You may have heard that Defense Secretary Robert Gates declared that the suspension of the gay ban “has enormous consequences for our troops.” The Palm Center clearly believes it’s important to track those Enormous Consequences, so they’ve named an entire webpage just that.
At Enormous Conquences, the Palm Center monitors how many hours, minutes and seconds have passed since the United States military announced they would comply with Judge Virginia Phillips’ order to stop enforcing DADT worldwide. There’s a clock atop the website that tracks how much time has passed. As I type this, it’s a little past 126 hours; if you like, click over to see how long it’s been.
Before you go there, though — I should prepare you. The Palm Center also provides a list of the Enormous Consequences that have come to pass since the US Military obeyed Judge Phillips and stopped enforcing DADT. It’s pretty shocking, so I’ll simply reproduce it here:
Consequences of Allowing Gays to Serve Openly ——– Reported Incidents
Unit cohesion problems ……………………………………………………….. 0
Disciplinary problems …………………………………………………………. 0
Resignations …………………………………………………………………… 0
Privacy problems ………………………………………………………………. 0
Other problems ………………………………………………………………… 0
Pretty horrifying, huh?
You’ll be pleased to know that Ace McCain will keep his filibuster skills in shape; he announced today that he’ll “absolutely filibuster” a repeal of DADT if it comes up during the Lame Duck Congress after Election Day next month. I hope he uses the Palm Center’s chart of Enormous Consequences on the Senate floor to illustrate why he’s opposed to repeal.
Maybe it’s time for Barack Obama to find himself another GOP Defense Secretary, one who has a better sense of the consequences of repeal of DADT. Because I don’t think Enormous means what Robert Gates thinks it means.
PS: For any servicemembers reading this, please note my standard caveats, despite the Pentagon’s announcement that they are following Judge Phillips’ court order:
NOTHING HAS CHANGED.
DO NOT COME OUT AT WORK OR TO WORK COLLEAGUES.
STRAIGHT ALLIES WHO SHARE YOUR SECRET NEED TO STFU.
Thank you.



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The video is a hoot.
Teddy!
Yeah, all those devastating consequences like they have experienced in Britain, Australia, Canada, France, Ireland, Israel, Uruguay (fucking Uruguay!), and the other 15 countries that already allow openly gay military personnel: absolutely no consequences at all.
I thought I would use the original Village People version, but embedding is disabled at (their?) request. So, I just kept hunting. Much happier with this version!
Of course, all of those are civilized countries. I wish I was sure this one was.
Hey doc!
That’s the wonderful thing about the Palm Center, they’ve undertaken many academic studies of these other countries’ militaries, and how successful their implementation has been. The one lesson? It’s like taking off a bandaid: faster is better. The countries that have dragged it out (although none have made it quite such an absurd drama as ours!) have had less success. Britain? Fast, quick, over. Israel? The same.
It’s as if DoD read the Palm Center’s work and decided to do things exactly the opposite of our successful allies.
Truly delightful and ever so appropriate. As Churchill once observed of the British Navy, their real traditions were rum, buggery, and the lash. The American Navy in the 19th century was not so generous with the rum ration.
It’s a Pair-a-Dox!
So glad to see Ace McCain go back on his earlier promise to listen to our service chiefs. Of course, Obama’s choice to head the Marines opposes repeal, so I suppose Ace can take comfort there.
With a Marine.
I read this needed caution again, and am suddenly struck by the image of the one man with the authority to simply end this mess by ordering the Pentagon to just walk away from enforcement.
The President can relieve Gates of the burden of all this pass-blocking, but he is pinched between his promises and his gelatinous backbone. His flaming trousers are down around his ankles.
The absurdity is, of course, that American military personnel are already serving, in combat situations, with openly gay soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq, but they are in our allies armies rather than ours. I remember a number of stories about Britain and Israel some time ago and they experienced no problems at all.
I should add that the military will be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century, just as they were into the 20th century. The raised exactly the same objections to integrating Blacks and women. Obama had his Truman moment and failed it miserably. Not only did he not do the right thing, he has been passing the buck.
Of course the UK exported their puritan assholes to the New World… lucky us.
Block that metaphor!
Not all of them actually and they exported far more libertines and criminals than Puritans, especially in the southern colonies. Reading the colonial records of the Georgia colony is quite edifying, though not in a way that the leaders of the current state would like. I should also point out that in bestiality was one of the more common criminal offenses in Puritan New England.
Anecdotally, it’s happening: folks are coming in to work with the buddies they know already are gay and saying “Congrats!” The boss, looking askance, knows what’s going on but doesn’t have any guidance about what to say or do.
None of this, of course, is enhancing our national security and is, in fact, a major distraction the C-in-C should END immediately with a stop/loss order.
I wonder what McCain’s daughter has to say about this did any of the MSM weasels ask her about it? I heard she was on the news recently.
Hooray for you, Teddy,
Blessings,
Christine just got back from Norway. Have to remember to ask her if that is an accurate depiction of the folks up there.
I hear that.
As an aside: How much better off would TeamObama be if he had signed the Exec Order blocking enforcement on a certain January 20?
Now it’s a campaign issue. Love the timing. Great political shop you got there, Mr. President.
Didn’t they give pilots speed during the Afghan war?
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02/n1449/a01.html?1637
McCain was on the Armed forces committee Drugs are ok for pilots being Gay is not?
Beastiality seems to be a recurring theme, it popped up in a thread last week. You might have exited before I commented that fundies don’t appear to have a problem with it, provided it is OPPOSITE sex beastiality. Anything else, of course, would be perverse.
The Muppets depiction needs more lutefisk. Other than that, it’s pretty good.
They have been giving soldiers speed in every war since WWII (that is in fact part of where the Hells Angels came from).
Shhhh. You’ll wake Rick Santorum.
I wonder how many GOPers today we can trace back to those Puritans? That would explain so much.
Do we know that McCain wasn’t on speed when he crashed those planes?
I still think its a bad idea.
Arouse him any way.
It is a very bad idea, but then that is what the military specializes in.
What is Rick doing on top of Mitt Romney’s car? OMG!
Very good question:) Remeber the rumors that McCain was on something during his debates with Obama?
Better to let sleeping dogs lie. :)
Umm, you missed one or two:
Unit cohesion problems ……………………………………………………….. 0
Disciplinary problems …………………………………………………………. 0
Resignations …………………………………………………………………… 0
Privacy problems ………………………………………………………………. 0
Other problems ………………………………………………………………… 0
Damage to homophobic egos …………………………………………… HUGE
Damage to in the closet homophobes ……………………… ENORMOUS
In addition to Gates’ “enormous consequences,”
(Mr. Stanley wrote the government appeal.)
The irony of these statements from a government that purports to want DADT ended is that they’re really no different than the “unit cohesion,” etc., bigoted arguments of opponents of DADT. The sensitivities of whatever percentage of the military that are homophobes take precedence over the gay men and women in the military who are the victims of these homophobes.
The DD study of ending DADT may have been prompted by some well-intentioned brass; but I don’t have any doubt that there are many others in the brass that see this study as a delaying tactic that may permanently derail an end to DADT. The derailment may occur again by a Senate filibuster in the lame duck session; and the final nail in its coffin will be driven by a Republican House of Representatives – should the Republicans win the election.
This is another example of GOPers denying real world evidence Climate Change, Government Regulating Banks is a good thing, Tax Cuts for the rich don’t create jobs etc, because they believe different.
In fairness, it may chase some of the rabidly homophobic Xtianists out of the military (which could potentially decimate the Air Force officer corps), but that would be a very good thing IMHO.
That was just plain old over-the-counter senility.
Someone has to ask what is McCain so afraid of? Is he afraid that if he showers next to a Gay man that he will just lose all self control and Go Gay if society thought it was ok?
They really do deserve their own entry in the DSM IV.
ticker is at 128:34, and oh my gosh… reported incidents all still at zero!
Over the counter legal speed? Did he take a whole box of No Doze?
McCain is afraid of one thing, and one thing only: not getting re-elected. It’s not like he has any skills for living in the real world.
I think MM was on Christiane Amanpour’s wee Sunday a.m. programme, goddess only knows why.
The name “viking” comes from their war cry as they’d come ashore to rape and pillage. It’s the only known example of a people getting named, down through history, by their victims.
Rahm: Learning last years’ lessons, one issue at a time!
Aloha, Teddy…! Did I ever tell ya that I absolutely despise that ‘In The Navy’ song…! My 20 yrs in the Army has drilled that home…! ;-)
Oh you ratty!
The houses in Norway have grass growing on the roofs, not hatch! But the ships seem alike…
Metamucil
Safe bet openly gay service members will get passed over for promotions but at least in that event they (hopefully) will have some recourse to challenge.
I’d love to see every member that has been booted out on the grounds of sexual orientation allowed to sue for damages.
The military never seems to evaluate the enormous harm done to people whose lives are ruined by exposure of their secret to an employer who is then duty-bound to dismiss them. That seems to me a greater harm than any other.
The Air Force needs to be trimmed of all those crazies. It’s dangerous; they have keys to the planes that carry nukes, and believe in Armageddon. Very bad combination.
While there is some dispute about the source, the best evidence suggests it comes from the Old Norse víkingr, meaning to go on an overseas expedition. Lots of people get named by their enemies. Sioux comes from the Oddawa Nadoüessioüak, or lesser snakes (enemies). The Atakapa Indians of SW Lousiana and SE Texas got their name from the Choctaw word for cannibal.
Did the Muppets do an Army song? I’m happy to use that sometime! ;)
One fellah in Austin, Texas, tried to re-enlist last week but the recruiters were having none of it. I imagine he’ll sue; he certainly should.
Indeed. They need a serious purge.
I was hoping to get a rise out of our resident scholar on the topic by totally making up the “only people known” factoid. Thank you!
OT
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/Religion/post/2010/08/rand-paul-aqua-buddha-baylor-pot/1
This sounds like kidnapping I don’t know if it was reported to school authorities. But at the very least it sounds like Rand is ok with Private Citizens forcing there belief and mocking others beliefs with force.
He just doesn’t want Government to say its ok for 2 people to do what they want as long as it doesn’t harm anyone else if the antigay majority(?) disapproves?
This from the guy who thinks business should have the right not to serve Dark People if they don’t want too.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/16/rand-paul-two-mommies_n_764571.html
Anyway just how did Rand stay in school after that incident a big donation to the school? A favor from his Congressman dad? Normally you get kicked out for that stuff.
OMG! It’s worse than I thought! What are those zeros hiding in the consequences section? It must be truly horrific to represent the numbers with….zeros!
Touche…! I should’ve wrote to the Village People a long time ago…! ;-)
I’ve suspected one of the obstacles to repeal of DADT is the military trying to figure out how to limit their liability.
For some reason I was just reminded of the scene from Stripes.
Recruiter: Now, are either of you homosexuals?
Winger: You mean like flaming?
Recruiter: Well, it’s a standard question we have to ask.
Ziskey: No, we’re not homosexual, but we are willing to learn.
Winger: Yeah . . . Would they send us someplace special?
hear hear!
I’m against discrimination, except for Xtianistas. I’m ok with those that discriminate viciously getting discriminated against. /s
Were they…? From my studies I’d never heard of any cannibalistic tribes in N.A….?
I think they gave him what ever they give right wing radio talk show hosts to stay angry for hours every day sitting in a chair.
Evening, all-
I enlisted in the Air Force 29 years ago. During tech training at Keesler AFB in Biloxi, there was a small but well known contingent of gay airmen in my squadron, and the funny thing was….nobody gave a shit.
BTW, Happy Birthday to LooHoo, if she’s around.
I did like Norway!
So that’s what they’re doing in Norway …
Here’s the video: “ESC World Record – The world’s biggest Flash Mob at The Eurovision Song Contest 2010 in Norway“
Didn’t McCain say he would vote to support Gays in the army if the joint chiefs or something say it was ok?
What happened the Tea Baggers scare McCain to flip flop just like he did on immigrant rights?
One has to wonder if there is any principle or person McCain would not abandon in order to get elected?
My brother and I had a blast in Norway; we took the train alone way above Trondheim, to Bodo (don’t know how to do those slashes through the Os, but both Os had them, as I recall). It was midsummer, sunny 24/7. Weird, but very much fun for a college sophomore and his little brudder (whose birthday it was yesterday, welcome to the 50s!)
None whatsoever, as Bmaz will attest, and has done, in great detail.
Pining for the fjords?
It stands to reason that the most homophobic troops, fearing (illegitimately) for their sexual safety, or their personal safety (because teh Gay won’t cover my six), that they would be reporting non-straight service personal right and left, and their COs would be advancing that information up the chain
But apparently, they’re not.
Ritual cannibalism occurred in a number of tribes in Native North America, but was never very common. Originally POWs burned at the stake among the Iroquois and other northeastern tribes (actually burned with brands while tied by one leg to a large pole) culminated in the village eating the victim. Among the Plains tribes, warriors would sometimes eat a portion of the braver enemies they killed to absorb their soul.
As to the Atakapa, nobody really is sure. Unfortunately, it is quite common to accuse your enemies of all kinds of evil and dastardly deeds and this may just be an example of that.
McCain hugged Bush after Bush’s campaign called his adopted kid his bastard. Yet McCain would not shake hands with Obama after at least some of the Presidential Debates.
They say you can judge a man by his friends and his enemies I’m glad McCain is on the other side.
A habanero enema?
Bmaz has indeed…! But, it wasn’t the Tea Baggers, per se, but, Reichwinger J.D. Hayworth, that slewed McInsane hard right…! ;-)
No, there is nothing that he will not do to get elected.
And they have all these wonderful houses that have grass filled roofs! Bergen was great.
Now, let’s get real. Fielding exclusively hetero forces has been a noble military tradition dating back to the ancient Greek city-states.
Oh, it wasn’t? They DID?
Never mind.
Oy vey!
Well, I think it’s about time I called it a night. Until next time, be excellent to each other, and may the good Lord take a Viking to you.
Just so they don’t try to have flash mobs on their iPhones.
That would cause pain, tears eyes watering but anger I never eat them straight and if I eat to many all I care about is killing the taste. Anger might occur if its a prank but everyday the same prank?
It was beautiful. But the best part was the public bus, with the fantastic driver who drove hairpin turns down out of the fiords to Bergen. He was a pilot!
Niters. Time for me to bow out as well. Thanks to Teddy for LN duty. Splendid evening to all.
Night. I should also toddle off. I have an 8:00 meeting in the morning and need to be alert and coherent. Take care all.
Aqua Budda deserves worship by force Rand thinks but Gays getting government permission to marry legally doesn’t?
Any local pups on the ground in Rand’s state I wonder how the fundies are taking this news?
Nite Rat:) Nite Dick:)
It was strange…not at all what I expected. I kept waiting for some of these guys to get busted (two were roommates of mine-fine people), because everybody knew-but it never happened, not the entire time I was there. Nearly a year.
‘night, Dr.’s, ratfood-I’m off myself as well. The best of all possible tomorrows to you all.
Great post, as usual, Teddy.
Ritualistic tho, not for sustenance like some Melanesian and Southern P.I. tribes… The Hawaiians were actually very bloody and routinely sacrificed subjects, and, the Ali’i would even pluck the hearts out of their foes and eat ‘em for their ‘mana’…
Heh. Well if they did, at least their network could easily handle it unlike our overpriced, under-performing one. :(
Just dropping by to thank you, Teddy, for all that you do and for your ongoing attention to the stupidity of our fearless leader. Keep up the good work.
Thank you!
Splendid post & thread.
Niters all …
It is just amazing how the hits keep on coming from him, isn’t it?
Nite, mz!
Has anyone read that assclown Earl Ofari Hutchinson’s post at Huffington Post tonight? According to EOH, gays do choose their sexual orientation so no apology needed to LGBT’s by Valerie Jarrett. He has his nose so far up BO’s backside I can only conclude he is looking for a job or reflexively feels the need to spew lies ad nauseam lest anyone attack a fellow black American. According to EOH, Obama strongly opposed Prop 8 in California and our real problem is insufficient gratitude for ALL HE HAS DONE and failure to comprehend that the black civil rights movement was special, i.e. gays can’t claim they are pursuing a civil rights struggle like theirs. No, Earl Assclown, we are pursuing one that is far harder. You at least had the churches on your side. We have only ourselves.
Since when did the military ever care what the underlings thought about a “proposed” change in the military code? I thought the brass gave orders and the soldiers obeyed them. I never heard of a questionaire being sent out to determine how people felt about stuff. WTF?
Ace McCain? Technically, he did bring down five aircraft — but he was flying inside them at the time.
You mean you didn’t recall that Truman asked white military men to let their officers know they were not going to share drinking fountains and barracks and showers with colored folks? He pleaded with both the officers and enlisted men for months to give race mixing a chance. And promised their wives that they would protect their white husbands.
nuh huh.
Photos from Copenhagen and Norway.
I’ve taken numerous ‘surveys’ in my day, everything from what do I think of MRE’s, to uniforms, etc…! However, as I’d mentioned to Teddy, awhile ago, my spouse was never asked for her opinion officially from DoD, like they did for this ‘survey’…! 8-(
Nice photos!
UPDATE from the Palm Center:
So the jerks are really too scared to say what they really are going to do. Or are they trying to out people?
(I didn’t read all of the comments)
Very nice!
By the way, has anyone heard a peep from that person who used to be at HRC that was preening last summer about how she put together this oh-so-wonderful DADT compromise that has been such a colossal failure? What was her name? Funny how she isn’t talking much these days. And I bet Pelosi rues the day she ever agreed to let the WH grab the issue back at the last minute when it looked like Patrick Murphy’s bill was going to pass that REALLY repealed DADT. Now she is in the shitter, too, with all the other Dims who let themselves get rolled by Obama again. Like on HCR.
Basically, the Brass… Field Grades and above are too conditioned to embrace the change… Many of the mid-career officers couldn’t care less, it truly is a matter of time… Hopefully, sooner, rather than later…! 8-(
I recall lauding Nancy at the time for trumpeting the eventual dissolution of DADT, thinking that saying anything at all without certainty was stupid… so why do it if she didn’t have that certainty?
Oops.
Actually, Rush is like that because they’re withholding his Oxycontin until the show is done.
She got rolled.
Sometimes I don’t think Nancy is as smart as I would like to believe. I lived in SF until last year and called her office numerous times. Begged her to nix the bankster bailout because –among other things–there were no mechanisms to follow the money and track its use. Her staff said that I need not worry–the TARP process had lots of safeguards. Well, she was either lying or stupid. But how come I got it right with no special knowledge or access to the negotiations? Same thing on the public option.
CTuttle is upstairs!
Late, Late Night FDL: Burning Hell
That’s how he got that rather, um, ironic nickname in the Navy.
He hates it.
I don’t know if she got rolled or was willfully obtuse. But more to the point, I’m not sure which of the two I would be more comfortable with.
Thank you!
That is, um, quite gallant of EOH.
Outstanding post Teddy. Ridiculing Gates with the “Enormous consequences” and adding the muppet video is most creative. They should include it on the site.
Well, they hadn’t much chance, after the European Court of Human Rights ruled in 1999 that their ban on gays in the military violated the Convention on Human Rights.
The judiciary played an important part in Europe too.
Yeah. What a douchebag.
Weren’t every one of these same arguments made when Truman desegregated the armed forces? But he did, and the world didn’t end.