
Would he have let Susan Collins get in his way?
President Obama sat down with some progressive bloggers yesterday for a Q&A, and this was one of his more puzzling responses.
I mean, if folks think that we could have gotten Ben Nelson, Arlen Specter and Susan Collins to vote for additional stimulus beyond the $700 billion that we got, then I would just suggest you weren’t in the meetings.
This notion that somehow I could have gone and made the case around the country for a far bigger stimulus because of the magnitude of the crisis, well, we understood the magnitude of the crisis. We didn’t actually, I think, do what Franklin Delano Roosevelt did, which was basically wait for six months until the thing had gotten so bad that it became an easier sell politically because we thought that was irresponsible. We had to act quickly.
Obama’s narrative doesn’t exactly jibe with reporting about the stimulus.
Summers did not include Romer’s $1.2-trillion projection [for the stimulus]. The memo argued that the stimulus should not be used to fill the entire output gap; rather, it was “an insurance package against catastrophic failure.” [...]
He [Summers] believed that filling the output gap through deficit spending was important, but that a package that was too large could potentially shift fears from the current crisis to the long-term budget deficit, which would have an unwelcome effect on the bond market. In the end, Summers made the case for the eight-hundred-and-ninety-billion-dollar option.
Larry Summers’ conclusions about the size of the stimulus can’t be blamed on President Snowe. And it’s much closer to the $787B the administration finally got than the $1.2T Romer and people like Paul Krugman were recommmending.
The president’s willingness to ask for too little was, it turns out, a huge strategic error. It allows his opponents to argue that the Democrats had what they wanted, which then failed. If the president had failed to get what he demanded, he could argue that the outcome was not his fault.
When the stimulus passed, the White House celebrated. There was not the slightest hint that Nelson, Snowe, and Collins were hampering the recovery and putting the country in jeopardy. For Obama now to insist it was their fault that it was too small doesn’t ring true (not to mention that they could’ve passed a larger bill via reconciliation), and in any event, just makes him look weak.
But I really think the President’s remarks about FDR are just bizarre.
Here is a time-line of the “100 Days.”
- March 4
- Inauguration Day. Franklin Delano Roosevelt becomes President of the United States.
- March 5
- The President proclaims four-day Bank Holiday with the suspension of banking transactions and gold and currency exports.
- March 9
- Hundred Days Congressional session begins.
- Congress passes the Emergency Banking Act.
- March 15
- Congress passes the Economy Act
- March 31
- Congress passes the Reforestation Relief Act, (establishing the Civilian Conservation Corps).
- April 19
- The President announces US departure from the gold standard.
- May 12
- Congress passes the Emergency Farm Mortgage Act.
- Congress passes the Federal Emergency Relief Act.
- The President signs the Agricultural Adjustment Act.
- May 18
- Congress establishes the Tennessee Valley Authority.
- May 27
- Congress passes the Federal Securities Act.
- June 6
- Congress passes the National Employment System Act.
- June 13
- Congress passes the Home Owners Refinancing Act.
- June 16
- The end of the Hundred Days session.
- Congress passes the National Industrial Recovery Act, (setting up the National Recovery Administration), the Farm Credit Act, and the Banking Act of 1933.
Now that’s some change we can believe in — all in about 3 months! And that doesn’t include the repeal of Prohibition.
The merits of the legislation aside, it’s more than a little jarring to hear a Democratic President accuse FDR of acting irresponsibly in the face of the Great Depression. Moreover, had the Obama administration acted more like Roosevelt’s, they would not be in the situation they find themselves in.



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Obama is clueless if he really thinks FDR was irresponsible.
And if he thinks Daily Kos is a progressive blog, he’s delusional.
Reason No. 3,451 why this Corporate Hack is a One-Termer.
Who was included in the
circle jerkimportant meeting with the President? Somehow I managed to miss that part.How much longer is it the country has to put up with this snake oil salesman? Oh, that’s right 2 more years, unless of course a Republican House decide to end the charade sooner.
Oops. Damm those fuckin bloggers, always coming up with the nasty ol’ facts that piss on our parade. Well done Blue Texan. No arguement here.
High time we send Joe “You Lie!” Wilson and apology.
Obama’s intellectual intransigence and arrogance are his Achilles heel.
This lying, out-of-his-depth hack isn’t fit to utter the name of Franklin D. Roosevelt.
I think the potential “catastrophic failure” was a catastrophic failure of imagination – they couldn’t imagine an economy that wasn’t dominated by a handful of mega-banks.
I hope so. I don’t want DLC disciple for Pres., nor did I think I voted for one. Sure got one though.
Thanks for the timeline of the first 100 days of the FDR era. It slams the Spinmiester’s BS about the man whose shoes he isn’t fit to shine.
He’s spinning the FDR legacy like he spun the letter MLK wrote from the Birmingham jail.
I guess Obama meant it was irresponsible of FDR to wait so long to be sworn in as President. It’s what Rahm based the ‘one president at a time’ strategy on, during Obama’s transition, that so frustrated Team Auto’s top men.
Atrios, Joe Sudbay of Americablog Gay, John Amato, BarbinMD of Kos (?), and Oliver Willis of Media Matters
The idea that that horse’s ass can even begin to see himself in the same league as FDR is as laughable as the idea that he is a constitutional scholar.
Much as I hate to agree with Joe Wilson about anything, all I can think upon reading this post is:
President Obama, YOU LIE!
Let’s face it. Obama is not “biting the hand that feeds him” here. Nope, Obama is “buttering the side of the bread” that “feeds him.” Obama is solely and only working for the rich and powerful. Us serfs can get used to it because it ain’t gonna change, no matter who gets elected next Tues.
But he does think that both about FDR and the Big Orange.
But we know that Obama’s a corporate hack Trojan Horse candidate.
So: on with the Kabuki Show, folks.
Interesting comment about those varmints on the inter-tubes at the Daily Bell today.
I think he’s talking about FDR’s refusal to be baited by Hoover into announcing his plans/programs before he took office.
Don’t really know.
Beautifully stated. I’ll second that.
This guy is just making stuff up as he goes along.
Agree with Teddy. The only multi-month lag was between November and March when Roosevelt was sworn in. And legislation was created to move that up to January. So FDR even fixed that!
Intelligence, even wildly impressive intelligence, is largely useless politically if the smarty pants in question knows not what he believes. The smartest person in the room is no match for the idiot that actually buys what’s coming out of his or her mouth.
“It’s not really a lie if you believe it.”
-George Costanza
FDR was loved by working and middle class Americans and despised by the Republicans. Obama is despised by everyone. I guess he did bring the nation together.
Perhaps he thinks that FDR’s Inauguration Day was in January rather than March, so those items passed on March 15 and thereafter were just about on his timetable?
Jesus, what a whiner!! Does he really think that this is going to inspire people to vote for him & Democrats?
Where’s the part about “once it became apparent that the Republicans [and those worthless Democrats Rahm & I supported] weren’t going to support the level of stimulus that was needed, I should have gone to the country, educated them, and let THEM demand of their Senators that this legislation pass in an effective amount.”
Oh, wait, that would have meant a) fewer tax cuts for the wealthy; and b) a bit of a delay in rescuing zombie banks.
This guy is worthless, and the “progressive bloggers” who sit and take [then repeat] this stuff are equally culpable. Do NONE of them have a house threatened with foreclosure, jobless benefits running out, a fruitless job search, inability to get medical care — and/or don’t they know someone in this situation?
The degree of “be patient, he’s doing all he can” is astounding, and shows a complete ignorance of the dire state of so many of our citizens.
It’s kinda like he’s playing chess.
Thanks.
Then we can infer that Obama is both clueless and delusional. Not inconsistent conditions.
Just like Bush before him he takes no responsibility for anything that turns out bad.
I would like to associate myself with all of the above.
To wit:
Corporate Hack
One-Termer
Circle jerk
snake oil salesman
intellectual intransigence and arrogance
lying, out-of-his-depth hack
catastrophic failure of imagination
Spinmiester
working for the rich and powerful
corporate hack Trojan Horse candidate
Wonder if Obama also thinks FDR’s SS was irresponsible? The Catfood Commission could be a tell.
He obviously does not get it. By settling for a smaller package that was guaranteed to fail he gave his enemies ammunition for his demise. They can say he is a big spender and his big spending didnt work. Unfortunately Obama didnt realize that the republicans were rooting for him to fail until to late.
That’s what bothers me.
This is what I wanted to hear: “The Recovery Act wasn’t big enough. That’s on me. And I’m doing everything I can do fix it.”
Hard stop.
Guess no one will ever know about him. If it’s not something he can do by deceit, he’s not interested in doing it.
No responsibility in his mind = no (deserved), criticism. Politicians have to be a bit of a narcissist but lately that’s been all they are: Narcissistic to the exclusion of everything else.
It what I keep saying…It really makes no difference if the GOP gains the majority.
Plus:
making stuff
smarty pants
despised by everyone.
worthless
complete ignorance
clueless and delusional.
The Republicans have him right where they want him. If they “win” back the House Obama will have the threat of impeachment hanging over his head like the sword of Damocles. Expect the nation to move even further right with the connivance and compliance of BHO. So much for the chessmaster. It’s checkmate.
The only irresponsible thing FDR did was to cave in to deficit-scold pressure in 1937 and prematurely roll back parts of the New Deal. That caused the Depression to come roaring back full force, not to be fully vanquished until World War II provided a second New Deal of sorts.
Summer’s comment about the bond market tells it all. Whatever Keynesian roots he had through his father were withered away in the 1970s and the 1980s when anti-Keynesian economics became all the rage. What was he thinking, given the size of the output gap, the time it would take to fill it under the most optimistic scenarios, and the clear evidence of a liquidity trap emerging in the summer of 2008. He and Geithner and a lot of other economists (though not all, as we know) were obsessed with the housing market. A rise in interest rates would kill whatever recovery might occur in that sector. We now know, and could have known then, that the housing market was so overbuilt that there would be no recovery for years to come.
The ‘American model’ such as it is, was based on ever expanding consumption. Housing is normally placed in the capital account, but 4,000 square-foot homes are not capital, they are consumption. The model was unsustainable, urban sprawl not being the least of the constraints.
This is what comes of being too smart. Like his conservative mirror image Greg Mankiw, Summers was too smart. He could get through all the high-tech economics without blinking and eye, but he couldn’t see the elephant right in front of him. Unfortunately, Geithner also seems to be blind to the elephant. It comes, I suppose, with spending too much time with bankers and financiers. That’s what Treasury Secretaries do, but there’s a cost, and we can see it in Summer’s comment.
Just think, you could have got Hilary. Don’t see any gain there. As to McCain, at least we haven’t annihilated any furriners with nuclear weapons. There never was any choice; and there never will be.
Well, that say’s alot. But, I must say, that some of those generalized eptithes apply to more people that just the president. Mirror anyone?
Yep. The double dip was due to him caving into the deficit peacocks of the time. A lesson Obama and the rest of the Democrats seem incapable of learning.
Except he said in his Peter Baker NYT interview that he knew bipartisanship was an illusion when Boehner announced his opposition to the stimulus while Obama was on his way to meet with the GOP House caucus, something like three days into his presidency, iirc. So — was it an illusion? Is Obama playing Captain Hindsight (pace SouthPark)? Did he and Team Obama continue to delude themselves despite all the evidence the GOP wasn’t playing ball? Or was all that bipartisanship blather just for us rubes?
Seriously, he needs to answer some questions: concerning the illusion of bipartisanship, Mr President, what did you know and when did you know it?
Unfortunately, that question seems to be in his appearance rider: First rule of bipartisanship illusion: don’t ask me about bipartisanship illusion.
O is closer in actual actions to Herbert Hoover than he is to FDR.
Examples: O continues the illegal criminal occupation of Iraq with 200,000 troops, contractors, mercenaries and miscellaneous Hessians…
O escalated our criminal occupation of Afghanistan, with some 200,000 troops, contractors, mercenaries and miscellaneous Hessians…
O continues the illegal criminal Bush regime’s program of spying on all Americans.
O, the supposed Constitutional scholar, continues the Bush suspension of the Writ of Habeus Corpus, the basis of all of our Rights in the Constitution.
O has escalated the illegal immoral robotic drone murder of Pakistanis. It is stupid, counter-productive and evil.
This list goes on and on…
Nice coverage BT, appreciate you diggin into that one a bit deeper than I did on my diary.
I ’bout hurled when I read the questions and Obama’s answers.
All I could hear was this incessant bleating of lil calf’s trapped in these lil pens being force fed lobster and creme brulee . . . . Inside The Beltway Of Their Minds.
Proggy’s my A@$!
A game is a game. Don’t get too caught up in it.
Obama is Hoover. We are living in that period 1929-1932 when things got worse and then FDR took the reigns in 1933. Problem is we have “Hoover” for another term–or even worse a Repug. Obama was supposed to be FDR.
In other words, we are fucked.
This.
I consoled my Repug acquaintances in ’09 that we had just elected a moderate Republican. Turns out we elected a Liberal bashing pinhead.
Economists may like complicated theories and statistical analyses in their discipline — to make it impenetrable to outsiders — but they LOVE simplistic answers in the socio-political arena. For Summers (and Geithner), it was “we have to save the banks — at all costs.” And that’s what Barry wanted to hear.
It should have been, “we have to save Americans in trouble through no fault of their own.” That’s what FDR would have done. Doing that would have shut the Rs out of the WH for a decade or more — possibly destroyed their party.
For a guy who went to Columbia and Harvard, he’s showing himself to be pretty fucking stupid.
More to the point, you have to ask yourself before you cast a vote: “Do I ratify his conduct in office?”
If the answer is no, you may want to pass – at least on that particular pol’s race.
Yesterday’s meeting with the selected progressive bloggers was the start of Campaign 2012. I’m glad I wasn’t invited; I would have called bullshit on him any number of times and probably have walked out.
In fact, very consistent for this arrogant prick.
Obviously Obama skipped FDR 101 and just went to the Chicago School of Economics, where you learn FDR was an idiot commie.
FDR pulled the bull by the horn in his first 100 days. He kicked ass.
Dissing FDR (or subtlely calling him irresponsible) is not a way to motivate your base a few days before a midterm election.
It would have been like Bush dissing Reagan in 2002.
O and Senate “leader” Harry Reid should own up to the fact that they had a chance to get rid of the Senate filibuster back in January, 2009 at the start of the new session. By a simple majority vote of 51 Yes, they could have changed the Senate rules and eliminated the filibuster. This would have allowed progressive legislation to be passed with only 51 votes, a simple majority. No need to kowtow to Repubs or Blue Dogs at all…
But, no, O and Reid much preferred to keep the filibuster, so that they could conveniently blame the Repubs for blocking progressive legislation… God, these corporate Dems are truly vile and dispicable (sic) people…
FDR won four terms as president.
Obama won one, and won’t win another.
I didn’t want to say anything for fear I’d offend, but I wondered where that bad smell was coming from. Then I realized, Nelson, Specter, and Collins are here, under the bus, with the rest of us!
Just a few tweaks…
I swear to god this makes me want to do the most insane thing in my life and go out and vote for a Republican. But then again that would only help him. He would really be able to blame all his corporatist legislation on the Republicans then. What a clusterfuck.
I’m waiting for President Split-the-Difference to call FDR a “loony liberal leftist.”
The ugly truth is that I’ve had those thoughts as well. I won’t do it, but holy jumpin’ jehosophat, that Obama is a piece of work.
Right the fuck on.
Was this the same meeting where he said he is evolving on gay marriage?
And get ready to see Obama’s “love” for FDR this December when he guts Social Security to pay to extend Bush’s tax cuts for “economic royalists”.
I have already mailed in my ballot. Maybe my Green votes will do for me what I cannot bring myself to do.
Obama to the New Dealers: “I welcome your hatred.”
His motivations for dissing his base were discussed ad nauseum in BT’s early morning thread, where it was logically proven his goal is to turn the House red (as in Rethug).
That’s why you weren’t invited. Everyone the WH called upon to be at this little circle jerk was a complicit, administration suckling moron.
Heh.
FDR is the Greatest USA president ever!
FDR saved the USA! ask any real american
Obama, is running neck to neck with Hoover and Bush, and is on the verge passing them both to become the worse USA president ever.
Unfortunately, a large portion of the democratic base are very young. They don’t teach FDR in schools the way they used to and there aren’t as many folks who were alive in those days to tell the stories as there were in years past. FDR’s presidency is becomming a lost legacy. A lot of the folks my age have no clue why he was so great, no clue why he was so effective, and no clue why he was so popular. So when O’Blond-a makes a statement like “FDR was irresponsible by waiting 6 months”, most of my generation doesn’t question it.
I don’t know why folks are saying that – fercrissakes, Duncan Black and Joe Sudbay were there and I don’t see anything in the transcript to indicate either one lobbed any softballs
is there a specific cite on this for either of these two ?
Three things.
First, the market crashed in ’29. This action took place in ’33.
So, there had been considerable time to reflect and plan as compared to the situation Obama faced.
Second, FDR had 70 of 96 Senators as opposed to 59 of 99.
Third, FDR’s remedies like Obama’s did not produce all that much in immediate relief. In 1934, at the midternm, unemployment was at 21.7%.
The unmitigated GALL of this executive to flagrantly LIE about Roosevelt’s response to the First Great Depression, in defense of his own WHOLLY INADEQUATE policies, which he refused to push hard enough for, is insulting on levels unprecedented.
I think the saddest part about this is it will stifle the steps forward we took, in regards to equality in the WH, for years to come. We elected a man who wasn’t white, and he’s failing miserably. Next time a non-caucasian or a woman makes a serious run at the office of the President of the United States, all these teabaggers and knee-jerk conservatives will have an even worse taste in their mouths. “We gave a minority a change, and look what happened!”
This makes me a sad panda.
Outstanding post, BT.
Obama: I came. I promised “change.” I failed to get it done*.
*or even to try.
My understanding is that after FDR was elected in ’32, he was offered the opportunity to be inaugurated early if he would commit to maintaining Hoover’s general economic policies. He refused. IIRC, there was thus a several-month delay in Roosevelt’s inauguration from when he could have gone in. This is frequently spun as “FDR caused the Great Depression. He refused to do anything until it was too late!” This ignores the fact that had FDR gone in early, he couldn’t have done what he did, because of the understanding with Hoover. FDR was inaugurated on schedule, with his own plans-and the rest is history.
My reaction to Obama’s talk to the bloggers and his reference to FDR was as follows: Obama thinks that government should not be responsible for the employment of 8 million people who were unemployed in the last big recession. He thinks that private enterprise will hire these people if only government will establish the conditions to encourage ‘growth’. FDR was the better thinker. He realized that only the government can intervene when legions of citizens are harmed by a toxic business economy. FDR acted swiftly to hire millions of unemployed people and created a safety net built on work for those who could work and assistance for those whom he knew would not be capable of being hired by private or public employers. Obama betrayed his ‘blind faith’ in market forces yesterday. That needs to be highlighted. Over and over.
When FDR in 1944 anticipated the end of WWII, he began consider an Economic Bill of Rights for those who would be living and working in the post war America. He wanted to guarantee a meaningful work/job which paid a remunerative wage for every working adult. He wanted guarantee housing, healthcare, and education for every citizen. And he wanted to build on his Social Security plan so that everyone could enjoy financial security in retirement or if disabled. He also wanted to guarantee that labor could bargain on an equal footing with business owners. In sum, FDR would have been the more responsible of the two, if only because his goals were set higher for the common man and for true economic equality.
Obama’s error is his ‘blind faith’ in the free market ideology. It is his Achille’s heel and the source of his failures.
Yup.
I honestly haven’t read the transcripts of the entire interview. The quotes I have seen have been pretty softball. Not to say that the original questions weren’t strong in some cases, but the follow up wasn’t there. It seems that no one has the balls to say “Mr. President, thank you for your long, rambling, senseless answer. Everyone in the room is dumber having hard that shit. You are awarded no points. My original question still stands. Do you believe DADT to be unconstitutional?”
First, Obama and co had the benefit of learning from the past. Bernanke is still touted as an expert on the Great Depression.
Second, Obama had 60 senators when the Stimulus passed. His failures only contributed to losing one later.
Third, FDR had four terms, while Obama will only have one (Obama has no one to blame but himself for this massive fail).
“Your time to edit this comment has expired.”
And how!
Joe Biden understands the real sccop about FDR. Wonder if Joe Biden is finding his comments about FDR as repulsive as the rest of us are.
Obama’s twisting of that course of events would make Karl Rove proud.
Well, at least he didn’t disappoint in that arena. If the gays weren’t thrown a bone just before the election I would have been shocked. Like clockwork.
When people look back and match Obama words with his actions they will learn one simple truth this man lied his way into the White House.
History will not put a happy face on the Obama presidency.
The conservative party of today, will not exist to much longer, in it’s current form. The biggest threat to the current conservative party of today is to win control of the house or senate. Like Obama, they will have to admit that they lied to win, and have no solutions to current depression the USA find herself in.
This is when all the fun will begin!
The corporate party that know controls the USA, will come under heavy pressure from all sectors of the USA population.
That’s the very, very, very sad truth.
There is no progressive that doesn’t fit comfortably under the Obama bus. I’m sorry what makes the President think he can write this check that he so clearly can’t cash? FDR was a better president than you, in fact he is number one or two in the nations history. Call me in a few years when you have — you know — done something.
Great Post!
Thank You and BT
Oh don’t fret. McCain will get his mining for uranium in the Grand Canyon. Thank god, he can retire with a war heros pride.
Well, you are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.
Al franken was not sworn in until July of 2009. The Stimulus Bill was
enacted in February of 2009. If you include Liebermann, that meant there were only 59 Democratic Senators when it passed. Period.
As for the rest, when it comes to FDR, like most here, I consider him to have been a good President, but I do not subscibe to your Parson Weem’s
like view of him.
To me the damage is done and our country is doomed to be ruled by a feudalistic system run by the Republicans for the next 50 years. Even as terrible as people here think Obama is, and I do share in many of the complaints, the fact that the electorate would even consider the alternative or stay home and not vote in protest shows that we live in a nation of masochists. I can’t see what can be done to end it. Perhaps the coming complete and irrevocable collapse of the American financial system will truly change things, but I doubt it. Feel free to beat me up, I’m much too tired to feel it or care.
TRue, but irrelevant.
In the 1929-1932 time frame, the politicians and economists did not have any idea what to do. In this time frame, not only did we have the benefit of 70 years of studying the Great Depression, how it came about and how to fix it, but we even had a a MFIC central banker who made his professional bones on the Great Depression and knowing how it came about, how to fix it and how to avoid it. As an apologist for the “people with the grave responsibilities” you will recall that experience and knowledge was one of the talking points rolled out to support Obama keeping Bernanke and the other economic idiots who got us into this mess in their jobs.
For that matter, there was also the negative example of Japan in the 1990s on fixing their problems.
In other words, for Obama the template was already there. It was known how to fix the problems. He chose to not follow that template, which implies he wanted and wants those problems to continue.
And, as to having a supermajority of senators, Obama never even tried to make any of the turnable Republicans fear him. He held out two possibilities: cooperate with Obama and the Democrats and (a) be destroyed by your fellow Republicans for no gain other than a warm, fuzzy feeling or (b) maintain Republican party unity and gain more power. He never even tries the third alternative (c): cooperate with Obama and break Republican party discipline or be the subject of, say, investigation and/or prosecution. There were any number of subjects for that:
Vitter: Mann Act.
Collins/Snowe: I seem to recall reports that one of the Maine twins had an incident involving a DWI MVA covered up within the last couple years.
Huck Graham: facilitating torture
McSame: there had to be some campaign financing scandal in there somewhere
Any one or more of them could have been set under the magnifying glass like ants on a sidewalk until they, or another one or two, of the Republicans in the Senate decided that enhancing the lives of their constituents instead of protecting the banksters was a better idea than maintaining party loyalty. Instead, Barry gave Joe Lieberman his committee chair in return for campaigning against him and vilifying him in the worst way.
Obama’s is some of the worst handling of power in history, to be frank about it.
Re the number of senators: I stand corrected.
Otherwise, I’d take FDR over Obama any day.
I agree with your point, but controlling the MOB is becoming tough
The elites consider the moronic masses of the USA a MOB, few american voters have a clue about what they are voting for or against.
the MOB has always been control by the following
CBS
ABC
NBC
FOX
MSNBC
NYT
Washington Times
etc.
Some of these pillars of control, are being weaken. THE GOP is playing with fire, there are reasons the forefathers of the USA wanted to keep Church and State separate, the GOP and the rest of us are about to find out why! The corporate party,(which is currently made up of Dems and Republicans) is about to get a huge Wake Up Call.
They will soon, be begging the USA govt to keep Church and State separate.
See some people love Jesus more than they love Money, and this is not going to go over well with the Banksters.
Three things.
Yes, but unlike what Obama faced, FDR had no history or proven track results to go from. It was all unchartered territory.
Obama had the roadmap right in front of him. Bloggers, economists, and even ordinary Americans were able to grasp what needed done. Obama, and the Democrats, CHOSE to ignore the track record and try and “fix” this emergency on the cheap. Unlike FDR, there was no NEED to reflect and plan as the solutions were known from DAY ONE.
And when the “not near big enough, cough, stimulus, cough” passed they had 60. And the fact still remains, to this day, THAT THEY ONLY NEEDED 50. It was, and remains, their CHOICE to have it require 60. That’s a choice for which Obama and the Democrats should be held responsible.
This is laughable. Unemployment was nearly 1 in 3 at it’s peak. 1 in 5 is a big improvement. Also, unlike the “jobs” created in this “recovery,” the jobs created under FDR’s “New Deal” were decent jobs with fair wages. Not only is the unemployment today little improved, the jobs that do remain are worse than the ones lost.
Please OldGold, comparing this lying sack of shit to FDR is always going to be a loser.
No, we don’t have a choice, because both parties are bought and paid for by the financial and business sectors. Also consider that more senators are now millionaires, and therefore even more divorced from the tough reality facing many Americans.
As a functioning democracy, we’re toast. just choose jam or butter and get out the knife.
I guess they don’t teach much about Reagan either. To hear a Democrat say he respected Reagan in the primaries and vote for him anyway, means they definitely are not being taught the theory of piss down economics. Oh well they are on their parents’ health insurance until 26 now. That should secure the vote for 2012.
Sorry scribe, I see you beat me to most of the points.
Well done.
Whatcha’ drinking?
Fact check.
When the stimulus passed they only had 59, not 60. But they only needed 59 IIRC. IIRC it wasn’t until Franken was sworn in that they needed 60. Might be misremembering that though.
This is my recollection from High School History too, but I attended public education in pre-Reagan era when FDR propaganda was predominately favorable.
So this exchange highlights some troubling aspects about our President, but they might have been foretold by circumstances like his vote in favour of the telecomms with regard to the FISA bill; his inclination to keep key parts of the establishment player pantheon in tact, upon taking office. The writing was on the wall, and it was not favourable from the outset. But what was the choice? I voted for him anyway.
The Larry Summers crowd was a hold over from the first Clinton’s adherence to the Robert Rubin economic philosophy; could we have expected anything different from a second Clinton administration?
John McCain’s goto economic guy was Phil Gramm–he of the de-regulate everything camp. Think what a nightmare that would be.
It is sad to think that the current Democratic campaign philosophy, “Sure we suck, but the other guys are worse,” is the fact of the matter.
What option do I have, though. I live in a state where Michele Bachmann is a representative (though not mine, thankfully). I have no choice but to vote in opposition to the Republican idiocy, even if I no longer buy the Democratic party leader when he trumpets, “The fierce urgency of twenty months isn’t really enough and I can’t believe you’re acting like you really thought it should be even though I kinda let on like that in the past.”
Excellent distillation of the Wormtongue-addled president at the meeting.
In ’32 unemployment was 23.6%. Two years later it was 21.7%. So, your 1 in 3 and 1 in 5 figures are just objectively wrong.
FDR’s template? Well, I suppose OBama could have used it, but I am not sure most of ytou would have supported WW III. Hell, in 1938 unemployment was still at 19%!
Thank-you, thank-you, thank-you.
It would just be more honest to agree with the Republicans and say the Clinton’s run the Shadow Government. The talking point that someone would have been worse than Obama in a year that the Democrats could have elected a cheese platter is just getting beyond pathetic.
Oh that was to 97.
Can you imagine if the Republicans had control of the Senate and said something like, “We really wanted to pass this legislation but we just couldn’t convince Barney Frank”? How is it acceptable for the Democrats to say that Ben Nelson, Susan Collins, and/or Arlen Spector determined the size of the stimulus? Or that Joe Lieberman was the reason we didn’t get Medicare for 55+? If the Democrats have no ability to persuade people on matters of supreme importance, they really shouldn’t be politicians.
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve asked one of my peers about trickle down economics and get blank stares in return. It’s terrible. They don’t teach a damn thing about Reagan. Too recent. I learned about Reagan from the History Channel, wikipedia, etc. The information is there for those that want it, but who the hell wants to look up Ray-gun when they can listen to Kid Cuddi and watch Jersey Shore?
Doh! 1 in FOUR. Dammit. IT was one in 4 at it’s peak, not three.
And by 1934-35 it was down to just about 1 in 5. That’s significant improvement, whether or not you like it or not.
And FDR’s template was NOT WWII. It was Keynesian theories. And we had the track record to prove it worked.
In EVERY YEAR BETWEEN 1933 and 1941 (BEFORE WWII), unemployment fell and GDP rose, with the loan exception of the recession of 1938.
His policies worked, they were working, and they will work. It’s proven. WWII merely added even more demand (stimulus) which just proves further we know which tools are necessary.
And nice to see you’re just like the right wingers picking the 1938 year (intentionally) because that was the one year unemployment spiked during the recovery. It was also the year FDR began to claw back due to fears over the deficit……. hmmm…..
I’ll play as this as long as you want to. Obama will lose everytime. And that’s not my fault. That’s Obama’s. And the Democrats.
I’d love to be cheeleading right with you og, but I’m not cheeleading this rightwing bullshit. Not when the country already has proven it will support more progressive policies. The Democrats DESERVE to be held accountable for ALL of their choices. Hope you enjoy Tuesday!
My first choice was John Edwards, so what do I know, I couldn’t find a cheese grater to vote for. I’ll simply recede into the pathetic background now, and thanks for that scintillating opinion, it was so useful.
You’re welcome.
Good for you, Kris. I wish I could say it gets easier to fight for the values of FDR after having our eyes opened from a young age. You will at least grow peers in the battle that you will have for a lifetime. And Huey P Long is worth a look. He even voted against FDR a few times when he thought FDR was going to the right in some of his legislation.
Dear Blue Texan :
The Democratic Party of today has almost nothing in common with the Party and leadership of FDR’s day.
maybe time to re-evaluate some unquestioned loyalties?
I am not cheerleading. On the basic point of the size stimulus, I have long criticized Obama for not fighting for a much bigger package. He left a lot of money on the negotiating table. It was a horrendous mistake.
What I am engaged in is this. If you are going to compare Obama to FDR, which the OP did, it is important that the comparison take place using facts as opposed to myth.
Yes, generally from ’32 until the beginning of WW II in ’39, the economy improved. But, not as much as many here suggest and by any reasonable measure in ’39 the economy was still moribund. The GDP in ’39 [$872.7] was essentially the same as it was in ’29 [$869.2]. Growth exploded with the war. From ’40 thru ’45 the GDP doubled.
Precisely. It’s so patently absurb that when Obama pukes out junk like that, I just want to scream. I think most who voted for Obama were uneasy from the the start when he started in on all the bipartisan hokum, but most were willing to give a try & see what happened.
When ReThugs came out swinging, and shouting from the rooftops that they would OBSTUCT everything, it quickly became obvious that there wasn’t much point in discussing anything with them. Sure, sure: do a little tap dancing, do some bobbing & weaving, but then: get on with it.
From approximately mid-Feb 2009 onwards (if not sooner), every time Obama said the word bipartisan, citizen morale dropped. I knew we were SUNK even then.
And it’s not like rightwingers were even going to “appreciate” the effort. Rightwingers are mostly all authoritarian bullies. They just sneered at the phoney weakling in the White House and renewed their most viscious of attacks. It was about the dumbest “move” that I’ve seen any politician make ever… and that’s saying something. It rapidly became very obvious that Obama is a Trojan Horse corporate hack, who had no intention of running his Admin as a traditionally Democratic admin.
Boooooguuuusssss….
I believe Blue Texan misinterprets the context of Obama’s comment regarding FDR being “irresponsible.”
Obama was no doubt referring to the period between FDR’s election and his inauguration, during which time FDR did nothing to help Hoover and in fact the Depression accelerated (and yes, inaugurations were in March back then, not January). Hoover repeatedly pleaded with Roosevelt to sign off on his economic policies (remaining on the gold standard, fighting inflation) to calm the markets and the nation’s deposit holders but FDR did not want to be associated in the public’s mind in any way with the failed previous administration. During this period between the two administrations (the interregnum), the unemployment rate rose to 25% and there was a massive new wave of bank failures. By the time of FDR’s inauguration, the country was desperate for action, any action, even that which previously would have been dismissed as “too radical.” Hence, the ease in passage of the key elements of the New Deal in the first 100 days. The very fact that so much was accomplished in the first 100 days mitigates against believing that this was the 6-month period of time that Obama was referring to when saying that Roosevelt “waited until the thing had got so bad” before acting. He has to be talking about the period between the election (November 9, 1932) and the inauguration (March 4th, 1933) when, in fact, the government was effectively paralyzed. It is no accident that the 20th Amendment was passed during this terrifying period of drift.
Now, contrast FDR’s course of action with Obama’s willingness to work with Bush and lend his support to TARP during his interregnum, what Obama is referring to when he contrasts his actions with FDR’s. Unfortunately, if Obama were a more calculating politician he would see that FDR was indeed right politically to avoid having any claim of ownership for the policies of the previous administration, despite the human costs of such political calculations. Even though TARP was not technically a failure and stands to make the American taxpayers a profit (as well as potentially heading of another Depression), Obama’s willingness to engage in bipartisan action for the greater good of the country has cost him dearly in people’s perceptions of him as the hoped for new broom sweeping the status quo away. Instead, because he followed his “responsible” course during his interregnum, he is now seen by many as “just another politician,” bailing out the moneyed interests at the expense of the average American, to the extent that many people no longer realize that it was Bush and Paulson who initiated TARP in the first place! Responsible or not, FDR new exactly what he was doing when he refused to have anything to do with Hoover or Hooverism.
I don’t know how any fair minded person could look at this graph, all of which is PRE-WWII, and say FDR’s policies weren’t working very well indeed.
oldgold, I think some of the points of people’s gasp in hearing Obama say this is also based upon ideological grounds as well as economic policy, SS and PWP especially, during these time. My final gasp with him came after he had a response to Blanche Lincoln in the health care “debate”.
Lincoln: “Are we willing, as Democrats, not only to reach out to Republicans, but to push back on the people in our own party who fight for the extremes…”
Obama “Blanche is exactly right. We’ve got to be non-ideological to our approach….” “We don’t want to be looking backwards and just go back to the New Deal….”
These kind of comments just cut to the bone for many Democrats.
O/T
Dylan just said research has found a gene marker that identifies one as liberal. And that research shows people with more friends as children are more likely to lean left (So thaaaaaaaaaaatt’s why the right wingers are such assholes!).
Interesting stuff, but it always seemed obvious to me there was a difference between right wingers and liberals genetically. Liberals seem to have a functioning brain.
oldgold the one thing FDR did, that you can’t measure with numbers, was make people feel that better days were coming!
Obama policies do not lead one to think or feel like better days are coming.
FDR was a LEADER!!! (Obama is a JOKE) FDR did not have a road map to follow, he developed one. FDR fought for main street, unlike Obama who fights for Wall Street
FDR created real jobs, that allowed people to support their families. Obama policies are making people homeless! (The foreclosure problem is spinning out of control, and Obama ignores it)
Oldgold a “60 minute” spot just showed that real un-employment is about 22% with people with PHD’s, Engineering Degrees, etc. trying to get $9.00 per hour jobs at Target.
History will not be nice to Obama
I bet we shared our crayons more too.
Where FDR delayed was in refusing to agree with Herbert Hoover and approve of steps Hoover wanted to take in his last months in office, after the 1932 election. Hoover kept pressing FDR to agree, and FDR wouldn’t. He wanted to preserve his freedom of action until he actually took office. One result of the delay was that the bank crisis became desperate. Once he did take office, he immediately declared a bank holiday, and then, a week later, changed policies and announced banks would be reopened as they met government approval.
Right. That’s hardly “irresponsible.”
So, kids, what’s the plan? Like many here, I don’t think I can vote for Obama again. It’s unlikely a third party candidate can win. We go down deeper and deeper until…?
Amazing thing about American culture: we expect the least and make excuses most for those with the most power, fullest authority and strongest mandates.
If I had made promises to my employer in the interview and 20 months later sported a BHO-like record of following through I have not one doubt I WOULD BE FIRED.
The working populace of this country still faces a depression.
Could get rid of the filibuster.
Doesn’t need 60 votes.
DADT clearly violates the equal protection clause.
The executive is a coequal branch of government with the judiciary; he absolutely can and should comment on the constitutionality of laws.
A public servant’s religious conception of marriage has no place in policy.
This is the most depressing document I’ve read in a while. Time to start drinking.
Step one might be to try and stop thinking in that old paradigm. I know it seems self-evident, but what it is is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Third parties can’t win therefore I won’t vote for them, therefore third parties can’t win.
If we can start to change that attitude among us (and I share it too), maybe that would be a good step one?
I dunno, I know I’m damned tired of the old steps. Willing to try almost any new dance now, except don’t want to do the teabag waltz.
Yes, the New Deal did work to a point. But as the graph you reference indicates, by 1939 the economy had only returned to 1929 levels. Certainly, by the midterms in 1934, “Happy Days” had not returned.
I am not arguing that FDR’s was a failure or that Obama’s record is superior. I am contending that the difference between the two is a difference in degree as opposed to difference in kind.
A review of how FDR got Social Security was initially enacted might lessen your critique of Obama’s less than above reproach machinations in passing HCR.
There is so much special pleading here, I’m not even going to counter it.
It’s just the DNC crowd’s stock tactic.
Run out in droves and reregister Green after the midterms. Scare the crap out of the Dems through a reregistration drive. Start campaigning for Greens like we did for Dems in 2008. At least they do have the Green New Deal and our money would be where our mouth is.
I am well aware of the history of social security.
And it’s like comparing apples to spit wads the comparison is so far off. Same with Medicare. Both were initially set up without the profit motive inserting it’s ugliness into fields it doesn’t belong (and of all the fields the profit motive doesn’t belong, health care is NUMBER ONE).
Not so with Obama’s health insurance industry gift. He not only didn’t set it up without the profit motive, HE EXPANDED THE ROLE OF FOR PROFIT INSURANCE COMPANIES, and more or less enshrined them into the health care model now as they will become even more rich and powerful thanks to mandating us all be customers.
Something else FDR (or any other President or Governor or anyone before) never did. Never have we been mandated to be the customers of a private, for profit, industry. That precedent will come back to haunt us, if it’s not taken down.
No, again, comparing O’s healthcare reform with FDR’s Social Security is going to result in O’s losing. Badly. As with almost anything this poor excuse for a President and even poorer excuse for a Democrat (he really is a Republican) has ever done.
No, I am not not engaged in special pleading. Actually, what I am doing is precisely the opposite. I am trying to review the historical record so that today’s reality does not have to compete with mythology.
The mythology concerning FDR is the “special pleading.”
But what is the mythology you speak of? I think that’s where you’re losing me.
His New Deal programs did mostly work. His handling of the rich and powerful was legendary (they hated him and even tried to attempt a coup). He was a decent military leader and an even better country leader in keeping our hopes up and fears down (There is nothing to fear but fear itself).
He wasn’t perfect. A coupld of his programs failed and even though I agree with the result, I think it is a fair criticism to bring up the packing of the SCOTUS.
I’m just not really catching what you mean by mythology. And I really can’t see how comparing anything this President has done to what he did is even in the same room. Blue Texan provided one, but there have been other quotes that shows the man has contempt for FDR and The New Deal. IMO that’s just not a Democrat. The New Deal defined the Democratic Party for more than a generation. And they were hugely popular with it, winning elections.
oldgold?
The NEW DEAL saved the USA! Period and it is still saving the USA.
If the new deal had a fail, the USA would have become a third world nation quickly.
Imagine the USA without New Deal Programs today? How many seniors would be Homeless in the USA today without Social Security?
OldGold, you do know that without FDR NEW DEAL, there would not have been
a middle class in the USA, that was the envy of the world?
What about forcing people to buy health insurance says Obama is like FDR?
What about spying on americans make Obama like FDR?
Is Obama policies going to return the USA to 2006, 2007? NO
What you miss OldGold, is the fact that Obama endorses the idea of off shoring good american jobs. Obama like CLinton thinks NAFTA made the USA stronger. Until leaders like Obama realize that super powers have very strong mfg bases.
(China has monopoly over technology because they control the rare earth mineral market, CHina is a SUPER POWER, the USA now has to beg CHina for rare earth minerals to make I PHONES. I doubt if FDR would let this happen)
Obama is a lot closer to Reagan than FDR.
FDR, like Obama, was a non ideological pol.
Despicable, coming from Obamanible Franklin DeMan0 Rusevelt!
Yes, the initial iterations of these programs left out whole groups of people. So his policies helped a lot but left some without. Compared to O’s who helped only the top two-percenters and left everyone else without.
And this again brings up the difference in HCR. With unemployment and social security, the system remained basically the same, just more and more people became qualified over time. With O’s HCR, if that system remains the same, we lose. Period. Our health will depend upon the profit motives of the health insurers.
And suggesting FDR was non-idealogical seems non-sensical to me. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on that.
FDR was not a great civil libertarian. For instance, I trust you are familiar with the Japanese-American internment camps?
Not to mention his plan to eviscerate the third branch of the federal government. It is euphemistically called “court packing.” It was far worse than that. It was direct assault on Constitutional government.
Uh, that’s not right at all.
I really don’t know why you bother. Round hole, square peg, no work.
What else can we expect from a DLC hack who’s favorite President was Reagan? Please, dear god, let the crazy nutjob Repubs take back Congress and impeach this clown… Obamco is setting back Liberalism decades.
Exactly. FDR tried to save capitalism from it’s excesses, Obama is trying to save crooked capitalists from accountability.
considering that the Supremes were hellbent on declaring every program and initiative of the New Deal unconstitutional, and that the Third Branch would have happily seen most of the country homeless and jobless forever, FDR’s “court-packing scheme” as you put it was brilliant politics. By threatening to put more liberal justices on the court it resulted in a far more moderate court, and ensured the New Deal’s success for decades.
You’re making a very important point. Obama has largely continued Bush’s policies for “fixing” the economy. He should have come out swinging against the Republicans and Bush from the gitgo. Politically AND economically this was a better move. Problem is, he has bought into reviving the economy of 2006-2007 totally neglecting to acknowledge that the Bush bubble economy was the PROBLEM not the SOLUTION. So we’re left trying to get back to an economy rife with fraud and corruption rather than investigate, audit, prosecute and jail.
Short story – Obama’s economic polices are doomed to failure unless he can recognize that the economy requires fundamental reform starting with the financial and organizational (fire the crooked CEOs) of the TBTF banks and failed Wall St firms.
I’m confused. I thought a couple years ago, Obama was the new FDR. I really don’t remember these “debates” then.
They used to get censored, or the messenger mugged.
very astute, tom…and spot on. But perhaps the real reason Obama did not take the same stand-off approach as FDR did between election and inauguration was because Obama really believes there is no difference between the Dem and Repub approach when it comes to the economy?
In which case he sold us a bill of goods during the campaign.
I guess I misread Arthur Schlesinger’s multi-volume study of FDR and the New Deal. Sclesinger’s bottom line on FDR: pracical, energeic and pragmatic.
Interestingly, leftist historians have skewered FDR and the New Deal.
The Administration got rid of Little Schmucky and Fat Larry. Is there any way it shut Obama up at least until after the election? This guy is off the wall.
I didn’t really want to know we were in this much trouble.
So, the Prez’s argument is: I could have done nothing (like FDR!), or I could do something meaningless. As a man of substance, I chose the latter.
In the first 100 days of his administration, President Obama signed into law a tax increase on tens of millions of U.S. citizens.
What? You don’t remember this tax increase?
With the prodding of Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, Congress passed a federal tax increase on tobacco. President Obama signed this into law, this totally regressive tax increase, within weeks of being sworn-in.
And anti-smoking Democrats cheered.
I just wanted to point this out in the context of what FDR did in his first 100 days, or in the case of a regressive tax increase (no matter what you feel about the merits of it), what FDR didn’t do.
The Blue Dog Democrats of today didn’t have any problem raising the tobacco tax during the midst of a major economic disaster, nor did they have any problem cutting deals with health insurance, pharmaceutical and hospital companies behind closed doors before health care “reform” was rolled out, nor in appealing a federal judges anti-DADT ruling (essentially punting to the gridlocked conservative-controlled fanatical-Republican-filibuster Senate), nor in appealing numerous Bush era criminal cases, nor in continuing the awarding of federal contracts to Blackwater (now Xe), nor in continuing the illegal Bush/Cheney war in Iraq while escalating Afghanistan (remember Nixon and Cambodia/Laos escalations of the Vietnam War?), nor in setting up a conservative-packed Cat Food Commission with its feral feline eyes on gutting Social Security, nor in talking up tax cuts and fiscal austerity instead of calling for much higher taxes on the wealthiest 2 percent and holding any corporate criminals accountable for almost crashing our economy…and so much more.
I only brought up the federal tobacco tax increase because at that moment I realized that President Obama was going to be just a continuation of Bush/Cheney to a large extent, since candidate Obama had declared while running for president in 2008 that no one making less than $250,000 a year would see a tax increase during his presidency. I guess U.S. citizens making more than $250,000 a year are the only ones that smoke cigarettes. (Oh, BTW, only cigarettes were affected, not cigars. Get it?).
Obama’s misrepresentation of FDR enrages me, although my admiration of FDR borders on the irrational/hero worship.
I realize that FDR did some truly reprehensible things (internment camps, etc), but compared to the likes of Clinton & Obama – well, there’s no comparison.
I’m reminded of some links to an astonishing MLK 1967 interview with Mike Douglas that Glenn Greenwald put up recently.
FDR, MLK, this is real leadership.
I’m so sick of these mealy-mouthed, bootlicking neoliberals!
In the credit where credit is due department, the Obama Administration did pretty much single-handedly save the American auto industry, whereas Republicans were more than willing to let it (and, not coincidentally, all those union jobs) go extinct.
The proper arguement is to compare Obama to Reagan, his hero!
FDR is a real democrat, Obama is a trojan horse
Listed below are things real democrats don’t do
1st Obama endorses the Bush agenda of spying on and killing americans
2nd Obama attacks Unions (the F! the UAW moment screams republican)
3rd Obama double downs on Bush Wars, (now they are Obama wars)
4th Obama attacks Teacher Unions (teacher unions now hate OBAMA)
5th Obama does not attack the Banks? he bails them out? (sorta like what the GOP does)
6th Obama passes the Bob Dole Health Care Bill (Bob Dole is a republican)
7th Obama kills the Public Option
8Th Obama kills Drug Importation
9Th Obama APPOINTS an insurance executive to manage his health care Bill
10th Obama does not APPOINT Dawn Johnsen
11th Obama hand picks the cat food commission to destroy Social Security
12th Obama supports Blanche Lincoln, a candidate who hates Unions, and has no chance of winning
FDR saved the USA, at the end of the day, that is all that matters.
Do you really think Obama has a plan to save the USA? NO
I doubt if FDR or any real democrat would have thought it wise in the middle of a depression to pass a republican health care bill.