No sister sarah, torture and the attendant cover-up is the real treason.

Lying about weapons of mass destruction to start a war is treason.

Telling the truth, not so much.

Sarah Palin utters nonsense for third time in an hour. Quick, better blog about it!

Princess Dumbass makes another weighty pronouncement via Twitter.

Will someone please tell this (Edited by Moderator: your terminology is 100% disallowed at FDL.)to STFU and go away?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA … (pause for breath) … HAHAHAHAHAHA

I wouldn’t hire this pathetic woman to operate a checkout at the grocery store (no offence intended to checkout workers), much less be Leader of the Free World. Isn’t her 15 minutes up, yet?

I suspect that the Quitter’s Twitters are ghost-written as well as her books. Do you really think she knows the word “Inexplicable”?

Wouldn’t it be funny if the person at the Pentagon who is leaking the info accidentally switches his memory devices and inadvertently passes one to Assange with the meaty Cheney/Rumsfeld dirt.

I’m thankful (yes, I do that from time to time, even if it’s not the holiday) that Sarah keeps opening her pie hole, no, I mean, halibut hole, I mean her diarrhea hole. The reason is, this is all documentation that Others will use against her when she launches her official run for the Preznit Spot.

I wouldn’t be laughing. I’d be on my knees giving thanks! You betcha.
Grateful is always better in my world.

May be we will find out her source for North Korea being our ally is in these documents and she will be embarrassed.

On second thought, nothing would embarrass person.

Of all the people I’ve observed or helped up here in Wasilla, who have been writing about or covering Palin, it isn’t Geoffrey Dunn or Joe McGinniss or some of the others that will probably catch Palin’s essence best. It is Nick Broomfield, who is working very hard on his Palin film. I hope he ends up covering Mooselini like he covered Il Duce. They have more in common than somewhat related names.

I keep asking: Are we supposed to care?

It wouldn’t be a moment for either humor or gratitude, when the facts become irrefutable of what the government was capable of doing to its own people.

the Main Stream Media needs an idiot to keep intelligent ideas out of the main stream.

Sarah Palin is the village idiot, this is her purpose, to keep as many americans as possible as dumb as possible via her puppet masters in New York.

Chris Matthews just call Sarah Palin a political power house like Bill Clinton

I object to giving the Quitter’s tweets any attention.

Except that as humans we sometimes react. I’m sure you are human too. So, instead of being silly. Be a human. :)

Both parties sound like that musical comedy song, “Anything I can do, you can do worse.”

She should go away to North Korea, which has all kind of treaties with the US, I hear. I’m sure they will help her STFU.

Chris Matthews just call Sarah Palin a political power house like Bill Clinton

If Tweety loves the Tweeter so much, he can have her. She’s got zero chance of becoming president.

I refudiate her!

Thanks, BT, for your constant monitoring of Teh Stoopit.

Missed ya yesterday.

Tweety wants to fuck her, that’s all.

You may object, but, baby, you are a part of this thread, so you are. Just saying.

Very cute.

I got banned without warning from the Huffington Post for a comment arguing that Sarah Palin is, in the precise and technical medical sense, a sociopath – a conclusion of which I remain absolutely convinced, and for which I laid out systematic evidence, much of it reported in the Huffington Post itself, correlated with the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder (their term for sociopathy). One example:

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2008/10/12/palin_booed

If you give rational counter-arguments to anything Palin says, you’re taking her comments much more seriously than she does herself. That’s how we get “North Korean allies” and the like. She simply doesn’t care in the least about the truthfulness, or otherwise, of anything she says.

Incidentally, this is also why I remain convinced that any blanket ban on so-called personal attacks in political discourse is wrong. In politics, the character of the people involved is absolutely relevant to the policy questions.

Palin worries me not because of any direct malevolent power on her part – she’s too stupid for that – but because of what her popularity says about the judgment and perception of the American people. There are far too many out there – and by no means all of them are Tea Partiers – who cannot tell a crude, blatant sociopath when she is staring them in the face.

Hey, there. Busy laying tiles at the shop. Gonna open the espresso bar in January, so my weekends between now and then are shot. Read your post, but missed the chat.

Are we talking about someone? What? Ha!
Hiya, Ted.
Yes, I can, yes I Can, yes I CAN!

Like it or not, this woman is going to make a bid for the office of POTUS over the next two years. A serious bid. There are a large number of people willing to vote for her. I think she warrants coverage.

Why, can you tell me, that folks love to come here and share with us that they’ve been censored, modded, banned at other sites. Tell me, tell me true. I want to know.

It’s all about plugging her book. If the sentence includes the title, all the rest is inconsequential. Oh, and a day in court. That’s really impressive. Opportunity to dress up and pulls some shapes.

I just wanna know if she wears panties?

Cool. They gonna hire a few more workers?

Absolutely. She is too dangerous to ignore.

Hopefully she does, if she comes to an end like the mistress of Il Duce.

I can’t answer for anyone, but having been labeled a troll by a certain group of diarists here at the Lake (Ha!), I can say with conviction that it is easy to get one’s dander up about those sorts of things.

in the precise and technical medical sense, a sociopath

She may loosely fit the general definition of a sociopath, or exhibit some sociopathic behavior, but she is probably not a true sociopath. There are very, very few documented sociopaths.

Palin worries me not because of any direct malevolent power on her part – she’s too stupid for that – but because of what her popularity says about the judgment and perception of the American people. There are far too many out there – and by no means all of them are Tea Partiers – who cannot tell a crude, blatant sociopath circus clown when she is staring them in the face.

This is what worries me as well, and I think the main issue with Palin. Not her, per se, but the fact that there can be a “her”. Why is there any room in the American political discourse for such a slack-jawed yokel?

I spit coffee all down the front of my shirt. Luckily, I keep a fresh one here at the office. Otherwise I’d have a resentment against you, sir.

Bravo.

Fair deuce.

Hopefully, but not for several months. Gotta build up the customer base first. It’s exciting to be so close…we got delayed for 5 months with the planning department over a few lousy parking spaces. Darn gummint.

Do you think there’s something wrong with mentioning that we’ve been banned at other sites?

You were banned from the tabloid blog….you lucky devil.

Yes, I hear you. But, isn’t it the nature of human bloggers? That’s been my experience, anyway.
Sad. But, when a person who is not in the upper echalon voices a personal opinion that is outside of the groupthing, they get jumped on. Nature of the way things are. Sad. Again.

I agree. One thing I fear out of all this is that she will cause a rift in the party (maybe even at the convention) between the ultra-wingnut faction (her), and the regular wingnut faction (like Romney, maybe). When they can’t come to an agreement, Jeb Bush will waltz in as the mediator, promise to throw them post-election bones (cabinet posts, or the like) and then become the candidate himself. I’m not saying that this is how it will go down, but I am saying that it’s one of several plausible scenarios.

I just made myself throw up in my mouth…

Shouldn’t Palin be in one of those FEMA concentration camps by now?

I spit coffee all down the front of my shirt. Luckily, I keep a fresh one here at the office.

Nothing like a fresh cup of coffee.

What’s the purpose, love? Unless someone wants/needs kudos for that here?

One of those FEMA trailers with extra formaldehyde and asbestos, maybe? I hear they’re cheap…

I appreciate hearing voices that are outside of the groupthink, as long as the ideas are stated respectfully. Groupthink is one of the biggest problems on the tubes, IMO.

My bad. See # 40. It’s all good. Silliness, if you ask me.

She may loosely fit the general definition of a sociopath, or exhibit some sociopathic behavior, but she is probably not a true sociopath. There are very, very few documented sociopaths.

This is a common but serious misconception. Estimates I’ve seen for the percentage of sociopaths in the general population range from 1% to as high as 4%. It is the most common serious mental disorder (assuming one believes it to be a disorder at all, as opposed to an evolutionary adaptation). An entire chapter in Hervey Cleckley’s classic work on sociopaths, The mask of sanity, is devoted to debunking the rarity myth; its title is “Not as single spies but in battalions”.

This is what worries me as well, and I think the main issue with Palin. Not her, per se, but the fact that there can be a “her”.

I’m glad we can agree on that part, at least. But I would add that the fact that sociopaths are not rare makes the issue even more serious.

Right f’king on. I agree. I’m I sometimes tire of it. But, yet. Here I am.

Touche.

Yelp. the bushes are like herpes you can treat the outbreak but not remove the underlining disease.

I hope when they start the impeachment hearings Michelle slaps some sense into CIC and he goes after the treasonous torturers.

If that’s the sort of bloodbath simpson is talking about, bring it on baby.

I’m particularly fond of new ideas that are based on reality rather than on ideology.

the bushes are like herpes you can treat the outbreak but not remove the underlining disease

*snort*

I, for one, would love to read what you wrote at HuffPo. Do you have a copy you could post as a diary here?

Unfortunately, I think Michelle has given up on him just like the rest of us already have. Her only concern now is to get the kids of of Dodge before it’s too late.

This is a common but serious misconception. Estimates I’ve seen for the percentage of sociopaths in the general population range from 1% to as high as 4%. It is the most common serious mental disorder (assuming one believes it to be a disorder at all, as opposed to an evolutionary adaptation). An entire chapter in Hervey Cleckley’s classic work on sociopaths, The mask of sanity, is devoted to debunking the rarity myth; its title is “Not as single spies but in battalions”.

Cleckley assumes there are varying degrees of sociopathy. When I speak of true sociopaths, I mean people devoid of conscience, lacking any ability to form meaningful bonds with other people.

If you go by the current DSM definitions, Sarah Palin has Antisocial Personality Disorder or Psychopathy

An excerpt from Psychopathy…

Psychopaths also have a markedly distorted sense of the potential consequences of their actions, not only for others, but also for themselves. They do not deeply recognize the risk of being caught, disbelieved or injured as a result of their behaviour

Demi, I think it is to confirm how rarely FDL bans or censors anyone (except for advocating violence, of course). It seems that folks get banned for a lot of reasons at HuffPo and a few other sites with thin skinned hosts.

There’s nothing new under the sun, baby.
Someone said that. Someone famous. :)
What I was trying to point out is, are we here merely to lift up people who speak out and get slammed down elsewhere? Maybe we are. But, I’d rather not have to point out the obvious, every. Single. Time. But, I guess, whatever it takes. But, the me, me, me runs tedious and cold for me.

I’m part of this thread to raise my objection. Palin’s tweets aren’t worthy of FDL.

In my opinion, FDL gets seriously into groupthink sometimes. Not often, but sometimes…

Absolutely. She is too dangerous to ignore.

I respectfully disagree. Ignoring her is exactly what should be done, by Firedogs and by all concerned progressives and liberals and by anyone who’s sick of the circus.

We shower her with attention. Her followers shower her with money.

She’s more interested in us speculating about her running in 2 years than in running. And, if she runs, she’s got zero chance of winning. She’d be the Christine O’Donnell of 2012, and Rove knows it.

I don’t post on other blogs, so I’ll take your word for it.

If Obama tweeted during 2007, that was worthy of FDL, right? Or when McCain tweeted?

She’s going to run for President. Fer real. We need to pay attention to her, as shitty and painful as it is.

I hear you. Wasn’t trying to put you down. Sorry if if seemed that way.

IMVHO, Blue Texan has provided a needed platform for mocking Palin. A stitch in time may save nine at election time.

Psychopaths also have a markedly distorted sense of the potential consequences of their actions, not only for others, but also for themselves. They do not deeply recognize the risk of being caught, disbelieved or injured as a result of their behaviour

That profile fits the entire inner circle of the prior administration. No?

I don’t either, but I read some of them, and I see commenters on those blogs also mention banning at some sites. Mostly this is the only blog (the entire FDL group of blogs) where I read most of the comments. On others I just read the posts. I don’t go to Orange at all unless I’m following a link, and I mainly wind up at HuffPo because I read Froomkin and Jason Linkins.

Obama did a lot more than tweet.

Palin’s good for putting her face on books she didn’t write. She’s good at charging you $20 to have your picture taken with her. She’s good for… can’t think of much else. Quitting halfway through her term as governor, I guess. She’s a joke.

Re Obama: I knew Obama would fail progressives as POTUS and didn’t support him. What no one could have known was that he’d sell out and betray us all.

Did you have a blank envelope (stuffed with cash) that someone had dropped off for the inspector, from his office, because they knew he would be stopping by?

Could be the problem.

My brother in law on Long Island had a fenced yard with-out a 6′ connecting fence to the house. No sooner did he put it up then the inspector stopped by for the permit. Seems the permit was a $50 cash payment to correct the records.

Groupthink can be misleading and/or dangerous under any circumstances.

It does indeed. Fortunately for us, Jane is always coming up with ideas outside the mainstream blogging left. That’s what makes us firebaggers.

No worries, demi! Groupthink and conformity would result if we didn’t have tougher skins. Thanks for expressing your view.

She’s not a sociopath; she is just pathologically stupid. There’s a difference. Rove is a sociopath.

And the current one.

Village idiots have existed before Palin, and they will continue to exist after she’s gone. She’s nothing special.

Sarah Palin and tea party folks are corporate-sponsored noise-cancelling machines. They are out there to cancel out the formation of legitimate American consensus.

The content of their messaging is irrelevant, which means it does not have to be logical or truthful just noisy.

I have no reason to gather around that circus. I keep hoping enlightened Americans will stop.

Yo Southern D. How’s the birthday thing goin?

My original questions was why do people come here and share that they were modded somewhere else? I understand other site may have different standards of censoring. I get that. My question is one more of how much time am I expected to take to tell everyone how more fabulous they are, how they know so much more than others, how they are so much more in touch with the truth?
Do you understand what I am asking?

Fair enough. My concern is only with giving people like her undeserved attention, which just helps feed her narrative. Anyway, you’re right. I really only intended initially to drop my two cents and go. Never seems to work out that way!

I’m trying to think of exceptions, but I’m coming up short.

I think we need to pay attention to Palin and others. The problem with many voters is that they are uninformed. We are not.

At first, I thought you said they were uniformed. Ha. Thanks for the laugh. Even if unintentional.

I’d prefer to ignore Palin, too, but it’s helpful to stay abreast of her ghost-written b.s. just to be in the know. Whether we like it or not, the PTB have deemed that the Grifter is today’s bright shiny object of distraction; she will at least run in the primary. If Tweety wants to “do” her, then good luck to him (I thought he only got tingles over male politicians, so who knew???). derf

Couldn’t agree more !

Oh, so you thought I was bragging? I can assure you that that was not my purpose, although as I learn more about Firedoglake, I begin to see how a ban from certain other sites might be seen as a badge of honor here.

What I actually had in mind was the following:

1. Serving notice and testing the waters. The ban from HuffPo caught me totally by surprise, and I felt I had wasted a great deal of time writing comments there before I was banned. I actually put quite a bit of painstaking thought and effort into the very post that got me banned, and because I did not expect any such response, I did not save a draft offline. I have no intention of abiding by any blanket prohibition on personal attacks, on any forum; as I mentioned, I think such bans are wrong. If the moderators at Firedoglake agree with those at HuffPo on this topic, and are going to ban me for that reason, I would rather have it happen sooner than later, so as to cut my losses. Character defects (in Palin and others) are an issue that comes up often.

2. Raising the issue of bans on personal attacks. I do see why moderators would be tempted to issue blanket bans on personal attacks, and I agree that probably the majority, at least, of such attacks are not constructive contributions to discussion. It might be worth exploring the criteria for telling the difference. (The main one, I believe, is simply relevance; Palin is still a potential candidate for high office, so any deep personality flaws she might have are highly relevant.)

I see the term “firebaggers” tossed about on other blogs, too. Gets my dander up. Started, I think, with the alliance with Norquist (never mind that it wasn’t an acceptance of Norquist’s entire ideology, just for a specific issue).

Good point. I’ll never understand why anyone listens to her, but there are people who do. The people who listen turn her seem to be Rush dittohead types. One difference seems to be that she thrives on whining about being persecuted. Don’t we feed that narrative when we give her attention only to mock her?

The uniforms are next – brown shirts.

Here’s a note back to the Swag-Hag ‘Hey stupid bitch..Wikileaks isn’t responsible for the documents…they are just the arbiter… These documents got LEAKED BY SOMEONE INSIDE THE GOVERNMENT!! Probably Rep. King from NY or Rep. Hoekstra from Mich… AND if they did – it’s TREASON!!”

So go back to your flour bowl and throw in another batch of moose nuts so you have some to chew on tonight at the Klan meeting…

Scarecrow has a fresh cross-post ready: Obama Flunks Economics with Pointless Federal Wage Freeze

Not exactly, but I guess I don’t view others who mention banning as looking for us to tell them “how more fabulous they are, how they know so much more than others, how they are so much more in touch with the truth.” Just different perceptions, I guess. It’s sorta interesting to me to see what gets people banned on other blogs, and I don’t interpret it as looking for kudos.

Just different perceptions, I guess…and there’s room for those here.

I think such bans are wrong. If the moderators at Firedoglake agree with those at HuffPo on this topic, and are going to ban me for that reason, I would rather have it happen sooner than later, so as to cut my losses.

I’ve only seen the mods swoop in if someone is destructively off topic (during a Book Salon, for example) or uses language that suggests violence. On the other hand, an old regular, Hugh, left FDL because he was censored unfairly (in his opinion). I don’t recall the details.

From what I’ve observed, FDL is pretty “loose.”

It’s sorta interesting to me to see what gets people banned on other blogs, and I don’t interpret it as looking for kudos.

Good point – that’s actually another purpose of sharing information about other sites and their banning policies. I want to know where I can post without too much self-censorship, and I assume others will want to know, as well.

I, for one, would love to read what you wrote at HuffPo. Do you have a copy you could post as a diary here?

Unfortunately, as mentioned in my response (@86) to demi above, I didn’t save a copy because I didn’t expect to be banned. I suppose I could try to reconstruct it. To me, Palin’s use of her seven-year-old daughter as a human shield against a hostile, rowdy audience at a hockey game was what clinched it:

I’ve been warned that Flyers fans, they get so enthused that they boo everybody at the drop of the puck. But what I thought I’d do is I’d put Piper in a Flyers jersey, bring her out with me. How dare they boo Piper!

But there were numerous other pieces of evidence as well, keyed to the DSM criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder.

Fuckin’ workin’ on my birthday. How bad is that? Boss wasn’t about to stretch a 4-day weekend to 5. Fuckin’ capitalist. *g*

As nutty as we think she is she just might come up with something that the Rethugs will grab and run with that will be a total disaster if it gains any traction. Far right is far right and they don’t have to be smart.

In my view, Palin is a sociopath and she is stupid, but those are totally separate and unrelated issues. Rove may well be a sociopath (although unethical behavior by itself is not enough to establish that), but he is definitely not stupid.

One answer…Start out slow, then tapper off but enjoy your day.

Thanks for the information – those are exactly the kinds of tips I was looking for. I’m not too worried about FDL if only one old regular has left on bad terms. From what I’ve heard here and elsewhere, problems with immoderate “moderators” at HuffPo are common.

David Dayen is upstairs!
Progressive Budget Plan Deals With Deficit Reduction Through Growth

I’m aware of the Wikipedia articles mentioning the distinctions some have tried to draw among “psychopathy”, “sociopathy”, and “Antisocial Personality Disorder”. I don’t find these distinctions very enlightening, and I treat all three of these terms as nearly synonymous, although “Antisocial Personality Disorder” is tied most closely to the DSM, because that’s the term they use for this condition.

Cleckley assumes there are varying degrees of sociopathy. When I speak of true sociopaths, I mean people devoid of conscience, lacking any ability to form meaningful bonds with other people.

I don’t think “devoid of conscience” and “lacking any ability to form meaningful bonds with other people” are equivalent, although much of the literature on sociopathy assumes they are. It is my firm and considered opinion that Palin lacks a conscience. However, she clearly has bonds of some kind with her family that she doesn’t have with other people. On the other hand, the incident at the Flyers game illustrates that those bonds differ in important ways from those that more typical individuals have with their families.

Why don’t we ask her how she would stop wikileaks from leaking her book?

I worked in mental health for 20 years and psychiatrists and psychologists have this discussion all the time. A specific DSM diagnosis might be entered into a person’s medical record but they’re commonly referred to simply as personality disorders, eg, thought disorders (schizophrenia and bipolar) and personality disorders.

I do find sociopathy or “Antisocial Personality Disorder” to be significantly different from other personality disorders. Further distinctions can be drawn within the class of sociopaths, dividing them into various subtypes, but I believe that their commonalities are more significant in practice than their differences.

Sarah Palin and King are worse terrorists than Al Qaeda and any foreign organization.

True sociopaths usually end up in prison. Your basic chronic belligerent drunk (bar brawler) could be diagnosed as Antisocial Personality Disorder.

can we leave the unnecessary sarah palin stories to huffpo and fox?

This is the point I was trying to make (albeit poorly, I lack higher education on this subject).

True sociopaths are usually criminals, not because they are angry or ignorant but because they are curious and self-serving, with no consideration of their actions towards others. Most serial killers that I’ve read clinical diagnosis of fall into this category.

Sarah is just self-serving, but not at all curious. She doesn’t seek to understand the world around her in any way. Her anger and misplaced resentment comes from personal guilt or shame or ignorance, probably all three. She doesn’t possess the tools to process these emotions so she projects these feelings outside herself.

The very fact that she HAS emotions takes her out of the running as a sociopath. Unless you look at sociopathy as a classification of disorders, and not a disorder itself. The DSMs in the past have had it both ways. When I think of sociopath, I think of a person like Gacey or Gein. Folks who can’t be helped by medication or therapy.

I think Sarah could benefit immensely from therapy.

True sociopaths usually end up in prison.

I’m not so sure of that. I think a substantial fraction of CEOs are sociopaths. I’m influenced here by Joel Bakan’s The corporation: the pathological pursuit of profit and power (both the book and movie versions). Although I haven’t yet read Babiak and Hare’s Snakes in suits: when psychopaths go to work, skimming it has confirmed my impression. The fictional character Gordon Gekko in the movie Wall Street (and its recent sequel) is to my mind a typical high-level sociopath. Gekko does wind up in prison, but the way he gets there – and what he does after he gets out – is more significant and interesting.

I think a substantial fraction of CEOs are sociopaths

I see the thought process here, and believe it could be accurate.

Another side of the coin to look at though;

Are CEOs sociopaths, or does the path most CEOs take to achieve that position and stay in that position alienate them from the masses to the point where they no longer have the proper perspective?

America’s upper-echelons are structured in a way that shelthers the CEOs from the rest of us. They aren’t exposed to anyone but Yes-Men and softball media.

Are they exhibiting symptoms of a true psych disorder, or just acting as products of their environment?

There’s an Internet rumor that the Wikileaks leaker is not that kid, he’s just a strawman for the real Leakers, the reincarnated Iraq Study Group, out to force an Iran attack and total undermining of the new Gandhi in the WH.

Some say. It must be so. It’s out there. Right, Cokie?

I agree with that. Most who rise to CEO status have been insulated from the unwashed masses most of their lives. Private school, poison ivy league school, daddy’s money fulfilling every whim, daddy’s connections in whatever firm, grooming by management. Very uncomfortable dealing with someone like me on a personal basis.

Are they exhibiting symptoms of a true psych disorder, or just acting as products of their environment?

I believe it’s primarily a process of selection: the corporate environment is designed to elevate sociopaths to positions of power and influence. “Power tends to corrupt”? I don’t think so; instead, in a capitalist society, Corruption tends to empower.

On the other hand, it’s also possible for people who are not sociopaths to be influenced by the environment to act as if they were, so in their case, the process you describe also occurs. I believe Bakan, Babiak, and Hare allow for both cases. One defect in the academic and medical literature on sociopaths is that it exaggerates the difference between sociopaths and the rest of us. To my mind, sociopaths differ from the norm primarily in what they lack (such as a conscience!), not in what they have (capacity for deceit, manipulation, cruelty, superficial charm, self-deception, and so forth). A sociopath is a stripped-down, oversimplified version of humanity; their power (to the extent that they have it) results from being free of conflicts. The rest of us give in to temptation, if at all, only after a struggle (at least some of the time); for sociopaths, there’s no struggle and no hesitation. On the other hand, their “strength” can become a weakness in complex situations where caution and hesitation are virtues.

In essence, corporations expect you to check your ethics at the door, and act like a sociopath, whatever your real feelings. In such an environment, actually being a sociopath can be an advantage.

The point people are trying to make is that they are looking for a blog that will not ban them for opinions against the Snowbilly Grifter or the Beckanoia. I’ve posted sporadically on FDL for the past 3 years and had quite the following at HuffPo – nearly 4,000 — that is WHEN they ban you for no reason. It is not against FDL it is about censorship and HuffPo does it without WARNING for ridiculous reasons – I am on temporary ban from HuffPo on a Beckanoia thread – no reason given.

At this point my question would be: what’s the purpose in labeling a CEO or govt official a sociopath? IMO this has been an academic exercise that could only be resolved by having the person in question examined and diagnosed by a psychiatrist or clinical psychologist.

That’s exactly it, in a nutshell. HuffPo let you get a following of ~4000 and then banned you? That puts my experience in perspective! I would estimate that I had only written about 15 posts before they canceled my account (although, as usual for me, I had spent quite a bit of time on each one). I heard later that in such cases it’s often possible to go to them hat in hand and get reinstated, but I’m not interested.

Well said, and great points. All of them. I think the high-dollar business environment does offer sociopaths a place to thrive. God Bless ‘Merka.

what’s the purpose in labeling a CEO or govt official a sociopath?

It provides a theoretical framework for predicting their behavior. For example: was Palin’s remark about “our North Korean allies” merely an innocent slip of the tongue, or does it indicate a cavalier disregard of the most basic facts, and a disconnect between speech and action that would bode ill for a Palin Presidency? The remark by itself doesn’t tell us; but, being convinced on other grounds that Palin is a sociopath, I would go with the direst interpretation. Likewise, while a sociopath in middle management may be hard to distinguish from a more normal individual who conforms under pressure, the two may act very differently once promoted to CEO.

IMO this has been an academic exercise that could only be resolved by having the person in question examined and diagnosed by a psychiatrist or clinical psychologist.

Clinicians aren’t God. I have more confidence in the “academic” theories arising from psychiatry and psychology than in their everyday clinical practice. If we can’t make a confident decision from the published theories and the individual’s public record, I doubt a professional’s examination could offer us certainty either.

No, clinicians aren’t god but I’d take their opinion as to whether someone is in reality a sociopath or not over anybody else’s. I’m not a believer in armchair psychiatry or psychology. Most, if not all, of us exhibit behaviour at one time or another that could be construed as antisocial or other symptoms contained in DSM. Not goin’ down that path.

Most, if not all, of us exhibit behaviour at one time or another that could be construed as antisocial or other symptoms contained in DSM.

Which is why I actually have quite a high threshold for identifying any particular individual as a sociopath. Notice that I wasn’t even willing to declare Karl Rove to be a sociopath without knowing more. I don’t routinely label specific CEOs or right-wing politicians as sociopaths, although I believe it’s important to keep in mind the sociopath-friendly nature of those jobs. Palin is exceptional in the blatant nature of her behavior; in fact, I can’t think offhand of any other person, even on the far Right, that I would be equally confident in labeling as a sociopath. (I am convinced that her 2008 running mate, John McCain, also had serious mental health issues, but they were of an entirely different nature from Palin’s sociopathy.)

I’m not comfortable with people with, I’m assuming, little or no experience in mental health diagnosing others. Saying that Palin or McCain is nutso is one thing, actually trying to stick a psychiatric diagnosis on them is another. You may consider this my last word on this matter.

I’m not a believer in armchair psychiatry or psychology.

Unfortunately, in most cases, there’s no available alternative to the armchair. Even if a professional examination could give us a better picture of whether or not Palin is a sociopath, would she allow one? Of course not.

Every judgment we make about a political candidate’s fitness for office involves at least an implicit theory of their psychology. We’re better off making that theory as explicit as possible, and letting the best academic research inform it to the greatest extent possible.

Thank you. Politics necessarily involves opinions on highly inflammatory topics. My endeavor to have a rational discussion on Palin’s psychology appears to have gone much better on Firedoglake than in the comments section of the Huffington Post.

Some people seem to think that being banned at one site somehow raises their status when they have to go elsewhere.
Huffpo’s standards were pretty low, from what I was seeing three or four years ago. Left and haven’t gone back: the commenters were mostly trolls, as far as I could tell.

I’m not comfortable with people with, I’m assuming, little or no experience in mental health diagnosing others. Saying that Palin or McCain is nutso is one thing, actually trying to stick a psychiatric diagnosis on them is another.

It depends on what you mean by “diagnose”. We’re not talking about providing mental health services for Palin or McCain; that is indeed best left strictly to professionals. The issue is what concepts we should use to best evaluate their fitness for high office, given the information we have.

More generally, the tasks of detecting the signs of sociopathy, and defending against the devastating harm that sociopaths can do to those around them, are too important to be left solely to mental health professionals. At prevalence rates approximating 1% of the population, sociopaths are everyone’s problem. Hare, one of the world’s greatest experts on the topic, chose to write popular books to help us protect ourselves against the danger, just as Cleckley did before him. Observing the 2008 election cycle, I was appalled at the utter blindness of large segments of our population to even blatant signs of sociopathy. That blindness continues to concern me far more than any danger posed by Palin herself.