Good morning, Jay is here in Minnesota, too.
I don’t EXACTLY share all of Madam Phoenix Woman’s analysis, so that should make for a lively conversation here.

Good morning, everyone!

We’re in the midst of our first snowstorm of the season, so things are moving a bit slowly here.

Variety is the spice of life!

I know folks who work in various levels of government — state, federal, local — so seeing county clerks jerked around like this really ticks me off. People wanna know why public service attracts so few people nowadays? Here’s one of your answers.

Maybe I’ll get it started.
You know I don’t begrudge Rep Emmer or his lawyers their right to purse all they can right now.
The question will be what will Rep Emmer and the MN GOP do once the recount is over on Dec. 14?
If the gap remains @ 8,700, an election contest will be very difficult to justify.
And, I believe, the political pressures will be intense to accept the numbers in the recount.
By the way, Rep Emmer has reiterated an increasing desire to NOT delay.
MinnPost’s Cyndy Brucato, who is nicely wired to GOP sources, has a fine post this morning about that.

http://www.minnpost.com/cyndybrucato/2010/11/12/23361/tom_emmer_states_bluntly_that_he_will_not_be_involved_in_any_stalling_tactics_on_recount

Phoenix Woman,
I agree that burdensome requests are a no-no.
On the other hand, if the governorship is at stake, and the election is (relatively) close and what’s at stake is total control of the state government — with GOP now holding House and Senate — a good college try should be expected.

Don’t you think the DFL would do the same thing if they were in this position?

The thing is, what is a request for obscene amounts of data the requestor knows full well cannot be provided immediately — particularly as the clerks are busy trying to get the count finished and ready for official certification — but a delaying tactic? And a tactic that is hanging over the heads of every single other county in the state?

By the way, off topic, but I’m in Rochester today, how much snow in Twin Cities?

I think the DFL would but when you are all about not paying taxes, how do they pay for all of this? Does the republican party have to pay?

First off, can you guys fill us in on the type9s) of voting systems in use for this race?

Exactly what info is there to be recounted?

BTW< I spent Thursday doing a recount on Long Island, I feel your pain

We already know that answer: No. They didn’t do it in 2008, when they were behind 700-odd votes. Granted, one could say that the temptation — or desperation — wasn’t that great on the DFL side, but then again neither is the win-at-all-costs nastiness.

I guess nobody got up soon enuff……………Dayum!

Right now, we’re looking at three inches of snow atop an inch of slush. Luckily it’s not going to freeze before the plows can get to it. I hope. (Sigh… when I was growing up, the roads already would have been plowed by now. But that was before a quarter-century of Republican-induced budget and tax cuts…)

What do you propose they do?

I’m not defending frivolous delays or onerous demands, but I do ask you to put the shoe on the other foot, so to speak.

The last time the Dems were a bit wimpy on the recount front that was called Bush v Gore.
They have regretted that ever since.

I think it’s unrealistic for any party or candidate to be within shouting distance and simply laying low.

BUT this 8,700 margin is — historically — insurmountable.

That’s what’s true.

I believe you’re wrong.
The DFL filed extensive Data Practices requests in search of absentee voters.
Ramsey County refused.
The DFL had to go to court.

Our voting systems in Minnesota involve paper ballots.
You fill in ovals next to your candidate’s name.
They are then scanned into a machine.
The accuracy of these machines is more than 99 percent.

We then have a complete hand recount of all paper ballots.
Unlike other states where RETABULATION is done, we here actually examine each ballot for voter intent.

Agreed. We’ve seen way too much lack of fight from the Dems and that’s why ’10 was such a debacle.

People want to know just WHAT the people they’re putting their lives in the hands of….stand for.

Indeed, many counties dragged their feet back in 2008, too, before must gave in.
The GOP is simply following the DFL template from 2008.
Imitation is the greatest form of flattery.

Ah, speaking of Cyndy Brucato:

Wedel’s book came to mind reading a handful of posts at Minnpost.com by Cyndy Brucato, a woman perhaps best known as being a long-time and highly successful news anchor at KSTP TV in the Twin Cities. She began her career in Duluth, giving her a unique knowledge of and connection to the state. KSTP is the only locally-owned broadcast outfit, founded by the Hubbards, one of the most Republican politically active families in the state. The nexus of a local media empire and Republican politics makes the Hubbards a potent force. Now, KSTP is not a hack outfit like Fox, but they do lean to the right, sometimes assisting Republican candidates at strategic moments.

Brucato left KSTP for the first time in 1986, later joining the Republican Arne Carlson administration from 1990-1996. She was also communications director for Norm Coleman’s successful senate run. After her time with Carlson, before another stint at KSTP, she ran her own “strategic communications” firm for eight years. CityPages wrote in 2004:

Brucato spun professionally for the likes of the Minnesota House Republican Caucus, the tobacco company Brown & Williamson, the pharmaceutical giant Eli Lilly, and Koch Industries (a privately held company that made headlines a few years back when it received the largest environmental fine in state history for pollution at its Rosemount refinery).

Brucato returned to KSTP as a news anchor in 2004, for a six year stint that lasted until this past August, yet apparently continued her “strategic consulting” company.

Excuuuse me. I was up VERY EARLY preparing for the spirited comments of Phoenix Woman!!!!!

So, you’re saying the Democratic governor’s race has the Dem ahead nearly 9,000 votes and the GOP is still screaming it’s head off?

I recall the Franken/ Coleman race and it WAS pretty close, but Coleman was ready to fight to bareknuckles, it seemed.
Thank the gods, so was Franken

yes, she is well connected to certain sources.
We’re glad to have her at MinnPost, broadening our horizons and outreach …
But there are lots of blurred journalism lines these days.

Good MAN!…………I just got up….different time zones and all. ;^)

yes, 8755 today (I think) and we do have AUTOMATIC recounts here.
and, yes, the GOP is preparing for a potential election contest — law suit — if the recount doesn’t go its way.

I think this will turn on the politics.
Will the state populous stand for an extended election contest with that sort of certified margin?
I think not, but, remember the state is divided in this race – 43, 43, 12, etc.

One thing to add: I’ve been interviewed a lot recently because of “This Is Not Florida” book, and often by skeptical hosts of shows on Limbaugh/Beck/Hannity stations.

I’m often asked: “What’s wrong with Minnesota? Why can’t you guys get it right on voting?”

My response is: I don’t understand. Our system works well. When elections are close, we SHOULD take our time to figure out who won.

Now, again, 8,700 is, without doubt, the widest margin of any recount in recent history in the US.
I think time will make everyone realize this. I hope.

How about letting the clerks finish doing their jobs, and not forcing them to stop doing their jobs to fight off a lawsuit they can’t afford?

If the goal is to have the count done in a timely fashion, it’s not going to be accomplished by sticking the county clerks with demands for every scrap of data generated — “All machine tapes, summary statements, ballot security information, revisions to reported election night results, absentee ballot information, voter registration information, names of election judges, incident reports and information provided to or for the benefit of the Dayton for Governor campaign” — and then suing them when they (unsurprisingly) can’t get it done right away because their first priority is and remains attending to the count itself (because this isn’t the only close race in the state — there are at least six House races that were decided by less than one hundred votes).

The idea here is to create the myth that evil lazy DFL-favoring clerks control all county vote operations. How they expect the judges who will be deciding these suits to swallow it is beyond me — it might fly in a jury trial, but not with judges who know better — but maybe this is just to craft yet another ACORN-and-Franken-stole-the-election-for-Dayton myth they can use in their fundraising appeals.

OK, OK … uncle.
But, again, what if Dayton were behind by 8,700.
What would your position be then?
Honestly . . . .

Well, I’ll respond to that: throw in the towel, graciously.
It seems the GOP can’t get enough of drama and dividing people.

What is the general public’s reaction to the GOP’s thuggish behavior?

After the Franken/Coleman mess, you would think there would be some negative reaction to this.

Yup, just ask Michelle Tafoya Vandersall.

By the way, correlation doesn’t always imply causation, but did anyone else notice how, right after the undisclosed $5000 GOP donation of Joe Scarborough’s came to light, MSNBC suddenly announced that its suspension of Keith Olbermann for donating money to Dems without telling them was over?

If Dayton were behind by that amount? I’d be just as pissed. But Dayton, as we Minnesotans know from watching him in action as our Senator, just doesn’t operate that way. For good or ill, he doesn’t have the fire in the belly to pull off a stunt like this. Frankly, I wasn’t sure I wanted him to win the nomination because I wasn’t sure he could handle it. But he proved me wrong.

Good question.
I’m guessing that once it sinks in that 8,700 votes is as wide as North Dakota and that it is statistically insurmountable, there will be recogntion that Rep. Emmer’s chances are slim.

By the way, to GAIN 8,700 votes, there would need to be about 18,000-20,000 ballots in play; that is, found or discovered or a math issue of huge proportions.

Just because he’s behind by 8,700 doesn’t mean election judges statewide need to find ONLY 8,700 ballots. Dayton will be getting votes in there, too.

MORE IMPORTANTLY, each county has been re-examining its tallies the past week. There has been very little movement in this examination. Emmer has picked up a few hundred votes. That’s all.

WAIT! Link? This I’ve got to see.

And here I thought it was all our petitions to MSNBC!
Hmmmmm……THAT was sure kept quiet

By the way: Jay, thanks for taking the time out of your schedule to be here in the midst of our wonderful snow storm — or is all rain where you are down in Rotten Chester?

My apologies, but I need to leave now. My son is a soccer player for the Macalester College Scots, and they are in the NCAA tournament at Whitewater, Wisconsin.

Mac, by the way, played host to the Franken recount training sessions in 2008, to a visit by Michelle Obama during the 2008 campaign and by VP Biden last month. Active campus.

It is also the alma mater of Minnesota Supreme Court Justice Paul Anderson, who said of the Franken recount: “This is not Florida!” title of my book.

Not sure how the men’s soccer team voted, however!!!

I look forward to another spirited session of friendly disagreement with Phoenix Woman, if and when this recount heats up in a few weeks . . .

Hope I have permission to log out . . .?

rain … rain … drip drip … seeya

BYE…Thanks

As I said, correlation doesn’t imply causation, but still.

This hit the news November 5 (scroll to the end for the undisclosed $5000, the news of which came late to MM) and was all over the internet on November 6.

On November 7, the suspension’s lifted.

Was it the only factor? Almost certainly not. Was it possibly a deciding one? Could be.

But anyway, back to the recount discussion!

See ya!

That’s not the same as asking for every single piece of data generated by St. Louis and Pine counties on all votes (not just absentees) before the initial count was even finished.

By the way, speaking of recounts — the recanvassing of KY-06 shows incumbent Ben Chandler gaining a vote to make his lead 649. His Republican opponent has now conceded.

Glad you came back Jay sorry I was Late I’m going to read comments now:)

Jeff Rosenberg demonstrates the absurdity of the MN GOP’s excuse for filing suit with a little Data Practices Act “request” of his own:

A brief 25-word summary of every press release ever sent by the GOP.
The full text of every newspaper article that quotes a Republican politician, operative, or employee.
A list of all former teachers, from kindergarten through college, of every current Republican officeholder. Please include current addresses.

All payroll records for every GOP employee since the party’s inception.
All past, present, and future contact information of every past, present, and future GOP employee.
The total amount spent each year, since the party’s inception, on donuts, cookies, pizza, sandwiches, bagels, and beverages (please provide the amount for each food item separately).
2-page book reports on Charlotte’s Web and Stuart Little.

I would like this all by Tuesday, so your immediate attention is appreciated. If I do not have it by 9:01 AM on Tuesday, I will see you in court.