama is even worse than Bill Clinton. Obama is, for all intents and purposes, a Republican. I admit it. I got fooled. Once.
The Democratic Party I once knew no longer exists. What the Democratic Party has become is a perverse corporatist creature. It must be destroyed. There is no point in primarying Obama. There is a point in not voting for Obama-like Democrats. Let them fall. Let the Republicans take over and run the country into the ground. They will do no worse than Obama and most of the Democrats. It’s time to embrace the horror.
It’s time to start a new movement, a combination of anyone anti-corporatist, be they Democrat, Republican, Green, independent, Libertarian or Socialist. The current system is unsustainable. It’s collapse is inevitable. The only question that remains is “what next?”
I don’t know. But the answer is not the Democratic Party. I hope progressives provide the answer, for if we don’t someone else will.
Nice illusion. What are you smoking, and where can I get some?
You think Obama is slightly left of center? — ModNote: While we encourage rigorous conversation, personal insults are discouraged–
Only because it went public. He’ll sign the second incarnation if it slips through quietly. As he would have the first. Obama is a fascist. Get over it.
you statement says it best, Obama lied, to get elected
this means progressives still dominate the base of the dem party
it not everyday you get to primary a candidate like Obama! Obama has no chance of winning the WH in 2012.
Obama, Rahm Axelrod, Gibbs, need to start a 3rd party, not us
it is time progressive do some house cleaning.
Rant on. For some it is therapeutic.
Agreed – now who is going to run? How’s about Joe Sestak? He’s son to be unemployed.
How? Obama has betrayed the left on almost every issue. He has betrayed African-Americans on EVERY issue. Matter of fact, he’s not really culturally African-American at all. His father was an African who was never much more to him than a whisper in the darkness. Culturally, Obama is as white as I am. And I could join the Sons of Confederate Veterans if I so choose. I, a descendant of slaveowners, have more in common with most African-Americans than Obama does. Come see me in my neighborhood, and I’ll prove it to you.
As for “Blacks” as you put it, being the base of the Democratic Party, I find that an offensive and racist remark. You are obviously a DLC hack trying to manipulate African-Americans into voting for your particular wing of the corporatist Republicratic Party. The Democratic Party of my parents is dead, killed by DLCers like you. You are just an illusionist playing with smoke and mirrors as our world falls apart.
LOL, that’s the best you can do?
I don’t blame you, I wouldn’t try and defend those policies either.
Wear them all proudly OG. They’re yours.
Uh, Obama called it that–he’s compared it favorably several times to Romney’s bill in Mass.
It’s also very close to the one Dole proposed in the 90s.
Are we having fun, yet?
The DIm Party bosses won’t allow a primary challenge, where do you think obama gets his support????? 3rd party ……..
the democratic party currently has a sitting president that has no chance of winning in 2012
black candidates that lose their liberal base don’t win state races, so we know OBAMA has no chance of winning a national race.
how much money are you going to give to a losing cause.
democrats better face the music and primary OBAMA
this was all cause by Obama stupid political team trying to make a black candidate a conservative/neo-liberal or Obama thinking he could be Clarence THomas and win in 2012?
ask alan keyes how many conservative black candidate win national races? 0
this is all common knowledge
how many black senators are their in DC? ummmmm? none
There’s only really a few people who we know — today — could mount competent primary challenges. Dean is the strongest bet, if we can get him to do it. At least he could really unite the netroots and activist base against Obama, and run a helluva grassroots campaign. After that, it gets a little stickier. Feingold is probably next on my list in ‘most likely to put up a strong fight.’ Kucinich is a nonstarter. Alan Grayson would certainly have the cajones to do it, but I think the party would too easily paint him as a caricature and make him appear to be a little too ‘out there’ to be in office… and I’m afraid even Sarah Palin could beat him in a general (Kucinich, too).
My dream would be for Al Gore to wake up and realize his country’s need for him… but I think that’s a nonstarter.
Others like Sherrod Brown, etc., would all be good picks… but I just don’t see it happening.
Well, let us all get use to saying President Sarah, Romney, Newt, etc.
because OBAMA has no chance of winning a general election without his liberal base.
By the way a lot of people want to be USA president. :) Someone is going challenge Obama and win with ease!!!
Obama has no base of support what so ever. this is laughable. If I was Obama, I would expect a primary challenge and he should expect to lose.
Axelrod, Gibbs, made a huge mistake making OBAMA, look like ALAN KEYES! what a huge mistake.
Obama had one month after the election to become a Democrat again. He failed again. It’s over for Obama and the Democratic party. I’m a former Democrat and a supporter of Obama. It’s game, set, and match.
Oldgold’s comment @ 224 was very interesting.
Imagine my surprise to find it disappeared when I returned to consider it a second time.
These are the puzzles that tickle the funnybone of conjecture.
Adding spice and much-appreciated intrigue to the humdrum certainty that America’s future, from moment to moment, is highly predictable … being bound, apparently, to get worser and worser.
My best, then, to the deities, known and unknown (leastwise to me) who dance with the electrons, share wisdom with the sages, and practice patience beyond compare … most of the time.
;~DW
Wonder no more. I removed it. Moments after typing it, I read it and decided it was not what I wanted to say.
~~~Thank you for confirming, oldgold.~~~
Appreciations to both of you, Oldgold and Lurking Mod, confirming my “suspicions” and allaying my concern that Oldgold might be … disappearing.
All is good.
;~DW
The issue IS getting rid of Obama without having to replace him with another Republican.
Obama is to the Economy the exact same thing as Bush was to the US Constitution and deficit spending, along with a war of convenience. Obama is for the rich and he has back-doored us time and time again in favor of the rich or in disfavor of the US Constitution. He has been little better than Bush except we don’t water-board. We just do all the other torturous things we are not suppose to do.
I want to vote in 2012. In order for me to do that Obama MUST BE defeated in the primaries. So, what the heck are we waiting for. Obama is not going to do anything for the Democrats. Obama fights with himself and lets the Republican side win! I am tired of an Oligarchy being our “Representative Republic!” And I am not going to take it anymore!
Yes! Some of us have been advocating this for a while, only partially tongue-in-cheek. Run Obama 2.007 against President Obama, as a “Max Headroom”-type candidate. Much cheaper than a live candidate, our virtual candidate would have low overhead, would not need Secret Service protection, can make speeches and stops wherever there’s a TV screen…
The reasons you cited are why I am no longer a registered Democrat after 42 years and why I will not vote for another Democrat unless/until one with principles stands up.
Obama himself is now giving the sleepers a fresh dose of smelling salts on an almost daily basis, and apparently the rate of new shocks continues to increase. Caving on tax cuts for the rich; renewed calls for bipartisanship and compromise after the midterms; the wage freeze; apologizing to the Republicans for partisanship; and now the Korean sellout. It was only recently that I came around myself.
Don’t give up.